A Brief Answer, Text (2 of 3)

A Brief Answer · Text (2 of 3)

p. 56How little cause hee hath to cō plaine of those few parentheses that I had added.13 Concerning the cause that you hauehave in hand the matter that you chiefly charge me withall, is, partly for that I hauehave put thereto somewhat of mine owne: but especially for that I hauehave taken so much out of yours. That which I put to … mine owne, was so little in it selfe, and so indifferently and sparingly done, that as you hauehave taken it nothing so greeuously as the other: so in much you needed to hauehave found no fault at all. And yet notwithstanding I will not denie, but that in this point you had the aduantage against mee, if there were anie thing materiall therein: because that the mention thereof was omitted in my pr…face to the Reader, and the additions themselues (in som few places) no better distinguished. But now that your selfe hauehave made the search, let vsus see what it is that thereby you hauehave found. The places that your selfe hauehave gotten, and wherein you find your selfe most greeued in this kind, are in al but three. p. 57and those of no speciall importance, but that well they might hauehave beene omitted by me, sauing onlie that thereby you might better perceiue howe little cause you had to bee offended in this also. First you charge mee, that whereas you had set downe, that our Sauiour beeing demaunded by a certaine Prince, how he might be saued, would giuegive him none other hope, but onelyonly by keeping the Commandements, saying; If thou wilt enter into life keep the Commandements; there doo I helpe the matter with a parenthesis, saying, he would giuegive him none other hope (so long as he sought saluation by his works) but keepe the Commandements. The next is, that whereas you alledged out of Saint Paul, and out of the Reuelations, that men shall be crowned in heauen according to their fight in his life: I bodged in (as you say) this parenthesis (in some good measure) thereby to limit the Holy Ghost in his meaning. The third, and last is, that whereas you alledged plainly the words of Scripture, No man knoweth whether he be woorthie of louelove or hatred in Gods sight: I added this parenthesis (by outward thinges.) These are all the places that you charge me withall: I likewise do willingly acknowledge that for the first, & last, it is true; but as touching the second, I say that there you hauehave somewhat depraued my wordes, from the sense that I had giuē them. And now as touching my dooings herein, it was meet, that seeing you labour so much to establish your owne righteousnes as to make a way to saluation thereby; and to keepe men alwaies in doubt of the fauour of God p. 58towardes them, so to make your owne wares more saleable to all (and to that end peruerted these places of Scripture, the better to shrowd those naughtie errours, but gainefull …to you, vnderunder the cloake and shewe of truth) I on the other side, should bee as carefull, that no … tooke occasion of error by either of them. Which how could I, on your behalfe, more easily hauehave doone, than by giuing so briefe an interpretation vppon those places? especially, when as my interpretation is such, as is not mine, but borrowed of others greater than I (as your selfe doeth, or may knowe) and verie agreeable vntounto the truth of the places themselues. But as touching this place of Ecclesiastes (which also you hauehave not rightlie quoted) whereas it pleaseth you to say, that you plainely alledged the woordes of that place, as plainely as you hauehave doone it, yet notwithstanding, if you will take the paines to consider of your dooinges againe, you may plainely perceiue, first that you hauehave added three woordes in the ende, more than the text it selfe dooth yeelde, by anie translation whatsoeuer, (though yet notwithstanding it stand well ynough with the sense of the place) then also, these woordes, hee bee woorthie (whereon the chiefe strength of your sense consisteth) are not found in the Hebrew it selfe, nor in Saint Ierome, when of set purpose hee interpreteth the place; although I denie not, but that in your common vulgar translation (which gladlie p. 59you would father vppon him) it bee there (for this point) as corruptly interpreted, as it is heere alledged by you. So likewise, more specially to consider of that other place of yours, where you say that I bodged in that parenthesis (in some good measure) if you marke the place better, you shall finde, that I did not adde these woordes vntounto the affirmatiue, as you hauehave framed them (to your better aduauntage) which indeed had beene more obscurely spoken: and that you hauehave corruptly cited both my woordes; and yours also. For you saide before, that none should bee crowned there (in the life to come) but according to the measure of his fight in … and thereunto cited those places of Scripture, which yeeld no such matter vntounto you, but onelyonly that such as striue heere, shall ouercome, and bee crowned there; without anie apportioning of it according to their measure of striuing, as you had framed it. Whereas therefore you had further gone than those places did warrant, and would gladly abuse that also to the mainteinance of some of your errours; not eating in the meane season howe you tormented a weake conscience: which way could I in fewer wordes, and with lesse alteration of those that you had giuen mee, both hauehave answered those places you cited, and prouided for the broken heart against such discomfortable doctrine, as you would gladlie hauehave forced vppon it out of the same? Weigh then the p. 60matter a little better, and you shall see the bodging that you speake of, to be so bound with the ba… bias that you put on it, that needes it must holde the contrarie course, to that which at first you meant vntounto it.

Of those follies and errors of his that I left out.14 But to come to those things that I hauehave taken out of yours, (which is the greatest cause of your griefe against me) those I grant are verie … nie, and such as cannot bee particularly handle…ly but that needes it must grow to a large discourses. But to take a neerer course, what one thing at all hauehave I stroken out of yours (of this kind that now you charge mee with) but onelyonly that which … manifest popery; or at leastwise tended thereunto, in such sort as you had placed it? Whereas therefore such vanities of yours are already (in these daies of the Gospell) so manifestly discouered, and manie of our profession hauehave in their writings declared the same, such as are not answered by you as yet, nor euer can bee (as nowe it … plainly appeere, by such weake endeuours as you hauehave made, in whatsoeuer you hauehave taken in h…) what reason was there, to leaue so grosse corruptions therein: especially when those are matters of doctrine; and this booke of yours (if so I may call it) professeth no other, but only to labour amendment of life? Must it needs be so greeuous to you that of these things that were of diuers argumēts, we might not take to our selues the one, but that needs we must take the other also? Need we your heathenish fable of Purgatorie,Purgatorie. to perswade vntounto p. 61good life? Are not those infinite, and altogither vndeserued fauours of God the Father in Iesus Christ, sufficient to mooue those that are alreadie come in, to the knowledge, and feare, and louelove of him, and the torments of hell (which are no fable but … indeed) sufficient to bring into the feare of him, those that are without as yet? Or, if those cannot, can your fained Purgatorie doo it? May we in no wise thinke it sufficient to confesse our sins vntounto God,Auriculat confession. and that with a true and godly sorrow, but that needs wee must reckon vp all to one of you (that so busily prie into all mens dooinges, and into the secret intents of alll for the better accomplishment of your owne vnclean, and naughtie endeuours) and bee content to vndergo, what you shall thinke good to lay vponupon vsus? When wee cleerely holde, that wherein wee hauehave offended our neighbour, wee are, in that case, to acknowledge our faultes vntounto him, and to reconcile our selues againe: must wee yet hauehave anie other than God, to whome of necessitie we are further to resort, and to make our confession vntounto? And as for your Satisfaction,Satisfactiō. when as wee make no question at all, but that we are euer to satisfie to our neighbours, for such hurts or wrongs as we hauehave doone vntounto them; and otherwise also do readily graunt, that the more we hauehave liued in sin, the more carefull should we be to imploy the rest of our time in the feare and seruice of God: is there no remedie but that needes we must goe so farre with you, as to make that slender account of sinne, that, when p. 62one way wee hauehave sinned; wee may an other … make amends into God for the same?Moonks. Is it how sufficient for vsus to hauehave in reuerence those … men of old, that either to be safe from persecutiō, or to auoid the generall corruption of the world, withdrew themselues aside to som godly exercise amōg themselues; & those that since in any other… age hauehave done the like: but that needes we must hauehave in the like estimation those belly gods of yours, that of purpose forsooke al honest labor; … inioy their ease, & the pleasures of sin without controlment? Or are you able to name any thing at al, wherein those late Moonks of yours, were … to those godly fathers before, vnderunder whose name you would so gladly cloake the most filthie pollution of these? Virginity & chastitie,Virginitie. such as is … indeed, we acknowledge to be the good giftes of God, & a part of that seruice; that, in their kind… very acceptable & welcom: chastitie alwaies, & of all sorts whatsoeuer, virginitie also in such as … the gift, & are called vntounto it. And may not this lie inough for vsus, vnles we make it a ni…r with you… both to iustle marriage clean but of credit for the holier sort… & to couer th…se …oul pollutiōs, which your forced forbearing of we … to tel you. As for wilfull pouertie,Wilful pouertie. what talke you of it. Who knoweth not, that, … which is wilfull pouertie with you, is so full & peace … al the welth, & pleasure of the world the sides … not found (where these houses stand as the, … wont) in any other estate or sort of … uer? p. 63And why should you take it so ill, that we accent not of such Apparitions as you speak of?Apparitiōs. As if we knew not, both that we hauehave whatsoeuer we need, in the written woorde, & that you hauehave bewraied, aswel your infidelity, in that you hauehave thē in such estimation; as your folly in crediting of thē. As for your chastising of the body,Chastising of the body sackcloth, hairecloth, & lying on the ground, first you neede not be so much offended with me, for leauing thē somtimes out of your booke, when as your selues do altogither leaue them out of the whole course of your life & doings. But delicate wantons must needs be talking of such great matters: if not of a certain humor they hauehave, so to content and flatter themselues; yet (at the least) to make others beleue that they hauehave such thinges in some admiration. But seeing they are allowed to you when you do not abuse them, may you iustly complain, if they he withdrawn from you, when you wrest them to some abuse? When you put holines it self in those things, that are but bodily exercise only, or when you would hauehave such things to be of force to doo away sin: is it not time looke to your fingers, & to take heede that we leaue not so perilous weapons in their hands, that either cannot tel how to vse them, or are disposed therwith, to hurt themselues or others? When you bring them in, not as things that are godly in thēselues, but as excercises tending to it nor allow thē the power of satisfiing for your former sinnes, are you able to name any place where they are put out? So likewise, who p. 64is there but wil acknowledge,Watching, weeping, abstinence, fasting. that watching, weeping, abstinence, and fasting, beeing rightly vsed, are verie good exercises of true godlines? that is, when our watching is, to bee aduised of our estate in the way of godlines: our weeping on the behalfe of our sins, or exile heere in this mortall life: our abstinence, to forbeare such thinges as may hinder our seruice to God: and our fasting either a speciall endeuour, to doo some peece of seruice to God; or a set mourning, either for sin, or other calamity. In this sense if you commend them, who is it that findeth fault with you? but if you set thē to doo away sinne, and attribute that vertue vntounto them, or any otherwise abuse them to your owne fancie, was it not meet that they should be deliuered from such ill dealing?Merit. Your workes of merite hire, labouring for reward, gaining of heauen, and the facilitie that you suppose therein, doo … remaine: which also you complaine to bee strooken out. So are they indeed. For what reason was there, to let them stande? Is it not inough for you to hauehave heauen offered vntounto you, but that you must hauehave it by your owne purchase also? Or being your selfe so vainely perswaded of the righteousnes that is in man, must we needs let the same stand, to the dishonour of God, and ouerthrow of others? If needs you will thinke so well of your selues, & of your owne three-halfepeny works, yet there let it die, and go no further: let not others be troubled with it, nor hauehave the infection of so dangerous, & vaine an opinion brought before them. p. 65Works are good, when they are doone for the seruice of God; to glorifie him, or to benefit others: but if you doo them, to gaine heauen, you hauehave made them odious to God; and your selfe is an hireling also.

15 Those that varie from the nature of these others going before,Of my Annotations. and take vntounto them an other course (not charging me now, with corrupting, falsifiyng, and such like, but onelyonly with want of wit, discretion, or grace) are such as you gather out of my Annotations: of which you say, some are fond; others absurd; and a third sort wicked. Howbeit as fond as I am, yet thus much hauehave I marked withall, that althogh you do reply to certaine of them, where you thinke that they hauehave some matter for you: yet on the other side, where you are able to say nothing against that which I hauehave noted, (which we may find in manie of them) you do not there acknowledge your ouersight, but only passe it ouer with silence, and still holde on your wonted course: loath to amend it, though you see that you cannot defend it. But to consider of those wherein you thinke that you hauehave the aduantage, and first as touching those that are fond, Of those that he calleth fond.whereas I hauehave giuen a note of a point, wherin Philosophers were long since deceiued,A note of Philosophers, taken to himselfe and his fellowes. and out of which certaine of our deuines had taken occasion of errour also: you crie out a-maine, that I charge you and your fellowes to hold that errour. Whereas notwithstanding I neuer meant, neither you, nor your fellowes neither, and my words are cleere inough p. 66in themselues: because I spake of Philosophers, and not of you; and of the diuines of a time past, and not of the time that now is present. And seeing you cannot but know, as I do take it (propter summam & doctoris authoritatem & vrbis) but that most of the ancient Philosophers do holde, that anima sequitur temperaturam corporis, and that not onelyonly diuers of our Phisitians in times past, that stucke so much to natural reason doubted of the soules immortalitie, but certain of our diuines also, that were woont to take their light so much from Philosophie, were somwhat likewise deceiued hereby: how commeth it to passe, that none of these considerations, nor altogither could help you to vnderstand, that I meant neither you, nor your fellows? For notwithstanding these considerations, and the euidencie of the place it selfe (see now how far the desire of contentiō hath blinded your eies) & that it could not with any indifferencie, be wrested to this supposed sense of yours: yet as though the matter were cleere, & could not be otherwise, you therupon take it maruelous hotly, & call it patching, cobling, lying, & fondnes. But the lesse that you finde any such thing, in that which is there set down by me; the more must it rest on that which thereon is so vnaduisedly gathered by you: and considering how wide you were in this matter, what letteth now, but that ye might well take home again some of those your toyish speeches, aduising your self a litle better, who now it is that hath affirmed, that which is neither so, nor so, & p. 67whether it bee you or I, that is that good man, that vnderstandeth not what he dooth say, or his aduerse-part doth hold, albeit (if yee beleeue him) he hath studied the schoolmen. And but that you are possessed alredy with so inordinate affectiōs, as many waies you shew your selfe to bee, you could neuer so far mistake this as you did; vnles you hauehave som priuy gal in your profession that belike was a litle rubd therby. As in this you hauehave mistakē me, so bicause in another place you hauehave mistooke your self, seing no reason in the death of Christ, and I tooke you with it, alledging there was great reason in it that Christ should die:Whether there be any reason or not why Christ should die, if we shuld be saued. here you can in no wise take it in another sense, but that I would make the mystery of our redemption, no matter of faith, but onlie of reason. So that whereas before by declaring that you saw no reason in it, you made it knowne, that you litle vnderstood the mystery of our saluation in him (& so cōsequently could minister but cold cōfort to others for that matter in time of need:) so, by this your interpretation of my admonition theron, you shew your self not desirous to learn any better; nor in good part to take it, being offered

16 Then concerning those that you cal absurd, Of those that he calleth absurdfirst you come to my note of the knowledge that we shal hauehave one of another,Of the maner of our knowledge one of another in the world to come. after our resurrectiō in the kingdome of God, which you holde to bee such, as shal cōsist of that earthly knowledge that we now hauehave in this life; and altogither omitting the reasons that I alledged, you content your selfe with the ods of the persōs that you wold seem to p. 68hauehave conceiued, and there you rest. Howbeit you were to hauehave knowne, both that Cyprian in that his sermon by occasion of the pestilence that then so raged in those partes, endeuoring himselfe to imbolden the people to bee willing to die if God should cal them, might verie wel vtter (in the way of perswasion) many thinges, whereon it were not good to build any generall doctrine: and that all the opinions of the learned, either of him or anie other, are not alwaies to be receiued. Then also, that you would seeme to set so much by Cyprian, it is no more but your wonted vanitie: as, vppon disdaine, you do in like sort make light of others. You would gladly shrowd your selues vnderunder the credit, and reuerend estimation of the godlie Fathers: but in truth you esteeme of none of them all, but so farre as you hope to wrest them to your owne naughtie purpose. So that although Cyprian were indeed as fully on your side, as you face vsus out that he is: yet notwithstanding there is no iust cause for you to make it so cleere a matter, as that there may be no question of it.The place of Cyprian abused. But nowe in truth, there is no such matter as you pretend. For whereas you did speake of our naturall parentes, kinsfolke, and freendes (as by the course of your words appeered before; and because that now in that respect you hauehave reiected my Annotation thereon, which otherwise graunted the selfe-same matter, as we are members of one bodie; and, besides these, by that wise note of yours, which you hauehave set in the margent of the booke it selfe) it is p. 69most certaine and verie plaine, that no man can gather, that S. Cyprian ment it of those, but rather that he meant it onelyonly of such, as before I had allowed vntounto you in that annotation. And there he vseth an argument of the desire that all men commonly hauehave, when they are abroad in other countries, to returne home againe to see their frendes. Herevpon he inferreth as followeth. Patriam nostram paradisum computamus: parentes nostros patriarchas habere iam coepimus: quid non properamus & currimus, vt patriam nostram videre, & parentes salutare possimus. Magnus illic nos chaerorum numerus expectat, parentum, fratrum, filiorum, frequens nos & & copiosa turba desiderat, &c. that is, wee account that paradise is our countrie; we hauehave now begun to hauehave the Patriarks to be our Fathers: why doo we not make hast and run, that we may be able to see our country, and salute or parents? A great number of frends do there await vsus, of parents, of brethren, of children, a great and mightie companie doth (there) desire vsus, &c. Wherby we may see, that whereas it is the common nature of all, to couer and desire to be with their frends, hee dooth giuegive them to vnderstand, that there they hauehave a great number of frends, of al sorts, that wil be glad of their comming. Insomuch that howsoeuer a mans desire is, either to his father, or to his brother, or to his sonne, or howsoeuer els (as all, we knowe are not alike delighted with euerie one; but one with his parents, another with his brethren, a third with his children, and so forth with the rest) p. 70there shall he hauehave in that holy and blessed company his own desires fully satisfied, and be sure to find (to his full contentation) either parentes, or brethren, or children, or wife, or neighbor, or frend or whomsoeuer els the linke of Christian vnitie and louelove can make delightfull or deare vntounto vsus. That this is the sense of the place (and not that, which you hauehave so grossely gathered) it app…eereth in this, both for that he alludeth to those that are in forraine countries, and desirous to see their owne country and naturall frendes (and so consequently, ariseth from the consideration of these, & returneth not vntounto them againe, but to others) and because that himselfe setteth downe, who are those parents that he meaneth, that is, the Patriarks, or holie Fathers, and not as you did grossely suppose, our naturall parents. And the better to confirme, that hee meant not anie such earthlie knowledge to remaine, within almost as much of the beginning, as this place of yours was towards the ending, hee plainly saith, that, when wee do: part hence thither, terrenis coelestia, & magna paruis & caducis aeterna fuccedunt: that is, that vntounto earthlie things do heauenly succeed; and that in place of small things, and brittle, we shall there enioy (such, as are both great and aeternall… Wheras therefore, the knowledge of father, mother, wife, or children, and such like heere in this life such I meane, as you did speake of) is but earthly, small, and brittle, therefore we may see that this holie Father meant not, that such knowledge p. 71as this, should hauehave such a place in the kingdome of God, or with those immeasurable and vnspea…le ioies, that there the Saints of God should inioy. Heerein may your selfe sufficiently perceiue at the least, you hauehave made it plain vntounto others) how vntruly you deale with the Fathers that you alledge: and vponupon how sure a groundworke they stand; that thinke they may safely beleeue you, in these your vaine brags of the Fathers. And as for your ten couple of Bunnies, that, as you gibe, weigh not so much in affaires of the soule, as one Cyprian, first you see that Cyprian now, vnderunder whom you would faine hauehave shrowded your follie, hath so …at left you, that if you knew where to get ten couple of Cyprians mo, you would not sticke (as now it seemeth) to falsifie all, to make good your answere vntounto this and halfe couple of Bunnies, that you hauehave chosen to wrangle withall: then also, as Cyprian here doth plainly refuse to be so far abused by you, so I trust, that as for this one couple of Bunnies (of whom it seemeth you take occasion to make your couples) by the goodnes of God we shalbe … (the weaker of vsus) in this cause to with … the worst you can do, & so to discouer your shift… withall, that fewer shalbe deceiued by you. Secondly, cōming to the rule of S. August.S. Augustines rule. which you would gladly that men shuld hauehave thoght to … bene such a thing, as since was taken vp by your vnclean cloisterers, you are ther offēded with …, first for that I say that it was …i… a more carefull … in the way of godlines: then, for that I p. 72added further (as you say) that it was but such as we are all bound vntounto. Against which you alledge S. Augustine himselfe and Possidonius,Augustine & Possidonius both abused togither. as though they tolde vsus of other matters, such as I denied … you in my Annotation: and you set so good a sa… on the matter, that such as knowe not your qualities,What Saint Augustines rule was generally. may easily be deceiued with you. But what do you find in either of them, but (as before I said) that which tendeth but onelyonly to a more carefull endeuour in the way of godlines; and nothing at all helpeth to countenance the superstition or loosenes of those orders of yours? You called for them, and lo they are come: but what can you get them to say for you, in that which nowe wee hauehave in hand? You made as though they were altogither yours, and that so fully as might be wished… but when they are come, they hauehave nothing at all to say for you, nor for any of those your orders.What it was more specially as touching wiuing. But whereas in the latter of those my Annotations I said, that we are all bound to that same that there I speake of, by occasion of that word bound, you busily seeke to him in some poore aduauntage vntounto your selfe: that is, that, especially as touching wiuing … you thinke that Saint Augustines rule conteineth somewhat more, than I and my fellowes at this day do practise. It is not to bee denied, but that nowe … his conuersion he gaue ouer the desire of marriage and would not hauehave women cohabit with him.Good reason why S. Augustine should refuse to cohabite with women, & yet that to be no rule vntounto others that are not in the like case with him. But when as he had liued so loosely before, and kept a concubine, onelyonly for his pleasure, without regard of procreation, could such inordinate affections p. 73of his, hauehave any place in sound conuersion? And when hee had so large experience of his former infirmitie, was it not wisedome for him, now to take heed of their companie also: or when hee had falne before, might hee not easily hauehave growne into suspition againe, vnlesse he had vsed some such preuention? Could not he that desired no children (and therefore desired not the vse of a woman, but onelyonly to content his inordinate lust) thinke marriage to bee no needfull estate for him: but that such as ioy in that blessing of God must needs abandon marriage also, and hauehave it thought vnseemly for them? Or if hee, vppon his owne speciall disposition (by course of nature) found it needfull for himselfe to liue apart from them, did he therefore prescribe the self same rule to all others besides, or must it be as needfull for others as (in that case) it was for him? Or was this anie more, than (as the case then stood with him) a more carefull endeuor in the way of godlines (as before I said) sauing that he did more specially frame it to his own proper vse? But now to come to your selues,Forgetting how farre themselues are polluted with all vncleanes, hee condemneth lawful marriage in vsus. could you so far forget howe abhominably you defiled your selues and others, for want of marriage (which wilfully, and with great reproch you abandoned from you) that now you can hauehave the face to find any fault with vsus for lawfull marriage? Where such vnshamefastnes is so readilie found, it auaileth little there to bestow any sound aduise. But what cause had you so to depraue that latter annotatiou of mine (as you had placed it?)My Annotation depraued. p. 74Did I say, as you hauehave made me to say, that Saint Augustines rule was but such as wee all are bound vntounto? I said it not: but comparing Saint Augustines conuersion, with that other of Anthomes before, I saide that it might well bee doubted, whether Saint Anthonie had on that place sufficient ground-worke of those his dooings, vnlesse he had some speciall motion besides: but that it was otherwise with Saint Augustine, whose conuersion was not but to such things as wee all are bound vntounto, & vponupon such a place as speaketh to all. So it is verie cleere, that I spake of his conuersion generally, as he was become a Christian, and not of his Rule, as you ouer-ruled my wordes at your pleasure. If you thinke indeede, that you hauehave such aduantage as you praetend, what need you then so eagerlie to follow vppon so pettite helps as these? Lastly,Of the assurāce that we hauehave in God. you are againe offended that I will not suffer you quietly to runne away with that gainefull point of your doctrine, the vncontaintie of the fauour of God towardes vsus: and because you hauehave nothing else to saie agaynst that which I alledged out of the Apostle, therefore both you carpe at it by the poore helpe of an aequiuocation, and whereas I spake but of that assurance, that the faithfull may … of themselues, you make faire towardes it, to inlarge my woordes to a further meaning, as though I had meant, that they might hauehave bene iudges of others also: I long to see, when you will take anie one thing in hande, wherein you p. 75will speake any thing at all to the purpose, and yet seeke no other aduauntage; than the place it selfe will giuegive you.

17. So these you say are fond, and absurd: but these are nothing to those that follow; for they are wicked. Of those that he calleth wickedIll halting beliked before a criple. But now let vsus see, what that wickednes is, that these Annotations are charged withall. This you lay foorth by these three places: the first, about the conuersion of Saint Anthonie; the next, about the conuersion of Saint Augustine; the third, about the silence of the blessed Virgin, whē Christ in her hearing; was so much blasphemed. In the conuersion of Saint Anthonie you charge mee with this,The conuersion of S. Anthony that whereas hee, hearing the sentence of the Gospell, Goe, and sell all that thou hast, &c. and taking it as spoken vntounto him in particular, therevpon went, and solde all that hee had, and gaue it away to the poore: I thereupon noted, that it might well bee doubted, whether hee had in that place sufficient ground-woorke for those his dooings, vnlesse hee had some (other, say you) speciall motion besides. This is one of those great pointes of wickednes that you charge me withall; and this note you say, is scornefull and irreligious. Answere me therefore, is that sentence, Go and sell all that thou hast, and giuegive to the poore, &c. spoken in differēth to all, or not: or, which is the same, are al Christians boūd therby, to go & sel al that they hauehave; and to giuegive it to the poore? If you say they are, th… do you indeed say somwhat to the defence p. 76of this your wrangling censure: but then on the other side you run your selfe so farre on the shore, that you will neuer be able to recouer it againe. If you graunt that all are not, and that men may bee good Christians, though they sell not al that they hauehave, and giuegive it away: then are you driuen (will you, nill you) to allowe of mine Annotation thereon, though now in a toy you hauehave cast it off with great reproch. In the conuersion of S. Augustine,The conuersion of S. Augustine. your griefe against me is, for that when you did so much commend the manner of his conuersion, without exception of anie thing at all thereunto apperteining, I, considering that certaine thinges therein might giuegive ouer much credite to certaine distempered humours of flesh and blood (as, for a man to leaue his function and calling belonging to the affaires of this life, and to betake himself, as they say, to continuall prayer, and contemplation those also that are married, thereupon to part the one from the other, and that sometimes without consent of the other part first had, which are to be seene in the storie of a couple, of whome he maketh mention in the eight booke of his Confessions, and sixt chapter) gaue this note on it, that some pointes of the storie are large are such, as that a man may as wel doubt the readines of Sathan to illude and deceiue: as behold to our comfort the goodnes of God in his conuersion. And this you say I did, to bring in quaestion that excellent mans conuersion. But why then hauehave you so much gelded my note,My Annotation dismembred. as you did? Why hauehave you so cleane left out the latter p. 77part of it, which would verie cleerely hauehave discharged me of that suspition, when as I saide that we might behold to our comfort, the goodnes of God in his conuersion? You saw wel inough what it was that I bent my stile against. Which because you were not able with anie credite to defend, and yet were desirous to make your selfe a way to finde some fault, therefore both you turned it an other way, and purposely left out those wordes of mine that made against you. And yet (forsooth) needes must you hauehave this note of mine to bee most ridiculous, and yet blasphemous. About the B. Virgin you storme exceedingly,The silence of the blessed Virgin. as though you went about to make the world beleeue, that she had no frends on earth, but onelyonly your selues. And what is the matter wherein I hauehave so much offended? That which I said, did I restraine vntounto the blessed Virgin alone: or, to her & to those other women, that there I spake of? Had not your selfe, or your former Author, first set downe (by occasion of the like discourse out of Augustine) that the confession of the thiefe was therein more welcome, because that Christ was not acknowledged of other at that instant? Did not your selfe, or your former Author, therevpon set downe, first in this place, that all the world forsooke Christ, and euen the Apostles themselues, either doubted or lost the faith of his Godhead: and in the next section following, out of Augustine, that therein the perfection of the iust did stagger? When you had thus laid downe their sin in grosse: might not I shewe the particulars? p. 78But I noted the B. Virgin (but other godly wom… withal) to be of that company. I did so indeed, and why not? Doth it not make the reason (you bring) so much the stronger? Doth it not follow, that the more he was forsaken, the more welcome must be the theeues confession? when you had gathered to that accoūt al the world, & the Apostles themselues; do you take it so ill, that I should glean after you, & bring in those fewe? Or would you hauehave vsus to thinke, that already you hauehave bestowed all your goodwil so fully vpō the B. Virgin, that you hauehave left none at all for the Apostles, for those godlie women, nor for al the world besides? You may tell vsus so, if you list, but you can neuer make any beleeue you. Would you plainely tell vsus, what commandements were broken by those others, your selfe should ease mee in the same, which so hotely you lay to my charge. But that recoūting the sins of the faithful (not to their dishonor; but to Gods glory, & our edifieng) should be to bring them as a pray into the clawes of the deuil, when as notwithstanding the speech is not but of those, that without question are sound beleeuers, is such a properdish of diuinitie, as that it is pittie, but that you Iesuites should euer keepe it in, to your selues, and neuer drawe foorth anie part thereof vntounto others. Wee knowe that our Iesus is the Sauiour of none, but of sinners onelyonly. But if I, for so easie and needfull recounting of some few sinnes of certaine of the faithfull, deserue such a fee at his handes that you speake of, what may we thinke p. 79that hee will holde such a Proctor as your selfe worthie of, that so smoothly can lull men asleepe in opinion of their owne so absolute cleannes: to so manifest a contradiction of the worde of God; and to the ouerthrowing of soules vntounto perdition? But the matter that galleth you, is this-Seeing that it is in so fresh remembrance with you, how fowlie and shamefully with much adoo at length you obtained, to hauehave it set downe for a tolerable opinion, and not to be gainsayed by anie, that the Virgin Marie was altogither without sinne, you are now so very loth to heare of any thing that may call it in quaestion, as that (the rather to proppe vp your great idolatrie to her committed) you would hauehave all accounted as fond, that are not therein as haereticall and blasphemous as you. But the lesse maruell it is that you deale so with mee, when as some of you hauehave not bene ashamed in much like sort to deale with Saint Ierome himselfe in that very matter that now is betwixt vsus. For whereas hee (in his answere to the eight question of Algasia) by occasion had plainely set downe, that there was none without sinne, but Christ alone (and yet with great circumspection, that he did not thereby impeach the dignitie of anie of the godlie, of which he reckoneth Iob, Zacharie, and Elizabeth) some of you notwithstanding in the ende of that his Treatise hauehave added this Antidotus (in his works printed at Paris, anno 1534.) that solum Christum eximit a peccato, qu…niam de his nondum definer at Ecclesia: p. 80that Saint Ierome (therefore) exempted Christ onelyonly from sin, because the Church had not yet determined those matters. If therefore in this matter you deale so with him, I may take it so much the better, that therein you so deale with mee. Neuertheles when as you make such a woonder at it, and count it to be so absurd a matter, and so impossible to bee declared, you declare your selfe to be either maruellous ignorant in the sense & meaning of the commandements; or els to beare so ill an heart to the truth it selfe, that you will not acknowledge it, when you see it. Otherwise howe could you but see, and acknowledge withall, that to suffer Christ so to be reproched, and in the mean season (thogh it were but for feare) to say nothing in his defence must needes be a breach of the first Commandement as hee was God, and had not his honour by them giuen vntounto him: of the fift, as hee was their Messias, their Annointed Priest, Prophet & King, and yet was not so auouched by them: of the sixt, as this their silence was, or might bee offensiue to others (offenses being spirituall murther:) and of the ninth, though hee were not but a man, in that he had not his good name by them defended? But in the meane season you hauehave made this point cleere, that they are maruellous happie men that hauehave you for their teachers: that either do not vnderstand the principles of Religion; or cannot in anie wise bee content to confesse an open truth, when as you see that it doth reprooue your wonted errors. As for the wordes of contempt and reproch, p. 81that here you do interlace, and in your Annotation of the place it selfe, that heerein I am ridiculous, and blasphemous, and that woorthie praier of yours, God helpe the fond man, I doubt that I may not be so bolde as to take them from you, because they are the chiefest weight of all that you bring for that matter: at least for my part for this present time, I do returne them to your selfe again from whence they came, vntill you shall bring others more worthie some answere.

18 But that vponupon the praemises you take on so in the ende,Of his vain and friuolous illation, vponupon the premises. that we hauehave no honest meaning, no fidelitie, no conscience, no respect of God or man, that deale in this order: that it is not hard, to found any new religion, or to defend it, nor to auouch what follie or falshood soeuer by this manner of proceeding: that if we had abilitie to our wil, our consciences would permit vsus to make, I wote not what alteration, subuersion, and metamorphosis in all matters of antiquitie: that if wee had to our selues the setting foorth of the holie Fathers and Doctors works, wee would lop them, and circumcise them, and set them foorth in their ierkins, yea, bare hose and doublets: and that, if wee had the keeping of all antiquities, fathers, councels, and scriptures alone to our selues, as you had, we wold make them currant and absolute for our profession, and frame them to speake euen as Iohn Caluin speaketh in all matters of controuersie, or rather, as that good man for the time would hauehave them speake, vntounto whose hands the last edition of p. 82such works should bee committed: all this is, so much as concerneth vsus, but a vain & causles out-crie; and, so much as concerneth you, a false, and a foolish Tesuiticall out facing of that which you know to be nothing so. For what cause hauehave I giuen you, either in this sort to charge me; or (for my sake) so impotently to run vpō others, & to poure forth vponupon them so plentifully, what the distemperature of your vnquiet braine can imagine, or the volubilitie of your slanderous tong can vtter… HaueHave you herein any cause to complaine, that we hauehave no honest meaning, no fidelitie, no conscience, no regard of God or man? Are not these very greeuous accusations? And must it of necessitie follow, that either you hauehave in this dealing of mine, some special cause so far to complain: or els, that you make no conscience at all, falsly to accuse; and to beare … shew as though you had much matter against vsus, wherein notwithstanding you knowe you hauehave none? And so, because it is euidently seene, that heerein you hauehave no such cause to complaine, as you would seem by such an out-crie to hauehave (eu… in the iudgement of your owne adhaerents) therefore hauehave you now euen in this onelyonly (though we had no other proofe at all against you, as indeede we hauehave very much) sufficiently declared, both that such complaintes of yours doo not euer import any fault in vsus: and that this heauie charge of yours, of no honest meaning, no fidelitie, no conscience, no regard of God or man, finding no place to light vponupon vsus, returneth home to your selfe againe, p. 83as to the proper owner of it.

19 To say somewhat particularly,How little cause was giuen by me that so he should charge vsus. both of my faultines in this matter, & especially of the innocencie that you claim to your selues, hauehave I herein so much as attempted, to make the booke, that I did publish to seeme to be yours, in such sorte as I had published the same? Did I not both in the Title briefly, and in the Praeface more at large plainly praemonish and acknowledge, what I had doone for that matter? Did I not perswade my selfe, thinke you, that if therein I had left you anie aduantage against me, you wold hauehave bene readie to take hold of it: & hauehave not your selfe verified that coniecture of mine, that so mightily storme for nothing at all? And though I had not regarded you, yet for mine own credits sake, I might in no wise hauehave set it forth in such sort as I did, and withal beare the world in hande, that so it was set out by you. For who would hauehave beleeued, that one of the adhaerents of the Church of Rome, a wilful exile from his country for that forrain pre…ates sake, and of (blinde zeale, or vaine hope, or for impunitie) a professed Frier (as it is thought) would euer publish anie such booke so litle infected with their owne vnsauerie opinions? All men know wel inough in what maner you speake, and what ye write: nothing at al, when you are in your proper vaine, but contentious brablings, or traiterous libels, or, when you come foorth vnderunder a vi…ard, borrowing for a purpose the shewe of some godlines, to make it a packe-horse to carrie foorth p. 84your poperie by it. If I therefore should hauehave giuen foorth the same as yours, I had not onelyonly giuen forth an vntruth of you, but also I had discredited my selfe, for that no bodie would hauehave beleued, that so corrupt branches as you, and your fellowes are knowne to bee, could euer bring foorth any fruit that is so little corrupted. And as for your selfe, you need not to feare, that it would bee altogither accounted yours: vnles you were sure that there be none, that can set downe such a petigree of it, as that they leaue a verie small portion thereof to be yours (but those brabling points of popery onelyonly.) I hauehave heard long since, and not, sought out by mee, by one that hath trauailed in those parts, that your selfe did but translate the Booke that nowe you call yours, and added vntounto it most of those points of popery, and not much besides: & that the Booke was before in the Italian toong, and in Italy commonly solde, and by the reporter read there. But whether it be so or not I cannot say, nor will not ground vponupon report. If it bee so, your self best knoweth: and then there is the lesse cause why you should take this matter so hotely. Sure I was when first I read it, that a latter had busilie added vntounto the doings of the former: and that chiefly in matters of popery, as in my preface before I noted. And since I saw your latter booke I was therby much more strengthened to thinke that whose soeuer the better part of the forine booke was, without all quaestion it was none o… yours. But to returne to my selfe againe, seing that p. 85I had sufficiently acknowledged and published to all, that it was not doone by you in such sorte as it was set foorth by me, you hauehave no cause hereby to gather, that we are so voide of honest dealing, fidelitie, conscience, and regard of God and man, that if wee had the keeping and setting out of the Fathers, as you hauehave had, we would lop them, and circumcise them, and make them to speake as our selues would. I hauehave doone no more yet, but onlie that I would not suffer you to traile them in, against their wils, and to make them speake as you would hauehave them: I hauehave not laboured to make them speake as we would hauehave them.

20 And so nowe to come to your selues, that hauehave had those monuments of antiquitie so long in your keeping,How faithfully the later church of Rome hath kept the monuments of antiquitie. and hauehave (as you would fayne hauehave the world perswaded) so truly kept them, & so faithfully set them foorth to others, heerein you discouer your vnshamefast and graceles nature so far, that no bodie needeth to lay you more open than you do your selfe. For what man, that hath anie honest shame, can so confidently beare the world in hand, in that which himselfe doth know to be most vntrue? and that, not onelyonly for the time that is past, but also for this time that now is present. For, as touching the time that is past, howe can you be ignorant (would you neuer so faine) of the great corruptions and forgeries, that your Church of Rome hath euer vsed? Immediately after that persecution was ceased, and that you had gotten a litle rest, beginning to deuise for your p. 86owne aduauncement, did you not labour to hauehave corrupted the Nicene councell,The Nicene Councell. and that so grosly that you were manifestly taken withall, by the whole councell of Carthage, S. Augustine himself beeing one of the Fathers that tooke you with it: And when you were taken with the manner, did you then acknowledge your fault, and aske forgiuenes, that we might conceiue hope of grace, & that you would vse it no more? No, but hauing the forhead of an harlot that shameth with nothing, you added an other forgerie vntounto it to saue your credit withall; bringing in Athanasius complaining, that the Arrians had burnt al the copies of most of those canons of the Nicene Councell: so to make some shew to the world, that those bishops of Affrike did not iustly giuegive you the repulse in that your ambitious attempt; but that all they did want the full copies of that councell, which notwithstanding you then had, and thereby made the claime that you did. Afterward, whē you had gotten on cock-horse, and were desirous to make the world beleeue, that it was not of new vsurpation, but from reuerend antiquitie most certainely descended, howe did you then altogither followe vppon that naughtie practise, forging manie decretall Epistles vnderunder the names of most of the Fathers,Decretall Epistles. exceedingly aduauncing your praerogatiue, and commending your ceremonies, and, besides that, making a faire deede of gift in the name of Constantine the Emperour,Constantines gift. vntounto Siluester the Pope of all the p. 87West parte of the Empire, after that to remaine vntounto the Pope alone? And had not the iust iudgementes of GOD ouer-taken you with your ignorance and follie, or (as wee commonlie say) had your skill beene to your will, howe had the Church of God beene vntounto this day deceiued with those pamphlets? How loath should wee hauehave beene to hauehave doubted of anie of these your grosse corruptions, so long as they should shrowd them-selues vnderunder the names of so reuerend Fathers? But (God bee thanked for it) your forgeries doo hang so properlie togither, that they doo no sooner come to the light, but that by and by they showe themselues what they are: insomuch that nowe diuers of your selues hauehave written against them; and some others besides (though loath to beholde the weakenes of this their cause, but so little as may bee) yet notwithstanding are verie ill ashamed of them.

21 If wee come to the Fathers,The Fathers. S. Ierome. in some fewe of them it may bee seene, what wee may looke for in the rest. In the woorkes of Saint Ierome, as you hauehave set them foorth vntounto vsus (as the bookes them selues will witnesse) the whole fourth Tome you knowe is none of his: nor in the seauenth anie thing but his Commentarie vppon Ecclesiastes; in the eight, but his translation according to the Hebrew, nor that verie certainely neyther; in the last but onelie his Commentaries on Mathew, on foure of S. Paules p. 88epistles, and his translation of the booke of Didimus of the holy Ghost. But many others (you know well ynough) are ioined vntounto them, and go vnderunder the name of his works generally. In which case if a man should aske, who are the likeliest to hauehave shufled in these, among the true woorkers of that Father, and to put them out in his name; it were easily answered, that in reason it were like to be those, that hauehave had the keeping of them, and to whose purpose they are fitliest framed: which, as you knowe, commeth neere vntounto you, and that in such sort, as that in no wise you are able for to cleere your selues of great fault therein. Of Augustine likewise you knowe it is set downe,S. August. that in such matters men hauehave made as bolde with him, as with anie other of the Fathers besides. As for example, in the ninth Tome of his works, where there are about seuen and fortie seuerall woorkes vnderunder his name generally, yet notwithstanding there are not past seuen (or thereabout) that are knowne to bee his; and all the other fortie flatlie reiected, sauing a verie fewe of them that are but doubted. In the last tome likewise of his fiftie homilies he hath about halfe: of his sermons de tempore, not fully out a tenth (for hee hath but about 43. of 256:) of his sermons de sanctis, hee hath a dozen, of one and fiftie: and of his sermons ad fratres in eremo, of threescore and sixteene, hee hath but six, and your Abbat Tritthemius himselfe, in his recitall of the Ecclesiasticall writers, when hee commeth to this Father, hee dooth not onelyonly put p. 89out by name certain of those (as none of his) which you notwithstanding commend vntounto vsus among the rest: but also doth adde generally, that So manie Treatises & Sermons are falsly ascribed vntounto that Father, that the reckoning of them vp, would require a volume by it selfe. You were the keepers of these bookes also; you had the writing of them out; & your cause it is that those additions giuegive credite vntounto: we hauehave receiued them so of you; and our cause is no where holpen by any of those bastard works whatsoeuer, but on the other side as much discredited as they are able. If therefore the quaestion bee betwixt you and vsus, whether part it is that hath so corrupted the Fathers, there is no quaestion, but that needs it must fall to bee yours: or, at least, that it commeth much neerer vntounto you, than it doth vntounto vsus.

22 But yet to make it somewhat cleerer, by some example,Particular examples. M. R. in his confer. cap. 5. diuis. 2. first I trust you know well inough howe far you are of late charged, as with diuers others, so namely with Thomas Aquinas, for his ill dealing with Cyril, and with the whole Councell of Chalcedon. My selfe at this present will goe no further, but onelyonly to put you a little in mind, both how truly you can finde in your hartes to alledge, and how you alter the place it selfe, when it maketh for your purpose so to doo. For the former, whereas Augustine teacheth to iudge of Scriptures, which were most to bee esteemed,De doctrin. Christ. lib. 2. cap, 8. setteth downe this rule, that therein we are to followe the authoritie of the most part of the Catholike churches, p. 90and especially of those that hauehave Apostolike Seas, & hauehave beene vouchsafed to receiue the Epistles from the Apostles sent vntounto them:Dist. 19. In canonicis. you tell vsus that he saith, that those also are Scripture, that the Apostolike Sea hath (meaning Rome …) and such as it hath vouchsafed to sende vntounto others. And this for the aduauncement of your Church of Rome, and to make all such things authentike Scripture, that either it bringeth foorth out of your own libraries there: or els at any time it is disposed to send vntounto others. For the other; whereas in like maner the same Saint Augustine said at the first, that that bodie of Christ wherein hee rose from death to life, must needes be in one place: you hauehave now of late made him to say, that it may be in one place: and this because you saw it made so directly against your fonde and blastphemous error of Transubstantiation, which now you hauehave taken vponupon you to defend, and thereupon hauehave endeuored to help your selues with such poore helples shifts as these. That you hauehave made Augustine so to speake now, the books do witnes that you hauehave printed: that hee did not say so before, your own late Doctors do plainly testifie,(a)(a)li. 4. dist. 10. the master of Sentences,(b)(b)de consecr. dist 2. Prima quidem. Gratian,(c)(c)parte. 3. Quest. 75. Art. 1. Th. Aquinas, (d)(d)super can. missae. lect. 39. A.Gabriel Biel, & others. What others of this kind might be alledged, your selues do knowe so wel already (both because your selues be the doers, & are daily taken with this kind of dealing) that it is about needles to bring in any mo examples of it. I wold you could as readily acknowledge your p. 91ill dealing herein, to your amendment: as wee are able to charge you with it, to the vtter discredite of the naughtie cause that you hauehave in hand.

23 As touching this time that nowe is praesent (I mean, since the time that God of his goodnes hath bestowed this light of the Gospell vponupon vsus) first it is good for you heere to remember, that alreadie I named one such companion of yours in mine Epistle, Iohannes Baptista Fickler: such a companion in this kind of dealing, as anie where I beleeue you were hardly able to finde. And therefore you did wisely, to say nothing of him. Then also I trust your selfe can likewise tell, how deepely you are charged alreadie, that euer since this light of the Gospell hath set you so streight, and put you so much to your shifts as it hath, you hauehave done your endeuour the best that you could, to frame the Fathers and other writers to your best aduantage. And namely, how to that purpose you hauehave dealt with Ludouicus Viues, Iohannes Molanus, and Carolus Sigonius, whose books yet extant,M. Reinolds in his praeface of the Confer. to the Seminaries. pag. 23.26. as they were imprinted before, doo plainely shewe in their latter impressions by you, howe fowly you hauehave abused them since. So likewise, when you got Manutius to Rome, to reprint the Fathers for you, vnderunder the ouersight of foure Cardinals, howe corruptly you began with Cyprian first: and that Manutius himselfe confessed resonable plainly, how il he was there imploied by you. But to come somwhat neerer vntounto you what say you to that wherwith Franciscus Iunius p. 92doth charge you, that himselfe did see (at Lyons, in the shoppe of Frelonius) of your dealing with Ambrose:In praef. ad lect. in Indicem Expurg. when as there he tooke you in the maner, crossing out of the works of that father, which before had beene set foorth according to the ancient copies) sometimes but certaine sentences onelyonly, but sometimes againe whole pages togither? Or how are you able in any good sense to defend that which you hauehave already doone these many yeres, and daily yet doo, by that your Index expurgatorius? HaueHave you not thereby put out at your pleasure, whatsoeuer yet you had left of the Fathers that made against you? And not onelyonly that, but whatsoeuer Arguments, Annotations, Scholies, & such like, the learned men of late (& some of them euen of your owne side also) had put thereunto, whereby your former dealing with those Fathers was the rather called in question, by the light that they gaue to the woorkes themselues, out of their obseruation, and diligent reading? And hauehave you not nowe printed them againe after your fashion: dismembred themselues nowe more by you, than by your predecessors before; and spoiled likewise of those learned helps that gaue light vntounto them, and to your former il dealing with them? Or could you holde your selues contented to stay there? HaueHave you not reached foorth those self-same fingers of yours to many other good woorks besides, of diuinitie, humanitie, historie, philosophie, lawe, physike, and all: and in them also sometimes put in what you thought good, but for the most part p. 93dasht out (at your pleasure) whatsoeuer touched anie of your errors, or no more but your pride and loosenes of life? And yet notwithstanding, hauehave you not in such sort set them forth, as though they were those Fathers and Authors themselues, nothing at all gelded by you? For, doo you professe the thing you hauehave doone, or could you finde in your harts that men should be priuie to your dealings herein? Why then did you all things in hugger-mugger? Why did you so sercretly amōg your selues (and none but the chiefest & surest of you) gather that Expurgatorie table of yours? Why did you print no mo copies of it, but onelyonly for certain chiefe and speciall persons? Why was it, that not one of those copies might come abroad? Why was there taken so strict an order, that those that had them should keepe them close, and neuer to bee known of them? For hauehave you not expresly prouided, ne quis praeter Prototypographum Regium hune Indicem imprimat, neue ille aut quis alius publice vel priuate vendat, aut citra ordinariorum facultatem, out permissionem habeat. And speaking of those sure-bies of yours, vntounto whome you dare commit these copies, do you not there againe commaund, that ipsi priuatim nullis que consciis apud se Indicem Expurgatorium habeant, quem eundem neque aliis communicabant, neque eius exemplum vlli dabunt: sed tantum id curabunt diligentissime, vt loca praedicta inquirant, expungant, &c. Are not these your owne words, and many others to the same effect, in that your Table? So your Correctors and Printers p. 94must so doo: but they must not be acknown why they do it, or what direction it was that they followed. Insomuch that you may safely beare your nouices & prosylites in hand now, that there is no Doctor, nor almost any other approued writer, that in any thing speaketh against you. For whom you could not correct to your minde, him hauehave you boldly strooken out cleane: so verie peremptory now hauehave you bene. And those miserable prosylites of yours must needes be perswaded now, that all is with them, and nothing at all anie where against them. For they may in no wise suspect anie such dealing in you: and your selues wit make sure inough, that you will not tell thē. That so it may be fulfilled in them, that Christ himself noted in others such like, that they shuld be two-fould the children of hell, more than your selues. For your selues do know, what legerdemaine you hauehave vsed in these matters to deceiue them withall, and so may esteeme of your cause accordingly (but only of policie for to hold vp, so long as may be, your earthly estate:) but they doo not know it, and so may bee in good sadnes indeed, and neuer espie how they were beguiled. But God be thanked, that would not suffer you so to abuse the world still: but hath nowe brought foorth into the open light of the sunne, that mysterie of iniquitie, that you hauehave beene woorking so long in your secret corners. God bee thanked also, that before hee would so fullie bring your dooinges abroad, hee suffered you to runne so farre as might p. 95be sufficient to shew vntounto all, how you hauehave deale with the Fathers and Councels, and all other antiquities before: and how farre past shame you are nowe, to sticke at nothing whatsoeuer it be, wherby you may hope to holde mens eies in blindnes still, and to entangle the truth it selfe. As for your selfe, I doo not charge you as one of the dooers: it was some-what before you came to hauehave anie place among them; and yet not much. Neither doo. I thinke, that yet you are of that credite with them, as it was then thought meet for those, that should bee the dealers in that matter. But I trust that you will not denie, but that since that time it is come vntounto your knowledge, that so they hauehave doone. If it be so, what face hauehave you then, that could so boldly lay that to my charge, and to the charge of others besides, that neyther in mee, nor in anie of vsus, you are able to finde: and that which you knewe might bee found in your selues in the highest degree? Were you perswaded, that by crying out so lowd against such dealing, you could hauehave vsus to beleeue, that your selues did so much detest it, that wee might doubt no such thing in you? Indeede we doo not doubt it now: for our selues doo plainely see it. If you did not know so much before, then by all likelyhood you wil soone leaue them now, when as you find that same in them in so plentiful maner, that supposing to be in vsus you hauehave shewed your selfe so much to mislike: vnles you had rather that in your self it should appeere p. 96by this one example in steed of the rest, that neyther your profession, nor your other dooings thervnto appertaining, are in truth any other, but such as your selues beeing better aduised do euer mislike, and of your selues graunt to be naught.

Of the treatise of Pacificatiō.24 Then comming to my Treatise of Pacification, although you catch heere and there at … yet whosoeuer it is, that considereth howe little fault you were able to finde, after that once you had giuen your selfe to doo what you could, may soone espie, that, in effect, you hauehave iustified all. And indeede there is nothing at all, that for this matter you hauehave laid to my charge, but only that, which is either of no importāce, but very trifling: or els if the matter bee in it selfe of some weight, then is the place first by you depraued, and after that obiected to me as mine. Insomuch that there is no point at all that you charge mee with, but may easily bee sorted to one of those two: that is, either trifling;Of those that are trifling. or els depraued. Of the former sort are these two, that first you charge me to hauehave offered you so great iniurie in that your booke, that I thereby hauehave cut off all hope of agreement; the other, that you carpe at my method, and say that all things there run in couples: of the latter, are al the rest.Of the iniurie that he saith I hauehave offered vntounto him, to the ouerthrowe of al agreement. That you charge mee to hauehave offered so great iniurie vntounto you, that thereby the way to agreement is praeuented, it lieth vppon a matter of controuersie that is betwixt vsus. If you had set downe no more (in the booke that nowe you call yours) then that which standeth with the truth, p. 97then might you iustly complaine that I had done you wrong therein: but if you hauehave put in more, and wickedly mingled the truth of God, with your lies, as it is certaine that you hauehave done, and I doo charge you, where then is this wrong that you do complaine of. As for my methode,Of my methode. what cause hauehave you at all to complaine, but onelyonly that you thinke that you are wrong, if you carpe not at all? HaueHave you neuer read tables ere now? And do you not knowe that the fewer members that anie thing is reduced vntounto, the better it is thereby diuided? If I hauehave laboured to reduce all to fewer members, and therby gotten the method so much the better, both for the plainnes and certaintie of it, must this needes bee so offensiue vntounto you, that you could not passe by, before you had snatched at it also? Was it not inough for you to go vntouched, for the loose and negligent diuisions that you hauehave made (if so bee I may trulie call them yours (but that you must be finding fault with an other, in that which your owne doings do iustifie? Or hauehave you the face to say, that it confoundeth memorie to hauehave all reduced vntounto a couple of principall heads, and the subdiuisions to the same belonging to be sorted withal to their proper places: and yet that it confoundeth no memorie in yours to leaue thē at large, to foure, fiue, six, seuen, eight, and mo, and to take them hand-ouer-head: that first, that should bee last; and that last, that should be first? But such is the vanitie of our Iesuits now (and belike, a peece of their order) that p. 98they must find fault with al others, and neuer like of any but themselues: and euer they are to mislike the manifestation of the truth, not onelie as touching the thing it selfe; but also, whensoeuer any do labour to set it downe more distinctly, or in plainer maner, that so it might bee so much the better perceiued by others.

Of those that are by him depraued, in that which I had set downe to persuade others.25 Those that you hauehave first depraued, & after that obiected vntounto me, are very manie: & yet to so little purpose withal, that it is in a maner but lost labour to go against them, they do so easily fall of themselues. But that you may see your vanitie the better, I will not sticke a little to holde the glasse vntounto you, so that you also wil looke better into it, and bee content to acknowledge those spots that so you may find. And first (concerning Religion),Cōcerning Religion. That I shuld seem to vaunt of our owne proper lerning, aboue all others. whereas I say, that it hath pleased God to blesse this age of ours, with so cleere and singular a light of the truth, as (to our knowledge) hee neuer yet bestowed on others, heere doo you full wiselie charge me, that I exclude all your companie, and claime to hauehave that light alone among our selues. And yet it is as cleere as the sunne, that I spake it onelyonly of this Age generally, and not of the parties that are diuided: not of our selues, more than of you; but indifferently, of both togither, and all others besides. But otherwise you could not tell, how to bodge in those impertinent complaintes, that therupon you infer, to ease your stomake of the boyling of them.He gibeth at the consequence, after that first he hath taken away one halse of that whereon it depē deth. Immediatly after, taking vpō you to recite the chiefe & principal points of that p. 99my Treatise, you begin so ilfauoredly, that therby only you put vsus out of hope, after-ward to finde good dealing with you. Whereas therefore I said, that you ought to ioine in profession with vsus, for that it becommeth and behoueth the Church of God (in many respects) to bee at vnitie in it selfe: and yet the case so standeth in this matter, that wee are not able in our profession to yeelde vntounto you, but you verie wel may, and of dutie ought to accord vntounto vsus: heere come you in and say, that to prooue that you should ioine with vsus, I alledge that the Church should bee at vnitie in it selfe. Which reason, say you, how farre it prooueth his purpose, let the Reader consider. Yea verily, the Reader may very well consider, that your cause is verie weake, whē as you can get out no greater matters to cauill at: and yet are faine in them also, to leane so much to vntruth besides. Afterward againe, whereas I denie not, but that diuers there may bee, that doo not care for anie Religion,That I shuld seem to graunt, that there is no cause why men should ioin with vsus in respect of Religion: but in respect of Policie onelyonly. who yet notwithstanding would be loth to ioyne with the Pope, for manie good causes in respect of their ciuil estate: heere come you in againe after your wonted maner, charging mee to say, that this onelyonly reason of State, holdeth many on our side froe frō comming to you, who otherwise in conscience would hauehave no scruple at all; and therewithal you wonder that euer my Lord Archbishop would let such a confession to passe in print. As though I had eyther plainelie professed, or couertlie insinuated thereby, that such as doo imbrace p. 100this religion especially, doo it not in respect of religion it selfe, but in some wordly respect onelie. Which how foolish a cauill it is, it selfe alone sufficiently declareth.

The I deuise bugs on the Ecclesiastical authoritie of the B. of Rome.But then, that you leese no time, while your hande is in, you go further, and are bolde to say, that though this poore Minister, to terrifie the common people (say you, but these bugs terrifie your papacie more) deuiseth bugs vppon the Ecclesiasticall authoritie of the Bishop of Rome: yet (your conclusion is) that it is verie plaine and palpable, that there is no such inconuenience. But soft I pray you. Did this poore Minister (thinke you indeede) deuise these bugs? Were they neuer heard of before. Are there no histories that you hauehave read, or can beleeue, that make mention of them? Would you so faine, so slily passe ouer the great complaints, that the countries here-abouts, as England, France, and Germanie continually hauehave made, at home, and abroad, of this matter? As for the examples of priuate men, although they be infinite, and, of al sorts and degrees verie manie: yet beeing but priuate, and of seuerall persons, it is not vnlikely, but that such an one as professeth such blindnes as you do, would readily say he saw none of them all. But Fraunce and Germanie (if you looke abroad) are great States: and England likewise, if you can content your selfe at home. And as for the two former of these three, neither of them is so farre off, nor in these your wilfull and graceles wandrings so vnknown vntounto you, but that you might easily know p. 101(could you as readily acknowledge it when you do see it) that in Fraunce Lewis the ninth, Philip the faire, Charles the fift, sixt, and seuenth, did all prouide by publike authoritie, against the couetousnes, extortion, ambition, and pride of the Sea of Rome: and that although Lewis the eleuenth (in latter time) was content at the Popes request, to abolish the Pragmaticall sanction, and other lawes that they had made to that purpose; yet diuers Bishops, the students of Paris, and Iohannes Romanus the Kings Atturney, a wise, a learned, & an eloquent man, would in no wise consent to the abolishing of them. In Germany likewise the nobles and commons did earnestly sollicite Frederike of Austrich the Emperour, both before his coronation, and after, for the redresse of those matters (in such manner as Fraunce before had done:) and beeing at that time defeated by the wicked counsel of Aneas Siluius, did neuertheles, stil hold on the same endeuour whensoeuer opportunitie serued, and to that ende put vp a supplication to Maximilian, of ten speciall greeuances, and an other of an hundred (in the session of Noremberg) to the Pope himselfe. And for the other, being an English-man (though but a bad one in the quarrel that now you sustain) neuer heard you what great stickling and busines about these matters there was, betwixt William Rufus, and Anselme Archbishop of Canterbury: betweene Henry the first, and not onelyonly Anselme, but Thurstan also the Archbishop of Yorke: and betweene Henry the p. 102second, and Thomas Becket that proud, and arrogant, and head-strong traitor? Nor how Edward the third, did to that end not onelyonly reuiue the statute of Praemunire, made before by Edward the first: but also would in no wise abrogate the same, though hee were much sollicited vntounto it by Gregorie the eleuenth: nor how Richard the second by publike authoritie likewise both reconfirmed, and further strengthened the same: nor howe, though it was againe attempted to bee abolished in the raigne of Henry the sixt by the earnest intreatie of Martin the fift, yet was it not obtained, but still stood in force, euen to this praesent age of ours? If these thinges were straunge, or but seldome heard of, I would with good will hauehave noted vntounto you the stories them-selues more at large, and the places whence they are taken: but being so euident and knowne as they are, in is but lost labour to deale any further, but onelyonly to put you in mind of them. How is it then that you goe about to perswade your reader, that these are but bugs by mee deuised to terrifie the common people? HaueHave you the face so to dissemble the weakenes of your cause: & to lay off the same, you care not how, vppon anie others? Then are they vnwise, that knowing this, will heereafter be deceiued by you. But to proceed, is it the Ecclesiasticall authoritie of the Bishop of Rome, whereon these bugs, (as you say) are deuised? Is that Ecclesiasticall authoritie of his of that nature, that it can meddle with ciuill causes, so manie, so great, and so verie p. 103much? And are you sure that neither the Empire, nor the kingdoms of Spaine, Fraunce, Polo…an, nor others; nor the auncient Princes of this realme of England, euer found the inconuenience that now we speake of: that the Princes of England were for so manie ages togither more potent and glorious, than they hauehave beene since the suppression thereof: and that the matter you speake of, is in it selfe so plaine and palpable? Certainely, whosoeuer it is that can so boldlie affirme these, wee hauehave no great occasion to hope that hee wil make conscience of anie thing else: and there is an other Note-this for you to put in your margent, because you are faine to fetch them so farre, for want that you hauehave them not so neere as you would. After this you come to an other, as proper a shift, as most of those that are gone before. For whereas I had saide before, that it was the safest way to rest in Christ alone for the whole woorke of our redemption;That, because I teach, that we ought to rest in Christ alone, for the whole worke of our redemption, therefore I abolish works: and that we all are little occupied in any good woorks. and that in such sort, as that wee sought no helpe of Angell or of Saint, of our owne or other folkes merits: heere come you in with a fonde collection and childish cauill, that, by this reason, such as should neuer pray, nor desire others to pray for him, hee that should neuer fast, nor doo other good deede, but should rather defie the same, and lay all vponupon the passion of Christ, should be the neerest to that aduauntage. But can you in good sadnes no better perceiue how these two may stand togither: both for to rest in Christ alone, for the whole woorke p. 104of our redemption; and yet to be occupyed therwithall in such woorks, as God hath prepared for vsus to walke in? Or if needes you would carpe here at, might you not by the like reason hauehave carped at many places of the Apostles, and Christ himselfe? For that you charge vsus to doo so little, it is no maruell, nor matter neither: your selues must bee able to giuegive a better account of your owne life, before that you shall bee allowed with vsus, to take the account of any others. But you Iesuits, Seminarie priestes, and all that company of vnnaturall impes, that so wilfully abandon your owne countrie to practise against it, and to deuote your selues to that forraine priest, hauehave faces of brasse: that although your selues do knowe, that you are defiled (almost) with all manner of euill, idolatrie, whoredome, seditious practisings, & treasonable attempts in the highest degree; yet is your modestie such, that you can bee prying at other folks liues, and flatly condemne them, before that you find them (any thing like) so ill as your owne. Would you giuegive vsus but this sparing, that you would not so hardly charge vsus, vntill we were but halfe so bad as your selues, wee might then more easily come vntounto agreement for this matter. But when the loosest of all others that this age of ours hath, and those that hauehave solde themselues to so much iniquitie, take vponupon them to be controllers & condemners of others, howsoeuer you may please your owne selues therein, and hope therby to get your owne liues to scape vnespied: yet may p. 105you not thinke, that with those that stand indifferent, it can be taken for sufficient, whether it be to charge vsus, or els no more but to discharge your selues.

26 And so hauing in this manner glaunced at such matters as I set downe concerning religion,Concerning our ciuil estate. then you addresse your selfe in like sorte to deale with certaine others that do appertaine to our ciuill estate. Where first it greeneth you that I say, that (as you report it) the blessednes of England is greater at this time, than euer it was since the lande was first inhabited: That I shuld seeme to exempt our profession from temporall calamities: and that our superiors conuey our treasure out of the land to forraine vses.or, as my selfe had set it down, that (to those that professe the Gospell, and labor to reforme their wandrings thereby) this country of ours hath nowe enioyed these manie yeeres, the most peaceable, and the most blessed time, that euer it can be found to hauehave had, since that the land was first inhabited. And so proceeding, you first depraued two other places besides, and then come in with your floorish vponupon them after your manner. For whereas first extolling the goodnes of God, vntounto those that seeke the aduancement of his glorie, I said, that, howsoeuer it be with others, yet shall it surelie go well with those; and then after, commending the gouernement that nowe wee hauehave vnderunder our owne Princes at home, therein I noted, that our treasure is not now carried out of our Realme, to the maintenance of forraine power (as heretofore it hath beene) and imploied against our selues, but that it is imployed now to the honor and defence of our selues at home: for the former you make p. 106me to say, that Protestants in these temporall affairs are alwaies prosperous, and for the latter you say, it seemeth that this good man talketh rather by meditation or fiction, than by anie great intelligence he hath in such affaires. A goodlie catch: and God bee thanked, that you are able to find no greater matters; but that you are faine to sit downe with these? But is it so grieuous a thing to you, to heare of the peace and welfare of England?Of the peace of the church. Or are you able any of you all, to name such a time of peace and blessednes, as now wee hauehave had? Or if wee cōmend the goodnes of God towardes those that are his, cā it no otherwise soūd with you, but that we must seeme to say, that in these temporall affairs we are alwaies prosperous, in that sense that you doe giuegive it? If in the way of thankfulnes we gladly acknowledge the goodnes of God, towards our natiue country & vsus, had you no better note to put in the margent of your recital of it, but Imollerable lying f…aterie? And if there was no remedie, but that needs that note must in, must you needs bee so eagerly set vpō it, that you would put in (to the first woord of it) an l more than needed, and more than true orthographie beareth, to make it …le better in the mouth of your reader? Then I perceiue, it is needfull for those that hauehave to deale with you, to holde their feet so wel as they can: if once they bee downe, you care not how pitifully you stamp them vnderunder your feet. If in like maner we acknowledge him to be very gratious towards those that professe the gospel, insomuch that whē p. 107others are troubled, yet are these more safely preserued & more comfortably gouerned: was there no remedy, but that immediatly you must aske vsus again out of your margent, How those that profes the Gospel, do prosper at this day, in France & Flanders. But, God be thanked, they prosper well, and much better than you wold hauehave them: & in England also much better now, than at that time you hoped, that by this time it should. But to keepe only to those, it was not long since the Gospel had (in a manner) no foot among them: now you see it hath gotten such hold, that the worst you can do, cannot expulse it again. You are fain to tolerate it in the one, & of necessitie you must let it alone in the other. But what if it shuld please the wisdom of God to steepe it a little longer in blood, before it shuld find the daies of peace? Would you therupon so readily infer, that it were declining: or would you so quickly prepare your triumph, as if it were now quite ouerthrown? you were no dout a wise company, if there were amōg you al, no wiser than you. Be it therfore known to you, that the more that God for the time leaueth his childrē in your hands, to do with them as you thinke good, & the more that he doth purge them in the fierie furnace of your cruelties, the cleaner & holier are they made to him, and surer are they in his good time to be aduaunced. And whether it prooue so with thē or not, yet was it no better thā plain folly in you, in such particulars so far to triumph, on so vnsure euent in the end. But pardoning this point p. 108of follie vntounto you, what a malitious slaunder is it to charge those that nowe sit at the sterne of gouernment with vsus, to let go our treasure abroad,Of carying out our treasure. to the mainteinance of forraine powers against our selues. Is it not needful, that Princes be at charged abroad, for to mainteine their peace at home? If the same be found among vsus, is that so ill a matter in it selfe, as you can bee perswaded, that therein you hauehave sufficient ground-woorke, to bluster abroad so vile a slander? Can you see no difference betwixt our former (slauish and immeasurable, but forced) suffering of that proud praelate of Rome, to gather togither and carrie away the wealth of the land as pleased him, and to imploy the same against vsus when occasion serued: and the voluntarie and needful imploying of certaine moderate sums or pencions now, that are bestowed abroad, both to our profit and honour at home? Are you so blind, that betwixt these you were able to espie no difference at all? No surely, it was not that: I will not charge you with ignorāce of it, but that of malice you would not see it: & for that cause you transposed my wordes, or did alter the placing of them to your aduauntage. For whereas I said, that our treasure doth not now goe out of the Realme to the mainteinance of forraine power, but is imployed to the honour & defence of our selues at home: you hauehave set mee downe to say, that it is not sent out of the Realme to the mainteinance of forraine power, but is imployed at home, to our honour and defence. Whereby we may verie well perceiue, that your stomake p. 109(in these matters) is not so daintie, but that for want of a cleaner diet, you would bee content to feed more homely rather than sterue?

27 And hauing so taken your pleasure of all these thinges that I set downe for the better perswasion of those that yet are out of the way,Other places by him depraued in that which I brought for the remouing of certain impedimentes that hinder others. to ioine with vsus in the truth of Religion: now come you to see what you can find in that which I hauehave added thereto, to remoue such lets as hinder, that so the perswasion may take the better place with them. And first reckoning vp certain of the meanest of those impedimentes that I saide to hinder diuers of you, there,He, first depraueth, & then derideth. because you would be loth to be thought to be staied by them, although indeed those be the chiefe that do hinder most of you all (that is the feare of your discredit, and the losse of priuate commoditie) you do nothing els but onelyonly scoffe at the matter, first calling them certaine graue impediments, and then shortly after adding, Thus discourseth this wise man in verie great sadnes. Which in truth is one of the best parts in you, to your purpose, because that therein, as before of old, so nowe wee see that yet also, you easily passe many: but when otherwise you trie your cunning against the truth, therein you make it known vntounto all, that you hauehave nothing at all to say, that is able to abide the triall. Whereof although we hauehave had examples inow already: yet, that you may the better see, that whatsoeuer you deale in, or wheresoeuer any would take the assay of you, he should euer finde you like to your selfe, heere must I in p. 110like plainnes tell you, that there is nothing at all that followeth, wherein your selfe doo not most plainelie confirme the same vntounto vsus. As for example, when as I had demaunded of you, why you should stand so much vponupon certaine controuersies, and among others recited the manner of Christ descending into hell,Christs descending into hell. that you hauehave conceiued (the manner I say, not the thing it selfe) there you, to bring vsus and our profession into some discredite thereby, will in no wise bee acknowne that I spake but of the manner of his descending into hell, and not of the thing it selfe (which notwithstanding I did verie plainely set downe) and tell your readers, that I demaund of you in verie good earnest, why you should stande so much on Christes descending into hell. But did I so indeede? Did I speake of the thing it selfe, or of the manner of it onelie? Did I not verie plainly set downe, that in such sort he descended into hell, as it fully sufficient in the iustice of God to acquite vsus: and that the same is fully beleeued of vsus all. But belike you account your selfe as much priuiledged to say what you will, as all that feare God acknowledge themselues to be limited only to say the truth. Yet on the other side, thus much libertie must you graunt vntounto others againe, that heereafter they beleeue you no further, than such dealing of yours deserueth. Furthermore, because that I there, and before had declared, that put-case your late Translation at Rhemes were true, yet the pointes that you had gained thereby p. 111were verie fewe, and withall of no great importance: heere-vponupon,That I should grant, that their faith and ours is all one. as I doo take it, you charge mee (for otherwise I cannot see whereon you can gather it) that I doo graunt, that our faith and yours is all one in substance. Which notwithstanding is cleane contrarie vntounto that which I hauehave there set downe, as may sufficiently and fully appeere, both in the second section before, & in the eighteenth that after followeth: and yet neuertheles, heere do you charge mee in your idle margent with Atheisme also. So great a greefe is it vntounto you, to hauehave it disclosed or vttered by anie that you hauehave gained so little by that long craued Translation of yours, by which you would gladly hauehave it thought, that you had borne downe all before you. If this therefore be the matter whereon you ground that charge, then hauehave you taught vsus, that Atheisme is; not only, as before we tooke it, to beleue no God, no heauen, no hell, and to make no account of Religion, but to take it as a policie onelyonly: but also, to hold, declare, or vtter, that those pointes of Religion wherein you discent from vsus, are verie trifles, and nothing woorthie such standing in, as you affoord them. Whereby it seemeth notwithstanding, that your selues hauehave thē in some admiration (how trifling soeuer that wee account them) or at least that you would beare the world in hand, that you are so highly perswaded of them.