A Trial of the Romish Clergys Title to the Church, Text and commentary · Quoted chapter 15 – Quoted chapter 16

A Trial of the Romish Clergys Title to the Church · Text and commentary · Quoted chapter 15 – Quoted chapter 16

p. 255A. D.

CHAP. XV. That theſe foure, Vna, Sancta, Catholica, Apoſtolica, that is to ſay, One, Holy, Catholicke, Apoſtolicke, are good markes, by which men may know, which is the true Church.

A. W.

The ſecond maine part of your whole treatiſe is this, that they which profeſſe the Romane faith, are the true Church. Your proofe is, that To them onelyonly, the certaine markes, whereby the Church is to be knowne, belong. Which that you might make cleare vntounto vsus, you reaſon in this ſort.

They onelyonly, who are One, Holy, Catholicke, Apoſtolicke Church, are they to whom the markes, by which the true Church may be knowne, belong.

But they onelyonly that profeſſe the Romane Religion, are they who are One, Holy, Catholicke, Apoſtolicke Church.

Therefore they onelyonly, that profeſſe the Romane Religion, are they to whom the markes, by which the true Church is to be knowne, belong.

The Maior of this ſyllogiſme you ſeeke to prooue, in this Chapter by ſhewing, that theſe properties are good markes to know the true Church by. Now properties, if we ſhall ſpeake properly according to Logicke, are Accidents or Adiuncts agreeing to eueryevery particular of that kinde, wherof they are properties, and that alwaies: neuer at any time, to any thing of any other kind. Therefore the properties of a true Church, muſt be ſuch, as agree to euerie true Church at all times, & at no time to any other Church or thing, but to a true Church only. Theſe the Logicians call Propria adiuncta, or propria quarto modo. Whether theſe foure alledged by you be ſuch or no, taking thē according to your ſenſe, we ſhal ſee in examining your proofe. That in ſome ſenſe they are certaine markes of a true Church, we make no queſtion.

A. D. §. 1.

Sith our Sauiour Chriſt hath thought good to plant a viſible Church vponupon earth, which he would hauehave to continue, vntill the worlds end, for this ſpeciall intent and purpoſe, that all men in all ages, by meanes of it, may learne the doctrine of the true faith: the p. 256true worſhip of God: the right vſe of the Sacraments: the wholſome lawes of good life: and generally all good things that appertaine to the glorie of God, and the ſaluation of our ſoules; we hauehave not any reaſon to doubt, but that the ſame our Sauiour (for the exceeding louelove, which, of his part, without exception or reſpect of perſons, he beareth to all mankind) hath ordained ſome markes or notes, by which all ſorts, and conſequently euen ſimple men may ſufficiently diſcerne which companie (among many which challenge to themſelues the title of the true Church) is indeed the true Church. For ſith, he would hauehave euerie one to heare, and learne things neceſſarie to ſaluation, onelyonly of the true Church: we muſt needs thinke his wiſedome and goodneſſe to hauehave marked this his Church with ſuch manifeſt ſignes and properties, that all men may eaſily know it, and diſcerne it from others, whom he knew would take vponupon them (though falſely) the title and profeſſion of the true Church.

This ſeemeth to hauehave bene expreſly foretold by the prophet Iſaias, when he ſaith: Scietur in gentibus ſemē eorum, & germen eorum in medio populorū. Omnes qui viderint eos, cognoſcentillos, Iſay. cap. 61.Isa 61quia iſti ſunt ſemen, cui benedixit Dominus. Their ſeed ſhall be knowne in the nations, and their of spring in the midſt of the people; all that ſhall ſee thē ſhall know them, becauſe theſe are that ſeed, which our Lord hath bleſſed. Which is as much, as if he ſhould ſay, that the Church ſhall hauehave ſuch manifeſt markes, that it ſhall be eaſie for euerie one to know them to be the true Church.

Some of theſe markes are ſet downe by Saint Auſtin, who calleth them bands or chaines, which do hold a faithfull man in the Catholicke lib. con. Ep. Fund. cap. 4.Church; although for the ſlowneſſe of his wit, or for ſome other cauſe, he doth not euidently ſee the truth of the doctrine in it ſelfe.

A. W.

Ere you come to prooue that which you hauehave propounded, you fall into an vnneceſſary diſcourſe, about the marks of the Church: wherein firſt you prooue, as you can, that our Sauiour hath left certaine markes, whereby all men in all ages may know the true Church. Secondly you ſet downe ſome names of theſe markes, giuen them according to the effects they worke in men.

The proofe of your former point lieth thus.

p. 257If our Sauior hauehave planted a viſible Church vponupon earth, to the end that all mē in all ages, might learne of it only all good things appertaining to the glory of God, & their own ſaluatiō, thē he hath ordained marks, by which eueryevery mā may know the true Church.

But our Sauiour hath to that end, planted a viſible Church.

Therfore he hath giuē marks, by which eueryevery mā may know &c.

Though there be nothing in this proofe, which hath not bene anſwered already yet I mull be faine to ſay ſomething to it. I To the Minor.denie the Minor, hauing ſhewed in anſwer to eeChap. 5.the fift chapter, that it neuer was Gods purpoſe to hauehave eueryevery particular man partaker of ſaluatiō by Ieſus Chriſt. Now it is needleſſe to adde that our Sauiour being ffMat. 3. 17. Ioan. 5. 30. & 6. 38.Matt 3:17John 5:30John 6:38ſent by God, with perfect knowledge of his purpoſe, would not intend any thing contrarie to the will of his Father, or otherwiſe then he was directed by his commiſſion. ggIoan. 17. 9.John 17:9I pray not for the world, but for them, that thou haſt giuen me out of the world. hhRom. 11. 5.Rom 11:5All this preſent time there is a remnant, according to the election of grace. Therefore viſible Churches (for to dreame of any one vniuerſall viſible Church is againſt reaſon, not only againſt Scripture) were ordained properly (as the miniſtery of the word, & iiHeb. 2. 14.Heb 2:14the ſeruice of Angels) for their ſakes that are to be ſaued, according to the election of God. Secondly, and as it were accidentally, for the hardening of them, that will not beleeue, to leaue them without excuſe. To make your matter the more likely, you tell vsus of our Sauiours louelove to mankind, which in your diuinity is without exception, or reſpect of perſons. How then can it ſute with the purpoſe of God his Father, kkRom. 9. 11. l Tit. 2. 4.Rom 9:11Titus 2:4who hath choſen ſome to glory, & refuſed other, meerly of his owne iuſt will, without reſpect of difference in the parties ſo choſen & refuſed? As for I that louelove of mankind, wherupon ſome men conclude, that either all, or the greateſt part of men are loued by God to eternal life, it is not to be vnderſtood by compariſon of men to men, but partly of men to the Angels that fell; in which reſpect the Apoſtle amplifies the mercy of God to vsus, mmHeb. 2. 16.Heb 2:16He tooke not the Angels, but he tooke the ſeed of Abraham: partly of men, to all other creatures; none of which, beſides man, is vouchſafed the honour to be ioyned in vnity of perſon with the Sonne of God, and ſo to be made heire of euerlaſting glory.

p. 258It is needleſſe to repeat what I anſwered before to this place of Iſay, onelyonly I will ſay thus much of your expoſition, that though all, that ſee the Church, may know it: yet it doth not follow, that therefore all men may ſee it: which you make the end of planting a viſible Church, that euerie man may learne how to be ſaued. We denie not, that the markes of the Church, are ſuch as that any man, who hath the meanes, and will vſe them with conſcience and diligence, may come (by the grace of God) to the acknowledging of it, and by the miniſterie of it, to ſaluation. Such is the truth of doctrine, wherein euerie man may be inſtructed, who will ſubmit his reaſon to the euidence of truth conteined in the holy Scriptures, and not wilfully reſiſt, or careleſly neglect the worke of the ſpirit in the miniſterie of the word.

The bands and chaines, nnAuguſt. cont. epiſt. Fundam. cap. 4.Auſtin ſpeaketh of, are not ſaid to draw a man out of the world vntounto the Church, but to hold him in it, that is in already. And ſurely he were vnreaſonably abſurd, that being borne in the profeſſion of Chriſtianitie, or by any other occaſion, brought to ioyne himſelfe vntounto this or that Church, would not cōtinue his beleefe vponupon thoſe groūds, that Auſtin there mentions, as long as there could be no ſufficiēt reaſon brought to the contrarie, yea though he could not diſcerne the truth of many points, which he held as he had bene taught. But Auſtin in the ſame place profeſſeth, that the markes, he names, and all other whatſoeuer, whereby he is held in the Catholicke Church, are nothing worth in compariſon of truth manifeſtly prooued out of the Scripture. But of this matter I ſhall hauehave occaſion to ſpeake againe hereafter, where you propound ſome of Auſtins words more at large.

A. D. §. 2.

Of theſe markes, diuers authors hauehave written at large. I (for breuitie ſake) hauehave choſen out onelyonly theſe foure: Vna, Sancta, Catholica, Apoſtolica: One, Holy, Catholicke, Apoſtolicke: becauſe I hope theſe will be ſufficient, and becauſe I finde theſe eſpecially, ſet forth in Scriptures: commended by Councels: and generally admitted, of all ſorts, both Catholickes and Proteſtants, as now I am to declare.

Firſt, for the generall admittance of theſe properties of the true p. 259Church, I need no other proofe, but that both Catholicks and Proteſtants allow of the Nicene, and Conſtantinopolitane Creed, wherein we profeſſe to beleeue the true Church, the which Church, is there deſcribed with thoſe onelyonly foure properties which before I named, as though by thoſe onelyonly, eueryevery man might ſufficiently know that Church, which in euerie point, they are bound to beleeue. Now if beſides this proofe, out of the generally receiued Counſels, ſome preciſe man would hauehave me prooue theſe properties to agree to the true Church, out of the Scripture it ſelfe, this alſo I may eaſily doe.

A. W.

So many and diuers are the markes of the Church, propounded by ooBellar. de not. Eccleſ. li. 4. cap. 3.Sir 51:4your Popiſh writers, that you had good cauſe, to giuegive ſome reaſon, why you cull theſe foure out of all the reſt. Firſt you alledge breuitie: wherof if you had beene ſo deſirous, you would not ſo often hauehave repeated the ſame matters. You adde the ſufficiencie of theſe, their being mentioned in the Scripture, commended by Councels, and generally admitted by all ſorts, both Catholickes and Proteſtants. All which, taking them in your ſenſe, are generally falſe, as ſhall appeare in the particular handling of them. But indeed the true cauſe is, though you will not be knowne of it, that Bellarmine out of whom you hauehave patched vp your whole diſcourſe, though he bring fifteene: yet confeſſeth that they may all after a ſort, be reduced to theſe foure.

There are two faults in this proofe, whereby you labour to perſwade vsus, that theſe properties are generally admitted, both by Proteſtants and Papiſts. Firſt, though both admit them, yet in diuers ſenſes; we according to the true meaning of thoſe Councels; you according to thoſe phantaſies you hauehave deuiſed, for the eſtabliſhing of your Apoſtaticall Synagogue. Secondly, we admit them not all as markes of the, or a viſible Church, but as hidden properties of the Catholicke Church, the myſticall bodie of Ieſus Chriſt, which are not to be diſcerned by the eye of the bodie, but by the light of faith, as all other articles in the ſame Creed are. What though there be no more properties, but thoſe foure there ſet downe? will it follow thence, that therefore they are named, as though by thoſe onelyonly; p. 260euerie man might ſufficiently know the Church? Is that the vſe of thoſe points which are deliuered concerning the Father, the Sonne, and the holy Ghoſt? Or rather, are they not ſet before vsus, as principall matters to be beleeued, of them? So are alſo theſe properties of the Church.

If any man be ſo ſimple, as to take your former proofe for good, whereas it faileth in the chiefe point you would, prooue by it, as I hauehave ſhewed; he is fitter to be pittied then inſtructed. But, is it a note of preciſeneſſe, to deſire proofe, for matters of faith out of the ſcripture? Doubtleſſe it was then no leſſe preciſeneſſe, to appoint the ſcripture for a rule of our faith; and as great, for our Sauiour Chriſt and the Apoſtles to confirme their doctrine out of the ſcripture. For this courſe of theirs makes vsus the bolder to require the like of you, whoſe authoritie we more doubt of: whereas if they had ſtood vponupon their priuiledge, and neuer troubled themſelues with proouing that they deliuered, or leauing their doctrine in writing, we ſhould eaſily hauehave perſwaded our ſelues to reſt vponupon mens authoritie, and not to looke for any proofe by ſcripture. But giuegive me leaue a little to conſider of this courſe of yours. The queſtion is, whether the true Church be with you or with vsus. You tell vsus we ſhall know that, by ſeeing whether you or we hauehave the markes of the true Church: we accept of this triall. How ſhall we informe our ſelues what theſe markes are? Tuſh (ſay you) for that matter you muſt be ruled by the Councels. Why? but the Councels, as you would make vsus beleeue, were wholly for you, and conſiſted of Popiſh Biſhops: what reaſon hauehave we then to ſtand to their iudgment, in a controuerſie betwixt you & vsus? You will anſwer that we ſay, they were not Popiſh. We ſay ſo indeed, and hauehave prooued it in diuers points, as occaſion hath bene offered. But we adde further, that theſe Councels might erre, you denie it. How will you perſwade vsus the contrarie? When all is done, we muſt come to triall by the Scriptures, or elſe take your word for it. And is it for all this, preciſeneſſe to require proofe out of the Scriptures, of thoſe marks you would prooue your Church by? I hauehave ſhewed before, that there is no means to know certainly there is any Church of Chriſt, or any Chriſt, but by the Scriptures. p. 261Are not the Scriptures then the fitteſt meanes to teach vsus by what marks this Church may be knowne? The Councels tell vsus, what they are. Who told them? the holy Ghoſt. Let it be ſo. But how did he tell them? by ſome reuelation, vtterly beſide the Scriptures, or by truth in the Scriptures? If the former; we aske how we may be ſo perſwaded? The church tels you ſo. Yet again the church? How knows the church that they had ſuch reuelatiō? What help now, but about again to the ſcriptures? Thinke not much then, if in this queſtiō cōcerning the marks of the church, we deſire to be taught by the Scriptures what thoſe markes are; eſpecially ſince (as you profeſſe) you may do it ſo eaſily: but I am afraid you will do it with more eaſe then truth.

A. D. §. 3.

The true Church is ſignified to be one, by thoſe words of the Canticles, Vna eſt columba mea; if we will beleeue the expoſition The firſt mark Vna prooued out of Scripture. Cant 6. Cypr. l. de vnit. Eccliſiae. Auguſt. l. 6. in Ioan. Iob. c. 10. Rom. 12. 1. Cor. 10. Ioh. 17.Song 6Job 10Rom 121 Cor 10John 17of Saint Cyprian and S. Auſtin. Alſo we may gather the ſame out of thoſe words of our Sauiour, in which he calleth his Church vnum ouile, one ſheepfold. Alſo by thoſe places of S. Paul, where he termeth the Church vnum corpus, one bodie. Moreouer, Chriſt our Sauiour praying for his Church, did ſpecially intreate, and without doubt obtained, vt omnes vnum ſint, that all the members thereof ſhould be one thing, to wit, that at the least they ſhould all profeſſe one and the ſame faith, all partake of one and the ſame baptiſme, and other ſacraments, all liue vnderunder one and the ſame Lord, in due ſubordination and ſubiection to that vniforme and orderly gouernment of lawful paſtors, ordained and appointed in the Church by him. The true Church of Chriſt therefore is one.

Contrary, the conuenticles of hereticks are deſtitute of this marke of vnitie, according as Tertullian affirmeth, ſaying, Denique penitus inſpectae haereſes omnes, in multis deprehenduntur cum auctoribus Lib. de Praeſcr.ſuis diſſentientes: Finally all hereſies, if they be wel looked into, are found to differ in many things from their firſt founders. And the reaſon of this diſagreement among heretickes, the ſame Tertullian aſſigneth very well in the ſame place, ſaying, Variant inter ſe Ibidem.haeretici, dum vnuſquiſque pro ſuo arbitrio modulatur quod accepit, quemadmodum ea pro arbitrio compoſuit ille qui tradidit. Heretickes do differ (in points of doctrine) among themſelues, while as eueryevery one taketh vponupon him to faſhion the faith which he receiued, p. 262according to his owne liking or fancie: like as he that first deliuered it vntounto them, did inuent it according to his owne will and pleaſure.

A. W.

We are now come to the very point, for proofe of your maior, that they onelyonly who are one, holy, Catholick, Apoſtolick Church, are they to whom the markes, by which the true Church is to be knowne, belong.

To make this proofe good, you diſpute in this manner.

If One, Holy, Catholicke, Apoſtolicke, be good marks to know the true Church by, then they onelyonly who are One, Holy, Catholicke, Apoſtolicke Church, are they to whom the markes by which the true Church may be knowne, belong.

But thoſe foure properties, One, Holy, Catholick, Apoſtolick, are good markes by which the true Church may be knowne.

Therefore they onelyonly who are One, Holy, Catholicke, Apoſtolicke Church, are they to whom the markes, by which the true Church may be knowne, belong.

The conſequence of your maior is but weake. For theſe To the propoſition.foure properties may be good markes to know the true church by: that whereſouer we ſee them, we may be ſure there is a true church: and yet there may alſo be ſome true church, where they are not. I diſpute not, whether the true Church may be without theſe; but denie, that becauſe theſe, where they are, are good markes, therefore there is no true Church where theſe are wanting. This propoſition, though your proofe be lame without it, you wholy omit, and ſo propound vsus a reaſon which we need not yeeld to, though you were able to proue the minor neuer ſo ſufficiently.

Your minor, as before I anſwered, is true, if we rightly vnderſtand To the Aſſumption.the meaning of thoſe ſeuerall properties. But the proofe you bring is ſcarce warrantable.

All properties of the Church, belonging onelyonly thereto, and apparent This ſyllogiſme is gathered out of the concluſiō of this Chapt. ſect. 7.to be ſeene where they are, are good markes to know the Church by.

But theſe foure properties are ſuch.

Therefore theſe foure are good markes to know the Church by.

There is a third thing omitted by you, neceſſarily required p. 263To the propoſition.to make any propertie a good marke, viz. that it be ſuch as alwayes agrees to the Church. For otherwiſe it can ſerue, as I anſwered to your former propoſition, but only for the halfe dutie of a marke, becauſe at ſome times I may ſee the Church, and not know it for all this marke. If I find theſe properties, I may aſſure my ſelfe that I hauehave found the true Church, becauſe theſe neuer are but in the true Church; yet if the true Church may at any time be without theſe, as it may, for ought contained in your maior, then miſſing my marke, I ſhal be vnable to diſcerne of the true Church.

This minor, for the firſt part of it, is true, in ſuch ſenſe as I To the aſſumption.granted the former: theſe properties rightly vnderſtood, belong onelyonly to the true Church. If the latter part alſo be true, that they are apparent to be ſeene, doubtleſſe truth of doctrine, which maketh the Church one, muſt needs be a certaine marke of the true Church, though you denie it that prerogatiue. Let vsus now ſee how you proue the parts of your minor, with this prouiſo, that though you do proue them, yet you are little the nearer, becauſe diuers former propoſitions, vponupon which this depends, remaine ſtill vnproued by you.

It is a propertie belonging only to the true Church to profeſſe one Proofe of the Aſſumption. Part. 1.and the ſame faith, &c.

But to be one, is to profeſſe one and the ſame faith, &c.

Therefore to be one, is a propertie belonging onelyonly to the true Church.

I denie your maior: profeſſing one and the ſame faith, is not To the propoſition.proper onelyonly to the Church; but common to it, with ſome falſe Churches which hauehave for a long time continued in one and the ſame hereſie, as the Mahometans aboue a thouſand yeares, the Arians aboue 1200. Secondly, if this marke be proper to the Church onelyonly, then as long as heretickes continue in one and the ſame hereſie, I may conclude that they are a true Church. But to make your propoſition true, you muſt ſay inſtead of one and the ſame faith, one and the ſame true faith, which is the marke we ſet vp, to know the true Church by: and the reaſon why the Church is ſaid to be one. There are (ſaith ppTheodoret. ad Pſal. 47.Ps 47Theodoret) infinite and innumerable Churches in the Iſles and in the Continent: but generally p. 264all of them are made one by their agreement in true doctrine. The Church is ſaid to be one (ſaith qqFerus ad Ioa. 10. 16.Ferus) becauſe of the vnitie of faith, hope and charitie.

Your minor alſo is falſe, vnleſſe you adde true, to profeſſe one and the ſame true faith: as the place wherō you ground your large To the Aſſumption.expoſition, might hauehave taught you. For our Sauiour did not pray that his Church might profeſſe one and the ſame faith at aduenture, as if he had not cared what it profeſſed, ſo it alwayes profeſſed the ſame faith; but that it might alwayes profeſſe the true faith, which he deliuered to his Apoſtles, and taught by his ſpirit.

But indeed rrIohn. 17. 20.John 17:20that prayer of our Sauiour was not made for any companie of outward profeſſors, but onelyonly for thoſe, and particularly for eueryevery one of them that attaine to true faith in him. As for the prophane and reprobate, what is it leſſe then blaſphemie, to ſay that our Sauiour prayed that they might be one with him and his Father, as they are one? eſpecially ſince in the ſame chapter hee denieth that he prayeth for the world; verſ. 9. verſ. 20.and namely reſtraineth his prayer to them who by the miniſtery of the word beleeue in him, that is, reſt wholy and onelyonly vponupon him, not onelyonly make profeſſion of beleeuing the Goſpell, which is enough without any inward grace, to make any man a member of your true Church. Thus hauehave I ſpoken of this marke, as you ſhould hauehave propounded your argumēt, according to the courſe of your diſputation. Now that I may leaue nothing of any moment vnanſwered, I will ſpeake to it as it is ſet downe by your ſelfe. The matter you aſſay to proue, is, that the Church is ſignified to be one, or is one. To proue this, you alledge foure ſeuerall places of Scripture. The firſt is this, ſſCantic. 6. 8.Song 6:8My Doue is one. Where by Doue, you vnderſtand the Church: by being one, profeſſing one faith, &c. To this I anſwer, firſt, that it is no good courſe of diſputing, to proue a matter in controuerſie by a place that is figuratiue and allegoricall: becauſe ſuch texts (as ttThom. in Boet. q. 2.Thomas ſaith) affoord no certaine arguments: yea (as uuAuguſt. epiſt. 48 ad Vincen.Auſtin ſaith) it is impudencie for a man to expound any allegory to his purpoſe, vnleſſe he hauehave manifeſt teſtimonies for the clearing of that which is doubtfull. Secondly, this interpretation of yours, is directly contrarie p. 265to Cardinall xxBellar. de eccleſ. milit. lib. 3 cap. 7.Bellarmine, and by him refuted, who makes this Doue to be the ſoule of a Chriſtian in the ſtate of perfectiō, and deliuers it as a certaine ground, that thoſe things in the Canticles which are ſpoken of the Spouſe, are not neceſſary to be vnderstood of the Church, but may alſo be expounded yyPſellus apud Theod. in Cant.of the Ʋirgin Marie, or of eueryevery perfect ſoule. Thirdly, if we take it to be ſpoken of the Church, as it is generally, and (as I am perſwaded) truly expounded; yet doth it not ſignifie any outward companie, but the true Church of Chriſt, the companie of the elect, called to the knowledge and profeſſion of the Goſpell: eueryevery one of which is in his place and meaſure, that perfect ſoule whom the ſpouſe of Chriſt ſo commendeth. Know (ſaith zzOrigen. in Cant. hom. 1.Origen) that the Bridegroome is Chriſt, the Bride the Church, without ſpot or wrinkle; of which it is written, that aaEphoſ. 5. 27.he might make it glorious, &c. And bbHieron. prooem. in Cantic.Ierome, who tranſlated that commentary of Origen, ſaith, that the church ſpoken of in the Canticles, cleaueth and is ioyned to Chriſt aboue the heauens, as being made one ſpirit with him. So doth ccEpiph. haer. 33Epiphanius vnderſtand the place, affirming that the Church is perfect, becauſe ſhe hath receiued from God grace and knowledge of our Sauiour Chriſt by the holy Ghoſt. ddBernard. in Cant. ſer. 98.Bernard, no enemy to your Church, ſaith in plaine termes, that the ſpouſe is the Church of the elect: which is ſaid to be one: becauſe all together are the ſpouſe of Ieſus Chriſt, one chaſt virgin. eeIoan. 10. 16.John 10:16The ſheepfold our Sauiour ſpeaketh of, is the ſame ſpouſe, in reſpect of the ſpirituall feeding, which the ſheepe hauehave in this life from him: or to ſpeake more directly, it ſeemes to be that ſtate of grace, into which the ſhepheard Chriſt leadeth his ſheepe, that they may be folded vp, and ſafe frō all ſpirituall dangers, which might deſtroy them. Once, that he meanes not an outward profeſſion, common to ſheepe with goates, it may appeare by the whole courſe of the Chapter before, wherein all the ſheep of that fold, are not only ſaid to be Chriſts ſheepe, but alſo to heare his voyce, yea ſo to heare it, that they will not hearken to a ſtranger. His ſheepe heare verſ. 4. 5. 8.his voyce (ſaith ffAuguſt. in Ioan. tract. 45.Auſtin) and he cals them by name: for he hath their names writen in the booke of life. Hereupon ſaith gg2. Tim. 2. 19.2 Tim 2:19the Apoſtle, The Lord knoweth who are his. This ſheepfold then is that eſtate into which Chriſt the true Shepheard bringeth his elect, by the p. 266profeſſion of his truth in the viſible Church. If any man had rather apply this text to the outward eſtate of the Churches, I will not ſtriue with him, ſo that withall he remember, firſt that in theſe outward Churches the elect onelyonly are the ſheepe, one with Chriſt their ſhepheard, as members of his myſtical bodie. Secondly, that this one ſheepfold is not to be conſidered in regard of the Churches being one in profeſſion, but in reſpect of the Gentiles admitted to hauehave place in Chriſts myſticall body, as well as the Iewes, all difference betwixt people and people being taken away. In hhRom. 12. 5. 1. Cor. 10. 17.Rom 12:51 Cor 10:17the next two places the church is cōpared to a bodie (note that the compariſon is chiefly of particular Churches, in reſpect of the ſeuerall members thereof) becauſe of the mutuall coniunction and helpe which each part hath with other, and is to affoord to other. So doth iiLomb. Gloſſ. interlin. Lyra, ad Rom. 10. & Catharin. ibi.Rom 10Lombard truly expound it, ſo you Gloſſe, ſo Lyra. If we ſtretch it farther, the chiefe cauſe why the church is one bodie, is aſſigned by Cardinal kkCaietan. ibi.Caietan to be the ſpirit of Christ. For Chriſt (ſaith he) is as the ſoule, giuing life, by the holy Ghoſt, to his whole myſticall bodie. But the holy Ghoſt quickens onelyonly the elect, not the reprobate too. ll1. Cor. 10. 17.1 Cor 10:17In the latter of the two places, mmCaietan. vbi ſupra.the ſame Cardinall expounds that being one, in reſpect of charitie: and nnCatharin. vbi ſupra.Catharin a learned Popiſh Biſhop, vnderſtands this bodie to be the holy Church conſiſting of them that are predeſtinate and called, and iuſtified, and glorified, holy and faithfull. Of the laſt place I ſpake ſufficiently Ioan. 17. 20.John 17:20before. Agreement in the truth, is the marke we looke at.

This you adde to proue, that to profeſſe one and the ſame faith, that is, to be one, is proper to the true church. Your proofe is, that ppTertul de praeſcr. cap. 42.Tertulliā ſaith, that all hereſies, if they be wel looked into, are found to differ in many things from their firſt founders. Tertullian might truly ſay ſo, of al hereſies then known; & yet there may hauehave bin ſome ſince his time, perhaps that hauehave kept alwayes the ſame errors, without any change, worth the ſpeaking of. But (as I noted before) ſince all hereſies for a time hold their firſt errors, continuance in the ſame profeſſion, can be no good marke of the true church, vnles you can ſet downe a certaine number of yeares, during which they muſt continue in one and the ſame faith, or elſe be held for hereticks becauſe of their changing.

p. 267Now in concluſion of this firſt marke, I muſt obſerue a few points for the Readers inſtruction. Firſt I deſire it may be noted, that whereas vnitie is made a principal marke by your writers; they vnderſtand as well vnitie of louelove as of faith: you require but the one of them, and ſo giuegive vsus but halfe a marke. Secondly, let it be obſerued, that this marke is either no marke at all, or all one with ours; ſo that whereas you trouble vsus with more then this, you make it much harder then we do, to find out the true Church. In the third place it would be conſidered what you meane by one and the ſame faith: I preſſe you with your owne argument, qqChap. 14.Continuing in one and the ſame faith, in regard of ſome points only, is no good marke, becauſe heretickes continue in ſome points of truth. Continuing in all points can be no good mark: for it is not only hard, but vnpoſſible for a ſimple vnlearned man to be aſſured that any church hath alwayes continued in profeſſion of one and the ſame faith, in eueryevery point: yea this is infinitely harder, then to diſcerne of all truth, becauſe the one is to be learned out of the Scriptures: the other cannot be known, but by ſearching the records of the church from time to time. Of the one there is certaine knowledge to be had, becauſe the Scriptures are the word of God: of the other, the beſt aſſurance we can hauehave, is but the teſtimonie of men, that might erre by ignorance or partialitie. Whatſoeuer doubts or difficulties you can imagine concerning the falſe tranſlation or miſunderſtanding of the Scriptures, the ſame wil accompanie all the writings of men, touching the doctrine of the Church in all ages. Then let any reaſonable man iudge, whether you or we ſhew them a better marke to know the true Church by.

A. D. §. 4.

The true Church is alſo proued to be holy, by that of S. Paul: The ſecond mark, ſancta. 1. Cor. 3.1 Cor 3Templum Dei ſanctum eſt, quod eſtis vos: The temple of God is holy, which temple you are. By which place notwithſtanding S. Paul did not meane to ſignifie, that eueryevery one of this companie was holy. For a little after in the ſame Epiſtle, he ſaith to the ſame companie: Omnino auditur inter vos fornicatio, & talis fornicatio, qualis 1. Cor. 5.1 Cor 5nec inter gentes: There is plainly heard fornication among you, and ſuch fornication, as the like is not among the heathen. He doth not therefore (I ſay) meane that eueryevery one of the Church is holy, but p. 268that the whole companie is to be termed holy, becauſe the profeſſion thereof doth of it ſelfe wholy tend to holineſſe: the doctrine being ſuch as withdraweth from all vice, and inſtructeth and moueth men to vertue: the Sacraments alſo do not onelyonly ſignifie, but in the vertue which they hauehave from Chriſt his paſſion, they alſo worke in vsus (as inſtrumentall cauſes) true and inward ſanctitie. Wherefore although eueryevery one that is in the Church, be not holy, yet no doubt, alwayes ſome are: the which their holineſſe, it pleaſeth Almightie God to testifie and make knowne ſometime by miracle; and ordinarily he vſeth to make it apparent enough by the light of their vertuous actions, which at all times in many members of the true Church, do ſo ſhine before men, that by it men are moued to glorifie God, and ſometimes to imitate in their owne life that, which in others they admire. And whatſoeuer member of the Church faileth from this holineſſe of life, it is euident that the fault is onelyonly in himſelf, who liueth not according to the preſcript of his profeſſiō, nor vſeth in due ſort thoſe means which it hath of the holy Sacraments, which (as I ſaid before) are effectuall instruments of ſanctification.

Contrariwiſe, no ſect of hereticks is truly holy; neither was there euer any perſon that did inuent, or obſtinatly adhere vntounto any ſect of hereſie, which had in him true ſanctitie. And no maruel, becauſe the very profeſſion and doctrine it ſelfe of eueryevery hereſie, is oppoſite to the very rootes of true ſanctitie; the which rootes be true Chriſtian faith and humilitie. For how can he be truly holy and iuſt, who being poſſeſſed with the ſpirit of hereſie, muſt needs be depriued of true faith, without which the iuſt man cannot liue? according to that ſaying of S. Paul: Iuſtus ex fide viuit. Or how can he be holy, that doth not only Hebr. 10. Mat. 18. 1. Pet. 2.Heb 10Matt 181 Pet 2not humble himſelfe like a little one, ſubmitting himſelfe to eueryevery humane creature, for Gods ſake: but doth proudly oppoſe himſelfe againſt the vniuerſall Church it ſelfe, whom God hath willed and commanded vsus to heare, no otherwiſe then himſelfe? For wanting Luk. 10.Luke 10this humilitie, and conſequently the grace of God, which is denied to the proud, and giuen to the humble, there is no doubt but that howſoeuer Jam. 4.Jas 4ſuch a man ſeemeth in his outward behauiour, he can hauehave no true ſanctitie within him: the which true ſanctitie failing inwardly, it is hard for him to beare himſelfe ſo, but that ſometime or other, by one occaſion or other, he ſhall euen outwardly manifeſt this his p. 269inward want; as in theſe our daies, heretickes commonly do, in ſuch apparent manner, that it is no hard matter to diſcerne, that they be not (as ſome of them would hauehave the Church defined) a companie of Saints.

A. W.

Hauing ſhewed before, that this diſcourſe proceedeth not orderly, as it ſhould, to the proofe of that which is propounded by you, and denied by vsus; I will not ſtand to lay out the fault, in eueryevery particular, but content my ſelfe with hauing done it once for all. It is your purpoſe in this place to prooue that the Church is holy. A labour that might well hauehave bene ſpared: for who euer denied it, or doubted of it? But let me againe put you in minde, that when you hauehave prooued the Church to be holy, you hauehave got nothing: becauſe euerie qualitie of the Church is not by and by a marke▪ whereby it may be knowne. It may be proper to the Church, ſo that it can neuer be found but in the Church, and yet not be alwaies there to be found. It may alſo be true alwaies, and yet not be alwaies viſible. But let vsus ſee your proofe.

The Temple of God is holy.

The Church is the Temple of God.

Therefore the Church is holy.

The holineſſe you meane, as you expound your ſelfe, is true and inward ſanctitie, which you ſay is wrought by the Sacraments. And this indeed is the holineſſe, which onelyonly can make a man a Chriſtian. For (aaThomas opuſ. 6. in expoſ. ſymboli. ſect. Sanctam Eccleſiam. Thomas truly ſaith) He that is not annointed with the grace of the holy Ghoſt, is not a Chriſtian. Hereupon, before I anſwer to your Syllogiſme, I will make it manifeſt, by your owne argument, that holineſſe is no good marke to know the Church by.

Euerie good marke of the Church muſt be eaſier to be knowne, then the Church it ſelfe.

True inward ſanctity is not eaſier to be known, thē the Ch. it ſelfe.

Therefore true inward ſanctitie is no good marke of the Church.

The Maior is yours, in plaine words generally deliuered: rrChap. 13.The ſecond thing required in a good marke is, that it be more apparent, and eaſie to be knowne, then the thing is. The Minor is prooued by theſe words of yours in the ſame place. The ſecret p. 270diſpoſition of a mans heart is harder to be knowne, then the man himſelfe: how then ſhall true inward ſanctitie be eaſier to diſcerne, then the men in whom it is?

If by Temple you vnderſtand the whole company, as you plainly To the propoſition. ſ1. Cor. 3. 17.auouch, and by holineſſe true inward ſanctity, I denie your Maior. Becauſe the whole companie makes not one perſon or ſubſiſtence, wherein onelyonly there is place for ſuch habits or qualities. True inward holineſſe is a qualitie no where reſident, but in ſome ſpeciall ſubſtance, and therefore if the whole companie of the Church, hauehave not a generall ſoule as Auerrois dreamed of the world, it is vnpoſſible it ſhould hauehave true inward holineſſe. It ſhould ſeeme alſo you ſaw as much your ſelfe, and therefore giuegive vsus an other expoſition of the place, that the whole companie is to be termed holy. In this ſenſe you muſt conclude thus.

The Temple of God is to be termed holy.

The Church is the Temple of God.

Therefore the Church is to be termed holy.

But this prooueth not, that the Church is holy. Do you thinke, that the Nicene Councell, when it deliuered it as an article of faith, that we are to beleeue One holy Church, meant nothing, but that the Church was to be termed holy? Yes: they meant to teach vsus, that the true Church is truly holy, being purged from the guilt of ſinne, by the ſacrifice of our Sauiour Ieſus Chriſt, and indued with true habituall righteouſneſſe by the ſpirit of ſanctification. It is a poore marke to know the Church by, to tell vsus, it is a companie that is to be termed holy. What then is the Apoſtles meaning, when he ſaith the Temple of God is holy?

ttChryſoſt. ad 1. Cor. homil. 9. & ibi Ambroſ. &. Theophyl.Many interpreters take this whole paſſage of the Apoſtle, frō the beginning of the 16. verſe, to be a reproofe particularly of the inceſtuous perſon, and generally of all vncleane liuers: and they by Temple vnderſtand ſeuerall Chriſtians, ſanctified by the Spirit of God, who dwelleth in them, and maketh them holy. Thus do uuCyril. Hieroſ. Catech. 4Cyrill, xxIrenae. lib. 5. cap. 6.Irenaeus, and yyCypr. teſtim. ad Quirin. lib. 3. ſect 27.Cyprian apply the place. zzLombard. Thom. Lyra. Caietan. Catharin. ad hunc locum.Other, whoſe iudgement in this text I rather follow, thinke that the Apoſtle in theſe verſes continueth his former p. 271diſcourſe, concerning the miniſterie of the word, diuerſly vſed by diuers teachers: ſome building vponupon the foundation gold, ſiluer, and pretious ſtones; other laying on it timber, hay, or ſtubble. A third kind deſtroying the foundation by falſe doctrine, of whom the Apoſtle here ſpeaketh, threatning them deſtruction, becauſe they deſtroy the Temple of God. The reaſon whereof aaCatharin. ibi.one of them giues in theſe words, The Temple of God is holy. To defile that which is holy (ſaith Catharin) deſerueth deſtruction euen among the heathen. For if any man hurt the walles of the Citie, which the heathen accounted holy, he was to die for it. Now if this law were executed for the prophaning of walles, and temples made with hands, how much more ought the deſtroying of Chriſtians, who by faith and louelove hauehave receiued the Lord Ieſus, be ſo ſeuerely puniſhed? Euen ſo much more (ſaith bbLyra. ibi.Lyra) as ſpirituall things are to be preferred before corporall. By the Temple of God then, the Apoſtle meaneth the congregations or Churches of profeſſed Chriſtians, ſuch as that of Corinth was. Theſe (he ſaith) are holy: that is, either conſecrated to the worſhip of God, which is the profeſſed end of Chriſtian aſſemblies: or truly holy, in regard that they make profeſſion, and ſo in charitie are to be taken (but where the contrary euidently appeareth) of being iuſtified and ſanctified by the death and reſurrection of Ieſus Chriſt. You giuegive two other reaſons of their being termed holy; the one that the profeſſion of religion, of itſelfe, wholy tendeth to holineſſe. How can this be a good mark to know the true Church by, when eueryevery company wil ſay, their doctrine hath the ſame end, and he that will beleeue it of any company, muſt know and be able to iudge of eueryevery point they maintaine? Your ſecond is, that the Sacraments worke in vsus (as inſtrumentall cauſes) true and inward ſanctitie. I will not enter into the queſtion about the Sacraments, what or how they worke: it is nothing to the purpoſe. But to the point: what hereticall Church will not, or may not ſay the like? whether truly or falſely it skils not: becauſe that will aske a new examination, ſuch as euerie one that muſt know the Church, cannot make. Therefore this marke of holineſſe is not a good marke, to know the true p. 272Church by, being inward and claimed by all companies of Chriſtians.

Not onelyonly ſome, but all the members of the true Church of Chriſt, are inwardly and outwardly holy, being purged by his bloud and ſpirit. And this their holineſſe is ſo manifeſt ordinarily, that there need none of your counterfeit miracles for the countenancing thereof: eſpecially ſince God neuer tooke that courſe in his Church, to approoue any mans holineſſe, by the gift of miracles, the vſe whereof is to confirme doctrine, when need requireth: neither can any man from miracles conclude, that he which worketh them, is inwardly truly ſanctified. ccMat. 10. 8.Matt 10:8Was not Iudas one of them, to whom power was giuen euen ouer the diuels? Yet was he ddIoan. 12. 6.John 12:6a thiefe, eeLuc. 22. 48.Luke 22:48a traitor, and ffIoan. 6. 70.John 6:70a diuell. Many wil ſay vntounto me in that day (ſaith ggMat. 7. 22. 23Matt 7:22Matt 7:23our Sauiour) Lord, hauehave we not by thy name prophecied, and by thy name caſt out diuels, and by thy name done many great workes? And then will I profeſſe to them, I neuer knew you, depart from me, ye that worke iniquitie.

But it is ſtrange that you ſhould make true inward ſanctitie, the marke of the true Church, and ſo confidently affirme, that no doubt in the Church there are alwaies ſome holy: when as you maintaine, that hhBellar. de Eccleſ. mil. lib. 3. cap. 10.it is enough to make a man a true member of the true Church, that he profeſſe outwardly, though he hauehave no one vertue within him at all. If all the members of the Church may be void of holineſſe, how is holineſſe a good marke of the Church? Certainly it is (at the moſt) but accidentall, and ſuch as the Church may hauehave, or lacke, without being, or ceaſing to be a Church thereby. He is well holpe vp no doubt, that muſt learne how to know the true Church, of ſuch teachers.

You hauehave prooued after your faſhion, that the Church is holy; now you will prooue, that no companie, but the Church is holy.

No ſect of heretickes is truly holy.

All companies of Chriſtians (beſides that of the true Church) are ſects of hereticks.

Therefore no companie of Chriſtians (beſides that of the true Church) is truly holy.

p. 273If by hereticks you vnderſtand onelyonly thoſe, that erre in ſome To the propoſition.fundamentall points of religion: I grant your Maior, and Minor. As for the concluſion, I am reſolued of the truth thereof, without any proofe from you. But if you acount all hereticks, who in the error of their iudgement, diſſent from other Churches of Chriſt, in matters not fundamentall, though true, I denie your ſaid Maior: and affirme, that diuers Churches may differ in opinion one from another, and continue in that difference, & maintaine it confidently, ſo they do it not againſt their knowledge and conſcience; and yet all of them be true Churches of Chriſt, and truly holy. For as long as the opinions a man holds, do not cut him off, from being a true member of the myſticall bodie of Ieſus Chriſt, they make him not ceaſe to be a true Chriſtian, truly iuſtified and ſanctified. But he that beleeueth truly in Ieſus Chriſt, and holds no fundamentall error, continues by faith a member of our Sauiours myſticall bodie. For as the iuſt liues by faith, ſo whereſoeuer there is true faith, there is life alſo: but, there is no life out of the bodie of Chriſt, becauſe the ſpirit of Chriſt is not to be had, but in his bodie. And therefore he that by faith remaineth a member of Chriſts bodie, is a true Chriſtian, truly iuſtified and ſanctified, though not perfectly holy.

Here we hauehave the proofe of your Maior, ſuch as it is.

If the doctrine it ſelfe of euerie hereſie be oppoſite to true Chriſtian Proofe of the propoſition.faith, and humilitie, the rootes of true ſanctitie; then no ſect of hereſies is truly holy.

But the doctrine it ſelfe of euerie hereſie is oppoſite to true Chriſtian faith and humilitie, the roots of true ſanctitie.

Therefore no ſect of hereticks is truly holy.

If by true Chriſtian faith, you meane any particular truth (as To the propoſition.a Chriſtian ought to beleeue euerie truth of God, though not ſo, as that ignorance, or misbeleeuing of euerie point can make him ceaſe to be a true Chriſtian) I denie the conſequence of your Maior.

I denie your Minor: Not euerie hereſie, but that which is againſt the foundation onelyonly, is oppoſite to true Chriſtian faith & humility, To the Aſſumption.vnderſtanding by Chriſtian faith, ſuch a faith as is neceſſarily p. 274required, that a man may be a true Chriſtian, by which onelyonly he liues: not by beleeuing euerie truth, though that be required of him, as a dutie of ſanctification. And ſo your proofe alſo is anſwered. A man may hauehave that faith, by which a Chriſtian muſt liue, though he be ignorant, or miſinſtructed in diuers points of doctrine.

I hauehave ſeuered this part concerning humilitie from the former, becauſe it ſeemeth you tooke it to be of more importance, and therefore labour more in the proofe of it.

He that doth not humble himſelfe to euerie humane creature for Gods ſake, but proudly oppoſeth himſelfe against the vniuerſall Church, cannot be holy.

But no hereticke doth ſo humble himſelfe, and euerie hereticke ſo oppoſe.

Therefore no hereticke can be holy.

I ſhewed before, that there is no ſuch vniuerſall Church, as you often name, but neuer prooue: and therefore this argument To the propoſition.grounded vponupon oppoſing againſt that which is not, in regard of ſuch a commaundement, as God neuer gaue, is idle and vaine. More particularly I anſwer concerning your Maior: that although pride be alwaies a ſinne, yet it may ſometimes be found in in a man truly ſanctified, & that in oppoſition againſt men in a matter of doctrine. But your propoſition in regard of the former part of it, as you vnderſtand it, is vtterly falſe. For it is (no way) againſt holineſſe, for a man not to beleeue eueryevery doctrine that men will propound. iiGal. 18.If I or an Angell from Heauen preach any otherwiſe to you, then we hauehave preached, let him be accurſed. kk1. Ioan. 4. 1.1 John 4:1Trie the ſpirits, whether they be of God or no. As for that place of the Apoſtle which you alledge, your owne interpreters expound it, not of the Church, but of the ciuill Magiſtrate. He cals the office of a King, a humane creature (ſaith llCaietan. ad 1. Pet. 2. 13. 141 Pet 2:131 Pet 2:14Caietan) becauſe a King is created by the voices, or conſent of men: and he addeth eueryevery, that he might take away all diſtinction betwixt Heathen and Chriſtian kings, in reſpect of obedience to them. mmRhem. Teſt. ad 1. Pet. 2. 13. 14.1 Pet 2:131 Pet 2:14The Rhemiſts are yet more againſt you. So he calleth the temporall magiſtrate (ſay they) elected by the people, or holding their ſoueraigntie by birth and carnall propagation, ordained for the p. 275Worldly wealth, power, and proſperitie of the ſubiect, to put a difference (directly againſt your interpretation) betwixt the humane ſuperioritie, and the ſpirituall Rulers, and regiment, guiding and gouerning the people to a higher end. But what need we any other expoſitor, ſince nn1. Pet. 2. 13 14.1 Pet 2:13the Apoſtle in the next words, directeth vsus how to vnderſtand it? Whether it be vntounto the King, as vntounto the ſuperiour, or vntounto gouernours, as vntounto them that are ſent of him, ooRom. 13. 3. 4.Rom 13:3Rom 13:4for the puniſhment of euill doers, and for the praiſe of them that do well. But let vsus take it as generally as you will, if it be againſt humilitie, not to be ſubiect to the Church, it is alſo againſt it, not to be ſubiect to the King. Yet I hope no man is ſo mad, as to ſay, that he refuſeth to be ſubiect to him, that doth not abſolutely obey him in all things. How then can this place proue, that it is againſt true Chriſtian humilitie, not to beleeue the Church, whatſoeuer ſhe propound to be beleeued?

None but hereticks do ſo humble themſelues; and many To the aſſumption.diſſenting from their brethren in diuers opinions, neither deſerue to be counted hereticks, though they cannot be reclaimed from their errors, nor to be held for ſchiſmaticks, as long Thomas. 2. 2. q. 39. art. 1.as they breake not off communion with thē, which yet may be done by ignorance, without pride.

If many heathen men hauehave ſo demeaned themſelues, as that they could hardly, or not at all be charged with any groſſe outward fault, doubtleſſe it is poſſible for hereticks to do the like. At the leaſt, what a gay marke of the Church is this holineſſe, which (for a long time) may be, for ought men can diſcerne, in an hereticke: who, all that while, may be taken for a true Chriſtian? Beſides, if truth of religion be to be iudged of by holineſſe of conuerſation, as a certaine marke (for that within cannot otherwiſe be ſeene) why may not a man change his conceit of anie religion, when he ſeeth any notable profeſſor thereof fall into any grieuous ſinne, as pp2. Sam. 12. 9.2 Sam 12:9Dauid, and qqMat. 26. 70.Matt 26:70Peter did?

As for vsus, whom you terme hereticks at your pleaſure, if our worſt Proteſtants be not farre paſt in villanie by your Papiſts, for treaſons, murthers, and generally all kinde of vncleanneſſe; I will confeſſe, that you liue better then the grounds of your p. 276religion require, and we worſe then ours. But I leaue this point till I come to examine your Aſſumption, concerning the holineſſe of your Church of Rome.

A. D. §. 5.

The true Church is prooued alſo to be Catholicke, that is to The third marke. Catholica. Iſay. cap. 59.Isa 59ſay, vniuerſall; firſt, in time, by moſt plaine prophecies and promiſes of the Scripture, as I hauehave alreadie ſhewed in the eleuenth chapter; vntounto which here I will onelyonly adde thoſe words of Iſaias: Hoc foedus meum cum eis dicit Dominus: Spiritus meus qui eſt in te, & verba, quae poſui in ore tuo; non recedent de ore tuo, & de ore ſeminis tui, & de ore ſeminis ſeminis tui, dicit Dominus amodò vſque in ſempiternum: This is my couenant with them, ſaith our Lord: my Spirit which is in thee, and my words which I hauehave put in thy mouth, ſhall not depart from thy mouth, and from the mouth of thy ſeed, and from the mouth of the ſeed of thy ſeed, ſaith our Lord, from henceforth for euer.

It may alſo be eaſily prooued to be vniuerſall in reſpect of place, by theſe plaine teſtimonies of holy Scripture. Conuertentur ad Dominum vniuerſi fines terrae, all the bounds of the earth ſhall be Pſalm. 21. Pſalm. 71.Ps 21Ps 71conuerted to our Lord. Dominabitur à mari vſus que ad mare, & à flumine vſus que ad terminos orbis terrarum. He (to wit Chriſt) ſhall rule and hauehave dominion from ſea to ſea, and from the flood, vntil the furthermoſt limits of the earth. Omnes gentes ſeruient ei. All nations ſhall ſerue him. VponUpon all which places and ſome other, ſee Saint Ibidem.Auſtin in his expoſition of the Pſalmes; and among other things, which he ſpeaketh to the purpoſe, note his interpretation of thoſe words à flumine vſque ad terminos orbis terrarū. Which words (ſaith he) do ſignifie, that the dominion of Chriſt began à flumine Iordano, from the floud of lordan, where he, being baptiſed, was made manifeſt, by the deſcending of the holy Ghoſt, & the ſound of his Fathers voice: from whence he began to chuſe his Diſciples: & from Aug. in Pſa. 71Ps 71hence (ſaith he) Doctrina eius incipiens dilatatur vſus que ad terminos orbis terrae, cū praedicatur Euāgeliū regni in vniuerſo orbe, in teſtimoniū omnibus gentibus, & tunc veniet finis. His doctrine beginning is dilated or ſpread abroad, vntounto the furtheſt parts of the earth, when the Goſpell of the kingdome is preached ouer the whole world, for a teſtimony to all nations, after which done, the end (of the world) ſhall come. See alſo the ſame S. Auſtin in his booke de vnitate p. 277Eccleſiae, eſpecially in the ninth & tenth chapters, where he eiteth & vrgeth that place of S. Luke, where our Sauiour ſaith, Neceſſe eſt Luc. 24.Luke 24impleri omnia quae ſcripta ſunt in lege, Prophetis & Pſalmis de me, &c. quoniā ſic ſcriptum eſt, & ſic oportebat Chriſtum pati & reſurgere à mortuis, & praedicari in nomine eius poenitentiā & remiſſionem peccatorū in omnes gentes, incipientibus ab Ieroſolyma: It is needfull that all things ſhould be fulfilled which are written of me in the Law, the Prophets and Pſalmes, &c. for ſo it is writtē, and ſo it was needfull that Chriſt ſhould ſuffer, and riſe again from the dead the third day, and that penance and remiſſion of ſinnes ſhould be preached in his name throughout all nations, beginning frō Ieruſalem. By which place, and diuers others, he ſheweth plainly, that the true Church of Christ cannot be contained in a corner of the world, but muſt be vniuerſall, that is, diffuſed and ſpread throughout the whole world: as the ſame S. Auſtin, beſide his other proofes, gathered out of the very name Catholica, the which name (ſaith he) was impoſed on the Church by our forefathers, vt ex ipſo nomine Aug. l de vnit. Eccleſie.oſtenderent quia per totum eſt, ſecundum totum enim Catholon Graecè dicitur: that by the very name they might ſhew that the Church is throughout the whole world. For (ſaith he) the word Catholon in Greeke (wherupon Catholik is deriued) ſignifieth a thing which is generall or agreeing to the while.

But we must note here, that when we ſay the true Church is Catholick or diffuſed throughout the whole world, it is meant, that at least by ſucceſſion of time it hath bene, or ſhall be dilated more and more in eueryevery nation, till it hauehave gone throughout the whole world. Moreouer it is termed Catholicke, not onelyonly becauſe it ſhal be ſpred ouer the whole world in proceſſe of time, but alſo becauſe euen in eueryevery age it hath bin, and ſhall be alwayes in very many nations: and indeed in eueryevery natiō, where any Chriſtiā religiō is; which is in a ſort to be ſpread ouer the whole world. This doth S. Auſtin in his booke de vnitate Eccleſiae, moſt diligently proue out of the Scriptures themſelues. The effect of his argument is this: The Church muſt be ſuch as it is deſcribed in Scripture. But in Scripture it is deſcribed to begin at Ieruſalem, and to proceed into all Iewrie, and to go forward Act. 1.Acts 1into Samaria: and to ſtretch it ſelfe further and further, vſque ad vltimum terrae, euen vntounto the vttermost of the earth. p. 278And (ſaith he) the ſeed of the Gospell once ſowne in the field of the world, fructificat & creſcit, doth (not vniuerſally or for the moſt part Coloſſ. 1.Col 1periſh, but) fructifie and grow or increaſe, in omni mundo, in the whole world, and doth continue to grow or increaſe, vſque ad meſſē, vntill the harueſt of the conſummation of the world, as our Sauiour Math. 13.Matt 13ſignifieth: the which conſummation will be when this ſeed is come to the full growth: praedicabitur Euangelium in vniuerſo mundo, Math. 24.Matt 24in teſtimonium omnibus gentibus, (ſaith our Sauiour) & tune veniet conſummatio, the Gospell ſhall be preached in the whole world, for a teſtimonie to all nations, and then the conſummation ſhal come. This is S. Auſtins diſcourſe, by which he proueth that the true Church of Chriſt is not contained in a corner of the world, but muſt be dilated and ſpread in a ſort ouer the whole world.

On the contrary ſide, the congregation of hereticks is not Catholicke, neither in time nor place. And firſt for time, it is euident, becauſe true doctrine was firſt preached and beleeued, as the good ſeed was firſt ſowne in the field, and afterward the cockle, that is falſe doctrine, was ouer ſowed. Saint Paul did for three yeares ſpace teach the Epheſians the true doctrine of faith, and had conuerſed among them like a lambe, ſeruiens Domino cum omni humilitate, ſeruing our Lord with all humilitie: but after his departure, he ſaid, Act. 20.Acts 20he knew that rauenous wolues would enter in among them, not sparing the flocke; and that euen out of their owne company, there would ariſe viriloquentes peruerſa, vt abducant diſcipulos poſt ſe, men ſpeaking peruerſe things, that they may leade away diſciples after Ibidem.themſelues. And as this happened at Epheſus, ſo doubtleſſe in all other places, where there hath bin any alteration of Chriſtian doctrine; firſt the true faith was planted by ſome Apoſtle or Apoſtolicke man, and afterward the contrary was brought in by ſome ſpeaking peruerſe things, thereby leading away diſciples after themſelues. So that it is certaine, that no hereſie is ſo auncient as the true faith: neither is any one of them of ſo long continuance for the time to come, as S. Paul ſignified, when hauing deſcribed heretickes of the latter dayes, he addeth, ſed vltra non proficient, inſipientia enim eorū manifeſta erit omnibus: but they ſhall proſper no further, for their 2. Tim. 3.2 Tim 3folly ſhall be manifeſt to all. The ſame doth S. Auſtin aptly expreſſe, expounding thoſe words of the Pſalme: Ad nihilum deuenient tanquam p. 279Aug. in pſal. 57aqua decurrens. Non vos terreant fratres (ſaith he) quidam fluuij qui dicuntur torrentes; hyemalibus aquis implentur, nolite timere, poſt paululum tranſit, decurrit aqua, ad tempus perſtrepit, mox ceſſabit, diu ſtare non poſſunt. Multae haereſes, iam emortuae ſunt, &c. My brethren, let not certaine floods called land-brookes terrifie you; they are filled with winter waters, feare them not, after a while the water doth paſſe and runne downe, for a time it maketh a noiſe, but it will ceaſe by and by, thoſe flouds cannot ſtand long. Many hereſies are now already dead, &c. Now if we will hauehave reſpect of place, it is certaine that no hereſie is by proceſſe of time to ſpread it ſelfe abſolutely ouer the whole world, as I hauehave proued that the true Church ſhall do, and the reaſon hereof may be aſſigned, becauſe as S. Auſtin ſaith, diu ſtare non poſſunt, they cannot continue ſo long, as were needfull to get them ſo vniuerſally ſpred ouer the whole world; eſpecially conſidering that as S. Paul ſaith, when they hauehave continued a while, Inſipientia earum manifeſta fit 2. Tim. 3.2 Tim 3omnibus, their fooliſhneſſe is made manifeſt to all, and ſo no maruel, ſi vltra non proficiant, if they proſper not, nor make no further progreſſe. Neither ordinarily in any one age is hereſie ſo vniuerſall in place as the true Catholick religiō, but for the moſt part it is cōtained in one or two countries, as it were in a corner of the world. So that of hereticks we may wel ſay, as S. Auſtin doth, that they are thoſe which ſay, Ecce hic eſt Chriſtus, ecce illic, Behold Chriſt is here, behold Aug. l. de Vnit. Eccleſ. cap. 3.Eccl 3he is there, (that is to ſay, the true doctrine of Christ is onelyonly truly preached in this countrey or that countrey) of which kind of people our Sauiour giueth vsus warning, and biddeth vsus, ſaying, nolite credere, Mat. 24.Matt 24beleeue them not. We may wel ſay alſo of theſe, as the ſame S. Auſtin doth, Quaecunque congregatio cuiuſlibet haereſis in angulis Auguſt. l. de. Symb. cap. 10.ſedet, concubina eſt, non matrona: Whatſoeuer congregation of what hereſie ſoeuer ſitteth in corners (that is to ſay, is but in few prouinces, and in the reſt of the Chriſtian world, either is not at al, or at the leaſt is not manifeſtly knowne to be) is a concubine, not a matron, to wit it is not the ſpouſe of Chriſt, nor the lawfull mother of the children of God. Wherefore ſith there is this difference betwixt hereſie and true Chriſtian religion, that as the ſame Saint Auſtin ſaith, Singulae haereſes in multis gentibus vbi Eccleſia eſt, non inueniuntur: Eccleſia autem, quae vbique eſt, etiam vbi illae ſunt, p. 280Aug. l. de Vnit. Eccleſ. cap. 3.Eccl 3inuenitur: Hereſies are not found in many nations where the church is: but the Church, which is eueryevery where, is found in thoſe nations where hereſies are. This difference (I ſay) being betwixt hereſie and the true religion, we need not doubt, but that to be Catholicke, or vniuerſally receiued in the Christian world, especially at all times, is a note of the truth: And that therfore the companie which profeſſeth the faith, which at all times, and in a ſort, in all places, hath bin receiued of Chriſtians, is vndoubtedly the true Church of Chriſt.

A. W.

What if the true Church be proued to be Catholicke, will it follow therupon, that therfore it is alwayes Catholick: ſo that a man cannot know which is the true Church, but by knowing which Church is Catholick? For ſuch muſt eueryevery good mark be, proper to, and al times preſent with that wherof it is a mark. But let vsus ſee a little better, what Catholickneſſe this is, which you deliuer for a marke of the Church.

If you meane by the name Catholicke, as if that were the true Church, which cals it ſelfe the Catholicke Church, what is more eaſie then for any falſe church to take vntounto it ſelfe that name? Did not Theudas and Iudas profeſſe themſelues rrAct. 5. 36. 37.Acts 5:36Acts 5:37to be the Meſſiah? Hath not ſſMat. 24. 24.Matt 24:24our Sauiour forewarned vsus, that there ſhould ariſe falſe Chriſts and falſe Prophets? Yea the Donatiſts, who ſhut vp the church in a corner of Africa, were not aſhamed to call themſelues the Catholicke Church. And (as ttAug. epiſt. 48. ad Vincent. & contr. epiſt. fundam. cap. 4.Auſtin ſaith) All hereticks would be called Catholicks.

If you vrge the thing ſignified by the name: firſt, not one of your Papiſts among a thouſand, vnderſtands what this word Catholicke meanes; but onelyonly that it is the name of eueryevery one that holdeth of the Church of Rome. Secondly, if by Catholick Church, you meane ſuch a church as hath bin euer ſince the comming of our Sauiour Chriſt, and ſhall be at all times, and ouer all the world (as you expound your ſelfe:) how can it be a good marke of the true Church, when as it is an impoſſibilitie, that eueryevery man ſhould be able to ſearch and know, which church hath alwayes bin, which hath not: which hath bin eueryevery where, which onelyonly in ſome places? and much more vnpoſſible is it (if there be degrees of impoſſibilitie) that eueryevery either learned or vnlearned man ſhold certainly know, which church ſhal p. 281alwayes continue, till the end of the world. A man may finde in the Scriptures, that the true Church of Chriſt ſhal neuer faile: but which outward companie of men is this true Church, no man by this marke of future continuance can by any meanes diſcerne. Wherupon I conclude, that your Catholickneſſe is neither for the name, nor for the thing, any good marke of any true Church whatſoeuer.

That by Catholickneſſe vniuerſalitie of time ſhould be ſignified, you preſume, but proue not: and yet I am perſwaded, you are not able to alledge any one ancient author but late Papiſts, that by the Catholicke Church vnderſtands a companie that hath bin alwayes ſince the beginning of the Chriſtian Church, and ſhall alwayes continue till the ſecond comming of our Sauiour Chriſt. I doubt not that the true Church ſpoken of in the Scripture, and the creed, hath ſo bin, and ſhall be: but I ſay that no man conceiues this propertie to be ſignified by the word Catholicke. The ground of my opinion is, that hauing found diuers reaſons alledged by the Fathers, why the Church is ſaid to be Catholicke, I could neuer light vponupon that, concerning the time. uuAug. de Gen. ad lit. cap 1. Epiſt. 170. ad Seuer in.Auſtin ordinarily reſtraines Catholicknes to place: as alſo xxOptat. contra Parmen. lib. 2.Optatus doth. yyPacian. ad Sympr. epiſt. 1.Pacianus where he purpoſely enquires the reaſon of the name, neuer once mentions it: no more doth zzCyril. Hiero. catech. 18.Cyril, who yet aſſignes ſixe ſeuerall reſpects, in which the Church may be ſaid to be Catholicke. And ſurely, if by Catholickneſſe, vniuerſalitie of time be ſignified, I ſee no reaſon, neither (I thinke) can you ſhew me any, why it ſhould not as well include the time before our Sauiours comming, and ſo the Church of God that then was, as that which hath bin ſince his comming, and ſhall continue till the end of the world. So doth Thomas vnderſtand Thom. in expoſ. Symb. §. Sanct. Eccleſ.the Catholickneſſe of the Church, ſtretching it from Abels time to the end of the world. But your great maiſter aaBellar. de Eccleſ milit. li. 3. cap. 16.Bellarmine vtterly denies that the Church before our Sauiours comming was Catholicke, reſtraining this Catholickneſſe to the Church of the Chriſtians. But becauſe I acknowledge the truth of the doctrine, I will not ſtriue about the word, though you ſhould hauehave prooued the ſenſe of the word, and not hauehave giuen too much credit to Bellarmine, who brings a place of bbAuguſt. de vnit. Eccleſ. c. 6. apud Bellar. de Eccl. milit. li. 4 cap. 7 §. Sunt autom.Eccl 6Auſtin to prooue p. 282that vniuerſalitie of time is required to make the Church Catholicke; whereas there is not a ſyllable or a letter touching that matter in the place alledged. No more is there in that other place of Bede, (which alſo he brings) but rather we may proue thence, that Catholicke belongeth to place. It is therefore Beda expoſit. in Cant. lib. 5. ad cap. 6.called Catholicke (ſaith Bede) becauſe it is edified in one and the ſame faith, ouer all parts of the world. In the ſentence next before, he ſpeaketh thus: Whence the Church is called Catholicke, hee teacheth, ſaying, All the Churches through all Iewry, Galilee and Samaria had peace. So doth your Canon expound Catholicke: Diſt. 11. cap. Catholica. Durand. in rat. diuin. offic. li. 1 cap. 1. nu. 2.ſo Durand, though he adde alſo two other reaſons of the name: but not that you bring,

As for ccIſa. 59. 21.Isa 59:21the place you quote to prooue a needleſſe queſtion, what doth it concerne the viſible Church, being ſpoken (as ddHieron. ad Iſay. li. 16. c. 59.Isa 51:16Ierome ſheweth at large, and prooueth out of eeRom. 11. 26.Rom 11:26the Apoſtle) of the Church of the elect Iewes, or (at the moſt) of the elect in generall.

Before I examine that which you hauehave here deliuered, touching the Catholicknes of the Church in reſpect of place, I hold it very needfull to conſider what was intended by the name Catholicke, and how it hath bin vnderſtood of auncient writers. And becauſe this latter point may be a meanes to giuegive vsus ſome light for the diſcerning of the former, I will begin with it in the firſt place. Whether the word were in vſe in the time of the Apoſtles or no, ſo that any man was called a Catholicke, ffPacian. ad Sympro. epiſt. 1: de Cathol. nom.Pacianus ſeems to ſtand in ſome doubt; yet he lets it paſſe as granted, that no man was then ſo called. Once it is out of all doubt, that it is no where in the Scriptures applied to any church, or to any man, or at all vſed. As for the title Catholicke giuen to the Epiſtles of Iames, Peter, the firſt of Iohn, and Iude, it came not from the holy Ghoſt the inditer of thoſe Epiſtles, but was added afterwards by ſome man, when the bookes of the new Teſtament were gathered together into one volume: which may better appeare by the titles of the other Epiſtles alſo, foreign, &c. of Saint or holy Paul: which inſcription queſtionleſſe neuer was of the Apoſtles owne ſetting downe. That which I would hauehave obſerued, is, that this name Catholicke was deuiſed and applied p. 283to the Church not by God in the Scriptures, but by man: and therefore it is of leſſe importance, and more vncertaintie; yet no doubt, not giuen at aduenture, but vponupon good ground, and to good purpoſe. For the original of it, it is Greeke, foreign of foreign, through the whole, or all: which we commonly call by two Latin names, vniuerſall or generall: ſo that the Catholicke Church, and the generall or vniuerſall Church are all one. To auow the antiquitie of this title giuen to the church, the confeſſion of faith, which is commonly called the Apoſtles creede, may be alledged; wherin we profeſſe that we beleeue the holy Catholick Church. That this creed is very ancient, it is out of queſtion; but that it was penned or indited by the Apoſtles themſelues, we hauehave no certaine proofe. But to leaue this point, and to returne again to the meaning of the words Catholick Church: the auncienteſt authors in whom I finde them (for they are not in Dionyſius, Ignatius, Martialis, Polycarpus, nor in Iuſtine, Irenaeus, Tertullian, Origen, or any man within the firſt 200. years) are aaClem. Alexan Strō. li. 7. anno 200.Clemens Alexandr. about the yeare 200. and bbAnno 250.Cyprian about the yeare 250. After them it grew very common, eſpecially in the Latin Church. Cyprian himſelfe hath not (that I know of) any where deliuered the reaſon of that title Catholick. But ccPacian. de Cathol. nom. vbi. ſupra. Anno 380.Pacianus Biſhop of Barcelona in Spaine, purpoſely diſputeth the queſtion againſt Symproniā a Nouatian heretick, aſſigning two reaſons of the name, in this ſort: If (ſaith he) I muſt giuegive a reaſon of the word Catholicke, and expreſſe the Greeke in Latine, Catholicke is eueryevery where one; or (as the learneder thinke) obedience to all Gods commmandements: ſo that by his interpretation the Catholicke Church muſt be the company of them who in all places, here and there, profeſſe one faith, and liue in obedience to all the commandements of God. This vnitie of true faith ddCod. de ſum. Trin. c…nctos populos. Anno 372.the Emperors reſpected, Valentinian, Gratian and Theodoſius, when they commanded that all they ſhould be called Catholicks, who follow the faith that S. Peter deliuered to the Church of Rome. To this purpoſe is that of eeCyril. Hier. catech. 18.Cyril, where he ſaith: The Church is called Catholicke, becauſe it teacheth all things neceſſary to be knowne. This interpretation of the word, and reaſon of the title, ffAuguſt. ad Ʋincen. epi. 48. Breuic. collat. 3 diei. cap. 2.the Donatiſts gaue, ſaying that the Church was not termed p. 284Catholicke, becauſe of the communion that one Church hath with another, throughout the whole world, but becauſe it obſerueth all the commandements and ſacraments of God. To make ſhort, the reaſon of the title Catholicke attributed to the Church, in the iudgement both of Greek and Latin writers, is, firſt the vniuerſall diſperſion of the church through all part, of the world. The Church (ſaith ggCyril. Hiero. catech. 18.Cyril of Ieruſalem) is Catholick, becauſe it is ſpred all ouer the world. It is called Catholicke (ſaith hhAuguſt. ad Se uerin. epiſt. 170.Auſtin) becauſe it is diſperſed through the whole world. See brethren (quoth iiAug. ad Pſal. 65.Ps 65the ſame Auſtin in another place) how the vniuerſality of the Church ſpred ouer the whole world is commended. The Church (ſaith kkAuguſt. de Gene. ad lit. cap. 1.he) is called Catholick, becauſe it is vniuerſally perfect, and failes in nothing, and is ſpred ouer the whole world. Where, though he ſeeme to acknowledge the Donatiſts interpretation, yet he addes the other as more principall. And in llAuguſ. Breuic. collat. 3. diei. cap. 2.the conference betwixt the Catholiks and Donatiſts, the true Chriſtians proued themſelues to be Catholicks, and ſo rightly called, becauſe they held communion with the Church ſpred ouer the face of the earth. This is that vnitie which accordingly was implied in the title of the Catholick Church, ſignifying an agreement in matters of faith, which was betwixt the ſeueral true Churches in all places. Hitherto may we reaſonably refer that of Pacianus, who ſaith that mmPacian. vbi. ſupra.Catholicke is eueryevery where one. The vnitie is ſignified, in that ſo many ſeuerall congregations make but one church, in regard of that one faith which is cōmon to all: the vniuerſalneſſe of this church in the particular aſſemblies, is noted to vsus by the word Catholik. The Fathers in the Nicene councell thought good to expreſſe that vnitie by profeſſing to beleeue one Church, to which they added alſo Catholicke. So ſaith nnAlexander in ep. ad Alexand. Conſtant. epiſc. apud Theodor. hiſt. eccl. l. 1 c. 4.Alexander Patriarch of Alexandria, who was in the time of that Councell: We acknowledge one onelyonly Catholicke and Apostolicke Church. So ooTheod. ad Pſal. 47.Ps 47Theodoret afterward: There is one Church ſcattered ouer ſea and land, wherefore we pray, ſaying, For the holy and onelyonly Catholicke and Apoſtolicke Church. And in another place: Paul (ſaith ppTheod. in Cant. lib. 3. ad cap. 6.he) nameth many churches, not by any diuiſion of ſpirit, but ſeuered by diſtance of place. It appeareth then, that by Catholicknes, the vniuerſalneſſe of the Churches being in all places is ſignified. But what was the reaſon p. 285why this title was added to the church? In all likelihood it was firſt deuiſed and applied to the Church, to ſignifie the breach of the partition wall, which ſometimes ſtood betwixt the Iewes and Gentils, till by our Sauiours death it was caſt downe. This I ſpeake vponupon this ſuppoſition, that the word Catholicke was as ancient in the Church, as the time of the Apoſtles. But if it were brought in afterward (as I could eaſily perſwade my ſelf, but for reuerence of other mens iudgments) we may verie wel aſſent to qqPacian. vbi ſupra.Pacianus, who writes of it in this maner. When after the Apoſtles times, hereſies ſprung vp, and men wēt about to pul in peeces the doue of God, that ſame Queen the Church, by diuerſity of names (as eueryevery ſeueral hereſie had a proper name:) did not the Apoſtolicke people (they that followed the doctrine of the Apoſtles) require a ſirname for themſelues, whereby they might make difference of ſuch as remained vncorrupted (with hereſie,) leſt the error of ſome ſhould rent in peeces the vnſpotted virgin of God? Was it not meet that the principall head (the true Church) ſhould hauehave a proper name to be knowne by? It appeareth by theſe words, that the reaſon of the name Catholick was, at the firſt, that there might be a title, to diſtinguiſh ſound Chriſtians, and true Churches, from hereticks, & hereticall aſſemblies. To which purpoſe, that he might auow the vſe of this name, he ſignifieth, that it had before bene vſed by Cyprian. And afterward he affirmeth directly, that the true Chriſtian people are diuided from the hereticall, when they are called Catholicke. But you will perhaps demaund, why Catholicke ſhould be applied to make this diſtinction. The reaſon thereof (as I thinke) is this. The Goſpell by the preaching of the Apoſtles, was ſpred farre & neere ouer the face of the earth, & accordingly diuers Churches in diuers places eſtabliſhed: all which agreed in the vnitie of the ſame faith and doctrine. But Sathan, rrMat. 13. 25.Matt 13:25who is alwaies watching to ſow cockle, and darnell among the wheat, ſtirred vp here and there ſſAct. 20. 30.Acts 20:30certaine peruerſe and trouble ſome men, who ſet abroach errors to corrupt the truth of Doctrine. Now theſe teachers being diſcouered, that there might be a difference of name betwixt true Chriſtians and them (for the name of chriſtian was common to both) ſo that euerie man might learne, by the verie name to auoid the p. 286heretickes; it was thought meete by the learned and carefull gouernours of the ſeuerall Churches, that hereticks ſhould be called by ſome ſpeciall name, either of their author, or of ſome point of error, which they held: and the true profeſſors ſhould hauehave the title of Catholicks, becauſe they maintained the truth of that doctrine, which was generally profeſſed by the Churches of God. In this ſenſe ttPacian. vbi ſupra.Pacianus ſaith, that Chriſtian was his name, and Catholicke his ſirname. Hee that ſhall aduiſedly conſider the vſe of the word in uuCyprian. ad Cornel. Epiſt. 41. Epiſt. 45. Sect. 10. Epiſt. 71. ad Quintum.Cyprian, ſhall perceiue that Catholicke is oppoſed by him to ſchiſme and hereſie; and that ſaid by him, to be done againſt the Catholicke Church, which is done contrarie to the practiſe of the ſeuerall Churches in all countries. So xxClemens Alexandr. Stromat. lib. 7.Clemens ſaith, that hereſies labour to rend the Church in peeces: and he calleth the Church Catholicke, becauſe of the vnitie of one faith, generally receiued, as may be gathered out of him: though indeed the chiefe thing, which he reſpecteth in the vnitie of the Church, is, that All the elect are made partakers of one and the ſame ſaluation, according to the couenant of God, which in all ages hath bene one and the ſame. Wherin he ſeemes to apply the terme Catholicke to time: but the reaſon of the name by the generall and conſtant iudgement of the ancient writers, is rather the generality of the Church, profeſſing the ſame doctrine in all places. Therefore your great Biſhop yyCanus loc. Theol. lib. 4. cap. poſtre.Melchior Canus, expounding this title, ſaith that the Church is called Catholicke, becauſe in eueryevery country, people, and nation, ſexe and condition, it is ſpred farre and neere. And by this difference (ſaith he afterward) it is diſtinguiſhed, not onelyonly from the Synagogue (or Iewiſh Church) but alſo from the conuenticles of hereticks. So doth your zzCatechiſ. Concil. Trident. in expoſ. ſymb.catechiſme of Trent, ſet out by Pius Quintus, vnderſtand Catholicke. The Church is called Catholicke, becauſe it is ſpred, in the light of one faith, from the Eaſt to the Weſt, receiuing men of all ſorts, be they Soythians, or Barbarians, bond or free, male or female. Then followeth, the vniuerſalitie of time, containing all the faithfull, which hauehave bene from Adam euen till this day, or ſhall be hereafter till the end of the world, profeſſing the true faith, and being built vponupon Chriſt, vponupon the foundation of the Prophets and Apostles. If then we reſtraine the p. 287Catholickneſſe of the Church, to vniuerſalitie of place, wherein (as we hauehave ſeene) perſons are alſo contained, The Catholicke Church is nothing elſe, but the companie of the elect, taken now ordinarily not onelyonly out of the Iewes, as heretofore till the comming of our Sauiour, but alſo out of all nations and people whatſoeuer. If we ſtretch it farther to vniuerſalitie of time alſo, which can hardly be prooued out of the ancient writers, it comprehendeth all the elect that hauehave bene, are, and ſhall be, from the beginning of the world, to the end thereof. And thus much of the Catholicke Church, concerning the meaning; and reaſon of the word.

Now to your proofe, as it lieth, not by way of refutation, but of explication. We grant (as I hauehave ſaid often) that the Church is common to all people, and places, not ſhut vp any longer within the land of Iewry, nor appropriated to the Iews; and we condemne them of error, who teach (as ſometimes the Donatiſts & Rogatians did) that it is encloſed in Affrick or Europe, or Aſia, or America, or any of theſe, and not common to euerie one of them, aſwell as to any of them. But this is not ſo to be vnderſtood, as if the Church of Chriſt muſt needs be in all theſe, or many of theſe at once in any one time. It is enough that we acknowledge the vniuerſality of it de iure, thogh we denie it to be here, or there de facto: To ſpeake plaine, it belōgeth to the nature of the Church of Chriſt, to hauehave all places open to it, & it is no more tied to Rome or Ieruſalem, then it is to London or Paris, yea it hath ſpred it ſelfe ouer the face of the whole earth, and hath bene, or ſhall be in euerie particular countrie: but this largeneſſe, hath not bene, nor perhaps ſhall be, at any one time, but by ſucceſſion, as it hath pleaſed God to affoord the meanes of the Goſpell, and giuegive a bleſſing to it, ſometimes in one place, ſometimes in an other, as your ſelfe preſently acknowledge. But this doth not prooue, that it is a marke to know the Church by.

This reaſon of the name Catholicke, is a mere deuiſe of your owne, and without warrant of antiquitie. I ſay more, it is falſe too, vnderſtanding it as you do, not of the Church of the elect, but of a companie of men making knowne profeſſion of the true p. 288faith. For in aaAct. 2. 1. 2.Acts 2:1Acts 2:2the beginning, when the Church of Chriſt was as pure and as glorious, as euer it was ſince, it ſtretched not it ſelfe beyond the borders of Iewrie, but was for a time ſhut vp within the walles of Ieruſalem: bbAct. 8. 4.Acts 8:4till the Lord by Herods perſecution, made way for it to paſſe into all the world. From that time forward it grew mightily, and ſetled it ſelfe in many countries, yea it ceaſed not to multiply till the reuealing of Antichriſt, who by little and little, corrupted the truth of doctrine, euen in the fundamentall points, and ſo deſtroyed the Church of God out of theſe parts of the world; where it had floriſhed ſome hundreds of yeares. Yet was not the world left without a true Church, no not in theſe weſterne countries: but ſuch was the ſtate of it, as that it remained in a few choſen ſeruants of God, who were hidden, cc1. Reg. 18. 13.1 Kgs 18:13like thoſe fifties in Iſrael, from the eies of your rauenous wolues, the bloudthirſty Cleargy of your Romiſh Synagogue.

Saint Auſtin in that booke, you alledge, had to do with the Donatiſts, who inſolently and wickedly rent themſelues from the vnion of all the chriſtian Churches then in the world, allowing no other Church of Chriſt, but that faction of their owne in a part of Africa. ddAug. de vnit. Eccle. cap. 12.Eccl 12They neither could, nor did charge the Churches, which they condemned, with any groſſe error in doctrine: but confidently affirmed without all ground of truth, or likelihood of reaſon, that the Churches planted by the Apoſtles, were vaniſhed out of the world: for ſupply whereof, I know not by what miracle, their Church forſooth ſprung vp vponupon a ſodaine in that corner of Africa. This ridiculous conceit of theirs Auſtin refuteth, by ſhewing that the Church is to be ſought and found in the Scriptures, and not in the deuiſes and dreames of men. Let vsus not heare (ſaith eeVbi ſupra. cap. 3.Auſtin) this I ſay, this you ſay, but let vsus heare, this ſaith the Lord: The Lords bookes are to be had, to the authoritie whereof both of vsus conſent, both giuegive credit, both of vsus obey. There let vsus ſeeke the Church, there let vsus trie our cauſe. And a little after, I will not hauehave the Church ſhewed me by mens deuiſes, but by the Oracles of God. And againe afterward, when the hereticks expound the performance of the promiſe made to Abraham. ffGen. 15. 5.Gen 15:5Thy ſeed ſhall be as the ſand of the ſea, p. 289and as the Starres of heauen; as if it had bene fulfilled in Donatus and his companie, ggVbi ſupra. cap. 6.Auſtin anſwereth: Reade vsus this, out of the Law, out of the Prophets, out of the Pſalmes, out of the Goſpell it ſelfe, out of the Apoſtles writings; reade it, and we beleeue it. This foundation being laid in the fiue firſt chapters, Auſtin proceedeth to prooue the vniuerſalneſſe of continuance of the Church, out of the Scriptures; out of the old Teſtament, hhOut of the Law. cap. 6. Out of the Prophets. c. 7 Out of the Pſalmes. c. 8.Ps 8in the three next chapters, out of the new in the teſt. So that the argument you ſpeake of, beginneth at the ſixt chapter, the Maior or propoſitiō is in the firſt chapters to the ſixt, the Aſſumption or Minor in the other that follow. But becauſe you leaue thoſe three chapters, that ſhew what the Church ſhould be out of the old Teſtament, I will follow your courſe, and begin at the ninth: where Auſtin ſheweth that the Church was to begin at Ieruſalem, and ſo to paſſe into Samaria, and from thence to ſpread it ſelfe through the whole world. To this he bringeth in the Donatiſts thus anſwering. Theſe things (ſay they) we beleeue, and confeſſe that they are fulfilled: but afterward the world fell away, and onelyonly Donatus companie remained. VVhat doth Auſtin replie? Let them reade this to vsus (ſaith iiChap. 12.Auſtin) as they reade of Enoch, of Noe, & of Abraham, Iſaac, and Iacob, and of the Tribes which remained, the reſt rending themſelues away, and of the twelue Apostles, who continued faithfull, when all other fell away. Theſe examples the Donatiſts had brought to countenāce their ſchiſme. Auſtin willeth them to prooue their ſtedfaſtneſſe, when all other Churches failed, by the ſame Scriptures, which were to beare witneſſe of thoſe, whom they alledged. He goeth forward to refute other arguments of theirs in the chapter following, ſtill preſſing them with this, that they ſhould ſhew out of the Scriptures, that the Church founded by the Apoſtles was to vaniſh away, and their faction onelyonly to remaine ſincere. This was his courſe, and indeed, what other courſe could he hauehave taken? The hereticks, as before I hauehave noted, did not accuſe the Catholicks of any error, againſt the foundation, whereby they might prooue, they had ceaſed to be of the Church: but onelyonly vrged verie abſurdly a dreame of their owne, that all, but they of Donatus part, were p. 290fallen away. What is this to the queſtion betwixt you and vsus? We ſhew euidence of Scripture, to prooue that kk2. Theſſ. 2. 3. See D Abbot and D. Downam of Antichriſt.2 Thess 2:3there was to be a defection, that Antichriſt, the head of that defection, is to be the chiefe gouernour of the Eccleſiaſticall ſtate, that his ſeat is to be at Rome: yea we manifeſtly conuince your Apoſtaticall Church of many and groſſe hereſies: ſome of them directly ouerthrowing the foundation of our Sauiour Chriſts mediatorſhip, for the whole puniſhment of all our ſinnes, and the louelove of God in chooſing vsus to euerlaſting life, without reſpect of any thing on our part, wherby we, & not he, make difference of our ſelues from other: that is, we prooue that the doctrine of your Church is vtterly falſe, in the maine points of predeſtination, & iuſtification, without the true beleefe whereof, there can hardly be any true religion: becauſe the greateſt part of Gods glory, which is the end of all religion, is ouerthrowne, or hidden by ſuch errors, as your Church maintaines in theſe matters of iuſtification and predeſtination. But to the matter. This generall ground of Auſtins diſputation we acknowledge to be good and ſound: as for that which he addeth, and you eſpecially vrge, I anſwer with Auſtins good leaue, that the place he brings, prooues not a continuall increaſe of the Church, from Anſelmus ad Col. 1. 6.Col 1:6time to time, but onelyonly, that when the Apoſtle writ, there had bene a good growth of the ſeed of the Goſpell, as among llCol. 1. 6.Col 1:6the Coloſſians, ſo in the whole world. And whereas he doth aſſay to prooue, that there muſt be an increaſe of the Goſpell, till the end of the world, becauſe our Sauiour in the Parable ſaith, that mmMat. 13. 30Matt 13:30the good ſeed muſt grow till that time: we craue leaue to diſſent from him, till it be prooued, that the Parable is ſo to be vnderſtood, and that the Apoſtle ſo intended that ſpeech of his. For Parables, Auſtin himſelfe hath taught vsus, in this verie queſtion againſt the Donatiſts, nnAug. ad Vincent. epiſt. 48.that no man may apply any thing out of a Parable, to prooue his purpoſe by, vnleſſe he can ſhew euident and cleare reaſon for his interpretation. But this euidence ſeemes to be wanting in this expoſition of the Parable. For the ſcope of the Parable is not to prooue, that the Church ſhall continually increaſe till the end of the world: but to ſhew that in the outward congregations, good and bad ſhall be alwaies p. 291mingled together, and ſo doth ooAug. contr. epiſt. Parm. lib. 1. cap. 7. & lib. 2. cap. 2. Contr. lit. Petil. lib. 3. cap. 2 Contr. Creſcon. lib. 2. cap. 35 Contr. Donat. poſt. Collat. cap. 6. 8Auſtin himſelfe eueryevery where expound the place. And ſurely if from hence we may prooue ſuch a continuall growth of the Church, may we not from the ſame place conclude the like of hereſies? ppMat. 13. 38Matt 13:38Let them both grow together vntill the harueſt, ſaith the text. But what ſhould I make many words about this Parable? Our Sauiour himſelfe expounds it qqverſ. 37afterward, and makes no ſuch collection of the Churches increaſe, til the worlds end. And rrHieron. ad Math. 13Matt 13Ierome willeth vsus not to be ouer haſtie to geſſe at the meaning of the Parable, becauſe the expoſitiō of it in the text, is deferred from the 13. verſe to the 37. but to wait til our Sauiour giuegive vsus the interpretatiō; who hath giuen vsus to vnderſtand, that the good ſeed are the children of the kingdome, not as in the Apoſtle, the Goſpel: how then are they all one? Beſide, the Parable ſpeaketh not of the outward Church, that is, of all profeſſors, all which are mēbers of your Church, if they hold of your Pope; but of the true Church indeed, the elect of God, called ſſverſ. 43the children of the kingdome: all the good ſeed (ſaith our Sauiour) are iuſt men, and ſhall ſhine as the Sunne in the kingdome of their Father: So ſhall not all your Church do, many of your number, by your owne confeſſion, being wicked and reprobate, neither iuſt, nor to hauehave any place in heauen. But the decay of your owne Popiſh Church (me thinketh) ſhould ſufficiently refute this conceit.

uuMath. 24. 14Matt 24:14The other place alledged to prooue that the propagation of the Goſpell muſt increaſe till the end of the world, is neither rightly vnderſtood, nor of any force to the matter in queſtion. To ſpeake of the latter point in a word. Let vsus grant, that by the end, the end of the world is ſignified. What of that? Our Sauiour doth not ſay, that the Church ſhall grow greater and greater till the end of the world, but that the Goſpell ſhall be preached in all places, before the world hauehave an end: ſo may it be, though after it is once preached for ſome few yeares, it be out of the world for many yeares together, and afterward be againe begun: and this may befall it oftentimes for all that prophecie. Let vsus further yeeld, that it ſhall alwaies continue in the world, (as doubtleſſe it ſhall;) yet is there not hereupon p. 292any ſuch neceſſitie of this growth to be inferred. For it may be preached in all places, and yet loſe more in one countrie, then it getteth in three, paſſing along with a ſmall retinew, from one land to another. Now for the other point, it is apparent that our Sauiour, at the leaſt in that former part of the Chapter, prophecieth of the deſtruction of Ieruſalem; before which (ſaith he) the Goſpell ſhall be preached through the whole world. The end (ſaith xxChryſoſt. ad Mat. hom. 76.Chryſoſtome) namely the end of Ieruſalem. And he prooueth that the Goſpell was ſo preached by yyRom. 10. 18. Col. 1. 6.Rom 10:18Col 1:6two places of Scripture, the one whereof is, that out of the Epiſtle to the Coloſſians. Of the ſame opinion is zzThophyl. ad Mat. 24. & ibi Gloſſ. ordin. & Lyra.Matt 24Theophylact, and your ordinarie Gloſſe, and Lyra, who vndertaketh to ſhew, that the Goſpell had bene preached in the three knowne parts of the world, Africa, Aſia, and Europe, before Ieruſalem was deſtroyed by Titus and Veſpaſian. aaIanſen. harm. cap. 22.Ianſenius Biſhop of Gaunt diſputeth the point, and concludeth, for all Auſtins authoritie, and reaſons, that it ſeemeth we are rather to hold with Chryſoſtome, that our Sauiour ſpeaketh of the end of Ieruſalem. Which (ſaith he) is euidently gathered from this, that after our Lord had ſaid; Then commeth the end, he preſently addeth: when therefore you ſhall ſee the abhomination of deſolation, &c. For, the bringing in of this ſignifieth, that he obſerueth the order of things to come, and teacheth, what was to be done, when the end whereof he ſpake, ſhould come.

All this part of your diſcourſe, to prooue that hereſies are not Catholicke, either from time or place, might verie well hauehave bene ſpared. For who ever imagined, that error was before truth, when as it is nothing elſe but a ſtraying from the truth? Yet hauehave ſome hereſies bene of long continuance, as Arianiſme for a great while; which was alſo ſo vniuerſall for a time, that (as bbHieron. dialog. contr. Lu…fcrian.Ierome ſaith) the world wondred at it ſelfe, that it was become an Arian. But what ſhould I waſte time and labour about theſe things, wherein we are of one minde? Let it be enough for me againe to put you in minde, that this Catholickneſſe can be no good marke to diſcerne the Church by, from heretiks, becauſe it wanteth your ſecōd propertie of plainneſſe p. 293and eaſineſſe to be knowne: yea there is a meere impoſſibilitie that any man ſhould know, that any hereſie ſhall hauehave an end before the end of the world: or that it ſhall not ſpread far and neare ouer the world: yea it paſſeth the reach of ordinary men to know certainly, that any hereſie hath not bene ſince the beginning of the Goſpell, becauſe this matter requireth ſome ſpeciall knowledge of ſtorie, whereof moſt men are ignorant.

The Church in ccAuguſt. lib. 4. de Symb. c. 10.Saint Auſtins time, by the bleſſing of God was ſo inlarged, that it had poſſeſſion of many parts of the world; and in compariſon of it, hereſies (yea the Arian hereſie) was but in corners. In this goodly eſtate continued it for the moſt part, till (as before I obſerued) Antichriſt brake out, and ouerthrew the very foundation of faith. But if any man will ſo far preſſe Auſtins authoritie, as to make vniuerſalitie a certaine marke of the church; how will he credit the holy Ghoſt affirming by dd2. Theſſ. 2. 4.2 Thess 2:4Saint Paul, that there muſt be a generall falling away; and by eeApoc. 12. 6.Rev 12:6Saint Iohn, that the church muſt flie into the wilderneſſe, and there lie hidden a long time?

The ffAuguſt. de vnit. eccl. cap. 3.other teſtimonie out of Auſtin, you tranſlate falſly, to make it ſerue your turne the better. For Auſtin ſaith not, that Hereſies are not found in many nations, but that eueryevery ſeuerall hereſie is not found in many nations where the Church is. But admit there were ſome churches without any hereſie for a time, and neuer any hereſie but where there is alſo a true church; yet g Singulae haereſes.doth not Auguſtine ſay, that eueryevery man may eaſily diſcerne the true church from hereticall aſſemblies: becauſe it may fall out, as it hath done, that hereſie, as Arianiſme, ſhall be more generall then true Religion. Let vsus father grant, that whatſoeuer hath vniuerſally bin receiued in the Chriſtian world, eſpecially at all times, is true: yet cannot this Catholickneſſe be a good note of the church, becauſe (if I ſhall make bold to repeate the ſame again) it is hardly poſſible for any man to vnderſtand what points hauehave bin ſo receiued. But you forget your ſelfe very much: for by this rule you appoint them that will iudge which is the church, to enter into ſuch a maze, as they ſhall neuer get out of, if they ſhall not acknowledge any church for true, but that p. 294which holdeth all things that hauehave euer generally bene held in the Chriſtian world. But of Catholickneſſe this may ſuffice.

A. D. §. 6.

Lastly, the true Church is alſo Apoſtolicke, that is to ſay, ſuch as hath her foundation from the Apoſtles, according to that ſaying of the Apostle S. Paul: Non eſtis hoſpites & aduenae, ſed eſtis Epheſ. 2.Eph 2ciues ſanctorum & domeſtici Dei, ſuperae dificati ſupra fundamentum Apoſtolorum & Prophetarum, ipſo ſummo angulari lapide Chriſto Ieſu: You are not ſtrangers and forreiners, but you are citizens of the ſaints and the domeſticals of God, built vponupon the foundation of the Apoſtles and Prophets, Ieſus Christ himſelfe being the higheſt corner ſtone. This we may gather out of that which is already ſaid. For if the Apoſtles were they which were appointed by our Sauior, to be vnderunder him the founders of his church, which by their preaching began at Ieruſalem, and from thence by Act. 1. Act. 2. Aug. l. de Paſtor. cap. 8.Acts 1Acts 2them, and thoſe that receiued authoritie from them, tanquam vitis creſcendo vbique diffuſa eſt, (as S. Austin ſpeaketh) like a vine by growing was ſpred abroade eueryevery where: and being thus first planted and ſpred abroad, was afterwards by the miniſtery of lawfully ſucceeding Paſtors and Doctors continued without interruption till now, and ſhall be alſo continued till the worlds end: there is no doubt but that this companie (deſcending thus lineally from the Apoſtles, and depending of them as their lawfull progenitors, and being built vponupon them, as (after Chriſt himſelfe) vponupon principall foundations) may well be called Apoſtolicke, that is to ſay, ſuch as deriue their pedegree from no other author or founder, later then the Apostles themſelues. All this doth Tertullian briefly, but pithily comprehend in this ſhort ſentence: Apoſtoli apud vnamquamque ciuitatem Eccleſias condiderunt; ab his autem ciuitatibus ſeu Lib. de praeſcripEccleſijs ab Apoſtolis conſtitutis, traducem fidei, & ſemina doctrinae, caeterae exinde Eccleſiae mutuatae ſunt, & quotidie mutuantur vt Eccleſiae fiāt, ac per hoc & ipſae Apoſtolicae deputabuntur, vt ſoboles Apoſtolicarum Eccleſiarum: The Apoſtles (to wit, either immediatly by themſelues, or by meanes of others) founded Churches at eueryevery citie: from which cities or Churches being thus founded by the Apoſtles, other Churches afterward did borrow, and do daily borrow the ofspring of faith, and the ſeeds of doctrine, that p. 295they may be made Churches, and by this meanes theſe alſo ſhall be accounted Apoſtolicke, as being the iſſue of the Apoſtolicall Churches.

Contrariwiſe, no conuenticle of heretickes can be Apoſtolicke, by reaſon that hereſie (being an vpſtart noueltie, contrarie to the former receiued faith of the Church) cannot hauehave any Apoſtle or Apoſtolick man for author and founder, but is forced to acknowledge ſome other, of whom as it receiued the firſt being, ſo moſt commonly either the doctrine or the men that follow it, or both, receiue alſo their name, as of Arius came Arianiſme and the Arians, of Montanus came the Montaniſts and Montaniſme; and there was neuer yet hereticke, which could deriue the pedegree of his congregation by vninterrupted ſucceſſion from the Apoſtles: which maketh Tertullian to vrge them ſo earnestly, ſaying: Edant haeretici origines Lib. de praeſcripEccleſiarum ſuarum, euoluant ordinem Epiſcoporum, ita per ſucceſſiones decurrentes, vt primus ille Epiſcopus, aliquem ex Apoſtolicis viris, qui tamen cum Apoſtolis perſeuerauerit, authorem habuerit & anteceſſorem: Let the heretickes ſhew the beginning of their Churches (or, as they had rather ſay, of their congregations) let them vnfold the order of their Biſhops or ſuperintendents, ſo running downe by ſucceſſions, that the firſt of them ſhall hauehave for his author in doctrine, and predeceſſors in place, any Apoſtolicke man, who did perſeuere, and did not forſake the Apoſtles. Thus did Tertullian vrge them, becauſe he knew well that they could neuer make this proper note of the true Church to agree to their companie.

A. W.

This laſt part of your diſcourſe, ſhould proue the fourth point of your former aſſumption, that, to be Apostolicke, is a propertie belonging onelyonly to the true Church, and not hard to be diſcerned in any companie whereſoeuer it is. If all this were proued, yet were your ſyllogiſme nothing worth, becauſe I iuſtly excepted againſt the conſequence of your propoſition, which remains ſtil without any confirmation. But to let that paſſe: how idle is this proof of yours, wherein the latter part of that you ſhould proue, is quite omittted, that it is no hard matter for any ſimple man to diſcerne which Church is Apoſtolicke, which is not? If you make not this cleare, you proue nothing: and yet eueryevery man may ſee, that p. 296it is a matter of no ſmall ſtudie, nor ſhort time, to examine what Churches were firſt founded by the Apoſtles, and hauehave had an orderly ſucceſſion without interruption from time to time: yea when a man hath made the beſt ſearch he can, what hath he to reſt himſelfe vponupon, but the report of men, who might deceiue, and be deceiued? And yet this ado eueryevery poore ſoule muſt hauehave before he can tell to what Church he may ioyne himſelfe for his ſpirituall inſtruction in matters concerning euerlaſting life. You will aske, what courſe we take for a mans direction in this caſe? Surely the very ſame which the Scriptures teſtify we ought to follow. We propound out of the Scriptures the meanes of ſaluation: we giuegive our people libertie to examine that we deliuer, by the touchſtone of truth, the ſame Scriptures of God: we deſire not to hauehave any credit giuen to that we teach (as a matter of faith) but ſo far forth as we can proue it manifeſtly by the word of God. Thus we begin with men, thus we continue; leauing the ſucceſſe of our poore miniſtery to the bleſſing of Gods Spirit, in the hearts of them that vouchſafe vsus the hearing. But for better direction in the triall of our doctrine, wee giuegive this rule, that true religion firſt reſpects the glory of God, and then the preſent comfort and euerlaſting ſaluation of them that profeſſe it. Whether courſe, yours or ours be more reaſonable, and more agreeable to Scripture, I leaue it to the conſideration of al men whom it doth concerne, and returne to the examining of your proofe: whereof there are theſe two parts, that the true Church is Apoſtolicke, that no conuenticle of heretickes can be Apoſtolicke.

Of the former thus you diſpute:

If eueryevery true Church muſt hauehave ſuch a foundation as the Church of the Epheſians had, and ſhe had her foundation from the Apoſtles; then eueryevery true Church muſt hauehave her foundation from the Apoſtles.

But eueryevery true Church muſt hauehave ſuch a foundation as the Church of the Epheſians had, and ſhe had her foundation from the Apoſtles.

Therefore eueryevery true Church muſt hauehave her foundation from the Apoſtles.

p. 297I would make no queſtion of any part of your Syllogiſme, if To the Aſſumption.by foundation from the Apoſtles, you vnderſtood nothing but Apoſtolicall doctrine, which is indeed the maine foundation of all true Churches: but you afterward expound your meaning, and acknowledge no foundation from the Apoſtles, but by the miniſtery of ſuch as can deriue their ſucceſſion from the Apoſtles, without any interruption. In this ſenſe therefore I denie your minor, becauſe the former part of it is falſe. For eueryevery true Church hath not, nor need hauehave, to make it a true Church, ſuch foundation as the Church of the Epheſians had. Yea though we doubt not, but that the Epheſiās were conuerted to the faith by ſome of the Apoſtles, and perhaps by the hhAct. 18. 19. Eph. 2. 12.Acts 18:19Eph 2:12Apoſtle Paul: yet we doe not beleeue that the Apoſtle, in the place alledged by you, ſpeakes of any ſuch foundation, but of the truth of doctrine taught by the Apoſtles. This may appeare, becauſe the Apoſtle makes the Prophets their foundation, as wel as the Apoſtles. But certaine it is, that neither the Prophets, nor any by ſucceſſion from them, laid the foundation of the Goſpell amongſt the Epheſians. He meanes (ſaith iiTheodo. ad Epheſ. 2. Tertull. contra Marciō. lib. 5. cap. 17. Ambroſ. ad Epheſ. 2.Eph 2Theodoret) the Prophets of the old Teſtament, not of the new: leſt you ſhould cauill about the name Prophets. Beſides, the foundation of the Apoſtles muſt be conceiued, as our Sauiour Chriſt is the corner ſtone to the Epheſians: not becauſe he preached to them, but for that they reſted vponupon him as a corner ſtone, the doctrine of the Apoſtles being the foundation. And if we will tie this to the perſons that deliuer Thomas in expoſit. Symb. §. Sanct. Eccle.the doctrine, then to be the foundation is ſo proper to the Apoſtles, as that it cannot agree to any other man whatſoeuer, how Apoſtolicke ſoeuer he may be imagined to be. For kkApoc. 21. 14.Rev 21:14this was their ſpeciall honor aboue all other Chriſtians. Thus doe the beſt interpreters expound the place: Ʋpon the foundation of the Prophets and Apostles, that is (ſaith llAmbroſ. ad Eph. 2.Eph 2Ambroſe) vponupon the new and old Teſtament. For that which the Apoſtles preached, the Prophets foretold. As for the Prophets of the new Teſtament, They (ſaith mmAmbroſ. ad Eph. 2. 20.Eph 2:20Ambroſe) are for the ordering of the Church founded, and not for the founding of it. Ʋpon Chriſt (ſaith your nnGloſſ. interl. ad Eph. 2. 20.Eph 2:20Gloſſe) or vponupon the doctrine of the Apoſtles. So ooLyra. ibi.Lyra, Ʋpon the doctrine of the new and old Teſtament. With whom ppLombard. ibi.Lombard agreeth, though p. 298he expound it alſo of Chriſt. So doth qqThomas ibi.Thomas: Ʋpon their doctrine. So doth rrCaietan. ibi.Caietan vnderſtand it; that a man may wonder at your ignorance or boldneſſe, in going againſt the ſtreame of your owne Doctors, without any ſhew of reaſon for it.

Wherefore if your minor intend no more, but that eueryevery true Church is builded vponupon the foundation of the Prophets and Apoſtles, in reſpect of their doctrine, no exception could be taken againſt it. For ſſ1. Cor 3. 11.1 Cor 3:11other foundation no man can lay but Ieſus Chriſt: according to the preaching and propheſying of the Apoſtles and Prophets. This foundation had the Church of Epheſus, Anſel. ad Eph. 2.Eph 2and in this muſt eueryevery true Church agree with it. But you apply this to I know not what dependance of ſucceſſion, which hath no kinde of warrant from that place of the Apoſtle.

To ſupply your want of proofe from the Scriptures, that eueryevery true Church must hauehave her foundation from ſome Apoſtle, or ſome man who can fetch his pedegree, without interruption, from the Apoſtles: you ſeeke to draw in Tertullian for a witneſſe of your error. Let vsus heare his depoſitiō. The Apoſtles (ſaith ttTertul. de praeſcrip. cap. 20.Tertullian) founded Churches in eueryevery citie. Here to helpe your ſelfe, you adde this gloſſe: To wit, either immediatly by themſelues, or by meanes of other. What reaſon is there, that he that is a partie in the ſuite, ſhould hauehave the expoūding of the witneſſes meaning? Tertullian ſaith, the Apoſtles founded Churches: you tell vsus, he meanes they did ſo by themſelues or by others. How ſhall we know, that you are ſo priuy to his meaning? If you ground your expoſition vponupon thoſe words (in eueryevery citie,) whereas the Apoſtles came not in diuers cities that were then in the world: I pray remember that there were at that time many cities, into which we are not ſure that the Goſpell had before Tertullians time bin receiued. The learned man may ſpeake in generall, and yet with ſpeciall relation to thoſe places which were then knowne to be Churches founded by the Apoſtles, as Ieruſalem, Antioch, Rome, Alexandria, Epheſus, &c. He addes farther, that From theſe Churches founded by the Apoſtles, other Churches afterward had borrowed, and (in his time) dayly did borrow the xxTraducem.propagation of faith, and ſeeds of doctrine. I make bold to alter p. 299your tranſlation: let the skilfull Reader iudge whether I hauehave cauſe or no. But what of all theſe? Tertullian doth not ſay, that no Church is to be accounted Apoſtolicke, but that which can without interruption ſhew her deſcent from the Apoſtles; nor that eueryevery Church is true, that can make ſuch proofe of her original. But yyCap. 13.whereas the hereticks, againſt whom he there dealeth, reiected and receiued Scripture at their choiſe and would neuer leaue wrangling; Tertullian appeales to the iudgement of thoſe Churches which were knowne to be founded by the Apoſtles, and in which the truth was moſt likely to be found. As for your argument of ſucceſſion, you ſhall heare Tertullians iudgment of it. Let hereticks (ſaith zzTertull. de praeſcr. cap. 32.Tertullian in the ſame book) faine a ſucceſſion from the Apoſtles: they ſhall get nothing by it. For their doctrine compared with that the Apoſtles taught, by the diuerſitie and contrarietie thereof will declare, that it came not from any Apoſtle or Apoſtolicke man: becauſe as the Apoſtles would not teach contrary one to another: ſo Apoſtolick men would not deliuer doctrine contrary to the Apoſtles, vnleſſe they were ſuch as were fallen away from the Apoſtles, to preach otherwiſe then they did. So then the chiefe triall of a true Church, is by the doctrine of the Apoſtles and their ſucceſſors in the truth, becauſe it is poſſible for hereticks to ſhew their deſcent from the Apoſtles, or ſome Churches which had their beginning from the Apoſtles or Apoſtolicke men. Yea aaScor. hiſt. l. 1. cap. 3. Augu. de haer…ſ. cap. 91. 92. 51.it is manifeſt, that the greateſt hereſies (as the foure maine ones condemned in the foure firſt generall Councels) had their beginning of them who could ſhew their pedegree ſtep by ſtep from the Apoſtles, in reſpect of outward ſucceſſion.

We hauehave ſoone how weakly you hauehave proued that perſonall ſucceſſion is a thing belonging to the true Church: it remaines that you proue it to be proper to the church, and not common to it with heretickes. To which purpoſe you thus reaſon:

No vpſtart noueltie contrary to the former faith of the Church, can hauehave any Apoſtle or Apoſtolicke man for founder thereof.

EueryEvery hereſie is an vpſtart noueltie, contrary to the former faith of the Church.

p. 300Therefore no hereſie can hauehave any Apoſtle or Apoſtolicke man for the founder thereof.

How much more truly and reaſonably ſpake Tertullian of To the propoſition.the like matter, when he ſaid, that bbTertull. de praeſcr. cap. 32.no Apoſtolicke man taught contrary to the Apoſtles, vnleſſe he were ſuch a one as was fallen from the Apoſtles? He ſaw and acknowledged, that it was poſſible for a man inſtructed by the Apoſtles themſelues, to forſake the truth of doctrine, and become an author or maintainer of hereſie. Doth not cc1. Ioā. 2. 18. 19Saint Iohn ſpeake of ſome, who being bred vp in the church, by hereſie departed from it? What ſhould I name dd1. Tim. 1. 20.1 Tim 1:20Hymenaeus, Alexāder, ee2. Tim. 1. 15.2 Tim 1:15Phygellus, Hermogenes, ffApoc. 2. 6.Rev 2:6Nicolas, and ſuch like? Hardly can you name me any hereſie that euer tooke rooting, but the firſt plant of it ſprung vp in the nurſery of the Church. Therefore your maior is altogether vntrue, being vnderſtood as it is, of Apoſtolicke men, in reſpect of perſonall ſucceſſion, not of ſucceeding the Apoſtles in truth of doctrine.

But you thinke to make good your propoſition by Tertullians Tertull. de praeſcr. cap. 32.authoritie, who challengeth the heretickes to ſhew the beginning of their Churches from ſome Apoſtolicke men. Is it poſſible you ſhould either write or reade that ſentence of Tertullian, and not perceiue that it cuts the very throate of your cauſe? Doth not Tertullian in the ſentence alledged by you, directly confirme our opinion, and ouerthrow yours? Let them ſhew vsus their beginning (ſaith Tertullian) from ſome Apoſtolicke man. Is that enough? I: if we beleeue you, who define Apoſtolicknes by perſonal ſucceeding the Apoſtles. But what ſaith Tertullian? He in plaine termes requires ſuch an Apoſtolicke man as perſeuered with the Apoſtles, and forſooke them not. Now that by this perſeuering with the Apoſtles, and not forſaking them, he meanes agreement in doctrine; I proue it euidently by that which followeth in the ſame Chapter. Firſt, Tertullian ſhewes that it is in vaine for them to pleade ſucceſſion in place, if their doctrine be found contrary to that which the Apoſtles deliuered: I ſet downe the ſentence before. Secondly, he doubts not to ſay, that by the hereticks diſagreeing from the Apoſtles in doctrine, thoſe Churches which cannot proue themſelues to be p. 301Apoſtolicke, by naming any Apoſtle, or Apoſtolicke man, as the firſt founder of them, may yet conuince them not to be Apoſtolicke; and are themſelues to be counted Apoſtolicke, becauſe of their conſent in doctrine, with the Apoſtles. This is the ſumme of Tertullians words: the words themſelues run thus. To this triall (namely by doctrine, as the next ſentence before ſheweth) ſhall the hereticks be called by thoſe Churches; which though they cannot alledge any Apostle or Apoſtolicke man for their founder, as being of late, and now daily planted: yet agreeing in the ſame doctrine are neuertheleſſe counted Apoſtolicke, by reaſon of their hhConſanguinitate doctrinae.agreement in doctrine. Do you not ſee, that Tertullian diſputeth for vsus, againſt your pretended ſucceſſion? That he confeſſeth, heretickes may alledge perſonall ſucceſſion? That he acknowledgeth thoſe Churches for true, which cannot deriue their pedegree from the Apoſtles, or any Apoſtolicke man? That he maketh the truth of doctrine agreeing with the Apoſtles, a certaine and neceſſarie marke of the true Church? And are you not aſhamed, for all this, to bring Tertullian for an author of ſo groſſe an error? VVere you ſo blinde that you diſcerned not this your ſelfe, or did you ſo deſpiſe your Readers, that you preſumed, they would neuer hauehave the wit to ſee your ignorance or craft? It is now diſcouered ſufficiently, and yet this one point more muſt be added: that Tertullian requireth this ſhew of their Churches beginning, not of all heretickes, as you deceitfully alledge him (if you read him your ſelfe, and tooke him not vponupon credit, at ſome other mans hands) but onelyonly of thoſe, who pleade their continuance from the time of the Apoſtles. If any hereſies (ſaith Tertullian) dare fetch their continuance from the Apoſtles time, that therefore they may ſeeme Apoſtolicke, becauſe they were, while the Apoſtles liued; we may ſay, let them ſhew the beginning of their Churches, let them vnfould the ſucceſſion of their Biſhops, &c. With ſuch learning and conſcience doe you Papiſts alledge the Fathers, that he muſt needes be honeſter, and wiſer then you, that will not beleeue you, vponupon your bare word. VVe ſee then, that to be Apoſtolicke, in your ſenſe, is no good marke of a true Church: becauſe Hereticall p. 302Churches may ſo be Apoſtolicke, and true Churches not Apoſtolicke; and contrariwiſe, that to be Apoſtolicke in doctrine, as we expound it, is a moſt certaine note, whereby a true Church may be knowne, and the ſame, that we onelyonly allow of.

A. D. §. 7.

It appeareth therefore plaine enough, that theſe foure properties, One, Holy, Catholicke and Apoſtolicke agree onelyonly to the true Church; and ſith it is no hard matter for any to ſee or know, which companie of Chriſtians hath theſe properties (as in the next Chapter I ſhall declare,) it is alſo plaine, that theſe foure, One, Holy, Catholicke, Apoſtolicke, (being proper to the true Church: and apparent enough) are good notes or markes, by which men may diſcerne, which companie of thoſe, which hauehave the name of Chriſtians, and which profeſſe (as euerie companie profeſſeth themſelues) to teach the true doctrine of Chriſt, is indeed the true Church, which doubtleſſe teacheth in all points, the true doctrine of Chriſt.

A. W.

Nay rather it hath euidently appeared, that neuer an one of theſe, nor all of them together, as you vnderſtand them, are any good markes of the true Church: becauſe euerie one of them is ſuch, as that either a true Church may be without them, or at the leaſt, that no ordinarie man is able to iudge, which Church hath theſe properties in it, and which hath not. Whereupon I may ſafely conclude, that your grand ſyllogiſme in this Chapter, which any man may gather out of this laſt part of it, is neither rightly applied to that, which you were to prooue, as I ſhewed in the beginning; nor true it ſelfe, either for the Maior, or Minor, as by my anſwer to it, hath bin prooued. And wheras you adde in the end, that the true Church, doubtleſſe, teacheth in all points the true doctrine of Chriſt: we hauehave had too much triall of your weakneſſe in iudging, and boldneſſe in affirming, to beleeue this Cuckowes ſong of yours, though you chaunt it ouer neuer ſo often.

A. D.

CHAP. XVI. That the Romane Church is One, Holy, Catholicke, Apoſtolicke, and therefore the true Church.

p. 303A. W.

Although the Romane Church were One, Holy, Catholicke, Apoſtolicke, in ſuch ſenſe as you vnderſtand theſe titles, yet were it not therefore the true Church: becauſe there is neuer an one of theſe properties, except it be holineſſe, (which can be a marke of the Church to no man, becauſe no man can iudge of it) but may, for the nature of it, agree to ſome hereticall aſſembly.

A. D. §. 1.

Thus farre my diſcourſe hath gone along all in generalities, in ſhewing the neceſſitie of true faith: and that this faith is to be learned of the true Church: and that this Church continueth alwaies, and is viſible, as being a viſible company of men profeſſing the true faith of Chriſt: partaking his Sacraments: and liuing vnderunder the gouernment of lawfull Paſtors his ſubſtitutes: and that, (whereas diuers companies of men take vponupon them the title of this Church, whereby ſame do ſtand in doubt, which companie is the true Church) there be certaine markes, by which the true Church may be certainly knowne, and diſcerned from all other companies or congregations: and finally, that theſe markes be thoſe foure, One, Holy, Catholicke, Apoſtolicke, which are certainly knowne to be the properties of the true Church, both by the Nicene Creed, and alſo by plaine teſtimonies of Scriptures and Fathers.