Brief Discourse of the Troubles at Frankfort, Answer 4 – Objection 5
Whithead and the reſt off that ſide anwere in this wiſe.
We had purpoſed (right honorable ad righteous Magiſtrates) as we alſo ſignified vntounto your honours) to hauehave made no anſwere at all vntounto theis vnbrotherly reproches off Maiſter Horne and Maiſter Chambers (for they are the onelyonly Authors theroff) in as muche as they be vnworthy to be anſwered vntounto / ſeinge they hauehave no ſure grownds / but ba…e aſſertions onelyonly / whiche are as eaſilie denied as affirmed. And beſides that Maiſter Horne ſaide openly in the hearinge off all his complyces / before Maiſter Bartue D. Cox and D. Sandes / arbytres appointed by your authoritie / that he was not deſyrous that we ſhulde anſwere / wherin indede / he was not altogether a foole. For he knewe well ynough howe fond geare he had written / and would beare awaie this bragg the while / not as though we woulde not / but coulde not anſwere ſo light accuſations. Whiche petit bragg (Wherin he ſo muche deliteth) we woulde hauehave byn content to hauehave ſpared him / had not your authoritie (who thought it meete for vsus in anie wiſe to make anſwere) come betweene: And in caſe Maiſter Horne and Maiſter Chambers ſhall reade ſome thinges here in oure anſwere that they woulde not / let them remember that they hauehave driuen vsus to it / in that they hauehave bluſtred owte in wrytinge ſo vnworthie matters (and that ſo falſely) off ſuche a multitude off their baniſhed countrie men. for they (Forgettinge all humanitie and Good manner) / obiecte before the Magiſtrate (and that often) prouertie to a great manye off oures nowe in exile as a moſt highe reproche. What then? Are they baniſhed and poore willingly or parforce? Were they not and might they not (yff they ſet more by goodes then godlyneſſe / be richer? And whens hauehave they this pouertie whiche ye Maiſter Horne and maiſter Chābers caſte ſo tauntingly in their teeth? And whence hauehave ye this plentye wherby ye looke ſo high againſte your brethern? Surely yow ought to hauehave aduiſed your ſelff / ſeinge ye carry the common purſe / before ye had ſo raſhly and ſo vndiſcreetly publiſhed theis words vntounto the right honorable Magiſtrate / with the reproche off your ſelff and off your countrie men. In dede we woulde hauehave ſuffred theis (as common reproches) to be buried in perpetuall ſilence iff it ſemed not otherwiſe meete to the right honorable magiſtrate / (whoſe authoritie we obeyinge as yf becomethe vsus) ſhall anſwere particulerly vntounto all the particuler chapters off your aſſertions.
To the preface.
WHere Maiſter Horne and Maiſter Chambers deſire licence to ſaie and vnſaie / to put too and take fro / to ſubſcribe / and reuoke / to d…o / and vndoo all / as they think good them ſelues▪ they ſeeme to require their owne right: for they deſier no other then that they hauehave byn vſed hitherto to doo / as it is moſte euident…y knowen almoſt to all the whole congr…gation▪ notwithſtāding this (albeit) it is againſte S Paules rule / who denieth it to be his propertie to ſaie yea and nay / nether hauehave we anye more merueil / that the ſame Maiſter Horne and Maiſter Chambers think the olde Diſcipline is to be reteined ſtill as a thinge that bothe hathe permitted them free libertie to doo ye… hitherto what they woulde at their owne pleaſure / and ſhewethe no waye howe to amende thoſe matters that they hauehave don a m…ſſe a great while. And yet bicauſe we hauehave prouided by the author…tie bothe off the magiſtrat and off the congregation that the like ſhall not happen hereafter / they accuſe vsus off innouation forſoothe. Where they make cauillation aboute diſc…pline to be amended and not to be newe made / and accuſe vsus as though we hauehave done againſt the magiſtrates commaundement: We anſwere that all occaſions off oure olde controuerſies were taken awaye by the magiſtrates commaundement the laſte off February▪ but the olde Diſcipline / as a thing not perfect nor indifferent hathe byn the ſpeciall cauſe off our controuerſies in dede: Therfore we affirme that it was taken awaye by that commaundemente / and power geuen to the congregation to make an other / as it is declared in the plaine wordes off the ſame commaundement: Furthermore / for as muche as we hauehave kepte ſtill the greateſte parte off the olde diſcipline whiche ſemed indifferent as it apeareth euidently in the booke off oure diſcipline / let them call it (ſeinge it ſo pleaſeth them) the amendinge off the olde diſcipline / in aſmuche as to amende / is nothinge ells than to correcte that which is amiſſe / to put owte that is euell and to put in that is wantinge.
Therfore / whither they call it oure newe made diſcipline or the olde amended / we will not ſtriue with them abowte that matter / ſeinge / we geue them leaue to ſpeak at their pleaſure. OnelyOnly we decla…e that we hauehave done nothinge againſt the magiſtrates commaundement in that behalff.
Obiection to the title off the Diſcipline.
IN the tytle and entrance vntounto their Diſcipline we reproue this as plaine falſe in tha… they ſaye the booke off their diſcipline was collected by 15.Horne. Yet olde blind father lidford being an almes man, was forced by the B. off L. to ſ…bſcribe to the booke off prayer, among others, more blynde then he.men appointed do doo the ſame by the congregation and the authoritie off the Magiſtrate / and ſo exhibited afterwarde vntounto oure congregation by the ſame …5. men. For it was bothe collected before the matter was committed vntounto them and confirmed before hande by many mennes handes ſubſcribed.
Touchinge the 42. Whiche approued this diſcipline and confirmed it by ſubſcribinge / this we maie alleadge there are 24. off thē whiche lyue off other mennes liberalitie and almes / ſo as they maye ſeeme rather to followe other mennes wills / and to be inclined to their pleaſures: ſpecially / ſeinge ſo large and ample promiſes aſwell to liue at libertie as to hauehave their ſlender liuinge releued / hauehave byn made to this intent.