Brief Discourse of the Troubles at Frankfort, Objection 1 – Objection 4
To the 7. Article off the newe. VII.Diſcipline.
To the Article off 2.13. Sept. Horne. Iſaac. Chambers. VVilford. with diuers others. Min…ſters off like charge and authoritie we think we hauehave good …eaſons to require that there be no moo in the ſpeciall burthen and charge paſtorall then one / to whom the others ioyned with him for preachinge off the worde and miniſtringe the Sacraments ſhall not in cure and charge / gouernment and preheminence / be in all reſpectes coequall.
The Reaſons.
Firſte / the ſcripture ſpeakinge or treatinge of the office of a Biſhopp or miniſter / ſo ſpeakethe as it were to be preſuppoſed and as an order receiued / that one ſhuld in cure and charge be burthened aboue other / and in gouernement / for order ſake / in preheminence.
Item the expoſitions off all auncient Authors and Wryters vponupon the ſcripturs that toucheth that matter do alltogether as they ſecure / to gather owte off the texte / conclude / declare / and teache one Miniſter or paſtor in reſpectes aforeſayde preferred and charged aboue other and thus dothe the newe alſo.
Item this order off one in cure / charge / and gouernement preferred / hauehave all the churches to be red off / planted by the Apoſtels and all others in the primatiue churche obſerued / whoſe examples off vsus are not to be neglected.
Item / like as good reaſon off it ſelff forceth and concludeth: ſo all good autors bothe newe and olde doo freely teache that for conſeruation off vnitie and concorde and for auoidinge off ſchiſmes and diſcorde / it is requiſite and neceſſarie that a prerogatiue and preheminence for cure / charge / and gouernemente be committed and geuen to ſome one / to be (as it is afore ſaide) charged aboue others.
Item / all the reformed churches off Germany for the moſte parte / be off that iudgement / and therfore obſerue that order.
Item / yff Nicene councell decreed and ordered / for good order ſake / that one Biſhopp / and not many ſhulde be appoynted to euerye one cytie / howe more is it off neceſſitie for order ſake that one litle flocke ſhulde be content with one.
Item / who is ignorant off this / that for the moſte parte wher not one but rather two muſte hauehave the eſpeciall cure and charge) there commonly thinges be moſte negligentlye done and not ſo muche regarded and cared for as otherwiſe they woulde be.
The anſwer off the churche / touchinge this 7. Article. to the reaſons off the diſſenting brethern.
To …he 1.We ſe not by the ſcriptures / that anie authoritie is geuen to anie one aboue others / but rather to the contrary.
As concerninge olde wryters / To the 2… 3.4. Hales. VVhithead Nowell Mullins. VVattes Crowley Boetley Pedder. Parry VVilſon▪ Sorby. Bedell. Fauconer. Railton Crawley Aſhley Sutton Raulings Beſt and diuers others. To the 5.we knowe that Ierome expreſly declarethe that in the beginninge the churche was ruled equally by manie. But after when ſchiſmes began to ſpringe the chiefe authoritie was geuen to one for authorities ſake / and by mannes ordinaunce rather then by deuine authoritie / wherfore we cōclude that as for ſchiſmes the firſte order of many was left ād one chiefe apointed: So nowe for the auoidinge of tyrānie a worſe euell in the churche then ſchiſmes / whiche / as apearethe by the Biſhop of Rome is grownded vppon one / we thinke it good to returne to the firſte order off two or moo equall miniſters accordinge to the inſtitution off the Apoſtells as Saint Ierome teacheth. And that thoſe lerned men who do moſte earneſtly maintaine the gouernment off one / confeſſe that vntill the tyme off Dionyſius / who was after Chriſte 300. yeres and more / the Regimente was equally committed to manye. And as for the newe / there be examples off the beſte churche to the contrary. And Maiſter Caluin in the 8. Chap. off his Inſtitutions the 42. and 52. dyuiſions Declarethe expreſly that there were From the beginninge more Miniſters off the worde and that it is but off mannes ordinaunce that one was afterwarde made chieff.
That is alleadged off the reformed churches in Germany the multitude ought to ſerue no more for one / then the beſt reformed churches / for two miniſters off the worde.
As concerninge Nicene councell it is before anſwered / To the 6.and in that they decreed there ſhulde be but one / it conſequenquently folowithe that before the ſaide decree there were many.
And iff thoſe godly fathers were nowe lyuinge and did ſe how Antechriſte is eſtabliſhed vppon one / they woulde more gladly returne to the firſte order off many equall for the auoidinge off that moſte horrible miſchieff. As they then did for the auoidinge off Schiſmes appointe eueryevery citie one.
Negligence is no more in two then one. habilitie off welldoinge thinges is more in two then in one.To the 7. Yea, but though he did ſo then he will not doo ſo nowe I warrant yow. And ſikneſſe beinge ſo riffe in this citye / it is as muche as 2. can well doo / and one maie be ſicke. And one maie wil fully and ſuddenly leaue his flocke
Wherfore / two be neceſſary / ells / in the ſuddaine ſicknes off one onelie Miniſter / when manie other be ſike alſo / dewe viſitation off the ſike is not well ſeene to and preachinge omitted / as it hathe chaūced in oure churche / yea / and although we hauehave many. And therfore reaſon tellethe vsus that it is expedient to hauehave two rather then one.
Horne / &c. VponUpon the 8. Artic.
Item / where it is prouided that the Miniſters ſhall by themſelues or their deputies diſharge the ſermons and other their dueties when neceſſarie caſe ſhall ſo requyre: we ſaye it is ſuperfluous. for a neceſſarie cauſe nedethe not to be prouided for by lawe: beſides that the alowinge off deputies by lawe made for that purpoſe openethe a windowe off negligence to the miniſters in the executinge off their office.
Whitthead / &c.
A lawe dothe well prouide that ſuche maye be in a redynes whiche ſhall ſerue in neceſſitie / It is prouided in manye cities / by a lawe that in dreade off fier euerie man hauehave a bucket off water at his dore / whiche is a thinge neceſſarie. And vniuerſally the multitude off good lawes be grownded vppon cauſes neceſſarye. Wherfore / we think that poſition / that neceſſarie cauſes nede not to be prouided for by a lawe / ought to be taken for no lawe: and where it is alleadged that it openethe a windowe off negligence to the Miniſters / it is not ſo / for the appointemente off thoſe deputies apperteinethe more to the Seniors them to the Miniſters by oure diſcipline.
Horne &c. Artic. 10.
Item / in the Article of Catechiſme / we think it is ſuperfluous and tedious to hauehave 2. Catechiſmes in one after noone And alſo think that Maiſter Caluins Catechiſme ought to be vſed no otherwiſe with vsus then it is in Caluins churche that alloweth and vſeth the ſame.
Whithead &c.
The firſt Catechiſme is onelyonly ordred for the children and is but an examination and appoſinge off them. The other is not onelyonly for children but for all the congregation / &c.
Now / for ſo muche as the reaſons and anſwers are verye long and yet ſome off them repeated / in Maiſter Hornes obiections to the diſcipline whiche he offred vpp to the Magiſtrate / I will here paſſe them ouer and come to the ſaied obiections / and the anſwers off the church to the ſame.
Horne and the reſt off his ſide to the Magiſtrate.
WE come to that nowe (right honorable S.) whiche we were charged to doo by your commaundment and appointement: that for as much as for the apeaſinge and finall puttinge awaie off the contention betweene vsus and oure brethern / we ſhulde ſhewe why we diſſente from them / and cannot proceade in the ſame paſſage and waye that they doo: We ſhall ſo open vntounto yow oure defence and cauſe euen as we deſier to be iuſtified bothe in oure cōſciences and before god. Howbeit / we are verye ſory that your H. Hathe lym…ted vsus ſo ſhorte tyme / ſo as in a cauſe whiche (for the waightines ād difficultie off it) ought to be debated vppon with more leaſure / and verie manye thinges to be wayed to and fro / we muſte off force in a manner holde oure peace and ſay nothing.
But oure truſte is that your. H. will heareafter / remedy this diſpleaſure / in grauntinge vsus longer tyme that we maye more amplie hereafter confirme oure cauſe / whiche we are forced to ſet foorthe naked and with owte anie defence at all whiche we will moſte gladly doo and deſier that we maie freely be permitted to doo. This is the thinge that we often ſought for when we conſulted amonge oure brethern for the correctinge and amendinge off oure diſcipline / that / as longe as the matter and cauſe was in conſultation / we might ſo longe poliſhe and finiſhe more at large that was alleadged / to adde vntounto all oure ſentences / before the ſentences brought in / and to ſtrike owte and take awaie from them yff ought ſemed worthie to be taken awaie / albeit any thinge were put in / as firme and eſtabliſhed by oure ſubſcription: Whiche thinge we nowe eftſonnes deſier moſte earneſtly at your H. Handes. that for as muche as nothinge is yet concluded and determined by your H. there be no ſuch preiudice obiected vntounto oure cauſe / but that we maye confirme all oure allegations with firme and available argumentes.
And in deede / ſeinge we muſte nowe intreate in order off thoſe thinges whiche we reprehende and condemne in oure bretherns made Diſcipline: This we firſt reprehend vniuerſally / that any other alteration or innouation off thinges ſhuld be in oure affaiers then ſuche as ſerue onelyonly to the correctinge and amendinge off that Diſcipline whiche hathe byn heretofore receaued and vſed in oure churche. Wherin / we will ſeeme alſo ſomewhat to ſatiſfie oure bretherns curious mindes. This we ſaie / bicauſe there is almoſte nothinge that we think is to be innouated with ſuche poſte haſte and in dede / there are many and waightie cauſes whiche do alltogether pull vsus backe from theis innouations / and byd vsus ſtick ſtill to oure olde diſcipline / and not for the pleaſure off ſome men / and contrary alſo to your commaundement (geuen for the amendinge and not for the makinge off any newe Diſcipline) to contemne and caſte away that whiche ſo many hauehave alowed.