Reply Against Gilbert Brown, Section 7
Maiſter Gilbert Browne.
As for the written word, it is true that it is a moſt faithfull witnes (& it be not corrupted) to Chriſt & his Kirk, as our Sauiour teſtifies him ſelfe: Iohn. 5, …,of the whilk opinion there is ſundry Proteſtants, chiefely young Merchiſton in his diſcourſe vponupon the Reuelation in the 21 Propoſition, and other places. 2, Cor, 3, 6. Iohn. 6, 63, Iohn, 14.15, 16.But that it ought to bee iudge to decide all controuerſies in religion, Maiſter Iohn hes no Scripture for the ſame. It is the holy Ghoſt that muſt be iudge, and the holy writ muſt beare witnes thereto. For this cauſe the holy Ghoſt was giuen to the Kirk by the Father and the Son, that he might teach it all trueth This holy Ghoſt giues iudgment by the Paſtors of the true Kirk, as he did by the Apoſtles and Prieſtes at the councell of Ieruſalem. Act, 15, 1…, 2…,It hes pleaſed the holy Ghoſt and vsus (ſayes the Apoſtles) and ſo he hes euer done ſince the beginning of the Kirk, when it was trobled with hereſies and falſe doctrine As the councell of Nice, Conſtantinople, Epheſus & Chalcedon.
Maiſter Iohn Welſche his Reply.
You firſt here decline the Scripture as iudge, to decide all controuerſies in religion. And you are not the firſt that hes done this, but all your Romane clergie with you. And ſuppoſe there were not another thing to make the conſciences of men ſuſpect your religion that it is not found in the booke of God: yet this is a great preſumption that ye giuegive out of it your ſelues. For what may all men think of the ſame, but that if ye were perſwaded in your conſcience to iuſtify your religion to be from Ieſus Chriſt in his writtē word, ye would neuer decline the iudicatorie of it, and the declining of the ſame is an euident demonſtration that yee are priuie with your ſelues in your own conſciences that it is not from God in his writtē word. But wherfore ſay I that ye are priuy with your ſelues of this? Yee hauehave made it knowen to the world by your confeſſiō in your own bookes, that many of the cheife poynts of your religion controuerted betwene you and vsus, whilk yee maintaine, hes not their originall beginning, nor author in the Scriptures, but in your vnwritten traditions. So Petrus a Soto a papiſt of great name confeſſed. He cals all theſe obſeruations Apoſtolicke traditions whoſe beginning principium, In his booke againſt Brentiusorigo, & auhor cannot be found in the whole ſcripturs and then he reckons out a number of the chief and principal heads of their religion, ſaying, of the whilk ſort are the oblation of the ſacrifice of the altar, the inuocation or praiers to Saints, the praier for the dead, the ſupremacie of the Pope of Rome, the conſecration of the water in baptiſme, the whole ſacraments of orders, matrimonie, pennance, confirmation and extreame vnction, the merits of works, the neceſſitie of ſatiſfaction, In his Catechiſm cap. 5. de preceptis Eccleſiae.the nombering ouer of the ſinnes to the Preiſt. Caniſius a great Papiſt ſayes, that the worſhiping of images, the ſet faſtes and the ſortie dayes of lent, and all that are done in the ſacrifice of the maſſe, praiers and oblations for the dead, & alia and others, he ſaies all theſe are traditions becauſe they are ſik that they cannot be defended by the ſcripture. Lib 4. Panopliae cap. 100. & in ſine illi…s libri tab. 6.And Lindanus another great defender of your Romiſhe faith and religion, he reckons out for Traditions, that there are ſeuen Sacraments, the conſecration of the water and oyle in Baptiſme, the reall preſence of Chriſts fleſhe and blood in the Sacrament, Communion vnderunder one kinde, that the Lordes Supper is a Sacrifice, that it ſhould be kept and adored, priuate Maſſes, Confeſsion of ſinnes to the Prieſt, Satiſfactions, Pardons, Purgatorie, Part 3.& that Peter was in Rome. Martinus Pereſius another Papiſt nombers the ſingle lyfe of Prieſtes amongſt the vn-written Traditions. The trueth is ſtrong, that hes ſo farre glanced in the cō ſciences of ſome of you, and hes opened your mouthes to confeſſe and to ſet it downe in write to the worlde, that the principall heades of your Religion, yea the very foundation and ground of it, (as the ſupremacie of your Popes, and the Sacrifice of your Maſſe and the reſt) are vn-written Traditions whilk hes not the beginning, nor originall, nor authoritie in the Lords written word: and whilk cannot be defended by the ſame, as ſome of your ſelues hauehave confeſſed. So it is no wonder, Maiſter Gilbert, ſuppoſe ye refuſe to hauehave the controuerſies of Religion decyded by the ſame. Let the reader nowe iudge what he may thinke of your Religion, that hes not God in his Scripture in the principal & maine foundations thereof, as ſome of your ſelues hauehave confeſſed, to be the authour and beginner thereof. So what needes anie further proofe againſt their Religion? out of their own mouthes the falſet of their Religion is convicted. This therefore was the true cauſe (Maiſter Gilbert) wherefore ye refuſed to hauehave the controuerſies of religion decyded by the Scripture. And for this cauſe alſo hes your Kirk heaped vp ſo manie fals calumnies, accuſations, and blaſphemies againſt the ſame, calling it obſcure, a)Hoſius lib. 3 de authorit. Ec. contra. ſcript. Andradius lib. 2 orthod, explic. Lindanus in Panoplia ſua lib. 3. cap. 6darkſome, doubtſome, b)Bellarm de verbo Dei lib. 4. cap. 4.not neceſſarie but onlie profitable, imperfect, c)Iuel pag. 521. Defenſ. Apolog. & Lodouicus a canona dead inke, a dumb and dead thing, d)Pigius contro. 3 de Eccleſia.dum Iudges, e)Eckius.a black Goſpell, an inkine diuinitie, f)Pigius hierarch lib. 3 cap. 3.a noſe of waxe that may be drawne euerie way, g)Foxe pag. 804.containing in them diuers erroneous & damnable opinions, h)Hermannus a Papiſt.whilk were of no greater authoritie nor the fables of Aeſope without the approbation of the Kirk, and by the i)Pope Leo the 10. ex Iucl. defen Apolog. pag. 273Pope himſelf a fable of Chriſt. And for this cauſe alſo, did they hyde it vp in an vn-knowne language, forbidding the tranſlating of it in the vulgar language, and the reading of it by the people in their mother tongue, leaſt they ſhould hauehave perceiued the falſet of their religion, & ſo it ſhould hauehave loſt the credite at their hands. So ye hauehave bene wiſe in your generation, Sed Veritas tandem vincet: but the trueth ſhall ouercome at the laſt. You graunt it to be a witneſſe, but yet you deale ſubtillie, while as ye put in an exception, if it be not corrupted. Canus lib. 2. cap. 13, de locis Theologicis Lindanus lib. 1. c. 11, de optimo genere interpret Andradius def. fid. Trid, l. 4 Pagnin in epiſt, ad Clement, ſep Arias Montanus tom, 8. Biblii Regi… in praeſati…e.For if you be of that minde with your Kirk, and eſpeciallie with Canus, Lindanus, & the Colledge of Rhemes, you thinke the Hebrew and Greeke fountaines of the Scripture to be corrupted. And therefore it is decreed in the Councell of Trent, the olde Latine vulgare tranſlation to be authenticke, whilk notwithſtanding by the confeſsion of ſome Papiſts, as Andradius, Pagnine, and Arias Montanus, it hes miſſed the ſenſe and meaning of the holy Ghoſt ſometimes. So you not onelie put the Lord in his Scripture out of the benche, that he ſhould not iudge & giuegive out the ſentence of doome againſt your doctrine, but by this exception alſo ye remoue him from the barre, that his teſtimonie in the Hebrewe and Greeke fountaines againſt you, ſhould hauehave no credite. Let all men iudge now what preiudice ye giuegive out againſt your owne religion, when as yee will not admit the Lord in his word in the Hebrew and Greeke fountaines neither iudge nor witnes. But you ſay, I hauehave no Scripture for mee, that the Scripture ought to be iudge. What will ye ſay then to Ieſus Chriſt in the 12 chap. 48. verſe of the Goſpell of Saint Iohn, ſpeaking to ſik as ye are, He that refuſeth me and receiueth not my words, hath one that iudgeth him, the word that I hauehave ſpoken it ſhall iudge him in the laſt day. Vnleſſe now ye be a man of perdition, ye muſt confeſſe that the word of Ieſus Chriſt, (wherof ſo much is written as may make a man beleeue, and by beleeuing to get eternall life) is iudge and iudges preſentlie, and ſhall iudge alſo in the latter day.) Therefore the Apoſtle ſayes, that God ſhall iudge the ſecrets of mens hearts by Ieſus Chriſt, according to his Goſpell. So the Goſpell ſhal be the rule of that great iudgement in that great day and ſo is it the rule of his worſhip while we are in the way to that iudgement. Suppoſe you nowe decline the iudicatorie of the ſame heere, becauſe in your conſcience ye knowe, and your owne mouthes hauehave confeſſed it, that ye are not able to iuſtify your religion therby, yet nil ye will ye, ye ſhalbe iudged by the ſame worde in the laſt day. But whome will ye hauehave to be your iudge? Ye ſay, the holie Ghoſt. Bellarmine ſayes, that we and your Kirk aggrees in that, L b. 3. de verbi interpret, cap, 3.that the holy Ghoſt ſhould be ſupreame iudge of all controuerſies. But is not the Scripture the holy Ghoſts owne infallible voice and breath? So then when the Scripture is iudge, the holy Ghoſt is iudge, becauſe the Scripture is the immediate voice of the holy Ghoſt, & the holy Ghoſt hes giuen out, and giues out his iudgement in all controuerſies of religion in and by the Scripture: 2, Timot…, 3 16 Roman, 1….…and the holy Ghoſt illuminates the eyes of theſe that are fore-ordained to life, to ſe the trueth in the Scripture: and workes in their heart faith to apprehend it and beleeue it: and formes a ſpiritual iudgment in their hearts to try and iudge, 1. Corinth. ….1…for the ſpirituall man iudgeth all things. And all this he workes by the meanes of the Scripture: for it is the onlie meane and inſtrument whereby the holy Ghoſt workes faith in our hearts. Thus I reaſon therefore: He onlie can be iudge in controuerſies of religiō whoſe authority is ſik that none may appeale from the ſame whoſe iudgement is infallible true, who will not be partiall nor fauour parties: and who is able to conuict and perſwade the conſcience of the trueth, and make the partie to reſt in the ſame: But only the holy Ghoſt in and by the Scripture hes theſe properties, and no other: Therefore the holy Ghoſt in and by the Scripture is only iudge.
And whereas you ſay, that the holy write muſt beare witnes to it, Petrus a Soto in his book againſt Brentius, Caniſius, Lindanus, and Ma…t, Pereſius quoted beforewhat will you ſay then to all the chiefe points of your religion almoſte, whilk the learned and great defenders of your faith hes confeſſed, are vnwritten traditions whilk hes not their beginning nor authoritie from the Scripture, nor cannot be defended by the ſame? VponUpon the whilk I reaſon thus: That doctrine is not the holie Ghoſts, whilk the Scripture beares not witneſſe to: this ye ſay your ſelfe, for ye ſay, the Scripture muſt beare witneſſe to it: But al the chief points almoſt of your religion, as the ſupremacie of the Pope, the ſacrifice of the Maſſe, inuocation of Saints, the fiue baſtard Sacraments, the worſhipping of Images, Tranſubſtantiation, Communion vnderunder one kinde, Satisfactions, Pardons, Purgatorie, merites of workes &c. hes not their authoritie from the Scripture, nor cannot be defended by the ſame, as your owne Catholickes (as ye call them) teſtifies: Therefore your doctrine and religion is not the holie Ghoſts, and that by your owne teſtimonie. Nowe truelie (Maiſter Gilbert) I feare ye tyne your ſtyle, if you defend your religion no better nor this.
And whereas you ſay, that the holy Ghoſt giues out his iudgement by the Paſtors of the true Kirk: I graunt indeed that the Paſtors giues out publike ſentence in controuerſies of Religion, becauſe they are the Lords witneſſes, meſsingers, and mouthes to teſtifie, proclaime, interprete and diſcerne his truth from falſet. But firſt, the rule of this their iudgement ſhoulde be the word of God, vntounto the whilk they are bound in all their teſtimonies and iudgements, from the whilk if their iudgements ſwerue but an inche-broad, they are not the iudgements of the holie Ghoſt: ſo that all their decreetes and determinations in the worſhip of God, and man his ſaluation, ſhould onlie be receiued accordinglie as they aggree or diſſent from the ſame. For the Apoſtle (a)Galat. 1.8.pronounces him accurſed ſuppoſe he were an Angell that woulde preache another Goſpell then that quhilk he preached, and he preached (b)Act. 26, 22.nothing but out of the Scripture. But your Romaine Kirk by the contrarie ſayes, That their decreets and ſentences ſhould be taken without all tryall & examination becauſe whatſoeuer they decree (ſay they) in manners or doctrine, Bellarm. de Eccleſia lib. 1. de concil. cap. 18. & lib. 3. cap. 14whether they be comprehended in the Scripture, or not, they cannot erre.
Next if it be asked of you whome ye iudge to be the Paſtors of the true Kirk, you will anſwere (as ye do) that your Kirk is the only true Kirk, and your Biſhops and Popes the only true Paſtors, ſo that they only muſt be the iudge to end all controuerſies. Bellarm. lib. 3. de verbi interpret. cap. 5. & 9 & lib. 4. de Romano Pontif. cap. 2.And Bellarmine is plaine in this: for he ſaies the Pope is chiefe iudge in all controuerſies in religion, either he him ſelf alone or with his councell, and that in his iudgement and ſentence all men ſhould reſt, & he ſhould be obediently heard of all the faithfull in all matters of controuerſie, whether he can erre or not: and their canon law hes decreted that no man ſhould rebuke him, ſuppoſe he ſhould carrie with him innumerable ſoules to hell. Diſt. 40. cap. Si Papa Bellarm. lib. 1 de concil. cap, 18. and Rhemiſt annotat. in 1. Theſ. 2. ver, 12. & Ioannes Maria vert… tus editus anno 1561. & Hoſias lib, de expreſ. ver. Dei pag. 97And they teach that their decreets ſhould not be examined of any whether they be aggreable to the Scripture or not: but that they ſhould be receiued, as the expreſſe word of God and the Goſpell. But firſt iudge thou (reader) in what ſuſpition they hauehave their religion in their owne harts, they hauehave declined the holy Ghoſt ſpeaking in the Scripture, and that not only as iudge, but in the authentick Greeke and Hebrew as witnes. So their religion cannot ſtand, if the Lord be either as iudge in his Scripture to giuegive out ſentence of it, or as witnes in the authentick copies to hold his hand at the bar and depone againſt it. Now whome would they hauehave as Iudges? Their owne Paſtors and the Pope, and all their determinations to be receiued without a triall, as the Goſpell and expreſſe word of God as though their religion could not bee iuſtified, vnles the Fathers and forgers thereof, the Popes & Biſhops of Rome were ſet on the bench to be Iudges thereof. Now what a vnrighteous thing is this, both to be partie and Iudge? For the chief controuerſie is of themſelues, whether he be the Antichriſt or not? and his Miniſters and Kirk Antichriſtian or not? But what ſhew of reaſon can you hauehave for this? The prince of life, the ſonne of God, who is the righteous Iudge of the whole world, in that great controuerſie wherein it is called in queſtion whether he was the Meſſias or not, deſired not to be the Iudge, Ioh, 5, 3…for he ſaide if I teſtifie of my ſelf (much more if I iudge of my ſelf) my teſtimonie is not ſufficient but referred this controuerſie to the Scripture ſaying ſearch the Scriptures &c. And yet you that are but fleſhe and blood, Ioh. 5.39duſt and aſhes, yea monſters and incarnate diuels, as your owne writers and Councels hes teſtified of ſome of your Popes (Concilium Conſtantienſe) who may erre and hes bene heretickes, as ſome of your Popes hes beene, and that by your own teſtimonie, you wil not only beare witnes of your ſelues, but alſo be Iudges in the controuerſies of your ſelues, reiecting the iudgment of the holy Ghoſt in the Scripture. Al men, ſaies the Apoſtle, are lyars, how then ſhal I certainly know but they may lie: how ſhall my conſcience reſt in their iudgment: ſhall I hauehave no better warrant for my ſaluation nor the teſtimonies of your Biſhops and Popes who are but men and ſo may lie, who are party and ſo neuer will condemne them ſelues, and who of all men hes moſte foullie erred? What is this but to make the voyce of your Biſhops and Popes of greater authoritie nor the voice of God in his Scripture? for ſeeing it is the ſenſe of the Scripture that is called in controuerſie, and the ſenſe of the Scripture, is the Scripture it ſelf: and your doctrine is that I muſt embrace ſik and ſik interpretations of the Scripture that are called in controuerſie, and my conſcience muſt reſt in the ſame, without further tryall, becauſe he hes ſo decreed it: What is this, but not onelie to make him equal to the lord? (For God onlie hes that priuiledge to be beleeued, becauſe he ſo ſpeakes; mans teſtimonie ſo farre onelie is to be credited as it may be warrāted by the ſcripture:) but alſo to preferre his authoritie to the voice of God in his ſcripture, ſeeing he is iudge of the ſame, and not that onelie, but to hang my ſaluation vponupon his voice and teſtimonie? And ſeeing ye will hauehave them iudges, what is the cauſe that their Canons, lawes, and determinations, are not as authentick as the Scripture, and inſert in the Canon of the ſcripture? But let vsus ſee your reaſons. Firſt you ſay, That the holy Ghoſt was giuen to the Kirk by the Father and the Son, that he might teach it all truth. I grant this, that the holy Ghoſt is giuen to eueryevery one of the elect, aſwel Paſtor as people, to lead thē in all truth in ſo far as may bring them to ſaluation. And yet ye will not make eueryevery one of thē iudges: next eueryone of the elect may erre notwithſtāding of this promiſe, ſuppoſe not totally & finally and therefore cannot be Iudges of religion. Secondly, you alledge the example of the councell of the Apoſtles and Elders. It is true in that controuerſie that aroſe among the Chriſtians concerning the obſeruing of the ceremonies of the law of Moſes that the Apoſtles and Elders with the whole Kirk after reaſoning defined the ſame, & writes the ſame to be obſerved by the Diſciples euerie-where: but firſt they were Apoſtles and was infallibly gouerned by Gods Spirit that they could not erre in teaching and writing: but your Paſtors are not Apoſtles and may erre. Next they aſſemble with the Elders and the whole Kirk, and all with one accord defines. Act. 15, 12, 22 23 Bellarm. lib. 1 de concil. cap, 1….You in your councell excludes all except your Biſhops to be ordinarie Iudges to giuegive out iudgement and your Popes, neither Elder nor bretheren hauing power of voting with you. Thirdly, Act. 15. ver. 15.they define according to the Scripture (ſaying (a) as it is written &c.) This controuerſie to make vsus to vnderſtand and wee will not bee more nor blinde, that this rule ſhould be followed in all councels to determine in controuerſies according to the Scripture. VponUpon the whilk I reaſon if the Apoſtles who had that high meaſure of Gods ſpirit whilk neuer man had ſince, ſo that in writting and teaching they could not erre, if they, I ſay, did determine the controuerſies of religion according to the Scripture, how much more then are all Paſtors ſince who may erre both ſeuerally and ioyntly together in a councell, bound to follow the ſame rule? And whereas ye call their Elders Preiſts you ſtile them, not as the holy Ghoſt hes ſtiled them there, ſo their they are called foreign that is, Elders, and not foreign, that is, ſacrificing Preiſts as ye ſuppone. Your third reaſon is, the practiſe and cuſtome of the kirk in deciding the controuerſies of religion in councels: we grant that this is a verie cōmodious meane to ſearch & find out the trueth by the Scripture: for firſt the more they are that ſeekes the trueth, it is the more eaſily found. Next the conſent of many in determining a trueth wil be of greater authority to repres heretickes nor if it were aggreed vponupon only by a few. But yet they ſhould determine nothing but that whilk is warranted by the Scripture, and their determinations only in ſo far forth to be receiued as is aggreable to the ſame. And this we grant hes bene done in the councel of the primitiue Kirk. And therefore the Emperor Conſtantine ſpeaking to the fathers of the councel of Nice ſaies ſunt libri Prophetici et Apoſtolici qui apertè quid credendum ſit, docent &c. That is, there are the bookes of the Prophets and Apoſtles, who teacheth plainly what we ſhould beleeue. foreignAll contention therfore laid aſide, let vsus take the ſoueraigne deciſion of theſe thinges whilk are called in controuerſie, out of the ſcriptures whilk are inſpired by God. And this we grant, and this we craue. But that councels ought to determine any thing of their owne authoritie in matters of religion whilk binds the conſcience, without the warrant of the word, that we deny.