A Reply to a Pretended Christians Plea for the Church of Rome, Part 5
Of comparing the church of Rome with Israel.
MIne opposite laboured to strengthen his former reason frō Rev. 18. by saying, And so Jsrael is often called the Lords people in the time of their apostasie, 2 King. 9. 6. &c. I answered, the Question was not hereby prooved. For 1. The Antichristian church is Babylon, Rev. 16. 19 and 18. 2. and out of her, that is Babylon; are Gads people called, Rev 18. 4. Now to prove her Gods church, they flee to Jsrael, wheras the Gentiles were her true types, Rev. 11. 2. 9, 18. though all the wickednes and hypocrisie of apostate Israel, is also found in this Romish Babel.
His reply is, †Chr. ple… pag. 171.Let the reader judge, whether the point in hand, touching that phrase of Gods people to imply the covenant of God, be not proved by duplicate page duplicate page the example of Jsrael.
Ans. I leave it also to judgment, whether the Question touching the church of Rome be proved hereby. As for the phrase of Gods people in that church; I never denyed it to imply the covenant of God: to some visibly, as the Martyrs of Christ killed in that church; to other some according to the election of grace, which shal appeare when they obey theyr calling, and are come out of her: as before I shewed.
Moreover (he sayth) the question was about the Temple of God, 2. Thes. 2. wherabout he alleaged that terme and estate of the people of God, Rev. 18. 4. but J flee to Babylon &c.
Answ. A plaine evasion. The question was about the church of Rome, as before I shewed from his own graunt. To justifie her to be Gods church, he alleaged 2 Thes. 2. for one proof; Rev. 1…. for an other: Rev. 18. 4. for a third: and now the state of Israel for a fourth. His other repetitions, I have answered before. I alwayes distinguished in Rev. 11. between the Gentiles (the Antichristians) and the holy citie and court, which they have destroyed & troden under foot, and stil doe. Neyther have I denyed but the idolaters in Iudah and Israel, were types of Antichristians in part: but this I sayd and still say, that the more full and perfect type of them, is by the holy Ghost shewed us to be in the Sodomites, Egyptians and Babylonians, Rev. 11. & 17. & 18. As the Priests of Aaron were types of Christ, but Melchisedek was a more full and perfect type of him; as the Apostle proveth in Heb. 7.
Againe, if that which he striveth for, were granted him, namely that Israel in apostasie typed out Antichristians; and that Israel was notwithstanding a true church: yet wil it not follow therefore the Antichristian church of Rome, is a true church also. For the apostasie and idolatrie of Rome, is farr greater then Israels, as I have †Arrow. ag. lolat. ch. 3. & 5.elswhere shewed; and can easily confirme against any that shall gainsay it. 2. Mr. Io. himself maketh “1 Macab. 1.Antiochus and his captaines, (which were of the worst sort of heathens,) to be types and figures of the Pope and his hierarchie (which are the Bishops priests and Deacons of the church of Rome,) as before we have seen. Yet would he not admitt of this conclusion; therfore the Bishops Priests and Deacons of the church of Rome are heathens; as was Antiochus. So his reasoning for Israel, though it were true; will be no sound proof for Rome. Types, figures and similitudes hold in some things, not in all: and it is a very easy thing to deceive men by figures, similies, allegories. But the plaine doctrines in the scripture, they are a sure ground: and if any doe wrest a type or similitude against them, it is to be rejected, what colour soever it hath. Now mine opposite reasoneth not from these doctrines; which would soon end the strife. For the scripture plainely sayth, that Antichrist, the man of syn, is the son of perdition, and all that beleeve his lyes and folow him are damned. 2 Thes. 2. 3. 10. 11. 12. That Antichrist is a lyar, denying both the Father and the Son, 1 Ioh, 2. 22. they that are of God, doe overcome him: they that are of the world, hear him. Hereby is knowen the spirit of trueth, and the spirit of errour; 1 Joh. 4. 3.—6. They that belong to the Lamb (Christ) on mount Sion, have his Fathers name written on their foreheads, Rev. 14. 1. and worship not the beast, nor receive his mark, Rev. 20. 4. but they that belong to Antichrist, and have not their names written in the book of life, doe worship the beast, and receive his mark, and shalbe tormented for ever, Rev. 13. 8. 16. & 14. 9. 10. 11. But the church of Rome beleeveth Antichrists lyes, worshipeth the Beast and his idols, receiveth his mark, and is partaker of all his abominations. Who now without open injurie, to the word of God, can make this people the true church of Christ, and in the visible covenant of grace? On the other hand, my Opposites reasons are drawen from that figurative phrase the Temple of God, 2 Thes. 2. and the type of apostate Israel; and an objection cast in the way to stumble at, that else we must be baptised againe: (as if men that can not tell how to avoyd an inconvenience, must run into a mischief; to justifie those whom God cōdemneth.) And upon these and the like grounds, are his reasons framed; (as may be seen throughout his work;) with some few props of humane authoritie, to undershore them.
Though this brief answer might serve unto all his discourse about the state of Israel: yet for to help the weak reader, that might stumble at some things layd in his way; I wil annex a few moe observations.
VnderUnder his wonted title of †Chr. ple… ▪ pag. 172.Errours, evasions, contradictions &c, wherwith he chargeth me, this is 1. That the Temple of God 2 Thes. 2. 4. is no more Gods temple, then Ieroboams idol temples in Jsrael, and Bels temple in Babylon: yet also J sayd, it was to be understood of Gods church & people invaded and destroyed by Antichrist &c.
Answ. This his tautologie, I have before answered; and cleared my self both of errour and contradiction. For that Antichrist should destroy Gods temple and church, I proved by the example of the Babylonians burning the Citie & Temple of God, and captiving his people: and by the measuring of the new building, Rev. 11. That this being doen, Antichrist should have an other Temple and church of his own frame, which he should call Gods and Christs; I shewed by the Beast arising from the sea, and from the earth, with hornes like the Lamb (Christ) Rev. 13. which beast is a kingdom spiritual or ecclesiastical politie, a great whore, Rev. 17. by Antichrist adified, adorned, mainteyned: which stil he pretendeth to be the ancient catholik church, and temple of God.
Now further for Ieroboam that drew Israel into syn, he “Chr. plea pag. 161.confesseth that he was a type of Antichrist: though he sheweth not wherin. But Ieroboams syn was in making a new House (or Temple) and a new altar to sacrifice in unto God, and new priests, with new signes, as Calves to worship God by: 1 King. 12. In these things then he must be a type of Antichrist: who accordingly (if he answereth to his figure) must erect a new Temple, altar, preisthood and signes, differing from Christs, as in deed he hath doen. And that idolatrous house erected for the worship of the true God, not onelyonly the Israelites, but the Prophet Amos, calleth the house (that is the Temple) of their god, Am. 2. 8. as Paul calleth the house wherin Antichrist sitteth, the temple of God, 2 Thes. 2. yet this man blameth me for comparing that Temple with Ieroboams idol temples, which Israel builded when he forgat his Maker, Hos. 8. 14. how justly, let men of judgment consider.
2. His 2. exception is about Babylon, and the Beast, that I make them one with the Church of Rome, and distinguish not Babylon from Sion. This I have before cleared: shewing that the church of Rome is the whore of Babylon, Rev. 17. and I distinguish it from Sion, which he confoundeth with Babylon, being himself in that blame which he would impute unto me. And to teach that God calleth us out of any civil state or goverment, I have formerly proed to be erroneous and seditious, contrary to the Apostles, Rom. 13. 1 Pet. 2.
3. That Antichrists Apostasie and the church of Rome with him, is much worse then Ieroboams and Israels with him; I constantly affirme: and let the synns of them both be compared, and it wil soon appear. Did Ieroboam pray unto creatures, as the church of Rome doth to innumerable, even all Saincts and Angels, and some mere fictions? Did Ieroboam hold any of those manifold blasphemous heresies now holden in the church of Rome? Nay let the very Babylonians of old be taken: and I wil undertake to prove that the church of Rome is not behinde them, but in respect of the light of the Gospel revealed by Christ, much worse.
4. I grant that in Pauls time the church of Rome was set in the way of God, and soon after fell into apostasie: but where he chargeth me to say, that the ordinances of God stil reteyned in that church are stollen; he wrongeth me. For I acknowledge not this church now, to be that which was in Pauls time, but a counterfeit, arisen since: a theif, partner with Antichrist, in robbing the church, (as the †2 King. 2…Babylonians robbed the Temple,) and abusing the ordinances therof to their perdition. But then he objecteth.
Jf the church of Rome should repent &c. they should not reteyn the baptisme and other ordinances of God which she hath, but must part with them seing they are stollen goods. And here he insulteth, asking the Anabaptists, how they can ever be thankfull ynough to me, for thus pleading their cause &c.
Answ. If the Babylonians should have repented, and joyned to the church of God at Ierusalem: they there might have had an holy and lawful use of Gods vessels, altars &c, which before they had stollen, and abused: so may these spirituall Babylonians have at this day, if God give them grace to repent, & joyne unto Sion. Here then the Anabaptists wil conne mine opposite but little thank for his gratulation.
5. He calleth it my like errour and iniquitie, to match baptisme and the other ordinances of God in the church of Rome, with the feasts worship and sacrifices of the heathen, who were *Eph. 2. 1… 12.without Christ and without God &c. These assertions he sayth are miserable and Anabaptistical.
Answ. But why then doth he not refute them by the word of truth? I could as easily call his assertions miserable and Papisticall: but he would take that for no sound conviction. And had he but related mine own words (in that 85. page of my book,) the reader might have seen how little cause he had to exclaime▪ …. I spake not generally of the heathens feasts, worship and sacrifices, as he would intimate to his reader: but distinctly of those which had been ordeyned of God, differing from other of their own devisings. 2. I sayd, the heathens kept Gods ordinance, as well as Rome with their sacrifice of the Mass. He telleth his reader, I match the baptisme &c in Rome, with the worship and sacrifices of the heathen. Is this good dealing so to change my words? But sundry such injuries I must beare. And why may we think, doth he in sted of the Lords supper, (now turned into a Romish mass) put baptisme? But because he thinketh that he hath colour to plead for one sacrament more then for an other. In handling that point of their baptisme, †Animadv. …g. 73. 74.I instanced this other seale, our Lords supper; and an other ordinance of God, Excommunication: both which he passeth over: yea every where when it cometh in his way, he shunneth it throughout his book, as in this place. He knew well, it was as a red hot yron that would burn his fingers. But of it, we shal speak more, when we come to handle their baptisme. 3. To his reason, I answer: the heathens were in deed without Christ and without God, Eph. 2. and so are these Romish Antichristians, or els the Apostle hath not given us a true rule to discerne Antichrist by, that he denyeth both the Father and the Son: 1 Joh. 2. 22. The hethens reteyned the knowledge of the true God in some mesure, as their writings manifest; and worshiped ignorantly the true God whom th'Apostles preached, Act. 17. 23. so the Antichristians ignorantly worship the true God whom we preach and beleeve; and as ignorantly (by stocks and stones, and prayers in an unknowen tongue like Parrats) as did the heathens of old. The hethens reteyned a knowledge of Christ the Redeemer, figured in the sacrifices ordeyned of God: so, the Antichristians reteyn a knowledge of Christ in name, and signified in the sacraments; but as impiously doe they abuse them by holding they conferr grace ex opere operato, by the work doen, and other iniquities mixed with them, as did the heathens; and by beleeving and worshiping a Christ made of bread, they surpass the heathens in ignorance and idolatrie.
Finally, had mine opposite read Mr. Bezaes larger annotations on Eph. 2. as he read him on 2 Thes. 2. he might have seen the Antichristians very litle inferiour to the heathens without God, even in Mr. Bezaes judgment; which yet I suppose he would not have called miserable and Anabaptisticall, as he doeth in me.
Touching the state of Israel, in my discourse (as he calleth it) he *Chr. plea …g. 174.confesseth I have many truthes which he also holdeth: yet some sleightes, errors &c also mixed: which he instanceth. Seing he yeildeth the rest for truthes▪ I referr the reader to the things *Animad pag. 87. &there written; which being observed, he may the better judge of our controversie. As first, that we both agree, The covenant between God & man, was alwayes conditional: by the Law, if they †Rom. 10.did his commandments they should live by them; if they “Gal. 3. 1…continued not in all things written in the Law to doe them, they were cursed. By the Gospel, *Ioh. 3. 3…he that beleeveth in the Son of God hath everlasting life, and he that obeyeth not the Son, shall not see life. And all the figurative covenants that Jsrael had, were also conditional, †Levit. 2… Deut. 28.blessings promised to the obedient, and curses to the transgressors. 2. That mans breaking of the covenant, is alwayes “Lev. 26. 1▪by syn; and so God never breaketh covenant. But by punishing and putting from him the rebellious; we may say *Zach. 1 10. Psal. 8▪ 39.God breaketh or disanulleth the covenant. Whensoever a people by syn forsake God, and refuse his word calling them to repentance: they cannot have themselves, neyther can other men have concerning them any assurance of their salvation, or that they abide in the covenant of his grace. For whosoever abideth in him, †1 Ioh. 3. …he synneth not: whosoever synneth hath not seen him, neyther knowen him. Be it man or woman or family or tribe, which turne their hart from the Lord, to serve other gods, though they bless themselves in their harts &c. the Lord wil not be mercifull unto them. Deut. 29. 18. 19. 20. These things being plaine by the scriptures, and by him yeilded; with many other things, which I wil not here repeate: he though he could not contradict, yet intimateth notable heresie against me, Whether J doe not in some things, speak so about the covenant, as may establish the righteousnes of works, in some respect. Alwayes remembring that the covenant of God, wherof we speak is this, to Abraham, J wilbe a God to thee and to thy seed after thee; and J wilbe your God, and ye shalbe my people, Gen. 17. 7. & 22. 18. Hos. 2. 23. Zach. 13. 9. with Act. 2. 39. & 3. 25. Rom. 9. 25. 26.
Answ. As I from my hart abhorre that heresie of righteousnes by the works of the Law, as that which maketh Christs death in vaine, and abolisheth grace, Gal. 2. 21. Rom. 11. 6. so I trust no equal reader wil gather any such doctrine frō my writings; though this man (without all proof) insinuateth it more then once against me. 2. In repeating the covenant, he useth not plainnes, I might say, sinceritie. For those words in Gen. 17. 7. are but one part of the covenant, to weet, on Gods behalf: he should have expressed the stipulation foregoing, in vers. 1. 2. walke before me, and be thou perfect, and J wil make my covenant between me and thee: and after in vers. 9. Thou shalt keep my covenant therfore &c. So the other scripture… by him cited, doe not so fully express the covenant on both parts, as doth Heb. 8. 10. 11. 12. Where both forgivenes of synns, to justification, and writing of the Law in our harts to sanctification and obedience, are shewed to be the covenant of Gods grace with men.
He *Chr. plea …ag. 175.taxeth me as for error and contradiction, in seeking to perswade, that God brake the covenant on his part with Jsrael, when all the tribes were togither (Animadvers. p. 88) and yet after (in the same page,) say, that whiles Jsrael was one, they continued Gods church.
Answ. Herein he wrongeth me, (as he too often useth,) and keepeth not my words or meaning, neyther taketh away the reasons from the scripture which I there set down. I spake not of The covenant in generall, as he would give his reader to understand; but of a covenant, and a condition of the covenant. And what I sayd, I proved, from Exod. 6. 4. 5.—8. J have stablished my covenant with them, to give them the land of Canaan &c. Then God brought them to the borders of the counttie, and sayd, Loe the land is before you, goe up and possess it, Deut. 1. 20. 21. but they †v. 28. 26. …2.were afrayd, and would not goe up, through their unbeleef. Then the Lord was presently *v. 34. 35.wroth, and swore that not one of those transgressors should see that good land: neyther did they, but dyed in the wildernes, Deut. 2. 1. &c. Heb. 3. 17—19. Againe I instanced a condition of the “Exod. 34. …0. 11.covenant on Gods part, that he would cast out the Canaanites &c, and on Israels part, that *v. 12. &c.they should make no compact with the inhabitants. But when they brake covenant, and agreed with them †Iudg. 1. …7. - 33.for tribute; the Lord also presently brake with them, saying, J sayd, J wil never break my covenant with you but you have not obeyed my voice, wherfore J say also, J wil not cast them out before you &c. Iudg. 2. 1. 2. 3. 20. 21▪ Now what sayth mine opposite to these things: are they not so? He neyther yeildeth to the trueth, neyther could stand before it: but shunning to meddle with my reasons, turneth upon me who shewed them; as the reader hath seen: and in sted of a covenant, and a condition of the covenant, setteth down the covenant, meaning the covenant of grace and salvation: wheras notwithstanding the breaking of these covenants & conditions and other the like, the people by repentance, held fast through faith the covenant of grace. For Moses †Num. 20. …2. Deut. 32. …0. 51. 54.and Aaron and many other, who for their synns could not come into the land of Canaan, yet are in heaven through the covenant of grace. And so though some conditions of the covenant were broken, both on their part and on Gods, yet they being brought to repentance continued his church. That herein I neyther wrote error, nor contradicted my self, as he would perswade against me. And these things that fell out in Israel on both parts, touching these figurative promises: doe teach us the like touching the spiritual promises of eternal life, if men break concerning them; as in repentance, faith and holynes, without which men perish, and shall never see God; Luke 13. 3. Act. 2. 38. Mar. 16. 16. Heb. 12. 14.
He next findeth fault, †Chr. pl… pag. 175.That J shuffle togither the estates of Jsrael, when they were one body, and when they were rent in two. Also whilest Israel was in the land and presence of the Lord, and when they were cast out of his house and presence. Animadv. p. 88. 89. 90. 91.
Answ. The first is a wrong imputation, as the reader may see in the place of my book by him cited. I there blame him for not distinguishing their estate, when they were one, and when they were rent asunder. And though I pass from one to an other, as I was led by answering him, yet confound I them not. But here he dealeth as in the former point: answereth not my reasons wherby I convinced him of misapplying his diverse respects, contrary to the words and meaning of the scriptures; and to avoyd if he could his deserved blame, checketh me, but disproveth not what I wrote. Let the reader compare what we both have sayd.
For the second, I confess I did not so distinctly handle the state of Israel whiles they were in the land, and after when they were put out, as I should and would have doen, had I fore-seen his pressing of every leight thing against me. The reason hereof was, that it skilleth not for the point in controversie, (to weet their Circumcision) whether we respect them before they were cast out or after, for they were not circumcised the second time in eyther estate. And this mine opposite himself sheweth even in this his last book, where he dealeth against the Anabaptists. For in his Chr. plea p. 27. 28. he sayth, Circumcision once received in the apostasie of Israel, was not repeated againe at their returning to the Lord, and leaving of their idolatrous wayes &c: and quoteth among other scriptures, 2 Chron. 30 ch. and Ezr. 6. 19. 20. 21. Of which, the one speaketh of them that returned in Ezekiahs dayes, whiles the Israelites were in the land: the other of them that had been dispersed among the heathens, and returned. So I, where I *Animadv. …ag. 70.treat of Baptisme, handle those estates indistinctly: which is made a great matter against me, by him that doeth the same thing himself against others. But now, I wil speak of them a part.
The Israelites that rent themselves from Iudah, I take to be a false church; and so continued whiles they dwelt in the land. After they were dispersed, and were no church.
The first, I shew thus. The twelve tribes by Gods institution were all one church, both in Moses time when they had the Tabernacle among them, and encamped all round about it, in the order set of God, Num. 2. and after in the land of Canaan, whiles the Tabernacle stood, & when the Temple was built by Solomon: both which were signes of Gods presence and dwelling with his church. And to keep them in this unitie, he commanded all the men of Israel to come joyntly togither from all parts of the land, three times every yere, to worship him and keep their solemne feasts, in that one place which he should choose: and at all other times to offer their sacrifices there, and in no other place; and thither onelyonly to bring their first fruits, their commanded and their voluntarie oblations; Exod. 23. 14.—17. 19. Deut. 12. 5. 6. 7. Who so did otherweise, blood was imputed unto that man, and he should be cut off from among his people; to keep the people from offring their sacrifices unto Divils, Levit. 17. 3. 4. 7.
Now when the ten tribes revolted and made Ieroboam king, then Israel forgat his maker and builded Temples, Hos. 8. 14. For Ieroboam took counsel and made two calves of gold, and sayd unto them; Jt is too much for you to goe up to Jerusalem; Behold thy gods ô Jsrael, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt; and he set the one in Bethel, and the other he put in Dan: and this thing became a syn. And he made an house of hye places, and made priests of the lowest of the people, which were not of the sonns of Levi. And he offred on the Altar, which he had made in Bethel. 1 King. 12. 28.—33. And having cast off the Lords Priests & Levites, Ieroboam ordeyned him priests for the hie places, and for the Divils and for the calves which he had made: but such of all the tribes of Israel, as set their harts to seek the Lord God of Jsrael, went to Jerusalem, to sacrifice unto the Lord God of their fathers: 2 Chron. 11. 14. 15. 16. Thus of one *Psal. 9. 14.daughter of Sion, (one …hurch) there became †Ezek. 23. 2.two women, or daughters: the one, to weet Jerusalem (the tribe of Iudah) the Lord named “vers. 4.Aholibah, that is, My Tabernacle in her; the other, Samaria (the ten tribes) he named Aholah, that is her own tabernacle. So Israel was without the true God, and without a teaching Preist, and without Law, 2 Chron. 15. 3. and the Lord was not with Jsrael: 2 Chron. 25. 7. but at their first falling away, he threatned by his Prophets, that because Ieroboam had made himself other gods, and molten images, and cast the Lord behind his back, Ieroboams house should be cut off, and taken away a… dung; and the Lord would smite Israel, and root them up out of that good land which he gave to their fathers, and would s…arter them beyond the river: 1 King. 14. 9.—15. Yet for to shew his patience towards his people, (whom he had chosen for his, above all peoples of the earth,) and for to save his elect among them, and to make the rest the more inexcusable, he forbare them many yeres: and by all the Prophets, and all the Seers sayd unto them, Turne ye from your evil wayes, and keep my commandements & my statutes: yet they would not heare, but hardned their necks, and beleeved not in the Lord their God; but rejected his statutes and his Covenant that he made with their fathers; and folowed vanitie, and became vaine, and went after the heathen that were round about them; and left all the commandements of the Lord their God: therfore the Lord was very angrie with Jsrael, and removed them out of his sight. 2 King. 17. 13.—18.
From these and other the like testimonies against this people, I gather, that from the time they departed from the Lord, from his Temple, altars and holy signes of his presence with his people in Christ; from his Priests and the lawfull sacrifices at Ierusalem, which were figures of Christ, and from the communion of their brethren the Iewes (which *Hos. 11. 12.remayned the church of Christ;) and made a new Temple, altar, priesthood and church of humane and synfull institution: that this their church, Temple, preisthood and worship were false. For that is trueth which agreeth with the will and †Ioh. 17. … ▪word of God: all humane devices in religion are lyes and vanities.
If it be …ayd, the Lord himself rent the kingdom from Solomons son, and gave it to Ieroboam, 1 King. 11. 29. 31. and therfore this second church, was also of divine institution. I answer; though God divided the kingdom, yet he divided not the church: there might have been twelve kings over the twelve tribes, (as there were of old twelve princes, Numb. 1. 5.—16.) and▪ yet they should have been one Church. The kingdom or Civil state, is an ordinance immediately under God, Rom. 13. the church or ecclesiastical state is an ordinance immediately under Christ the mediator, and he is the head of the bodie the church, Colos. 1. 18. The civil state is above the ecclesiastical, as *1 Cor. 21. 3.God is the head of Christ: therfore the Church is to be subject to the Magistrate, the higher power, the minister of God, though he be an heathen, Rom. 13. 1. &c. 1 Pet. 2. 13. 14. for the civil state is not taken away by difference of religion, error, heresie or any apostasie from Christ: but the ecclesiastical state is by such things dissolved, the Candlestick (the church) may be removed, and of a Church of Christ, become a Synagogue of Satan: 1 Joh. 2. 18. 19. Rev. 2. 5. 9. In their civil state, the Israelites were to be subject unto Nebuchadnezar an heathen, when he conquered them, Ier. 27. 6. 8. 12. but for their ecclesiastical estate they might never submitt to Nebuchadnezars church, or priests, nor offer to God upon any of his altars. So to Ieroboam as king they might be subject, without dissolving their communion in the mysteries of Christ, set in the Temple, altars, priests &c at Ierusalem. Thus this new church and ministerie arising from Ieroboams syn, was not of God; and therfore could not possibly be a true church, which alwayes is a divine ordinance in Christ the head of the same.
Touching their second estate, after that God had called them back unto him †2. King. 17 3. 14.by all his Prophets, but they would not heare; and chastised them *Lev. 26. 8. 24. 28.seven times, and seven (that is many) times for their sinns; hee “v. 32. 33.brought the land into desolation, and scattred them among the heathen; so †Lev. 18. 8.the land did spue them out, as it spued out the heathens that were before them: the Lord did put her away, and gave her a bill of divorce, Jer 3. 8. and they were Lo-ammi, not Gods people, neither was he their God, Hos. 1. 9. they were not his wife, neither was he their husband, Hos. 2. 2. In which estate, they abiding *Hos. 3. 4.without King, Prince, sacrifice, image, ephod, or Teraphim, were as “Ier. 50. 17scattred sheepe, devoured by the King of Assyria: and therefore no Church, nor Common wealth, but so broken, that they were not a people. Esai. 7. 8.
The next errour he chargeth me with is; †Chr. plea pag. 175.that I say, If they cannot prove Babylon in Chaldea to be Gods Church, when the Iewes were there captived, they shall never prove the Temple of God spoken of in 2. Thes. 2. 4. to be Gods true Church, &c.
Answ. He hath falsified my words, and not answered my reason. Thus I wrote; *Animadv. 91. 92.Their applying of these things to our times, is not in all poynts aright. For though in this, Antichrists synagogue and Israels doe agree, that neither be Gods true Church: yet the perfect type of Rome, as God describeth it, is Babylon, Rev 17. 18. and we should not be wiser then God. And if they cannot prove Babylon then to be Gods true Church, which was not more deep in sin then now Antichrist is, and which citie had †Psal. 87. 4.promise and *1. Pet. 5. 13.performance of merciemercy in Christ, at the end, they shal never prove this synagogue of Satan to be Gods true Church, which hath no promise of recovery or merciemercy, but prophesies and threatnings of assured destruction; Numb. 24. 24. Rev. 14. 9. 10. & 18. 8 21. & 19 20. 21. 2. Thess. 2. 8. 12.
Thus men may see what manner of replies he hath made unto me; and when he hath no other thing to say, he flyeth to his wonted refuge The Temple of God, and sayth our question and reasoning was about it; as if it were not about the Church of Rome, but about a phrase, that we contended. But hereof I have spoken at large.
For the word Church taken sometime largely, sometime strictly, he †Chr. plea pag. 176.taxeth me for omitting this.
Answ. Why should I not omit that whereabout is no controversie. That which Keckerman (whom he citeth) sayth of the Church largely taken, to comprehend both the elect and hypocrites, and strictly taken, to comprehend the elect onelyonly, I acknowledge for truth. But it is nothing to our controversie.
For his double regard of apostate Churches, and so of Israel, I yeilded to him that which was truth, and shewed wherein he missed: wherto as he replieth not, *Chr. plea pag. 177.but referreth it to the readers judgment: so do I.
I shewed †Animadv pag. 93.how the Iewes at this day professing the God of Israel, and praying to him, and reading his Law in their synagogues, may be called Gods people in comparison of Pagans that know not God or his scriptures at all, but worship the Sun and Moon, and some the Divil by open profession: yet the Iewes now are not actually in the covenant of grace. And the the Turks that professe one *Alcoran Azoar. 2. 3. 67. 31.immutable living, true, most wise and high God; and Christ to be sent of God with his Gospel and that he is the Breath or Spirit of God; may in comparison of Julian the Apostata, and Atheists, be called the people of God and Christians, though indeed they be farr from being either. So the church of Rome, in comparison with Turkes and Paynims may be called Christians, but are indeed false Christians, &c. To that of the Jewes, he answereth nothing. For the Turks, he †Chr. plea pag. 178.maketh it nothing to the purpose, seeing they professe not Christ to be the Son of God, made Man, that died for our synns, as the Church of Rome professeth, &c.
Answ. It is to the purpose, that in divers respects, and in comparison with Atheists, and people that professe not God, or Christ at all: they that are not indeed Gods people, or true Christians, may be called Gods people and Christians: so his double respect… help him nothing. And for the Church of Rome, I shewed them to be in comparison with Turks, neerer Christ; and so the doctrine there, neerer to salvation then the Mahometans: and I doubt not but God by it saveth some chosen therein: which yet justifieth not their estate to be a true Christian Church; as the reprobates in the true Church, condemne not the estate thereof.
I *Animadv. pag. 94.shewed by many instances, the Church of Rome to be in some things more grosse idolaters then either Iewes or Turkes, or heathens. This he being not able to deny, opposeth, †Chr. plea pag. 178.how Jerusalem justified Samaria and Sodom, Ezek. 16. Jer. 3. That Tyre, Sidon, and Sodom, shal have easier judgement then Chorazin, Bethsaida, and Capernaum. Mat. 11. yet these cities were the Churches and people of God.
Answ. For Ierusalem, the Prophets speak of it sometime as generally wicked; when yet there were many godly, that partaked not with her synns, Ezek. 9. 4. Such as were more openly wicked then Samaria and Sodom, I deny them to be actually then in the covenant of grace to mans judgement; for the Lord appointed them to destruction, Ezek. 9. The cities of Israel in Christs time, were a part of the true Church of the Iewes: yet for refusing Christ, they should have heavier judgement then the heathens: so shall hypocrites in every true Church, have greater punishment then many heathens. But comparison should be made of Church with Church, not of some in the true Church, with the estate of a false church. And that the generall state of the Church of Rome is Antichristian, and so denieth indeed *1. Ioh. 2. 22both the Father and the Son; is before proved. And they generally these many years, hauehave been more grosse idolaters then either Iewes or Turks: therefore their profession of Christ in name, will not prove them to be in the covenant of grace. God testifieth to the Churches of Galatia, Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the Law; ye are fallen from grace, Gal. 5. 4. If they that would be justified by the Law of God, and works of the same, fell from grace: much more they that will be justified by the law of Antichrist, and wicked workes, are fallen from grace, and have no benefit by Christ. But such is the generall faith of the Church of Rome, beleeving to be justified by the idolatrous workes, which they walk in as they are taught by the Man of Syn, that sitteth as God, in the Temple of God, carrying them to destruction.
Whereas to prove the Temple of God 2. Thes. 2. which he expoundeth the Church of Rome, to be the true Church, he alleaged Zach. 6. 12. 13. Eph. 2. 11. &c. 2. Cor. 6. 16. Rev. 11. 19. I †Animadv pag. 94.shewed how he misapplied the Scriptures: he repeateth his former answers, which I have formerly resuted. And now he addeth; But to put him from his shifts, let him tel us plainly, when Paul sayth, The Temple of God hath not agreement with Idols, 2. Cor. 6. 16. if yet there be idols set in the Temple of God, as was in the time of Manasseh and Antiochus, whether now it ceased to be the Temple of God or not. The Scripture sheweth it is the Temple of God notwithstanding. 2. King. 21. 7. Ier. 50. 28. Ezek. 8. 5. 10. 16. Dan. 11. 31. 38.
Answ. I tell them plainly, that that Temple of God which the prophets speak of, had no agreement with idols; though the wicked set up idols in it by force. But the Church of Rome (which these call the Temple of God) hath agreement with idols, if images of silver and gold, wood and stone, a wheaten god in the Masse, and the man of syn which sitteth as God, be idols. For these idols the Church of Rome worshipeth and serveth most synfully: but the Temple of God which the Prophets speake of, never worshiped the Idols set up in it, nor had accord with them. But this is a shift of shifts, and a notorious sophisme in mine opposite, to reason from the materiall Temple of God then, which onelyonly suffered that abuse; to the spirituall Temple, the Church or people now, which are voluntary agents, & worshipers of Idols. By which false argumentation he might even as well conclude, that if the Papists should turn flat Pagans of Antiochus religion, and serve his idols, and be of his faith: yet they should continue the true Church and people of God notwithstanding: because the Temple then, continued Gods true Temple, notwithstanding all that Antiochus did thereto.
The *Chr. plea pag. 179.next point, touching their baptisme, I will anone treat of in particular.
For his †Ibid. p. 18objection of salvation now had in the Church of Rome, &c. it was his *pag. 121.second main argument for that Church, which I have before answered: he after his manner repeateth againe and againe the same things, so lengthening his work. I referr the reader to that answer I gave †…. 6. 7. &c.before.
Other things whereby I *Animadv. …. 96.convinced his doctrine, to beat the path for all licentiousnes, contrary to the plaine Scriptures, which shew, that he that committeth sin is of the Divil; and we know that whosoever is born of God, sinneth not, &c. 1. Ioh. 3. 8. & 5. 18. whereas (if that he plead for be true) men may be as prophane as Esau, filthy in life as Sodom, idolatrous and sinfull as the Aegyptians and Babylonians, and yet if they wil call themselves Christians, and be outwardly baptized, &c. they shalbe justified as Gods true Church, they and their seed in his covenant of grace, &c. which is to strengthen the hands of the wicked, that he should not returne from his wickednes, by promising him life. Ezek 13. 22. These and other like things, he passeth over, without word of answer. It is ynough for him to cry, the Temple of God, the Temple of God; and to insist upon phrases which may diversly be understood. Whereas the sound plea should be from the doctrines of faith and sanctification of life according; by which the Apostles teach us to discern true Christians from false. And who, that seeketh after the truth, would not rather insist upon these main grounds taught by our Saviour and his Apostles? Verily, I judge this pleading for Rome, to be an exceeding great sin; because it by consequence overthroweth both faith and holines: seeing misbeleevers and most synfull idolaters as ever were on earth, are justified to be Gods true Church notwithstanding, and in his covenant of grace, contrary to the whole Testament of Christ. It is to make a wide gate and broad way into heaven, and will make men secure in all syn: if they that serve the Man of syn himselfe, worship his idols, beleeve in his heresies, and walk in his wicked works, which hope to merit salvation by them in heaven: may be sayd to be true Christians, and in the state of grace.