Answer to John De Albines, Answer to discourse · Chapter 34
The XXXIIII. Chapter.
IF that the ſence of this prouerbe be harde for you to diſgeſt, I a… content to ſtaie vntill your ſtomacke be ſomewhat better, aſſuring my ſelfe that you can interprete it no waie vntounto your aduantage. There is nothing more certaine, then the good tree to beare good fruite, if one doeth not make him change his owne nature, but if one doe grafte vponupon it ſome crabſtocke or ſome other kinde of wilde fruite, the tree can beare no other but crabs or wiledings: euen ſo we Chriſtian perſons, who are the trees of God, planted by the pleaſant fountaine of his grace, and purged with the holy water of Baptiſme, to beare fruite at our ſeaſon, ſo that we take euer to prosper withall, the dewe of his grace that planted vsus, I meane, the faith of our ſauiour Ieſus Chriſt, ſo long we beare good fruite, as it is ſaied before, alleadging theaThe 5. you would ſay, as before. 3. of S. Iohn, ill vnderſtood by Iouinian, he that is borne of God doeth not ſinne, for the generation of God doeth preſerue him, and the enemy of our health ſhall not touch him.bIf yo… had lookt into the booke, you ſhould not hauehave found both theſe teſtimonies in one chapter, for the firſt is in the fift, & this in the third. And in the ſaied Chapter, he ſaieth againe, all men, or eueryevery man that is borne of God doeth not ſinne, for the ſeede of God is in him, and he cannot ſinne, becauſe be is borne of God. By this it is not meant, that Baptiſme (the which he doeth call the beeing bornecHe ſpeaketh of reall & not ſimply of ſacramentall regeneratiō. of God) doeth take awaie from man the power or libertie to doe euill, for if he will degenerate from the grace that he hath receaued by the ſacrament of regeneration, and that in ſteede of growing graft vponupon the ſtocke of the louelove of God, which is the true life, that he will fructifie towards his death and deſtruction, in this caſe hee is no more the ſonne of God, for as Chriſt ſaieth,*John. 8. If yee be the children of Abraham, doe the workes of Abraham. But as hee doeth continue and hath this good will, which was taught by the Angell vntounto the ſheepheardes, and that hee doeth continue, hauing the grace that was inſpired in him by the holie ghoſt at his baptiſme, ſo long he doeth not ſinne vntounto eternall death,dYea the Apoſtle to the great comfort of them that are once truely regenerat, teacheth in theſe places, that ſuch by the power of that grace ſhall be ſo preſerued, that they ſhall neuer ſin, as the vnregenera… do, with their whole man vntounto death. for the generatiō of God, that is to ſaie, the grace receiued by this holy ſacrament, doeth ſo defend him, that the Deuill cannot perſecute him to death, being not able to preuaile againſt him, and as long as this good ſeede, which is the word of God, doeth dwell in him, he cannot ſinne, and if he did ſinne, the ſeed would no lōger remain in him. The holie ghoſt (ſaith*Sap. 1. the wiſemā) ſhall refuſe the hypocrite and diſſembler, and ſhall depart from the vaine and crafty cogitations, and therefore the grace of God and ſinne can not dwell togither, nor we ought not thinke S. Iohns wordes ſtrange, in that he ſaieth, that he that is borne of God doeth not ſinne, for it is as much to ſay, as that one can not ſerue two maſters, and that he that ſerueth God can not ſerue the Deuill. For. S. Paul ſaieth,*1. Cor. 10. You cannot aſſiſt at the table of God and of the Deuill altogether, for what communication is there betweene iuſtice and iniquity, or betweene Ieſus Chriſt and Belial. And hee that doeth louelove this world declareth himſelfe an enemie vntounto God. And a little before he had ſaied, he that doeth commit ſinne, is the ſonne of the Deuill, the which doeth not affirme, that a ſinner cannot be the ſonne of God, if he repent and doe penance: but in the meane while,aIf this aſſertion be true, …en as often as the regenerate either actually ſinneth, or hath but a minde to ſinne, he is not the childe of God. I would gladly know thē, h w often the authour hath cōtinued a more…h the child of God togither, or any man elſe? he that is in actuall ſinne, or hath a minde to doe euill, is as then not the ſonne of God, but the ſonne of the Deuill. The good tree doeth not beare ill fruite: for although the fruit doe rot or periſh vponupon the tree, that corruption doeth not proceede of the tree, but of the wormes, birdes, or of ſome other kinde of vermine: and therefore, when they ſay, that by the fruit we ſhall knowe the tree, and by the workes the faith, this ought to be vnderſtood, when the fruite doeth ripe in ſeaſon, and that it hath the naturall humour and property of the tree. And in a man, that he hauehave the influēce of the true faith & not otherwiſe: for euen as the rotten fruit hanging vponupon the tree, doeth digreſſe nothing from the good ſtocke: euen ſo the ill workes of vsus that are Chriſtians, ought not to ſtaine our holy and Catholique religion.bThus we alſo anſwere the obiection that you make againſt our religion, frō the lewd liues that you ſee in ſome, which ſeeme to be of our profeſſion. It is a good defence for you, you thinke, why ſhould you not graunt … then ſo to be to vsus? For the corruption of our ill fruites cōmeth of our ſelues, and not of our religion, the which doeth defende vsus from doing that we doe, I meane, to ſweare, to blaspheme, to commit adulterie, to doe anie man wrong, or to offend God anie waie. He that doeth deſire then by the fruit, to know whither the tree of our Religion bee good, hee ought not to bende his eies to looke vponupon the rotten fruit, as if that were ſufficient to diſproue the goodneſſe of the tree: but let him looke vponupon the good fruites,cYou ſhall finde, that you farre oue…ſhot your ſe fe in your reckoning, when you compare indeed their religion exp eſſed in their writi…gs with yours. ſuch are all the Doctours, aſwell of the Greeke as Latin church, ſo manie good Emperours and vertuous Kinges, Princes, Dukes and Earles, which hauehave raigned in France, Spaine, Germany and England, and ouer all the worlde, and hauehave died in the faith, leauing their workes to beare witnes of their good fruites.dMany Kings, Qu…enes Nobles and others of our religion hauehave done theſe things alſo. The which hauehave builded ſo manie faire hoſpitals, to helpe & releeue the poore, ſo many goodly Colledges to entertaine fatherles children at their bookes, ſo manie foundations and workes for the common wealth, and that hauehave builded ſo manie ſumptuouseThe firſt pulling of them dow…e here in England came euen from your Cardinals and great biſhops, vnderunder the pretence therwith to found colledges, and ſo hauing giuen the king an example whe… he was diſpoſed to follow it, they eaſily conſented, indeed the abhomina…ions therin committed was their ouerthrow. Abbeies and houſes of Religion, the which you with your godlie zeale hauehave not onelyonly robbed and ſpoiled, but that that is more odious, you hauehave pulled them cleane downe, to deface the memorie of our anceſters, & to acquite all theſe which are notable monuments, you brag of the good deedes that your good Chriſtians doe, which are much like vntounto the gaines of thoſe that vſe to cog at diſe: for although they win much it is neuer ſeene: or like the Iewes, which to colour their horrible crueltie in putting our ſauiour vniuſtly to death, they wēt & bought with the monie that they gaue to Iudas, a field to bury the dead.kAs deepe and grounded papiſts were lickoriſh of Abbey lands as any other, and as greedily and ſecurely they enioy them ſtill amongſt vsus. Cardinall Woolſey and the Biſhop of Rocheſter your great Martyr, firſt began that courſe here. And ſo you hauing robbed & ſpoiled frō the religious houſes and Abbeies more then you are able to reſtore, you thinke to acquite it al with giuing a little to the poore. No, no, theſe deuiſes are but vaine, if by the fruit the tree be knowen (as Chriſt ſaieth) let them that hauehave anie iudgement, looke vponupon the fruit of our trees, & then iudge, whither they be good or no.
The XXXIIII. Chapter.
PArtly in the former Chapter, but more plainly in this you ſhew, that you vnderſtand by the trees, that Chriſt ſpake of, good Religion, and bad. But if you view the place, you will (at leaſt I am ſure, you ſhould) rather thereby vnderſtād, ye perſons of men effectually called (as I hauehave ſaied) or not called at all, or (at leaſt) yet vneffectually called: & that ſound religion is one of the principall fruits, that he meant ſhould grow vpō the former, to diſcerne him from the later. For his ſcope was not there to teach vsus, how to diſcerne religions, but how to diſcerne the children of God from the children of ſathan. And thus it will proue, that the ſence of this prouerbe will not proue hard at all to vsus to digeſt, but to you: who what ſhew ſoeuer you cā make wt the philoſophers of outward good works (wherof you brag luſtily in the later ende of this Chapter) yet you ſhall neuer be able to proue your ſelues good trees, becauſe your Religion by the ſound and perfect touchſtone of the ſcriptures, wilbe proued falſe, and Idolatrous. This your ſelfe giuegive to be the very reaſon, why the philoſophers were bad trees, notwithſtanding that in reſpect of outward ſhew of holines, we may truely confeſſe with you, that euen their liues at the day of iudgement ſhall & will confound a number of Chriſtians in name, which led Painims liues. And therefore vntill it be ſet out of queſtion, that your Religion is not falſe, nor Idolatrous (which is impoſſible, as long as the Scriptures keepe their place) if you bragge of ten times moe outward workes, then either you doe, or can, yet your owne mouth will condemne you, as yet to hauehave ſaied nothing to proue your ſelues good trees. And on the contrary euen by this your owne ſaying, if we can proue our religion to be the ſound Chriſtian faith, taught indeede by Chriſt and his Apoſtles, and therefore that neuer ſince, hell gates could preuaile againſt it (which we doubt not of, whenſoeuer you will enter into this controuerſie with vsus) then (for all your ſaying here to the contrary) Chriſtes ſentence ſhall giuegive vsus very good aduantage.
Thus hauing ſhewed your cunning in reſtraining, and collecting of this prouerbe of Chriſt, as I hauehave: now as one, that after ſome wreſting, found it ſtronger for you, then you would hauehave thought, you graunt it to be moſt true, ye naturallie a good tree bringeth forth good fruit, & not bad at all, and a crab-tree nothing but crabs. And this you labour to proue, firſt, by certaine teſtimonies of S. Iohn, affirming, that he that is borne of God, ſinneth not, & then by other places, as Iohn. 8. Sap. 1.1. Cor. 10. you confirme that doctrine of S. Iohn: & laſtly by a ſimilitude, ſhewing, that as the rottennes, wormeatennes, or any ſuch fault in the fruite of a good tree, letteth not, but that ſtill naturally yt tree may be ſaied to beare good fruit, becauſe theſe things fall out by ſome accident, vnnaturall to the tree: euen ſo the good tree alwaies, as it is a good tree, bringeth forth naturally good fruit. Here in effect you let go, and giuegive ouer the former reſtraining of Chriſts words, and recant that you ſaied before, ye a…il tree, as the philoſophers, may bring forth good fruit: & a good tree, as a Catholique in Religion (by whom you meane a Papiſt) may bring forth ill fruits: and (will you, nill you) you are enforced to confeſſe, that Chriſtes wordes are generally true, & ſimply therefore alwaies verified of both good trees, and bad trees, as they are naturally conſidered. But yet you adde, the tree is knowen by his fruit, and faith by workes, ſo as then the fruit bee ripe in due ſeaſon, & not otherwiſe. Wherein I take your meaning to be, that not eueryevery ſhew of fruites, nor vnripe works, but works indeede good both in matter, and maner of doing, are the fruits, whereby a good tree, & iuſtifying faith is diſcerned. You yet proceede and ſay, that, as a rotten and wormeaten apple hanging vponupon a good tree (ſeeing that came not thorow the nature of the tree, but by meanes of wormes, birdes, or ſome other ſuch accident) miniſtreth not a ſufficient argument, to proue that tree to be an ill tree: ſo the ill workes of Chriſtians ought not to ſtaine their holy Catholique religiō. For ye corruption of their fruits, commeth not from the nature of theſe religion, which forbiddeth ſuch fruits or workes, but from themſelues. In all this (vnderſtanding not as you doe, but as you ſhould, the holie Catholique Religion indeede, which yours will neuer proue) we ioyne with you, and allow, what you hauehave ſaied. And as you ſuppoſing your religion to be the holy Catholique religion, hauehave thus anſwered the obiection, drawen from the good workes of profeſſours of our religion, and from the bad workes of yours: ſo euen in the ſame words and maner, ſuppoſing our religiō, & not yours, to be that true & holy religiō, your obiection againſt vsus, grounded vponupon the good workes of ſome of yours, & lewde liues of ſome that yet profeſſe ours, is alſo anſwered. For we tel you (as you ſeeme here to tel vsus) that your works are not ripe works, ſuch as good works ſhould be, both in matter and maner, and therefore no argument more of the goodnes of your religion, then the Philoſophers works were of the goodnes of theirs: & that the ill works foūd in ſome of our profeſſours, ought not to ſteine our religiō, foraſmuch as none of them are iuſtified, but condemned by the ſame. But in the vttering of theſe things you hauehave vttered diuers things, whereof it is needful to admoniſh both you, and your Reader. Firſt, in examining S. Iohns words, you ſeeme ſimply to vnderſtand, that by being borne of God, hee meant nothing elſe but being baptized, as though they were both one, or (at leaſt) ſo inſeparably cōioined, yt whoſoeuer were outwardly baptized, were certainely forthwith thereby inwardly regenerated and new borne, wherein, you and al that ioyne with you therein, ſhew both great errour and ignorance, in the doctrine of that ſacrament. For though by that ſacrament, al that hauehave receiued it, are ſacramentally new borne, and receiued into Chriſts Church, and therein hauehave had the waſhing away of their ſinnes, in the bloud of Chriſt, repreſented vntounto them, offered vntounto them, and ſealed and ratified, on Gods behalfe to belong vntounto them, if they inwardly alſo will imbrace it: yet, to confound the ſacrament of regeneration and the waſhing away of our ſinnes, with regeneration and remiſsion of ſinnes it ſelfe, or to tye the later, ſo vntounto the former, as that of neceſſity, whoſoeuer is partaker of the former, is alſo partaker of the later, is againſt all good diuinity, Scripture, and experience. For diuinity admitteth not, a confounding of the outward ſigne with the inward grace in a ſacrament; & the ſcripture, & experience withall teacheth vsus, ye Simō Magus was baptiſed; and yet no ſounde diuine euer helde, that forthwith thereby he was inwardly regenerated, for by his fruites, the contrary by and by euidently appeared, Act. 8. Againe, if outwardly to be baptiſed, were by & by to be regenerated, then al that hauehave beene baptiſed hauehave beene inwardly regenerated, & all that are baptiſed once muſt needs be ſo: which thing if it were ſo, why, & how cōmeth it to paſſe, that many neuer ſhew any fruites of regeneration, and die giuing plaine euidence, that they were neuer borne anew, notwithſtanding they were baptiſed; and that there is no more haſt made, to baptiſe Turkes, Iewes, and whomſoeuer we can come by? But it ſeemeth that as you holde this errour of baptiſme, that to defend it withall, you are of opinion, that a man once may be truely regenerated, and ſo the childe of God, iuſtified and ſanctified in the bloud of Chriſt, through grace, and yet afterwardes in concluſion finally may ſo fall awaie, that he become the childe of the Deuill, and this is the ſecond thing that I though good to admoniſh you, and your reader of. For this is alſo a moſt dangerous errour, ſhaking al the certaine groūds of our faith, and therefore to our comforte it is plainely taught vsus contrarie to this in the Scripture, that the gifts and graces of God (whereby are meant the giftes of regeneration) are without repentance, Rom. 11.29. and therefore whom Chriſt loueth once as his owne (as doubtleſſe he doeth all them that are new borne once indeede) Iohn tels vsus he loues to the ende, Iohn. 13.1. And Paul vponupon this ground (that he knew with whom God once went ſo farre, as towardes them, to ſhew his power, and mercy in regenerating of them, that he would neuer finallie forſake them, but perfect in thē, that good worke of his) aſſures the Philippians, that he that had begunne that good worke in them, would performe it vntill the day of Ieſus Chriſt, cap. 1.6. And yet I doe not deny, but ſuch maie hauehave their falles, and that in ſuch ſort, that to their owne ſence & feeling, and in the opinions of others, they hauehave quite fallen from grace, and all the good gifts of regeneration; but yet if before they were not ſacramentally onelyonly, but really in trueth new borne, and clenſed from their ſinnes in Chriſt; the ſpirit and graces of God in them were but in this caſe, as the ſunne hid from our eies by thicke cloudes, and as fire raked vp in the aſhes, which God will cauſe to ſhine againe, and to growe to a fire in them, when hee in his good time hath cauſed the cloudes to vaniſh, and hath remooued the aſhes. This you can holde to bee true in Peter, notwithſtanding his fall, becauſe Chriſt praied that his faith ſhould not faile, Luk. 22. why ſhould you not then vponupon Chriſtes praier, made generally for all his elect, that his heauenly father would keepe them, and that from euill, Ioh. 17.15. conceiue the like of all thoſe, whō God hath once ſealed indeede, with the peculiar ſeale of regeneration, proper onelyonly to his elect? But it ſeemes you thinke you hauehave ground enough for this your opinion, in that you ſee many that hauehave ſeemed to ſtand, finally to fal; and that you finde the promiſſes run vponupon this condition, if we perſeuere vntounto the end; whereunto I anſwere, that in the former, you may be deceiued two waies; either in taking them to hauehave ſtood indeede, which yet neuer came vntounto it, or in condēning them as finally to hauehave fallen, when as it may be otherwiſe: and as for the ſecond, I ſay, that as it is certaine, that the promiſſes runne vponupon that condition, ſo the Lord will giuegive all thoſe grace, to performe that conditiō, that be once thus ſealed to be his. For nothing ſhal ſeparate thē from the louelove of God in Chriſt Ieſus, Rom. 8. & ſuch are kept by the power of god through faith vntounto ſaluatiō, 1. Pe. 1.5. You muſt therefore thirdly be admoniſhed, that indeede you doe miſunderſtād Iohn, & the other teſtimonies to fortifie Iohns doctrin, as dāgerouſly as euer did Iouiniā, Nouatus, or any other, if you take them ſo to be vnderſtoode, as it ſeemeth you doe, that by theſe places wee are taught, that none in any actuall ſinne, and hauing a minde to doe euill, is in that meane while, the childe of God, but of the Deuill. If this were true doctrine, ſeeing it is writen, that no man liueth & ſinneth not, 1. King. 8. no man can ſay his hart is cleane, Pro. 20. but euen when we are at the beſt, we muſt needs confeſſe, that thoſe good things that we would do, we do not, & thoſe euil thīgs that we would leaue vndone, we doe, Ro. 7. & that if we ſay we hauehave no ſin, we deceiue our ſelues, & there is no truth in vsus, 1. Ioh. 1. & therfore it is certaine that ther was neuer child of God yet, but oftē times he hath had a mind to doe euill, and bene ſometime in actuall ſinne: I ſay, theſe thinges being moſt true, becauſe both Scripture and experience teach them ſo to be, if this doctrine of yours be true alſo, then ſo often as there is a purpoſe, and performance of any actuall ſinne, and as long as that is found in man, ſo often, and ſo long he is the childe of the Deuill, and not of God. If this be thus, if you knewe how farre actuall ſinne ſtreatcheth, and weighed without diſſembling, how prone the beſt men are to fall, I am fully perſwaded there is none of you all, that a whole day togither, can hauehave aſſurance, that you are any other, but the children of the Deuill. For if the Lorde ſhould ſtraitely marke what is done amiſſe, and enter into iudgement with his ſeruants, no man could for one daies ſpace in trueth cleare himſelfe, of all actuall ſinne, committed either in word, deede or thought, by omitting good things commanded, or doing ill things forbidden. If in ſtead of ſaying, in the meane while, you had only ſaied, therein, and in that reſpect he is not the childe of God; your ſpeech might hauehave beene borne withall. For indeed in the new borne, though there be a new man, yet as long as they liue, they ſhall finde ſome reliques of the olde man, rema…ning, and ſo a law in their members, rebelling againſt the law of the ſpirit, Rom. 7. Gal. 5. by meanes wherof, it commeth to paſſe, yt though ſinne raigne not in their mortall bodies, and they neuer commit ſinne vntounto death, and tranſgreſſe with the whole man, as the carnall men doe; yet in reſpect of this old man, that is left, ſinne dwelleth in them, as a tyrant, and getteth them now and then, to doe him ſome ſeruice, though not wt the conſent and liking of the new, but it ſtriuing againſt the ſame, as it alſo euidently appeareth in the two foreſaied Chapters Rom. 7. & Gal. 5. wherein, & in which reſpect, they may be ſaied not to be ye children of God, but in the meane while, in that by the inner man, theſe things that are done, through the tyranny of the old man, are not conſented vntounto, but miſliked & ſtriuen againſt by them; therefore wt Paul they comfort thēſelues, & ſay, now if I doe that which I wold not, it is no more I that do it, but the ſin that dwelleth in me Rō. 7. & wt Iohn (after yt through ye beholding of this their infirmity, they hauehave cōfeſſed, yt if they ſhould ſay they had no ſin, they deceiued thēſelues, & there were no truth in thē) they raiſe vp thēſelues againe ſaying, if we acknowledge our ſins, he is faithful & iuſt to forgiue vsus our ſin, & to clenſe vsus from all vnrighteouſnes, 1. Ioh. 1. and ſo remaine ſtill, euen whiles they finde theſe battailes, foiles, & riſings againe in themſelues, the children of God. For S. Iohn is not to be vnderſtood, to deny ſimply that the new borne ſin; but to deny that they ſinne vntounto death, or with their full and whole power and wil, as they doe wc are vnregenerated. Otherwiſe, he were contrarie vntounto himſelfe, in yt he cōfeſſeth, ſpeaking of himſelfe, & ſuch as he was, thē (as you hauehave heard) that if they ſaied they had no ſin, they deceiued thēſelues, & there was no trueth in thē. Neither is there any thing in any of the reſt of the places, by you alleaged, that cōtrarieth this my interpretation of Iohn, or cōfirmeth yours. For mē, in the time whē ſinne is but thus dwelling in them, & ſo through their infirmity, now & then (though againſt the wil of the ſpirit) durſting from them: yet euen thē retaine the ſpirit of God in thē, which ſheweth it ſelfe both in procu…ing that it was not committed, but as it were with a piece of the wil, & in after ſo taking vp the treſpaſſer for ſo doing, inwardly in his conſcience, that he groweth to indignatiō wt himſelfe, for yeelding ſo far, & ſo to a more carefulnes to take heed of ſin afterwards, & to a firmer purpoſe & power, to excerciſe himſelfe in good works, eueryevery day dying more & more vntounto ſin, & liuing more & more vntounto righteouſnes: wherupon it commeth to paſſe, that ſuch are not, no not euen in this time of their infirmity, anſwerable to the deſcription of the wiſe man, wherwith he ſetteth them forth, that are not capable of the good ſpirit of God, Sap. 1. & ſuch doe yet bring forth the works of Abrahā, in their inner man at al time, & outwardly alſo vponupon the recouery, from the foile of the fleſh, from time to time. But ſin & grace cannot dwel togither you ſay: & herein, you ſtrengthen your ſelfe wt Ioh. 8, Sap. 1, Matth. 6.1. Cor. 10. it is true, ſin with his head vncruſhed, in his ful power & ſtrēgth, cānot dwel in ye ſame mā, in whō is ye ſpirit of regeneratiō, at one & the ſelfeſame time; but (as I hauehave ſaid) it may & doeth: or elſe, it neuer continueth a day to an end in any one mā, except the mā Chriſt. For al elſe daily offēd & ſin, but yet thē ſin weakened, & not in his full ſtrength, dwelleth in the man, in reſpect of the fleſh, yt is, in reſpect of ſo much of him, as is not fully brought in ſubiection to the ſpirit, & the ſpirit dwelleth in him eueryevery day preuailing more and more, in reſpect of the other part which is renewed according to the wil of the ſpirit, and therefore called the new man. This point of diuinity though moſt true and certaine, by theſe your ſpeeches, it ſeemeth, you are not acquainted wtall: but yet it ſeemeth ſtrange, that you wc brag ſo much of the ſpirit, to direct your Popes, your coūcels, & Church, ſhould (cōſidering the manifold & great ſins & errors they hauehave fallen into) ſet downe this doctrine, that ſin, & the ſpirit of God cannot dwel togither. As for your place, Wiſdo. 1, it is rightly to be vnderſtood of ſuch, as are hypocrites, and diſſemblers, and dwell in fooliſh and wilfull ignorance, for from ſuch the ſpirit of diſcipline flyeth, but ſuch are not the children of God, that I hauehave deſcribed to hauehave in them, both the new man, and the old, ſpirit & fleſh, & therefore ſuch may, as I hauehave ſaied, be capable of Gods ſpirit, and ſuch may be the true ſeruants of God, and doe the workes of Abraham, and bee partakers of the table of the Lorde, as long as ſinne raigneth not in their mortall bodies, howſoeuer ſometimes it ſhew it ſelfe to dwell in them. And this you muſt be driuen to confeſſe, or elſe you preach the right doctrine of deſperation, to your ſelfe and all that heare you. But to paſſe frō theſe pointes, which I thought good thus to admoniſh the reader and your ſelfe of, let vsus returne to your concluſion of this Chapter, wherein, after you hauehave ſhewed vsus, that to finde your Religion to be a good tree, we muſt not looke vpō your rotten fruit, becauſe your Religion condemneth ſuch fruit, but vponupon your doctours and great perſonages that hauehave died throughout the world, in your faith, and left notable monuments of hoſpitalls, colledges, and ſuch like works behinde thē; you charge vsus not onelyonly that our Religion cannot ſhew the like, but that rather wee hauehave ſpoiled and defaced your monumēts, as your Abbies and ſuch like, and thinke to make amēds with giuing ſome little now to ye poore. Whereunto briefly my anſwere is, this; all this cannot proue your Religion good, nor ours bad, vnles you can proue yours true by the ſcriptures, and ours falſe. For as bad fruits as theſe you charge vsus withall may be founde, in them, whoſe Religion is good, & as good as theſe you bragge of, to the outward ſhew, may be foūd, where the Religion is falſe, and idolatrous euen by your owne doctrine, in the former Chapter, which anſwere were ſufficient. Howbeit, for the more full, and particular ſatiſfying of the commō reader, I ſay further, firſt in that you forbid vsus to iudge of your Religion, by ye view of the rotten fruit, that we hauehave found in ſome that hauehave profeſſed it, becauſe your Religion condemus ſuch fruit, you muſt not thinke much if we preſcribe the ſame rule to you, in reſpect of ours: for as euident it is that our Religion condēneth ſinne, yea euen to the leaſt ſinne, as euer did yours, and more too, in that we condemne the firſt motions ariſing in mans minde to ſinne, though not conſented vntounto, to be ſinne, which you deny; and in that we teach the leaſt breach of the law, deſerueth in it ſelfe damnation, and you doe teach there are a number veniall ſinnes, euen for the littlenes thereof, and therefore to be put away euen with trifling toies, and deuiſes of your owne. Secondly, I ſay that by that, your Religion be conferred with the Religiō, that moſt of theſe great perſonages, and doctors you talke of died in, and both of them be tried by the ſcriptures, and then compared with ours, it wil be founde, that not halfe of them died in your faith as you imagine, yea, that the ancienteſt and beſt of them died in ours, and therefore both they, and their monuments are ours, and giuegive greater credit vntounto our religion, then all the reſt doe vntounto yours. And euen of late daies, diuerſe famous perſons of our religion, hauehave founded Schooles, Hoſpitals and Colledges, as well as yours. What Duke Caſsimer is, you know, and what hee hath done at Newſtade and elſewhere in Germanie this way, it cannot bee vnknowen. Euen now alſo with vsus in England, a zealous profeſſour of our Religion, and an ancient noble Counſeller, Sir Walter Mildemay, hath founded a noble new Colledge in Cambridge, called Emanuel Colledge. And ſince the beginning of her Maieſties raigne that now is, our gracious ſoueraigne Ladie Queene Elizabeth, notable things by her ſelfe and others, there hath beene done, to the erecting of Hoſpitals and common Schooles, and alſo to the maintenance, and furtherance of learning, in both the Vniuerſities; inſomuch, that I dare bee bolde to ſay, it is as much to the good of this Church, and common wealth, as if an other ſuch Vniuerſity as one of theſe, had beene now founded, built, and endued as richly, as either of theſe now is. And though our Cleargy men now, be not able to builde ſo many Colledges as yours were, yet thoſe things that they doe that way, though they match not yours in quantity, they yet may ouermatch yours quickely in quality. For you know in the Goſpell, the widowes two mites, which ſhe threw into the treaſury, for the poore, of the little that ſhee had wel gotten, was in Chriſts account, a greater almes then theirs, which threw in farre greater ſummes of their ſuperfluities. Marke 12. And well knowen it is, that the richeſt and greateſt of ours, are for their places, but beggers to them, that hauehave beene of like, or the ſame place amongſt you, whereof, the reaſon is, not onelyonly that they lacke a number of deuiſes that yours had, to encreaſe their gaine, but alſo, that they hauehave not your Romiſh conſciences, which with your Popes diſpenſation, could make them wide enough to ſwallow vp the commodities, not onelyonly of as many benefices, but alſo Biſhopricks and other offices, ciuill or eccleſiaſticall, as they could poſſibly get. Whereof it came, that of their very ſuperfluities, vnleſſe they had beene prouder then Lucifer, and more waſtfull in belly cheare, then euer was the rich glutton, ſome thing might well be ſpared, and of a number of them, ſo much, as might hauehave procured the building of many moe then they left behinde them. Hoſpitals and Colledges, though you would ſo inſinuate, we hauehave pulled downe none, but hauehave increaſed the number of them. And as for your Abbies, & other …loiſters of religious houſes, you had for the inriching and building of them (vnderunder pretence of your requiting of them with your Maſſes, Dirges, and trentals) deuoured ſo many widowes houſes, robbed ſo many heires, and fatherleſſe children, ſpoiled ſo many Pariſhes of the ordinary maintenance for their miniſters; and ſince, the liuers in them, were growen to ſuch height of ſinnes not to be named, as that in the iuſt iudgement of God, there could no leſſe puniſhment come vponupon them, then the vtter defacing and ouerthrowing of them, leſt if they had beene left eaſie to hauehave beene ſet in their former ſtate againe, they ſhould too eaſily and too quicklie hauehave beene ſhoppes and ſties for the like filthineſſes and abhominations againe. And yet here with vsus in Englād, Cardinall Woolſey by the Popes authority, pulled downe the firſt, and to the ſuppreſſion of the reſt, many of your biſhops and Cleargy vnderunder king Henry conſented: and in diuers other places they hauehave beene alſo, by lawfull and ſufficient authority, orderly for theſe cauſes, defaced: and doubtles though not turned to ſo good vſes, as they might perhaps hauehave beene, if the wrath of God againſt them, for the foreſaied cauſes, woulde hauehave ſuffered it; yet I am fully perſwaded, to a better vſe by farre, yea infinite degrees, then they were before. And therefore theſe things conſidered, this rather may be counted a good worke in vsus, thus to hauehave defaced them, and conuerted their vſe, then a fault whereof wee need repent vsus: And conſequently vaine is your charging of vsus, with ſeeking to make amends with giuing a trifle to the poore. This is a fault that rather toucheth your kingdome, then vsus: for wee account all almes and other outward good workes whatſoeuer, to be vnprofitable to the doer, vnleſſe they be done with goods gotten with a good conſcience; which wil ouerthrow moſt of the glory of the gay works that you moſt brag of: & you are they that care not, ſo your Church be inriched, if it be wt the farming of concubines, & diſpenſation for any ſin, & wt the rentes yearly for ye open ſtewes, & yt wt ye which they get by whoring during their liues, ſo you hauehave it when they die. For ther was nothing more cōmō, thē for your prieſts to farme cōcubines, though they might not be ſuffred to hauehave lawful wiues, & experiēce hath taught, yt there was no ſin, but ther might be marchādiſe made of it, in your romiſh court & faire: & ye your Popes a long time, hauehave takē rent for the ſtewes in Rome, & that yearely a good round ſumme, & yt they hauehave bene glad to take the goods of thoſe harlots, when they died, for their Churches vſe, it is moſt notoriouſlie knowen. And what hath beene more vſuall both in practiſe and doctrine with you, then to teach much ſatiſfaction for ſinne, and redemption of former faultes, to bee performed by almes giuing, eſpecially, ſo it were to your Prieſtes and Clergy men, neuer caring ſo you might come by it, of their goods aliue or dead, whether euer it was well gotten, or no? For in trueth, this hath beene the policy, that hath brought your Clergy, to ſo infinite wealth, as they were of, and made all other but beggers in compariſon of themſelues. Therefore now let them that hauehave any iudgement, as you wiſh, looke vponupon the fruite of your trees, whether they bee ſo good or no, as you here make bragges of.