Answer to John De Albines, Answer to discourse · Chapter 41
The XLI. Chapter.
NOw to turne to the partition that we hauehave vponupon the 34. and 37. of Ezechiel, and vponupon the tenth of Iohn▪ it is plaine, that we are the flockes of weake and ſickelie ſheepe: and your diſciples are the ſheepe that runne this waie and that waie aſtraie: thoſe that are ouraHowſoeuer that title is due vntounto them, they take it not vntounto thē. ill Prelats take vponupon them the title of Mercenarii paſtoris, but vntounto your miniſters the titles of deuouring wolues, may be appliedbOnelyOnly of ſuch as hauehave made ſhipwracke of conſcience. without anie ſcrupuloſitie of cō ſcience: for you watch to none other intent, but to make the ſheepe runne out of the folde, and to deuour them, becauſe that our paſtours hauehave not taken care to keepe them. And although they be not excuſable, aſwell for their ſilence, as for their naughty liues, I ſee not your Patriarchs & zealous manifeſters amende much themſelues, the faults that they finde in vsus: for beſides the true and certaine experience that wee hauehave had by the triall that we hauehave ſeene to our coſt in this Realme, within theſe fiue or ſix yearescPenned then by ſuch, that had taught their pēs to write lies. I hauehave read full many a golden Legend of your ſacred martyrs and holie Biſhops, which doe not altogither redound to the honour of your pretended reformed Church. And among others Theodore de Beza Caluins ſucceſſour in the Pontificate ſeat of the holy city of Geneua of whom ſuch things are preached abroad, that if the one halfe of them be true,dNeither wil …e, nor any of vsus, ſo compare our ſelues. he is ſcant ſo good a man as S. Iohn Baptiſt. And becauſe I would not hauehave you to miſlike thē for their religiō, I wil not alleage, to verify this, any Catholick author, but ſōe of Luthers ſucceſſors your firſt foūder, who taught you to write ſo learnedly (I would ſay railingly) againſt the church of Rome. Tilemanus Heſhuſius a miniſter of the Lutherās, in the*Jn his booke of the true body of Chriſt in the ſacrif writen in Latin. book that I hauehave alreadie noted, doeth openlie accuſe the ſaied Beza of great infamy, that he did not onlie contenteHeat of contē tion made the man too credulous, and ſo beleeued your malitious paraſites, that moſt impudently and falſly hauehave forged theſe things of him. the fancie of his mind, with leading a luxurious & a licētious life, & to ſtaine his vow with a bilt of adulterous louelove, but that that is worſe, hee himſelfe hath ſet forth in writing all his laſciuious acts, the which (ſaieth hee)fHis laſciuious ſongs and Epigrams he made and publiſhed whiles he was yours, whereof he hath publickly in printe teſtified his repentance & miſlike ſince he was ours. he hath ſong in ſacrilegerime to the Inſtrument, to manifeſt his ſinne to the whole ſight of the worlde. And in that verie booke hee doeth ſay, that Beza, who as I hauehave tolde you) is a Biſhop of the holie Cittie of Geneua, is an infamous monſter, whoſe naughtie life any man may reade ſet forth by him ſelfe in his owne Epigrams: and notwithſtanding (ſaieth he) to heare him ſpeake, you would thinke hee vvere Saint Iohn Baptiſt, for he can talke of nothing but of his holie life. This ſame very miniſter in the booke where he writeth theſe things, he doeth laie togThe more ſhame for him, for it is a monſtrous and notorious ſlander. Bezaes charge that he tooke with him to Geneua another mans wife, without the knowledge of her huſband, whoſe name was Candida. hWill an argument from one to al follow with papiſts? and yet this one not proued ſuch an one neither.Thus ſeeing by the verie teſtimonie of thoſe that are our enemies, & that are your brethren, as touching the ſeeking to ouerthrow the Catholique church. The principall pill…s of your church are bawdes, thieues and adulterers, ruffins:iAnd yet what is more vſuall with papiſts, then to cry out againſt our ill liues, though your liues be ſuch, as you hauehave confeſſed. why doe yee not, firſt begin to reforme your ſelues, to this intent, that when we ſee, that you hauehave taken the blacke out of your owne eies, we maie be the better content, that you ſhould spie the moate in ours. Remember that our ſauiour ſaith in the goſpell, that the phiſition ought to cure himſelfe.
The XLI. Chapter.
WE are very well contented, ſeeing you ſo willingly confeſſe it, and that ſo often, that you be counted weake and ſickely ſheepe; and your paſtours, hirelings. But the other part of your ſpeech, that we are the ſheepe, that are runne aſtraie from Gods ſheepfold, and our paſtours are the rauening wolues: wee moſt conſtantly, in reſpect of our Religion, deny it: howſoeuer, with you, wee muſt be inforced to confeſſe, that in reſpect of maners, there is fault, in both. And therefore how boldly ſoeuer, you affirme this, ſeeing ſtill you keepe your olde woond, in hauing nothing to proue it, but your owne bare wordes, our deniall of it, counteruaileth it well enough. You though you hauehave graunted your ſelues, to bee neuer ſo ſicke in maners, and hauehave taught vsus, that Religion muſt not be ſtained, and thought to be blemiſhed, for the lewde liues of ſome, of the profeſſours; yet your ſtomacke ſo ouerflowed (it ſeemeth) with choller againſt vsus, and namely againſt that reuerend father Theodore Beza; that you could not bee quiet, vntill you had caſt it vp, to eaſe your ſtomacke a little. You firſt tell vsus, that by experience, and reading of the ſtories of our Martyres, you are able to ſay ſo much of our lewde liues; as that wee hauehave not much amended the faults that wee finde in you. And then you come to that, where you long to bee, to diſcredit Beza: to whoſe charge, you ſay ſundry heinous crimes, and that vponupon the report of Tilemannus Heſhuſius, a bitter and intemperate enemy of his, for the queſtion amongſt vsus, for the maner of Chriſtes preſence, in the Sacrament. To the firſt, this iſſue I dare, and doe ioyne with you in; whatſoeuer you hauehave reade, or ſeene of vsus, that we hauehave read and ſeene more monſtrous and horrible ſinnes▪ in the liues of your moſt holy fathers, and Popes of Rome, then you are able to charge all that euer profeſſed our Religion withall. Was there euer like ſauadge crueltie amongſt vsus, one to another, as I ſhewed before, was amongſt them, about Formoſus? Their pride hath appeared moſt monſtrous, in treading vponupon Emperours necks, and otherwiſe infinitely, in miſuſing of them; as I hauehave at large ſhewed Chapter ſixteenth. Their deteſtable ſorcery, nicromancie, and poyſoning one another, to come to the Popedome, aboue the yeare one thouſand, by Silueſter the ſecond and his followers, ſet out by Benno a Cardinall, in the life of Hildebrand, is ſuch as we neuer reade the like amongſt the barbarous heathen. Their ambition to come to that place, and their inſatiable couetouſneſſe, when they hauehave got it, hath paſſe, for thereby Chriſtendome hath beene more troubled, with Schiſmes and warres; and Chriſtian kingdomes otherwiſe, hauehave beene more impoueriſhed, for theſe fiue or ſixe hundreth yeares: then by all other quarrells and occaſions incident whatſoeuer. Finallie, for their filthy life, I am perſwaded, that there were few worſe, in Sodom and Gomorrha, then ſundry of them hauehave beene. For Sixtus the fourth; in the yeare one thouſand foure hundreth ſeuenty foure, builded ſtewe houſes of both kindes: and not long after, Paul the third, regiſtred 45000. whors, that paied him monethly ſuch a penſion, that by the yeare it came to 40000. duckets and more. And it was no ſmall argument what filthy fruits, their forced ſingle life, both had and was likely to bring forth: that in Gregories time, in certaine fiſhpondes, there were found 6000. childrens heads. Theſe thinges your owne Croniclers, you know, doe make ſo cleare, that now eueryevery one almoſt can name, and deſcribe them, as they hauehave deſerued. For mine owne part, I am euen loath to defile my paper, with the names of ſuch filthy wretches, as a number of them hauehave beene; and ſeeing the notorious euidence of the thing is ſuch, that you your ſelfe doe not here deny, but that diuerſe of them, hauehave beene lewd liuers, and therefore, therein, you hauehave left them without defence, it is needleſſe either to trouble my ſelfe, or my Reader, any further, with the rauing in ſuch a filthy dounghill.
To proceede therefore, you muſt remēber, that you may neither draw argument from your writers, of the liues and deathes, of our Martyrs, nor from Heſhuſius an enemy to Beza, either againſt out Martyrs, or againſt him. For the report of an enemy you knowe, is worthily ſuſpected as partiall. And as for that which Heſhuſius obiects to Beza, he had it from Baudwin and Bolſacke, and other ſuch impure and filthy enemies, and Apoſtataes: who to win credit again with you, when for their miſdemeanours, our Church had caſt them of, cared not, what to write, againſt Caluin and Beza, though they knew it to be neuer ſo ſtarke a lie. To whom, Heſhuſius (through heat of contention, caried to a deſire, to deface his aduerſary, with whatſoeuer hee could) giuing too light credit, as the maner of mē is to doe but too too much in ſuch caſes, he wrote as he did. As for his Epigrams, wherewith, he chargeth him, they were made when he was but a youth of 16. or 17. years olde, publiſhed by that he was 20. then with the great liking of your ſelues. And all this was, before he was of our religion, euen whiles he was one of yours. And as he was yours, when he made them, ſo ſince he was ours, he hath diuers times himſelfe, publiſhed his harty repentance for the ſame: and that in print, as in his preface before a tragedy of Abrahams ſacrifice, and in his preface before his poemes and epigrams, with thirty Pſalmes of Dauid, reuiſed and corrected, and elſe where in his workes. And therefore for thoſe, the diſcredit is rather yours, then ours. But if he had continued in your ſide, if he had gone as farre as euer did any, not onelyonly in writing filthie poemes, but alſo in Sodomitry, and whoredome it ſelfe; all had beene well inough. For of ſuch, you hauehave had good ſtore, and yet in good credit with you. For beſides that diuers of your Popes, as namely Clement the 8, Paul the 3, & Iulius the third, were all notoriouſly infamous in the ſtories for their moſt filthie life: Iohannes Caſa your Popes Legate and an Archbiſhop in your Synagogue wrote a booke in the praiſe of Sodomitry, printed in the yeare 1549, at Venice, which booke ſince, ſome of you, to ſhew what liking you had of it, hauehave newlie publiſhed, beutified with moſt execrable and filthy pictures, to ſet out that ſinne withall. And Petrus Aloyſius notwithſtanding that moſt mō ſtrous, and impudent Sodomitry of his committed by force, in the ſight of his men; (as both Vergerius & Sleidan report out of certaine Italian ſtories) vponupon the body of Coſmuſcherius biſhop of Fane, a man then, of 30. yeares olde at the leaſt; was deare and highly eſteemed in the eies of his filthy, adulterous, and inceſtuous father Pope Paulus the third. And for the other point, touching Beza his wife, certaine it is, that ſhe was an honeſt woman, & of good report, when he maried her, and ſince alwaies Chriſtianity hath behaued her ſelfe; as becommed an honeſt matron…, for any thing that I euer could either heare or reade, worthy of any credit, to the contrary. And who but they that hauehave made a ſhipwracke of all ſhame & honeſty, would euer hauehave broched ſuch a monſtrous vntrueth as this, that he ranne away with her, ſhee being an other mans wife, to Geneua, her huſband yet liuing? Beza himſelfe, in that preface that I named laſt of his, proteſteth not onelyonly the falſhood of this, but ſaieth further, that if any mortall creature can iuſtlie touch him, with the leaſt and lighteſt ſuſpition of adultery, hee refuſeth no ſeate of iudgement▪ And if there were any ground of trueth …n this, is it likely yt this matter would neuer hauehave bene proſecuted againſt him in no court of France, or elſwher, he hauing ſo many enemies? Nay, we may be ſure yt if there had beene any trueth, either in this, or in any ſuch thing now ſaied againſt him, hee had heard of it at Poyſy. One Papiſt (as Parſons a father Ieſuite) telling the tale, ſaieth, ſhee dwelt in Kalender ſtreete; and Frarin an other, in his railing oration, ſaieth, ſhee dwelt in Harpe ſtreete: if Daniel were aliue and ſate in iudgement, theſe fellowes, agreeing no better then the two wicked iudges did, in their accuſing of Suſanna; were like to hauehave (and well worthy were they) the iudgement that thoſe two wicked iudges had. But in the meane time, with patience we muſt poſſeſſe our ſoules committing our cauſe to God (who one day wilbe auenged of ſuch lying and flaunderous tongues) and that neuer looking for other, but that the Deuill, as he hath beene a lier, from the beginning, and a falſe accuſer of Gods ſeruants: ſo he will continue, and ſhewe himſelfe in his inſtruments, vntounto the worlds ende. Though you hauehave no other groūd, but the report of an enemy, which he gaue forth vponupon the report of moſt malicious perſons, and otherwiſe diuers waies infamous, for all this your diueliſh ſlaunder of Beza, which euidence you knew well enough is ſtarke naught: you yet proceede to your concluſion that he was ſuch a man; yea, that thereby wee may ſee, that the principall pillers of our Church, are bawdes, thieues, and adulterers, as confidently as if your euidence had beene moſt ſtrong. Wherein, your fault is not onelyonly that your argument holdeth not, taken from no better grounds, againſt the particuler man himſelfe; but that alſo you reaſon from the fault duplicate page duplicate page of one, to all the chiefe pillars of our Church: and ſo you put a great deale more, in your concluſion, then was in the premiſſes, which in reaſoning is an intollerable fault. And if a man ſhould reaſon in like maner, Pope Iohn the 12. was an adulterer: Iohn the 13. was ſlain cōmitting it; Iohn the 18. put to death, & both his eies put out, by the means of Gregorie about it; pope Clement the 6. cauſed to be poiſoned (as ſōe write) Lodouick the Emperor; Silueſter ye ſecōd, was a notable coniurer, Vrbanus drowned fiue of his deareſt Cardinals: (though your owne Cronicles teſtifie theſe) therfore al your Popes, the verie heades of your church, were ſuch; would you allow of ſuch an argument? I am ſure you would not, & yet hath it an 100. times better ground, and reaſon in it, then yours. As yet therefore for any thing you hauehave ſaied, the beame is in your owne eies; and ſo you are not fit perſons to go about to get the moate out of ours, before you hauehave cleanſed your owne better.