Conference Between Rainolds and Hart, Chapter 6 (3 of 4)
Hart.
Great was the priuilege of the hie Priesthood, and chaire of Moses, in the olde law. Yet nothing like the Churches & Peters prerogatiue. Wherefore howsoeuer Vrias did offend: The Pope cannot fall away from the faith. For mDamasus in Pontificali.euen Marcellinus himselfe, who did commit idolatrie for feare of death, yet repented afterward and shed his blood for Christ.
Rainoldes.
But in the meane season he did commit idolatrie by your own confession. So that, this example must force you to yeelde that the Pope may erre, though not abide in errour.
Hart.
Nay rather, that hee cannot teach errour, though hée may erre. As Pope Marcellinus, though he did commit, he did not teach idolatrie.
Rainoldes.
Yes, he did teach it, by committing it. For, to teach, is to deliuer the thinges that one knoweth, to him, who knoweth them not. The which that wee may receiue, that is, learne, God hath giuen vsus two senses: the hearing, and the sight. Wee heare wordes: we sée déedes. The ministers of Christ, whom he hath ordeined to teach the wisedome of his Father, the way to life eternall, ought to teach by both: that men maye be edified by their wordes, which they heare; and by their déedes, which they sée. Therefore S. Paule requireth in nTim. 4.12.Timothee, in oTit. 2.7.Titus, and in p1. Tim. 3.2. Tit. 1.7.all Bishops, that both their life be good, and their doctrine sound. And him selfe had ranns this race so before them, that, when he exhorted the Philippians to do whatsoeuer things are true, honest, iust, pure, worthy louelove, and of good report: hee was able to say, that by his preaching and liuing they had learned them; qPhil. 4.9·which thinges you hauehave heard and you hauehave seene in me. Yea, it is so forcible to teach by liuing well: y• In act. Aposto…or. hom. 30.Chrysostom (commending S. Paul in yt point) preferreth it before the other. It is very easie (saith he) to teach by wordes. Teach me by thy life. This is the best teaching. For wordes doo not so sticke vntounto the minde, as workes. And if thy worke be not good, thou shalt not onelyonly not profit, but also hurt more by speaking, and it were better to hold thy peace. Why? Because thou shewest me the worke so, as if it could not be done. For I thinke with my selfe, if thou who speakest so great things, doost them not: much more am I to be excused, who speake no such thing. Therefore saith the Prophet, *Psal. 50.16.vntounto the wicked man saith God, why takest thou vponupon thee to declare my ordinances? For this is greater harme, when a man teacheth well in wordes, and fighteth against it with his workes. Thus you may sée that Bishops doo teach by their life, not by their preaching onelyonly. Wherefore, though Marcellinus the Pope did not teach idolatrie by worde: yet by his fact he did. And so your answere falleth that he did commit, but not teach idolatrie.
Hart.
I graunt that he did teach it after a sort:The fourth diuision. but not as I meant. I meant he taught it not by preaching. In that he could not erre. For as I saide before, that the Pope in respect of his person may erre, not in respect of his office: so I say farther, that his office priuilegeth him in his sayings, not in his doings. sMatt. 23.2.The Scribes and the Pharises (saith our Sauiour Christ) doo sit vponupon the chaire of Moses. All thinges therefore, whatsoeuer they shall say vntounto you, obserue ye, and doo ye. But according to their workes doo ye not. For they say and do not.
Rainoldes.
What? will you also make odious comparisons of Popes to Scribes and Pharises?
Hart.
O, I touch you now: and therefore you would interrupt me. In déede that sentence of Christ doth confound you: no maruell you are loth to heare it. For were the Popes neuer so euill, euen monsters, as tDo vitis Pont.. in Benedicto. quart, & Christophor. prim.Platina doth call some few of them, and they might be so for their liues: yet they were not worse then the Scribes and Pharises.
Rainoldes.
Beléeue me, but they were. Beware of Pope Iohn. All the Scribes and Pharises might cast their cappes at him. He was a péerlesse monster.
Hart.
You are euer interrupting, to put me from my argument.
Rainoldes.
I cannot abide, that you should detract from the Popes. Nay, yet giuegive them their due. It is a fault (they say) to belye the diuell.
Hart.
If some of them were worse then the Scribes and Pharises: my argument will hold yet. For (as D. uPrincip. doct…nal. l. 5. c. 9.Stapleton noteth out of xDe …erbi▪ Domini se…m. 49.Austin, Christ, when he saide of the Scribes and Pharises, They sit vponupon the chaire of Moses, meant not them alone, as though he sent Christians to the schoole of the Iewes to learne religion there: but by the name of Scribes and Pharises he signified, that certaine in his Church would say and not doo; and by the person of Moses he signified him selfe, for Moses was a figure of him. In like sort S. yIn Iohannem homil. 85.Chrysostom and zIn Ezech. hom. 7.Origen expound it too. He chargeth vsus therefore, to heare wicked preachers, professing God with their wordes, but denying him in their déedes: All thinges (saith he) whatsoeuer they shall say vntounto you, obserue ye and doo ye. Now the cause and reason thereof is giuen in this, because they sit vponupon the chaire, 1As D. Stapleton expoundeth it, Quia super cathe…am sedent: quia locú Christi tenent.because they hold the roome of Christ, as Scribes and Pharises did of Moses. For so doth our Sauiour reason as it were: They sit vponupon the chaire; therefore, that which they say must be obserued, and done. aEpist. 166. in …ine.S. Austin handling these wordes hath excellently noted it. Christ (saith he) hath made his people secure concerning wicked Prelates, that men should not for their sakes forsake the chaire of wholesome doctrine, in which euen they who be wicked, are constrained to speake good thinges. And why are they constrained? For (saith he) they be not their owne thinges, but the thinges of God, which they speake. And how may this be? Because (saith he) in the chaire of vnitie, God hath set the doctrine of truth. And by what wordes hath he set it? or where? He addeth: Therefore of Prelates, who doo their owne euill thinges and speake the good thinges of God, he saith in the gospell, Doo that they say, but doo not that they doo, for they say and doo not. Thus saith Austin. In the same sense are these wordes expounded both by bEpist. 137. De verbis Domin. serm. 49. Tractat. in Ioh. 46. lib. de pastorib. cap. 10.Austin himselfe againe, and by cIn Ioh. hom. 85.Chrysostome, and by dIn Ezech. hom. 7.Origen: whose wordes I passe ouer for breuities sake. Wherefore to conclude, in despite of heretikes, a sure vndouted certaintie of doctrine and faith is no lesse knit to the chaire of Christ, then to the chaire of Moses, 2Ipsi successioni Apostolicae, non minus quám Aaronic…to the verie succession of the Apostles then of Aaron: nay rather much more, by how much eHeb. 8.6.the new testament is established on better promises then the olde. Marke therefore Christes wordes: obserue ye, and doo ye. For 3Dogmata fidei seruamus: praecepta mor… facimus.we obserue pointes of faith: we doo precepts of maners. In them both we must be obedient euen to Pharises, that is, to wicked men and hypocrites, sitting in the chaire, that is, 4Succedentibus in sede … Apostolorum.succéeding into the seate of the Apostles, or Christ. Moreouer, marke the worde, obserue, that is to kéepe those thinges which they command to be obserued: 5Non alia doce…t quám quae seruanda sunt.because they teach not other thinges but such as are to be obserued. And in this respect doth Christ allow of them. For so the Pharises also them selues, though they were wicked men and hypocrites, yet (as fIn Matthaeum homil. 73.Chrysostom noteth) they did not preach their owne things, but those thinges which God had commanded by Moses. And therefore sith Christ could not commend them for their maners, he doth it for his chaire & doctrine. Wherefore 6Qui cathedram tenet Apostolicam.he that sittteth in the chaire of the Apostles, doth speake not of himselfe, but of the chaire; that is, not his owne thinges, but the thinges of God: and therefore must be heard whether he say and doo both, or onelyonly say, and not doo. Hence it is, that gContr. literas Petilian. l. 2. c. …Austin saith against Petilian: Neither for the Pharises did our Lord command the chaire of Moses to be forsaken: in which chaire verely he figured his owne. For he warneth the people to doo that which they …ay, and not to doo that which they doo: that the holinesse of the chaire be not forsaken, nor the vnitie of the flocke diuided, for the naughtie Pastors. Doo you sée how much the Fathers attribute to the chaire? You were in ha…te ere-while to interrupt my argument. Now what say you to it?
Rainoldes.
Your argument is hansome a farre off, at first sight. But if a man come néere it, and vewe it, and féele it: he cannot choose but grow in great mislike of it; it is so misshapen. hLibr. de reprehens. Sophistar.Aristotle compareth the arguments of Sophisters to weake ill-featured persons: who by stuffing out and tricking vp them selues, doo seeme to be of strong and comely plight of bodie. The most of your Doctors arguments be such: and this is one of them. It séemeth strong, and comely, as you doo bumbast it with fansies of your owne, and decke it with the names of Austin, Chrysostom, and Origen. But strippe it out of this apparell, and all the limmes of it are full of sores and blisters, worse then the French euil.
Hart.
This is a spitefull spéech, and a malicious sclander. But you kepe your wont.
Rainoldes.
If I speake vntruely, conuince me of vntruth. If not: why vse you these reproches? This was your argument out of Doctor Stapleton ▪ if you will giuegive me leaue to strip it. The Scribes and the Pharises were to be obeyed in all thinges which they saide, because they sate in the chaire of Moses, that is, Successioni Aaronicae.they did succeed Aaron. The Popes, (howsoeuer they liue,) doo sit in Christes chaire, that is, 4S…cce…entibu… in sedem Apo…olorum.they are successours of the Apostles: which hath a greater prerogatiue. The Popes must be therefore obeyed much more in all thinges which they say. But men might not obey them, if they should erre. Therefore they cannot erre in any thing they say. Was not this the verie bodie of your argument?
Hart.
It was so, in substance: and what faute finde you with it?
Rainoldes.
None, but (as I saide) that all the limmes of it are full of sores and blisters. For the first proposition (the contagion whereof infecteth the whole argument) hath two notorious fautes touching the Scribes and Pharises: one, that by their sitting in the chaire of Moses, is meant that they succeeded Aaron: an other, that, because they succeeded Aaron, they were to be obeyed in all thinges which they saide.
Hart.
What? did not the Pharises and Scribes succéede Aaron?
Rainoldes.
That is not the question. Yet you may dout of that too. And how doo you proue it?
Hart.
Nay, how doo you disproue it?
Rainoldes.
None succéeded Aaron, in offering sacrifices to God, and teaching Israell his law, sauing iDeut. 33.10.the tribe of Leui. But the Pharises might be of other tribes: and were so.
Hart.
How proue you that?
Rainoldes.
S. Paul was kPhil. 3.5.of the tribe of Beniamin, an Ebrue borne of Ebrues, according to the law a Pharisee. So was lAct 23.6.his father too. And if the tribes of all, of whom account was made that way, had béene registred: it would be as easily prooued of others, as it is of Beniamin. For whereas there were thrée sectes among the Iewes, eche differing from other in pointes of religion, Pharises, Sadduces, and Esses: the mPhilo Iudaeus, quód quisque bonus sit liber: &, De vita contemplatiua.Esses auoiding the companie of other men, least they should staine their maners, and liuing with them selues alone (like to moonkes,) did leaue ye Temple & cities to Pharises & Sadduces. The nIoseph. antiquit▪ Iudaicar. l. 18. c. 2.Sadduces were few, & their opinions wicked: in so much, that euen the common people did detest them. The Pharises in number more, in reputation greater, and oAct. 23.8.sounder in beliefe: pAct. 2.6.5.the most exact sect, and qAct. 22.3.coming néerest to the law. Which rIoseph. de bello Iud. l. 2. c. 7. & l. 1. c. 4. Antiq. Iudaic. l. 18. cap. ….they expounded in such exact maner, and séemed holy withall: that they bare the sway for religion amongst the multitude; yea, cities flowed vntounto them, accounting them the best both in life and doctrine. Wherefore sith the Pharises were so well estéemed, & did swarme in Iurie: it is not to be thought, but that other tribes had some of that profession, chiefely the tribe of Iuda.
Hart.
If Iuda, if Beniamin, if other tribes had of them: much more by all likelihood had the tribe of Leui. And them might our Sauiour specially meane, not generally all, in saying, The Pharises doo sit vponupon the chaire of Moses. As, if I should say that the Catholikes sit vponupon the chaire of Christ: you must not thinke I meane of Catholikes who be scholers, but of Catholikes who be teachers; of Catholike Priestes, and Bishops.
Rainoldes.
Your answere hath reason. For sAct. 22.….as S. Paule was a Pharise-scholer; so was Gamaliel a Pharise-teacher. And, that there were Pharises of ye Priestes & Leuites, ye scripture sheweth, saying, that tIoh. 1. ver. 1….the Iewes sent Priestes and Leuites from Ierusalem to talke with Iohn Baptist: and uver. 24.they who were sent, were of the Pharises. Wherefore, that the Pharises did succeede Aaron: the likelihood is great. That the Scribes: greater. For, they xMat. 7.29.expounded & taught the law of God, (whence they were also called now yforeign. Luc. 5.17.Doctors of the law, now zforeign. Luk. 7.30.Lawiers) by duetie and office. Whereupon, when Herode desired to know where Christ should be borne: aMatt. 2.4.he gathered togither all the chiefe Priests and Scribes of the people to learne it of them. It is most likely then, that they succéeded Aaron too: as did their predecessor Ezra bEzr. 7.6.the Scribe, prompt in the law of Moses. Yet your Doctor cChronograph…ae lib. 2.Genebrard saith, that the Scribes were lightly of the tribe of Simeon: and they with the Pharises are said to hauehave sate in the chaire of Moses, as who had thrust them selues into it being emptie, while the Priestes abusing the riches of the Church did forsake their duetie.
Hart.
If Genebrard, or any other of our Doctors, hauehave a conceit of his owne: what is that to me? I folow the receiued s…ntence of the Church, that the Scribes and Pharises came into the chaire of Moses by succession, and not by intrusion. But why do you, agréeing with me in this point, reproue it in my argument?
Rainoldes.
I reproued it not. The point which I reproued, was that you expounded the wordes of Christ so: They sate in 2…thed…ae Mo…sis, succes…io…i Aaronic….the chaire of Moses, that is, they did succeede Aaron. Which exposition is erroneous, and verie dangerous to the truth: though the danger of it not so apparant in it selfe, as in the consequent. For it is the mother of a greater error.
Hart.
And how would you hauehave it expounded, I pray?
Rainoldes.
According to the word and meaning of Christ. The Scribes and the Pharises sit in the chaire of Moses: that is, they teach the law of Moses. For as dDeut. 5.31. & 6.1.Moses him selfe receiued it of God to teach it the children of Israel, and he did so: in like sort eNehem. 8.8.the Priestes and Leuites after him were vsed to reade it in the assemblies of the people, and to expound it. To this end their synagogues were built in eueryevery citie, and euerie Sabbat day they met there, as it is written, fAct. 15.21.Moses of olde time hath in euerie citie them that preach him being read in the Synagogues euerie Sabbat day. Now they, who did teach, were wont to teach sitting: which appeereth by our Sauiours example gMat. 26.25. Ioh. 8.2.in the temple, hLuc. 4.20.in the synagogues, iMat. 5.1. Luc. 5.3.in other places. Wherfore the Scribes and Pharises (of whom there were some kLuc. 5.17.in euerie towne of Galile, and Iurie, and Ierusalem, to discharge this duetie) are said to hauehave *foreign.sate in the seat of Moses (or chaire, as we terme it) because they did teach the same which Moses did, euen the law of God deliuered to Moses.
Hart.
The matter is not great, whether you expound it thus or as we doo.
Rainoldes.
Yes. For it foloweth of your exposition that the Scribes and Pharises said well in all things which they said, because they did succeede Aaron: and so, that 2Successioni adiuncta fidei & doctrinae indu…tata firmit….succession (which is the marke you shoote at) hath certaintie of doctrine and faith knit vntounto it. Whereas the right lesson, which you should gather thence, is, that the Scribes and Pharises said well in all thinges which they said out of the word of God ▪ and so that Gods word is simplie true and certaine; but men ordeined to teach it must be heard no farther th…n they agree with it. And this might D. Stapleton hauehave learned of the same Fathers whom he cited▪ but that he rather readeth them to mainetaine a faction, then to learne the truth. For Austin doth interpret the chaire, not of succession, but lAugustin. epis…. 166. in sine.of wholsome doctrine, in the which they sit, who speake the good things of God: &, mTractat. in Iohann. …6. and so in all the places quoted by D. Stapleton.we are willed to heare God speaking by them, when we are willed to do the things which they say. For in sitting on Moses chaire, they teach the law of God▪ therefore by them God doth teach. But if they would teach their owne things, (saith Austin) heare them not, obey them not. So doth nIn Matthaeum hom. 73.Chrysostome expound it, Doo all things which the Scribes and Pharises say you must doo: for they preach not their owne things, but the things which God commaunded by Moses. So doth oIn Ezekiel. hom. 7.Origen apply it to them who teach the faith aright: with a speciall clause, that Christians, if they see a preacher liue ill, and hauehave not to charge him with teaching ill doctrine; they must frame their liues according to his words not deedes. If they hauehave not to charge him with teaching ill doctrine: as if he should say, that who soeuer teach ill doctrine, they sit not in the chaire of Moses. Let them succéede Aaron neuer so directly▪ yet if their doctrine be ill, they sit not in the chaire of Moses. Whereby you may sée the wretched state of yt argument of which you made so great vaunt. For the first proposition, that the Scribes and Pharises were to be obeied in all thinges which they said, because they sate in the chaire of Moses, that is, they did succeede Aaron: is fouly corrupted in the point of succession. The second, that the Popes do sit in Christes chaire, that is, they are successors of the Apostles: is tainted with the same…canker that the first. The conclusion therefore, that men must obey the Popes in all thinges which they say; and the consequent thereof, that they cannot erre in any thing they say: are children like their parents, as sound as the propositions of which they are begotten. The filthines of all the which if yet you sée not▪ behold an other light to sée it by. The Scribes, amongst the Iewes, were as the Canonists are with you; the Pharises, as the Schoolemen: your pChronogr. lib. ….Genebrard doth match them so. Or, if you like not his iudgement therein, because Schoolemen and Canonists say not true in all thinges: yet this you must graunt that Priestes are with you, as Scribes and Pharises were with them. For qIn Ioh…n. hom. 85.Chrysostome saith, (they be the verie wordes which you did passe ouer for breuities sake:) we must not say now, In the chaire of Moses, but, in the chaire of Christ doo the Priests sit: for they hauehave receiued his doctrine. Which point (vnlesse your former argument were naught) will proue that 1Quia super …a…hedram sedent, quia lo…um Christi tenent.Priestes cannot erre no more then Popes. For they, who sit in Christes chaire, hauehave greater prerogatiue then they who sate in the chaire of Moses: Priestes, then Scribes and Pharises. The Scribes and the Pharises were to be obeied in all things which they said. The Priestes must bee therefore much more obeied in all things. But if they should erre, then ought they not to be obeied. Therefore they cannot erre in any thing they say. Acknowledge you the forme of your owne argument? Doth not the conclusion folow as necessarily here, as there? And thinke you (M. Hart) that Priestes cannot erre? Thinke you that your selfe are of this perfection? that wée ought to obey, both you, and your companions, in all thinges which you say? Or if you thinke not so fondly of them, so proudly of your selfe, as (I hope) you do not: then leaue Doctor Stapletons exposition, which inferreth it; which he patcheth vp with the wordes of Austin, Chrysostome, and Origen, whereas not one of them meant it. Yéelde rather (if you be wedded to Doctors of your owne side) vntounto their authoritie, then whom ye Church of Rome hath none of greater knowledge and perfiter iudgement for right interpreting of ye scriptures: I meane, Iohn Ferus, & Arias Montanus. Of whom rAr. Montan. Elucidat. in Matt. 23.the one saith, that Christ taught his disciples to obserue and doo whatsoeuer the Scribes and the Pharises commanded *Ex praescripto legis, id est ex cathedra Mosis.by the prescript of the law, that is, out of the chaire of Moses: sIo. Ferus comment. in Mart. lib. 3.the other, that he chargeth vsus to obey euil prelates, yet withall he addeth how farre we must obey them. Do ye (saith he) all things, which they shall say vntounto you: but he had told them first, they sit vponupon the chaire of Moses. For Christ did not meane, that they should obserue all the decrees of Pharises, but *Qua…enus le… conso…arent.so farre forth, as they agreed with the law. According whereunto, when he had shewed before also, that tMat. 15.5.they taught contrarie to the law in some pointes: after certaine things touched betweene, he added, uMat. 16.6.Beware of the leauen of the Pharises. In like sort he said to the Apostles and their successours; xLuc. 10.1….Hee that heareth you, heareth me; and he that despiseth you, despiseth me: and, yMat…. 10. vers. 14.it shall be easier for the land of Sodom in the day of iudgement, then for them, who shall not receiue you and heare your wordes. But Matthew had set downe before that Christ chose zvers. 1.twelue, whom he avers. 2. & 5.called Apostles, and bvers. 7.charged them to preach the gospell. Whereby it appeereth that the Apostles must be heard, but so farre forth as they be Apostles, that is, as they doo Christes worke, and preach and teach the thinges which Christ commanded. But if they teach other thinges and contrarie to Christ: then are they not Apostles now, but seducers, and therefore not to be heard. O the great light of truth: which forceth euen the aduersaries not onelyonly to perceiue it, but also to reueale it often. So will it force you too: if you hauehave so much grace as Ferus and Montanus had.
Hart.
So much grace, as to say, that if the Apostles teach thinges contrarie to Christ, they are no Apostles now, but seducers. Doo you allow that spéech of Ferus? And might the Apostles be seducers?
Rainoldes.
Peter, an Apostle, might say vntounto Christ, (when he heard him speake of suffering at Ierusalem,) cMatt. 1…. vers. 22.Maister, pitie thy selfe, this shall not be vntounto thee. And Christ would not therefore hauehave called him dvers. 22.Satan, had he not thought him a seducer.
Hart.
But Christ did giuegive them afterwarde eAct. 2.4.the holy ghost in greater abundance from heauen: when he sent them to preach vntounto all the world.
Rainoldes.
But Christ had told them before, that fMatt. 10.15.it should be easier for Sodom and Gomorrha, then for the citie that shold not heare their wordes. Yet Christ himselfe refused to heare the wordes of Peter. Wherefore the exposition of Ferus is good, that Christ meant those wordes, which he had willed them to preach, that is, the gospell. Beside that, Ferus speaketh not onelyonly of Apostles, but also of their successours. Now though the Apostles were priuileged afterwarde by the speciall graces of the holy ghost to teach the truth in all thinges: yet Bishops, who succeeded them, hauehave not that priuilege. You must renounce therfore that erroneous expositiō which knitteth an assured truth of faith and doctrine 2Ipsi successioni Apo …olica.to the succession of the Apostles, and bindeth vsus in all thinges to obey 4Suceedenubus in sedem Apostolorum.them who succeede into the seate of the Apostles, and saith that 6O… cathedrā tenet Apostolicam.he who sitteth in the chaire of the Apostles, doth speake not his owne thinges, but the thinges of God. For our Sauiour meant, that the Scribes & Pharises ought to be obeied in al things which they taught out of the law of God: not, that they c…uld not erre in faith and doctrine, because 2Successioni Aaronicae.they did succeede Aaron.
Hart.
I cannot conceiue, but that he meant to cléere their doctrine from errour. For his wordes of doing that which they say, because they sit in the chaire of Moses, are rather a warrāt for them, in all thinges which they teach; then a restraint for others, how farre they must obey them.
Rainoldes.
His wordes belong properly to the instruction of hearers: that they despise not the doctrine of God for the fautes of teachers. So are they both a warrant, and a restraint by consequent. A warrant, for teachers to be obeied in all things, which they shall say out of the law. A restraint, for hearers not to doo those thinges whi…h the teachers say, if they shall teach against the law. As letters of credence geuen by Princes vntounto their embassadours, doo warrant them, for their commission; restraine them, if they goe beyond it.
Hart.
But the commission here is generall for all thinges that concerne teachers. For Christ expresly s…ith: obserue ye and doo ye. Now, 3Dogmata fidei seruamus. Praecepta morum facimus.we obserue pointes of faith; we doo precepts of maners. Wherefore, whatsoeuer the Scribes and Pharises taught either of faith, or maners: they were to be obeyed in it.
Rainoldes.
That were a pretie proofe for your *Traditiones …um ad fidem tum ad mores pertinentes. Conc. Trid. Sess. 4.traditions of both sortes, if it had ground in the text. But [to obserue] and [doo] are both referred by Christ to the same thinges: as he sheweth by comprising them first in the one worde, then in the other. All thinges whatsoeuer they say you must aforeign.obserue, obserue ye, and doo ye: but after their workes bforeign.doo not: for they say, and doo not. So it séemeth, that to fasten his lesson of obeying the commandements of God, which the Scribes and Pharises taught out of Moses, he doubleth (as it were) his stroke, by saying both cforeign.obserue ye, and doo ye. Wherein he might expresse and call to their remembrance that which he doth commend of Moses: who doubleth oft dforeign Deut. 4.6. & 7.12. & 16.12. & 26.16. & 28.13.the same wordes in vrging of the same doctrine. To be short, eforeign.the worde which your exposition forceth to pointes of faith: Christ himselfe applyeth it to precepts of maners, fforeign. Matt. 19.17.kepe the commandements. So pithie is the timber of which you frame your fansies. Though if we should take it all as verie sounde, and graunt that Christ meant [obseruing] and [dooing] of beléefe and life: your purpose is not proued thereby. For whether pointes of faith, or precepts of maners: he willeth Scribes and Pharises to bée obeyed no farther, then in what they teach out of the chaire of Moses.
Hart.
The wordes of our Sauiour are a great deale larger. You straitē them, I know not how. All things whatsoeuer they shall say vntounto you, obserue ye, and doo ye: marke, he saith all thinges. And he that saith all thinges, doth except nothing. You except many.
Rainoldes.
The Lord did command the people of Israell to repaire in causes of difficultie and doubt to the Priestes and to the iudge: and aske, and they shall shew thee the sentence of iudgement; and gDeut. 17.10.thou shalt obserue to doo according vntounto all that they shall teach thee. These wordes [thou shalt obserue to doo according vntounto all that they shall teach thee,] the Iewes are accustomed to alleage commonly, when they defend their fond traditions receiued of their Fathers. And hR. Selom. Iarchi, in Deut. 17.Selomoh, a Rabbin whom they make great account off, doth glose them with this note, Thou must not decline from that which they shall tell thee, *foreignno not though they say that the right hand is the left, and the left hand is the right. A mightie spirit of errour, that hath bewitched these men. But you and your Church doo runne apace after them. Perhaps you thinke you may be as bolde for your Popes, as Rabbi Selomoh for their Priestes.
Hart.
No sir. For I graunt that Rabbi Selomoh speaketh foolishly. Which is plaine by the place it selfe whereon he gloseth. For the scripture saith there: thou shalt doo all that they shall teach thee; according to the law, or to *Iuxta legem eius. vulg. edit.his law, as we reade it. Wherefore to doo all that the Priestes taught, is not meant of thinges vngodlie or false, but onelyonly true and consonant to the law of God.
Rainoldes.
Euen so the scripture sarth here: The Scribes and the Pharises doo sit in the chaire of Moses; all thinges therefore whatsoeuer they say you must obserue, obserue ye and doo ye. Wherein the word [therefore] restraineth all thinges to that which they teach in the chaire of Moses: that is, (as I hauehave shewed,) out of the law of God. So that (by your leaue) the dreame of the Iewes is as wise as yours, in this point of all. And as you say to vsus, so may they to you: he that saith all thinges, doth except nothing. You except many.
Hart.
Nay, I except nothing of all which the Scribes and the Pharises teach. For Christ (as I saide) requireth all those thinges to be obserued which they teach: because 5Non alia docent quám quae seruanda sunt.they teach not other thinges but such as are to be obserued.
Rainoldes.
But if they taught any thing against the law of God: I trust you will except that, and graunt that all was not to be obserued which they taught.
Hart.
If they taught any thing against the law: I graunt. But I deny that they taught any thing against it: yea, or could teach.
Rainoldes.
And why doo you deny it?
Hart.
Because Christ saith of them, they sit vpō the chaire of Moses. Whereby (to take your owne exposition,) he meant, they teach as Moses did. Now, if they taught as Moses: then taught they not against the law; neither could they. For if they could teach against the law of God: then might that bee false which was meant by Christ, that they teach as Moses.
Rainoldes.
That reason holdeth not. For many speake the truth, who can lye, if néede be: and many speake the truth in some thinges, who in all thinges doo not. Christ respecteth that which the Scribes and Pharises did ordinarily: they read the law in the Synagogues; they willed the people to obserue it; yea, in outward thinges, as ceremonies, tithes, purifyings, and sabbats, they did exact it most straitly. But as Paul said vntounto the hye Priest, iAct. 23.3.thou sittest to iudge me according to the law, and doost thou command me to be smitten against the law? so did they some times teach against the law, when they should teach according to it. And hereof is proofe made by Christ him selfe: who therefore willed his disciples to beware of kMat. 16. vers. 6.the leauen, that is, lvers. 12.the doctrine of the Pharises.
Hart.
Then belike they sate not vponupon the chaire of Moses, at some times when they taught.
Rainoldes.
True: but cleane beside it, vponupon a stoole of their owne. For Moses mIoh. 5.46.wrote of Christ, and nRom. 10.4.Christ is the end of his law. But oIoh. 7.48. & 8.13. & 9.22. & 12.42.they refused Christ, and taught the people so to doo. pLuc. 6.7.They watched him of purpose, that they might finde matter of accusation against him. qThe Scribes: Mar. 3.22. The Pharises: Matt. 12.24.They pronounced of him, that he cast out diuels by the Prince of diuels. rMar. 14.64.They condemned him as guiltie of death. sLuc. 23.2.They saide that they had found him a man peruerting the nation, forbidding to pay tribute to Caesar. They sclaunderously accused the iust: they did blaspheme the God of glory: they put to death the Lord of life. tMatt. 23.13.They neither entred them selues into the kingdome of heauen, nor suffered others to enter in.
Hart.
I graunt that in the person of Christ they did erre: but they did not erre in expounding the law. For when they were demaunded where Christ should bee borne, uMatt. 2.5.they said, at Bethleem in Iudaea: and they said well. But because xLuc. 1.26. & 2.4.the virgin Marie and Ioseph dwelt at Nazareth in Galile, before he was borne, and yMatt. 2.23.there he liued with them after, in so much that he was called Iesus of Nazareth: zIoh. 7. vers. 41.41. & …2.they thought he had beene borne there, not at Bethleem; and so they were deceiued, and did not know him to be Christ.
Rainoldes.
Yet this is the substance of the word of life: not that there shalbe a Christ, which the Iewes beleeue till this day; but that Iesus of Nazareth, whom they crucified, was that Christ. The Scribes and the Pharises said, he was not. Ought the Iewes herein to beleeue, as they said? If you thinke that they ought: no maruaile if you hold, that we must doo as Popes say. If you thinke, they ought not: then the Scribes and Pharises did erre in some thinge that they taught. As for that you answere, they erred in Christes person, not in expounding the law: it is a méere cauill. For we speake in generall of the chaire of Moses, that is, of his doctrine. They erred in expounding the doctrine of Moses, when they denyed to Christ the thinges which Moses wrote of him. Howbeit that it is false too, that they erred not in expounding the law. For whereas aRo. 7. vers. 12.the law is holy and bvers. 14.spirituall, requiring perfit righteousnes cMatt. 22.37.1 Deut. 6.5. Leuit …7.…8.not onelyonly in the outward actions of the bodie, but also in the in ward affections of the minde: the Scribes and the Pharises taught that the affection is no transgression of the law, so that a man refraine from the action of dooing euill. As, for example, it is saide in the law, Thou shalt not kill. This commaundement dMat. 5. ver. 21.they tyed to the act of murther, and glosed thus vponupon it; whosoeuer killeth shall be culpable of iudgement: as though it bridled only the hand, and not the heart. In like sort ever. 27.they expounded, Thou shalt not commit adulterie: as if it were enough to kéepe the flesh chast, the soule defiled with vncleannes. But our Sauiour teacheth them an other lesson: that, howsoeuer they pretend fver. 21. & 27.antiquitie for their gloses, yet wrath, malice, lust, euen the very affections of murther and adulterie doo breake the commandements, and not the outward déedes onelyonly. The rest of their peruerse expositions I passe ouer. gver. 43.The last may serue for all. Thou shalt louelove thy neighbour, as thy selfe, saith the law. Wherein, the worde [*Heb. foreign of a verbe that signifieth to ioyne and consociate. neighbour] doth signifie, as you would say, one that is ioyned to vsus, as all men are, some more, some lesse, but all in a naturall bond of humanitie. The very light of nature hath taught the heathens so much: who 1Cicero de officiis lib. 1.saw that certaine dueties are due from all men, each to other, through this coniunction of mankind, and so 2Aeschines in orat. contr. C…e …ip. Aristot. Rhetor. ad Theodect. l. 2.hauehave likewise vsed the name of [neighbors] generally for al other men; as hLuc. 10.30.it is meant in this commaundement, Thou shalt louelove thy neighbour. But the Scribes & Pharises, thinking that [a neighbour] doth signifie a freend, who beareth vsus good will, and him wee ought to louelove: did thereupon gather and glose of the contrarie, And thou shalt hate thine enimie. Which interpretation of the law is lewd: and sheweth that they were grossely blinde in expounding it. Wherefore our Sauiour reprouing their corruptions in this and other of their doctrines, doth say to his disciples: iMatt. 5 20.Except your righteousnes exceede the righteousnes of the Scribes and Pharises, yee shall not enter into the kingdome of heauen.
Hart.
Our Sauiour might speake these wordes of their liues, and not of their doctrines because they were wont to say, and not to doo. As for the pointes which you say were gloses of the Scribes and Pharises: some of the Fathers take them to bée the law of Moses it selfe, corrected, and supplied, or rather perfited by Christ. So doth S. kIn Matthaeum hom. 16.17. & 18. Homil. 10. in opere imperfect.Chrysostome compare the one with the other, as the olde law with the new: and saith that the commaundements of Moses are easie, refraine from murther and adulterie; but the commaundements of Christ hard, refraine from wrath and lust. So doth S. lDe sermone Domini in monte l. 1. c. 9.12.17.19. & 21.Austin séeme to hauehave thought also.
Rainoldes.
They thought so, (I graunt,) good men, and well meaning, abused by the craft of the Scribes and Pharises: who, to winne the people thereby the more easily vntounto their opinions, did vtter them in Moses wordes, though with an other sense then Moses. As, that which mLeu. 19.12. Num. 30.3.he meant of lawfull othes, and vowes; nMat. 5.33.they turned it to vnlawfull: oExod. 21.24.of punishment by publike iudgement; pMat. 5.38.they turned it to priuate reuengement. But this shift of theirs, (which Christ doth but allude vntounto, as notorious,) did cary S. qDe Serm. Dom. in mont. l. 1. c. 21.Austin away with such a preiudice: that he thought this also to be writen in the law, (because *Matt. 5.43.it cometh in, as the rest,) Thou shalt hate thine enimie; whereas the law rExod. 23.4.commaundeth men to louelove their enimies, and to doo them good. The lesse maruell is it, if he were deceiued in the former pointes. In the which yet afterward he saw his errour and corrected it. For, when the Manichees, who condemned the God of the old Testament as contrarie to the new, did reason out of this place that Christ reproueth sundry pointes in the law of Moses: sAugustin. contr. Faust. Manich. lib. 19. cap. 23.he answered that Christ reproueth not the law, but them who mistooke it, who thought that the forbidding of murther and adulterie did touch, not the affections and lustes, but actes onelyonly. And though it came not then into his mind neither, that the law saith not, Thou shalt hate thine enimie: tcap. 24.yet hee considered, that it could not otherwise be meant in the old Testament, then, as in the new we must hate our enimies, or rather Gods enimies, hate uReu. 2.6. Augustin. in Psal. 138.their vices, not their persons. S. Chrysostome in this point slipped not so much. For xHe saith the speech is lewd, and the thing vniust. In Matth. hom. 13. in opere imperfect.his wordes thereof be such, that it séemeth not, he thought it writen in the law. If in the rest he did not retract, as Austin did: he had not the Manichees to sharpen him, as Austin had. Their folly would hauehave made him wiser. At least, what soeuer the Fathers thought therein: it is certaine that Christ reproued not the law of God, but the gloses of men vponupon it. Which the newer writers, euen of yArias Montanus & Iohannes Ferus in Mat. 5.your owne, acknowledge: yea, zIn exposit. praecepti, Non occides.the Catechisme of Trent too. And one, aNic. Lira in Matt. 5. & Exod. 20.a Iewe by ofspring, conuerted to the Christian faith, doth note out of the writings of an bIoseph. antiquit. Iud. l. 12. c. 23.auncient Iewe, who liued about the time of Christ, that the Iewes thought the outward deedes onelyonly, and not the motions of the mind to bee forbidden by the commaundements. Wherefore in that you say, that Christ, when he taught that his disciples righteousnes ought to exceede the righteousnes of the Scribes and Pharises, might speake that of their liues, and not of their doctrines: you say well of the one side, but not of the other. For he meant it of both. Which appéereth by this, that he therein giueth a reason of his former spéech, as ye word [for] doth shew: cMatt. 5. ver. 20.for I say vntounto you, except your righteousnes excede the righteousnes of the Scribes and Pharises, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heauen. Now the former spéech was, that dver. 19.who soeuer shall breake one of these least commaundements, and teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdome of heauen, that is, he shall be none in it. The Scribes and Pharises therfore, men famous for their righteousnes, who counted these commaundements (mentioned by Christ) least, that is, they made no count of them, as thinking wrath, and malice, and lust, no transgressions; are noted to hauehave offended not onelyonly in breaking them, but in teaching so too. And how did they teach so, but (as Christ declareth) by misexpounding the law? Therfore in expounding the law they did erre.
Hart.
They did erre, after a sort: yet marke withall, how. They taught that the actions of muther and adulterie are forbidden by the law: but they taught not that the affections are forbidden. This was in deede to teach lesse then the law▪ but not to teach against the law. Yea, to hate their enimies was after a sort also commaunded in the law. For when God sent the children of Israel into the land of Canaan, eNum. 33.52.he charged them to cast out all the inhabitants of that land. Now those inhabitants were fDeut. 6.19.their enimies: and of these enimies God saith, gDeut. 7.2.Thou shalt vtterly destroy them, thou shalt make no couenant with them, nor hauehave compassion vponupon them. Behold, they must destroy them. Was this to hate them, or no?
Rainoldes.
It was to kill them, I am sure. And so, by your reason, the law commaunded men to kill their enimies also, not to hate them onelyonly. But in truth they were not charged to hate them, though they were charged to destroy them. For, the inhabitants of the land of Canaan whom God did will them to destroy, the Hittites, and Amorites, and Iebusites, and the re…t, were destroyed hDeut. 9.5.for their wickednes, iDeut. 18.11.their idolatries, their sorceries, kLeu. 18.24.and other horrible abominations. It was a punishment then and iudgement of God, which the Israelites did execute in putting them to death. Now, to punish the wicked, is to doo them good, For (as naturall reason taught lPlat. in Gorgia.a Philosopher) vices in the mind, are, as diseases in the bodie; and punishments, as medicines. So that, as for a sicke man to drinke a bitter potion, or to be launced, or seared, it is good, though it be grieuous: in like sort, to be punished, is for a lewd person. Therefore when the Israelites did punish and destroy the inhabitants of Canaan: they did not hate them in so dooing; at least they were not charged to hate them. For, to hate a man, is to wish him euill. To punish an offender, is to doo him good. The charge of the Israelites was that they should punish them. In that they were therefore charged to destroy them, they were not charged to hate them. And this is yet plainer by the new Testament. Where, though mMat. 5.44.we be charged to hate no man liuing, but to louelove all: yet nRom. 13.4.the sword is left to execute vengeance on him that doth euill. Wherefore (to returne vntounto the point in question) when the Scribes and Pharises made that wicked glose, Thou shalt hate thine enimie: they taught against the law. And so did they too, when they taught, that euill and sinfull affections are not forbidden by the law. You say they taught lesse therein then the law, but they taught not against it. I say, they taught against it, because they taught lesse. For it is writen, oDeut. 4.….ye shal not adde vntounto it, nor shall ye take from it. To doo lesse then it willeth, is to take from it. To take from it, is to breake it.pMatt 5.19. To breake it, and to teach so, was the faulte of the Scribes & Pharises. Howbeit, if you thinke them not yet sufficiently conuicted: you shall heare a farther & manifester proofe, which is without al exception. In ye law of Moses God hath commanded, qExod. 20.12.Honour thy father and thy mother ▪ where the word [honour] conteineth all dueties of seruice, louelove, and awe, which children owe vntounto their parents. The Iewes, as they were prone to make vngodly vowes, 1Philo Iudaeus de specialibus legibus: foreign.so this was an vsuall kind of vowe amongst them, and they would bind it with an oth, that such or such a man should hauehave no profit by them. The othe, which they vsed herein, as most solemne, was, By the gift, or offering. For so they were instructed page missing
Hart.
It was proper to 1Sacerdotum … proprium.the Priestes to sit vponupon the chaire of Moses. But the Scribes▪
Rainoldes.
That is false first. It was not proper to the Priestes, but common to them with the Leuites: as iDeut. 33.10.the wordes of Moses compared with kNehem. 8.8.their practise shew.
Hart.
Perhaps by [the Priestes] he meaneth the Priestly tribe, the tribe of Leui. And so I take his wordes. Then it was proper to that tribe to sit vponupon the chaire of Moses. But 2Neque Scribae ne que Pharisaei erant necessario de genere sacerdotum.the Scribes and Pharises were not of that tribe necessarily: for they might be of other tribes.
Rainoldes.
But the Scribes and Pharises were not of that tribe necessarily. Therefore they were not of that tribe. Is this the Doctors reason? As if a man should say, M. Doctour Genebrard doth not speake the truth necessarily (for he can lye some times:) therefore he speaketh not the truth.
Hart.
Nay, my meaning is, that they were of other tribes, not onelyonly that they might be.
Rainoldes.
So is my meaning too, that he doth lye sometimes, not onelyonly that he can lye. Yet how doth he proue, that they were of other tribes?
Hart.
That the Pharises were; his proofe néedeth not: for you graunt it your selfe. That 3Scrib… feré erant de paupere triba Simeoni….the Scribes were lightly of the poore tribe of Simeon, he proueth by two witnesses: the one, Rabbi Selomoh; the other, the Chaldee, vponupon the nine and fourtieth chapter of Genesis.
Rainoldes.
He abuseth two witnesses. For he séemeth by the Chaldee, to meane the Chaldee Paraphrast: and the Chaldee Paraphrast hath not a worde to that purpose. As for Rabbi Selomoh, he hath some such wordes: but D. Genebrard wresteth and depraueth them. For whereas the Rabbin saith, that 4foreignpoore Scribes and such as taught litle children, were not but of the tribe of Simeon: he maketh him to say, that Scribes for the most part were of the poore tribe of Simeon. In the which report he committeth two faultes. One, that where his autor doth speake of poore Scribes who taught litle children, as scriueners doo with vsus to write: he taketh it of great Scribes, who expounded the law to all the people, lMatt. 2.5.yea, to Princes. An other, that where his autor saith, they were not but of the tribe of Simeon, which in the great Scribes would bée cléerely false (for Ezra mEzr. 7. ver. 6.the Scribe was of the nver. 5tribe of Leui: he, to mend the bolt and make it fit for his bow, saith that they were *Ferè.lightly (or, for the most part) of the tribe of Simeon. So, what Rabbi Selomoh doth absolutly deny, that Doctor Genebrard tempereth with a qualification: and of these wordes, [the poore Scribes were of the tribe of Simeon;] he maketh these, [the Scribes were of the poore tribe of Simeon.] This is a prety sleight, and such as is not common amongst the auncient Sophisters, whom oIn Gorgia & Euthydem.Plato painteth out. But the Sorbonists doo passe them. Yet is D. Genebrard to blame to play such tri…kes when he shall gaine so litle by them. For what if a Rabbin, a Iew, who liued of late yeres, had said, that the Scribes were not of the Leuiticall tribe? That nation is striken with madnes, and with blindnes, and with astonishment of heart, since they hauehave shut their eyes against pMal. 4.2.the Sunne of righteousnesse: and the plague which God did threaten them, is come vponupon them; qDeut. 28.29.Thou shalt grope at noone dayes, as the blinde doth grope in darkenes. The tokens hereof are rife in their Rabbines handling of the scriptures. Who (beside the filth of many other folies wherewith they doo soile them) are wont in such places as they are coombred with, (though often plaine and easie;) to péece out their gloses with braine-sicke dreames, and sotti…h fables. In Genesis it is prophecied of Simeon, and Leui, rGen. 49.7.I will diuide them in Iacob, and scatter them in Israel. In Iosua it is shewed how this prophecie was performed both in sIos…. 19.1.Simeon, and tIosu. 21.3.Leui Rabbi Selomoh, not perceiuing it, surmised that the trib… of Simeon must be scattered in the same sort as was the t…ibe of Leui. Wherefore as the Leuites were sc…ttered throughout Israel, uDeut. 33.10.to teach the whole Church: so hee had a fansie that the Simeonites were to teach litle children. With this he did trauell, and he brought it forth: he thought it might be; he liked it should be; he wrote it was so. Wherefore, if Rabbi Selomoh had meant the same Scribes of whom our Sauiour spake: his credit is too poore to witnesse what they were, who liued a thousand yeares before him, vnlesse he proue it better. But that the Pharises were of other tribes and not of Leui onelyonly: D. Genebrard proueth (you say) and I graunt it. True. And I graunt farther (which xChronog. lib. 2 Phar…s… erant Catholici.he proueth too) that they were Catholikes. But your selfe did tell me that if you should say, that the Catholikes sit vponupon the chaire of Christ, I must not thinke you meane of Catholikes who be scholers, but of Catholikes who be teachers; of Catholike Priestes, and Bishops. The Scribes and Pharises therefore had ordinary succession, for any thing that Genebrard sheweth to the contrarie. But they did both erre them selues, and teach errours. Then they, who succéed ordinarily, may erre and teach errours. Now the Popes succeede in the chaire of the Apostles, as the Scribes and Pharises did in the chaire of Aaron. The Popes are not warranted therefore by succession but they may erre, and teach errours.
Hart.
Nay, I denie that. For they hauehave greater grace then had the Scribes and Pharises. Wherefore, not, if the Scribes and Pharises erred, therefore the Popes may.
Rainoldes.
Nay, as you brew, so must you drinke. It is your owne comparison of Popes with Scribes and Pharises, euen in the chaire too. And (to say the truth) they are well compared: sauing that the Popes are somewhat behind them in succession, and farre beyond them in errours.
Hart.
Not so. For howsoeuer it fared with Scribes and Pharises:The fifth Diuision. I will proue by a manifest demonstration out of the scripture, that Popes cannot erre in doctrine.
Rainoldes.
If you do so, I yéeld. For one out of the scripture, as good with me, as a thousand.
Hart.
You must obserue then, Staplet. prine. doct…in. lib. 5. …ap. 9.that the scripture noteth foure kindes of men, who by teaching the folke that are named Christians, doo either leade them, or misleade them, that is, doo either guide them in the right way, or seduce them from it. The first of them, Pastors; the second, Hirelinges; the third, Theeues; and the fourth, Woolues. All whom Christ hath shewed almost in one place togither. For in S. yIoh. 1….Iohns gospell he saith of the theefe: He that entreth not by the doore into the sheepefold, but climeth vp an other way, he is a theefe and a robber. Of the pastor he saith; But he that entreth by the doore, is the pastor of the sheepe. And a litle after, I am (saith he) the doore. And anone, making a subdiuision of the pastor into his members, he sheweth that a pastor is of two sortes, the one, good; the other, an hireling. The good pastor (saith he) doth giuegive his life for his sheepe. But an hireling, and he which is not the pastor, that is, which deserueth not the name of a pastor, because hee loueth more the goods of the world then the sheepe (saith zHomil. 14. super euangelia.Gregorie the great) seeth the woolfe coming, and leaueth the sheepe, and fleeth. He is a theefe therefore who climeth vp an other way: that is (as aLib. 1. epist. 6.Cyprian writeth) who succeeding no man is ordeined of him selfe, not of them who entred by Christ, that is, not of Christ. Hée is a pastor, who entreth in by the doore, & loueth the sheepe: that is (as bLib. 4. cap. 4Irenee writeth) he that hath both succession from the Apostles sent by Christ, and with succession of Bishopricke hath receiued through Gods fauour, the sure and gratious gift of truth. The hireling feedeth the sheepe, vnlesse the wolfe come. For (as Gregorie saith in the place alleaged) it cannot be surely knowne, whether a man be a pastour or an hireling, if time of neede come not, if persecution and triall want. The fourth kind, is the woolfe, at whose coming the hireling fleeth. For he is a woolfe who entred in by the doore, he was ordeined lawfully: but being set in the pastours roome after ward became a woolfe. Such as S. Paule describeth; cAct. 20.19.I doo know (saith he) that after my departure there wil rauening woolues enter in among you, not sparing the flocke, that is, scattering the shéepefold: and of your selues, that is, of the number and order of pastors, (…or such he speaketh to,) there shall arise men speaking peruerse things, to draw away disciples after them selues. Such were Arius, Macedonius, Nestorius, Marcion, Paulus Samosatenus, Eutyches, and many other Arch-heretikes: who of Bishops, and Priestes, that is, of pastors, became woolues. Wherefore of these foure kindes of men, we must louelove the pastor, we must tolerate the hireling, we must beware of the theefe, (dDe verbis … min. Serm. 49. saith Austin:) and I would adde (saith D. Stapleton) we must driue away the woolfe. For the woolfe must be kept off with greater care and diligence, who commeth in the sheepes clothing, and being made a pastor doth play the woolfe, and seduceth: then the theefe who climeth vp an other way, by open wrong and iniurie. For it is inough to beware of him because of lawfull succession, which neuer is vnknowne or lieth hidden, no more then the Church it selfe. Moreouer the hireling is of two sortes. One in respect of his ende, and secret: because he dooth féede for hope of gaine or honour only, but liueth not offensiuely. An other, who is openly wicked and vngodly. The hirelings of the former sort S. Paule describeth: ePhil. 1.15.Some (saith he) preach Christ for enuie and contion, that is, for honours sake: some for good will and of charitie. And what of such he thinketh, he addeth▪ but what? So that by all meanes, whether by occasion, or by truth, Christ bee preached: in this also I reioyce, yea and will reioyce. Now, hée preacheth Christ by occasion, not sincerely, who doth it for his owne commodities of money, or of honour, and the praise of man (as De verbis De…in. Serm. 49.Austin doth expound it:) and of such S. Paule saith, that hee reioyceth. So farre is he from saying, that men ought not to heare them. As for the other sort of hirelinges, that openly are wicked and vngodly: such were the Scribes and Pharises, and yet the scripture saith of them, gMatt. 23.2.The Scribes & the Pharises do sit vponupon the chaire of Moses. All things therefore whatsoeuer they shall say vntounto you, obserue ye, and do ye. But of this I hauehave spoken sufficiently before. And so you may see, that hirelings, whether they be secret, or open, yet they teach the truth, & Christians are bound to heare them.
Rainoldes.
When shall we hauehave the demonstration out of the scripture, by which you promised to proue that Popes can not erre in doctrine?
Hart.
You hauehave it alreadie. What? You can not sée the wood for the trées.
Rainoldes.
In déede I cannot sée that wood amongst these trées. But you who sée it better, will shewe it mee, I hope.
Hart.
Sée you not the wordes of Christ and S. Paule, of pastors, and hirelinges, and theeues, and woolues, and secret hirelings, and open?
Rainoldes.
All these trées I sée, and many shrubbes besides. But I sée no stuffe in any of them all for your demonstration.
Hart.
No? Then will I make it plainer from point to point. First, al the Popes are either pastors or hirelinges. Next, pastors and hirelinges doo all teach the truth. Thirdly, I conclude▪
Rainoldes.
Stay. I doubt of the first: or rather I doubt not of it. For although the auncient Popes (as they are called) were pastors for the most part, and hirelinges now and then some: yet after, there succeeded many theeues and robbers: and so they doo till this day.
Hart.
Marke what you say: [succeeded.] For I graunt that in schismes and contentions about the Popedome, a part of the electors sometimes hath set vp one, who was a theefe and a robber, hCyprian. ep. 4 ad Cornelium.as Nouatian against Cornelius, iHieron. in Chronic. Euseb.and Vrsicinus against Damasus. But he whom so they set vp, was an *Antipapa, one set vp against the Pope.Antipope, as historians do call him, not a Pope. They are Popes, who by the line of orderly succession hauehave folowed one an other from Peter vntill our time: whose names are enrolled both in Chronicles, and Tables, by Pontacus, Onuphrius, Genebrard, Bristow, and many other learned men. And them I meane onelyonly, when I say that all Popes are either pastors, or hirelinges.
Rainoldes.
And them I meane too, when I say that many theeues and robbers hauehave succeeded. Though sometimes the Antipope had better right to the roome, then hee whom your Chronicles and tables count Pope, whose might did ouerbeare the right: kConcil. Basil. Session. 39. Aeneas Siluius de gestis Basil. Concil. lib. 2.as Felix, elected in the Councell of Basill; then Eugenius, who surprised him. But, I let go these blemishes of the Papall line. And of the lawfull Popes, the line of whose succession your lGenebrard. Chronographia, in fine lib. 4.Chronicles and mBristow in his Demaundes and Rishtons Table of the Church praysed and glosed on by him.Tables doo paint and praise so highly, as a certaine marke whereby the Catholike church and faith may be knowne: of them I say, that many hauehave beene theeues & robbers.
Hart.
I proue that in saying so you say vntruely. For they are theeues, and robbers, who enter not in by the doore into the sheepefold, but clime vp an other way. But all the Popes hauehave entred in by the doore into the sheepefold. Therefore not one of them hath béene a theefe and a robber.
Rainoldes.
Into what sheepefold they entred, I know not. But this I know that many of them entred in by that, nCic. ad Attic. lib. 1. epist. 15.which Philip said all castles might be conquered by, if an *Asellus on…stus auro.asse laden therewith might enter in. Is this to enter in by the doore, or by the loouer? oHorat. Carm. lib. 3. ode 16.as Iupiter did to Danae in a shower of gold?
Hart.
You meane them perhaps, of whom you shewed pIn the 1. Diuis. of this chapt.before, that they were monstrous men, or rather beastes and monsters: who did get the Popedome (I graunt) the most of them by briberie and euill meanes. But the fault both of that and of their corrupt liues is to be laid rather on the German Emperours, then on ye Sée of Rome. For (as D. qChronog. lib. 4. saecul… 10.Genebrard hath noted very well) the Popes, for the space almost of seuen score yeares and ten, from Iohn the eight to Leo the ninth, 1Pontifices circiter 50.about a fiftie Popes did reuolt wholy from the vertue of their auncestors, and were 2Apotactici, Apostati…i v… potius, quam Apo…tolici.Apostaticall rather then Apostolicall. Of this so great wickednes the German Emperours are guiltie: who did oppresse the Church so, that (orderly elections being set apart) they appointed Popes at their lust, and 3Saepius pecunia, & pactis.often times for money and couenantes; and the Pope elected would not take the Popedome before the Emperour had confirmed him. Yea some did get into the see 4Vi, aut larg i…o…e.by force or bribery. Wherefote it is no maruell, if they were monstrous and so many in so few yeares, and dyed so quickly, sith that they entred in, 5Non per ostium, sed per posticum.not by the doore, but by a posterne gate. For they were not chosen after the maner of their ancestors, but 6A Caesaribus intrudebantur.intruded by the Emperours. OnelyOnly fiue amongst so great a number of Popes (and they but meanely) are praysed.
Rainoldes.
This is well and wisely noted by your Genebrard. Many Popes were 7Prodigiosi.monstrous: but the faute thereof was in the German Emperours. This will stop the mouthes of the German heretikes, who doo prayse those Emperours. But here you graunt withall, that fiftie Popes or there about did not enter in by the doore. Wherein you graunt (by consequent) that they were theeues and robbers. You saide that I spake vntruly when I saide so. Is it become a truth now?
Hart.
They were theeues and robbers: but they were not Popes.
Rainoldes.
They doo goe for Popes in al your rPlatina, Onuphrius, Pōtaeus.Chronicles, and sBristow, Rishton, Prateolus.Tables.
Hart.
Because they kept the roome, and were called so. The name of Popes is giuen them by D. Genebrard too: but hée accounteth them vsurpers, and so doth meane it improperly. For properly they onelyonly are Popes, who hauehave the Popedome by lawfull succession. But these men had it not by lawfull succession. Therefore they were not Popes, as we must speake of Popes now. And this is declared plainely by D. Chronog. lib. 4. saeculo 11.Genebrard: who hauing saide, that the Popes of that time were 8Monstra, vt intrusi potius quám electi.monsters, as intruded rather by the Emperours then elected; doth adde, these are the fruites of the Church oppressed by tyrants, and of elections taken from it. Yea, 9Turbata hic fuit legitima successio.the lawfull succession was here disordered also: as in *The Church of the Iewes.the Synagogue of olde time vnderunder the Antiochi, a litle before the Machabes. This blemish let the writers of the Centuries acknowledge to hauehave sproong from the German Emperours, whom they praise so greatly. For they had taken the right of the Church to themselues, and did prouide for it by the right of Herode. Thus farre D. Genebrard. Wherby you may sée that although he graunt they were theeues and robbers, yet he denyeth they were Popes: for they did not succéede lawfully.
Rainoldes.
Genebrard was blinded with spite against the Centuries, and Emperours of Germany, when hee sewed these figge-leaues to couer the nakednes of his cause. For the fiftie Popes (let me call them so, that my spéeche may be the plainer,) the fifty Popes, whom you graunt to hauehave bene theeues and robbers, because they were vsurpers rather, then successours, as being not chosen after the maner of their auncestors, but intruded by the Emperours: the fiftie Popes began in the yeare of Christ uAfter Genebrards account. Onuphrus and Platina differ from it somewhat in a few yeares. But that altereth not the point.eight hundred eightie & foure, when Iohn the eighth dyed; and ended in the yeare a thousand fourtie and eight, when Leo the ninth succéeded. Now the Emperours had no more so doo in the Popes election, for the later halfe of that time; then they had before, when Popes were good, (in Genebrards ei…,) and their succession lawful. And for the former halfe thereof; they had lesse. For, about the yeare fiue hundred & fifty, when Iustinian the Emperour had recouered Italie from the Gothes, his enimies, who long had raigned there: xAnast. biblioth. in vit. Vigilij, Pelagij, Vitaliani, Agathonis. Gregor. in Regist. lib. 1. ep. 4. Ioh. Diac. in vit. Gregor. l. 1. c. 40. Platina in Pelagio secund. Dist. …3. c. Aga…ho.it was prouided, yt none should be ordained Pope (though elected) before that his election were confirmed by the Emperour. Which order was taken for ye peace & safetie both of the countrie & the State: least, the Emperours being absent out of Italie, abiding at Constantinople, the Pope (whose autoritie was growen to be great) if he should mislike the State, or be factious, might entise both Rome and Italie to reuolt from them to their enimies, as Iustinian was perswaded that Pope Siluerius sought to doo. This order continued vntill the yeare sixe hundred eightie and sixe: about the which time yAnastas. in vita Benedicti secund.the Emperour released the Pope from that bond. But afterwarde the Pope did binde himselfe againe vntounto it. For in the yeare seuen hundred seuentie and thrée, zSigibert. in Chronic. Dist. 63. c. Adrianus. 2Pope Adrian the first gaue to Charles the greate, the 1Ius & potestatem eligendi pontificem, & ordinandi Apostolicam sede….right and autoritie of choosing the Pope and ordering the Sée of Rome: and he gaue it with consent of a Councell of Bishops, not of his owne fansie. The decreee of which Councell did stand in strength and vertue aboue a hundred yeares, vntill the time of the fiftie Popes. For in the yeare eight hundred eightie and fiue, aPla…ina in Adrian. tert. Sigon. de regn. Ital. l. 5. & 7.Pope Adrian the third made a contrarie decree: to wéete, that 2Ne in creando pontifice Imperatoris autoritas expectaretur. vtque libera essent cleri & populi suffragia.in creating of Popes they should not waite for the consent of the Emperour, but the voices of the clergie and people should bée frée. Neither had any Emperour that prerogatiue after, till the yeare nine hundred sixtie and thrée, when it was restored againe vntounto Otho. Now in the meane time the monsters came in, bIn the yeare of Christ 892.Formosus, c898.Boniface, d898.Stephen, e899.Romanus, f899.Theodore, g899.Iohn the ninth, h…04.Christopher, i905.Sergius, and finally that monster of monsters k955.Iohn the twelfth. Of whom there was not one appointed by the Emperour. And yet (to sée the spirite of a Popish zeale how it wil… besotte men,) lChronog. lib. 4. saeculo 10.Genebrard, hauing writen that Sergius did imprison his predecessor Christopher and commanded the bodie of Formosus to be digged out of his graue and beheaded, doth adde this note vponupon it: No maruell if these Popes were monstrous; for they were not chosen after the maner of their ancestors, but intruded by the Emperours. Whereas mOnuph. in Chron. Rom. Pont. Sigon. de …egno Ital. lib. 6.your Chronicles shew that Sergius conspiring against his predecessour Christopher (as Christopher had conspired against his predecessor Leo) did force him to renounce the Popedome on one day, & himselfe *Post…idi….the next day did stall him…elfe in it. So that not asmuch as the presence of the Emperours embassadours was stayed for at his consecration, (which yet nConcil. Rauen. in the yere 898. Sigon de reg. It. lib. 6.by order should hauehave béene, to hinder violence and offenses:) mu…h lesse was he intruded (as Genebrard saith) by the Emperour. But when Iohn the twelfth had gotten the roome, then the which there could not a wretcheder thing possesse it, vnlesse the diuell himselfe should hold it in person: oLuitprand. Ticin. lib. 6. cap. 6.10. & 11. Sigibert. in Chron.the Emperour Otho being earnestly sued too by the Romans to set the Church in better order, caused the Bishops of Italie with others, and the Roman clergie, to be assembled in a Councell. Wherein after that they had deposed Iohn, and chosen Leo the eigth, all, with one consent: pDisti…t. …3. c. in Synodo.Pope Leo, with the whole clergie, and people of Rome, did graunt vntounto Otho and his successours for euer, 3Facultatem eligendi successorem, atque suminae sedis Apostolae pontificem ordinandi.the power of choosing the Pope. The cause which moued him to stablish this order, was, that no such monsters might sit in Peters seate as there had before. qSigon. de regn. Ital. lib. 7.For, he considered, that since the time that Adrian the third had taken away that power from the Emperours, and left it to the people and clergie: the foule and inordinate ambition of the Romans had filled the Church with beasts, the citie with tumults, and the elections with vilanie. He saw that this outrage must be repressed some way. He thought no bridle fitter, then that the decrée of Adrian the first, who gaue the right of choosing the Pope to the Emperour, should be reuiued. And so he proposed the matter to the Councell: and the Councell agréed vponupon it. Wherefore the former halfe of the fifty monsters were not intruded by the Emperours. If the later were: whose was the faute? the Emperours? or the Popes and Councels, who gaue the Emperour that right? But in déed they were not. For, rLuitprand. l. 6. c 6. Sigibert. in Chron.although the Romans had sworne to Otho that they would neuer choose Pope without his consent, and his sonnes: yet sSigon. de reg…. Ital. lib. 7.by and by they turned to their olde bent, like a deceitfull bow. Howbeit in his dayes they could not hauehave their purpose. For when they cast out Leo, and brought in Iohn againe, and chose one after him too: 1Otho the first.Otho by force of armes made them repent it, and redressed it. But in 2Otho the second.his sonnes dayes they went thorough with it. 3Otho the third.His nephew had a stroak in the choise of one or two: but they were of the better sorte. It was the Romans choise that thrust the monsters in. Of whom we may estéeme what the rest were by their head, and taile; Boniface, and Benedict. tPlatina de vit. Pont. in Bonifac. sept. Sigon de regno Ital. lib. 7. in the yeare 974.Boniface the seuenth, who came in by briberie, was cast out by violence, went away with sacrilege, made money of his Church-robberies, and therewith got againe the Popedome. uPlat. Bened. non. Sigon. lib. 8. in the yeare 1046.Benedict the ninth, who when he was throwne out for his vnworthinesse, and Siuester placed in his stéede; he, by helpe of the faction which had made him Pope, threw Siluester out againe: and fearing that mens stomakes would not brooke him long (they did so loth him and abhorre him) hee set the Popedome to sale, and Gregorie the sixth bought it. These dealinges of Gregorie, Siluester, and Benedict, *Tria …aete trima monst…a.thrée most vgly monsters (as they are called by xIn Gregor. sext.Platina) stirred vp the Emperour Henrie the second to looke vntounto the Church, as Otho had done. Whereupon, when he was come into Italie, yOtho Fri… gens. Chron. lib. 6. cap. 32.Pope Gregorie went vntounto him: and offered him a pretious diademe to winne his fauour. But he neuertheles assembled togither a Councell of Bishops: zSigo…. lib. 8.who hauing examined the cause of Pope Gregorie, & found that mony made him Pope, iudged him vnlawfully made, & so he was depriued for Simonie. Then, in consultation about a new Pope, when the Romanes themselues did not name any, ye Emperour named a German, Suidiger, a Bishop commended for his skil & vertue: who being approued by them all was chosen Pope, & called Clemens. By whom & by an other Councell held at Rome ye same power was giuen to Henrie againe for ordering of ye Popedome, yt was before to Otho. So neither did the Emperors intrude ye later monsters of the fiftie Popes: no more then the former. For there is but aNamely Damasus the second: whom Onaphrius calleth optim…m Pontificem, reprouing them who write otherwise of him. Annotat. in Platin. Clement. secund.one of the fiftie after Clemens, and he none of the monsters; (though Genebrard make him one, because the Emperour chose him:) nor had the Romanes néeded to hauehave béene troubled with him, but that Clemens the German tooke some bHe was poysoned. Krantz. Saxon. l. 4. c. 41. Genebr. Chron. l. …. in the yeare 1047.Italian drugs amongst them. Nay, the Emperours were so farre from intruding of monsters: that they did extrude them, and were the chiefest meanes to ridde the Church of them. Which as it is euident by the whole course of their liues and stories so Carolus Sigonius in his cHistor. de regno Italiae lib. 8.storie of Italie (no partiall man against the Popes) doth beare the Emperours this witnesse, and layeth the blame of those monsters vponupon the Romanes themselues. 1Romani pro…ere…, priuatae qu…erend…e po…nti… causa.The noble men (saith he) of Rome, to aduaunce their owne priuate power, corrupted them to whom the Popes election belonged: and thereby filled the Church (almost two hundred yeares togither) with grieuous seditions, and shamefull euils, and disorders. These were the Marques Albert, and Alberike, his sonne, a Consull, the Earles of Thusculum▪ & they who were of their kinne, or by their meanes had grown to wealth. Who, either bribing the people and clergie with money, or spoiling them of the auncient libertie of the election by whatsoeuer other meanes, Amicos aut pr…pinquo… suos pro ar…itrio prouexerunt.preferred at their lust their kinsmen, or frendes, men commonly nothing like to the former Popes in holines and good order. For the repressing of whose outrage, Pope Leo the eighth reuiued the law, which had beene made by Adrian the first, and repealed by the third: that no Pope elected should vndertake the Popedome without the Emperours consent. Which law being taken away by occasion that the roome was sought ambitiously in the citie, and purchased by bribes▪ the state of the Church was put againe in great daunger 3Priuatis Earundem factionum studiis.through the priuate lusts of the same factions. To prouide therefore a remedie for these things, Henrie the Emperour came into Italie: as hereupon Sigonius sheweth. And so you may sée the lewdnes of Genebrard, that shamelesse parasite of the Popes who without all reuerence both of God and man, doth raile, lye, and falsifie stories, to deface the Emperours, and crosse the writers of the Centuries. For he saith, that the Emperours dGenebr. Chronogr. lib. 4. saeculo 9.did, as wilde boares, eate vp the vineyard of the Lord: the stories say, that they deliuered it from wilde boares. The stories say, that the monsters of the Popes were chosen by the Romanes them selues: esaeculo 10. & 11.he saith, that they came in by intrusion of the Emperours. The stories say, that the Emperours, who hunted out those beastes, were vertuous and lawfull Princes: he calleth fsaeculo 11.them tyrants; nor onelyonly them, but also gsaeculo 16.many good Emperours moe, who medled with the Popes election. Finally, the stories say, that the Emperours were allowed by Popes and Councels to doo it: he saith hsaeculo 11.that they vsurped it by the right of Herode. And yet him selfe recordeth, and that in the same Chronicle too, that iLib. 3. saeculo 8.Pope Adrian with a Councell, kLib. 4. saeculo 10.Pope Leo with a Councell, lsaeculo 11.Pope Clemens with a Councell, did graunt it vntounto Charles, Otho, and Henrie the Emperours. I hauehave read of an enuious man, who was content to lose one of his owne eies, that an other might lose both. Genebrard is gone farther. For he is content to put out both his owne eies, that the writers of the Centuries may put out one of theirs. That they may *Hanc labem Centuriatores agnoscanta Germa…is Imp…. exortam▪ qu…s la…dant …topere.acknowledge them selues to hauehave praysed the German Emperours vniustly: hee graunteth both that Popes with Councels hauehave erred, and that their succession wa… broken off a great while. Wherein if you say the same with him, M. Hart: I am glad of it. But your felowes (I feare me) will not allow that you say, if you allow that he saith.
Hart.
No body saith that the succession of Popes was broken off: nor that the Popes may erre and Councels. For as Genebrard taketh it, Leo the eighth and Clemens the second were not Popes.
Rainoldes.
But Adrian the first was, as Genebrard taketh it, and that one of the best Popes. Yet he did graunt as much to Charles the Emperour, as Leo did to Otho, as Clemens did to Henrie. And if it be true that they were not Popes, whom yet the Roman clergy with many Bishops chose: then the Popes succession, which is almost the onelyonly eye of your Cyclops, will be cleane put out by the deuise of this *foreign. Homer. Odyss. lib. 9.No-body. And how shall the writings of our Countriemen, mVisib. Monarch. lib. 7.Sanders, & nMoti…. 22. & Demand. 43.Bristow and oTable of the Church.Rishton, and such others do then? who make the Popes succession ye chiefest bulwarke of your Church, a certaine marke that neuer faileth? And what will pGenebr. chronogr. lib. 3. in princip.No-body him selfe say to the third booke of his Chronicle: where he wrote that 1Petri successionem ad saecu…orum extremum d…taturam.Peters succession shall endure in the Church of Rome vntill the end of the world? Was this true when he wrote the third booke? and was it false when he wrote the fourth?
Hart.
D. Genebrard (whom you shal proue to be some-body ere you hauehave done, though you be flouting him with No-body,) doth shew by the one place his meaning in the other. For sith he wrote that Peters succession shall endure in the Church of Rome vntill the end of the world: it is plaine he meant not that it was broken of at any time absolutely, and simply. Wherefore, in that he addeth about the fiftie Popes, Lib. 4. saec. 11.that 2Turbata hic …uit legitim… successio.the lawful succession was disordered then: he meant that it was broken but in some sort, as it were; or (to say the truth) rather brused, then broken; not interrupted, but disturbed. For neither Genebrard saith, nor any Catholike writer els, but that the succession of Popes hath continued, and shall vntounto the end.
Rainoldes.
Then I mistooke his meaning, touching the succession; and yours, touching the Popes. For I thought that you had denied that they were Popes, who were theeues and robbers. Now I perceiue you meant not absolutely, and simply, that they were not Popes; but that they were not Popes after a kind of sort: they were crackt Popes, as you would say, and not sound; or perhaps (in truth) rather crased, then crackt. Yet the reason which you brought why they were not Popes, doth stand in force against them still. For it is true, as you said, that they did not succeede lawfully. Wherefore, either lawfull succession is not necessarie vntounto your succession: or the crased Popes were no Popes at al. They did succéede Simon, but Act. ….1…Simon the sorcerer, and not Simon Peter. Howbeit you must count them Simon Peters successours for your successions sake. Else you spoile your Church of her gayest ornament, through which ye vnskilfull are most enamored of her. Beside that neither would it helpe your cause a whit in tryall of the issue. For sithence the Pope hath ouermaistred the Emperours, and thrust from his election, first them, then the people, afterward the clergie; & sIn ye yeare of Christ 1180. Concil. Lateran. sub Alexandro ter. cap. 1.brought it to a few Cardinals: there hauehave bene as monstrous Popes as were before, (still I except *Pope Iohn the twelfth: of whom in the 1. Diuis. of this chapt.Iohn,) and hauehave come in as vnlawfully.
Hart.
There were many tumultes and schismes in the Church, chiefely through the Emperours meanes, before that the matter could be brought about to that perfection and ripenes which it is now at. But things began to mend from that time of disorder. For by the vertue of Leo the ninth, and the Popes folowing, that vsurpation was taken from the Emperor Henrie the fourth, although with great sturres. And so was the Sée Apostolike of Rome restored to her auncient brightnes and beauty. Whereof our owne daies hauehave séene the proofe and triall in many good Popes, elected lawfully, no doubt: Pius the fourth, Pius the fifth, and him who raigneth now, Gregorie the thirtéenth, a most louing father of the Churches children.
Rainoldes.
Whether that these Popes, or other, hauehave béene good; and their elections lawfull: it is not the question. Perhaps you praise them for affection: perhaps they hauehave béene good, as Popes. For Popes in our daies are praysed for their goodnes, when they surpasse not the wickednes of other men: as a tGuicciardia. histor. Ital. l. 16.good historian, who knew and loued them well, doth note in 1Who was Pope in the yeare 1533.Clemens the seuenth. 2Pope in Queene Maries daies. 1555.Marcellus the second dyed the two and twentéeth day of his Popedome not without suspicion of poyson, (saith your Genebrard,) *Quod nimium rectus quibusdam futurus videretur. Gene…brard. Chronogr. lib. 4.because some men thought that he would be to good. Pius the fourth, Pius the fifth, and Gregorie the thirtéenth hauehave held the Popedome longer. If they were good Popes: I trust they were not too good. As for their electious: the daies are yet too young to sée the faithfull stories of them. But, if they were chosen as their predecessours, according to the custome of the Church of Rome: then by ye elections of uGuicciard. histor. Ital. l. 6.Pius the third, xlib. 6. & 10.Iulius the second, ylib. 11.Leo the tenth, zlib. 15.Clemens the seuenth, and Cardinall aIn M. Foxc… English ecclesiast. historie.Woolseis letters suing to succéede Clemens, wise men may coniecture▪ how lawfully they were chosen. You say that there were many tumultes, and schismes, chiefly through the Emperours meanes, before the Popes election could bee wrested from them, and brought to the Cardinals: but after that time, thinges began to mende. In déede they hauehave mended, as sower ale doth in summer. For of bO…uphr. in Chronic. Rom. …out.thirtie schismes in the Church of Rome (so many as no Church can boast of besides▪) the worst and the longest hath béene sith that time, euen *Schisma omnium pessimum, & diuturnius in ecclesia Rom. xxix. quod quinquaginta annos perdurauit.the nine and twentieth: which lasted by the space of fiftie yeares together, first, with two Popes at once; then, with three. And, if the Emperour Sigismund had not béene, cAntonin. hist. part. 3. tit. 22. c. 6. Paul. Aemil. de reb. gest. Francor. l. 10.through whose meanes the Councell of Constance was assembled, and the three remoued: by this time your Church might hauehave had as many Popes, as (in dReuel. 17.3.the Reuelation) the scarlet coloured beast hath heads. But to leaue the Emperours, and proue the point in question, that since the Popes were chosen onelyonly by the Cardinals there hauehave béene as monstrous Popes as were before, and hauehave come in as vnlawfully: there are so many examples, that it is hard to make choise, or know where to beginne amongst them. Let him be the first, who compiled 1The sixth booke of the Decretals.part of the canon law, and 2In the common Extrauagants c. vnam sanctam tit. de maiorit. & obedient.that lusty decretall of the Popes supremacy, euen Boniface ye eighth. Who being inflamed with desire of the Popedome, ePlatin. in Caelestino quint.induced Pope Caelestin, a simple man to resigne it; whether fBlond. decad. 2. lib. 9.by perswading him, that hee was not able to wéelde a charge so weighty, or gPlatin. in Bonifac. octau. Genebrard. Chronog. lib. 4.by procuring some to sound vntounto him in the night a voice as it were from heauen, that, if he would be saued he must resigne the Popedom, or by both these practises, but he induced him to resigne it: and hAntonin. hist. part. 3. tit. 20. c. 8not looking to be called by God, as was Aaron, he got it to him selfe by vnorderly meanes, iPlatin. in Bonifac. octau.all that ambition could deuise. Neither did he gouerne it better, then he got it. For being a man of intolerable pride, and thirsting after gold vnspeakeably, he bore himselfe as kMartin. Polon. in supput. Pont. in append.Lorde of spirituall thinges and temporall throughout the whole world. lGaguin. hist. Francor. lib. 7. Platin. in Bonifac. octau.He tooke vponupon him at his lust to giuegive and take away kingdomes; to banish men, and to restore them: and sought to bréede terrour rather then religion in the mindes of Emperours, of Kinges, of Princes, of peoples and of nations. mTritem▪ in Chron. monast. Hir….He was the 3In the yeare of Christ 1300.first autour of your yeare of Iubilee, 4c. Antiquorū. extra. De poenit. & remissionib.proclaiming full remission ofsinnes, to all them, who came in pilgrimage to Rome, (a great gaine nAntonin. hist.. part. 3. tit. 20. c. 8.to him and his:) and oKran…z. Sax… lib. 8. cap. 36.at that Iubilee he shewed himselfe in his solemnities, one day attired like a Pope, an other like an Emperour, and hauing a naked sworde before him, he sate and saide with loude voyce, Beholde the two swordes here. qPlatin. in Caelestin. qui…t.He cast his predecessour Caelestine into prison, and brought him there vntounto his graue. qBlond. decad. 2. lib. 9. Platinan Bonifac. octan.He vexed the countrie of Italie with warres, and nourished discords amongst them. r…ho. Walsin. hist. Angl. in Edward p…im.He saide that both the land and persons of the Scottes 3Pe…t… …bant su… ca…llae, that is, to the C…rch of Romes right, as afterwarde the … expounded it.belonged to his Chappell, that vnderunder that pretense hée might trouble England, and cite king Edward to his iudgement. sAl…e…. Kr…tz. Saxon l. 8 c. 3….He refused to accept of Albert chosen Emperour by the Princes of Germany, because they made choise without his authoritie, who had (he said him selfe) the right ofboth swordes. tG…gian. hi…. Francor. lib. 7.Hee depriued the French king of his kingdome vponupon displeasure; u…al…i…gam in Edw…r. prim.and moued the king of England to make warre against him; xKran…z. Saxon l. 8. c. 3…. & 37. Metrop. l. 8. c. 48.and graunted to Albert that he should be Emperour, on condition that he would take the realme of Fraunce also, and thrust the lawfull king out of it. And more he would hauehave done of such Papall affaires, yTritem. in Chron. Monast. Hi…aug. Platin. in Bonifac. octa.vnlesse the French king to tame his pride had tooke him prisoner: whereupon he dyed within a few dayes for griefe. This is that Boniface, ofwhom zWalsingam in Edward. prim. Marius de schism. & concil. part. 2. c. 18. Genebrard. Chronogr. lib. 4.the saying goeth: He entred like a foxe, he raigned like a lyon, hee dyed like a dogge. An other like to him, but in an other kinde, is aWhom Platina calleth the four… & twentieth: Onuphrius, the two and twentieth.Iohn the three and twentéeth. bPlatin. in Iohanne vige…im… quart.Who got (while he was Cardinall) a great deale of mony, and finding the Cardinals somewhat poore and néedy gaue them gentle rewardes. Whereupon they, seing him to be a liberall man, made him Pope for it. But that liberalitie was his chiefest vertue. For, he was cOnuphr. in Platinae append.fitter for the campe, then for the Church; for profane thinges, then for the seruice of god; as knowing no faith nor religion at all: dConcil. Constantiense lession. 11. art. 6. & caet. & session. 12.an oppressour of ye poore, a persecuter of iustice, a mainteiner of the wicked, a sanctuarie of Simonie, an ofscouring of vices, giuen wholy to sleepe & to fleshly lustes, wholy contrarie to the life and maners of Christ, a mirror of vnhonest and infamous behauiour, & a deuiser, a profound deuiser of all vilanies: in a worde, so lewde and wretched a caitife, that amongst them who knew his conuersation he was called commonly *Diabolus incarnatus.a diuell incarnate. Yet these most holie Lordes Boniface and Iohn, are nothing in comparison of Alexander the sixth. For, although they both did get the triple crowne corruptly: yet they conueyed it closely. Alexander the sixth eGuicciardin. hist. Ital. lib. 1.did buy the voyces of many Cardinals 1Palesamente.openly, partly 2Co…danari.with money, partly 3Con promesse de gl…usticii, & beneficii …, che…erano …plissi…i.with promises of his offices and liuinges, chiefely the voyce of Cardinall Ascanio: for which hee did couenant to giuegive the chiefest office of the Court of Rome, and Churches, and castles, and a palace full of moueable goods of marueilous great value. According vntounto which beginning he went forwarde: and proued (as it was thought he would) most pernicious to Italie and all Christendome. For though hee excelled in sharpenes of wit, in iudgement, in eloquence, and was verie carefull and quicke in matters of importance: yet hee passed farre these vertues with his vices, maners most beastly, not sinceritie, not modestie, not truth, not faith, not religion, couetousnes vnsatiable, vnmeasurable ambition, cruelty more then barbarous, & a most feruent desire of aduancing (by whatsoeuer means) 4That is to say, his bastards. Onuphrius in Alexandr. sext. Vola…erran. Anthropolog. l. 22.his children, of whom he had many, and amongst them 5The Duke of Valence, Caesar Borgia, who first was Cardinall of Valence, and killed his elder brother the Duke of Candi… to hauehave his …oome. Guicciard. lib. 3. Onuphr. in Alexand. sext.one (that to execute lewde deuises there might not want lewde instruments) no lesse abhominable in any point then his father. Such a serpent held the seate of S. Peter for the space of ten yeares, vntill his owne venoome killed him. For fGuicciard. hist. Ital. lib. 6.when he & his sonne and heire, the Duke of Ualence, had purposed to poyson 6The Cardinall of Corne…o.a Cardinall whom they were to suppe with, (as commonly they vsed not onelyonly their enimies, but also their 7Both other Courtiers and Cardinals: as the Cardinall of S. Angelo, the Cardinall of C…pua, & the Cardinall of …odana.friendes, yea neerest friendes which had riches, that themselues might bee enriched with their spoiles:) the Duke had sent thither flagons of wine poysoned, by a seruant whom hee made not priuie to the matter, vut willed him to giuegive them no man. The Pope comming into the Cardinals before supper time, the weather being hote, he thirstie, called for wine. Now, because his owne prouision for supper was not come from the palace yet, the seruant of the Duke gaue him of that wine, which he thought his mai…ter had willed to be kept for himselfe as the best. Whereof while he was drinking, his sonne, the Duke came in: and thinking the wine to bee his fathers owne, he dranke of it too. So the Pope was caried sodenly for dead home to the palace: and the next day hee was caried dead (after the maner of the Popes) into S. Peters Church: blacke, swollen, and ougly: most manifest signes of poyson. All Rome did runne togither to his dead carkasse with wonderfull ioy: no man being able to satisfie his eyes with beholding a ser…ent dispatched and quelled, that had poysoned all the world with his outragious ambition, and pestilent treacherie, and with all examples of horrible crueltie, of monstrous lust, and of incredible couetousnesse in selling without difference things holy and profane.
Hart.
I skill not greatly of these stories: and it may …e douted whether they be true. For men are prone commonly to thinke and speake euill: specia…ly of such as are of high calling. Howbeit, if they be true: what is that to vsus? The Popes may erre in maners, we graunt, but not in doctrine. Neither if a man be naught in conuersation, is therefore his religion naught. Iudas an Apostle, Nicolas a Deacon; gMatt. 26.47.the one betrayed Christ, hReu. 2.15.the other bredde the Nicolaitans: both fa…tie in their liues; but the Christian faith, which they professed is not fautie. There be, that write also reportes verie shamefull of your Doctors and Pastors: iBolsecus, in vita Caluini.of Caluin, that he committed a detestable sinne; kLindanus, Dubitant. dialog. 2.of Bucer, that he denyed Christ at his death. Which thinges are as odious, as those that you reherse of this or that Pope. But if I should vrge them, you would reiect them as impertinent.