Answer to the Proud Challenge of a Counterset Catholic, Answer · Answer · Article 16
The 16. article conteyneth one demande, and one chalenge.
Furthermore name any one man that is confeſſed on both ſides by the iudgement of the world, to be holy and learned, & a member of the true Church, in what age ſoeuer you liſt ſence Chriſtes time, and proue him to hauehave bene in all articles of Faith of the Proteſtants meaninge.
SEeing you geue ſo large ſcope, I will name S. Paule, who I thinke is cōfeſſed on both ſides to be holy and learned, and a member of the true Church, whome I can proue by his writinges, that in all articles of faith, he taught the ſame, which we beleeue. And for triall of this, becauſe it woulde requier a whole volume, if I ſhoulde proue eueryevery particular article, wherein we diſſent from you Papiſtes: If you will name an article, wherein we agree not with S. Paule, If I be not able to proue that we agree with him in the meaninge thereof, I will reuoke that article and agree with you therein.
Yea if I bring not the aduerſaries them ſelues to acknowledge in the ende him to be wholy againſt their doctrine in diuers of articles of great importance, and therefore that he coulde not be of their church, I recant.
YOu ſhall neuer bring vsus, neither in the beginning, nor in the end to acknowledged that S. Paule is againſt vsus in any article of our Faith, but we agree wholy with him. Neuertheleſſe I know what you meane, & will not be afraide to vtter. Foraſmuch as immediatly after the Apoſtles time, corruption entred into the Church, which was hardly kept out, while they liued: as we maye learne by the Epiſtle to the Corinthians, you thinke that we dare not depende vponupon any one mans iudgement: and therein you are not deceiued: for we muſt depende onelyonly vppon Gods worde. But where you ſaye there is none but he diſſenteth from vsus in diuers articles of great importance, you ſaye vntruely: for you are not able to proue that Iuſtinus Martyr, or Irenaeus, two of the moſt ancient authenticall writers, that the Church next vntounto the Apoſtles had, are againſt vsus, in any point of doctrine wherein we differ from you? Yet are there certaine errors in them, which neither you, nor we allow, as is touched before in the anſwere to the 11. article 1. deman. But they are both wholly againſt you in diuers articles of your doctrine, and namely in tranſubſtantiatiō, which is one of the greateſt articles of Poperie: as Irenaeus, in the 34. cap. of his 4. booke Contrahaereſes: Quemadmodum enim qui eſt a terra panis &c. Euen as the breade which is of the earth after it hath receyued the inuocation of God, is not now common breade, but the Euchariſtie, or (breade of thankes geuing) conſiſting of two thinges earthly & heauenly, ſo our bodies receyuing the Euchariſtie, are not now corruptible, hauing hope of reſurrection. Here you ſee plainely, that Irenaeus affirmeth the ſacrament, after conſecration to conſiſt of the earthly ſubſtance of breade: which maye better be vnderſtoode, when we know that he reaſoneth againſt ſuch heretikes as denied the world to be made by God, ſaying that he woulde neuer hauehave made ſo great a myſterie of bread, which is a creature of the world, if the worlde had not bene made by him. Iuſtinus, in his ſecond Apologie to the Emperour. foreign &c. We doe not receiue theſe thinges as common breade and a common cuppe but euen as Ieſus Chriſt our Sauiour was incarnate by the worde of God and tooke vponupon him fleſh and bloude for our ſaluation: So we are taught that this meate for which thankes is geuen by the worde of prayer from him of which our fleſhe and bloude are nouriſhed by tranſmutation, is the fleſhe and bloude of Ieſus that was incarnate. Here, he plainely affirmeth that the ſubſtance of the Sacrament is turned into the nouriſhment of our bodies. Therfore it remaineth ſtill after the conſecration. The other writers of later yeares, as they hauehave ſome errors which neither you nor we doe allow in them, ſo we are not afraid to confeſſe that they hauehave ſome corruption, wherby you may ſeeme to hauehave colour of defence for inuocation of Sainctes, prayer for the dead, and diuerſe ſuperſtitious and ſuperfluous ceremonies, yet not ſo addict to theſe, nor ioyned with ſuch abſurdities as yours are. But for the chiefe pointes of Chriſtian Religion, and the foundation of our faith, that is, for the honour of God, the offices of Chriſt, Redemption, Iuſtification, Satisfaction, the fruites of Chriſt his paſſion, Grace, faith, workes, authoritie of God his word, authoritie of the Pope, reall preſence, tranſubſtantiation, Communion in both kindes, Images, &c. the moſt approued writers Tertullian, Cyprian, Origen, Epiphanius, Hilarius, Chryſoſtomus, Ieronymus, Ambroſius, Auguſtinus, &c. are vtterly againſt you, and therfore can not be of your church. But for as much as they hold the foundation, that is Chriſt, though they hauehave diuerſe errors & ſuperſtitions, they were doubtles, the members of the true Church of Chriſt, which becauſe you are not able to diſproue, reaſon would you ſhould recant.