Two Treatises Against the Papists, Book 2 · Chapter 17
An aunsvvere to their negatiue argument, vvith the Conclusion of the booke. CAP. XVII.
1 BVt yet one common engine they hauehave, as well for the impugnation of the trueth in this point, as for the sore shaking of the weake walles of the simples faith, allmost in all their fight that they kepe against the Catholikes. VVhichWhich, though it be not stronge, yet it is a marueillous fit reasoning for so fonde a faith. For if thou caste an earnest eye vponupon their whole doctrine, thou shalt finde that it principally, and in a maner wholy consistithe,Their nevv no faith is vpholden by a negatiue argument. in taking awaye or wasting an other faith that it founde before: so that the preachers thereof, must euer be destroyers, pluckers downe, and rooters vp of the trueth grounded before.
VVill you see then, what a Protestants faith and doctrine is? deny onelyonly and make a negation of some one article of our belefe, and that is a forme of his faith, which is lightely negatiue. There is no free will,A Protestāts Crede. there is no workes needefull to saluation, there is no Church knowen, there is no chiefe gouernour therof, there be not seuen sacraments, they doe not conferre gratiam, geue grace. Baptisme is not necessary to saluation, Christ is not present on the aultar, there is no sacrifice, there is no priesthood, there is no aultar, there is no profit in prayers to sainctes, or for the deade, there is no purgatory, Christ went not downe to hell, there is no limbus, finally if you liste goe forwarde in your negatiue faith, there is no hell, there is no heauen, there is no God. Doe you not see here a trimme faith and a substantiall? looke in Caluins Institutions and you shall finde the whole frame of this wasting faith. There is nothing in that blasphemous booke, nor in their Apologies, but a gathered bodie of this no faith. For so it must needes be that teacheth no trueth, but plucketh vp that trueth which before was planted. Is it not a prety doctrine that Caluine makes of the sacraments, when he telleth not the force of any of them all, but onelyonly standeth like a fearce monstruous swhine, rooting vp our fathers faith therein?
CAP. XVII.
1 IT vexeth you at the very hart, that we require the authority of the holy Scriptures, to confirme your doctrine hauing a playne commaundement out of ye word of God, that if any man teach otherwise then the word of God alloweth, he is to be accursed. And therfore you runne to a childish kinde of Sophistry to say that our argument is negatiue. A perlous point that almost all the Papistes thinke them selues more then Chrisippus, or Aristoteles, when they tell vsus that our argument is ab auctoritate negatiuè. Alacke poore logicke. All knowledge that christian men hauehave of heauenly thinges, is grounded vponupon the authority of Gods word, therefore as it is no good logicke to conclude negatiuely of one place or booke of Scripture, this is not conteined in it, therefore it is not true: so of the whole doctrine of God, wherein all truth necessary to saluation is conteyned, the argument is most inuincible that concludeth negatiuely thus. All true doctrine is taught in the Scripture, purgatory is not taught in the Scripture, therefore purgatory is no true doctrine. And this conclusion M. Allen him selfe made of mans authoritie, cap. 13. purgatory and prayers for the dead were not preached against, at their first entry, ergo they are true. But of all mens authoritie it is false, wheras he sayth we are ouerthrowers & destroyers, we confesse we are so, of all false doctrine and heresie. For the word of God is appoynted not only to teach truth, but also to ouerthrow error, not onelyonly to build faith but to destroy falshood. But it is a proper cōceit wherin he pleaseth him self, as other of his sect do, to tel vsus that all our faith standeth vponupon negatiues. I could frame the Papists as holsome a creede all vpō affirmatiues if they wil receiue it. This is more then boyish babling. All trueth is to be affirmed, all falshood to be denyed. Therefore it is not to be loked what is affirmatiue and what negatiue, but what is true or false that is affirmed or denyed. But to runne through the articles of that creede, which he hath framed for vsus, we truely beleue that man after his fall hath not free will, no not aptnes of will, to thinke any thing that is good. 2. Cor. 3. we beleue truely, that a man is not iustified by workes, but by faith onelyonly. Rom. 3. And yet we beleue that good workes are necessary to be in eueryevery man that is iustified. Iac. 2. we beleue that the Church is not alwayes knowne to the wicked vponupon earth, neither the vniuersall Church seene at all of men, because it is in heauen, Gal. 4. we beleue that the catholicke Church hath no chiefe gouerner vppon earth but Christ vntounto whom all power is giuen in heauen & earth Matth. 28. we beleue there are but 2. Sacraments of the new testament, baptisme and the Lordes supper instituted by Christ, 1. Cor. 10. we beleue that they geue not grace of the worke wrought but after the faith of the receiuer, and according to the election of God. 1. Cor. 10. Baptisme is necessary for all Christians to receiue, that are not by necessitie excluded from it. 1. Pet. 3. Christ is present at his Supper, but not after a grosse and caparnaiticall maner, but as he was present in Manna to the fathers. 1. Cor. 10. There is no sacrifice propitiatory for our sinnes, but onelyonly the sacrifice of Christes death once offered for all. Heb. 10. There is no priesthood to offer sacrifice propitiatory but only the priesthood of Christ according to the order of Melchizedech Heb. 7. The spirituall priesthood is common to all Christian men and women. 1. Pet. 1. we hauehave an altar of which it is not lawfull for them to eate, which serue the tabernacle, and other beside we hauehave none. Heb. 13. we call not vponupon Sainctes, because we beleue not in them, for how shoulde we call vponupon them, in whome we beleue not? Rom. 10. There is no prayer for the deade nor purgatory after this life, because they that liue vntounto Christ dye vntounto him and being dissolued are with him. Ioan. 17. Christ descended into hell to redeeme vsus out of hell, by suffering the wrath of God for our sinnes Heb. 5. There is no Lymbus, for the fathers were at rest with God, where they are now: whether we call the place Abrahams bosome, or paradise, or heauen Luke. 16. and 23. 2. Cor. 12. The rest which you adde, maye be the beginning of the Popish creede, which you maye as you list continue negatiuely or affirmatiuely after this maner. God a lone knoweth not the heartes of all men. God onelyonly is not to be worshipped and serued, for Sainctes hauehave both the one and the other. God onelyonly is not true, for the Pope can not erre. Christ is not our onelyonly mediator and aduocate, for Marie and the Sainctes are also. Christes death is not a sufficient redemption for vsus, for we must satisfie for our selues. Christes death hath not taken away both our sinnes and the punishment of them, but the Popes padon maye. Christ is not onelyonly our high priest according to the order of Melchizedech, for eueryevery hedge priest is of the same order. Christ hath not made them that are sanctified perfect by a sacrifice once offered for all. For y• greatest part is lefte to the masse. Our sinnes are not freely forgeuen vsus by Christ, for we must satisfie for them. A man is not iustified by fayth without the workes of the lawe, for eueryevery man must merite for him selfe. The scriptures are not sufficient to teach vsus all trueth, but we must hauehave vnwritten verities. The worde of God is not of soueraine authoritie, for the decrees of the Pope and generall councells be equall with it. This is the Papistes creede both in the affirmatiue and in the negatiue. But in that you exhort the Papistes to reade Caluins institution, and there to see whether he teacheth any truth therein: I woulde to God that all Papistes in Englande woulde followe your counsell & pray vnfaynedly that God would open there eyes, that they may see his trueth if it be taught in that booke.
2 This negatiue faith hath no grounde nor confidence of thinges to be hoped for, nor any certaintie of such thinges as doe not yet appeare, but it is an euident ouerthrowe of all our hope, and a very canker of the expectation of thinges to come. This faith therefore of these pluckers downe, must needes vse a conuenient instrument to destroye, and not to builde: to plucke vp and not to plante, to improue and not to make proofe. But what way is that?Like faith like argument. mary by way of negatiue proofe, they confirme their negatiue and no faith. Purgatory, say they, nor prayers for the deade be not so much as once named in all the scripture, ergo there is neither of them to be beleued. VVhichWhich forme of argument serued the Arians against the consubstātiall vnitie of God the father, & his sonne our Sauiour. It helped the Anabaptistes against the baptisme of infantes, it was profitable to Heluidius against the perpetuall virginitie of Gods mother: and it helpeth all pluckers downe, but it neuer serueth a buylder. The vanity whereof is so well knowen, that I will not stande to talke thereof: namely, seeing it hath no place in our cause, for which we hauehave brought diuers scriptures, all construed by most learned fathers for that sense: and some so euident, that they droue our aduersaries to the open deniall of the holy canonicall scripture.
2 What grounde or confidence of thinges not seene and yet hoped for our fayth hath, it is not for infidells to iudge, no more then for blinde men to iudge of collours. And as for our negatiue argument, it is stronger then your affirmatiue error can abide: & there of groweth the spight. But when as you saye we frame our argument, of the name of purgatory onelyonly or prayers for the deade, you followe your customable course of lying and sclaundering. And yet we maye saye it is a greate preiudice against your purgatory and prayer, which you make so necessary, and about which no small parte of your religion is occupyed, that it is not so much as once named in the scriptures. But we saye, and truely saye, that neither the name nor the thinge it selfe, is taught or can be proued by ye scriptures, & so of all other heresies. All trueth maye be proued by scripture, either in plaine wordes, or by necessary conclusion, which is all one. And therefore the Arians, or Anabaptistes hauehave no more helpe of this argument then you Papistes. As for the perpetuall virginitie of the mother of Christ, as we can thinke it is true, so because the scripture hath not reueled it, neither perteineth it vntounto vsus, we make no question of it. what scriptures you hauehave alleaged, and howe falsely you slaunder vsus, for denying the canonicall scripture is set forth at large allready.
3 But yet one of these ouerthrowers frameth (as he supposeth) his negatiue argument,M. Grindall in his funerall sermon. to the more sure shake of our faith herein, after this sorte. In the olde lawe, all sacrificies and expiations both appointed and reckoned euen for the smallest offensies that man coulde commit, yet there was neuer no sacrifice for the purgation of the dead…. How Lorde like Maister Grindall made his Argument here? VVhere he shoulde plainely hauehave inferred the contrarie after this sorte. There was no sinne so small vnpardoned, but there was some sacrifice of release or expiation thereof in the olde lawe, ergo if any man were bounde with sinne, were it neuer so small, whether he were aliue or deade, there was some appointed purgation therefore. For there is no consequence nor any apparance of right deductiō, to inferre vponupon the naming or rehearsall of all sinnes, the peculiar mentioning or plaine rehersall of such persons as maye be burdened with those sinnes. There were sacrificies then in the olde lawe for wemen as well as men, for the Princies no lesse then for the poore, for the priest & for the people, for the deade as well as for the liue. And where there was no difference nor respect of persons, in that point there was no peculiar mention to be made, for the distinction of states. The peculiar rehersall therefore, was onelyonly made for the diuersity of offensies, and not alwayes for the difference of persons. And nowe the departed in faith being but distincted by state of life, and not by bonde of sinne from those that be aliue, must needes in the case of like sinne, for the vnitie which he is in, hauehave the like remedie as the lieue hath for the same sinne. And therefore to helpe your ignorance some thing, thus you must learne:Note. that there was no peculiar sacrifice for the deade, as though they were not of the common body with the liuing, but they had the same sacrifice done for them that the liuing in this worlde in the like case of sinne, or punishment for offensies, had. Doe you not see Gods Church, Maister Grindall, sacrifice for the deade? but not for them by a peculiar meanes of offeringe,One sacrifice for the liue and the deade. but the very selfe same oblation she euer vseth for her Children departed, that she practiseth for her faithfull flocke a liue. And in all other practises, there is a perfect communitie of all benefites betwixt the deceased and their brethern remayning yet in this worlde. And therefore when you seeke for sacrifice in the olde lawe, looke not for any distincte waye of handeling their offensies, which is not common with the lyuing. But consider what there was practised for the release of the smaller trespassies, and that was vsed for both the liue and dead, without distinction. Marke what sacrifice was for the abating of any paine due for great offensies, and the same shall be well vnderstande, to be with out difference practised, for the liue and deade together. That therby we may by good reason conclude, seeing sacrifice was then offered for purgation of eueryevery light offense, that it was done for all states of persons that were either in this life, or after their death to be perfectely clensed from the same. Although the facte of Iudas Machabeus be a plaine proofe that there was a common knowen ordre of sacrifice: for else howe coulde he hauehave conceyued any such sacrifice neuer hearde of before? howe coulde he limite the value of procurement therof, by a certaine summe for eueryevery soule deceased? howe coulde he gather in pretence of a thinge neuer vsed before, the peoples almes with out their murmure or motion therein? VVhy woulde he hauehave sent mony to Hierusalem to procure that, which had no example in the lawe, or vse in the Church? was he so ignorant that he knew not their ordre herein, or so vnwise to hauehave sent his mony for nothing?Lib. 2. de Orig. Animae Cap. 11. S. Augustine aunswering an heretike, that by the authoritie of the facte of Iudas, woulde hauehave proued, that by sacrifice men might be saued though they died vnbaptized, or in deadly sinne, sayth vntounto him: that he is not hable to proue, that Iudas or any other in the lawe, offered for his freinde, or any man else being vncircumcised, no more then the Church nowe practiseth for any man not baptised. VVhereby he plainely confesseth, that the lawe had a sacrifice for the deade: which, being vrged by that heretike, he might hauehave denied with good helpe of his cause, and aunswere to the aduersary: but that the contrary case was so cleare, not onelyonly by that booke which he tooke for Canonicall scripture, as before is proued, but also by the full consent of all the Church of God, which both by plaine practise, and most graue ordinaunce, had from Christes time set forth and approued the vndoubted trueth thereof.
3 To passe ouer your saucines and scurrilitie being as agreeable to your profession and leuitie, as vnmeete for his grauitie and dignitie whom you name, the argument is of more force then you hauehave wit to vnderstand. But to beate it smaller, that it may enter into your head, or at least wise that they which hauehave any brayne in their heades, may conceiue the strength of it, I will vse your owne figure and mode. All lawfull sacrifices were prescribed by the lawe, sacrifice for the deade was not prescribed by the law, therfore it was no lawfull sacrifice. you aunswere that the rehersal of sinnes proueth not the peculiar persons that may be burdened with those sinnes. And with this foolish distinction you thinke you hauehave broken out of prison. But you that so like a proud foole, take vponupon you to help his ignorance, bewray your owne intollerable arrogancie and more then beastly blindnes. For if you had redde the law whereof you make your selfe such a Rabbine, Leuit. 4. & 5.12. & 15. you should hauehave seene the peculiar mentioning and playne rehersing of all such persons for whome sacrifice was to be offered, both men and women, the Princes and the priuate persons the Priest and the whole congregation, yea and speciall regard of the oblations of the poore. And in the perticular rehearsing of diuerse kind of persons, and the forme of the sacrifice, named according to eueryevery perticular state, it is so farre of, that the deade shall be reckned that such thinges are enioyned eueryevery of these perticular persons to doe, as it is playne that none but the liuing could offer, or hauehave sacrifice offered for thē. What law was appoynted touching lamenting for the deade, you may reade Leuit. 21. how the Priest was forbidden to lament for any, but speciall persons, also Nu. 19. diuerse ordinances concerning the deade yet neuer any sacrifice or prayer for the deade. When Nadab and Abihu were slayne, their father and brethren were forbidden to mourne for them, the people were permitted. By all which it appeareth, not only that no sacrifice for the deade, was offered, but that they were so separated from the liuing, that the Priestes might hauehave nothing to do with any of them, but in speciall cases. And as for your common shift of the common body of the liuing and the deade, helpeth you nothing, for although all the faithfull make one body in Christ, yet there is one state of them that worke, an other of them that are iudged according to their works, & to put no diuersitie betwene them, is not to make a communion but a confusion. But of all other it is a clerkely cō clusion that you send M. Grindall to looke vponupon the example of your masse, whith is a sacrifice both for the quicke & the deade, and thereof will proue that the olde lawe, had but one sacrifice for the liue and the deade. In deede there you were to good for him, if ye practise of ye popish church be a good president for Moyses to follow in his law, we will reason no longer. But the fact of Iudas Machabaeus putteth all out of doubt. Surely then the fact of eueryevery man that transgressed the lawe, shall be sufficient to proue what the lawe was and not the booke of the lawe. For else how coulde he hauehave conceiued any sacrifice which he neuer hearde of? How did Dauid conceiue the cariage of the arke in a newe cart, which he neuer heard of? except it were of the Philistians that sent home the arke in a cart. And euen so it is like, that Iudas Machabaeus, if he deuised not that sacrifice of his owne head, yet tooke it by imitation of the Gentiles, whose studies and practises, your owne author confesseth were more frequented in those dayes among the Iewes, then the preaching or keeping of the law. Finally to all the other howes and whyes, I aunswere with one word, he had no warrant of his fact in the law of God. Neither doth S. Augustine sufficiently answere ye heretike that would proue by that fact, that men dying in deadly sinne might be saued by sacrifice. For though they were not vncircumcised for whom Iudas sent an offering, yet they dyed in deadly sinne, and such sinne, as for which they were iustly slayne, as your owne author confesseth, for the idolatrous iewells, that they had eueryevery one in their bosomes. Concerning the authoritie of that booke and how it was taken by Augustine, I hauehave aunswered enough before.
4 But here will I nowe make an ende, desiring thee (gentle reader) with such indifferency to weighe the doing and dealing of both parties, as the importaunce of the cause, the louelove of truth,The cōclusion of the vvhole boke, vvith an admonition to the reader. the necessary care of thine owne saluation, and thy duety towardes God and his Church requireth. There is none of all those pointes, which the vnfaithfull contention of our miserable age hath made doubtefull, in which thou mayest better beholde howe vpright the wayes of trueth and vertue be, and howe pernicious, double, and deceitfull, the dealing of heresie is. The one is vpholden by the euidēt testimony of holy scripture, the other mainteineth her traine by bolde deniall of scriptures: the one seeketh with humility the meaning at their mouthes, whome God hath vndoubtedly blessed with the gifte of vnderstanding and interpretation, the other by singular pride foundeth her vnfaithfulnesse, vponupon the phantasies of light and lewde persons, that are pufte too and fro with eueryevery blaste of doctrine. The one resteth vponupon the practise of all nations, the vsage of all ages, and the holy workes both of God and man, the other holdeth wholy by contempte of our elders, flatery of the present dayes and vnhappy waste of all workes of vertue, religion, and deuotion: the one followeth the gouernours and appointed pastours of our soules, whose names be blessed in heauen and earth, the other ioyneth to such, as for other horrible heresies & wicked life, are condemned both a liue and deade, of the vertuous, and can not for shame be named of their owne scholars. The one hath the warraunt of Gods whole Church, the other standeth on curse and excommunication by the grauest authority that euer was vnderunder God in earth. To be shorte, trueth is the Churches dearlinge, heresie must hauehave her maintenaunce abrode. This one, holy, Catholike, and Apostolike Church is it, wherevnto we owe all duety and obedience both by Gods commaundement, and by the bonde of our first faith and profession. There is no force of argument, no probability of reason, no subtelty of witte, no deepe compasse of wordely wisedome, no eloquence of man, nor Angell, nor any other motion that can be wrought in the world, that shoulde make a man doubte of any article approued by her authority. And if thou yet feare to geue ouer thy whole sense, and thine owne selfe to so carefull a mother, in whome thou wast begotten in thy better birth, compare our Church with theirs, compare her authority and theirs, her maiesty and theirs.
4 In Gods name let the readers waye indifferently, the doinges and dealinges on both partes, the cause, the trueth, their saluation, the Church, and the glory of God aboue all thinges. And as they see this pointe handeled, so let them iudge of the reste. The trueth is vpholden by euident testimony of scripture, the error, by custome, practise, and iudgement of men. The trueth seeketh vnderstanding of the scriptures, of the spirite of God in the scriptures, error at the mouthes of mortall men. The trueth resteth vponupon the onelyonly authority of God, error vponupon the maintenaunce of carnall deuises. The trueth is founded vponupon the doctrine of the Prophets and Apostles, the other vponupon Gentiles and heretikes. Trueth is embraced of the pure and primitiue Church of Christ, error is continued from a corrupt state of the Church of Christ, vntounto a plaine departing awaye into the church of Antichrist. To be short, trueth is tryed by the worde of God, heresie by the inuention of men. The holy Catholicke and Apostolicke Church is that which humbly obeyeth the word of God, and the Synagoge of Satan is that which arrogantly challengeth authoritie aboue the worde. The true Church shall neuer decaye but alwaye reigne with Christ, the false Synagoge shall daily more and more decaye vntill it be vtterly destroyed with Antichrist the heade therof, and last of all be damned with the deuill and his angells. And who so woulde make choyse of a true mother Church, from a whorish Synagoge, let him compare our church with the church of Rome, the authoritie of our church which is the authoritie of God in his word, with the authoritie of theirs which is the opinions of men, the maiesty and glory of our church which is spirituall, & the whorish outward brauery of theirs which is carnall. And where he findeth the true church, let him know that in the communion therof, he receiued his second birth, and not of the place, time, person, or element, where, when, by whome, or with which he was baptised, either among them or among vsus.
5 Ours is that Church, that hath borne downe hethen Princies, that hath destroyed Idolatrie, that hath cōuerted all nations to Christes faith, that hath waded in bloude, that hath liued in welth, that hath bene assalted by hell, by euill life, by heresie, and yet she stādeth. Take away all this, compare her constancy in doctrine, with their inconstant mutability: compare the noble army of Martyrs, the holy company of Confessours, the glorious trayne of so many blessed, wise, and learned Doctours, of many thousand Saintes that euer accōpany her maiesty: compare (I say) all these with the raskall souldiars of the contrary campe:Math. 24. Vbicunque fuerit corpus, illic congregabūtur & aquailae. I warraunt thee, gentle reader, feare nothing, for where so euer so honorable a personage is, there is the kingly company of egles. Beholde her grace of miracles, her workes, and her wonders, her authority in discipline, her wisedome in gouernement, her equability in all estates: and I am sure thou shalt confesse Quod dominus est in loco isto, & ego nesciebam. Our Lorde suerly is in this place,Gene. 28. and I was not aware thereof. For Christes louelove, if thou hast followed, or yet hauehave any phantasie to the seuered company, grope with out flatery of thy selfe, the depth of thine owne conscience: feele whether God hath not suffered thee to fall for some sinne. Come into this Church, and at the same time thou shalt be healed to thy eternall reioysing. Touch once the hemme of Christes garment, adore his foutstoole, cleaue vntounto the altar, and if thou finde not comfort of conscience, ease of harte, and light of trueth, neuer credet me more. Proue once what is In horto concluso, Cantic. 4.& fonte signato, in the garden enclosed, & the wellspring so surely sealed vp. Ioyne with the Sainctes in heauen, with the soules in Purgatory, with the fathers of thy faith in earth, with all holy