Two Treatises Against the Papists, Article rebutted 24 – Article rebutted 25
The 24. article conteyneth 10. demandes.
1 Moreouer let any man shew how that Church can be the piller of truth, which durst not for a thousand yeares clayme either preaching of Gods word or ministring of Sacramēts or shew her selfe against falshood or superstition.
AS the number of your articles doth draw to an ende, so your matter is farre spent, and therefore to make vppe your number, you must repete one thing twise. This demaund is conteined before in the 11. and 12. articles, where also it is fully aunswered. Notwithstanding, seeing it commeth againe it shal be briefly aunswered in this place. The Church is not called the piller of truth, because it should stand alwayes in the sight of the world: for then the defection, which S. Paule speaketh of, could not hauehave come, neither should the Church flie into the wildernes, as was declared to S. Iohn: But it is called the piller of truth, because that where so euer the Church is, either visible or inuisible, there is the truth. So though the Church were hidde a certeyne time in the wildernes, yet there was trueth with the Church. You seeme to be a good Arithmetrician: for no number soundeth in your mouth but a thousand. Neuerthelesse how long so euer it was, the piller of truth decayed not, And as God gaue his spirite, diuers times was bold to chalenge preaching and ministring of the Sacraments, yea, and so boldly, that it cost many of the chalengers their liues. As Berengarius, Bruno, Marsilus de Pandua, Ioannes de Gaudano, Ioannes VVickleffe, VValdo, Ioannes Hus, Ieronymus de Praga, &c. Thus it is manifest that the Church hath diuers tymes chalenged her right, and withstood falshood.
2 Let any man shew that all giftes of the spirite, and functions of the holy Ghost hauehave bene taken from her, a thousand yeares togither, and onelyonly practised to the peoples vse by an aduouterous Church.
THere is no man can shew this: for it is a false lye, that all giftes of the spirite, & function of the holy Ghost were either taken from the true Church, or giuen to the adulterous church. And this hath bene shewed more then once or twise before.
3 Let it be declared, how the gates of hell hauehave not preuailed, or Christes promise and warrant for her, not bene voyd & frustrate, if a bastard Church exercising idolatry, as they say, hath spoyled the true Church of all holy actions, and the whole gouernment, and the whole name of Christianitie, almost euer since Christes tyme.
THe Deuill hath bent all his force and ordinance, he hath armed all the power of darkenesse, he stirred vp …yrantes, heretikes, Popes, Saracenes, and Turkes to destroye the Church, the dragon, that olde serpent Satanas, the Deuill, stoode before the woman to deuoure her childe, he persecuted her into the wildernesse, he cast out of his mouthe, a great riuer to cary her awaie, he made warre with the rest of her seede that keepe the commaundementes of God. Apoc. 12. but yet in despight of the deuill, the Pope, and all her enemies, she is to this day preserued, and shalbe to the worldes end: Therefore the gates of Hell, hauehave not preuailed against her, nor the promise of Christ hath failed. And whereas you say, that your bastard church hath spoiled her of all holy actions, gouernment, and Christian name, it is a most impudent lye, as it is true, that you sawe a bastard church vsurped her holy name, counterfaicted her holy actions, and turned her gouernment into tyrannie.
4 Let me see therefore howe the onelyonly dearling and spouse of Christ shoulde be neglected of him so long.
SHe hath not bene neglected of him, but felt his continuall aide, he hath geuen her safe deliuerance of her childe, & taken it vp from the crueltie of the Dragon, he hath prouided her a place in the wildernesse, he hath made warre with the Dragon for her sake, and driuen him out of heauen, he hath geuen her Eagles wings to flie into the wildernesse, he hath caused the earth, to swallow vp the water that shoulde hauehave caried her awaie, he hath geuen the remnant of her seede, Victorie ouer the Dragon. Finally, his mercifull protection and louing care ouer her, hath neuer more notably appeared than that against so many daungers and enemies all this while he hath preserued her, vntill such time as he hath thought good, now to bring her out of her secret place in the wildernesse, into the open sight of the worlde againe.
5 Let the aduersarie shew that the Church shoulde euer by superstition and falshood commit adultery or be deuorc… from him.
THe true church, consisting of God his elect, and the liuely members of the bodie of Christ, shall neuer commit such adultery that she shalbe diuorced from him. But the visible church, by Idolatrie and superstition may separate her selfe from Christ, and be refused of him, as God speaketh by Esay to the church of Ierusalem cap. 1. How is the faithfull Citie become an harlot? It was full of iudgement, and iustice lodged therein, but now they are murtherers. Thy siluer is become drosse, and thy wine is mixed with water. Thy Princes are rebellious and companions of theeues &c. euen so maye he say to the church of Rome: how is that faithfull church become an harlot, true Faith and Religion hauehave dwelled in her, but now Idolatrie and superstition: thy siluer is turned into drosse, and thy wine is mixed with water, thou hast nothing pure and vncorrupted, thy Princes be rebellious Antichristes &c. Thus I hauehave shewed that the visible church, may become an adulteresse, and be deuorced from Christ.
6 Or that Christ should euer want his spouse in earth.
THis hath bene often aunswered before, Christ hath neuer wanted his spouse in earth, though the blinde world can not alwayes see her, or when they see her, will not acknowledge her to be his spouse, but persecute her, as if she were an adulteresse.
7 Or that he shoulde be a heade either without a bodie.
THese are but one thing in diuers phrases, as he hath neuer wanted his spouse in earth, so hath he neuer bene an heade without a bodie, and seeing these wordes in this sence are relatiues (for Christ is called a heade in respect of the Church which is his body, and the Church is called a bodie, in respect of Christ that is her heade) I aunswere you by a rule of the Logicians: No man knoweth a relatiue, except he know the correlatiue thereof, Therefore, though Christ had a bodie in earth, yet coulde it be knowen of none, but such as knewe Christ the heade of that bodie. Of whome, when the Papistes were ignorant, specially when they appointed an other heade in earth, it is no marueill, if they could not see the bodie of Christ, though he hauehave neuer bene without it.
8 Or such an vnknowne and small bodie.
THis hath bene answered immediatly before, it sufficeth that it be knowne to Christ the head. As he sayeth: My sheepe heare my voyce and I know them. Iohn 10. And to them that be of the members of the same body. As for the rest, it is not necessary that they should alwayes see it, which will neuer acknowledge it. Neither is it so smal, as it is thought of, it is dispersed in many places ouer all the worlde, and yet fewe in comparison of the malignant church, whose number is as the sand of the sea, &c. Apoc. 20.
9 Or that Christes only kingdom should become so cōtemptible.
NOthing else is to be looked for of the worlde, but hatred and contempt, as Christ him selfe sayth: You shall be hated of all men for my names sake. Matth. 10. & S. Paule biddeth vsus looke on our calling, not many wise men, according to the flesh, not many mighty men, & not many noble men: but God hath chosen the foolish thinges of this world to confound the wise, and the weake of this worlde to confounde the stronge. 1. Cor. 1. And what hath the true church to boast in but in the Crosse of Christ. Gal. 6. than the which, nothing is more shamefull, contemptible or reprochefull to the wisedome of this worlde: what knowledge or preaching hath the true church but Iesus Christ crucified, which to the Iewes is an offence and to the Greekes foolishnesse, but to them that be called, both Iewes and Greekes it is the power and wisedome of God to euerlasting saluation. 1. Cor. 1. Rom. 1. So that as the church in the sight of God and his Sainctes is most glorious and honorable, so in the sight of the worlde it hath alwayes bene most base and contemptible.
10 Or that his spouse in earth shoulde euer lacke the singular prerogatiues of Gods spirite, shewe me these thinges, and I recant.
THis also hath ben declared before in the second demande of this Article. There be certeine singular prerogatiues, which are not continually with God his Church: as the gift of tongues, the gift of prophesie, the gift of healinges &c. but there be other prerogatiues of God his spirit, that are necessary for the saluation of God his elect, as the gift of vnderstanding, the gift of Faith, the spirit of adoption, &c. and these the spou…e of Christ hath neuer wanted. Wherefore if you wilbe partaker of those benefits which are receiued in the church of Christ, you must forsake your Romish religion, and recant.
The 25. article hath 2. demandes.
1 Shew me that the Church, which ought to be a Christian mans staye, in all troubles and tempestes of doctrine might become so hidde or so close that no man coulde finde her.
THe reader must not be offended with me for any tedious repetition of mine aunsweres, seeing you geue the occasion, by propounding your demandes so often. This demande hath a false principle: that the church ought to be a Christian mans onelyonly staie in all troubles and tempestes of doctrine: for when soeuer any such tempestes doe arise, there is as great question and doubt of the Church, as there is controuersie of the doctrine: for as eueryevery heretike chalengeth vntounto him selfe the trueth of opinions, so also doth he chalenge the possession of the church, so that the church is alwayes in as great question as the doctrine. And then is it to be sought out and tried onelyonly by the scriptures, as we hauehave declared at large in the aunswere to the 4. Article, 2. demande. Secondly whereas you demande: whether she coulde be so hidde or close that no man coulde finde her, because I hauehave aunswered to this demande fower or fiue times already, I will now aunswere in one worde: Although she was bidden and close from the worlde, yet was she knowen to them that were her children.
2 Or so harteles that she coulde succour no man nor instruct any man in his doubt of conscience or distresse of Faith, proue me that there maye be such a decay of Gods spirite, trueth, and Church, and I recant.
THe Church hath neuer bene afraide to do her office towardes her children and true members, in teaching, …xhorting, comforting, confirming, &c. neither hath the spirite of God failed to leade her into all trueth, and Christ hath bene with her euer more, and shalbe to the worldes end. But that the spirite of God, truth, and the Church of Christ, shoulde departe from the greatest numbre of the worlde, is proued by S. Paule, 2. Thess. 2. and by the Reuelation of S. Iohn. Apoc. 12. Therfore if the spirite of trueth did leade you, you shoulde recant.