Rejoinder to Bristows Reply, Part 2 · Book 7 · Chapter 4
CAP. IIII.
Sander.
Master Iewel hath not replied well, touching the sixt Chapiter of Saint Iohn, but hath abused as well the Gospell, as diuerse authorities of the fathers.
Harding.
The promise of giuing the flesh which Christ would giuegive for life of the worlde, beeing onelyonly perfourmed in the supper, prooueth the very same substance to be in the Sacrament of the supper, which was offered vponupon the crosse, for the life of the world.
Iewel.
Master Harding supposeth no man to eate the flesh of Christ, but onelyonly in the Sacrament.
Sander.
He denieth not, but that Christes flesh may be eaten spiritually, both by faith and by baptisme, but not really, saue onelyonly in the supper.
Fulke.
If Christ speak there onelyonly of his gift in the supper, then all are void of life eternall that receiue not the supper: Except ye eate, &c.
Iewel.
The wordes bee plaine and generall, vnlesse ye eate the flesh of the sonne of man, yee shall hauehave no life in you.
Sander
He saith, ye shall not hauehave life in you.
Fulke.
A diuersity without a difference.
Sander.
He meaneth of him who hauing discretion, to prooue himselfe, refuseth to receiue the Sacrament of Christes supper.
Fulke.
This is a glosse of your owne discretion, and not the meaning of Christes wordes, who denieth life to all them, that are not fedde with his flesh and bloud.
Iewel.
Seeing Christian children receiue not the Sacrament, by Master Hading it will followe, they hauehave no life.
Sander.
It will followe they hauehave not in themselues, the flesh of life, as Cyrillus …aith, in their bodies, but it is an vntrue sequel, to say, they hauehave no life at all: for they hauehave spirituall life in baptisme.
Fulke.
They could hauehave no life in baptisme, if they were not fedde with the flesh and bloud of Christ, without which, there is no life at all▪ whatsoeuer it please Sander to glosse.
Iewel.
S. Ambrose saith, Christ giueth this bread to all men daily, and at all times.
Sander.
He may meane of the gift which is in spirite, or which is daily ready in the Sacrament.
Fulke.
He doth meane, that the breade is not giuen onelyonly in the Sacrament, which is not giuen to all men, nor at all times.
Iewel.
S. Augustine saith: They eate Christes body not onelyonly in the Sacrament, but also in very deede. Behold not onelyonly in the Sacrament.
Sander.
S. Augustine speaketh of the mysticall body, which is the company of the elect, and the holy Church of God, not of the naturall bodye, which sitteth at the right hand of God.
Fulke.
Augustine saith, qui ergo est, &c. He then that is in the vnitie of his body, that is in the couiunction of Christian members (the Sacrament of which body, the faithful communicating are accustomed to receiue from the altar) he is to be said truely to eate ye body of Christ and to drinke the bloud of Christ. De ciui. Dei. li. 21. Cap. 25. In the same Chapiter he apposeth, Sacramento tenus & reuera manducare corpus Christi, to eate the body of Christ as far as the Sacrament, and to eate the body of Christ in very deede. Ergo they that eate the Sacrament onelyonly, eate not the body of Christ in very deede. Therefore Christs gift is not onelyonly in the Sacrament.
Iewel.
The fathers of the old law, receiued the selfe same body, that is now receiued of the faithfull. Aug. de vtil. p…n. Cap. 1.
Sander.
Augustine saieth, the selfe same spirituall meate, that is Christ by faith, but not the same corporall meate, which is the body of Christ, Tract. 11. in Ioan.
Fulke.
Augustine saith not, that the body of Christ is our corporall meat, but that which answereth in proportion to Manna, as a corporal meat, namely bread and wine. Tract. 26.
Sander.
But Tract. 11. he saith, Quid est Manna? what it Manna? I am, saith Christ, the liuing breade that came downe from heauen.
Fulke.
It followeth immediately, Manna accipiunt fideles, the faithfull receiue Manna: therefore hee meaneth not Manna in this place for the corporall meate, but for the bodye of Christe, whiche is spirituall meate.
Sander.
But he sayeth further: It is knowen what God had rained from heauen. And knowe not the Catechumeni what Christians take? Let them blush because they knowe not. Let them passe ouer by the redde sea. Let them eate Manna, that euen as they hauehave beleeued in the name of Iesus, so Iesus may commit him selfe to them. Therefore, Iesus is eaten bodily of vsus after baptisme.
Fulke
I denye the argument, except Manna be Iesus bodily. If Manna be spiritually taken, then Iesus is eaten in the Sacrament as he was in Manna, which Sander confesseth to be onelyonly spiritually.
Sander.
But Catechumeni might so eate Christ, that is spiritually.
Fulke.
They might not eate Christ in the Sacrament, before they were baptized, and therfore they were ignorant of that mysterie.
Iewell.
EueryEvery faithfull man is made partaker of the body and bloud of Christ in baptisme, whiles he findeth that vnitie which is signified by the Sacrament: Therefore, the faithfull eate Christes bodie otherwise then in the Sacrament. Apud Bedam, 1. Cor. 10.
Sander.
They are not partakers really, but onelyonly in the Sacrament of the supper, in which, if the body were not really present, hee that is baptized, shoulde not at all be partaker of the Sacrament of Christes supper, because hee is not partaker of bread and wine, but onelyonly is made a member of that mysticall bodie, which in the Sacrament is signified.
Fulke.
Beda knewe no such distinction of really & spiritually. Neither doeth he saye, they are partakers of the Sacrament of the supper, but of the bodie and bloud of Christ in baptisme: wherefore I knowe not whereof Sander dreameth.
Sander.
Augustine saith of heretikes and schismatikes, de ciuit. Dei, lib. 21. Cap. 25. They are not in that bonde of peace which is expressed in that sacrament. The bond of peace expressed, is not the wheaten cornes molded in one loaf, but the bodie of Christ present really vnderunder the formes of bread and wine.
Fulke.
Alack poore sophistrie. Christ is the bonde of peace, but the bonde of peace is expressed in the externall Sacrament of breade and wine. Although the wheaten cornes are not the bonde of peace expressed, yet the bonde of peace is expressed by the wheaten cornes, &c.
Sander.
Looke in my 5. booke, Cap 5.
Fulke.
Looke there for an answere.