Rejoinder to Bristows Reply, Part 1 · Chapter 9 · Section 7
7 Of Purgatorie, of the Canonicall memento, of oblations, & Bristowe.of sacrifice for the dead practised by the Church.
Bristowe chargeth me to vse the arguments from Fulke.mens authoritie negatiuely, which I my selfe confesse to be naught, but he mistaketh the matter: I saide the order of prayers and administration of the holie mysteries, described by Iustinus, and Tertullian, doe sufficiently declare what was the vsage of the Christians in those purer times, in which no mention beeing made of oblations and sacrifice for the deade, it is certaine, there was none vsed, not onelyonly because there is no mention, but because those two olde Fathers in their Apologies, declare whatsoeuer was done in their assemblies. As for oblations for the dead, that Tertullian speaketh of, cannot be proued to hauehave beene vsed at the communion, but rather at the buriall of the dead. But Arnobius (saith Bristow) about the very same time, as a witnes to the contrarie, complayning that the connenticle houses of the Christians, were pulled downe by the Paganes, in which God is prayed vntounto, peace, & pardon is asked, for al men, for the Magistrates, for friends, for enemies, for the liuing and for the dead. Such a saying there is in Arnobius, Lib. 4. Con. gra. I confesse, but how proueth Bristowe, that he was about the time of Iustinus, or Tertullian, when he confesseth it was 300, yeares since Christians were named, Lib. 1? and vnderunder Dioclesian he florished, saieth Hierome, which was sixe or seuen score yeres after Tertullian, the later of the two who florished vnderunder Seuerus.
The olde liturgie of the Greeke Church in Epiphanius time, had a memorie of the dead, but seeing it was an oblation for the Patriarches, Prophetes, Apostles, &c. in the first institution thereof, it could be but an offering of thankes giuing, although Epiphanius expounded it after the errour of this time, to be a prayer for the sinner, & a separation of Christ from the order of men. This is the effect of that I saide. Bristowe saith, I am deceiued, by thinking it is but one memorie, whereof Epiphanius speaketh, and sendeth me to the countefeit liturgies of Saint Iames, Chrysostome, and Basil, which were written long after their age, according as well to ye error of the time, in which they were writtē, as in some expressing the name of the Emperour, and Bishop, in whose time they were written. Also he sendeth me to diuers places of S. Augustine, but which I knowe not, for the place Encherid C. 110. & Dulci. q. 4. are of one sacrifice offered for all baptized persons that are departed, which he saith for the very good are thankesgiuing, for them that were not very ill asking of merciemercy, for the verie ill no helpe, but a comfort of the liuing. Chrysostome also speaketh of a generall memorie of all that were departed, instituted by ye Apostles Ad Philip. hom. 3. in which if there had bene an expresse forme of prayer for ye dead, he needed not of that memorie, to hauehave proued prayer to be profitable to the dead. The place of Origen he mangleth, euen as his Maister Allen doth, but he more vsually, suffering no sentence of any writer almost to be read together, without preiudice of his interlacing. In Iob lib 3. The former men did celebrate the day of their birth, louing but one life, and not hoping for any other after this. But now doe we not celebrate the day of natiuitie, seeing it is the entrance of sorowes & tēptations, but we celebrate ye day of death, as yt which is ye putting away of al sorowes, & the escaping of al tēptations. We celebrate ye day of death, because they doe not die that seeme to die. Therfore also do we make memories of ye Saints, & deuoutly kepe the memories of our parents or friends, dying in the faith, as much reioycing in their rest, as desiring also for our selues a godly finishing in faith. So therfore we do not celebrate ye day of natiuitie, because they which die shall liue perpetually. And thus we celebrate it, calling together the deuoute men with the Priestes, the faithfull with the Cleargie, inuiting also the needie and poore, filling the fatherlesse and widowes with foode, that our festiuitie may be done in remembrance of the rest, which is vntounto the soules departed, whose memorie we celebrate, and may be made of vsus a sauour of sweetenesse in the sight of the eternal God. First concerning my translation, Bristowe will hauehave Religiosos to signifie Monkes, as though none were deuout, but they, or as though the Church in Origens time, were so full of Monkes, as it was afterward. Secondly he saith, that death is a putting away of the sorowes of this life only, where Origen saith of all, and it were small cause of reioysing, to put off the small sorrowes of this life, if men should enter the horrible torments of Purgatorie. Againe, the rest of the dead, he will hauehave to be onelyonly of their bodies. That were a poore refrigerium, if their soules should frie in Purgatorie. The sauour of sweetenesse he wil not hauehave to be a sacrifice of thankesgiuing, but a worke meritorious, as though it was a worke meritorious, that Noe offered cleane beastes after the floode, when the text saith, the Lorde smelled a sweete sauour, Gen. 8. and not rather a sacrifice of thankesgiuing for his deliueraunce. The like ignorance (he saith) I shewe, to thinke that memorie for one, cannot be a prayer for him. As S. Paule to the Colloss. Remember my giues: and to the Hebrues, Remember them that are in giues, &c. But where did I say so ignorantly, that prayer may not be ioyned with remembrance? For I trust Bristow is not so brutish, to say that all memorie is a prayer. But how skilfull is he, to compare the memorie of imprisonment, which is an admonition to pray for the imprisoned, with the memorie of rest which beeing obteined, what should we pray for? As for the wordes in S. Iames his Masse, which was written by some Sir Iames, many hundreth yeares after Origens death, I cannot be persuaded that Origen should allude vntounto them.
Where Cyprian saith, that Victor deserued not to be named at the altar in the prayer of the priests, I shewed by diuerse good reasons, that he meaneth not of prayer for him, but such as was of thankesgiuing for the dead, and for the like godly departure of the faithfull liuing. For his offence in making a Clarke executor, was not to be punished with eternall torments, wherto Bristow answereth by telling of three things done in their Masse, which he saith were done in Cyprians time, but that is the matter in controuersie. my reasons alledged Pur. 284. he toucheth not at all.
I noted Pur. 259. that Allen had falsified 2. Councells at once, the Councell of Carthage the 4, Cap. 95. & the Councell of Vase, which speaking of such executors as defrauded the Church of the oblations of the deade, which they had bequeathed to the vse of the poore: Allen saith to excommunicate them, that hinder the oblations for the deade. Now commeth Bristowe and saith, it is but meere cauelling to distinguish oblations of the deade, & oblations for the deade, because Cyprian saith, there should be no offering for Victor. I hauehave shewed, Pur. 284. that this offering was but a thankesgiuing, and this discipline was not to cutt him from the Church, but an admonition to other. As for the other Councells of Toledo 11. Bracharense, with this of Carthage and Vase, I hauehave answered Pur. 426. against which, Bristowe here saith nothing, but repeateth them with his vsuall interlardings.
The Councell Bracharense, which I twise promised to shewe forth against Purgatory, when I came to it, Bristow saith, I plainly confesse the contrary, to wit a memory for the deade. I said that for them that kill them selues, that Councell decreed, that no commemoration should be made. Ca. 34. & what this cōmemoration i…, I said it appeareth in ye next Canon, where they cal it the commemoration of the holy oblation, that is, they decreed, that no communion should be celebrated, in which being a commemoration of the sacrifice of Christ, no mention of them that so died should be in their thankesgiuing, as was vsed for them that died well.
Out of the 3. Toletan. Cap 22. I shewed that it was decreed that the bodies of the faithfull should be buried only with singing of psalmes, which must be thought sufficient for all Christians: this I said, excluded both prayers and oblations for the deade.
Bristow cauelleth, that although in carrying the corps to the grane, they vsed to singe psalmes, yet they might hauehave prayer & oblation for their soules in the Church. I answere, the councell thinketh singingof psalmes sufficient for the office of their buriall, therefore prayer and oblation were thought needelesse. But that they had prayer and oblation in Spaine, for the deade, he would proue by a saying of Augustine De cur. pro mor. Cap. 1. where he saith the custome of the vniuersall Church is, that in the prayers of the priest, which are made to God at the altar, the commendation also of the deade hath his place. This commendation might be without prayer, as in the olde liturgie the oblation for all the Patriarkes, Prophets, Apostles &c. or if it were in speciall forme of prayer for the deade in Affrica, it proueth not that it was in Spaine. For Augustine speaketh of the vniuersall Church, no farther then his owne knowledge, or if it were in his time, it might afterward be reformed in Spaine, as diuers other errors were, namely in that Councell of Toledo, and other before it. But Bristowe vrgeth me farther, and saith, I might as well say, the Papists pray not for the deade, because they carry the corps with psalmes. But he will neuer see the litle worde, only, ioyned in the Canon to psalmes, nor the sufficiency of the office for the buriall of all Christians. Againe he demandeth of De profundis, being a psalme, Is it not a prayer for the deade, trowe you? I trowe no. Except all prayers that men make for them selues, be prayers for the deade.
As for the buriall of papists, claimed by ministers in England, I thinke you belie them, for they could be content you had all the obstinate papists in your bosome at Loueine, quicke and deade: But such as die among vsus, we are not nice in denying them buriall in the vsuall cemiteries, although we communicate not with them in their life, yet alwaies protesting, that more seuere discipline were meete for them in their life, and to be executed vponupon them euen in their death, after the example of Cyprians time although we think worse of them then Cyprian did of Victor.
I saide farther, that the place of Possidonius speaking of the funerall of Saint Augustine, proueth that the sacrifice offred for the commending of his bodies deposition, was the sacrifice of thanksgiuing. Here first Bristowe accuseth mine ignorance in antiquity, that I vnderstand deposition for the putting of his body by death, where it is the laying downe of it in the earth, as Leuatio corporis, is the taking vp of Saints bodies or reliques, a worshipfull witnesse of antiquity. For Cyrillus testifieth that they were not in his time taken out of the earth Lib. 10. Cont. Iulian. But marke how skillfully Bristowe expoundeth Possidonius, saying, The sacrifice was offred to God, for the commending of his bodies deposition. That is, saith Bristowe (expositione prima) for the laying downe of it in the earth by burying. Why might not his body be laide in the graue without a propiciatory sacrifice? The second exposition is, that by commending the deposition of his body, which is the laying it downe in the graue, he meaneth, the commendation of his soule to God.
With such expositions hee may prooue what hee will out of the Doctors. But to admitt this monstrous interpretation, how agreeth it with popery? or Augustines owne opinion, that seing he was a perfect man & died in persecution, while his City was besieged, & the same day it was taken, that any sacrifice, should be offred for his soule, seeing he himselfe saith, it is iniury to pray for a Martyr, De Verb. Ap. 517? But that prayers for the deade were vsed in Saint Augustines time, and at the celebration of the Lords Supper, it is not of me denied, and therefore needed not of Bristowe to be proued. But he will make me both answerer and replyer, Because I graunt that S. Augustine prayed for his parent, and yet taunt Allen for translating Memoriam sui, a memorie of her to be a memorie for her, as though she would hauehave her sonne to be a Chantrie Priest, to sing for her.
First I say, that if the Pope himselfe, translate Memoriam sui, a memorie for her, the translation is false. Secondly, where he saith, the sacrifice of our price was offered for her: I shewed that before, that so he called the celebration of the Lordes Supper, vnderstanding it neuerthelesse not to bee the sacrifice it selfe, that beeing once offered, did perfectly redeeme vsus, but a memorie and thankesgiuing for the same, as I shewed out of Augustine and other Doctours, Pur. 316. and so forth in the rest vntounto the leafe 327.
Finally, Bristowe citeth Augustine De Verb. Ap. Hom. 34. This as a tradition of our Fathers, the whole Church doth obserue, that for them which are departed in the communion of Christes bodie and bloud, when at the healthfull sacrifice they are remembred in their place, prayer is made, and it is rehearsed that it is offered for them also: I answere this oblation, being generall for all that are departed in the faith of Christ, can be but a sacrifice of thanksgiuing, considering that the sacrifice of bread and wine, as they called it, in remembrance of the onelyonly and insacrificable sacrifice of Christ, as S. Augustine calleth his propitiatorie sacrifice, coulde be no propitiation, but a sacrifice of thankesgiuing, or prosperitie, or praise. August. Contra Faustum lib. 6. lib. 20. Cap. 18. & 21. Contra aduers. Leg. & Prophet. lib. 1. cap. 6. 7. 19. 20. and many other places through out his workes.