Dialogue Wherein a Romish Rhyme is Confuted, Chapter 1
CHAPTER I.
SOme personages of good qualitie, not long agoe, vvere in a Progresse, partly for recreation, and partlie for some necessarie Dueties, both towards GOD and Men: Amongst whom PHILADELPHUS and EUBULUS (refreshed each greatlie with others fellowship) did, ordinarilie, dryue over the tediousnesse of the way, with diverse, not vnprofitable, Discourses. A midst which, one day, at a certayne part of the Countrey, Philadelphus thus spake to Eubulus.
Al-be-it it bee much against my mynde, to part from yo… anie minute of tyme, yet heere I must controll myne owne affection, and craue you pardon, to divert a little, a side of our way, for saluting a tender Kins-woman; where-in I shall vse such haste, as, GOD willing, in short space I shall bee with you.
Eubulus.
Sir, you hauehave reason, not to over-see her: and II. will heere attende your returne vponupon the way.
Now, in little more than an houres space, Philadelphus, returning, had this Speach: How-so-ever I hauehave taken short tyme, yet in it, hauehave I learned some-what, which I can not but regrate vntounto you. I hauehave beene visiting a Gentle-woman (I may say) of good parts other-wayes, but that, by the deceit of Seducers, her Heart is alienated from the Veritie of GOD HIS true Worship: Which, through the louelove I beare her, so pierceth mee, as I could not choose, but, in the little Conference wee had, to aske her, why shee did so obstinatelie obfirme her mynde agaynst Trueth? Shee answered mee, That shee could obtayne no Resolution to her Soule, of such Scruples, as chiefelie mooved her to abhorre our Communion; al-be-it shee had so farre sought for it, that shee had delivered her Doubts, in writ, to their Minister, Theriomachus: vvho receiving them of her hand, with covenant of an Answere, yet had done nothing for his acquytall there-in. And, verilie, if you were acquaynted with her, you would thinke, that all paynes were carefullie to bee employed, where-by shee might bee reclaymed from Errour.
Eubulus.
I can not, but greatlie wonder at this you tellII. mee: for I know Theriomachus to be learned, in such measure, as hee might well anough hauehave acquyted him-selfe in ought shee had, in that matter, eyther requyred of him, or he promised vntounto her. But it is well, that you hauehave made mee foreseene heere-with; for I looke, that even heere Theriomachus shall set him-selfe to meete vsus; and so wee may there-by know of him the whole Case. Loe where hee commeth, exceeding opportunitie. GOD saue you, Brother Theriomachus.
Theriomachus.
The LORD blesse you both: and I am glad …o see you in these Quarters.
Philadelphus.
How doe you lyke (Theriomachus) of your Station heere?
Theriomachus.
A Souldiour must obey his Captayne, and acquiesce in what-so-ever Station hee pleaseth to assigne him: for Hee is wysest, and well knoweth, what best fitteth everie one of vsus. My Station hath taught mee, so experimentallie, what the Apostle meaned, by his fighting with1. Cor. 15. 32 Beasts at Ephesus, and I hauehave acquyred such both an actiue, and a passiue vnderstanding there-of, as I may bee bolde to say, I could wryte a large Commentarie vponupon that place.
Philadelphus.
I take you well (Theriomachus:) you must hauehave patience: For, how-so-ever no part is so barren, but that it produceth some fine Spirits; yet, in such a nature of Climate and Soyle as this is, it is no marvell, though the people, in common, hauehave some in-bred feritie, which, yet, Tyme and Travell may reduce to some more mansuetude.
Theriomachus.
You hauehave, Sir, in a part, but not thorowlie, taken vp my Case: For besides anie in-bred feritie, they are, most parte of them, inchaunted.
Philadelphus.
What! hath the Rodde of Cyrce touched them? or hath anie Thessalonian cunning converted their shapes, and made them Asses of Men, as was Lucius Apuleius? that it may seeme the fore-sight of this Fatalitie, hath made this your Parochin to bee named foreign: and you, accordinglie, doe finde, that, in effect, they are foreign. Yet, Theriomachus, you know, that Asses are peaceable and obsequious Beasts, readie to receiue Burdens, wherethrough your fight may bee the more easie.
Theriomachus.
But they are wilde Asses, and heare not the voyce of the Dryver: and are lyke to those Horses and Mules, whose Mouthes must bee bound vp with Bit and Brydle, lest they come neare vsus. Yea, their Inchaunters hauehave so 'bewitched them, as they are maniable onlie to them, and wayward towardes all others. And they are even so contentedlie miserable, as they hauehave no desire to bee disinchaunted.
Philadelphus,
You tell vsus wonders: For, thus, these Inchaunters should farre exceede all Cyrcees cunning, who, though shee turned the bodilie shape, yet could not bereaue the Inchaunted of their Myndes and Memories, but that they remembered still their proper state, and regrated, inwardlie, their present condition. And the Thessalonian Magicians, could worke no more on Lucius Apuleius.
Theriomachus.
You, yet, in a part, missconceiue mee. I meane not of anie turning of their bodilie shapes, which they retayne still, of Men, whyles yet their Mynds are miserablie metamorphosed.
Haec venena potentius
Detrahunt hominem sibi,
Quae arcem penitus petunt,
Nec nocentia corpori
Mentis vulnere seviunt.
Eubulus.
Brother Theriomachus, you know, that, for makingIII. anie, who hauehave drunken Poyson, to vomit it agayne, sweete Milke, especiallie, must bee given them to drinke: and, for a Chylde, which hath beene misfostered, by sucking in corrupted Milke, you know, that healthsome greene Milke is the best Restoratiue. And thus onlie, in my judgement, you must labour, first, to disinchaunt this people, till, by consuetude, their feritie bee mittigated, and their Stomackes brought to beare more solide Nowrishment. And, as Philadelphus, even now, alluded, verie prettilie, to the name of foreign; so may the name of one most speciall place, here, warne vsus, by Notation, what, both for it selfe, and for the rest, is requisite: even foreign. It is our Lot, Brother, to bee amongst Briers and Thorns, and to dwell in the middes of Scorpions: and our LORD warned vsus of our Condition, when Hee sent His Apostles, as Sheepe, in the…atth. 1…. 16. middes of Wolues. There is none of our Calling, and truelie called, but, in some measure, hath this Battell with Beasts: For, as the feare of the LORD, and the keeping …lesiast. 1…. 13▪of His Commandements, is all the Man; so a Man, even in honour, if hee vnderstand not, is but l…ke the Beastes that …sal. 49. ….perish. I must, indeede, confesse, that you (Brother) are more exercised than manie others: where-through we are holden in a singular care, to comfort you, and in-call GOD, for your vp-holding; vvho is sufficientlie able to beare you out in that Service Hee hath put you in, and to furnish you Strength, according to the Burden Hee hath layde on you. But this our Digression vponupon your Theriomachie, hath set vsus a-side of that which principallie wee had to impart vntounto you, and for which wee are speciallie glad, that we are so convenientlie conveaned. Then, turning Eye to Philadelphus; Sir, you can best make relation, of that which you did latelie heare, and where-with, there-vponupon, you did immediatelie acquaynt mee.
Philadelphus.
You know, Theriomachus, that the Ladie of yonder Place, is my tender Kins-woman, and is commended, for both Naturall and Civill Gifts; for zeale also in Religion, but without knowledge. I asking her, this same day, vvhy shee did remayne so refractarie agaynst the Trueth? Shee answered, That shee could finde no Resolution to her Soule, of such Doubts, as chiefelie moved her to abhorre our Communion; al-be-it shee had so farre sought for it, that shee had delivered them to you, in writ: and that you, receiving them of her hand, vponupon covenant of an Answere, yet had done nothing for your acquytall there-in▪ So as this is not onelie an imputation to you, of fayling promise; but it strengtheneth her also the more in Errour, while your ceasing maketh her think her Questions so strong, that you can finde nothing to answere to them.
Theriomachus.
The Commendation which that Ladie carrieth, for those partes you mention of her, I acknowledge to bee most just. It is true, shee delivered to mee some Questions, in writ; to all which, in conference with her selfe, I answered, as farre, as in my judgement, might hauehave satisfied anie Soule, set singlie for Resolution. As for anie answere in writ, I neyther promised, and asking advise of my Brethren, of our Presbyterie, if it were expedient, and, in that case, offering there-to my paynes, they thought it no wayes convenient, to write anie thing against so ridiculous, and oft-times confuted, Cavillations.
Eubulus.
HaueHave you those Questions by you, that weeIV. may see them?
Theriomachus.
Heere they are. So taking out a sheete of paper, hee gaue it in Eubulus hands: vvho, vnfolding it, VVhat, Brother, this is a Ryme?
Theriomachus.
So it is.
Philadelphus.
I pray you, Eubulus, let vsus heare it.
Then Eubulus, having read it over, with a sober Smyle, looked to Philadelphus, and sayde, VVhat doe you thinke, Sir, of these VVares? Is there in them anie such matter of high boasting to our Adversaries, as that wee should be stirred, to make them answere? Then, turning to Theriomachus, Truelie, Brother, I both reverence the wise judgement of the Presbyterie, and approue your acquiescing there-to. And, verilie, I both marvell, and greatlie pittie, that a person, other-wayes so well endewed, should bee misscarried with such foolish thinges: vvhichwhich, al-be-it they hauehave beene manie times answered, by diverse, and that I hauehave latelie answered each of them particularlie, in my Defence of our Callinges, and Discoverie of the Adversaries Dotage, in the verie selfe Demands, in substance, sent to my selfe; yet simple Soules are still borne in hand, That these, forsooth, are insoluble Knots. And it is, indeede, no marvell, that they delude so securelie, when, first, they hauehave brought their Disciples heere-to, That they neyther will reade what wee write, nor heare what wee teach. And if, perhaps, vponupon anie such motion, as this is, from anie of them, wee fall to write ought, it is, immediatelie (without anie eyther reading or pondering what we speake) put in their Ghostlie Fathers handes: whose word syne, they take for the estimation it is to bee had in; as I hauehave latelie learned, even by mine owne experience.
Philadelphus.
I can not denye, Eubulus, but you hauehave great reason to speake so: yet, in anie Case, I would, that one of you should say some-what to these Questions; where-by, if the misscarried partie may not bee converted, (as mine heartes desire were) yet at least the Questioner his bragging may bee calmed some-what.
Eubulus.
For my pa…t, I mynde not to answere ought,V. both because in mine other Treatises, I hauehave alreadie saide, what I esteemed needfull, (whence anie, who in singlenesse seeketh Resolution, will not wearie to search it) and because I ever abhorred such kinde of contestation: for that, what, or how oft so-ever wee answere, yet still the same thinges shall bee of new, and impudentlie, obtruded. If you, Brother Theriomachus, thinke it good, you may satisfie Philadelphus here-in: and the Adversarie's insolencie shall so answere for you, to your Brethren, as you neede not feare to finde them such severe Iudges, as was Manlius to his valiant Sonne.
Theriomachus.
What you judge, were ydle labour for you: how can I bee there-in laudablie occupyed? if anie expediencie were of an Answere, it lyeth now most on you; for mine imputation is past, and the next, vndoubtedlie, will bee yours. And as it can not escape their knowledge, that you hauehave both craved, and gotten, a sight of their Questions; so this will bee their glorying, That from man to man, wee hauehave all spitted at them, and given them over.
Eubulus.
I am glad, Brother, that in this your daylie CombateVI. with Beastes, you are not yet so mated, but that you are chearfullie disposed to jest with your Friendes. If such motiues as these did alwayes stirre vsus, as our Adversaries are disposed, there should never bee anie ende of jangling. Alwayes, if it please you, I will retaine this Rime some dayes, and there-after sende it vntounto you.
Theriomachus.
So that you send it backe, with what-so-ever children you shall beget vponupon it, that I may hauehave mine own, with increase: and now, with this condition, I must take my leaue of you both, for such instant necessities as force mee, against my will, to breake you companie: and I perceiue some others casting them-selues in the way to meete you. The Blessing of the LORD bee with you.
Philadelphus, and Eubulus, The Grace of GOD accompanie, comfort, and strengthen you.
Eubulus.
You see (Philadelphus) vponupon how light and smallVII. grounds, our Adversaries builde vp to them-selues, matter of glorying against vsus: but, I pray you, what two Gentlemen are these, who, as seemeth, are drawing towards vsus?
Philadelphus.
If I take them rightlie vp, the one is Eriphilus, and the other is Philomathes; both two Papists, but of a much-different disposition: for this Eriphilus, is of a bitter, and contentious humour; the other, Philomathes, of a sweet, modest, naturall, and, other-wayes, as towardlie a Gentleman, as I know anie; but that hee is not, yet, well lightened in the true way of GOD His feare: and, I thinke, they bee comming to salute mee. These same are the Men.
Philomathes.
Doe you know (Eriphilus) what Gentle-man this is, which accompanieth Philadelphus?
Eriphilus.
What? (Philomathes) hauehave you not, as yet, knowne Eubulus? whome, I can not tell, what phreneticke Fansies, or melancholious Mi…contentmentes, hauehave, of late yeares, driven of a private Gentle-man, to become a Preacher: and, hee hath so bewitched the miscarried fansie of Philadelphus, that hee maketh no small account of his fellowship: yea, even my Lord, his Father, and my Ladie, his Mother, carrie him no lesse reverence, and louelove, than if he were, forsooth, a person of some worth.
Philomathes.
And is this, indeede, Eubulus? verilie, I am glad I hauehave the occasion to see him; for hee hath the report of a discreet Gentle-man, and that hee hath some good Gift in teaching; and I hauehave much longed to heare him.
Eriphilus.
What! Philomathes, doe you account it a lawfull thing to heare anie of these Heretickes? This Eubulus, I tell you, is an Oratour, and can perswade foolish people, to wiene much of him. And I will not denie, but he hath some piece of prudent and faire Carriage: but Catholickes ought so much the more to shunne his fellowship, lest they bee deceived with Showes.
Philomathes.
Verelie, (Eriphilus) I can not altogether allow of your judgement in this: for al-be-it I mislike their Church, yet I hauehave heard some of their Preachers speake, both powerfullie, and holilie; so as I can not denie, but I hauehave beene some-times both instructed, and edified by them. And, if wee will lay aside Passion and Praejudice, wee must acknowledge, that there bee some of them, who are both excellentlie learned, and exemplarlie holie men. And thus much hauehave I gained by hearing of them, that certainlie, I perceiue our Writers to lay against them, manie vnjust imputations, so to make their doctrine odious: as if they did maintaine things, where-of I hauehave often heard them teach the contrarie. And, for mee, I never can approoue, that a good Cause be defended with Calumnies.
Eriphilus.
To speake plainlie to you, (Philomathes) I thinke you are little from halting betwixt two: and I can not account him a true Catholicke, who will either heare, or in anie thing approoue such Heretickes; or will so much as once call in question, what-so-ever the Church enjoyneth.
Philomathes.
I will beare with you, to judge of mee as you please: but I both am a true Catholicke, and doe reverence the Church; yet without light, indifferentlie, to embrace all things, I thinke it not onelie brutish, but also vnlawfull for Christians, who hauehave to try what they holde. And verilie, (saving the judgement of holie Church) that opinion of implicite Faith, hath both much disgraced the Catholicke Cause, and hath made our Doctrine to bee suspected of mani…. But it is high time for vsus, to salute these Gentle-men.