Account of a Late Debate at Lime, Title page – To the reader
An Impartial ACCOUNT OF A LATE DEBATE AT Lyme in the Colony of Connecticut, (On the Three following Heads, viz.
I. The Subjects of Baptiſm.
II. The Mode of Baptizing. And
III. The Maintenance of the Miniſters of the Goſpel)
Giving a Summary of what was there Delivered, on both Sides.
Publiſh'd at the Deſire of ſome then Preſent.
Together, with a Diſſwaſive not to Depart from the wholeſome TRUTHS, which People have been Inſtructed in.
Alſo giving ſome Account of the Riſe of the Antipedo-Baptiſt Perſwaſion.
By JOHN BƲLKLEY, A. M.
To which is added, A Narrative of one lately Converted from DREADFUL ERRORS: By Another Hand.
N. LONDON: Printed and Sold by T. GREEN. M, DCC, XXIX.
Chriſtian Reader,
THOU haſt in the following Pages, a Narrative of a Debate had at Lyme, on the 7th of June 1727, with ſome Sectaries but 100 l much prevailing among us in the preſent Day, and who in the Countenance & Favour they have with many, are (with many other things) Evidences of the great Degeneracy of i…)
By [Sectaries] I here intend certain Perſons among us of a various and uncertain Principle & Denomination, and who, perhap, agree not among themſelves in many things beſides an Oppoſing the Truth and them that ſtand for it: And are therefore ordinarilily ſpoken of under the different Denominations of Seventh Day, Firſt Day and No Day Baptiſts, Quakers, Seekers, &c.
As for the Occaſion of this Debate, I ſhall no farther Account for it than to ſay; That ſome time before, the Reverend Mr. Noyes & Mr. Mather, hearing of a Meeting of theſe Sectaries intended at Lyme, and being mov'd with a pious Zeal to withſtand the deſigned propagation of their Errors, did attend the same; where Diſcourſing with Mr Wight… & his Colleague Gorton, on ſome points which I ſuppoſe, the Diſcourſes they then entertained their hearers with led to, ſaid Wightman being weary & declining much diſcourſe th…n, Propoſals were made on both ſides of a more Publick Debate on the following Heads. Hereupon deſires of i… were raiſed in the minds of many, who earneſtly ſollicited, as they had Opportunity, that Time and Place might be appointed …alledging their hopes it might be of Service as well for the Recovery of ſuch, (ſome of them at leaſt) as were either wavering and but too much enclined to, or had already …mbraced their pernicious …rrors, as the better Satisfaction and Eſtabliſhment of others that had not. Being at New London about this time, I was informed of theſe things and withal deſired by ſome, not only to forward what was ſo much deſired by many, but alſo to be preſent at and take a part, at leaſt, in the Debate, but did decline it; and gave it as my Opinion, it were better to let it fall, provided it might be without prejudice to the Truth, alledging I had ſeen Diſputes of the like Nature, but never any good that was done by them, & that whoever undertook in it would find it difficult, if not impoſſible to keep to ſuch rules of Argumentation as might give any proſpect of Benefit, either to them with whom they Argued or any one elſe: And diſcourſing …i…th the Reverend Mr. Adams upon it found him of the ſame Opinion; nor did we come into it till it was talked about the Town, …hat the Sectaries grew bold and audacious; inſulted their Neighbours, telling them their Miniſters were themſelves Conſcious of their Errors, and afraid to appear in the Vindication of what they had aſſerted; upon which it was tho't adviſeable to comply with the general deſire, and accordingly Time and Place were appointed, and intimation of it together w… the Queſtions ſtated, as you have them in the following pages ſent to Mr. Wightman.
On the 6th. of June being at New-L… at Mr. Adams's houſe, in came Mr. Wightman, attended with one Mr. Moſs of Providence … I miſtake not, & another perſon whoſe Name I've not yet learned, Mr. Hitchcock I ſuppoſe was not then come to Town. T…er… had a ſhort Conference with them relating to the intended affair of the next day, during which, it was agreed that a Moderato… ſhould be choſen on each ſide, which according… was then done, On our ſide the Revered Mr. Adams, On theirs Mr. Moſs, whom afterward for reaſons known to themſelves they dropt, and choſe Mr. Hitchcock. There alſo it was agreed the…e ſhould be but one Diſputant on either Side, in all the points to be Debated. And Two things they inſiſted on;
The firſt was, That the preſent Engliſh Verſion of the Bible might be adher'd to on both ſides, & no Terms or Phraſes in it objected againſt as what were capable of Amendment: And to induce to a…compl…ance on our part, Mr. Moſs gave us the following piece of Hiſtory, viz. That the ſaid Verſion was made from the Original Languages by Seventy men, all which as they acted under a Sentence of Death in caſe of Ʋnfaithfulneſs, and went through the whole Work in Solitude, being each alone in a ſeparate Apartment; ſo afterward, on a comparing their ſeveral Performances, were not found to differ in any thing Material. By which tis manifeſt this famous Teacher among our Sectaries, not only ſuppoſed the Verſion of the ſeventy and our Engliſh Verſion to be the ſame; but moreover that the Authors of it ſtood well nigh upon a Level, in point of Divine direction & aſſiſtance with the Chetubim or Hagiographi of the Scriptures in the Originals: Which could he have Convinced us of, no doubt would have wrought us to a compliance with his propoſal. But we gave him to underſtand, that 'twas what we had never heard before, & very much doubted the Truth of; and farther, that our Engliſh Tranſlation, tho' a worthy performance, yet was not Perfect, but capable of Amendment in many places; and that tho' we had no reaſon to Boaſt of our Acquaintance with the Hebrew & Greek Languages, their various Idioms, &c. yet ſince the knowledge we had of them did aſſure us of this, we could not ſee ourſelves obliged to comply with what … Propoſ…d.
The Second thing they inſiſted upon was, That no Argument ſhould be Propounded Syllogiſtically, it being they ſaid, a way of Reaſoning they did not underſtand, and would be unedifying to the Hearers; and yet, as you will ſee by and by, when Mr Wightman took the part of an Opponent, he diſcovered himſelf not ſuch a Stranger to this way of Reaſoning as was pretended. But neither was this complied with.
Finally, They moved that after we had offered what we ſaw cauſe on the Affirmative part of the ſeveral Queſtions, Mr. Wightman might offer on the Negative: which being complyed with, and mutual aſſurances given throughout the whole Debate to watch againſt Paſſion and all other Undecencies, we parted for that Day.
The next Morning accompanied with the Reverend Mr. Hart, Mr Mather, & Mr Griſwold, about T…n of the Clock, the Hour agreed upon, we met them at the Meeting houſe in Lyme, where a conſiderable Number of People were waiting, as might be Expected on ſuch an occaſion. Mr. Hitchcock was now with them, with diverſe more of their Brethren; and they let us know they had made a new choice of him for Moderator on their ſide inſtead of Mr. Moſs; and deſired a further Conference with us apart before we Entred the Meeting-houſe, upon which retiring a little diſtance from the People, they let us know the buſineſs in ſhort was what they had moved the day before, viz. That the wretched way of Reaſoning by Syllogiſms might b… laid aſide and nothing offered in evidence of what we had aſſerted in any other form than as we have it in Scripture. They had nothing to alle…ge more than what we had heard the Day before, but more pertinaciouſly inſiſted upon it: To which Mr. Adams well replyed to this effect, viz. That as Texts of Scripture are ſometimes miſappl…ed, and in no caſe can be proof till the true ſenſe or meaning of them is …ound our, ſtated and determined ſo when it is ſo in order to their being convincing, 'tis needful that the evidence they have in them …e…e' in a clear light, which can't be better done than by improving them as Mediums in Propoſitions Syllogiſtically diſpoſed; and withal …ſſured them that whatever was ofle…ed in that manner ſhou'd be in the plaineſt Terms imaginable, without the leaſt Ambiguity or Obſcurity. But thi… did not ſatisfy; nor is it at all wonderful, ſince nothing was more apparent (particularly in their Moderator) throughout the whole management, than a deſign to cloud & obſoure Light and truth; for which end notwithſtanding what was before Agreed upon, he would frequently break in upon me, interrupt & break the thread and chain of the Argument; that ſo the ſtanders by might not ſee the Connexion and Dependance of its everal parts, and Conſequently the evidence o… it. Near an Hour was ſpent in hea…ing & anſwering their ſenſeleſs Objections againſt this way of Reaſoning, nor did they give over ti…l it was told them, It was in vain for them lon…er to inſi… upon it; that we came thither with a deſign to Benefit others as well as them, and for that end with a ſixt Reſolution to Debate the ſeveral points agreed upon, in ſuch due form & order as might give us a proſpect of anſwering that deſign, & to avoid all ſuch Rambles & Excurſions from the Argument in Hand which had tendred Debates of the like nature unprofitable heretofore; and to be ſhort, that if they would not agree to ſuch a Regular Method of Proceeding, we would go into the Meeting-houſe, & read over to the Aſſembly the ſeveral Queſtions to be Debated, and let them know we were there ready to make good the affirmative part of them if any would appear to anſwer us, upon which they ſaid no more, but accompanied us into the Houſe, where, after a Proaemium delivered by Mr. Adams, the Debate began.
Its impoſſible in an affair of this nature, (wherein Excurſions from the Argument to anſwer their Impertinences were frequently inevitable, and which continued from between Ten & Eleven in the Morning till about Six in the Afternoon) to recover every Sentence & much more every Word and …ive them their d…e p…ace and order: Tho' it was deſired and ſought for, yet none could be found who in Short Hand might take down things as they were Delivered, yet I think I've not omitted any thing Materia on either ſide, I'm ſure I've not wi…ingly done ſo, but related every thing as far as I have been able to recover them, and that with the utmoſt perſpicuity and plainneſs I'm capable of, that ſo Perſons of the meanneſt Capacities (who may reaſonably be tho't moſt to ſtand in need of ſomething of this nature) may receive Benefit by it. Not long before this Debate I had read Mr. Tombs his Two Treatiſes on Infant Baptiſm, Mr. Norcott on the ſame Head, from whom I had extracted ſeveral Paſſages, needleſs here to be Related, containing things either aſſ…rted or conceded by them, …d which I knew not but might be of ſome uſe in caſe I were concerned in i…; and before I proceeded to the Argument, told Mr. Wightman of it, read to him ſome of them, deſiring him to let me know how far we were agreed, and whether in thoſe things he concurred with thoſe Gentlemen in Opinion, or not? But he ſeemed Shy of making then any Confeſſion of his Faith, and gave me to underſtand by his Anſwer that he cared not to let me know what his Opinion in thoſe points was. On which I Deſiſted and went to the Argument. The Queſtions Debated were theſe, Viz.
I. Whether it be the Will of GOD that ſome Infants, viz. The Infants of Viſible Believers, ſhould be Baptized?
II. Whether Baptiſm by Sprinkling of Water on the Subject of it, be Lawful and Sufficient for the Ends of the Inſtitution?
III. Whether the Preſent way of the Country in Maintaining Miniſters by a Publick Rate or Tax be Lawful.