The World Possessed with Devils Part 2, Dialogue 1 – Summary 1
❧ The fourth Dialogue of the Demoniacke world, named Familiar Diuels.
Theophrast, Tobie, Ierome, Eustace.
Theophrast.
ACcording to our former talke, of those which are contēted with ye shew of ye gospel only, methinks yt if we sōwhat narrowly look into their behauiour, we shal find thē not much vnlike to yt Demoniack, of whom S. Marke and S. Luke both make mention.
Tob.
How behaued he himselfe?
Theo.
In his behauiour, he shewed himselfe cleane contrary to himselfe.
Tob.
It is no greate maruayle if the Diuell be contrary to him selfe, but it were rather to be maruayled at, if hee The Diuel contrary to himselfe.should not be so: for that he is both a lyar, & also a deceiuer. But wherin doth he graynsay himselfe?
Theo.
Hee called our Sauiour Christ …arke 3. …ike 4.the holy one of God, if he be the holy one of God, than is he come to hallow vsus: & if hee become to hallow vsus, he must of necessitie …sus Christ … holy one of …od.driue the Diuel from vsus. For the Diuell is an vncleane and filthy spirite, and cleane contrary to all holinesse, and to the spirite of God, which is called holy, because it halloweth, …ath. 12.yet the Diuel feareth nothing so much, as to be driuen from vsus, for feare we should be sanctified of Iesus Christ, whiche is the holy one of the most holy.
Tob.
The wicked spyrits did manifestly shewe that, by the petition whiche they made to Iesus Christ, that he woulde not dryue them out of the countrey.
Theo.
We need to seeke for no further proofe hereof. For the Diuel desireth nothing so much as to entertayne vsus in al filthinesse and vncleannesse, to the ende that God might not be sanctified nor glorified in vsus, but be more and more dishonoured and blasphemed: And therefore doeth this wicked spirite flatter Christ, giuing hym the tytle that belongeth to him. Doubtlesse hee did this for two principall causes: The first, to bring Christ in suspition, and to diminish his glory in seeming to prayse him. The second to escape his hands by flattery, that he might thereby be accompted of him, as his friend.
Tob.
Me thinkes this Deuill gainsayeth himselfe: for he desireth still to play his part, that is, to hynder vsus, and yet acknowledgeth Iesus Christ to be the same, which shal let him, and is purposely come into the world to the same end.
Theo.
Yea he flattereth Christ, thereby to let him from executing his office, whilest hee in the meane time might playe his prankes. There are alwayes manye suche Diuels among vsus. For there are many that prayse the true ministers of GOD and good men before their faces, whō they knowe well enough to be enemyes to their vices: which they doe not, for any louelove that they hauehave eyther to them or their vertues, (for they hate nothing more) but to get the more in fauour, and that good men should not punishe them as they deserue.
Tob.
They call them honest mē, because they would hinder them, from doing ye duty of honest men, & praise their vertues, to the end they should not vse them.
Theo.
Indeed, thou hast hit the nayle on the head. And therfore least the seruants of God and vertuous men, should make them lyars, which so prayse them, they cannot do better then faithfully execute their charge, and shewe the duety of good men, as well towardes them, as towardes all other: euen as Iesus Christ did towardes these Diuelles, which praysed him so much. For in casting out these Diueis, he shewed in effect, both to the Diuelles and to all other, that hee was verily the holy one of GOD, and the sonne of the moste high God.
Tob.
Tush man, that is not it that the diuels and wicked ones would hauehave.
Theo.
Why, we knowe this for certayne, …f those kindes …mē who giuegive … Iesus Christ … the Gospel, …ch titles as …elōg vntounto thē, …cause they …ould hauehave thē …acke their duie.that they are contented to giuegive Iesus Christ and his faithfull seruants the titles that belōg to them, whyle they see no remedy to gaynsay or resist. But they had rather that Iesus Christ & his, wold be content with the bare name alone (as many other be) & not execute the office which belōgeth therto, & for which cause such names & titles are giuen them. For howe many are there in the world now a dayes: but chiefly in the Popish Churche, whiche are contented with the titles, and rentes whiche they possesse vnderunder colour of the sayd tytles: not caring for executing the office whiche they are bounde to, and whereof they beare the name?
Tob.
There are enow such of al sorts.
Theo.
The Diuell was contented that Christ should be called the holy one of God, if he would not shew the office of the holye one of God against him. So are there many in these dayes, which are content to prayse the Gospell, and to honour it with their mouthes, and outward ceremonies: so that it be not looked on, & the doctrine therin contayned bee not published & practized. We hauehave euidēt proof therof in the Popish masse: for it is maruelous to see what honor the masse giueth to the book of the Gospell, when it is song, & specially in high masses. Whē ye gospel is sōg, there is sēsing, torchlight, Of the honour which the Papists giuegive to the Gospel.kissing of ye book, stāding vp: Alwaies prouided, that the Gospel be song or said to the people in an vnknowen tongue, and not in suche sorte to bee vttered, as that the vertue and efficacie thereof bee manifested vntounto the heartes of the people. Is not this a great subtletie of Sathan, to shewe such honour to the Gospel, to the ende it might bee the more dishonoured? For the … the honour, …ich the ene…es of the dis…line of the …spel giuegive to … Gospel.greatest honour that the Gospel can hauehave, is to be printed in the heart: & contrariwyse the greatest dishonour that may be done vntounto it, is, not to receiue it with true faith, and to be carelesse of the vnderstanding, and effecting thereof.
Tob.
This then I perceiue to be thy drift to proue, that we honour the Gospel in …hat the true …iour, and dis…our of the …spel is.our Masse, as the Diuell honoured Iesus Christ, when he called him the holy one of God, meaning thereby to put him from doyng of that his duety which God his father had commaunded him to doe.
Theo.
I wil not giuegive a poynt to choose. For, is not that which you doe, a very mockery vntounto Iesus Christ and his Gospel?
Tob.
Thou commest very fast stil vppon vsus. But I pray thee tell me, is there none amongst you that playeth the like diuels part?
Theo.
Yes I warrant thee, too too manie: But they playe it after an other sorte: For there are some, who are contented to suffer the minister of the Gospel preach the pure word of God, yea, and to hauehave ministers also, and to mainteyne them: so they enforce them not to the practise of the Gospell. Wee spake before of those that withstood the discipline of the Gospel. Of whiche there are two sortes: The first of them, are they, that cannot abyde, that any shoulde speake, preache, or write thereof: The seconde sort of them are they which are contented to heare with all that, so there bee no talke of the execution thereof. But the worst is, that among these, there are some, that do not only withstande the execution therof on themselues, but also hinder those that would be contented to receiue it, and wil not suffer them so to doe.
Tob.
Why doe they so? Me thinketh it inough, & in deed too much for thēselues to be rebels against God & his word, although they hindred not the obedience of others.
Theo.
I thinke they doe it, because they feare, least, after ye others were brought to yt discipline, they also might bee enforced thereunto. For there are many that would not greatly care though other men lyued neuer so vprightly, so that they themselues might be at liberty to do what them listed.
Tob.
I wonder at those men. For if they think the doctrine good, yt is preached vntounto thē, why suffer they it not to be practized & put in execution: if they thinke it not good, why suffer they it to be preached, and specially, seeing they hauehave authority and power to stoppe the same?
Theo.
No doubt of it, there are too too many (as we hauehave before said) that woulde gladly stop it, if they durst: were it not for feare they shold be accompted tyrantes & opē enemies to God. But because they see, yt they cannot do it but to their great reproch & shame, they are like the diuel, who is contented to take Iesus Christ for the holy one of God, so he may be stil a diuel, & continue in the selfe same state, wherin Iesus Christ foūd him. And therfore whē they are inforced, as Christe inforced this diuel, they crye out as he cried, & shew their secret hatred to the truth of God, & fal a threatning & persecuting of his true seruāts, whē as they perceiue yt they can neither by fayre speeches, nor yet hypocrisy, obteine their desire.
Tob.
And therefore it is naught euerye way, & waxeth stil worse & worse. You make a iest at vsus, & say, yt we on our side honor the gospel outwardly, but that we neither care for ye vnderstāding therof, nor lyuing thereafter. And I beseech you, wherein is your side any whit better? For they are contented the Gospel should be preached, and the sence thereof expounded, so they heare it not, or if they heare it, so they follow it not, no more thā we. Thus we are both wel plesed with the name of Christian, and gospel, but we neither care either for the dutie of christianitie, or yet for the fruite that wee should receiue by the Gospell.
Theo.
So say I to: For we are all contented that Iesus Christ should bee the holy one of GOD, so hee hallowe vsus not.
To.
Hereby we may easily perceiue, that the Diuell, which gaue this title to Christe, is not yet out of the world.
Theo.
As much may be sayde of that other Diuel in the Sorceresse of Philippi, Acts. 16. The Deuill of Philippi. The commendation, whiche the deuill giueth to the mynisteri of the Gospell.of whome we spake before. For GOD knoweth howe little pleasure the Diuell which possessed her tooke, in the ministerie of Paule and Sylas, and yet hee praysed them and their ministerie, and extolled thē to the people of Philippi to the vttermost.
To.
Surely, it is to be meruailed at, that the father of lyes woulde prayse and extoll before men, the trueth, which hee hateth aboue all other thinges.
Theo.
Yea, but here is a further matter then all this. For, thou seest, that be doeth not onelyonly forbeare to withstand, and openlye resist the seruauntes of God, but beeing also enemy to mans saluation, encourageth the people to hear the doctrine of saluatiō at ye mouths of those, whō god hath appoynted to be ye ouerthrow of his kingdome. To. Truely, herein …e meruailoussy changeth and altereth his nature: for where before time, he was woont with might and maine, to withdraw men from the worde of God: here he stirreth and prouoketh them thereunto.
Theo.
And yet that is not, his meaning was cleane contrary, how glorious & The meanes which the Deull vseth to fight against the Gospell.glittering a shew soeuer he made. And therfore hereby thou maist perceiue, that commonly, the Deuill hath two stringes to his bowe to resist the trueth.
To.
Which be they?
Theo.
The one is, in that, yt he is a tyrant and murtherer, he will, if it be possible resist the trueth by force: and so vse y• string, beecause it agreeth iumpe with his nature: but if that string will not serue, hee putteth on the other. To. What māer a one is that?
Theo.
It is lying: for, he wil by ye, if he cā, practise to come in credit: for yt is as natural to him, as ye first. But when hee mindes to worke by lying, hee vseth not alwayes one way. To. How doth he than?
Theo.
First, if he hauehave to doe with ignoraunt men, in the word of God, and grosse headed people, he thē bestirreth him to ouerthrow the trueth by false doctrine, superstition, and idolatry, wherwith he disguiseth. ye true religiō. But, if that way wil not serue his turne, he seemeth by & by to allow of the doctrine of the trueth, and to be friend thervnto, to the end that vnderunder this colour, he maye the more subtillye and secretly bring his enterprise to passe. And, although this enemy is alwayes greatly to be feared, yet is he neuer so much to be feared, as when 2. Cor. 11. The deuil transfigureth him self into an Angel of light.he vseth thus to faigne and glose. For hee neuer hurteth so sore, as when he transfigureth himselfe into an Angell of light, which he can right well doe.
To.
I thinke that was the cause, whie S. Paule put the Diuell of Philippi to silence, as also why Iesus Christe put those to silence, which praysed him.
The.
That is out of all doubt. For although, that these Diuels spak ye truth, in testifying that that was true, which both Iesus Christe and his Seruauntes hadde spoken and doone: yet is it not to be said properlye, that they spake the trueth, by reason of their intent, and the ende which they pretended. For, where they …That trueth it … that the deuil … able to speak, …nd to what end … speaketh it.outwardly seemed to induce the people to followe Iesus Christe, by reason of the gloryous woordes, which they gaue out of him, they had a cleane contrary purpose, to withdrawe them from him.
Toby.
How is that possible?
Theo.
Euen by this meane. For, whē the Diuelles vse these kinds of woordes, they whiche heare them, eyther beleeue them, or not beleeue them. And if they beleeue them, they beleeue them not as if they were the Enemies of Iesus Christ, and of his Seruauntes: But doe rather thinke, that there is great friendship, and a friendlye agreement betwixt them.
And therfore, if they thought Saint Paule and Sylas to bee the Seruaunts of God, they might likewise thinke, that this Sorceresse was neyther against them, nor yet they against her, but that they agreed all very well together. But if they beleeued them not, but tooke the wicked spyrites, to bee wicked spyrites in deede, that myght hauehave brought a great slaunder vppon Iesus Christe and his Seruauntes, and vppon their doctrine also: and so hauehave made them all to bee very greatlye suspected, by reason they had the testimonie of such witnesses.
Toby.
Then I perceyue that the Deuill is alwayes readye to serue his own turne at a pynch.
Theo.
Assure thyselfe of that. For, if hee and his Testimonie were reiected, they whom hee hadde commended, should also for the same cause, bee reiected with him for company: and yet hee him self in, the meane whyle, not bee reiected at all. For hee woulde still keepe his possession in those, who had forsaken Iesus Christe and his, vnderunder another colour. And therfore if they were entertayned, the Deuill would also be entertayned with them: and so by that meanes, hee should be in truth, and in deede, entertayned: and Iesus christ, his doctrine, and seruauntes, but in shewe, and for fashions sake. For, Iesus Christ and his aduersarye, are not to bee entertayned both at once, neyther hath hee any familyaritie and common abode and dwelling with him.
Toby.
Heere is a meruailous subtill pollycie, and crooked nature of the Deuil, being therin so compounded with leasing and vntrueth, as that hee turneth the truth it selfe into lying, and maketh the trueth to bee no more trueth, when it once commeth out of his mouth.The trueth, not trueth.
Theo.
You saye verye tru…lye. For, Trueth, to speake properly, consisteth not in the bare woordes spoken, but in the meaning, for which cause they are vttered. And therefore hee speaketh not the trueth, which sayeth not the trueth, but onelyonly to lye, and deceyue.
And beesides, wee are not to take for trueth, the trueth that is myxed with lying. For, in this case, the trueth is nowe no more trueth, but onelye a false colour of trueth, and without any substance therof, for the colouring of a lye. And therfore, How wee oug… to iudge of th… trueth.when we are to iudge of the trueth, wee must not iudge only according to ye woords which wee heare, nor yet take them by halfes, but receyue all the partes together, and so looke to what end and purpose they were spoken.
Toby.
If this, that thou speakest off were well looked vntounto, wee shoulde neuer hauehave so manye men seduced and leadde awaye from the trueth, as daylye wee see.
Theo.
Why, I will tell thee, we neede The honour which the Papists do to Iesus Christ, is t… dishonour him.not seeke any further for examples, concerning this matter, thē to the Romish church. For, the Pope and his false Prophets hauehave vsed the selfe same cunning, which the Deuilles vsed at Philippi: besides others also, who hauehave made as glorious a confession of Iesus Christ. For the holy scripture attributeth nothing to Iesus Christ, and to his church, which they do not also attribute vntounto him, in plain & bare words. For, ther is no praise nor commendation, which the Prophets, Apostles, and Martyres euer gaue vntounto him, that they likewise giuegive not vntounto him: And yet Iesus Christ and his church hauehave not more cruel enemies, that more villanously blaspheme, nor more cruelly persecute them, then these men, whiche fayne themselues to bee their greatest and deerest friendes.
They will giuegive al the prayse that a man woulde wishe them, both to Iesus Christ, to his Church, and to his Gospell, and yet in all the rest of their dealinges, they make no reckning of them: but onelye in faigning themselues to be their friends and defendours, and so by that meanes they deceyue the worlde, and aduaunce them selues farre aboue Iesus Christ, and his Church.
And in so dooing, they make warre with Iesus Christe, at his owne proper coaste and charge.
And this course also tooke Mahomet, Mahomet, and the Pope, the Deuille… …ollye counter…eitors.when he first began to deliuer his law. For if he had not spoken wel of Iesus Christ, of his Prophetes, and Apostles, he had neuer had such a traine following him as hee hath had. But he aduanced, and set foorth the prayses of Iesus Christe & of his, therby to ouerthrowe Christian religion, and say a foundation, whereon to builde his false religion with some apparance of truth.
Tob.
What? thinkest thou that there are not moe then those which thou hast spoken of, who hauehave put this matter in practise?
Theo.
Why? a man shall hardly see any other thing practised at this day in the Shorne mon… sticall hypocri… feigne thēselu… to be friends … the gospell, th… they might the… by hinder the course thereof.worlde. For, to answere to the first poynt, we see that euer sithence that God hath caused at this day, the light of his holy Gospell to shine amongst vsus, that there hauehave an exceeding pestilent number of Monkes and Fryers, and others of that rabble entred, who hauehave, and dayly doe, Iustily play theyr partes. For so soone as they sawe, that their beggerly wallet brought them not home, so notable a reuenue as in tunes past it did, and that they were not in such honor and reputation as before indeed they were, by preaching of their fables and lyes, they then baganne to counterfeite to bee Christian, and Gospellike Preachers. For, some of them, forsooke their cloysters, and became to serue in Churches, where they vnderstood they might liue with greater libertie, and so cleane cast off their cowle and weede when they were gotten out. And some of them continued amōgst those people, who as yet had not the sincere ministerie of the gospel free amongest them. These men ware some part of their monasticall weedes, and cast some outward part of thē cleane off. And so by this their hypocritical dealing, they had recourse vntounto many good houses and Churches, whereinto they had not been as yet receiued, if they had not made some shew to hauehave been friendes, and not enemies, and persecutors, as commōly they are, who vowe thēselues to these damnable sects. Howbeit they had no sooner set in footing, but that they shewed a cast of their office, & what louelove they bare to Iesus Christ and his gospel. For, then they shewed themselues whether they were shorne monasticals or not, and with what spirite they were guided. And there are at this day anexceeding shameles nūber, who both on ye one side & the other, play their parts in this pageant, & such in deed, as trouble more the churches, then all the rest of the enemies, which they cā possibly hauehave. Howbeit, I meane not here, to find fault with such good mē, as with good tokēs hauehave forsaken these damnable sects, & behaued themselues as ye good seruants of God, of which, god be thāked for thē, there are a great number. And therefore, it is very needefull for all men to take good heed of these transfigured shorne monasticals, who hauehave thrust themselues into the church as Apostles & ministers of the gospel, to the end men by them bee not lightly deceiued.
Tob.
I know not after what maner thou handelest these shorne monasticals, of whom thou speakest, & many others suche like, who dayly ioyne with you: but this I right wel know, that there are an exceeding shameles number of thē, who hauehave no great good liking of you, nor yet of your Churches, and namely of the most famous, vertuous, and learned among you.
The.
Why man, they must needs make an end of playing out their whole pageant, which they hauehave begunne, & that the end of theyr sport iump with the beginning.
For, seeing they hauehave begunne to play the iolly Diuels, and hauehave so entred by hypocrisie and dissimulation, it must necessarily followe, that they must in the ende discouer the iollitie therof, as the Diuel of Philippi did. For, when he sawe himselfe discouered, and laid wide open, and that all his flatterie and dissimulation woulde doe hym no good, and that Saint Paule and Silas had no will to tarry with them, nor yet come The false shewe …f the diuell, is …irned into furyneere them, hee turned all his flatterie into furie, and so manifested himselfe to be euen such a one as in deed he was. For, so soone as he was come out of the chāber maide, he ran vponupon the masters, and entred so far into them, as that hee made them starke mad. And in so doing, he played another maner of part then the first was. Now, there are a great many which play the like parts. For so long as a man will let them alone to bee as they are, or not discouer them, they wyll be very milde and gentle: but if the pastime be for a good round summe of money, and that they see any man goe about to take it from them in good earnest, then lay they open the Diuel whom before they kept close vnderunder so goodly a shewe & countenaunce. There is also another sort of them, & they will neuer tarry vntill such time as they be driuen to that extremitie: But so soone as they may once vnderstand, where they may get into a warmer kitchin, and bee better fed, away they pack thence, and shake hands with the gospel, which they made shew they meant to hauehave followed.
Toby.
In very deede, I hauehave right well vnderstood, that there hauehave beene too too many of such, who after they had once made so iolly a shewe, hauehave well enough raked vp diuers Benefices, when as they might well rake them, and then hauehave quyte and cleane lea…t the Gospell, and kept themselues altogether occupied about them.
Theo.
There is no doubt of it, but that suche hypocrites finde Benefices enough, to rake vp before such time as they woulde be founde. But heere is the worst matter of al the rest: that for as much as they are reuolted from the Gospel, they proue the greatest enemies that the gospel can possibly hauehave.
Tob.
But to returne to this Diuell whereof thou earst spakest, that was at Philippi, hee was not yet carried away with such a furie, but yt he right well coulde tell how to play the pageāt, which he had enterprised to play. For he couered himself with a right fauourable colour towards al men. For, whereas before he had so greatly commended S. Paule & Sylas, together theyr doctrine & ministerie, he soone after accused them to be mutinous & seditious fellowes, who went about to ouerthrowe all politike and publike order & gouernment, & abolish … fauourable ac…sation against …e seruants of …od.the lawes and state of life of the countrie, which had from time to time been receiued and allowed of all men, & besides, that they troubled the publike peace, & all the whole world.
The.
Thou mayest thē perceiue by that with what affection he so greatly commended them before. For this is alwayes one and the selfe same diuel. For, he did but only The diuell hath …iuers vizers.change his vizer, to play another part, in the person of the masters of that maide the …orceresse, as he had before plaied in the person of ye said maid. For, he had mastred both the one and the other. And because he feared that that should not com… to passe, whiche came to passe, he transfigured him selfe as thou hast heard. But when hee sawe, that he was put beside his hope, he stroue another way, against the seruants of God. And herein we see yt, which before was spokē of ye possessed, who are possessed wt the diuel, by reasō of theyr sins, althogh they seem nothing lesse, then to be possessed with Diuels. For, wee euidently see in this place, how the Diuel made these Philippians become men possessed with wicked spirites, by whom, he raysed vp all the whole Citie, but chiefly the magistrates, against the seruants of God. And in this dealing, hee had The wicked … the euill which they themselue… do to the charg… of the godly.recourse vntounto his auncient practises, wherof we hauehave heretofore spoken. For, he accuseth these holy men, of the self same thing which he himselfe did, by those wicked men whom he had possessed with Diuels. For, he accused the Apostles of sedition and mutente, and rayled on them, as though they had been the publique enemies of peace, and of all good order. For, (quoth he) who hauehave The notable affection, wherewith the wicked are mouth.beene the cause of this hurly burly in the citie, but these seditious fellowes? And who hath stirred vp the people hereunto, but their couetousnesse?
Tob.
In very deed, hee that had heard them speak, would hauehave said, yt they greatly loued the Romanes, who were their Lords and heads, and generally al the whole countrie, and that they mightily feared, that sone hurt might come vntounto it, by the meane of Paule and Sylas.
Theo.
As you say in deede, for when Iudas found fault with the losse which the The great cha…tie of Iud…s. Math. 20. Marke. 14.poore had, by reason of the oyntment that was spent vponupon Iesus Christ, who woulde not hauehave greatly allowed and lyked of his reasons, if hee had but onelyonly regarded his wordes? Howbeit, Saint Iohn rightly …ohn. 12.discouereth his hypocrisie, when as he saith, That Iudas spake not those words for any compassion that he had on the poore, neither yet of any desire that he had that the money which might hauehave been had for the ointmēt, shoulde hauehave been bestowed vponupon them: but hee spake those wordes, because he himself was a theefe. And therefore, desired that this money might come thorow his hands, to the end he might purloyne some part of it to his owne vse. And euen so fared it with these Philippians, of whom we now spake. For, they cloaked themselues with a certaine care which they had of the full and whole preseruing and maintenance of the good lawes and policie of the Country: But Saint Luke setteth foorth the secresie Act. 16.of their disease, saying: That they did it, because they were angrie for the losse of so great a gaine which they receiued thereby.
Tob.
By this may easily be perceiued what their affectiō was that they bare vntounto the countrie.
The.
In deed here was ye louelove which they had vntounto ye countrie, forsooth, it greeued thē that they could no longer abuse thē of the countrie, by robbing & spoiling it, by meane of the sorceres, & her familiar diuel, as heretofore they had done. Now, if I shold say vntounto thee, I pray thee cōsider, whether ye Pope & his supposts do not the like, I know thou wouldest answere me, & say, as heretofore thou hast oftētimes answered mee, I pray thee also consider, if your mē who so greatly glory in the reformation of the Church, do not as much.
Tob.
Thou sayest truly, and so I would in deede.The colour… which the suppostes of Antichrist vse, for the defence of their religion.
Theo.
And yet thou canst not possibly denie it, but that the Pope & his, doe cloake their tyrannie, ambition, and couetousnesse, with such colours. It is well enough knowen, that the more part of thē, care no more for God, nor yet for any religion whatsoeuer, then the very Epicures: And yet whē a man shal heare thē speake, a man woulde say that they were so feruent and zealous about the maintenance of the church, ancient lawes, coūcels, & canons of ye anciēt fathers, as it is possible for men to be. And yet there are none, who dare more boldly and shamelesly infringe & breake thē, then they which cal thēselues the preseruers of the same. It seemeth, that they tremble with feare, for ye destruction of Christendome, and yet there are none yt go about to ouerthrow it sooner thē they, no, & if all the enemies of Christēdome besides were gathered together, they could not all (I say) do more for the ouerthrowing thereof.
Tob.
In very deede, I cannot gaine say that, which thou hast said: But yet I pray thee, say something also of your owne sort.
Theo.
True it is, that this diuell who dealeth in this maner, amongest the fauourers & abbettors of the Romish Antichriste, transfigureth himselfe after another maner of sort amongest vsus. For, it is out of all question, that the Popes, Cardinals, Bishops, priestes, friers, & al the rest of that rabble, do what they can, to make kings, princes, and potentates vnderstand and beleeue, that yf they take not some good order for the rooting out of those whom they condemne for heretiks, they are in great hazard of losing their kingdomes and dominions. Howbeit they fetch most of their colours from religion, and from the ancient councels & canōs, and the desolation and destruction of the The Imitation that is betweene the papiste, and those which bra… of the gospel.church of Christ. But our people, who are led with the same spirite, dare not arme thēselues with the name of the church, against the true ministers, but come armed with ye lawes and ordināces of princes and gouernors, to make war against God. For, if a man lay the worde of God before, they will in no wise meddle with that. For, they dare not openly, once quetch against that, as before we hauehave said, but by and by alleadge theyr reformation, and disputations and ordenances. And so, vnderunder the shadowe thereof, they condemne the true Ministers of the Lorde, not for that they hauehave done any thyng agaynst God: But because they will not agree to the statutes & tradions of mē, but would hauehave them to be tryed & ouer ruled by the word of God.
Tob.
Why, thē they do euen as I heard thee once finde fault withal. For, there are some countries, wherein princes hauehave forbidden any mā once to speake of this newe law, & yt no man should bring in any new religiō, vpō paine of loosing his life. Then soone after yt these lawes were made, if it had so fallen out y• any man had beene charged to hauehave byn hearde once speake of the word of God, as thou now speakest, and had done any thing, otherwise thē according to ye old religiō, the question was neuer asked, whether this mā had either spoken or done wel or amisse. But it was enough if any mā could hauehave said, he hath done against y• law of the prince of the countrie.
Theo.
In deed, Daniel was cast into ye Lions den vponupon suche a complaint, because he chose rather to obey God, then the wicked edict of the king.
Tob.
Me thinketh, yt they do the like amōgest you in some places.
Theo.
If we here wel cōsider the words of the mutinous Philippiās, we shal almost find ye like in these our dayes, aswel amōgst the papistes, as also amongest those which The Go… condēned th… row preiudi… wtout know… of the cause. Act. 16.make warre against the gospel, and yet doe brag of the reformation thereof. For these mutinous people, namely said: These men goe about to ouerthrowe & abolishe, those lawes & ordināces, which are not lawful for vsus to alter, because we are Romanes. They deale here marueilous maliciously. For they here goe about, through their own preiudice, to make the cause of the seruants of God to be so hateful & so suspected, as that it cannot be heard in iudgemēt, nor yet be talked of. And euen so, deale the papists altogether with vsus. For, they send vsus to old customes, old councels, and to the cōsent of the whole church, a great number of yeres past, to the end our cause should neither be reasoned of, nor yet heard, but to be condēned before ye cause …e known. And they amōgst vsus which will bend thēselues against the seruants of god, & oppose thēselues against the true discipline of the church, make euen as great warres. But if there be a matter in questiō but of y• value of 10. or 12. s. I warrāt you there is neither partie, but shall be heard at large, either in their propositions, oppositions, replies, & triplies, and in whatsoeuer they can, or are able to alleage. But if it be a matter which concerneth the minister of the Gospell, the worde of God, the church, & consciences of all men, it falleth out many times, that iudgement is giuen, & the partie neuer heard. For, in such a case, they need bring in no better matter, then a false report, or some euill suspition, for the condemning of a good cause, without being either hard or yet wel knowē. It is enough if it be slaunderously reported, that it is against the reformation or lawes of princes, & yet it shalbe taken out of the sincere word of God. And so by that meane they will not leaue so much as any one place, either on ye one side, or yet on the other, for the word of God, or for ye truth therof, but must alwaies become subiect to the traditions of men, if any man will so proceede therein.
To.
S…th the case so stādeth, me thinketh ye one of vsus should not so soone war against another as we do. For, if we do ill, you doe euē as ill. And therfore, if thou wil… say, that the philippiā diuelis amōgst vsus, we may also as boldly say, that he carrieth not so long with vsus, but that he cōmeth nowe & then to you, and taketh his pleasure amōngst you, yt he might catch you with his cūning baits.
Theo.
I must needs agree with thee in parte, but not in all, for there are som of vsus, who in deed, are very like the Iewes, yt pursued Iesus Christ to death. For, eueryevery man There is b… coūterfet fren… ship most whe… amongst princ…knoweth, howe well the Iewes loued the Romanes, considering y• they held them as cruell tyrants, & enemies to God, to their religiō & to all their whole nation.
To.
I suppose they loued thē so well, as that they wished them all hanged.
Theo.
No doubt of that. And yet the Iewes so mortally hated Christ, and had so great a desire to be rid of him, and put hym to some cruel death, as that it made them speake, as though they had beene the best subiectes that the Romanes had in any part of the worlde. And yet scarcely had the Romanes greater rebels then they were. Neuerthelesse, they stoutly and constantly maintained the lawes of the Romane Empyre, saying: that they had none other king but Caesar. For, they accused Iesus Christe, Iohn. 19.as one that meant to inuade Caesars kingdome, crying out and saying: That whosoeuer he was yt spake against Caesar, was worthie of death.
Tob.
Wherefore speakest thou these wordes?
Theo.
I speake them for this purpose. because we see there are some such in these our dayes, yt louelove not their princes & Lordes one iote, & much lesse the true religion whiche their princes & Lords say, yt they defend & maintaine, & and yet for all this, these mē will be the first that shal arm thēselues with the lawes & statuts of princes, against their pastors & ministers. And to the ende yt that which I say, might, by woefull experience, be the better perceiued, we shall not need to consider of any other thing better, then of those who make themselues so zealous towards the lawes of their Lords, & see howe heretofore they hauehave obserued them, and yet doe, & especially those lawes which agree best with the word of the Lord. And if there be any rebels in all ye coūtries, both against the word of God, & against all the good ordenances of their princes & Lords, they are ye only men. For, all their talke, their liues, and conuersations, do to too euidently witnes the same.
Tob.
But by your leaue, they make the greatest shew to be ye best obseruers of th…, as ye Philippians did, who accused Paule & his companion.
Theo.
It is euen all one. Howbeit, Magistrates ouer greatlye fauouring wi… ked men.the greatest mischiefe that ensueth hereon, is this: that such wicked men finde oftentimes as vniust and vndiscret Magistrates, as the Magistrates of Philippi. For, after yt these Magistrates of Philippi had heard the false accusation that was made against S. Paule and Sylas, they caused these two holy men to be whipped, without hearing of them what they could say for their defence: and yet were they not contented herewith, but caused them soone after to be sent to a most cruell prison, and there set them in the stockes.
Toby.
They vsed but an ill order in yt obseruing of the lawes and customs of the Romaines in this poynt. For I am very well assured, that it was not the custome amongst the Romaines, to condemne and punish men, how wicked soeuer they were, but that they woulde firste heare at large A most barbarous crueltie, to condemne a man, without hering his cause.what their cause was, and what they could say for them selues. For, that it is so reasonable a thing, as that there is not so barbarous and inhumaine a nation, vntounto whō the law of nature hath not taught this rule of right, equitie, and Justice. Now, if the moste blockishe and vnciuile Nations of the woorlde vnderstoode and knew this, no doubt of it, the Romains, who had beene so greatly commended for their Iustice and other vertues, would not in this case, hauehave dealt more barbarously and vniustelye, then any other nation.
Theo.
Indeede S. Paule, soone after Acts. 16.made the Magistrates of Philippi vnderstand this matter so well, as that he put thē in great feare: and had made them throughlye felt their fault, if hee would hauehave complained on them vntounto the Romains, as they well deserued it, and as he was verye well able to hauehave done? For they, who had so The lawes infringed by such as named them selues the chiefest obseruers thereof.bragged, yt they were the great obseruers of the lawes of the Romains, and had punished such as were charged with the breache of them, should hauehave beene well aduised, before they had done any thing, not to hauehave broken those lawes, wherewith they meant to arme them selues.
And so, by the lyke reason, all Princes and Magistrates had neede bee very charye, that if they will hauehave their lawes and ordinaunces kept, not to be them selues the first breakers of them. For, although they hauehave no Superiours to correct them for it, or if their Superiours wink at them, yet will not. God suffer them goe scotfree for all that.
Indeede the Philippians had Superiours: But there was no bodye that told thē of it, because there was none which complayned vntounto them of the matter, & yet God would not let them goe vnpunyshed.
To.
And me thinketh it also very requisite, that Princes and Magistrates doe Magistrats ought to hauehave great regard t… such as are reporters and ac… cusers.not ouer lightly beeleeue all reports which are brought vntounto them, neither yet gyue ouer easie credit to such, as make shewe to be their great friendes, and to be very careful of their honour and benefite. For, there are an exceeding number of such, who doe it for none other purpose, but to flatter thē, that they might be the greater with them, & therby discredit such men as they like not of, and of whom they seeke to be auenged, by the meanes of such Princes and Magistrates. For, such then are not the best, nor the faythfullest kynde of men, but the moste slauyshe, disloyall, and moste trayterous of all others: And therefore these villaynes would be the first that shoulde beetraye them, and soonest forsake them, when as they thought to finde others els where, that they myght better serue theyr turnes.
Theo.
In very deede wee hauehave a manifest example of that which thou speakest, in these mutinous and seditious Philippians: For, how daungerously hazarded they their Magistrates, and their whole citie, to be aduenged of S. Paule and of his companyon. And who loued better the Magistrates, the Citie, and all the whole Countrey,and that were more carefull of their honour and profit, eyther these mutyneus and wicked vacabondes, who accused S. Paule and Sylas, or S. Paule & Sylas, who were accused?
Toby.
That is easilye to bee iudged. For, these deceitfull Iackes and theeues deceiued and robbed al the whole country, and cared for nothing els, but the fillyng of their purses. Where contrariwise, S. Paule and Sylas hazarded their own lyues, for the saluation of the Philippians, which was dearer to them then their owne Acts. 16.lyues.
Theo.
And as discreet as the Magistrate was, after hee had greatly wronged The common iniquitie of m… towards these … uants of God.these good seruantes of God, and knewe it well ynough: yet for all that, in steede of amending the offence which hee had committed, hee procured these holy men to be bannished the Citie and Countrey, whome he ought rather to hauehave entertayned, then any other. And kept in still the roges, that had wrongfully informed him agaynst them, and had put in daunger both theyr wealth and offyces, and the whole losse of their dominion. And where he shoulde hauehave expulsed them as vacabondes and roges, and so hauehave whipped them, he still retayned them, as good Citizens.
Thus wee see how the seruants of God are continually delt withal here in this world, and that equitie and right, that eueryevery man ought to hauehave, is not for them to be had: yea, and although they be founde innocent and guiltlesse, yet shall they hauehave much to doe, to get iustice administred vntounto them.
Againe, although the wicked be founde guiltie, yet is it out of all doubt, that some shifte or other will be made, continually to support them, and shall be sooner and better entertained and entreated, then the true …or whatcauses …e seruaunts of …od are so mi…ked of world…ges.seruaunts of God: for eueryevery man is gladde to be ridde of them. For, the world thinketh it to be ouer harde and yrkesome a thinge to liue amongst them, and that there neuer commeth any goodnesse, where they are.
Toby.
Certes, the world maketh that reckning of them, as thou hast sayde, and yet, if they did wel, they should iudge otherwise of them.
Theo.
Thou sayst truely indeede, but because the worldlinges naturally louelove vices, more then vertues, and lying, more then trueth, they deserue rather to hauehave seducers, vacabondes, theeues, and traytors, to seduce, robbe, and betray them, then the true seruauntes of God and good men, who would be faithful vntounto them, and faithfully procure their honour and benefit. And The iudgment of God against the vnthankfulnesse of men. The force of the illusion of error for the punishment o… worldlinges.therefore, if God meant not thus to punish worldlings by his iust iudgement, he would not laye the brydle in Satans and the wickedes neckes as he doth, nor yet suffer thē to be so caryed away with strong illusions and errours. For, from whence commeth it, that this Deuill, which so possessed this Philippian Sorceresse, could foretell and declare hidden and secrete thinges? he could not hauehave done this but by the permission of God, and without God, had, in his iust iudgement, giuen him this power and strength. For, it is written, that he gaue a lying spirite into the mouthes of Aachabs false Prophets, yt Achab might be deceiued 1. Kings. 22.by thē. Now, when the Lord gaue the Deuill this lycence, knew not he right well, that the Deuill therupon might by yt meane feduce? And did he not also know in what daunger he put men, in so doing?
Toby.
Why then gaue he suchlicence vntounto the Deuill?
Theo.
Forsooth, because he would by his iust iudgemēt, punish the vnthankfulnes of men, as he himself witnesseth by Moses, & Deut. 13. Rom. 1. 2. Thes. 2.S. Paule, and namely in the Epistle to the Romains, and in the second to the Thessalonians.
Toby.
That is the very cause, why many take occasion to finde fault thereat, and therby reiect all religions as vncertaine: and this is the reason, as they say, that there is such a confusion in them, as that a man cannot descerne trueth from falshood.
Theo.
But God hath well prouided for that, to preserue his chosen from these …he elect of god …e preserued …om being se…ced.daungers. And therefore, although false Christes and false Prophetes, doe great thinges thorow the power of the Deuil, by which they may easily seduce al the whole worlde, yet Iesus Christ openly declareth, that his chosen cannot be so seduced by thē, …lath. 24.but will continue in the trueth euen to the ende. For, when hee saieth, that if it were possible, the very electe should be deceiued by such men: hee doeth vsus to witte, in what …ohn. 17.saftie his were, whome his heauenly father had giuen vntounto him. But, to the end thou mightest the better vnderstand the iudgmēt The cause why …en rather fol…ow falshod then …rueth.of God in this case, thou must consider and note, that if they which are seduced by these seducers had the true feare of God before their eyes, and such a louelove in their heartes, to serue and honour him as they ought, they shoulde neuer fall into these errours, whereinto they fall. And therefore Iesus Christe rightly toucheth their disease, who reiecting the doctrine of the trueth, followe after leasinges: when as hee saieth, The doctrine is not mine, but his, who sent Iohn. 7.me. And therefore, if any man will doe his will, he shall know whether the doctrine be of God, or whether. I speake it of my selfe. His meaning in effect is this, that they which are desirous, rightly to vnderstande the will of God to obey him, shall easily also acknowledge the doctrine, by whiche God declareth to men his will, that they might thereby accordingly bee instructed. But contrariwise, they that hauehave not this affection, are alwayes finding of excuses, resting them selues alwayes vppon some false & vnsound proppes, because they hauehave no good desire to come to the right & true stay, how glorious so euer their wordes be, and howe goodlie a shewe soeuer they Hipocrisse tak… for Wised…me.make.
Tob.
Yet by your leaue Sir, there are a great many of ignorant people, and suche indeed as persecute ye truth, who neuer thelesse in all other things make a gllant shew of honestie, and to be zealous and feruent in Gods cause.
Theo.
I graunt thee as much as thou sayest, that they are good people in shewe: But yet it is out of all doubt, that, all that their wisedome, and whatsoeuer zeale they hauehave in shew, is meere hypocrisie and dissimuled deuotion. For, to aunsweare the first poynt, if they were of that sound hart, …ride and pre…mption, doe …nder the …owledge of …e truth.and in suche sorte feared GOD, as they ought, they woulde be humble and modest. For, if they were humble and modest, they woulde not so proudlye and arrogauntly, conte…mie and re…ect the good Seruauntes of God, who bring vntounto them the trueth, as they do: but wold patiently heare, & receiue them as the Angels or messengers of God. For, what a mighty number doe wee daylye see, that so presume of them selues, of their skil, wisdome and vertue, as that they think no man in the world to bee so able for their skil, to shew any better matter thē that which they the selues hauehave already brought and deliuered. And what a number also is there of suche people, as are not contented alone with the despising of the seruauntes of GOD, but likewise persecute and condemne them to death, without once hearing of thē speake? What religion thinkest thou these men to be of? Surely surely, there is no religion at alan them, but in shewe only, howsoeuer they dissemble theyr zeale towards the Church, & Christian religion. I promise thee for mine own part, I think that the greatest number of them, hauehave not What feare Pilate had … God.so great feare of God before their eyes, as Pylate had.
Tob.
Why shouldest thou say so?
Theo.
I wil tel thee, because that after the Iewes had let Pilate vnderstande, that Iohn 19.Iesus Christe hadde called him selfe the Sonne of GOD, and accused him therfore, as a Blasphemer, and woorthye of death: It was so farre off from him, that hee was thereby the more mooued to condemne Iesus Christe, as that hee was the more afearde therof, and was then more nise in the condemning of him, then he was at any time before.
Tob.
What meant he by that?
Theo.
Marke it well and thou shalte see, for although in all thinges els, Pylate was a cursed and wicked Heathen manne, yet was hee not altogether so irreligyous, but that so soone as hee hearde him speake of the name of GOD, hee was therewith mooued, and did reuerence him. And therefore, before hee woulde Iohn 19. Christians, not so religious as Pilate.goe anye further, hee agayne, farre narrowlier examyned Iesus Christ. And after he had heard him more at large, hee was a greate deale the rather desirous to deliuer him, then euer he was before.
To.
If he had continued stil in that mind, it had byn much better for him.
Theo.
That is true indeede. But because there was no true feare of GOD in him, neither yet had taken deep & good rooting in his hart, it forth with vanished cleane away, when he was pressed to the contrary, and neuer straue to withstand the crueltye of the Iewes. And yet hee shewed himself to beare more reuerence vntounto the name of GOD, then a great many of those, who would at this daye, be taken not only for Christians, but also for the very staies and pillers of the fayth. For, although they know well inough, that the causes which come before them, concerne the glory of GOD, and his Churche; yet hauehave they lesse care to giuegive iudgement and condemne them, without further enquiring, what were the best way for thē to take, making lighter account of giuing iudgement on them, then of the least cause in ye worlde, whether it were of a money matter, or of any other worldly thing whatsoeuer.
Tob.
If there were in them but that feare which they ought to hauehave, in condemning the cause of God, vnderunder the name and tytle of heresie, mee thinketh they shoulde therein, bee more circumspect and discreete. And for mine owne part, as ignoraunt & vnlearned as I am, yet I euer abhorred these fire tormentors, who so little esteemed of the liues of men, especially in such a cause.
Theo.
Truely, if thy firste reason which thou hast alleadged would not serue them, mee thinketh that the second which thou euen nowe diddest touche, might right well suffyce, for them to cast, I will not say, a little water into their Wyne, but into their fires. For to take away the liues of menne, is no small matter in the sight of the Lorde. But the offence is a great deale more haynous, when as menne for Gods cause, shall take life away from suche, as shoulde rather bee preserued, and suche also as shoulde bee in moste estimation, with Princes and Magistrates.
Thus then thou seest what an inconueuience pryde bringeth with it to those that are proude and arrogant: For, seeing they presume so muche of them selues as that they will not once vouchsafe to entertayne the seruauntes of God, and to bee taught by them, as they had neede, it is impossible for them to vnderstande the trueth, because they will at no hande vnderstande it. And contrariwise, as Iesus Christe shewed him selfe to bee the Teacher and Mayster …esus Christ is …hoolemaister … the humble, …nd not to the …oude.of the humble and meeke, euen so reiecteth he out of his Schoole, all highe inynded, proude, and presumptuous persons. And therefore hee gaue thankes to God his Father, in that he had reuealed his will and trueth vntounto the poore in spirite, …ath. 11. …saiah. 66.and hidde it from the mighty and great men of the worlde. For, there are none but the poore and meeke in spirite which are capable thereof.
And therefore, the Lorde sayeth by the Prophete Isaiah, Whom will I regarde, but onelie the afflicted, and contri…e in hearte and mynde, and him, who trembleth at my woordes? Saynt Paule also 1. Cor. 5.telleth the Corinthians, That the Lorde hath not called manye wise, stronge, riche, and honourable menne of the worlde: But the moste feeble, moste vyle, and moste contemptible. It is also written, That GOD resisteth the 1. Pet, 5.proude, and giueth grace to the humble. And therefore Saynt Paule; diligentlye admonisheth all Christians not to esteeme, nor presume ouer muche of themselues.Rom. 12. Philip. 2.
Tob.
True it is indeede, that humility and honour, seldome or neuer agree quietly together.
Theo.
That is most true. For, wheras humilitte is not, there cannot be a teacheable, and well disposed hearte to receiue doctrine and discipline: Which thing Saynt Augustine confesseth to hauehave found in him selfe by experience, saying in this S. Aug. in his …. Booke 5. Chap. of Confess.manner. I then determined to applye my mynde to the study of the holy Scriptures, that I might see what they were. And beholde, I saw a thinge that was neuer The confession of S. Aug. …s concerning the pride, whiche hindred him frō profiting in the holy scriptures.knowne to the proude, nor opened to children, but was lowly in his goyng, and verie high in his arryning, & whiche brought greate profite, and hidden secretes. And as for my selfe, I was euen suche a one, as that I was not able to make anye entraunce into it, or yet stoupe so lowe, as once to be able to put my head into ye intree therof. For I was not then of the opynion whereof I now speake, when I looked vppon this peece of Scripture, but thought it vnworthy to be compared to Tullies dignitie. For, my greate pryde coulde not away with the basenesse thereof, and therfore it fled from mee: Neyther was my wytte so sharpe, as that it was once able to pearse into it, and yet it was suche, as grewe vp amongest the basest and meanest. Howebeeit, I might hauehave vouchsafed to hauehave beene lowlie. And because I was highe mynded, I thought my selfe to be a great Clearke. Heere wee see howe Saynte Augustine confesseth, that whiles be flattered himselfe, and esteemed so much of his owne knowledge, and of the pride of his mynde, as that he continually disdayned and contemned the holy Scriptures. And although hee had a mynde oftentimes to giuegive him selfe to the studie of them, it was so farre of that he found any taste or sauour in them, as that hee founde lesse sauour in them at that time, then he did at the firste. For, hee thought them to bee nothing in respecte of the eloquence, and knowledge which hee founde in the Bookes of Tullie and of the rest of the heathen Philosophers. But, after that this his pryde was come downe and abased, and the opinion whiche he had of him selfe and of his knowledge, hee was of an opinion, cleane contrarye to his first: And then, hee right well perceyued, all humane eloquence, and Phylosophie, to be no better then bladders stuft full of wind, and of no substance in respect of the holye Scriptures: although to the outwarde apparaunce they made a farre gallanter muster and shewe. And therfore, whiles the eyes of Saynt Augustines vnderstanding were blyndfolded with ye false opinion which he had of him selfe, he had the more hoodwinked them with this pompe & false apparaunce.
Tob.
There are at this day, a greate many in the worlde, who are in the selfe There are manye, that will counterfeit S. Augustines pride, but they will not follow his humilitie.and same predicament, that Saynt Augustine was in, at that time. But I know not, whether GOD will giuegive them that grace, which he gaue vntounto him, to let them vnderstande their pride, that thereby they might be humbled, and for the false opinion which they hauehave of their eloquence, knowledge and wisedome, to acknowledge them selues to be suche fooles, and blockeheaded beastes as indeede they are, to the end they might bee made apte and Teacheable Schollers in the Schoole of the woorde of God. For, there are such a number of Poeticall braynes, & so learned in the tongues and in humayne Philosophy: that they doe not onelyonly make smal accompt of the books of the holy Scriptures, in comparison of their Heathenishe volumes: as that, which is of all other the moste vyle, they esteeme of them no better, then of the Dreames of olde doatyng fooles, and of doating olde wyues tales. And as fo…mine own part, let them hauehave as great knowledge as they will, vntill they burst withall, I wil esteem of th… no whit ye more, if they be not honest men, and hauehave the feare of God before their eyes.
Theo.
Thou touchest now a disease, which at this day raygneth more then euer it did, yea, and that amongst such as beare the name of Christians, which is the cause that we hauehave so many Libertine Atheistes, Libertine Atheists.who scorne and laughe at all Religions. And although they are not in trueth, setled in any Religion, yet forsooth they woulde not bee thought to be vtterly voyde of Religion. And therefore, because they are of no religion, they are neuerthelesse of all Religions, in what Countries soeuer they come vntounto. For, they shoote at none other marke, but temporizing, or seruing of times, with eueryevery man, a Papist amongst Papistes, an Epicure with Epicures, an Atheist, with Atheistes, and to be shorte, a Diuel amongst Diuels, for they wil not be disquieted eyther in body or mynd neyther yet hazarde eyther bodye or goodes. And therefore, they will not greatly frame themselues neyther after Iesus Christe, nor after the Pope, neyther after the Gospell, nor after the Masse, nor yet after any controuersie that is at this day for Religion amōgst Christians, without perhaps some of them sustaine some particular losse therby. For, if eyther gayne, or losse fall …ut vntounto them on eyther side, they will counterfayte zeale in that Religion whiche they thinke will bee moste for their profite, and whiche they suppose will beste agree with that, which they desire to hauehave heere in this life, as wee hauehave a manifest example, chiefly, in the Prelates and Beneficed men of the Popishe Churche. For, if they did beleeue that there were a GOD in heauen, and anye true religion, whereby their life and conuersation ought to bee gouerned, and that they shoulde render an accounte thereof in the day of Iudgement, they woulde surely, be other maner of men, then in deede they are. Howebeit, they right well shew, as wel by their doctrine, as also by their life and conuersation, that they hauehave as much mynde of God, as hauehave bruite beastes, and doe as muche esteeme of the immortality of their soules, as of the soules of their horses and moyles. And therfore, all the zeale which they hauehave to their Religion, proceedeth not from any louelove whiche they beare thereunto, but on…lye to the honours, and greate wealth whiche commeth vntounto them thereby. And therefore, when they see them selues in danger to loose thē, they eyther become manifest blacke diuels, and beginne openlye to persecute, or if they hauehave anye knowledge and eloquence, they straight way, playe the iollye Balaamites. Libertine Balaamites.For they commend themselues vntounto Antichrist to resist the trueth of God, and mainteyne his false doctrine, against their owne consciences: For, they themselues laugh him to scorne in their heartes, and doe no more beleeue him, then those against whom they oppose them selues. But I feare mee, I hauehave doone them greate wrong to compare them vntounto Balaam, because they hauehave not so muche fayth vntounto the true Religion, as Balaam hadde vntounto the Religion of the auncient Churche of GOD, neyther hauehave they so greate a regarde to God, as he had. But they are as like him in all other poyntes, as like may bee, as in desire of honours, and worldly possessions. And therfore although they are in part, black Diuels, yet are they in nature, more like vntounto white and Familiar Diuels, where, the rest shew them selues to bee altogether blacke Diuelles.
Howebeit, whatsoeuer vizers they put on, they are alwayes in trueth, very Libertine Atheistes, notwithstandyng, that they seeme outwardely the Followers of Popishe Religion. And there are others also, who are almost like them, euen of those which follow the Gospel, if they knew they might any way gayne thereby. But the most of that sort, serue in Kings and Princes Courtes. For, if Kinges and Princes fauour the Gospell, then they know, that …ibertine Courtiers.if they fauour it as he doeth, that they shal come to greater dignity, or at least, be the better and more firmely establyshed in that degree and honour wherein they stand, for, as they can court it well, so will they also be the first that shall make court to the Gospell, and will bee come fayre whyte, and familiar Diuels, amongst the very angels. But if a man shoulde iudge them by theyr woorkes, fruites, and life, what Gospell it is that they professe, it woulde be soone iudged that they are very Libertine Atheistes. For, a man shall neuer finde any reformation of life in them, which is the chief cause of the preaching of the Gospell, and the principal marke to be marked and knowen by, in those who hauehave receiued the true faith, in the true feare of GOD, and in a good conscience. And so by that meane, all their Gospel wilbe come a thing where with to scorne the Pope, his Priests, Friars, and the rest of his shorne Balaamites, and all the abuses of the Popishe Churche, and to make sporte and pleasauntly talke of them, especially in the companies of Ladies and Gentlewomen. And if the Gospel wil giuegive them any such libertye, whereby they may abuse it, into carnal lybertie, they will be sure to laye fast holde thereon: and not sticke to saye, that they are not like vntounto those superstitious hypocriticall Papistes, whom they laugh to scorne.
Howbeyt, further they will not, but as for the rest of their life, it shalbe as dissolute, as the most dissolute Papistes, from whom they differ in nothing but in this, that they hauehave put on a vizar of the Gospel, that they might therewith the better couer theyr Atheisme.
Tob.
Thou hast hitherto spoken of Libertine Atheistes, who dissemble their Atheisme, vnderunder the colour of hauinge some Religion in them, so farre foorth as it tendeth either to their commodity or discōmodity. But there are some others, who because they cānot find any such occasiō, becō as it were newters, beeing of neyther side, as thou hast oftentimes sayde. And the …bertine new…rs.chiefe men whiche marche vnderunder this Ensigne, and that are of this Bande, are they which are puffed vp with eloquence, & knowledge, and are dronken in their own wit and vnderstanding: As Saynt Augustine confessed him selfe to bee, before suche tyme as GOD had touched his heart with his holye spirite, whiche is the spyrite of humilitie. But, although Saynt Augustine presumed thus of him selfe, by reason he was of so fine and quicke witted a spirite, and of so verie a sharpe vnderstanding, and excellent knowledge in humanitie, as anye man that euer liued in his time and age: yet was there alwayes in him, some good seed of religiō. But because hee was an heathen man borne, and therefore had not from his youth beene brought vp in the woorde of God: but onelyonly in humanitie and Paganisme, and in the Religion wherein he was borne, hee could not rightly iudge of the true Religion, whiche he knewe not. And the opinion whiche hee had of himselfe, did so hinder him, as that he could not search after it, as he ought to hauehave done. And after that diuers, but especiallye his mother Monica, who was a widdowe, and became a Christian before him, a very good woman, and one that feared GOD, had exhorted and solycited him, to search after the holy Scriptures: those their exhortations stirred him vp to the reading of the Bible. Howbeit hee read it not so reuerently as he should hauehave done, but rather for fashions sake, by reason he came not appoynted with that humilytie and modestie, which afterward hee knew was meete for the disciples of the holy Ghost to come.
But when God had rebated this his pride, with the spirite of modestie and humilitie, then found he that in it, which before hee knew not how to finde in it: And by that meane, he was so much the more humbled. Howbeit, these glorious arrogant men, of whome we now speake, who thus glory of their knowledge, and skill, are euen the verye scorners and contemners of God: for they neuer shew, that euer they had the true feare of God before their eyes, nor yet any good seede of religion in them. For, there is a great many of them, who hauehave manifested them selues greater Atheists, after they had once gotten some knowledge of the gospell, then euer they had before, and since yt time, hauehave euer lesse reuerenced the worde of God. For, the knowledge which they receyued by the entertayning of the Gospell, serued them to none other vse, but to discouer the Idolatries, superstitions, and abuses, which are in the popish Church, that they might laugh at them.
And euer sithence that time, they are growen euen vntounto this, that they are almost at the like poynt with the doctrine of Christian religion. For, as S. Paul said, They iudge thereof, as the Grecians and wise …. Cor. 1.men of the world, iudged of Iesus Christe, & of his Gospel: who thought the preaching thereof to be foolishnesse, because they were carnall men, and puffed vp with an opinyon of their owne wisdomes.
And because the Grecians, were alwaies more accounted of then any of the reste of the Nations, by reason of their sharpenesse of witte, and of the knowledge which they had in the artes, in Philosophy, and in all other Letters of humanitie, S. Paule nameth them specially, although hee comprehendeth vnderunder this name, all the rest of the heathen, as well appeareth by that, that he opposeth them to the Iewes, and seperateth them also from the Christians, vntounto whome, as hee him selfe witnesseth, Iesus Christ is the true wisdome, vertue, and power of God.
Nowe, if these Libertine Epieures and Atheistes, had beene heathen borne, as S. Augustine was, or, if they had as much religion in them, being Christians borne, as hee had in his Paganisme, they shoulde neuer hauehave shewed them selues, to hauehave beene so monstrous beastes, as in deed they are. But although in name, they are Christians born, they are to be accounted of, as if they had beene borne and bredde amongst Infidelles and Paganes, yea euen amongst the Epicures, out of whose books they hauehave sucked and droonke, this prophan spirite of Athiesme, who thus caryeth thē away.
For, they hauehave yet lesse Religion in them, then euer had any of the heathen, who not onelyonly did not approue their doctrine, but which is more, manifestly, both by word and wrytinge condemned it, yea, and oftentimes executed thē by publick iustice namely at Athens. For, when God giueth vsus ouer so farre, hee then by his iust iudgement brutisheth vsus in the cause of religion. And …at it is to …ēne prayer.therefore, that we shall not neede any more to pray vntounto him, to beseech him, enlighten vsus with his holy spirite, in the knowledge of his holy word.
But, ouer and besides, that Dauid, and S. Peter, calleth the holy Ghost, the word …il. 19. 119. … Pet. 1. …hn. 16. …al. 16. …sal. 50. …lat. 7. 18.of the Lorde, a candle and lanterne which lightneth a darke place, and doth enlighten the simple, yet there is onething more in it, which the Lord hath promised, that he will heare as manye as shall call vppon him in trueth, be neere them, and graunt them his holy spirit.
Toby.
This then is the effect of thy conclusion, that proud men, and such as call not vponupon the Lord as they ought, for their instruction in the knowledge of his holye The iugdme…t of God against the …ontempt and …hating of his word.will, hauehave no great good lyking to serue him accordingly. And because they hauehave no such louelove and lyking: but contrariwise will liue as pleaseth them, God, in his iust iudgement giueth them ouer into a reprobate sence, and leaueth them as a spoyle vntounto seducers, and false teachers. Wherefore, they alwayes receyue and allowe rather falshood and errour, then the trueth of the Lord.
Theo.
Indeede, because they had no louelove nor liking of the trueth, but rather of leasinges, the Lord by his iust vengeaunce, hath giuen a mighty power of errour vntounto such maisters as they hauehave a lyking of, and such as they are best worthy of. And therfore when Moses admonished the people Deut. 13.of Israel, that they shoulde bew…re of false Prophetes, who might deceyue them, hee namely sayde, that the Lorde would tempt his people by false Prophetes, who shoulde make great shewes of trueth: and he would doe it to this end, to proue whether his people feared and loued him with al their hart, or not.
Wherein he manifestly declareth, that they which had the true feare of God before them, and loued him indecde, would neuer receiue the false Prophetes, and cast off the A preseruatiue against errors.law, & word of God, but alwayes continue in the doctrine, which the Lord God had reuealed vntounto them from heauen.
Toby.
I thank thee, I now very wel vnderstand this poynt, and the cause also, why the deuill eueryevery manner of way, hath so great power ouer vsus, as he hath. Moreouer, although we hauehave already spoken of many that are haunted with Deuilles, yet Lunatique, …if, dumb, and …nd Demoni…ques. …at. 12. 17. …ark. 9. …uk. 11.hauehave wee not all this while spoken anye whit of the Lunatique, deafe, dumb, and blynde Demoniacques.
Theo.
It is no great matter: For we will treate of them, when thou shalt thinke it best.
The Tytle and effect of the fift Dialogue, of the world possessed with Deuils.
THis fifte Dialogue is called, the dialogue of Lunatique Deuilles: because the chiefe matter contained therein, treateth of a Lunatique Demoniacque, of whom the Euangelists make mention, and of such as may be compared to the same. And beecause there were many accidentes, which fell out vntounto this Demoniacque, somewhat is also sayde, of deafe, dumbe, and blinde Demoniacques, and howe Iesus Christ healed them.
What grace God graunteth to men, by the preaching of the Gospell.
In what a dangerous estate they are, which are depriued of the Gospell.
Of the Prophecies, of the hardening and blynding of their hearts, which contemne the word of God.
What power the Deuill hath ouer younge children, and what be the causes therof, and of Originall sinne.
What occasions the Deuil taketh at the infirmities of men, thereby to hurt them.
Of those meanes, by which wee giuegive the Deuill libertie to hauehave accesse vntounto vsus.
Howe the Aungelles were conuerted into Deuils.
Of Lunatique fooles.
Of the wicked Spirite which tormented Saule.
Of the vengeaunce of God, vponupon the mightie men of the world.
Of such as follow Saules ill conditions, and which sinne against their owne consciences.
Of such as the Deuill casteth into the fier, and into the water.
Of the woman possessed of a Spirite, which stale money, by supping vp of it.
Of the reigne of God Mammon heere in this world.