Answer to Thomas More — William Tyndale

Answer to Thomas More · William Tyndale

Master Mores fourth boke.

CHristes church hath the true M. Moredoctrine all redy / ād y^• selfe same y^t. S. Paul wold not geue an angel audiēce vn to y^e contrary. T. but y^• popis church Tindale More.wil not heare y^t doctrine. M. confirmed with soch a multitude ot miracles and so moch bloud of marters / & comē cōsent of al christēdome. T. who shewed a miracle to cōfirme his {pre}achynge of eare Tindalecōfessiō & pardōs with like pedelery? or who shed his bloude for thē? I cā shew you many thousādes y^t ye hauehave slayne for preachynge y^• cōtrary. And againe grecia y^• one halfe of christēdome cōsēteth not vn to thē / which grekes if soch thīges had come frō y^• apostles shulde hauehave had thē ere ye M. y^• spiritualte be not so tēder eared / but y^t More Tindalethey maye heare their sīnes rebuked. T. they cōsēt not vn to y^e waye of trueth / but sine of malice & of {pro}fessiō. And therfore as they hauehave no power to repēt / euē so cā they not but {per}secute both hī y^t rebuketh thē & his doctrine to / after y^e ensāples of y^e phareses & al tirātes y^t begōne before / namely if y^t preacher twich any groūde wherby they shuld be reformed or by what meanes they maynetene their inisheue.

ii. chapter

M. A freres liuīge y^t hath maried a nūne maketh M. More Tindale.it easye to know y^t his doctrine is not good. T. y^• {pro}fessiō of ether other is playne idolatrie / & disceauīge of a mās soule & robbynge him of his good / & takē vppō thē ignoraūtly therto. wherfore whē they become vn to y^e knowlege of y^• trouth / they ought no lēger therī to abide. but Popey^• popis forbiddīge matrimonie & to eate of meates created of god for mānes vse which is deuellish doctrīe by paulis {pro}phesis / his geuēge licēce … hold whores / his continuall occupiēge of princes in shedynge of christē bloude / his robbynge of y^e pore thorow out christēdom of al y^t was geuen to mayntene them / his settynge vpp in rome a stuees not of wemen only / but of the male kynd also agenst nature and a thousand abhominacions to grosse for a turke / are tokēs good vnough that he is the right antichrist and his doctrine spronge of the devell.

M. in penaunce marten saith there neadeth M. More Tindaleno contricion ner satisfaccion. T. call it repentaunce and then it is contricion of it selfe. And as for mendesmakynge with worldely thinges / y^t doo to thi brother whom thou hast offended / & vn to god offer the repentaunce of thine herte and the satisfaccion of christes bloude.

M. tyndale saith that the confessoure vttureth M. Morethe confessions of them that be rich. But yet we se that both rich ād pore kepe hores opēly Tindale.with out payenge peny. T. if they be very rich they be sofered / because they maye be good defenders of the spiritualtie / and if they be very pore / because they hauehave no money to paye or else they fine with one or other secretly

M. vppon that lye tindale bildeth the destruction M. More Tindaleof the sacramēt of penaunce. T. sacramēt is a signe signifienge what I shuld doo or beleue or both. As baptim is the signe of repentaūce signifienge that I must repent of euel and beleue to be saued therfrom by the bloude of christe. Now Sir in youre penaunce describe vsus which is the signe and the outwarde sacrament & what is the thynge that I must do or beleue. ād then we will enserth whether it maye be a sacrament or no.

M. tindale sayth that confession is the worst inuencion that euer was. T. as ye facion it meane More TindaleI / & of that filthy priapish confession which Eare cōfessiō destroyeth the benefite of Christes bloud.ye spew in the eare wherwithe ye exclude y^e forgeuenesse that is in christes bloude for al that repent and beleue therin / and make the people beleue that their sinnes be neuer forgeuen vntyll they be schryuen vn to the preste / ād then for no nother cause saue that they hauehave there told thē and for the holy dedes to come which the confessoure hath enioyned them moare profitable ofte tymes for him selfe then any man elseMore Tindale.

M neuer man had grace to spie that before tyndale T. yes very many. For many nacions neuer receaued it. And the grekes whē they had proued it and sawe the bawdery that folowed of it / put it downe agayne. For which cause ād to know al secretes and to leade the consciēces captiue / the pope falsly maynteneth it.More Tindale Repētāce

M. what frute wold then come of penaunce T. of youre iugglynge terme penaūce I cānot affirme. But of repētaunce wold come this frute / that noman that had it / shuld synne willyngely / but eueryevery man shuld continually fight agenst his fleshe.

M. He teacheth that the sacrament hath no vertu at all / but the faith only. T. the faith of a More Tindale. sacramētrepentynge soule in Christes bloude doeth iustifie only. And the sacrament stondeth in as good sted as a lyuely preacher. And as the preacher iustifyeth me not / but my fayth in the doctryne: euen so the signe iustifieth not / but the faith in the promise which the sacrament signifieth and preacheth. And to preach is al the vertue of the sacrament. And where the sacramentes preach not / there they hauehave no vertue at all. And sir we teach not as ye doo / to beleue in the sacrament or in holy church / but to beleue the sacrament and holy church.

M. He teacheth that fayth sufficeth vn to More. Fayth Tindalesaluacion with out good werkes. T. the scripture sayth / that assone as a man repenteth of evel and beleueth in Christes bloude / he obteyneth mercye imediatly / because he shuld louelove god ād of that louelove doo good werkes / & that he tarieth not in synne styll tyll he hauehave done god werkes / & then is first forgeuen for his werkes sake / as the pope beareth his in hande / excludynge the vertue of christes bloude. For a mā must be first reconsyled vn to god by Christ and in gods fauoure / yer his werkes can be good & pleasaunt in the sight of god. But we saye not as some dānablye lye on vsus / that we shuld doo euell to be iustified by fayth / as thou maist se in the third of the romanes how they said of the appostles for like preachinge.

M. He calleth it sacrilege to please god with More. workes. Tindalegood werkes. T. to refer the werke vn to the person of god to by out thy synne therwith / is to make an Idole of god or a creature. But if thou referre thy werke vn to thy neyboures profitt or tamynge of thine awne flesh / thē thou pleasest god therwith.

M. Item that a man can doo no good werke. T. it is false. But he sayth a man can doo no More. Tindalegood werke tyll he beleue that his synnes be forgeuen him in Christe and tyll he louelove gods law and hauehave obtayned grace to worke with. And then saith he that we can not doo oure werkes so perfectely / by the reason of our corrupte flesh but that there is some imperfectenesse therin / as in the werkes of them that be not their craftes master. Vvhych is yet not rekened / because they doo their good willes and be scolars and goo to scole to lerne to doo better₊

M. Item that the good and rightewesse mā More. Synne Tindalesynneth all waye in doynge well. T. in all his werkes there lacketh some what and is a faute vntyll he doo them wyth as greate louelove vn to his neyboure as Christ did for him and as longe as there is moare resistence in his flesh then was in Christes / or lesse hope in god: and then no lenger₊

M. Item that no synne damneth a man saue More. vnbeleffe. Tindalevnbeleffe. T. whatsoeuer a man hath done / if he repent and beleue in Christe / it is him forgeuen. And so it foloweth that no synne damneth saue there where there is no beleffe.

M. Item that we hauehave no frewyll to doo More. frewyllought therwith / though the grace of god be ioyned therto / and that god doeth all in vsus both good and bad and we doo but sofre as waxe Tindaledoeth of the werke man. T. first when he affermeth that we saye / our wyll is not fre to doo good and to helpe to compell the membres / whē god hath geuen vsus grace to louelove his lawes / is false. But we saye that we hauehave no frewyll to captiuat our wittes and vnderstondynge / for to beleue the pope in whatsoeuer he saith with out reason geuinge / when we find in the scripture contrary testimonie / and se in him so greate falshed and dedes so abhominable and therto all y^• signes by whych the scripture teacheth vsus to know antichriste.

And we affirme that we hauehave no frewyll to we hauehave no frewyl to preuent grace and {pre}pare oure seluespreuēt god & his grace & before grace prepare oure selues therto / nether can we cōsent vn to god before grace become. For vntill god hauehave preuēted vsus & powred y^• spirite of his grace in to our soules / to louelove his lawes / and hath grauen them in oure hertes by the outwarde mynistracyon of his true preacher and in warde workynge off his spirite or by insperacion only / we know not god as he is to be knowē ner fele the goodnesse or any swetnesse in his law. How then can we consent therto? Saith not the texte / that we can doo no good while we be euell and they which seke glorie and to clime in honoure a boue theyr Mat. 12brethern can not beleue the trueth / and that hores theues murtherars extorcionars and such like Ioan 5.hauehave no parte in the kyngdome of god ād christe ner any felynge therof? And who shall take 1. Cor. 6.those diseases from thē? God only thorow his merciemercy / for they can not put of that complexion of them selues / vntyll they be taught to beleue and to fele that yt ys damnable and to consent vntounto the contrary liuynge₊

And vntounto the seconde part I answere / y^t in respecte of god we doo but sofre only and receaue Ioan. 19.power to doo all oure dedes whether we doo good or bad / as christ answered Pilat / that he coude hauehave no power agēst him except it were geuen him from a boue and no moare coude Iudas nether. But in respecte of y^e thinge wherin or wherwith we worke ād sheade out agayne the power that we hauehave receaued / we worke actually. As y^e axe doeth nothinge in respecte of y^e hand that heweth / saue receaue: but in respecte of the tre that is cutte / it worketh actually and powreth out againe the power that it hath receaued₊

M. Item that god is auctor of good & euell: Moreas wel of the euel will of Iudas in betrayenge christe / as of the goodwill of christ in soferynge Tindale.his passion. T. the power where wyth we doo good and euell is of god and the will is of god. As the power which the murtherar ab vseth ād wherwith he killeth a man vnright wesly is off God and the will where with he willeth it. but the wekednesse of his will ād crokednesse or frowardnesse where with he sleeth vnrightwesly / to auenge him selfe and to satisfie his awne lustes / and the cause whi he knoweth not the law of god ād consenteth not to it / which law shuld hauehave informed his will and corrected the crokednesse therof and hauehave taught hym to vse hys will and his power right / is his blindnesses faute only ād not gods. which blindnesse the deuell hath poysoned him with

M. Item matrimonie is no sacrament. T. More Matrimonye TindaleMatrimonie is a similitude of the kyngdome of heuen / as are many thynges mo / like as it appereth by christ in the gospell. But who institute it to be a sacrament? Or who at hys mariage was taught the sygnificacion of it? Vvho was euer bounde to receaue yt in the name of a sacrament. I wold to christes bloude that ye wold make a sacrament of yt vn to all men and wemen that be maried and vn to all other / and wold at eueryevery mariage teach the people to know the benefyte off christ thorow the similitude off matrimonye. And I affirme that in the popis church there ys no sacrament. For where no significacion is / there ys no sacramēt A signe ys no sygne vn to him that vnderstondeth nought therby: as a speche is no speche vn to hym that vnderstondeth it not. I wold too christes passyon that ye wold let them be sacramentes whych christ institute and ordeyned for sacramentes. And then yff ye make of youre awne braynes, v. hundred therto I wolde not be so greatly greued / though I wold not geue my consent vntounto so greate a multitude / partely for the bondage / and specially lest we shuld in time to come / the significacions of them lost / fall in to Idolatrie agayne and make holy werkes of them / after the ensample off the blyndnesse wherin we be nowe / but I wold hauehave the worde euer liuely preached out of the playne texte₊

M. Item that all holy orders be but mennes More Orders Tindalemuencion. T. the office of an apostle / bisshope / prest / deacon / and wedowe / are of god: But as cōcerninge the shauinge / the oylenge and dyuersite of rayment and many degrees sens added therto / proue that they be not mens tradycions. But and ye wyll make sacramētes of the oylynge / shauynge / sherynge / and garmentes / put theyr significacions vn to them and let the kynges grace compell them to kepe them and I admitte them for sacramentes / and vntyll that tyme I hold them for the false signes of ypocrites₊

M. Item that eueryevery man and woman is a preit and maye consecrat the body of christe. T. More Tindale consecratin bodyly seruice if y^e officer appoynted be awaye / eueryevery other person not only maye / but also is bounde to helpe at nede / euen so moch as his neyboures dogge. How moch moare thē ought men to assiste one a nother in the health of their soules / at all tymes of nede? yf the man be awaye / the woman maye and is bounde to baptise in tyme of nede / by the lawe of louelove / which offyce perteyneth vntounto the prest only. yf she be lady ouer y^• greatest ordeined by god / y^t she maie baptise / why shulde she not hauehave power also ouer the lesse / to ministre y^e ceremonies which the pope hath added to / as his oyle / his salt / his spitell his candel and cresomcloth? And whi might she not praye all the prayars / except that Idole the pope be greater then the very god? yf wemen had brought a child to church and while the prest and other mē taried the childe were in ieoperdy / might they not baptise him in the font / if there were no nother water by? And if other water were by / yet if that holpe better one mite / louelove requireth to baptise him therein. And then why might not wemen twich all their other oyle? If a woman lerned in christe were dreuen vn to an Ile where christ was neuer preached / might she not there preach and teach to ministre the sacramentes and make officers? The case is possible / shew thē what shuld let that she might not? louelove thy neyboure as thy selfe doeth compel. Nay / she maye not consecrat. whi? If the pope loued vsus as well as christ / he wold finde no faulte therwyth / though a woman at nede ministred that sacrament yf yt be so necessary as ye make it. In bodily welth / he that wold hauehave me one ace lesse then hym selfe / loueth me not as wel as him selfe how moch moare ought we to louelove one another in thynges pertaynynge vn to the soule?

M. Item that the host ys no sacryfyce. T. christ is no moare kylled. It is therfore y^• sacramēt▪ More Sacrifice Tindalesigne and memoriall of that sacrifice wherewyth chryste offered hys body for oure synnes and commaunded saynge / thys doo in the remembraunce off me. we be not holpe with any visible dede that the prest there doeth / saue in y^• it putteth vsus in remembraūce of christes deeth and passion for oure synnes. As the garmētes and straunge holy gestures / helpe vsus not / but in that they putt vsus in remembraunce of thinges that Christ sofered for vsus in his passion. Euen so the shewenge breakynge and eatynge of the host / the shewenge and drinkynge of the cuppe of Christes bloude / and the wordes and the consecracion / helpe vsus not a pinne ner ar gods serues / saue only in that they stere op oure repentynge faith to call to mynde the deeth and passion of christ for our synnes And therfore to call it a sacrifice / is but abused speach / as when we An ensample.call one that is new come home to breakefast & sett a capon before him and saye / this is youre wellcome home / meanynge yet by that speach / y^t it is but a signe of the louelove of mine herte which reioyseth and is glad that he is come home saffe and sounde. And euē so is this but the memoriall of the very sacrifice of christ once done for all. And if ye wold no nother wyse meane / ye shall hauehave my good wyll to call it so styll / or iff ye can shewe me a reason of some other meaninge. And therfore I wold that it had bene called (as it in dede is and as it was commaunded to Christes memoriall Masse.be) Christes memoriall / though that I doute not but that it was called masse of this Ebrue worde Misach / whych signifieth a perisiongenynge / because that at eueryevery masse men gaue eueryevery man a porciō accordynge vn to his power vn to the sustentacion of y^• pore. which offerynge yet remayneth. But to a false vse and profyt of them that hauehave to moch / as all other thynges are peruerted.

Fynally it is the same thynge that it was when Christ institute it / at his last soper. If it were then the very sacrificinge of Christes body / and had that same vertue and power wyth it that his very passion after wrought / whi was he sacrificed so cruelly on the morow and not hold excused therwith / seinge he was there verely sacrificed?

M. Item that there remayneth bred and wine More. bred Tindalein the sacrament. T. improue it. what is that that is brokē and that the prest eateth with his teth / ayre only? if a child were fed with no nother fode he shuld wax haply as longe as his father. where of then shuld his body / his flesh ād bones growe? where of shuld that come (wyth reuerēce I speake it) that he pisseth ād soforth? all by miracle wyll they saye. O what wonderfull miracles must we fayne to saue antichristes doctrine / I might with as good reason saye y^t the hoste is nether rounde ner white / But that as my mouth is disceaued in y^e tast of bred / euen so myne eyes ar in the syght of roundnesse and so is there nothynge at all. whych all are but y^• disputacions of mē with corrupte myndes without spirite to iudge. Neuer the later when the prest hath once rehersed the testament of our sauioure theron. I loke not on bred and wine / but on the body of Christ brokē and bloud shed for my synnes / and by that fayth am I saued from the damnacion of my synnes. Nether come I to masse for any other purpose then to fett forgeuenesse for Christes deethes sake / ner for any other purpose saye I confiteor and knowlege my synnes at the begynnynge of masse. And iff ye hauehave other doctrine teach vsus a reason & lead vsus in light and we wyll folowe. Christ sayth Ihon. Ioans. 6.vj. it is the spirite that quikeneth / the flesh profiteth nothynge at all / the wordes whych I speake sayth he / ar spirite and life. That is / the fleshly eatynge and drinkynge of Christes body and bloud profit not / as his carnall presens profited not / by the reason of his presens only as ye se by Iudas and the phareses and y^• sowdiours that twiched him / and how his bodyly presens did lett the disciples to vnderstonde spiritually. But to eate and drinke in the spirite / y^t is / to herken vn to his wordes and with a repētynge hert to beleue in his deeth / bryngeth vsus all that Christ can doo for vsus₊

M. Item that the masse auayleth no mā but More. Masse Tindalethe preest. T. if ye speake of the prayars / his prayars helpe vsus as moch as oures him. If ye speake of the sacrament / it helpeth as many as be {pre}sent as moch as him / if moued therby they beleue in Christes deeth as well as he. If they be absent / the sacrament profiteth them as moch as a sermon made in the church helpeth them that be in the feldes. And how profiteth it the soules of the deed tell me vn to whom it is no signe?

If ye meane the carnall eatynge and drinkynge / then it profiteth the prest only / for he eateth and drinketh vpp all allone and geueth no man parte with him.

M. Item that a man shuld not be howseled tyll he laye a dyenge. T. That is to shamelesse More. Tindalea lye.

M. Item that men and wemen shuld not spare to twich it. T. a perelous case. why? because More. Twich Tindalethe pope hath not oyled them. Neverthelesse Christ hath annoynted them with his spirite & with his bloude. But wot ye why? The pope thynketh if they shuld be to busy ī hādelynge it / they wold beleue that there were bred / and for y^• cause to strength their feythes / he hath imagened lytle prety thinne manchetes that shynne thorowe and seme moare like to be made of paper or fine parchement then of wheten floure. Aboute which was no smal questiō in oxforde of late dayes / whether it were bred or none: some affirminge y^t the floure with longe lyēge in water was turned to starch & had lost his nature. M. Item that the sacrament shuld not be worspeped. More. worshepe. TindaleT. It is the sacramēt of Christes body & bloud. And Christ calleth it the new & euer lastynge testamēt in his bloude & commaunded y^t we shuld so doo in the remēbraunce of him / that his body was broken & his bloud shed for our synnes. And Paule cōmaundeth therby to shew or preach the lordes deeth. They saye not praye to it / nether put any fayth therin. For I maye not beleue in the sacrament / but I must beleue the sacrament / that it is a true signe and it true that is signified therby (which is the onlye worshuppnge of the sacrament / if ye geue it other worshuppe ye playnlye dishonoure it) As I maye not beleue in Christes church / but beleue christes church / that the doctrine which they preach of christe is true. If ye hauehave any other doctrine / teach vsus a reason and lead vsus in light / and we wyll folow₊

M. Item that a christen is not bounde to kepe any lawe made by man or any at all. T. More. Tindaleyou saye vntrulye: a Christen man is bounde to obey tiranny if it be not agenst his faith ner the lawe of god / vntyll god delyuer him therof. But he is no christen man that byndeth hym to any thynge saue that whych louelove ād his neyboures necessite requireth of them.

And when a law made / is no lenger profitable / christen rulars ought to breake it. But now adayes when tyrantes hauehave gotten the simpell pleople vnderunder / they compell them to serue their lustes and wily tiranny / with out respecte of any comen welth. Vvhych wily tiranny / because the trueth rebuketh it / is the cause why they persecute it / lest the comen people seynge how good they shulde be and felynge how weked they are / shuld wythdraw their neckes frō their vnrightwesse yocke. As ye hauehave ensample in Herode / in the scribes and Phareses and in many other₊

M. Item that there is no purgatory. T. beleue More. Purgatorie. Tindale More soules slepe Tindalein Christ and thou thou shalt shortely finde purgatoryes ynow / as ye now make other fele.

M. Item that all soules lye and slepe tyll domes daye. T. and ye in puttynge them in heuen hell and purgatory / destroye the argumētes wherewith Christ and paule proue y^e resurrecciō. Vvhat god doeth with them / y^t shall we know when we come to them. The true fayth putreth the resurreccion which we be warned to lokefore eueryevery houre. The hethen philosophoures denyenge that / did put that the soules did euer liue. And the pope ioyneth the spirituall doctrine of christe and y^• fleshly doctrine of philosophers to gether / thynges so contrary that they cā not agre / no moare then the spirite and the flesh do in a Christen man. And because the fleshly mynded wpe consenteth vn to hathen doctrine / therfore he corrupteth the scripture to stablish it. Moses sayth in Deute / the secret thynges perteyne vn to the lorde / and the thynges that be Deu. 29.opened pertayne vn to vsus / that we doo all that is written in the boke. Vvherfore Sir if we loued the lawes of god and wold occupye our selues to fulfill them / and wolde on the other syde be meke and lett god alone with his secretes ād sofre him to be wiser thē we / we shuld make none article of y^e faith of this or y^t. And agayne / if the soules be in heuen / tell me whi they be not in as good case as the āgelles be? And thē what cause is there of the resurreccion?

M. Item no man shall praye to sayntes. T. More. Sayntes. Tindale More. Tindalewhen ye speake with saintes that be departed / it is not euell to put them in remēbraunce to praye for you. M. whi doo they not heare vsus? T if they louelove you so feruently and be so greate with god / whi certifie they you not / that they so doo? M. so they doo in that we fele oure peticions graunted. T. God saued the old Idolatres More Tindalewith worldly saluacion and gaue them their peticions / which they yet axed of their Idoles / as ye se thorow out al the old testament. God heareth the crowes / foules / beestes and wormes of the erth / as the texte saith / men ād beestes doeth god saue / which bestes yet praye not to god. The Iewes and turkes doeth god saue in this worlde and geueth them their worldly peticiōs. which yet worshepe not god / as his godly nature is to be worsheped but aftir their awne imaginacion: not in the spirite with faith hope and louelove / but with bodyly seruice as the pope doeth. As the popish serue. S. Appoline for the tothache and ar healed: euen so the Iewes and turkes be healed and pray not to hir / but serue god aftir a nother maner for the same disease. So that God doeth saue in this worlde all that kepe the worldely lawes worldly / that is to wite / outwarde in the body for bodyly rewarde and not in the herte of louelove that springeth out of the mercy that God hath geuē vsus in christe which same / though they be turkes / if they breake the worldly lawes / he rebuketh them / as the niniuites and punisheth them diuersly. And if they knowlege their synne and mende / he healeth them agayne. But and if they harden and synne as beestes and will not amend / he destroyeth them vtterly / as the sodomites. And yet all soch hauehave no parte in the life to come

But with his children in whose hertes he writeth y^• faith of his sonne Iesus & the louelove of his lawes / he goeth other wise to werke▪ his lawes is their wil: & their peticions are his honoure and their neyboures welth: and that he will prouide them of al thinges necessarie vn to this life and gouern them that their hertes be not ouercome of euell. And he heareth them vntounto his honoure and their euerlastynge saluacion / and purgeth them ād teacheth them thinges wherof the popish and all they whose hertes the god of this world hath blynded to scrue god with workes hauehave no fealynge. ☞

And when he saith that the emproure and Imagesthat counsell which decreed that imeges for the abuse shuld be put out of the church / were heretikes / it is moch easier so to saye than so to proue. Vnderstōd there fore / that images were not yet receaved in the church in the tyme of. S. Hierom / at the least waye generally / whether in Hieromesome one place or no I cā not tell. For. s. Hierome reherseth of one Epiphanius a bisshope in y^• contre of Cipirce and that the most perfecte of al the bissopes of his tyme / how that the sayd Epiphanius and the bissope of Ierusalē went to gether to bethel / and by the waye they entred in to a church for to praye and there found a vayle hangynge before the dore and an image: paynted theron / as it had bene of christ or some saint. For the bisshope was so moued ther with / because saith Saint Hierom / that it was contrary to the scripture / that he cutte it ād counseled Epiphanius cutte the imageto bury some dede therin and sent a nother cloth to hange in the sted. And aftirward when they ware crepte in a litle and litle: there was no worshepynge of them / at the least waye generally vntyll the tyme of. S. Gregory.

In so moch that when Cirenus the bisshope of Masilia offended with the supersticiousnesse of the people burnt them / Saynt Gregory Gregorye Cirenuswrote that he shuld not destroy the images / but teach only that the people shuld not worshepe them. But when it was so ferre come that the people worsheped them with a false faith (as we now know no nother vse) and were no longer memorials only / then the bisshopes of grece and the emproure gathered them A councell gathered in grecia did put doune all imagesto gether / to prouide a remedye agenst that misheue and conciuded that they shuld be put doune for the abuse / thinkynge it so most expedient / hauinge for them / first the ensample of God whom a man maye boldely folowe / which commaunded in the beginnynge of all his preceptes / that there shuld be no image vsed to worshepe or pray before / not for the image it selfe / but for the wekenesse of his people: and hauinge agayne before theyr eyes / that the people were fallen vn to Idolatrie and imageseruinge by the reason of them.

Now answere me / by what reasō canst thou make an heretike of him / that concludeth nought agenst god / but worketh with god and putteth that blocke out of the waye / where at his brother the price of christes bloud stombleth ād loseth his soule. They put not doune the images for hate of god and of his saintes / no moare then Ezechias brake the brasen serpent for Ezechiasenuye of the greate miracle that was wrought by it / or in spite of god that commaunded it to be kepte for a memoriall. But to kepe the people in the true faith only. Now seinge we maye be all with out images and to put them doune is not agenst Gods commaundement but with it / namely if they be abused / to the dishonoure of god and hurt of oure neybours / where is charite / if thou which knowest the trouth and caust vse thine image well / wilt not yet forbere thine image and sofre it to be put out of the waye / for thy weake brothers sake whom thou seist perish therthorow? ye and what thynge maketh both the turke and the Iew abhorre our faith so moch as our image seruice? But the pope was then glad to fynde an occasion to picke a quarell with the emproure / to gett the empire in to his awne handes which thynge he brought to passe with the swerd of fraunce and clame so hye y^t euersens he hath put his awne auctorite in stede of gods worde in eueryevery generall counsell & hath concluded what him liste / as agēst al gods worde and agenst al charite he condemned that blessed dede of that counsell and emproure

M. they blaspheme our lady and all saintes. More. oure lady. Tindale.T. that is vntrue. we honoure our blessed lady and all holy saintes and folow their faith and liuynge vn to the vttemost of oure power and submitte our selues to be scolars of the same scole.

M. they maye not abyde salue regina. T. for More Salue regina Tindaletherin is moch blasphemie vntounto our blessed lady / because christ is our hope and life only and not she. And ye in asscribynge vn to hir that she is not / dishonoure god and worshepe hir not.

M. they saye if a woman beinge aliue beleue More.in god and louelove him as moch as our lady / she maye helpe with hir prayars as moch as our lady. T. tel whi not. Christ when it was told him Tindalethat his mother and his brethern sought him / answered / that his mother / his sisters and his Mat. 12.brethern were al they that did his fathers wyll. And vn to the woman that saide to christ / blessed be the wombe that bare the and pappes y^t gaue the sucke / christ answered / Naye blessed are they that heare the worde of god and kepe it. Luce. 11.As paul saith. 1. Corin. ix. I hauehave nought to reioyse though I preach / for necessite lieth vppon me / and wo is me / if I preach not. If I doo it vnwillyngly / an office is committed vn to me / but and if I do it with a good wil / then I hauehave a rewarde. So now carnall bearynge of christ and carnall geuynge him sucke make not our lady greate. But our blessed ladies greatnesse is hir faith and louelove wherin she exceaded other. wherefore if God gaue his mercy that a nother woman were in those .ij. poyntes equall with hir / whi were she not like greate and hir prayers as moch herde. ☞

M. Item that men shuld not worshepe the More Crosse Tindaleholy crosse. T. wyth no false worshepe and supersticious fayth / but as I hauehave said / to hauehave it in reuerence for the memoriall of him that died theron.

M. Item Luther hateth the festes of the crosse More. Tindaleand of corpus Christi. T. not for enuy of the crosse whych synned not in the deeth of Christ ner of malice towarde the blessed body of christ but for the ydolatrye vsed in those festes.

M. Item that no man or woman is bounde More. Vowe Tindaleto kepe any vowe. T. lawfull vowes ar to be kepte vntyll necessite breake them. But vnlawfull vowes ar to be broken immediatly₊

M. Marten appelled vn to the nexte generall More. Marten Tindalecounsell that shuld be gathered in the holy gost / to seke a longe delaye. T. of a trouth that were a longe delaye. For shuld Martē liue / tyll the pope wold gather a counsell in the holy gost or for any godly purpose / he were like to be for eueryevery here of his heed a thousand yeres olde₊

Then bryngeth he in the inconstauncie of Martē / because he saith in his later boke / how Marteny^t he seith further then in his firste. Paraduenture / he is kynne to oure doctours whych whē with preachynge agenst pluralities they hauehave gotte them .iij. or .iiij. benefices / allege the same excuse. But yet to saye the truth the very appostles of Christ lerned not all trouth in one daye. For longe after the ascencion they wist not y^t the hethen shuld be receaued vn to the faith. How then coude Marten (brought vppe in the blyndnesse of youre secte aboue .xl. yeres) spie out all youre falshed in one daye₊

M. Marten offered at wormes before y^• emproure Moreand all the lordes of germanye / to abyde by his boke & to dispute / which he might well doo / sith he had his safe conducte that he shuld hauehave no bodyly harme. T. o mercifull god / how fome ye out youre awne shame? ye can not dispute excepte ye hauehave a mā in youre awne daunger Tindaleto doo him bodyly harme / to diote him aftir youre facion / to tormente him and to murther him. yf ye might hauehave had him at youre pleasure / ye wold hauehave disputed wyth him: first wyth sophistrie and corruptynge the scripture: then with offerynge him promocions: then with the ☜swerde. So that ye wold hauehave bene sure / to hauehave ouercome him with one argument or other₊

M. He wold agre on no Iugdes. T. Vvhat More Marten Tindaleiudges offered ye him / saue blynde bisshopes & cardenales / enimies of all trouth / whose promocions and dignites they feare to be plucked frō them / if the trouth came to light / or soch Iudases as they had corrupte with money to mayntene their secte? The appostles might hauehave admitted as well the hethen bisshopes of Idoles to hauehave bene their iudges as he them. But he offered you autenticke scripture and the hertes of y^• whole worlde. Vvhych .ij. iudges / iffye had good consciences and trust in god / ye wold not hauehave refused₊

iiij.

THe fourth chapter is not the first poetrie that he hath fayned₊

v.

IN the ende of the fifte he vntrulye reporteth / that Marten saith / no man is bound to kepe any vowe. Lawfull promises arte to be kepte and vnlawfull broken₊

IN the beginnenge of the .vi. he discrybeth marten aftir the ensample of his a awne nature / as in other places he discribeth god aftir the cōplexion of popes cardenals and worldly tirantes

M. Marten will abyde but by the scripture More. Marten Tindaleonly. T. and ye will come at no scripture only: And as for the old doctours ye wyll heare as litle / saue where it pleaseth you / for all youre crienge / old holy fathers. For tel me this / whi hauehave ye in englonde condēned the vnion of doctours Vnionbut because ye wold not hauehave youre falshed disclosed by the doctrine of them.

M. they saye / that a christen man is discharged More.of al lawes spirituall and temperall saue y^• Tindalegospell. T. ye iugle / we saye y^t no christen man ought to bynde his brother violently / vn to any lawe wher of he coude not geue a reason out of How ferre a christen mā is boūde to suffrechristes doctrine ād out of the lawe of louelove. And on the other syde we saye / that a christē man is called to sofre wronge and tiranny (though no man ought to bynde him) vntill god rid vsus therof: so fer yet as the tiranny is not directly agēst the law of god and faith of Christe / and no further.

M. marten was the cause of the destruccion of the vplondish people of germanie. T. that is More Tindalefalse for thē he coude not hauehave escaped him selfe Marten was as moch the cause of their cōfusion / as Christ of the destruccion of Ierusalem. The duke elector of saxon cam from the warre of those vplondish people and other dukes with him / in to Vvittenberge where Marten is / with .xv. hundred men of armes / so that Marten if he had bene gyltie / … not hahaue gonne quite. And therto all the dukes and lordes that cleaue vn to the worde of god thys daye / were no lesse combred with their comē people then other men₊

Then after y^• lowdest maner he setteth out the cruelnesse of the emproures soudioures whych they vsed at Rome: but he maketh no mencion of the treason which holy church wrought secretly / were with the men off warre were so set on fire₊

viij.

M. what good dede will he do / that beleueth M. Moremarten / how that we hauehave no frewill to do any good with the helpe of grace? T. O poete Tyndalewith out shame₊ M. what harme shal he care to forbere / that beleueth M. Moreluther / how god alone / with out oure will worketh all the misheue that they doo. T. O naturall Tyndale.sonne of the father of all lies₊ M. what shall he care / how longe he liue in synne Morethat beleueth luther / that he shall after thys life / fele nether good ner evell in bodye ner soule vntyll the daye of dome? T. Christ and hys Tyndale.appostles taught no nother / but warned to loke for christes cominge agayne eueryevery houre. which cominge agayne / because ye beleue will neuer be therfore hauehave ye fained that other marchaūdice

M. Martens bokes be opē / if ye will not be M. More Tindaleleue vsus. T. Naye / ye hauehave shutt them vpp and therfore be bold to saie what ye liste₊

M. they liue as they teach ād teach as they M. More Tindaleliue. T. but nether teach ner liue as other lye on them₊

ix

M. though the turke offer pleasures vn to M. More▪the receauers ād deeth vn to the refusers of his secte (as the pope doeth) yet he sofereth none to breake their promises of chastite dedicat to god (though haply they vse no soch vowes / and as the pope wyll not excepte it be for monye) but luther teacheth to breake holy vowes. T. luther Tyndaleteacheth that vnlawfull vowes grounded on a false fayth vntounto the dyshonourynge of god are to be broken ād no nother. And agayne cōstrayned seruice pleaseth not God. And thridly youre pope geueth licence and his blessynge to breake all lawfull vowes / but with the most vnlawfull of all will ye not dispence₊

Then he bringeth forth the ensample of the hethen / to confirme the popis chastite. And no wronge / for the same false imaginacion that the hethen had in theirs / hath the pope in hys. Vnderstonde therfore / If thou vow ane indifferent vowesthynge / to please god in hys awne person / he receaueth not thyne Idolatrie: for hys pleasure ād honoure is / that thou shuldest be as he hath made the / and shulde receaue all soch thynges of hys hand and vse them as ferforth as they were nedfull and geue him thankes and be boūde to him: ād not that thou shuldest be as thou haddest made thy selfe. and that he shulde receaue soch thynges off the to be bounde to the / to thanke the and rewarde the. And agayne / thou must geue me a reason of thy vow out off the worde of God. Morouer when thou vowest lawfully thou maist not do it precyselye / but all waye excepte / yf thyne awne or thy neyboures necessite required the contrary. As yf thou haddest vowed neuer to eate flesh or drinke wine or stronge drinke / to tame thi flesh / and thou afterwarde fellest in disease so that thy body in that behalfe were to tame or that there coud no nother sustinaunce be gotten. Then thou must interpret soch cases excepte / though thou madest no mencion of thē / at the makinge of thi vow. Some mā wdld saye / other shifte might be made: what thē? If other drinke as whote as wine & of the same operacion / and other meate of the same power and vertue as flesh is / must be had / whi shuldest thou forswere wine or fleshe / seinge it is now no lēger for y^• taminge of they bodi And so forth of al wother / as I hauehave aboue declared₊

And when he bringeth in the apostles / marters / cōfessoures and .xv. hundred yeres / it is cleane contrary. For they had no soch false imaginaciō of chastite or of any other worke: but they vsed it to serue their neyboure and to avoyde trouble in time of persecuciō and to be eased of that hurthē y^t was to heuy for their weake shulders and not to cōpell god to thāke thē for y^• liberte for which they be bound to thanke him₊

x

IN the tenth he inveyeth and rayleth agēst Frewyllthat which nether he ner any fleshly mynded papiste cā vnderstōde / as they hauehave no power to consent vntounto y^t lawes of god. which herein appereth / y^t they cōpell their brethern which be as good as they to do & beleue what they lust ād not what god cōmaundeth. He affirmeth y^t marten saith how that we do no synne oure selues wyth oure awne wylle / but that god synneth in vsus and vseth vsus as a deed instrument and forseth vsus ther vn to and damneth vsus / not for oure awne deedes but for hys / and for hys awne pleasure / as he compelleth vn to synne for hys pleasure or rather he for hys pleasure synneth in vsus. I saye / that a man synneth voluntaryly. But the power of the will and of the dede is off god and eueryevery will and deed are good in the nature of the dede and the euelnesse is a lacke that there is / as the eye / though it be blinde is good in that it is soch a member created for soch a good vse: but it is called euell for lacke of sighte. And so are oure dedes euell because we lacke knowlege and louelove to referre them vn to the glorie of God. which lacke cometh of the deuell that blyndeth vsus with lustes and occasiōs that we can not se the goodnesse and rightwysnesse of the law of god and the meanes how to fulfill it. For coud we se it and the waye to doo it we shuld louelove it naturally as a chyld doeth a fayre apple. For as a child when a man sheweth him a fayre apple and wyll not geue it hym wepeth / so shuld we naturaly morne whē the members wold not come forwarde to fulfyll the law acordynge to y^• desyre of oure hertes. For paule saith .ii. Cor. iiij. if our gospell be hid / it is hyd vntounto them that perish / amonge which the God 2. Cor. 4.of this world hath blinded the wittes of the vnbeleuers / that the light of the glorious gospell of christ shuld not shyne to thē. And christ saith that the briddes eate vpp the seed sowen vppō the waye and interpreteth by the seed the worde / and by the foules / the deuell. So that the deuel blindeth vsus with falshed and lies which ys our worldly wisdome / ād therwith stoppethout the true light of gods wisdome / which blindnes is the euellnesse of all our dedes₊

And on the other syde / that a nother mā loueth the lawes of God and vseth the power y^t he hath of God well / and referreth his wyll and hys dedes vn to the honoure off God / cometh off the mercy off God which hath oppened hys wittes and shewed him light to se the goodnesse and rightwysnesse of the law of god and the waye that is in Christ to fulfill it. wherby he loueth it naturally & trusteth to doo it. why doeth god open one mās eyes and not a nothers? Paul Roma. ix. forbiddeth to aske that why. For it is to depe for mans capacite. God we se is honoured therby and his mercy sette out & y^• moare sene in the vesels of mercy. But the popish can sofre god to hauehave no secret hid to him selfe. They hauehave serched to come to y^• botome of his botomlesse wisdome / and because they can not attayne to that secrete and be to proude to let it alone / and to graunt thē selues ignoraunt with the appostle that knew no nother then Gods glorye in y^• electe / they goo and sett vpp frewyll with the hethen philosophers & saye that a mās frewyll is the cause why god choseth one & not a nother / contrary vn to all the scripture. Paul saith it cometh not of y^• will ner of the dede / but of the mercy of god. And they saye y^t eueryevery man hath at the least waye power in his frewyll / to deserue that power shuld be geuen him of god to kepe the lawe. But the scripture testifieth y^t Christ hath deserued for the electe euen then when they hated god / that there eyes shuld be opened to se the goodnesse of the lawe of God and the waye to fulfill it / and forgeuenesse of al that is passed where by they be drawen to louelove it and to hate synne₊

I axe the popish one question whether the wyll can preuent a mans wytte and make the witt se the rightwesnesse of y^• law and y^• waye to fulfil it in christ? If I must first se the reason why yer I can louelove. how shall I wyth my wyll doo that good thynge that I know not of? how shall I thanke god for the mercy that is layed vpp for me in christ / yer I beleue it? For I must beleue the mercy yer I can louelove y^• worke. Now faith cometh not of oure frewyl / but is the gyft Faithof god geuen vsus by grace yer therbe any wyl in our hertes to doo the lawe of god. And whi god geueth it not eueryevery mā I can geue no rekeninge of his iudgementes. But well I wott / I neuer deserued it ner prepared my selfe vn to it / but ran a nother waye cleane contrary in my blyndenesse / ād sought not that waye / but he sought me and found me out ād shewed it me and therwith drew me to him. And I bow the knees of myne herte vn to god nyght and daye / that he wyll shew it all other men. And I sofre all that I can to be a seruant to open theyr eyes.

For well I wott they can not se of them selues before God hauehave preuented them wyth his grace. For Paul sayth Philip. 1. he that began Philip. 1.a good werke in you shall continue or bringe it vn to a full ende / so that God must begynne to Phil. 2.worke in vsus. And Philip. ij. God it is that worketh both the willynge and also bryngynge to passe. And it must nedes be / for god must open mine eyes & shew me some what & make me se y^• goodnesse of it / to draw me to him / yer I can louelove / consent or hauehave any actuall wyll to come. And when I am willynge / he must assiste me ād helpe to tame my flesh / & to ouercome the occasions of the worlde & the power of the fendes. God therfore hath a speciall care for his electe ▪ Mat. 24.in so moch y^t he wyll shorten the weked dayes for their sakes in which no man / if they shuld cōtinue / might endure. And Paul sofereth all fo… the electe .ij. Timothe. ij. And gods sure fundacion stondeth sayth Paul / god knoweth his. S… that refuse the trouth who shall / god wyll kepe a nūbre of his mercye / & call them out of blyndnesse / to testifie the trueth vn to the rest / that their damnacion maye be with our excuse₊

The turcke / the Iew and the popish bild vppon frewyll and asscribe their iustifienge vn to their workes. The turke when he hath synned / runeth to the purifienges or ceremonies of Mahomete / and the Iew to the ceremonies of Moses / and the pope vn to his awne ceremonies / to fette forgeuenesse of their synnes. And the christen goeth thorow repentaunce towarde the lawe / vn to the faith that is in Christes bloude.

And the pope saith that the ceremonies of Moyses iustified not / cōpelled with the wordes of Paul. And how then shuld his iustifie? Moses sacramentes were but signes of promises of fayth / by whych fayth the beleuers ar iustified / and euen so be Christes also. And now because the Iewes hauehave put out the significacions of their sacramentes and put their trust in y^• workes of them / therfore they be Idolaters / and so is the pope for like purpose. The popesayth that Christ dyed not for vsus but for the sacramētes / to geue them power to iustifie. O Antichriste₊

xj.

HIs, xj. chapter is as true as his storie of Doctor ferman.vtopia and all his other poetrie. He meaneth doctoure Ferman person of hony lane. whom after they had handelled after their secret maner and disputed wyth secretly and had made him swere y^t he shuld not vtter how he was dealte wyth / as they hauehave made many other / then they contriued a maner of dispicions had with him / with soch opposicions / answerynges & argumentes as shuld serue only to sett forth their purpose. As master More thorow out all his boke maketh / quod he / to dispute and moue questions after soch a maner as he can soyle thē or make them appere soyled / and maketh him graunte where he listeth and at the last to be cōcluded and led wother Master More wyll hauehave him. wherfore I wyll not reherse all the argumentes / for it were to longe / and is also not to be beleued that he so made them or so disputed with them / but that they added and pulled awaye and fayned as they liste as their gise is. But I wyll declare in light that which Master More ruffeleth vpp in darkenesse / that ye maye se their falshed₊

First if ye were not false ypocrires / why had ye not disputed openly with him / that y^• world might hauehave hearde and born recorde / that that whych ye now saye of him were true? what cause is there y^t the laye people might not as well hauehave hearde his wordes of his awne mouth / as reade them of youre wrytynge / excepte ye were iuglynge spirites that walke in darkenesse?

Vvhen Master More saith the church teacheth that men shuld not trust in their workes / it is false if he mene the popis church. For they teach a man no trust in domme ceremonyes and sacramentes / in penaunce and all maner workes that come them to profite / whych yet helpe not vntounto repentaunce ner to fayth ner to louelove a mans neyboure₊

Master More declareth the meaninge of no sentence he describeth the propir significacion of no worde ner the difference of the significations of any terme / but runneth forth contusedly in vnknowen wordes and general termes And were one worde hath many significacions he maketh a man some time beleue that manye thinges are but one thynge / ād some time he leadeth from one significacion vn to a nother and mocketh a mās wittes. As he iugleth with thys terme church / makynge vsus in the begynnynge vnderstonde all that beleue and in the conclusyon the prestes only. He telleth not the office of y^e lawe / he describeth not his penaūce ner the vertue therof or vse / he declareth no sacrament / ner what they meane ner the vse ner wherin y^• frute off confession stondeth / ner whence the power of the absolucion cometh / ner wherein it resteth / ner what iustifiēge meaneth / ner the ordirner sheweth any diuersite of faithes / as though all faithes were one faith and one thinge₊

Marke therfore / the waye towarde iustifienge or forgeuenesse of sinne / is the lawe. God causeth The order of iustifienge.the lawe to be preached vn to vsus and wryteth yt in oure hertes and maketh vsus by good reasons fele that the lawe is good ād ought to be kepe ād that they which kepe it not are worthy to be damned. And on the other syde I fele that there ys no power in me / to kepe the lawe where vppō it wold shortly folow that I shud dyspeare / if I were not shortly holpe. But God which hath begon to cure me and hath layde that corosy vn to my sores / goeth forth in hys cure / and setteth hys sonne Iesus before me and all hys passyons and deeth / and saith to me: thys is my dere sonne / and he hath prayed for the and hath sofred all thys for the / and for hys sake I wil forgeue the al that thou hast done agenst thys good lawe / and I wyll heale thy flesh and teach the to kepe thys lawe / if thou wilt lerne And wyll beare wyth the and take al a worth that thou doest / tyll thou canst doo better. And in the meane season / not wythstondynge thy wekenesse / I wyll yet louelove the no lesse then I doo the angels in heauen / so thou wylt be delygent to lerne. And I wyll assiste the ād kepe the and defende the and be thy shilde and care for the

And the herte here begynneth to mollyfye and wax softe ād to receaue health and beleueth the mercy of God ād in beleuynge is saued frō feare of euerlastynge deeth and made sure off euerlastynge lyfe / and then beinge ouercome wyth thys kindnesse / begynneth too louelove agayne and to submitte hyr selfe vn to the lawe of God to lerne them and to walke in them₊

Note now the ordyr / first God geueth me light to se the goodnesse and ryghtwysnesse off the lawe and mine awne synne and vnryghtwesnesse. Out of whych knowlege springeth repentaunce. Now repentaunce teacheth me not that the law ys good / and I euell / but a lyght that y^• spyryte off God hath geuen me / out off whych lyght repentaunce springeth₊

Then the same spirite worketh in myne herte trust and confidence to beleue the mercye of God and hys trueth / that he wyll doo as he hath promised▪ whych beleffe saueth me. And immediatly out of that trust springeth louelove towarde the lawe of god agayne. And what soeuer a man werketh of any other louelove then thys it pleaseth not God / ner is that louelove Godly. Now louelove doeth not receaue thys mercy but fayth only / out of which fayth louelove springeth / by which louelove I power out agayne vppon my neyboure that goodnesse wych I hauehave receaued of God by fayth. Here of ye se that I can not be iustified wyth out repentaunce ād yet repentaūce iustyfieth me not. And here of ye se that I can not hauehave a faith to be iustified and saued / excepte louelove springe therof immediatly / and yet louelove iustifieth me not before God. For my naturall louelove to god agayne doeth not make me first se and fele the kyndnesse of God in christ / but fayth thorow preachinge. For we louelove not God first / to compel him to louelove agayne: but he loued vsus first and gaue hys sonne for vsus / y^t we might 1. Ioan. 4se louelove and louelove agayne / sayth sent Ihon in hys first epistle. whych louelove of God to vsus warde we receaue by Christ thorow fayth saith Paule. And thys ensample hauehave I sett out for them in dyuers places / but their blinde popysheyes hauehave no power too se it / couetousnesse hath so blinded them. And when we saye fayth only iustifyeth vsus / that ys to saye / receaueth y^• mercye wherewyth God iustifyeth vsus and forgeueth vsus / we meane not fayth whych hath noo repentaunce and fayth whych hath no louelove vn to the lawes off God agayne and vn to good werkes / as wyked ypocrytes falsly belie vsus?

For how then shulde we sofre as we doo all mysery / too call the blynde and ygnoraunte vn to repentaunce and good werkes / whych now doo but consent vn to all euell and studye mischeue all daye longe / for al theyr preachynge their iustifyenge of good workes. Let Master Moore ymproue thys wyth hys sopystrye and sett forth hys awne doctryne that we maye se the reason of yt and walke in light₊

Herof ye se what faith it is that iustifyeth what fayth iustifyethvsus. The faith in christes bloude of a repentinge herte towarde the lawe doeth iustifie vsus onli ād not all maner faythes. ye must vnderstond therfore / that ye maye se to come out of Mores blinde mase / how that there be many faithes and y^t all faythes be not one fayth / though they be all called with on generall name. There is a story fayth with out felynge in the herte / where with I maye beleue the hole story of the byble ād yet not sett myne herte ernestly therto / takynge yt for the sode of my soule / too lerne to beleue and trust God / to louelove him / breade him ād feare him by the doctrine and ensamples therof / but to se me lerned and to know the story / to dispute and make marchaundice / after as we hauehave en samples ynowe. And y^• faith wherwith a mā doeth miracles / is another gyft then the fayth of a repentinge herte to be saued thorow christes bloude / and the one no kynne too the other though Master More wold hauehave them so appere. Nether is the deuels fayth and the popis faith (where wyth they beleue that there ys a god ād that chryst ys and all the story off the byble and maye yet stonde wyth all wekednesse and full consent too euell) kynne vntounto the fayth of thē that hate evell and repent off their mysdedes and knowlege their synnes and be fled with ful hope and truste off mercye vn to the bloude off Christ₊

And when he sayth / yf fayth certyfye oure workeshertes that we be in the fauoure off God ād oure synnes forgeuen and become good yer we doo good werkes / as the tre must be first good per it bringe forth good frute / by christes doctrine then we make good workes but a shadowe where with a mā is neuer y^• better. Naie Sir we make good werkes / frutes where by oure neyboure is the better and wherby God is honoured and oure flesh tamed. And we make of them sure tokens where by we know that our faith is no fayned imaginacion and deed opinion made with captiuynge oure wyttes after the popis tradicions / but a lyuely thinge wrought by the holygoste.

And when he disputeth / if they that hauehave Alonefaith / hauehave louelove vn to the law and purpose to fulfill it / then fayth alone iustifieth not / how will he proue that argumēt? he iugleth with this worde alone: and wold make the people beleue that we said / how a bare faith that is with out all other companye / of repentaunce / louelove and other vertues / ye and with out gods spirite to / did iustifie vsus / so that we shuld not care to doo good. But the scripture so taketh not alone ner we so meane / as Master More knoweth well ynough. Vvhen an horse bereth a sadell and a similitudeman therin / we maye well saye / that the horse only and alone bereth the sadell / and is not holpe of the man in beringe therof. But he wold make men vnderstonde that we ment / the horse bare the sadell emptie and no man therin: let him marke this to se his ignoraūce / which wold god were not coupled with malice. EueryEvery man that hath witte / hath a will to and then by master mores argument / witte only geueth not the light of vnderstondynge. Now the conclusion is false ād the contrary true. For the witte with out helpe of the will geueth the light of the vnderstondynge / nether doeth the will worke at all / vntyll the wytt hauehave determined thys or that to be good or bad. Now what is faith saue a spirituall lyght of vnderstōdinge ād an inwarde knowlege or felynge of marcie. Out of whych knowlege louelove doeth springe. But louelove brought me not that knowlege / for I knew yt yer I loued. So that louelove in the processe off nature to dyspute from the cause to the effecte helpeth not at all to the felynge that God is mercifull to me no moare than the louynge herte and kynd behavoure of an obedyent wyfe to hir husbonde / maketh hyr se hys louelove and kyndenesse to hir / for many soch hauehave vnkynde husbandes. But by hys kynde dedes to hir doeth she se his louelove. Euen so my louelove & dedes make me not se Gods louelove to me in the processe of nature: but hys kynde dedes to me / in that he gaue his sonne for me maketh me se his louelove and to louelove agayne₊

Oure louelove and good werkes make not god first louelove vsus / and thaunge hym from hate to louelove / as the Turke / Iew and vayne popish meane but hys louelove and dedes make vsus louelove and chaunge vsus from hate to louelove. For he loued Roma. 5.vsus when we were euell and hys enimies as testifieth Paul in dyuers places and chose vsus to make vsus good and to shew vsus louelove ād to draw vsus to hym / that we shuld louelove agayne.

The father loueth hys chyld / when yt hath no power to doo good and when yt must be sofered to runne after the awne lustes wyth out lawe / ād neuer loueth yt better thē then / to make yt better and too shewe yt louelove / to louelove agayne. yf he coude se what ys wrytten in the fyrst pistle of Ihon / though al the other scripture were layed aparte / he shuld se all thys₊

And ye must vnderstonde / that we sometyme dispute forwarde / from the cause to the effecte and some tyme backwarde from the effecte to the cause / and must beware that we be not therwith begyled / we saye somer is come ād therfore all is grene / and dispute forwarde. For somer is the cause of the grenesse. The saye the ☜trees be grene / and therfore somer is come / and dispute backwarde from the effecte to the cause / For the grenetrees make not somer / but maketh somer knowen. So we dispute backwarde / the man doeth good dedes and profitable vn to his neyboure / he must therfore louelove god: he loueth god / he must therfore hauehave a true fayth and se mercye.

And yet my workes make not my louelove ner my louelove my fayth ner my fayth Gods mercye: But contrary / Gods mercye maketh my fayth and my fayth my louelove and my louelove my workes. And if the pope coude se mercy and worke of louelove to his neyboure and not sell his workes to god for heuen after Master Mores doctrine / we neded not so sotle disputynge of fayth₊

And when Master More allegeth Paul to the Corinthians / to proue that fayth maye be wyth out louelove / he proueth nothynge / but iugleth only. He sayth it is euident by the wordes of Paul / that a man maye hauehave a fayth to doo miracles wyth out louelove and maye geue all his good in almes with out louelove / and geue his body to burne for y^• name of Christe / and all with out charite. Vvell I wyll not stycke wyth him: he maye so doo wyth out charite and wyth out fayth therto. Then a man maye hauehave fayth wyth out fayth. ye verely because there be many differences of fayth / as I hauehave sayde / and not all faythes one faith / as master More iugleth. we read in the workes of S. Cipriane / Ciprianethat there were marters that sofred marterdom for the name of christ al the yere longe / and were tormented and healed agayne and then brought forth afreshe. which marters beleued / Marters that sofered al a yere longeas ye doo / that he payne of their marterdome shuld be a deseruinge and merite ynough / not only to deserue heuen for them selues / but to make satisfaccion for the synnes of other men therto / and gaue pardons of their merites after the ensample of the popis doctrine and forgaue the synnes of other mē which had openly denyed christe / and wrote vn to Cipriane / that he shuld receaue those men that had denied christe in to the congregacion agayne / at the satisfaccion of their merites. For which pride Cipriane wrote to thē & called them the deuels marters ād not Gods. Those marters had a faith with out faith. For had they beleued that all mercy is geuē for christes bloudeshedynge / they whold hauehave sent other men thither / ād wold hauehave sofered their awne marterdom for louelove of their neyboures only / to sarue them and to testifie the trueth of god in oure sauioure Iesu / vntounto the worlde / to saue at the least waye some / that is to wete / the electe / for whose sake Paule sofereth al thinge and not to winne heuen. yf I worke for a worldely purpose / I get no rewarde in heuen: euen so if I worke for heuen or an hier place in heuē I gett there no rewarde. But I must doo my worke for the louelove of my neyboure / because he is my brother and the price of Christes bloude and because christe hath deserued it ād dysyreth it of me / and then my rewarde is greate in heuen.

And all they whych beleue that their synnes be forgeuen them and they receaued as the scripture testifieth / vn to the enheritaunce of heuen for Christes merites / the same louelove christ & their brethern for his sake and doo all thynge for their sakes only / not once thynkinge of heuen / whē they worke / but on their bretherns neade. when they sofre them selues aboue might / then they comforte their soule with the remembraunce of heuen / that this wrechednesse shall hauehave an ende and we shalt hauehave a thousandfold pleasures ād rewardes in heuen / not for the merites of oure deseruynges but geuen vsus frely for Christes. And he that hath that louelove hath the right faith And he that hath that faith hath the right louelove. For I can not louelove my neyboure for Christes sake / excepte I first beleue that I hauehave receaued soch mercy of Christe. Ner can I beleue that I hauehave receaued soch mercy of Christ / but that I must louelove my neyboure for his sake / seinge that he so instantly desyreth me₊

And when he allegeth. S. Iames / it is answered him in the mammon / and. S. Augustine Iames. ….answereth him. And saynt Iames expoundeth him selfe. For he saith in the first chapter / God whych begatt vsus of his awne wyll with y^• worde of trueth which worde of trueth / is his promises of mercye and forgeuenesse in oure sauioure Iesus / by whych he begatt vsus / gaue vsus life & made vsus a new creature thorow a fast fayth And Iames goeth and rebuketh the opinion & false fayth of them that thynke it ynough to be saued by / iff they beleue that there is but one god and that Christ was borne of a virgen and a thousand thynges whych a man may beleue. and yet not beleue in Christe / to be saued from sinne thorow him. And that Iames speaketh of a nother fayth then at the begynnynge appereth by his ensample. The deuelles hauehave fayth saith he: ye but y^• deuels hauehave no fayth y^t can repent of euell or to beleue in Christ / to be saued thorow him / or that can louelove god ād worke his will of louelove. Now Paul speaketh of a faith y^t is in Christes bloude to be saued therby / which worketh immediatly thorow louelove of the benefite receaued. And Iames at the beginninge speaketh of a faith that bydeth trienge sayenge / the trienge of youre fayth worketh or causeth paciens. But the faith of the deuels wyll byde no trienge / for they wyll not worke gods wyll because they louelove him not. And in like maner is it of the fayth of them that repent not or y^t thynke them selues with out synne. For except a mā fele out of what daunger Christ hath delyuered him / he can not louelove the worke. And therfore Iames saith right / that no soch faith that wyll not worke can iustifie a man.

And when Paul saith faith only iustifieth: and Iames / that a man is iustified by werkes and not by fayth only / there is greate difference betwene Pauls only and Iameses only. For Paules only is to be vnderstonde / that fayth iustifieth in the hert and before god / wyth out helpe of werkes / ye and yer I can worke. For I must receaue life thorow fayth to worke wyth / yer I can worke. But Iames only is this wise to be vnderstonde / that faith doeth not so iustifie / that no thynge iustifieth saue fayth / For dedes How workes iustefyedoo iustifie also. But fayth iustifieth in the herte and before god / and the dedes before the world only and maketh the other sene as ye maye se by the scripture.

For Paul saith Roma. iiij. if Abraham hauehave workes / he hath wherof to reioce / but not before god. For if Abraham had receaued those promises of deseruynge / then had it bene Abrahams prayse and not gods / as thou maist se in Roma. 4.the texte: nether had god shewed Abraham mercy and grace / but had only geuen him his dutie and deseruinge. But in that Abraham receaued all y^• merciemercy that was shewed him / frely thorow fayth / out of the deseruinges of the seed y^t was promised him / as thou maist se by Genesis and by the gospell of Ihon / where Christ testifieth Ioan. 8.that Abraham saw his daye and reioysed / and of that ioye nodoute wrought / it is gods prayse / and the glory of his mercye. And the same maist thou se by Iames / when he saith Abrahā offered his sonne / and so was the scripture fulfilled / that Abraham beleued / and it was rekened him for rightwysnesse and he was therby made gods frende.

How was it fulfilled? before god? Naye / it was fulfilled before god manye yeres before / & he was gods frende many yeres before / euē frō the first appoynttment that was made betwene god and him. Abraham receaued promises of all merciemercy and beleued and trusted god & went & wrought out of that faith. But it was fulfilled before vsus which can not se the herte / as Iames sayth / I wyll shew the my fayth out of my workes / and as the angell said to Abraham / now I know that thou dreadest god. Not but that he knew it before / but for vsus spake he that / whych can se nought in Abraham moare then in other men / saue by his workes₊

And what workes ment Iames? verely y^• workes of mercye. As if a brother or a sister lacke cayment or sustinaunce and ye be not moued to compassion ner fele their diseases / whate fayth hauehave ye then? No faith (be sure) that feleth the mercye that is in Christe. For they that fele y^t / be mercifull ageyne and thākefull. But loke on the werkes of oure spiritualtie which wyll not only be iustified with werkes before the world / but also before god. They hauehave had all christendome to rule this .viij. hundred yeres / and as they only be annoynted in y^• heed / so hauehave they only bene kynge and emproure and hauehave had al power in their handes and hauehave bene the doers only and the leders of those shadowes that hauehave had the name of princes / and hauehave led them whother they wolde ād hauehave brethed in to their braynes what they listed. And they hauehave wrought the world out of peace and vnite and eueryevery man out of his wellfare and are become alone well at ease / only fre / only at liberte / only hauehave all thynge and only do nought therfore / only laye on other mennes backes and beare nought them selues And the good werkes of them that wrought out of faith and gaue their goodes ād landes to finde the pore them deuoure they also alone. And what workes preach they? Only that ar to them profitable and wherby they raigne in mens consciences as god: to offer / to geue to be prayed for ād to be deliuered out of purgarory and to redeme youre synne of them / and to worshepe ceremonies and to be shryuen and so forth₊

And when Master More is come to himselfe & sayth the first fayth and the first iustifienge is geuen vsus with out oure deseruinge. God be thanked / and I wold fayne that he wold describe me what he meaneth by the seconde iustifienge. I know no moare to doo / then when I hauehave receaued all mercy and all forgeuenesse of Christ frely / to goo and powre out the same vppon my neyghboure₊

M. Dauid lost not his faith / when he committed adultery. T. No / and therfore he coude not More. David. Tindalecontinue in synne / but repented assone as his faulte was told him. But was he not reconsyled by fayth only / and not by dedes? sayd he not hauehave mercy on me lorde for thy greate mercye and for the multitude of thy mercies put awaye my Psal. 51synne. And agayne / make me heare ioye & gladnesse / that the bones which thou hast brokē maye reioyse. That is latt me heare thy voyce that my synne is forgeuen and then I am saffe and wyll reioyse. And afterward he knowlegeth y^t god delyteth not in sacrifices for synnes / but y^• a troubled spirite and a broken herte is that whych god requireth. And when the peace was made / he prayeth boldly and familiarly to god / that he wold be good to Sion and Ierusalem / and sayth that then last of all when god hath forgeuen vsus of mercy / and hath done vsus good for our euell / we shall offer sacrifice of thankes to him agayne. So that our dedes are but thankesgeuynge▪ when we hauehave sinned / we goo with a repentynge herte vn to Christes bloude / and there wash it of thorow faith. And oure dedes are but thankes geuenge to god to helpe oure neyboures at their nede / for which oure neyboures and ech of them owe vsus as moch agayne at oure nede. So that the testament of forgeuenesse of synnes / is bylt vppon faith in christes bloude and not on workes. Master More wyll runne Pena culpa.to the pope for forgeuenesse a pena & culpa. By what merites doeth the pope that? by Christes. And Christ hath promised all his merites to them that repent & heleue and not geuē them vn to the pope to sell. And in youre absolucions ye oft absolue wyth out ioynynge of penaunce. He must hauehave a purpose to doo good werkes wyll ye saye. That condicion is sett before him to doo / out of the mercy that he hath receaued & not to receaue merciemercy out of them. But the popish can not repent out of the hert. And therfore can not fele the merciemercy that faith bryngeth / & therfore cā not be mercifull to their neyboures to doo their werkes for their sakes. But they fayne them a sorow for their synne in whych they euer continue and so morne for them in the mornynge that they laugh in them yer middaye agayne. And then they imagen them popish dedes / to make satisfaccion to God and make an Iodole of him₊

And fynally that good workes / as to geue almes and soch like / iustifie not of them selues / workes of thē selues iustefye notis manifeste. For as the good which are taught of god doo them well / of very louelove to god and Christ and of their neybours for Christes sake / even so the euell doo them of vayne glorie and a false faith wykedly / as we hauehave ensamples in y^• phareses / so that a man must be good yer he cā doo good. And so is it of y^• purpose to doo thē: Ones purpose is good and a nothers evell: so that we must be good yer a good purpose come How thē / to louelove the law of god and to consent therto and to hauehave it written in thine hert and to professe it / so that thou art ready of thyne awne accorde to doo it and wyth out compultion / is to be righteous: that I graunt and that louelove maye be called rightwysnesse before God passiue and the life and quickenesse of the soule passiue. And soferforth as a man loueth the law of god / so fersorth he is righteous / and so moch as he lacketh of louelove toward his neiboure after the ensample of Christe / so moch he lacketh of rightwysnesse. And that thynge whych maketh a man louelove the lawe of god / doth make a man righteous and iustifieth him effectiuely and actually and maketh him alyue as a worke man & cause efficient. Now what is it that maketh a man to love? verely not the dedes / for they folow and springe of louelove / if they be good. Nether the preachynge of the law / for that quickeneth not the herte Gala. iij. but causeth wrath Rom. iiij. and vttereth the synne only Romanorū. iij. And therfore sayth Paule that rightewysnesse spryngeth not out of the dedes of the law in to the herte / as the Iewes and y^• pope meane: but contrary the dedes of the law sprynge out of y^• rightwysnesse of the hert if they be good. As whē a father pronounceth the law / that y^• child shall goo to scole / it saith naye. For that killeth his hert and all his lustes / so that he hath no power to louelove it. But what maketh his herte aliue to louelove it? verely fayre promises of louelove and kindnesse / that it shall hauehave a gentle scolemaster and shall playe ynough and shall hauehave many gaye thynges and so forth. Even so the preachynge of fayth doth worke louelove in oure soules and make them aliue and draw our hertes to God. The mercye that we hauehave in Christ doeth make vsus louelove only and only bryngeth the spirite of life in to our soules.

And therfore saith Paul / we be iustified by fayth and by grace with out dedes: that is / yer the dedes come. For faith only bringeth / the spirite of life and deliuereth our soules from feare of damnacion / which is in the law and euer maketh peace betwene god and vsus / as oft as there is any variaunce betwene vsus. And finally when the peace is made betwene god and vsus and all forgeuen thorow faith in Christes bloude / and we begynne to louelove the lawe / we were neuer the nere excepte faith went with vsus / to supplye out the lacke of full louelove / in that we hauehave promises / that that litle we hauehave is take aworth & accepted tyll moare come. And agayne when our frailtie hath ouerthrowen vsus and feare of damnacion invadeth our consciences / we were vtterly lost / if fayth were not bye to helpe vsus vpp agayne / in that we are promised that whēsoeuer we repent of euell and come to the right waye agayne / if shalbe forgeuen for Christes sake. For when we be fallen / there is no testamēt made in werkes to come / that they shal saue vsus And therfore the werkes of repentaunce or of the sacramentes can neuer quiet our consciences and deliuer vsus from feare of damnacion. And last of all in temptacions tribulacion and aduersites / we perished dayly excepte fayth wēt with vsus to deliuer vsus / in y^t we hauehave promises / y^• god wyll assiste us / cloth vsus / fede vsus and fight for vsus and rid vsus out of the handes of oure enimies. And thus the rightewysse liueth euer bye ☞faith / evē from faith to faith / that is / as sone as he is deliuered out of one temptacion a nother is sett before him to feighte agenst and to ouer come thorow fayth. The scripture sayth / blessed is the man whose transgression is forgeuen & his synnes hid / and vn to whom y^• lorde rekeneth not vnrightwysnesse. So y^t the only rightwysnesse of him that can but synne ād hath nought of hym selfe to make amendes / is the forgeuenesse of sinne / which faith only bringeth. And as forsorth as we be vnryghwese / faith only iustifieth vsus actiuely and else nothinge on our partie. And as ferforth as we hauehave synned / be in sinne or do synne or shall synne / so ferforth must fayth in christes bloud iustifie vsus only and else no thynge To louelove / is to be rightwesse so ferforth as thou louest / but not to make rightwesse / ner to make peace. To beleue in christes bloud with a repentinge hert is to make rightwesse and the only makynge of peace and satisfaccion to goo warde. And thus because termes be darke to them that be not experte and excercysed / we all waye sett out our meanynge wyth clere ensamples / reportynge our selues vn to the hertes and consciences of all men₊More. Tyndale▪

M. the blasphemous wordes of luther seme to signifie / that both saynt Ihon baptiste & oure ladie were synners. T. Ihon baptiste sayde too christ. Mat. iij. I had nede to be baptised of the and comest thou to me? wherof did Ihon confesse that he had nede to be washed and purged by chryste / off hys holynesse and good dedes? when Ihon sayd / behold the lambe off god that taketh awaye the synne of the worlde / he was not off that sorte ner had any synnes to be takē awaie at any time / ner any parte in christes bloude whych dyed for synners only. Ihon came too restore all thynge sayth christ. That is / he came to enterpret the law of God truly and to proue all flesh synners / too send them to Christe / as paul doeth in the begynnynge off the Romans. whych law if Master More coude vnderstonde how spirituall yt ys and what ye requireth off vsus / he wolde not so dyspute. And yf there were no imperfectenesse in oure ladies dedes / whi did christ rebuke hyr Ihon. ij. when he ought rather to hauehave honoured hys mother / and why did he make hir seke him .iij. dayes. Chrisostimus dare Chrisostymussaye / that our lady was now & then taken wyth a litle vayne glorie. She loked for the promises off hym that shulde come and blesse hyr / from what? She beleued to be saued by christ / from what? Thys I graūt / that our lady / Ihon baptiste / Isaac / Iacob / Ioseph / Moses and many lyke / dyd neuer consent too synne / to folow it: But had the holy gost from the bygynnynge. Neuer the later whyle they folowed the spirite and wrought theyr best / yet chaunces met them by the waye and temptacyons / that made theyr werkes come some tymes vnperfectely too passe / as a potter that hath hys craft neuer so well / meteth a chaunce now and then / that maketh hym facyon a pott amisse. So that I thinke the perfectest of them all as we hauehave ensamples off some / were compelled to saye wyth Paull / that good that I wold / I doo not and that euell y^t I wolde nott / that I doo. I wolde not sweere on a boke that yf our lady had bene letslipp as woother were and as harde apposed wyth as present deeth before hyr eyes / that she wolde not hauehave denyed some thynges that she knewe true▪ ye but she was preserued by grace that she was not. No but though she were kepte by grace from the outwarde dede / yet yf theyr were soch wekenesse in hyr flesh / she had synne And the grace was / that she knew yet and was meke too beleue in chryst / too h…ue yt forgeuen hyr and too be preserued that yt shulde not bud forth. Ihon the euangelyst / when he was as holy as euer was Ihon the baptyst said / yf we▪ 1. Ioan. 1.saye we hauehave no synne / we dysceaue oure selues₊

Then he compareth faith and dedes too gether and wyll that fayth shulde stonde in no beter seruice off ryght then dedes. yes / for the dedes workes are vnderunder the lawebe examined by the law / and therfore yt ys not ynough too doo them only / or to doo them wyth louelove: but I must doo them wyth as greate louelove as christ dyd for me / and as I receaue a Faith ys vnderunder no lawegood dede at my nede. But fayth ys vnderunder no lawe / and therfore be she neuer sofeble / she shal receaue acordynge too the trueth off the promyser₊

M. what thynge coude we axe god of ryght because we beleue hym? T .verely all that he More. Tyndalepromyseth / maye we be bold to axe of right and dutye and by good obligation₊

M. Ferman said that all workes be good ynough in them that god hath chosen. T. I am More Tindalesure yt ys vntrue / for their best be not good ynough / though God forgeueth them their euell of hys mercye / at the repentaunce of theyr hertes₊

Then he endeth in hys scole doctryne contrary vn to all the scripture / that god remitteth not the synne of his chosen people / because that he hath chosen them or of hys mercye / but off a towardnesse that ys moare in one then in another sayenge God sawe before that Peter shuld repent and Iudas wolde dyspeare / and therfore chose Peter. If God chose Peter because he dyd repent / why chose he not Iudas to / which repented as moch as he and knowleged hys synne and brought the money agayne? O thys blyndenesse / as god had wrought nothynge in the repentaūce of peter. Sayd not christ before / Luce. 22.that peter shuld faull. And sayd he not that he had prayed for hym that he shulde be holpe vpp agayne? Christ prayed a stronge prayer for peter to helpe hym vpp agayne and sofred a stronge deeth therto. And before his deeth he committed them vn to hys father saynge I hauehave kepte Ioan. 17.them in thy name & I departe / kepe thē now frō euell. Peter had a good hert too god and loued his lawe and beleued in christe and had the spirite of god in him which neuer left him for all his faull. Peter sinned of no malice / but of frailtie & soden feare of deeth. And the goodnesse of God wrought hys repentaunce ād all the meanes by whych he was brought vpp agayne at christes requeste. And Iudas was neuer good ner came to christ for louelove of his doctrine / but of couetousnesse / ner dyd euer beleue in christe₊

Iudas was by nature and birth (as we all Iudas.be) heyre of the wrath of god / in whom the deuel wrought hys will and blynded hys hert with Ignoraunce. In which ignoraunce and blyndnesse he grue / as he grue in age and fell deper and deper therin / and therby wrought all hys wekednesse and the deuels wyll and perished therin. From whych ygnoraunce god purged peter off hys mercye and gaue hym light and hys spirite too geuern hym / and not of any towardnesse that was in peter off his awne byrth: but for the mercy y^t we hauehave in the birth of chrystes deeth₊

And how wil M. More proue y^• god choseth not off hys goodnesse but off oure towardnesse? what good towardnesse can he hauehave and endeuoure that is all to gether blynde and caried awaye at the wyll of the deuell / tyll the deuell be cast out? At we not robbed of all towardnesse in Adam and be by nature made the children of synne / so that we synne naturally and to synne is our nature? So y^• as now / though we wold doo well / the flesh yet synneth naturally nether ceaseth to synne / but so ferforth as it is kepte vnderunder with violence: euē so once our hertes synned as naturally wyth full lust and consent vn to the flesh / the deuel possessynge our hertes ād kepynge out the light of grace. Vvhat good towardnesse and endeuoure can we hauehave to hate synne / as longe as we louelove it? what good towardnesse can we hauehave vntounto the wyll of god / whyle we hate it and be ignoraunte therof. Can the wyll desyre that the witte seith not? Can y^• will longe for and sigh for that the wytt knoweth not of? Can a man take thought for that losse y^t he wotteth not of? what good endeuoure can the turkes childern / the Iewes childern and the popis infantes hauehave / when they be taught all falshed only wyth lyke persuasions of worldly reason / to be all iustified with werkes? It is not therfore as Paul sayth / of the runnynge or willynge Roma. 9but of the mercye of god / that a mā is called and chosen to grace₊

The first grace / the first fayth and the first iustifienge is geuen vsus frely sayth Master More. whych I wold fayne were how it wyll stond with his other doctrine / and whether he meane any other thynge by chosynge thē to hauehave gods spirite geuen me and fayth to se the merciemercy that is layd vpp for me and to hauehave my synnes forgeuen with out all deseruynge and preparynge of my selfe God did not se only that the these y^• was saued at christes deeth / shuld come thither / but god chose him to shew his merciemercy vn to vsus that shuld aftir beleue / and prouided actually and wrought for the bringynge of him thither that daye / to make him se ād to receaue the merciemercy that was layed vpp for him in store / before y^• world was made

xij.

In the .xij. in chafinge him selfe to hepe lye vppon lye / he vttereth his feleable blindnesse. For he haxeth this questiō wherefore serueth exhortacions vn to fayth / if the hearers hauehave not libertye of their frewyll / by which together with gods grace a man may laboure to submitte the rebellion of reason vn to the obedience of Frewillfaith and credence of the worde of God. whereof ye se / that besydes his graunt that reason rebelleth agenst faith / contrary to the doctrine of his first boke / he will that the will shall compell the witte to beleue. which is as moch to saye y^t the carte must draw the horses ād the sonne begett the father / and the auctorite of the church is greather then gods worde. For the will cannot teach y^• witt ner leade hir / but foloweth naturally: so that what soeuer the witt iudgeth good or euell / that the wyll loueth or hateth. If the witte se and leade streight / the will foloweth If the witt be blinde and lead amisse / the will foloweth cleane out of the waye. I can not louelove The witte leadeth the will.gods worde before I beleue it / ner hate it / before I iudge it false and vanite. He might hauehave wiselier spokē on this maner / wherefore serueth the preachynge of faith / if the witt hauehave no power to draw the will to louelove that which the witte iudgeth true and good. If the will be nought / teach the witt better and y^• will shall alter and turne to good immediatly. Blindnesse is the cause of all euel and light the cause of al good: so that where the faith is right there the herte cānot consent vntounto euell / to folowe the lustes of the fleshe / as the popes faith doeth. And this conclusion hath he halfe a dosen tymes in his boke / that the will maye compell the witt and captiuate it / to beleue what a man lusteth. verelye it is like that his wittes be in captiuite ād for vauntage tangled with oure holy fathers sophistrie.

His doctrine is aftir his awne felynge and as the profession of his herte is. For the popish hauehave yelded them selues / to folowe the lustes of their fleshe / and compell their witte to absteyne from lokynge on the trouth lest she shuld vnquiet them ād draw them out of the podell of their filthie voluptuousnesse. As a carte that is ouerladen goinge vp an hill draweth the horses backe / ☜and in a tough mire maketh thē stonde styll. And then the carter the deuel which driueth thē is euer by and whistelleth vn to them and biddeth them captiuatt their vnderstondynge vn to profitable doctrine for which they shall hauehave no persecucion but shall raigne and be kynges and enioye the pleasures of the worlde at their awne will.

xiij.

In the .xiij. he saith that y^• clergie burneth no man. As though y^e pope had not first found y^e lawe / & as though al his {pre}achers babled not y^t in eueryevery sermō / burne these heretikes burn thē for we hauehave no nother argument too conuince them and as though they comppelled not both kinge and emproure to swere that they shall so doo / yer they croune them₊

Then he bryngeth in prouisions of Kynge Kinge Hēry the .v.Henry the .v. Of whom I axe. M. More whether he were ryght heyre vn to englonde or held he the lande wyth the swerde as an hethen tyraunte / agenst all ryght. whom the prelates / lest he shulde hauehave had leyser too herken vn to the trouth / sent in to fraunce / too occupie hys mynde in warre / and led him at their wil. And I axe whether his father slew not his lege kinge and true enheretoure vntounto the croune and was therfore set vpp of the bisshops a false kinge to maynetene theyr falsehed? And I axe whether after that weked dede / folowed not the destruccion of the comenaltie ād quenchynge of all the noble bloude

xiiii

In the .xiiii. he affirmeth that Martē luther saieth it is not lawfull to resiste the turke I wōdre that he shameth not so to lye seynge y^t marten ☞hath written a singular tretice for the cōtrarye. besydes that in many other workes he proueth it laufull / if he invade vsus.

xvi

In the .xvi. he allegeth counsels. I axe whether counsels hauehave auctorite to make articles of the faith with out gods worde / ye ād of thynges improued by gods worde?

He allegeth Augustine / Hierom and Cipriane. Let him put their workes in english and. S. prosperus with them. whi damned they the vnion of doctoures / but be cause the doctours are agenst them

And when he allegeth marters / lett him shew one and take the calfe for his laboure.

And in the end he biddeth bewarre of them y^• liue well in any wise. As though they whych liue euell can not teach amisse. And if y^• be true then they be of the surest syde.☜

M. when Tindale was apposed of his doctrine / yer he went ouer se / he said and sware / he More.mēt no harme. T. he sware not nether was there any man that required an oth of him: but he Tindale swerethnow swereth by him whom he trusteth to be saued by / that he neuer ment or yet meaneth any other harme then to sofre all that god hath prepared to be leyd on his backe / for to brynge his brothern vn to the light of our sauiour Ihesus which the pope thorow falshed and corruptynge soch poetes as ye are (ready vn to all thynge for vauntage) leadeth in the darkenesse of deeth

M. Tyndale doeth know how that. S. Augustine & S. Hierom doo proue with holy scripture Morethat confession is of necessite vn to saluacion T. y^• is false if ye meane eare confessiō. whi allege ye not y^• places where? But ye knowe by. S. TindaleHierom and other stories and by the conuersacion with Erasmus / how it come vpp and that the vse was once ferre other then now.

M. I meruell that Tyndale denieth purgatory / excepte he entende to goo too hell. T. he entēdeth to purge here vn to the vttermost of his More. purgatory Tyndale.power and hopeth that deeth wyll ende and fynish his purgacion. And if there be any other purgynge / he wyll committe it to god and take it as he findeth it / when he cometh at it / & in the meane tyme take no thought therfore / but for this that is present where with all sayntes were purged & were taught so to be. And Tyndale maruelith what secret pilles they take to purge thē selues which not only wil not purge here with y^• crosse of christe / but also bye out their purgatory there of y^e pope / for a grote or .vi. pens₊

xviij

M. the clergie doeth nothynge vn to y^• heretikes but as y^• holy doctours did. T. yes ye put More. Clargye Tyndale.thē in youre presones and diote thē and handle thē after youre facion as tēporall tiraūtes / and dispute with thē secretly & wil not come at light And ye sle thē for rebukynge you with Gods worde / and so did not the old holy doctours. If a man sle his father / ye care not. But if any mā Notetwich one of you though he hauehave neuer so greate an occasyon geuen hym / ye curse him / and yf he wyll not submitte him selfe vn to youre punishement / ye leaue him vn to the temporall power whom ye hauehave hyred with the spoyle of his goodes to be youre hangman / so that he must lose hys lyfe / for geuinge one of you but a blow on the cheke₊

M. Saynt paul gaue .ii. heretikes vn to the More.deuell whych tormented their flesh which was no small punishment and haply he slew thē. T. TindaleO expounder of y^• scripture like hugo charēsys which expoundeth hereticū hominē deuita / take the heretike out of his life. we reade of no payne that he had whom the Corinthians excomunicat and gaue to sathan / to sle hys flesh / saue that he was asshamed of hym selfe and repented / when he saw hys offence so ernistly taken and so abhorred. But ye because ye hauehave no power to delyuer them to sathan to blynde theyr myndes / ye deliuer them to the fyre to destroy their flesh / that no moare is sene of them after then the asshes₊

Answer to Thomas More, Part 6

p. CviMaster Mores fourth boke.