A Case for the Spectacles, Response to text · Chapter 3
CHAP. III. The summe of his Answer to my second and third Sections.
IN the second Section he saith I labour to prove the contention betwixt the Churches to proceed originally from them. The third Section is to prove the corruption both in faith and manners: Both which are easily answered; First by asking, what is this to the purpose for the visible Church? Secondly, with the contradiction of a former lye, he telleth a new one; for the Reformation was sought for manners onelyonly, and not for doctrine. This is the substance of your third Chapter, in answer to my second and third Sections.
The Reply.
You have answered two Sections almost in two words; the first, in denying it to be to the purpose; the latter, in giving me the lye: And thus like another Caesar you have briefly expressed the expedition of your victory in few words,Veni, vidi, vici. I came, I saw, I overcame.
First, you demand, what is this to the purpose of a visible Church? But I rather wonder to what purpose you make such a demand; For my Booke is entitled The Safe Way, not the visibility of the Church. Yet let me tell you, the Authors which I cite are for the most part members of your Church, and their authorities tend much to the proofe of a visible Church, if your Index Expurgat…rius did not spunge them, and cause their testimonies to be often invisible. For instance; in our behalfe I cite Cassander: To Cassander you answer, he is like your selfe, an Hereticke, or next doore to them: and yet elsewhere you say, with much adoe he may passe for a Catholike. Pag. 21. Oportet esse memorem.I cite Cecenas Generall of the order of Franciscans, as witnessing the visibilitie of our Church above 300. yeares agoe; you answer, he was condemned for disobedience and rebellion; for he said Pope John the 22. was an Apostata and an Hereticke, and therefore not true Pope: And in this manner you can easily resolve all doubts, and reject all Authors that speake not Placentia, according to your pallate; onelyonly (say you) St. Bede is a Catholicke. Now if you please, take a review of these Authors. Cassander (you know) was a learned man, he was highly favoured for his wisedome by two Emperours, Maximilian and Ferdinand; he was moderate in all his writings, he sought to extenuate the palpable errors and heresies of your Church, he indevoured to accord, and (if it had beene possible) to reconcile the differences on both sides; and lastly, he lived and died in the communion of the Roman Church. Cecenas was a Frier, and Generall of the Order of Franciscans, he was condemned de facto by the Pope; but it doth not appeare quo jure, by what right, for if the accusation were true, the Pope deserved the punishment, and not the innocent Frier: listen therefore to the rebellion and disobedience for which he was accused. Cecenas shewes in particular that Pope John was a schismaticke and an heretike, in his peremptorie opposition against the Word of God and the Catholicke Church;Mich. de Cecena tractat. contra errores Papae p. (mihi) 1314. & 1336 in Tom. 2. Gul. Occham. de Jurisdictione Imperiali. Naucter. Gener. 45. Anno 1324. he charged him with twelve severall errors, which you may reade at large in the place cited; and for those and the like accusations he was excommunicated and deposed by the Pope. I confesse the accusation was capitall, but it was no other than was justly laid to his charge. For Nauclerus saith, Many great and famous Divines of great learning and good life proclaimed Pope John (by the name of Pope) to be an Hereticke for certaine errors; which errors notwithstanding it is said that he (coldly) revoked at the time of his death; Tepidè.and hee addes withall, that Pope Benedict his immediate successor openly condemned the same errors. You see then it was not the Franciscan Frier onelyonly, but many Divines both good and learned did condemne him of Heresie; and not they alone, but the Pope himselfe who succeeded him, publikely condemned him for an Hereticke. And thus much touching Pope John the 21. called by some the 22. There was another Pope John, by the name of 22. otherwise called 23. who was living one hundred yeares after; he was chosen Pope ataPlat. in Joh. 24. Bononia, by the consent of all the Cardinals. Against this John, it was specially objected at the Councel of Constance, bQuinimo dixit, & pertinacitèr credidit, animam hominis cum corpore humano mori, & extingui ad instar animalium brutorum. Concil. Constant.That he obstinately held that the soule of man dieth together with the body, and is consumed to nothing, as the soule of brute beasts: Neither did he hold this Tenet as a private man (which is your generall Answer) for Antoninus saith plainely, Pope John held this error in the time of his Popedome, cJohannes sermonē faciens in publico consistorio, dixit quadam haeresin sapientia. Anton. part. 3. tit. 21. c. 6.and pronounced words savouring of heresie openly in the Consistorie. Neither was this accusation of these men accounted rebellion and disobedience in them, as it was in Ceaenas; for (saith Gerson)dFalsitas doctrinae Papae Johānis, vicessimi, quae dānata fuit cum sono buccinarum vel tubarum coram Rege Philippo per Theologos Parisienses. Gers. serm. in Festo Paschae Tom. 4. pag. (mihi) 491. his false doctrine was condemned by the Divines of Paris, and proclaimed with sound of trumpets in the presence of King Philip; and withall the Councell it selfe deprived him of his Popedome (which shewes plainly, the authority of a Councell is above the Pope.) And to his deposition subscribed 4. Patriarkes, 29. Cardinals, 47. Archbishops, 270. Bishops, 564. Abbots and Doctors, in all above 900. deposed both Benedict the 12. and John the 23. and yet these men are reputed by you for an infallible Rule of the Roman Faith. And thus not onelyonly Ceaenas was deposed for his disobedience towards an Hereticke, and is now thrust into your first Classis of damned Authors, but the whole Councell of Constance touching that Session (where they decred the Councell to be above the Pope) is rejected, and disavowed by your Church.
It is no difficult thing then to prove your infallible Pope may bee an Hereticke; but if any man of your owne Church shall say so, and manifestly prove it, yea although it be a generall Councell, it must therefore be censured and condemned by your Church: And this may briefly serve in answer to what you say against my second Section.
The third Section (say you) is of corruption both in Faith and manners,Pag. 50. which the Knight proveth out of the Councell of Pisa, and out of the Councell of Trent; To which I answere: For matter of manners wee willingly acknowledge a reformation to be needfull, but for doctrine with the contradiction of his owne former lye, hee telleth a new one.
It is a true saying of Chrysostome, A lyar thinkes no man speakes the truth; Qui mendax est neminem verum putat dicere. Chrys. in Matth. Hom. 19But that the truth of my assertion may appeare, looke upon the Letters of summons; they declare that the Councell was called to reforme errors that concerned Faith; they shew there was a due and wholesome reformation to be made, aswell of the Church doctrine, as of the manners of men, for quieting the consciences of the faithfull: And accordingly Pope Alexander did assemble the most learned of all Nations;Idem dixit, quod ipse volebat vacare circa Reformationem Ecclesiae, &c. Acta Concil. Pis. Sess. 20. Bin. Tom. 3. Pars 2. p (mihi) 837. the Cardinals did binde themselves with an Assumpsit, that they would not proceed to the election of a new Pope (when his predecessors Gregorie the 12. and Benedict the 13. were deposed) unlesse the Pope would agree to a reformation in the Head and Members; and will you say the Pope did assemble the most learned of all Nations to teach good manners onelyonly? Cardinall de Aliaco was living in his dayes:De squallor. Rom. Eccles. p. 34. in Biblioth. Westmonasteriensi. Gers. declaratio defect. virorū. he complaines that Pagan abuses, and diabolicall superstitions were so many in the Church, that they could not be imagined.
Gerson (Chancellor of Paris) complained of particular errors, that Images in Churches occasioned Idolatrie; Apocryphall Scriptures were brought into the Church, to the great damage of Christian Faith. Occham compēdium contr. errores Papae p. 957. Incipit Prologus.Looke into the age before him; Occham (a Frier Minorite) cries out, Alas the time of which the blessed Apostle prophesied (when men will not suffer wholesome doctrine) is altogether fulfilled in our eares; For behold there are many that pervert the holy Scriptures, deny the sayings of the holy Fathers, reject the Canons of the Church, and civill Constitutions of the Emperors. Looke into the age before him;Matth. Paris. p. 843. Grosthead (Bishop of Lincolne) complaines that there was a defection, a revolt, an Apostasie from the true Faith. Looke into Bernards time, and there you shall finde by his owne confession,Bernard. in Cant. Serm 33. p. (mihi) 673. The wound of the Church was inward, and past recoverie. These former complaints and grievances in the Church did sound aloud in the eares of the later ages, and she made great mourning and lamentation for her children, because they were not such as she first bred them; and accordingly no doubt they wished for a reformation of errors in doctrine, as well as Discipline in the Church.
Looke after Pope Alexanders time, and before the Councell of Trent, and your Bishop of Bitonto will shew you the state and miserable condition of your Church, as it were in a Glasse.In Ep. ad Roman. c. 6. Alas (saith he) how were the Scriptures neglected in the later Ages, to the detriment of all people! Rivet. Sum. Controv. p. (mihi) 98.There was then in request a tedious and crabbed Divinitie about Relations, about quiddities and formalities; and all those things were handled and wrested with Syllogismes and humane Sophistrie, which (without doubt) by the same authority as they were received, might be refelled. The whole Age was spent about the decrees of men, which were contradictory amongst themselves, and irreconcilable, and nourished perpetuall contention. He was accounted the best Divine, that knew best how to devise the greatest wonders for his Traditions. It was a part of their honour and vaine glory to speake bigge words with great lookes among women, not to be understood when they disputed of the Scriptures. The Preachers of the word were all sworne to the word of their Masters: and from hence sprung sixe hundred Sects; as namely, Thomists, Scotists, Occhamists, Alexandrians, &c. O heinous wickednesse! The Gosspels and Epistles of the Apostles were laid aside, true Divinitie lay hid, and was handled of very few; but coldly, I will not say, unfaithfully.
In what state the Church remained in those dayes, when Papall Traditions and cunning Sophistry prevailed against the sacred Scriptures, let the Reader judge:Onus Ecclesiae c. 16. p. (mihi) 79 Your owne St. Francis foretold that the times were at hand, wherein many differences should arise in the Church, when charitie should waxe cold, iniquity should abound, and the Divell should be let loose, and that the purity of his Roman Religion should be depraved; and accordingly (saith my Author) the Image of the Crosse in the Church of St. Damian spake unto him;Vade, repara domum meam, quae ut cernis, tota labitur. Goe and repaire my house which you see is altogether decayed. Thus Bishops, and Friers, and Images, stocks and stones cried out of the falling away of your Church (if we may credit your owne Authors) and yet by no meanes you will assent to a reformation of doctrine or manners.
At Luthers first rising, which was almost 30. yeares before the Councell of Trent, your Guicciardine tells us,Guicciard. Hist. lib. 13. that there were that yeare many meetings at Rome, to consult what was best to be done. The more wise and moderate sort wished the Pope to reforme things apparently amisse, and not to persecute Luther. Hieronymus Savanarola told the French King, Charles the 8. he should have great prosperitie in his voyage into Italie, to the end hee should reforme the state of the Church, which if he did not reforme, he should returne with dishonour; and so (saith he) it fell out.
I come to the Councell of Trent it selfe, where you may reade many decrees for reformation, and yet neither doctrine nor manners reformed. But let us heare your owne confession. It is true, the Councell indeed complaineth with great reason of the avarice of such whom the Knight calleth the Popes Collectors, though the Councell speaketh not of the Pope: but false it is which he saith, that the Councell complaineth of Indulgences, an Article of faith (as his words are.) The Councell likewise complaineth of many things crept into the celebration of the Masse, and the words of the Councell are right cited by him in Latin in the Margent, but in the English he foully corrupteth them: For in stead of many things, hee translated many errors, which is a grosse errour and corruption in the Knight.
These be your grand exceptions to the grosse corruptions laid unto my charge; but all this while you doe not discharge the accusations laid justly to your Church. And in this I must needs say, you play the Hypocrite, who can discerne a mote in your Brothers eye, and cannot see a beame in your owne: First therfore cast the beame out of your own eye, and then you shall easily disccrne without Spectacles, that the Collectors of Indulgences are the Popes Collectors, although the Pope is not mentioned in that place; and Indulgences are an Article of Faith created by that Councell, although the Councell proclaime it not an Article of Faith: so that (multa) many things, might well stand for many errors and corruptions, since they were errors in practise. Neither would I have set the Latin in the Margent if I had meant to corrupt them in English; and withall, if you had taken the last edition (as you ought to have done) you should have found them in another Character, and then all your waste words of foule corruptions, had beene needlesse. But in this you resemble Palladius a lewd fellow, who in like manner charged St. Hierome with falsifications and false translations: He preacheth and publisheth abroad (saith Hierome) that I am a falsarie, Hieron. ad Pāmich. de optimo genere interpret. Tom. 2.that I have not precisely translated word for word, that I, in stead of the word Honourable, have written these words, Deerely beloved: These things and such trifles (saith he) are laid unto my charge. Now heare what Answer St. Hierome makes; Whereas the Epistle it selfe declareth, that there is no alteration made in the sense, and that there is neither matter of substance added, nor any doctrine devised by me, verily by their great cunning they prove themselves fooles, and seeking to reprove other mens unskilfulnesse, they betray their owne. Let us heare therefore the rest of your Things (for so you will have me terme them) which are crept into your Church, and need a Reformation.
The Councell (say you) seemeth to acknowledge the avarice of Priests in saying Masse for mony, was not farre from Symonie. It speaketh of the use of Musicke, wherewith some wantonnesse was mixed, as also of certaine Masses or Candles used in certaine number, proceeding rather from superstition than true Religion. This you confesse is true in your Councell, but to these you answer nothing.Concil. Trid. Sess. 22. Can. 9. You might have added to these abuses both Superstition and Idolatry in the Masse, for your Councell confesseth them both: and I thinke it toucheth your errors in Doctrine. But have you reformed all or any of these things? Is your superstitious number of Masses and lights in the Church abated? Are your lascivious and wanton songs, set to the Organs, and mingled with other Church musicke, redressed? Is your covetousnesse in Priests, with their Superstition and Idolatry in the Masse, abolished? These corruptions are things and things (as you call them) and such as I wonder your Councell was not ashamed to confesse, much more to tolerate,Mirae mirae entis Res. Juvenal. or rather to practice in the daily sacrifice of your Masse. I hasten to the Reformation in doctrine: but you tell me it is a Lye, the Councell never intended it; I instance in private Masse, Latin Service, &c. You answer it is most false, for the doctrine is the same still, and ever was.
I perceive your passion makes you much forget your selfe: for your doctrine (I confesse) which is commonly received, is the same now, that was decreed in the Councell of Trent; but that is was ever the same, as now it is, all the Colledge of Cardinals and Jesuits cannot prove. Looke upon your owne confession in those two particular instances: Your private Masse, where the Priest communicates alone, is not the same now, as it was heretofore; For (say you) it was the practise of the Primitive Church for the people to communicate every day with the Priest. Spectacl. pag. 191.Your Prayer in an unknowne tongue is not the same now as it was heretofore, for (say you) Prayer and Service in the vulgar Tongue was used in the first and best Ages; Pag. 271.and now the vulgar is become the Latin unknown tongue. Take heed therefore of these confessions, for by such palpable contradictions you may lose your Proselytes, and bring the Lye upon your selfe.
Againe, you confesse that the Councell wisheth that the standers by did communicate, not onelyonly spiritually, Pag. 53.but also sacramentally: and doth not your Church in this wish a reformation in doctrine? Doth it not in this preferre the practice of the reformed Churches before their owne, and in a manner confesse an error in the allowed practice of the Roman Church? Your Councell commands Pastors that have care of soules, to expound that to the people, which is delivered in the Masse in an unknowne tongue; and doe not those that require the Priests to expound it to the people, shew likewise that without such exposition the people are little better for the Masse, and that the Church intended the people should understand it? What is this else, but to joyne hands with the Protestants, and to acknowledge a reformation needfull in your Church, for requiring Service to bee celebrated in a knowne tongue, that the people may understand it? But that I may make good my assertion, and that the Reader may know I have said nothing but the truth, in affirming the Councell of Trent did make decrees for Reformation for doctrine as well as manners, looke upon the second Session, and tell me if they did not professe a reall intention in both. The words of the Session are these;Concil. Trid. Sess. 2. Whereas it is the speciall care and intention of the Councell, that (the darkenesse of Heresie being expelled, which so many yeares hath covered the earth) the light and purity of the Catholicke truth may shine, through the helpe of Christ which is the true light; and that those things which need reformation may be reformed; the Synod exhorteth all Catholickes assembled, or to be assembled, and especially those who are skilful in the sacred Scriptures, that with continuall meditation they may diligently consider with themselves how these things may bee effected; that they may condemne those things which are to be condemned, and approve those things which are to be approved, that the whole world with one mouth, and confession of one and the same faith, may glorifie God the Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ. Take a review of the words of your Councell; First, Praecipua cura & intentio, ut propulsatis errorum tenebris, quae per tot annos operiarunt terram; the chiefe care to dispell the darkenesse of errour which covered the earth: which words cannot be meant of the Protestant doctrine. For our light is pretended by you to be lately come in, and but in a part or corner of the world. Secondly, peritiam habeant sacrarum literarum, ut sedulâ meditatione secum ipsi cogitent, &c. ut probare probanda, & damnare damnanda queant. There needed not this diligence and skill in Scriptures for Luthers Religion, for they were condemned before by the Pope. Thirdly, Nullus debeat &c. obstinatis disceptationibus contendere, which should not be about Lutheran points, but about doctrines of their owne. Fourthly, in the third Section, de extirpandis haeresibus, &c. which (say they) is adversus spirituales nequitias in caelestibus, which heavenly places are meant by their owne Church, not by Luthers, as is most evident. For they would never acknowledge our Churches heavenly places.
Now I pray, what thinke you of your Councels Decrees? Will not they extend to a Reformation in doctrine? or will you say that Heresies in manners crept into the Church, and the most learned in the Scriptures were chiefly to be imployed for reforming them, that thereby there might be one Faith of Papists and Protestants through the Christian world?De extirpandis haeresibus, & moribus reformandis, quorum causa praecipue est congregata. Sess. 3. Looke upon the third Session, and there likewise you shall finde a Decree for rooting out of Heresies in doctrine, aswell as rectifying of manners and the discipline of the Church; and for both those causes (saith your Decree) the Councell was principally called. It is a most evident truth then (howsoever you redouble the lie upon me) that the Councell did intend a Reformation in doctrine; for otherwise, to what end should the Pope summon all Christian Bishops out of all Nations, even at that time when the Protestants were in number infinite, and had discovered and proclaimed the errors of the Roman Church? Besides, to what purpose were those disputes and oppositions in the Councell against particular points of Doctrine, if they had not beene adjudged erroneous, and needed a reformation? But herein the Reader shall easily discerne the policie of your Church. At the first calling of the Councell (when these first Sessions were made) the number of Bishops were but few, (about 40.) but after the faction of the Popes creatures in multitude prevailed, all hope of reformation was abandoned; And thereupon the Bishops of Apulia publikely declared, that the Trent Fathers were nothing else but the Popes creatures, and his bondslaves; See Crakenthorpe.and accordingly there was an oath proposed severally to be taken in this manner;
I vow and sweare true obedience to the Bishop of Rome, &c. Bulla Pii 4.And all other things likewise doe I undoubtedly receive and confesse, which are delivered, defined, and declared by the sacred Canons, and generall Councels, and especially the holy Councell of Trent; and withall, I condemne, reject, and accurse all things that are contrary hereunto, and all Heresies whatsoever, condemned, rejected, and accursed by the Church; and that I will be carefull this true Catholike faith (out of the which no man can be saved, which at this time I willingly professe and truly hold) be constantly (with Gods helpe) retained and confessed whole and inviolate to the last gaspe; and by those that are under me, or such as I shall have charge over in my calling, holden, taught and preached, to the uttermost of my power: I the said N. promise, vow, and sweare, So God me helpe, and his holy Gospels.
Andr. Dudithius in Ep. ad Maximil. 2.Now what good (saith Dudithius) could be done in that Councell, which onelyonly numbred, but never weighed suffrages? Though our cause was never so good, we could not come off with victory; for to every one of us, the Pope was able to oppose an hundred of his owne. This Author was sent as Ambassador to the Councell from the state and Clergy of Hungarie, and he confirmes what I have testified of their proceedings. But observe the mysterie of iniquitie displayed in your Councell, after it had continued eighteen years, and during the lives of eight Popes, in conclusion they declared in their last Session,Sess. 25. c. 1. Decret. de Refor. p. 312. contrarie to their former decree of Reformation, that the Synod was (chiefly) called for restoring of Ecclesiasticall discipline; and hereby is plainly discovered their deceivablenesse of unrighteousnesse; insomuch as I may truly say with that learned Gentleman and Translator of the Trent Historie, The Bishops of Rome,Sir Nathaniel Brent in Ep. to the Historie of Trent. in stead of being Christs holy Vicars, as they pretend, have beene the greatest, and most pernicious quacksalving Juglers that ever the earth did beare. Those Bishops therefore that boast of the Law of God, and make as it were a covenant with him, to renew the ancient Faith, and restore it to her first integritie (as your Trent Bishops professed) let them consider with themselves how neare that Prophesie of David doth concerne them, who deny a Reformation; For unto the ungodly (said God) why dost thou preach my Lawes, Psal. 50.16, 17.and takest my Covenant in thy mouth, whereas thou hatest to bee reformed, and hast cast my words behinde thee.