Answer Unto Assertion that Church of Rome is the True Church, Assertion 6 – Assertion 7
Assertion.Catholica.
For the fourth the Prophet saith. In omnem terram exiuit sonus eorum,Psalm. 18. Isa. 2. Psalm. 71. Psalm. 21. Psalm. 129. & in fines orbis terrae verba eorum, viz. Apostolorum. Esay the Prophet saith. Fluēt ad eum (scilicet montem Syon) omnes gentes, adorabunt eum omnes Reges, & omnes gentes seruient ei (inquit Propheta regius). & alibi. Apud te laus in Ecclesia magna. Et iterum copiosa apud eum redemptio.Actes. 1. Psalm. 18. Matth. 5. Eritis mihi testes in Hierusalem (inquit Christus) & in omni Iudaea, & Samaria, & vsus{que} ad vltimum terrae. In sole posuit tabernaculū suum (inquit Propheta.Psalm. 18.) Non potest ciuitas abscondi super montem posita: ne{que} accendunt lucernam,Matth. 5. & ponunt eam sub modio, sed super candelabrum, vt luceat omnibus qui in domo sūt (inquit Christus. Turpis est (inquit August.) omnis pars vniuerso suo non congruens:August. lib. 3. …onfes…io. ca. 8. tu cùm te partem cum Christi corporis membrum existimari velis, quae tamē ab hoc vniuerso Christi corpore quae ab omnibus his qui christiani, qui catholici, qui orthodoxi censentur quamlibet magnis & locorum & temporum interuallis inter se desiunctis tā admirabili consensu obseruari vides, vt ne{que} temporum diuersitas, ne{que} linguarum varietas, ne{que} locorum ingens intercapedo laedere concordiam eorum potuerint: Sed similes lirae sint & semper fuerint, quae multas quidē & diuersas habet chordas, vnam tamen symphoniā & sonorum concentum vnū amittit. Tuinquā, eum hoc vniuerso vsus{que} eo nō congruis, vt in despectum vniuersi Christi corporis contraria potius facias omnia. Quid esse potest turpius? Quid indignius homine christiano? aut quae potest esse nota illustrior, qua te non Christi colligentis verum satanae spargētis ministrū esse cuiuis cōstare queat? Haec Aug.
Multa sunt (inquit dictus Aug.) quae in gremio Ecclesiae me iustissimè teneant quae sequuntur.August.
Tenet consensio populorum at{que} gentium.
Tenet authoritas miraculis inchoata, spe nutrita, charitate aucta, vetustate firmata.
Tenet ab ipsa sede Petri Apostoli, cui pascendas oues suas post resurrectionem dominus commendauit vsus{que} ad praesentem Episcopatum successio sacerdotumi.
Tenet postremò ipsum catholicae nomē, quod nō sine causa inter multas haereses sic ecclesia sola obtinuit, vt cū omnes haeretici se catholicos dici velint, quaerēti tamen peregrino alicui vbi ad catholicam conueniatur nullus haereticorum vel basilicam suam vel domum audeat ostendere. Haec ille.
Catholicam dicit toto orbe diffusam quia diuersorum haereticorū ecclesia ideo catholicae non dicuntur, quia per loca at{que} per suas quas{que} prouincias continentur: haec verò à solis ortu vsus{que} ad occasum vnius fidei splendere diffunditur.Aug. serm. 91. de tempor… math. Against the puritans and family of louelove. Non est igitur obscura catholica, non potest abscondi ciuitas super montem posita, non potest ignorari mons qui impleuit vniuersam faciem terrae.
Now we that be the catholiques are ready to shewe and prooue, that the church which we professe hath had and hath all the said foure markes in her, which also had her beginning with Christ, his Apostles, and primitiue churche, and doeth deriue her authority faith and doctrine from them, in a continuall succession of Bishops: which is a moste euident marke of the true Churche and Doctrine: as all the said with diuers others famous and learned auncient Authors affirmeth: of the which some were of the Primitiue Churche, & therfore the meetest iudges thereof.
Answeare.
TOuchinge the fourth noate of the churche, that it is catholique or vniuersall, if you set it against particularity, meaning that the churche is not bounde to any particular place or person we doe imbrace it as a certaine trueth: But if you wil hauehave the Churche alway discerned by the greater multitude, the scriptures will not suffer vsus to ioyne with you in that. Your testimonies out of the Scriptures, as that of Isaie the seconde, and the testimonies next following out of the Psalmes: doe prooue that many people shall bee brought to the true knowledge & worship of god. For the vniuersal note [al] is so takē in the scriptures. And I am perswaded that you doe not thinke that all people and nacions in general shalbe brought to be of the true Churche: but as for comparison, whether that the number shalbe greater or lesse than they that are not brought to the faith, they doe make no mention therof.
The other testimonies doe declare that the trueth shall come into many places, but whether those places shalbe moe or fewer than the reste, or whether the greater nūber of the inhabitātes of those places shalbe gayned by the trueth vntounto God, they doe not speake any woorde thereof: yet I thinke that is the matter that you woulde willingly establishe hereby. Your last witnesse out of the Gospel, if it bee graunted you that it is spoken of the church in general, yet will it make nothing for vniuersality, vnlesse any wil imagine, that whatsoeuer is visible or not hidden, is thereby foorthwith made general & common to al persons and places. You alleage a large testimony for this vniuersality, & doe quote in your margent August. lib. 3. confes. cap. 8. Where there is no more of all you hauehave alleaged to bee founde, saue the first lyne, which is: Turpis enim omnis pars est suo vniuerso non congruens. EueryEvery part is euill fauoured, that agreeth not with his whole. This Authority telleth vsus what worketh the disgrace of a part, euen this not to bee agreeable to that whole wherof he is part: As for your purpose it is to prooue an other thing, that multitude is the beauty & the right note of the Churche: howe that cā be prooued out of this place I leaue it to your better consideratiō, whē you shal hauehave marked those wordes yt doe immediatly goe before this place. Quae autē cōtra mores hominū sunt flagitiapro morū diuersitate vitanda sunt, vt pactū inter se ciuitatis aut gentis, consuetudine vel lege firmatū, nulla ciuis aut peregrini libidine violetur. I feare your Informer hath of purpose concealed the place, from whēce he hath feche that, which he coupleth with this sentence as if it were annexed thereunto: least hee should receiue a wounde that hardly would bee healed, where hee woulde gladly at the least seeme to giuegive one.
The woordes are directed against one man, who differeth from al that are called Christians in any place. This would help you if you had to deale against a sect that had but one patron, or against a man that would be accompted a christian, and yet for al that in doctrine bee contrary to al Christians. It is to weake to stand against a religion, that sundrie coūtries, Prouinces & Kingdomes doe imbrace. Before I had Augustine with a wrong direction, now I hauehave his name without any direction at al Such wordes as you hauehave set down heere are found in his booke contra Epistolam fundamenti, where you conceale that,Aug. contra epistolam fundamenti cap. 4. which vtterly ouerthroweth all the foure notes of your Churche, and proueth them to be altogither insufficient to make true proofe where the Churche is.
These are the woordes that follow in that place. Apud vos autem vbi nihil horum est quod me iuuitet ac teneat, sola personat veritatis pollicitatio, quae quidem si tam manifesta monstratur, vt in dubium venire non possit, praeponenda est illis rebus omnibus quibus in Catholica teneor. But amonge you where there is none of these thinges (saith Augustine:) that maye houlde me, there soundeth the onelyonly promise of trueth, which if it bee shewed so manifest that it can not come in doubt: it is to be preferred before all those thinges, by which I am houlden in a Catholique Church. Hee had spoken before of Vnitie and agreement of people, of authoritie begon with miracles, & increased with charitie, and holy conuersation, of antiquity, and succession of Bishops from Peter vntounto his tyme, & also of vniuersality: and yet he professeth that the trueth when it is made manifest and playne, is to cary vsus against them all. If the trueth bee boūd vntounto Vnitie, successiō, & vniuersalitie, so that these be the markes wherby we are directed to the true church, and therefore to the trueth, by what commission dare Augustine to put them a sunder, whom Almightie God hath ioyned togeather (as you thinke) to continue one for euer. For if they be neuer sundred, why maketh he a supposell of that that neuer happneth, especially dealing with them, that were perswaded that it was not so strange a thing, but that it might yea and had alredy hapned? Or why setteth he, the trueth in specie, that is: The trueth made open & plainly manifested: against those markes of the Church: when as the trueth, whether in parables, playne speach, or howsoeuer, is neuer founde sundred from them as you thinke? Moreouer why doeth he trouble him selfe with comparing of thinges togeather, affirming that the one shall more perswade then the other: if it bee impossible for the one to perswade, but not for the other. For comparison is of those that bee like, but there is no resemblaunce betweene a thing impossible, and that which may bee doone. Laste of all howe agree you with Augustine, that saith, The plaine and vndoubted trueth perswadeth more than them all: When as you are of opinion, not onelyonly that the trueth can not be had plainly, but that it cannot be had at all, but in and by them. You see that Augustine in this place vtterly ouerthroweth the markes and notes that you hauehave made of your Church, letting vsus vnderstande that the trueth may bee sundred from all, euen from the succession of Bishoppes, which you make so great an account of: that (in your opinion) heauen and earth may sooner come togeather, then those two bee parted and put asunder. It standeth you vponupon to make this breach vp againe, if it possibly can be performed of you, for it hath vndone al that you hauehave trauayled in al this time to establishe. It was not without cause therfore that Augustine both came in and went out so like a straunger, as no man coulde knowe (when once hee had made his apparaunce) where too hauehave him againe howe glad soeuer hee woulde hauehave beene, to hauehave spoken with him. But let it be admitted that Augustine spoke of a matter that coulde not come to passe, when hee saide, that the trueth made playne and manifest, was a note of the Churche to be preferred before vnitie, succession vniuersality &c. That which followeth wil declare against whom he obiecteth the name of Catholique: euen agaynst those heretiques, who when they woulde bee called Catholique, yet can but shewe one Churche or one house, where their religion is professed. For these are his words. The Church alone hath so obteined the name of Catholique, that where as all Heretiques would be called Catholiques, yet when a straunger shall aske where men meete at the Catholique Church, none of the Heretiques dare shewe him either their Temple or their house. If Englande, Scotlande, Denmarke, Suetia, Saxony, Heluetia, Retia, Vallis Tellina, Brunswicke, Rhene, Hessia, Wittenberge, Russia, Brandeburge, with the great Cities through the whole Countrey of Germany could shew but one Church, one house, & one prouince or litle Shire among them al, where their religion were professed, or if al these great kingdomes cōmon wealthes & countreies coulde by some conuersion bee turned into one litle prouince, temple, or house, then might this authoritie, or that that followeth out of Augustine, hauehave some colour against vsus. But since, that Gospell which wee professe, at the first did spreade it selfe abroade into infinite places, and was generally receiued, vntil the dominion of that man of sinne, the Pope: vnderunder whom for a long time it was greatly darkened, and now since the late reuiuing againe therof, hath greatly enlarged her dominion & shut you out, not of some fewe houses or prouinces: but out of a number of kingdomes, dominions, common wealthes, & countreys, daily getting ground of you (be your Tyranny and persecution neuer so great) your authorities out of Augustine can stande you in no steede. As concerning the latter part of your last authoritie, which affirmeth that the Catholique Churche by the cleerenesse of one faith spreadeth out it self from the East vntounto the West, yf it bee taken so generally as the woordes seeme too giuegive out of it: it pulleth cleane frō you your title of [Catholique]. For you can not deny but that al the Greeke Churchs vtterly renounce the authoritie of the Bishop of Rome, & the Churches that are scattered here and there throughout all Asia and Africa, in like maner doe not acknowledge it. As for Europe you heard me euen now recite what kingdomes, common wealths and countreies in it, abhorreth the Pope and all his detestable enormities. And in those kingdomes and countries where the Pope is receiued, this I dare say, for you doe prooue it by fire & fagot, that there is no countrey, not Italy it selfe excepted, where there are not great nūbers of people, that from the bottome of their hartes doe detest the Pope. And therefore if you measure vniuersality by place and person, as you are wont to doe: taking that to bee vniuersall which is receiued in all places, and of all persons, you see that your religion commeth far short of a catholique religion. You close vp three lines in the ende closly togither with Augustine his words, as if they were not only spoken at one time & with one mouth, but euen also with one breath. Wheras he hath not one such word there, it is wholy your owne application and conclusion, it is none of his. If a man woulde take suche libertie vntounto him selfe, hee might soone beguile the ignorant reader. I coulde the better hauehave borne this without making any mention therof, yf I had not seene the like in you before, and therfore I cannot but admonish you. This place of Augustine doeth in deede make warre against the Family of louelove, who bring in a religion that neuer was hearde of since the beginning of the worlde, receiued publiquely in any one Prouince, or taught in any one Temple, from the beginning: As for those whom it pleaseth you to cal Puritanes, when you tel me what groūds, of religiō they hold dissēting from the truth, I wyl geue them warning to be in a readinesse to resist you. I knowe none in Englande that eyther woulde be called by that name, or deserue to bee called by it beside the Papist, and the Family of louelove. For the Papists are so ouer pure and perfect in theyr owne iudgement, that they sell the very excrements and superfluitie of their woorkes vntounto others: And as for the Family of louelove, after that a fewe yeeres of theyr Apprentishyp be expired, & they begin to set vp for themselues, they are of opinion, it is no more possible for thē afterward to sinne, than is possible for light to become darkenesse. If those be the true marks of the church in that sence which you doe take them, I see no cause why the Scribes and Pharisees, might not iustly agaynst our Sauiour hauehave claimed the title of the Church. For they were at great vnitie among them selues, so that their Churche might wel hauehave beene called Vna: And they abounded in prayer, fasting, and almes, which you doe simply set downe without any addition, for the fruites of holynesse: and therefore theyr Churche was Sancta: Moreouer they sate in Moses seate, and succeeded him in the Chayre, and therfore they were iustly intituled vntounto succession: and theyr Churche lawfully called Prophetica: which was the same before Christe that Apostolica is nowe: and last of all the greater number went with them agaynst Christe, and therfore theyr Church was Catholica. It is manifest thē that you hauehave saide nothing for your Church, which the scribes & pharisees might not say sor them selues. And if your notes were true, Christe Iesus could neuer hauehave preuayled against them, hauing the true notes of the Churche, and therfore being the true church, against the which nothing can preuaile. The notes that are giuen by the Apostles them selues of the Churche, and wherby they were led to acknowlege any people to be the church of God, were two in nūber: faith in Christ Iesus: and louelove towardes his saintes: according as it is written by the apostle. We giuegive thankes vntounto God, Colloss. 1.4.euen the father of our Lord Iesus Christ, alwaies praying for you, since wee heard of your faith in Christ Iesus, and of your louelove toward al Saints. It appereth hereby, that the Apostle did acknowlege thē for mēbers of the Church, vsing them as brethren in giuing thankes to God, & praiyng for them: after that these tokens of the Churche, too wit, faith in Christ Iesus, & louelove towards his Saintes, did appeare in them through the preaching of the Gospel.Ephesi. cap. 1. ver. 15. The same is confirmed in the Epistle to the Ephesians in the same woordes. Therefore after I hearde of the fayth which you hauehave in the Lorde Iesus, and louelove toward al the Saintes, I ceast not to geue thankes for you, making mencion alwayes of you in my prayers. And not onelyonly the same matter, but euen the verie same manner and forme of woordes, is vsed throughout his epistles, where he hath any occasion offered to touche the same.1. Thes. 1.3. As in the first epistle to the Thessalonians: and in the second also, and the first chapter.ad Phile. 5. In the Epistle to Philemon. In like maner he rehearseth these same two markes: of faith in Christ Iesus, and louelove towardes all Saintes. These were marks that the Apostles were directed by to discerne of the Churche, they thought these sufficient causes to mooue them to thinke of others as their brethren, and the deare Children of God, when as they thorow the preaching of the woorde, were knitte vntounto Christe by faith, and vntounto his children that did serue him after that woorde, by louelove and sincere affection of hearte and good will towardes them. These markes that are noted as the tokens of GOD his children in those firste and mother Churches, can not bee founde with you. For the worde soundeth not among you, which shoulde discouer by the sight of that which the Lord in iustice doth require, so great imperfection to be in vsus: & withal so much merciemercy to bee in Christ, for men that are confoūded in themselues: as would prouoke vsus by faith to repose our selues vponupon him and his mercies. As for the doctrine of your Churche, it so vpholdeth the aptnesse add inclination of man to doe wel, the liberty and freedome of his will, that he cannot come to the sight and knowledge of any so greate want as might sende him hungerly after Christ, and his mercies, to cleaue therevnto by faith: besides that, it doeth so fearefully geue out the affection & disposition of this our mediatour, as if a man coulde not come to the speache of him in the least matter, before halfe the courte of heauen were mooued for that matter, in his behalfe, and shoulde befreend him therein, which turneth our affection & affiance, comfort & confidence rather towarde them, then towardes him. Wherevpon any man may cleerely see and vnderstande, that this Churche of yours is not knit vntounto Christ by faith, And howe it is affected towardes his Saintes who are begotten and borne agayne by the immortal seed of the worde, all the worlde may iudge, and their blood that hath beene so plentifully spilt, hath left in eueryevery kingdome and countrie sufficient witnesses thereof agaynst you.
Assertion.
The true faith and doctrine from the beginning hath ben preserued and kept first by tradition, and then by writing and tradition, in a continuall succession of Bishoppes and Priestes: wherevpon S. Paule writing to the Thessalonians saith,…. Thes. 2. State & tenete traditiones quas didicistis, siue per sermonē, siue per epistolam nostram. Also writing to the Corinthians, wherein hee reprooued them for abusing of the blessed Sacramēt, in the latter end he saith, Caetera autē cū venero disponā: 1. Cor. 11.which was neuer put in writing but alwaies hath continued by tradition in the saide succession vntounto this day, and whiche thinges are vsed at this day. For we doe vse diuerse thinges, yea, such as are necessarie and meete to be vsed, which the scripture maketh no mention of and also otherwise then the Primitiue Church did vse, and nowe allowed of the protestantes, as the baptizing of young children, which Sacrament was not vsed in the primitiue Churche but twise in the yeere, Easter & Whitsontide. The changing of the Sabboth day, from the Saturday to the Sunday. In the primitiue Churche they were in a councell holden commaunded to absteine A sanguine & suffocato, Actes 15.(vt patet in actis) From the whiche wee are discharged not by Scripture, but onelyonly by the authority of the Church, who saith now in the geneneral councels as the Apostles and Elders saide then there, hauing the same holy spirit with them that they had then that is to say, Visum est spiritui sancto & nobis, That nowe by commaundement you shal not absteine A sanguine & suffocato. For such thinges beeing not matters of faith, the Church hath authority to alter and chaunge according to the time and disposition of the people. And also that you shal keepe the Sunday for the Sabboth day, and that you shal baptize children as soone as they be born &c. which things hauehave ben by traditiō receiued frō our elders, which is the sure rule that directeth vsus to truth, by the said testimony of Ieremy the Prophet. viz: State super vias, Iere. cap. 6.& videte & interrogate de semitis antiquis, quae sit via bona, & ambulate in ea, & inuenietis requiem animabus vestris.