Answer Unto Assertion that Church of Rome is the True Church, Answer 5
Answeare.
YOu say there is a continuall succession as well of Bishoppes as of doctrine in the church, from the Apostles time vntounto this. For proofe of your succession as well of Bishoppes as doctrine. You alleage a place out of the Actes cap. 20. ver. 28. Constituit vos spiritus sanctus Episcopos regere ecclesiam Dei, quam acquisivit sanguin… suo. Heere is not one word for succession either of Bishops or Doctrine, no not one word that can bee wrong that way, and I hope you doe remember that to hauehave bene your purpose to prooue. These woordes that you hauehave alleaged, signifie thus much in our tongue: The holy Ghoste hath appointed you Bishops, to gouerne the church of god, which he hath purchased with his bloode. What I pray you is here to bee gathered for continuall succession? In this place the Apostle telleth the Bishoppes of Ephesus that their charg is great, to be betrusted with those whom the Lord hath purchased with no lesse price than his bloode: But as for succession of Doctrine and Bishops, that it shalbe continuall, there is not one worde that soundeth that way. And therefore I pray you euen as you tender your owne saluatiō, that you would not suffer your selues to be carried away with so weake groūds. But I pray you seeinge this witnesse cometh from heauen, let vsus heare more of him. And good reason it is that he shoulde be hearde at large, for he is the onelyonly witnesse that you bringe from aboue, to testifie with you for your doctrine that it is Apostolicall. I pray you read the two verses followinge this, which you hauehave alledged. You shall finde it there written thus. Ego enim, noui hoc, quod ingressuri sunt post discessum meum lupi graues in vos, non parcentes gregi: & ex vobis ipsis exorientur viri loquentes peruersa, vt abducant discipulos post se. Doe you not see that he forewarneth the Bishops of Ephesus to looke wel to themselues, and to their charges, because he knew that after his departure woolues would enter vponupon the flocke, and that out of themselues woulde arise men speaking peruerse thinges to drawe disciples after them. Heere is a prophecy that Woolues shal shortly enter into the flock: Nay which more is, there is heere a foretelling that some of themselues shall degenerat into woolues. This authoritie therefore that foretelleth ye entring in of woolfs, & prophesieth of the degenerating of some of themselues into woolues, is a weake ground to builde succession vponupon, & to perswade vsus that wee ought to imbrace that doctrine, wt can bring for it only succession of good persons or places. If you shal well weigh that place, you shal finde that it is not possible to speake more directly against succession then that place doeth.
Augustine vponupon the Psalme 44. affirmeth that the church may not take her self to be forsaken because she seeth not Peter & Paule, but he prooueth not, neither speaketh so much as one word for a continuall succession of Bishops, to continewe vntounto the end of the world as a marke of the true church, whoe are to deliuer their places orderly, and their doctrine truly without any corruption vntounto others. Peraduenture you thinke that because Augustin interpreteth this place of scripture so, that he will hauehave the childrē to signifie bishops, & then saith in the plural nomber that they shal remember thy name for euer: that therefore there must be a continual succession of Bishops. This error groweth vponupon the ignoraūce of the Hebrew tongue: for ther the berbe is in the singular nōber, & so it is in the trāslatiō of the Septuaginta. It is likewise so interpreted by Hierom, who had more skill in the Hebrew tongue then Augustine had, and referred not vntounto Bishoppes but vntounto the Churche, that shee shall remember the name of the Lord for euer.Hieron. ad princip. virgin. His wordes are these: Regina quae steterat a dexteris tuis in vestitu deaurato, & iussa fuerat obliuisci populi & domus patris sui, iterum illi dictum erat, pro patribus tuis nati sunt tibi filij, constitues eos principes super omnem terram: intelligens quanta sit decoranda gloria, & quibus praemijs subleuanda, conuertit ad sponsum voces suas: & pollicetur recordaturam se semper nominis sponsi, in omni generatione & generatione. You may heare howe Ierome saith it is the Churche that shal remember the name of the lord for euer, and not as you woulde hauehave it the Bishoppes onelyonly.
That the Churche receiueth foure Gospelles and no moe, that it geueth the name of Person & trinity vntounto God, not because the scripture expresly directeth vsus in these thinges, but because it doeth not speake against then (as you say) and because it is so deliuered vntounto vsus from the Apostles: doeth nothing at all prooue, that the groundes of faith & religion which the apostles taught, shall remaine vntounto the ende of the worlde in the safe custody of Bishops: & that they shall truely deliuer thē ouer to their successours, so as we may safely sticke to succession as a true note of the Churche. I doe meruaile that you doe so greatly forget your selfe and the matter that you hauehave taken in hand to proue. Is this the doctrine of the Apostles touching saluation, or their tradition? your purpose is to prooue that the doctrine of the Apostles left in writing cōcerning the grounds of faith & Religiō, is deliuered frō Bishop to Bishop in ye true sense & vnderstāding therof, by a perpetual succession for the benefite of the Churche. Therfore as before you coulde finde no succession of person, so here you faile in finding succession of doctrine. If al that is brought be true, yet is nothing proued but a succession of some tradition. For there is not one word spoken for the reseruing of the scriptures vntounto the church in the true sense and vnderstāding therof. Nowe for the things themselues, the Churche of God by the word tryeth true teachers from false Prophetes, & true Doctrine from counterfaite and corrupt. And so are we exhorted to doe, And albeit the scripture hath not expresly set downe the very woords of Trinity and person, yet hath it set downe al that trueth which is conteined in these woords, wherby the church was directed to make choise of such woordes, for the better explaning of matters in controuersy. It appeareth by Augustine that the Churche had not onelyonly the scriptures not speaking against the name of Trinity, but leading them to to vse that name. His woordes are these. Nobis autem sufficiat scire de Trinitate, August. de temp. sermo. 190.quod Dominus exponere dignatus est: quod ergo dicit ad Apostolos: ite, & baptizate omnes gentes, in nomine patris, & filij, & spiritus Sancti, Tria nomina audio, & vnū dicitur nomen, non enim dixit in nominibus, sed in nomine. You heare Augustine his iudgement that touching the Trinity it is sufficient for vsus to hold that which the lord himself hath declared therin.
The place which you doe alledge out of Irenaeus maketh greatly against you,Iren. lib. 4. ca. 64 and your Churche, and so wil it appeare vntounto any indifferent reader. But you hauehave not dealt simply herein, for ye hauehave kept backe that wt bewrayeth your cause, breaking of the sentence, where ther was no manner of point, no not so much as a comma. I will set downe the whole vntounto you, and let your self be your owne iudge, whether you or whosoeuer did deliuer it vntounto you, hath dealt well and simply herein. Agnitio vera est Apostolorum Doctrina, & antiquus Ecclesiae status in vniuerso mundo & charactere corporis Christi, secundùm successiones Episcoporū, quibus illi eam quae in vnoquoque loco est Ecclesiam tradiderunt, quae peruenit ad nos vsque custodita sine fictione, scripturarum tractatione plenissima, neque ablationem recipieus lectio sine falsatione, & secundum Scripturas expositio legitima & diligens, & sine periculo, & sine blasphemia & praecipuum dilectionis munus quod est preciosius quam agnitio, gloriosius autem quàm Prophetia, omnibus autem reliquis Charismatibus supereminens. Quapropter Ecclesia omni in loco ob eam quam habet erga Deum dilectionem multitudinem martyrum in omni tempore praemittit ad Patrem.
Hee placeth true knowledge in the Apostles doctrine, and in the olde state of the Churche, as knowledge was geuen therof by those Bishops, to whome the Apostles committed the Churches, that were then in the tyme of Irenaeus in any place. All the succession that heere is mencioned, is restreyned vntounto those Bishoppes who weare immediatly after the Apostles, at whose hands they receiued those Churches. Now that this knowledge came truely to him & his time from those Bishops: this induceth him to thinke so, because they receiued frō them, Scripturarum tractationem plenissimam: A plentiful treatise of the Scriptures, without suspiciō of forgery or falsifying. Secondly because they receiued frō them (as hee saith) Expositiones legitimas secundum scripturas, & sine periculo, & sine blasphemia: Diligent and lawfull commētaries & expositions agreable to the scriptures, not conteyninge any blasphemy or errour: Whereas Heretikes will not hauehave their expositions measured by scriptures, but scriptures measured by their expositions & interpretations of them: affirming that they onelyonly hauehave the true sence therof because they are the Church that cannot erre: Thirdly because there was in that auncient state of the Churche to be seene, Praecipuum dilectionis munus: The greatest fruite of louelove euen to offer themselues vntounto martyrdome in great numbers and multitudes, by reason of that louelove which they did beare vntounto God and his Gospel: Multitudinem enim martyrū praemittit ad Deum patrem. If this testimonie of Irenaeus had holpen you, it shoulde not hauehave mencioned those Bishops onelyonly to whom the Apostles deliuered the Churches, but spoken of an orderly succession of them to continue foreuer without anie rstrainte, Neither should he hauehave spoken so spatingly of the matter, as to hauehave saide it came safe to their handes, who were so neere the Apostles time by them who succeeded the Apostles: but without anie suspicion of alteration, he should hauehave geuen it foorth as a matter appointed and established, whereby to keepe doctrine safe vntounto the Church for euer. And last of all he should hauehave suppressed the notes of their faithfulnes, consisting in the reseruing of the scriptures without forgery or falsefiyng: and in warranting their expositiōs by scriptures: & in hauing to be seene the principal effect of louelove: wt is multitudes of martyrs dying for the Gospel, and hauehave sent vsus only vntounto succession, charging vsus to receiue that wt we shal finde obserued there, without any further question, because succession was appointed to bee an infallible note of the Churche in al tymes, which is the piller of trueth. You see he dealeth farre otherwise. If wee had receiued from your Bishops a diligent examination of your writings by the scriptures, (& that ye had not left them & gone to fathers, councels, & traditions, charging vsus to sticke vntounto succession) with that other note which he calleth the principal effect of louelove: than might we hauehave said with Irenaeus, Agnitio vera peruenit vsus{que} ad nos. As this place flatly condemneth your Churche, where there is neither the confirming of your writings & preachings by scriptures, neyther yet that other note of plentifull witnessing to the trueth by death and martyrdome, so doeth it strongly establishe ours, and iustifie it to hauehave true knowledge in it, and to bee agreable to the ancient estate of the churche, because those three notes that hee speaketh of are apparantly to be seene in our churches. For we hauehave the scriptures plentifully set foorth, we warrant our expositions by scriptures: & we hauehave & doe sende daily multitudes of martyrs vntounto the father, whoe testifie his trueth vntounto the world, & seale vp the assurance therof with their blood. Your other place out of Irenaeus doth help your cause no more then the former. Nay the circūstāces of the place doe vtterly ouerthrowe the meaninge that you would make of it. Which that it may plainly appeare I wil set downe vntounto you togither with your place, those wordes also that goe in order and next before & after it.Iren. aduersus haereses Valenti. lib. 4. cap. 4…. Intelligentes fulgebunt quemadmodum claritas firmamēti, & a multis iustis sicut stellae in secula. Et adhuc quēadmodum ignur ostēdimus siquis legat scripturas. Etenim dominus sic disseruit discipulis post resurrectionē suam a mortuis, & ex ipsis scripturis ostēdēs eis quoniā oportebat pati Christum & intrare gloriā suā, & in nomine eius remissionem peccatorum praedicari in toto mundo, & erit consummatus discipulus & similis patrifamilas, qui de thesauro suo profert noua & vetera. Quapropter eis qui in ecclesia sunt presbiteris ob audire oportet, qui successionem habent ab Apostolis sicut ostendimus, qui cum Episcopatus successione charissima veritatis certum, secundum placitum patris acceperunt. Reliquos verò qui absistunt a principali successione, quocunque loco colligantur suspectos habere, vel quasi haereticos & malae sententiae, vel quasi scindentes & elatos & sibi placentes, aut rursus vt hypocritas questus gratia & vanae gloriae hoc operantes. Omnes autem hi decedūt a veritate, et haeretici quidē alienum ignem afferentes ad altare dei, id est alienas doctrinas, a caelesti igne comburentur, quemadmodum Nadab & Abiu. The matter he speaketh of immediatly before, is to declare what excellencie a man atteineth vntounto by the reading and knowledge of the Scriptures, & yt our sauiour Christ prooued after his resurrection vntounto his disciples out of ye scriptures, that christ ought to suffer and so enter into his glorie: and thereunto addeth that he is a good disciple & like vntounto ye good man of the house, who bringeth out of his treasure prouision newe and olde: Immediatly hereupon he bringeth in that sentēce which you alleage wherefore we must obey those Bishoppes that are in the Church, who togither with the succession of their bishoprickes, hauehave receiued the sure gift of trueth, according to the good will of the father. There is not secundùm impositionē manuum, as you woulde willingly gather. All his speach before was of the trueth and scriptures of God, this that you hauehave alleaged beginneth with the note of illation or inferring [Quapropter] wherfore, &c. And the thing brought in therevpon is, that those Bishops ought to be obeied, who hauehave receiued the grace & gift of trueth according to the good pleasure of the father: All other which hauehave not this principal successiō of truth, he maketh either heretikes, schismatiques, or hypocrites, affirming that they fall from the trueth which before he had called the principall succession. And continuing stil in the same matter he affirmeth that those who bring strange fire, that is (as hee interpreteth it) straung doctrine, shalbe burnt wt heauenly fire as was Nadab & Abiu. So that ye whole chapter rūneth vponupon the word of god & true doctrine, which he calleth the principall succession, without the which he would hauehave vsus to suspect any bishop what succession soeuer he had of place. And if al this can not satisfie you, that his meaninge is to make no accompt of succession of person & place, whē the principall succession of trueth is wanting: turne vntounto the next chapter, wher the same matter is continued, & there you shal find these words. Ab omnibus igitur talibus absistere oportet, adhaerere vero his, qui & Apostolorum (sicut praediximus) doctrinā custodiunt et cum presbyterij ordine sermonē sanum & conuersationē sine offensa praestāt, ad informationē & correctionē reliquorū. Where you may plainely see what succession he spoke of before, euen the successiō of the Apostles doctrine. Al the patching & piecing in the world, can neuer make hole this breach that Irenaeus hath made into your successiō of persons, & you may clearly vnderstād what cost & paines you hauehave bestowed in vaine, in labouring to bring in your sacrament of orders & imposition of hands, as being vnderstood by that, which he calleth the gift or grace of trueth. If the word [trueth] can not moue you, the circūstāces (if ye wil not bee willingly blinded) cā not but perswade you. I doe therfore wt your owne authoritie reply against you, that al those are to bee suspected, what successiō soeuer they bring of person or place, that bring not wt thē the principal successiō, wt is the doctrine of the Apostles. If true doctrine went alwaies with succession of bishops, what nedeth Iren. to speake of any diuorse betweene thē? nay, what nedeth hee to wil vsus to looke vntounto the trueth making the principal successiō, yt as for your neighbours that stād in the margēt, if your weapon were answerable to your good will, I would tell them, that you hauehave bid battaile vntounto them: But in as much as I see you fal downe in the fielde, your owne weapon taken out of your hand, & your self woūded withal, I hauehave more pitty of you, thā of thē: & therfore there shal no beacō burne (by my cōsent) to warne any to beware of warre frō you: vntill I see you recouered of som of those dāgerous woūds, that you hauehave taken already.
From Irenaeus you passe to Tertullian, with whom it will fall out, that you shall finde as little helpe for your purpose, as you hauehave had before from Irenaeus. And because you suppresse alwaies that that maketh against you: I am here inforced, as before, to set downe that which immediatly goeth before, and also followe the woordes by you alleaged.Tertul. de praescrip. aduersus. haereticos. Caeterùm si quae audent interserere se etati Apostolicae vt ideo videātur ab Apostolis traditae, quia sub Apostolis fuerunt: possumus dicere, Edant ergo origines ecclesiarum suarum: euoluant ordinem episcoporum suorum, ita per successiones ab initio decurrentem, vt primus ille episcopus aliquē ex apostolis vel Apostolicis viris, qui tamen cum Apostolis perseuerauerit habuerit authorem & antecessorem. Hoc enim modo ecclesiae Apostolicae census suos deferunt, sicut Smyrnaeorū ecclesia habēs Policarpum ab Ioanne collocatum refert, sicut Romanorum, Clementem a Petro ordinatum edit, proinde vtique & caeterae exhibēt, quos ab Apostolis in episcopatu cōstitutos Apostolici seminis traduces habeant. Confingant tale aliquid haeretici.
Quid enim illis post blasphemiam illicitum est? Sed & si confinxerint, nihil promouebunt. Ipsa enim doctrina eorum cum Apostolica comparata, ex diuersitate & contrarietate sua pronunciabit, ne{que} Apostoli alicuius Autoris esse, ne{que} Apostolici. Quia sicut Apostoli nō diuersa inter se docuissent, ita & Apostolici non contraria Apostolis aedidissent, nisi illi qui ab Apostolis desciuerūt, & aliter praedicauerunt. Ad hanc itaque formam prouocabuntur ab illis Ecclesiis, quae licet nullum ex Apostolis vel apostolicis autorē suum proferāt, vt multò posteriores: quae deni{que} quotidie instituuntur: tamen in eadem fide conspirantes, non minùs apostolicae deputantur pro consanguinitate doctrinae. Ita omnes haereses ad vtram{que} formam à nostris Ecclesiis prouocatae, probent se quaqua putant Apostolicas. If any would therfore be accompted Apostolicall churches, because they liued vnderunder the apostels, & in their time: let such churches shew what Apostle did first founde theirs (saith Tertull.) Wee are not in theire tyme, neither claime wee priuiledge in any such respect: but marke what followeth: If they could forge such a succession (saith hee) belike then it is not altogither vnpossible so to doe, yet would it helpe them nothing, because the Apostles doctrine compared with theirs, would bewray it not to bee the Apostles nor Apostolical. You hauehave cause therefore to bee ashamed euer hereafter, to make successiō of bishops a necessary note of the church, wt by Tertull. his iudgement is subiect to forgery, & if it were not, yet could not proue any ting at al (as he saith) when the doctrine of the Apostles shallbe found diuerse and disagreeing from theirs. You may see that he wil hauehave the Apostles doctrine, to confute & ouerthrowe that succession which vpholdeth any doctrine contrary or diuerse from theirs. And consider this one thing wel I pray you, that he saith Heretikes are to be brought to the triall of the Apostles doctrine, by those Churches which albeit they bring none of the Apostles nor Apostolicall men for theire Authors and first founders (as being a long tyme after them) yet are neuer a whit the lesse to be accōpted Apostolicall, by reason of their kindred & alliaūce wt the Apostles doctrine. He affirmeth plainely and in expresse woordes, that the churches which were long after the Apostles tyme, are to be tried whether they be apostolical or no, by that Doctrine which the Apostles deliuered: But as for these Churches that were next vntounto the Apostles time, they dare be boulde (saith hee) to prouoke Heretikes ioyntly to the triall of succession as wel of person, as of doctrine. Succession therfore of Bishops is (by Tertullian his iudgement) no triall of Churches at this time, his authoritie hath vtterly euerthrowē that holde of yours. Marke wel the words for they are Tertullian his woordes and not myne. Ad hanc ita{que} formam prouocabuntur ab illis Ecclesiis, quae licet nullum ex apostolis vel Apostolicis viris authorē suum proferunt, vt multò posteriores, quae deni{que} quotidie instituuntur, tamen in eadem fide conspirantes, non minùs Apostolicae deputantur pro consanguinitate Doctrinae.
From this place of Tertullian wee hauehave a playne Doctrine, that whatsoeuer the fathers hauehave spoke for succession of Bishops, as a marke to make knowne the true church: by the same is to be restreined vntounto those tymes that were nere vntounto the Apostles. For of other churches hee saith, albeit they bring none of the Apostles or Apostolical men for there authours, as being long after them: neuerthelesse agreeing with them in faith and Doctrine, they are to be accompted Apostolical as well as the other, because of their alliance by Doctryne. The very woordes that immediatly goe before these which you hauehave alleaged, do put the matter out of doubt, that this triall of succession is onelyonly ment for such Churches as were nere the Apostles time. His woordes are these: Caeterùm si quae audent interserere se aetati Apostolicae, vt ideo videantur ab Apostolis traditae, quia sub Apostolis fuerunt, possimus dicere: Edāt ergo origines Ecclesiarum suarum, euoluant ordinem Episcoperum suorum, &c. But if any dare intrude themselues into the Apostles tyme, that they should be accompted Apostolicall, because they were vnderunder the Apostles: we may say let those then shew the original of their Churches, let them recite the order and succession of their Bishoppes. I hope nowe Syr that you doe plainely see, what little helpe you hauehave frō these authorities that are alledged by you: & that you doe wel consider howe vnfaithfully they hauehave bene aduouched, what cutting and paringe you hauehave made of them, and howe that ther is not one of your witnesses brought to prooue your Churche to be Apostolical, if you had suffered him to tell out his tale, and not stopped his mouth in the middest of his speach: but woulde hauehave vtterly ouerthrowne your cause, and established ours which you labour to ouerthrowe. And therefore I doe beseech you in the feare of God to looke well vntounto it. Peruse the places againe, consider better of them, and marke the iudgements of god vponupon you & your cause, that your very witnesses shoulde be wray you, euen those that you deliberatly & of purpose hauehave picked out to speake for your purgation. If I might hauehave prescribed those fathers what to say against your cause, and for ours: I coulde hauehave deuised no better matter than they hauehave vttered, euē in the places by you alleaged. Irenaeus saith plainely that the trueth hath discended from the Apostles to his tyme without forgery: because the scriptures were faithfully deliuered vntounto them: and because all their commentaries and expositions were warraunted by the Scriptures: You doe not warrant your expositions by Scriptures, but contrarywyse will hauehave the Scriptures to hauehave warrant from your expositions: for you must geue the sense and meaninge thereof, because it is of and in it selfe, as you saye afterward, Mortua vox, a dead word.
Hee saith in the other place, that those Bishoppes, that depart from the principall succession of true doctrine, whatsoeuer they hauehave to say for their succession of person and place, are notwithstanding to bee suspect of Heresy or schisme.
What neede was there to make mencion of the trueth, as the principall succescion, that we shoulde be suspicious of those Bishops, that had no such succession from the Apostles: if the succession of the trueth be (as you say) kept and reserued in a continuall orderly succession of Bishoppes: if whersoeuer that succession bee of persons, the other of Doctrine bee vnseperably bounde thereunto. For if wheresoeuer there be this succession of Bishoppes, ther wee must looke vndoubtedly to hauehave the trueth, then is that of person, the principal succession, and the other of trueth, but a companion, that wayteth and geueth dayly and dutifully attendance thereupon. If this bee so, then wee are first to inquire after the succession of persons, being assured there to finde the trueth: And in deede your proofes such as they be, are wholy alleaged for succession of person, belike if you coulde finde that, you woulde not greatly passe for finding the trueth. You are contrarie to Irenaeus herein, who maketh succession of trueth, the principall succession. As for Tertull. hee affirmeth plainly, that the doctrine of the apostles wil cōfute them, whosoeuer shall bring a diuerse doctrine, albeit they alleage for thē successiō of persons as you doe from the Apostles: Ipsa enim inquit doctrina eorum cum Apostolica comparata, ex diuersitate & contrarietate sua pronunciabit, ne{que} Apostoli alicuius esse ne{que} Apostolici. Hee affirmeth likewise that the churches who were long after the Apostles tyme, are to trie themselues Apostolical by their alliance wt the Apostles in doctrine. Ad hanc ita{que} formā prouocabūtur ab illis Ecclesiis, quae licet nullum ex Apostolis vel Apostolicis authorem suum proferunt, vt multò posteriores: tamē in eadem fide conspirantes, non minùs. Apostolicae deputantur pro consanguinitate doctrinae. You see what helpe we hauehave for our religiō, out of your strongest houldes. We hauehave in the scriptures the authenticall letters and Epistles of the Apostles, conteyninge the summe of that Doctrine, which they taught in those Churches that they planted which are rightly called by Tertullian the mother Churches. Wee hauehave the summe of that Doctrine left vsus in wryting, which Paule taught at Rome, at Corinth, at Philippos, at Ephesus, and at Thessalonica, where hee founded Churches. You should first hauehave warrāted your religiō by that doctrine, & frō thence hauehave proceeded to let vsus vnderstand, how that doctrine hath continued amongst you from time to time. You would beare the worlde in hand, that you deriue your doctrine frō the Apostles and auncient Churches, yet you shunne as rockes all triall by the Apostles and those mother Churches, where their Chaires were placed, and their owne doctrine faithfully vnderunder their owne hands and seales deliuered. Let vsus first see how you doe agree with the Apostles themselues, and then with those Bishops who hauehave succeeded them: how with the first & mother Churches, and then with those latter who hauehave beene planted after them. Let vsus see you first knit vntounto the heade, and then vntounto the members. After your testimonies and allegations for succession, you adde these wordes: Now ye see that the true and verie Church of Christ is, which hath her succession of Bishops from the Apostles: Wherunto I answer that there is no eye so sharpe of sight, that cā discerne any such matter, by those proofs that you hauehave brought: but eueryevery man that hath not his eyes closed vp, may see plainly (by that light which your owne witnesse hauehave geuen vntounto this cause) that succession of Bishops is no note nowe in these later tymes whereby to discerne the Churche.
You inferre likwyse vponupon such authorities as you hauehave aduouched, that the ancient state of the Churche through the worlde is the Apostles doctrine. I knowe you can hauehave no colour for any such collection, vnlesse you take liberty to chaung and transpose Est for &, and & for est, after your pleasure: that whereas Irenaeus saith, Agnitio vera est Apostolorum doctrina & antiquus Ecclesiae status: You reade: Agnitio vera & Apostolorum doctrina est antiquus Ecclesiae status. As for those printes and markes of the olde state of the Churche, which were in Irenaeus his time, I proued before that they where cleane worne out, and no token of them to bee seene among you: for your expositions are not legitimat by Scriptures, but laid vponupon vsus by vertue of the Churche, whereof you stil plead possession, howe vniust soeuer your title bee.
You woulde gladly find out of these words. Certum charisma veritatis: The Sacrament of orders: which you say is receiued together with their Bishopriks: but the circumstāces of that place make the matter so plaine to be ment of the gift or grace of trueth, which hee calleth the principall succession, as no man that will vouchsafe to reade and compare it with that which goeth before and also followeth it, can possibly bee brought to make a doubt thereof. From your holy orders which you woulde wring out of this place, you proceede I wil not say without order, I am sure without any occasion offered to the manner of ordayning Bishoppes, …hich you say must be by the laying on of handes of former Bishoppes so ordeined, or otherwise they are not to bee obeyed.
So that you secretly shoote at the ministery of the church of Englād, that it is vtterly vnlawful & not to bee obeyed, because our bishops wt hauehave ordeined others, were not themselues ordeined of your Bishops, that were before them. Doe you say that no man is a lawfull Bishop, but he that is ordeined of another Bishoppe? If that be true thē I dare say and can plainly prooue, that your Bishops are vnlawfull Bishops,Hieron. ad Euagr. Titus. 1. ver. 5.7. and therefore not to be obeyed. For from the beginning (as Hierom testifieth) there was no difference in the church betweene a bishoppe and a minister: but afterwarde when schismes grewe to be many and great in the Church, for the suppressing thereof one was appointed to be aboue the rest, which had the name of Bishoppe proper vntounto him, which before was common vntounto all, as the Scripture declareth. In those first times therefore of schisme, those Bishoppes must of necessitie be ordeined of others then bishoppes: because there were then no bishoppes in the Church, as now we doe speake of thē. And therefore by your owne reason, your owne bishops being as you affirme from the beginning, are illegitimate and not to be obeyed, because they were not ordeined of former Bishoppes: nowe that if they were not lawfully ordeined thē selues, thē could they not lawfully ordeyned others: for other title then they had them selues they could not geue vntounto others. By this descriptiō that you hauehave made of the lawfull ordeining & creating of bishops, ye whole broode of your bishoppes from the first vntounto the last, standeth illigitimate & plainly conuicte of bastardie. We know and are assured by the truth of GOD his woorde, that it is lawfull for ministers of the word, to ordein them who are to labour in the ministerie of the woord: for thus we reade in the Epistle to Timothie. 1. cap. 4. 1. Tim. 4.Ne neglige illud donum quod datum est tibi per prophetiam cum impositione manuum praesbiterij. Now there is no man, howe ignorant soeuer he be of the Scripture, or of the Greek tongue in the which the newe testament was penned, if he hauehave any skill in the Latine: that wil deriue Presbyterium, non à presbyteris, sed ab Episcopis. You may perceiue thē that they were praesbiteri and not Episcopi ministers or elders, and not bishops (as now we speake of Bishoppes) that laide handes vponupon Timothie, when hee was called to the Ministerie of the woorde. You see therefore that at the ordeyning of Timothie they were presbyteri elders or Ministers of the woorde, which gaue this grace by the imposition of their hands, which you say can not bee geuen but by Bishoppes. Now if presbyteri Ministers of the word, may ordeyne other by impositiō of hands. thē I truste we shal hauehave you more fauorable hereafter to ye Ministery here in England. If we hauehave nothing els to saye for it, yet at the least because they who in these last tymes hauehave bene the instrumentes of God to reforme Religion, and hauehave ordeined others to serue in the Ministery of the word and Sacramentes, were presbyteri: hauing from your Churche imposition of handes, whereby there is so great grace giuen as you saye.
True it is that imposisition of handes was a consecration and putting a parte of men to serue in the Ministery of the woorde, by attending vponupon reading, exhortation, and doctrine: accordinge as the Apostle declareth in this fourth chapter of Timothie: for when hee hath willed Timothie to attend vponupon reading, exhortation, and doctrine, forthwith signifying that hee was called thereunto, and that it was his function to the end hee might therby the more bee touched with the matter, hee addeth these wordes: Neglect not that gift or function which was committed vntounto thee by imposition of handes.
This marke of that vocatiō which doeth consist in attending vponupon exhortation and doctrine continued in your Churche, Tanquam cadauer verae vocationis, as it were a carkas of a true calling: for you attended not vponupon the worde setting it foorth truely by exhortation and doctrine, which was the life of that calling: but found a greater gaine to get mony by, in attending vpō the sale of masses and pardons, hauing greate gaine not only by thē that were liuing: but also by those that were long ago departed: so that in verie deed there was nothing remaining beside the corps of the true calling. VntoUnto this carkas and corps of the true calling, it pleased the Lorde in that great merciemercy wherwith hee loued vsus, when wee were enemies vntounto him: now againe in these latter daies after so lōg want therof, to breath in life & vital spirites: geuing vntounto diuerse who had no more beside the olde marke of that calling, not only giftes of knowledg to be able: but of zeale also to be willing & boulde, euen whē the market of your Inuentions & Traditions was the greatest to publishe the Gospel of God, & to beate down your inuentions by doctrine & exhortatiō out of the word: giuing foorth euidēt testimonies thereby, that they were the true & lawful ministers of Christ, bebecause they had the trueth and life of the Ministerie, which in your Church was wanting, in as much as they did attend vppon exhortation and doctrine, according to the trueth of the woorde, wherevnto in the Primitiue Churche men were appointed by imposition of handes. You speake nothing here of that which is principall, that is of the election vntounto that place and function after due examination had before, both of life and learning, without the which al your purest Canons account him as a Leyman, & appoint grieuous punishment for him that shall otherwise ordeine him: but so you hauehave the shadowe, you passe not for the bodie: so you may enioy the least of the accessaries, you can willingly want the principal. The occasion that you hauehave offered in ascribing so much to the imposition of handes, hath drawne me beside my purpose and meaning to speake, as you hauehave already heard touchinge that matter.