The Unreasonableness of the Separation Made Apparent 2, Part 1 · Reason 6 – Reason 7
The sixth R…ason.
Fr. Iohnson.
If the present ministerie of the Church of En land be a strange ministery then is it not Lawfull in the wor…ip o… God, to heare it, or have any …pirituall communion therewith.
But such is the ministery of the Church-assemblys of England.
Therefore it is not Lawfull in the wor…p o… God to heare it, or have any spirituall communion there with.
The Assumption is manifest; for a strange ministery is that which is not by the Law ordained and given for that worke …s them…e…ves heretofore have published; and as is prooved in the first Rea…on.
VV. Bradshaw
This reason differeth not in substance from divers of the former: for what is it to be a strange ministerie, but to be a ministerie that is not let by Christ in his Church? which is his first reason: but to be a ministery, which deriveth not the power and function from Christ? which is his 4. reason: but to be a ministery that worketh upon mens consciences by vertue of a false spirituall calling? which is his 5. Reason. Might he not with a great facility, out of this methode of reasoning have brought forth 7000. reasons, as these 7? But how doth he proove the Assumption of his reason? by sending us back again, as you may see to the 1. reason. So that all the reason of this reason is borrowed from the first reason; and is answered allready in the answere thereof.
But before he passeth to the next reason, he runs out after the wonted fashiō, into an idle discourse, nothing at all appertaining to the argument in hand; bringing in some idle observations upon the story of Corah, Dathan and Abiram, & allso of Naaman, falsely misapplyed unto our Church-assemblys and ministery. For he taking it as granted, or as a thing that could not be denyed him; that our ministery is Antichristian, and that our worship is idolatry, he makes our ministers and people, oven the best of them, wors than Corah, Dathan and Abiram, and them which were of theire conspiracy, & our assemblys and worship as bad as the temple of Rimmon, & the idolatrie therein performed. And where he brings the example of Naaman, as brought by some of us to justify our joining with our Church-assemblys; I perswade my self he doeth against the knowledge and light of his own conscience belye us: & that there cannot be one of us brought forth, that ever made this plea. We holde it as unlawfull (as themselves) outwardly & but in appearance to joine with idolaters, in their idolatry; & yet wee see not warrant why every particular act, that in a large sense is idolatrous, adjoyned to Gods true worship, we should forbeare our presence, as the true worship it selfe: Or that our presence for the true worships sake alone, should in respect of some point of false worship thereunto annexed be, (as he speaketh) the submitting our bodies to a strange worship: Especially when we are not particular Actors in it, but onelyonly present, beholding it with griefe, and suffering it in others for the true worships sake, unto which it is adjoynd. If this should be held unlawfull; then can no man present himselfe with a good conscience, at any publick worship of God wheresoever; because (except it should be stinted and prescribed, which Maister Iohnson holds to be a false worship,) he can have no assurance, but that some errors in matter or forme will be committed: yea if he bee a man of understanding and learning, he may presume in a manner, that in the publick worship some error or other, in matter or forme, greater or lesser will be committed, before which he must present himselfe. But what? were the Iewish Synagogues in Christs time free from all parts of false worship? the Scripture witnesseth the contrarie. Did they, when Christ came into their assemblys, forbeare them? the Scripture confirmes the contrary. Was Christs presence then, (as here he saith our presence is) a very bowing down unto them? was he also therein an unconscinable dissembler? did he therein imbrace the bosome of strangers, breake his covenant, goe a whooring with the inventions of man? for such fire as this he spitts at us if not, why should it be such a sin in us, who have not such eyes to peirce into the impietie of mans traditions, as our Saviour had?
1. To this Maister Can replieth, that if it be unlawfull, as Maister Bradshaw saith, outwardlie, and but in appearance, to joyne with idolaters in theire idolatry, then Maister Bradshaw sheweth himselfe an unreasonable man, in persuading them to return to return to our service; for that it were by our own grounds to joine with idolaters in their idolatry.
A peremptorie reply, you see, but without proofe; unles you will take I know not what grounds, of I know not whome, (for none are named, nor so much as once pointed to) for currant paiment in a point of such importance.
2. He demandeth what Scriptures witnes, that there was false worship in the Iewish Synagogues, and of what kinde it was; And requireth of this proofe, that Christ was present where and when the same was pra…ised.
Which so farforth as it is by Maister Bradshaw affirmed, is no hard matter to proove: for taking false worship in a large sense, as he there saith it may be, (in way of answere to maister Iohnsons indistinct and indefinite speech of it,) for any error either in matter or manner of performance, it is apparent by our Saviours own refuting of them, that the Scribes and Pharisees, the chiefe & common teachers of those times, were very faulty in either. And it is as apparent, that our Saviour notwithstanding the same, did usually frequent theire assemblys: nor is it likely, that for his presence they forbore their usuall manner either of preaching or practise.
And this is all that he affoordeth us in defence of maister Iohnsons sixt Reason. For of the next, as indeed it well deserved, he hath not a word.
The seventh Reason.
Fr. Iohnson.
If the present ministerie of the Church of England be not from heaven, but of men, then it is not Lawfull in the worship of God, to heare, or have any spirituall communion therewith.
Such is the ministery of the Church-assemblys of England.
Ergo, It is not Lawfull in the worship of God, to have any spirituall communion there with.
The Assumption is evident: because God hath not appointed the ministerie of the Church-assemblys, but man; as appeares by theire booke of ordination: and if they will say the contrarie, let them shew their calling out of the word of God.
VV. Bradshaw
This Reason is the very same with the 4. 5. and 6. and hath no ground or proofe, but from them: and therefore is answered also in the answere of them. And this may be sufficient to shew that our ministery is from heaven, when so malitious and exercised an adversary, whose whole religion seemes to lie in opposing to our ministery, can say no more against it.