Archbishops to be Cut Off — Hezekiah Woodward

Archbishops to be Cut Off · Hezekiah Woodward

A DIALOGVE, ARGVING That Arch-Biſhops, Biſhops, Curates, Neuters; All theſe are to be cut off by the Law of GOD; therefore to be caſt-out by the Law of the Land.

THey that have don the ſame abominations, for the committing whereof their fathers and brethren, in former ages, have been, by the law of God, cut off from the earth; Theſe ought, by the law of man, to be Caſt-out of the Land: The Arch-biſhops and Biſhops have committed theſe abominations, for which others, in ancient times, have ſuffered death; Therefore theſe ought to be throwne-out of the Land, by the Law of the Land.

I deny that the Biſhops have committed ſuch abominations.

They have committed the ſame abomination (I will inſtance in particulars) againſt the Day of Gods worſhip, which, one man having committed, was, by the command of God, cut off from the earth.Numb. 15 35▪

I am not ſo ſlenderly read, but I know whom you mean by that one man, him that gathered ſticks upon the Sabbath, and was by the command of God put to death for ſo doing; But you can never prove, that the Arch-biſhops and Biſhops, gathered ſticks upon the Lords day; neither their graces, nor their Lordſhips would ſtoop ſo low, I am confident of that: And as confident I am, that they did not commit the ſame Abomination.

Your confidence will deceive you, and you muſt forſake it: The Biſhops have committed the ſame abomination with an higher hand, and a more open face. I ſay, the ſame in your ſenſe, Firſt,

(1) They commanded Ruſhes to be gathered againſt the Lords day: And when the people ſhould be preparing themſelves to their ſolemne addreſſe before the Lord, they were commanded to beſtrew the Chappell with Ruſhes; A ſervice not worth a ruſh, but a notorious diſ-ſervice to the Church, and ſcorne to the Lord of the day; But the Biſhops would ſhew their power.

(2) The ſame in your ſenſe and underſtanding; The Biſhops commanded the people to gather flowers, therewith to plat a garland, and to ſet it upon a May-pole; To the intent the people might, upon the Lords day, dance about it with more chearfulneſſe. O yee heavens! be aſhoniſhed at this! Never the like diſhonour to the Lord Chriſt, ſince their forefathers platted a crown of Thornes for his head. But I go on.

(3) The ſame in our ſenſe and true conſtruction; For you muſt not conceive, that the man was ſtoned for gathering ſticks; there was more in it then a bare action; there was a malignancy in it; As his need might have required, he might have gathered ſticks, and kindled them upon the Sabbath day too, and have given a good account for ſo doing: As a more toyleſome work might have been don, and is don upon the Lords day, then is ſtrewing of Ruſhes; But there muſt be a command for doing it, if not from GODS mouth, yet from mans neceſſitie, that has a command: If you obſerve the Context, this one man did preſumptuouſly; he needed a fire no more then others of his brethren, yet he would preſume above all; he would try the Patience of the Lord; and, in ſo doing, he reproached the Lord, ſayes the Text: his action was preſumptuous, a reproaching Ver. 30.of the Lord. The Arch-biſhops and Biſhops did the ſame abomination; The ſame! They did more preſumptuouſly; They did▪ reproach the Lord; never any, from the beginning of the world to that day, did ſo preſumptuouſly as they did; never did any of the Heathen ſo reproach their gods, which yet were no gods, as theſe have reproached the God of gods, and Lord of Lords; and ſo have been an inlet to that fire, which now rageth in the Land; They have been a means (I would take no man off from communing with his owne heart, and enquiring how willing he was to have it ſo) They have been a means to make our Land a Tabherah; Becauſe of the fire of the Lord amongst us aNumb. 11. 3.. I demand then, Is the Law of the LORD cleare, for the cutting-off theſe men?

Yes, thoſe that have committed that abomination; but all the Biſhops have not don ſo.

You ſhall have free libertie, to ſpeake-out, and what you have to ſay for them, anon. This is to our purpoſe now; That the Law was clea…e, for the cutting off that one man; muoh more for the cutting off theſe men, who were guides unto others; had a clearer light than he had; did more preſumptuouſly, more reproached the Lord, than he did; The clearer the light, the clearer the Judgement; And the clearer God… Law is againſt them, for the cutting of them off; the clearer the Law of the Land is againſt them, for the caſting of them forth.

But you have charged this upon the King.

Not I, The King of Kings has charged this blaſpemy, has laid this burden upon the Kings ſhoulders; yet ſo, as it is not a graine the lighter upon the Biſhops ſhoulders. It is charged upon the King, decreing that blaſphemous decree; upon the Biſhops, preſcribing the ſame: Upon the King, as chiefe Author; Upon the Biſhops, as Inſtruments. Woe Iſa. 10. 1. Vae auctoribus maleficiorum tum etiam adminiſtris. Wo to the Authors of wicked decrees, and to the Miniſters executing the ſame. Iſa. 10. 1… Trem. Iſa. 10. 3. Jer. 13. 1…. Act. 9. 26.unto both, ſayes the LORD, And what will you doe in the day of viſitation, and in the day of deſolation, to whom will they flee for helpe? They have defiled their Sanctuary, polluted their Lords day, reproached the LORD of the Day. Say unto the King, and to his Biſhops, Humble your ſelves, ſit downe, for your principalities ſhall come downe, even the Crowne of your glory. And untill the King, chiefe in the treſpaſſe, ſhall ſay ſo much to his own ſoule, and not onelyonly ſay it, but be indeed and in truth humbled for it, giving cleare demonſtrations thereof in all the peoples ſight, till he ſayes ſo, and does ſo humble himſelfe, his good people will be as jealous of him, as afraid of him joyning with his Parliament, as the Diſciples were of Paul, when he would joyne himſelfe with them; They were all afraid of him, and beleeved not that he was a Diſciple; This is he, ſaid they, who compelled the people to blaſpheme, and perſecuted the Saints to ſtrange Cities; Therefore Pauls repentance was as fully declared as his ſin was, and then he was truſted, and not before. I proceed to a ſecond Argument.

II Argument. The Biſhops have blaſphemed, &c.

You have ſaid enough, if you can prove that.

I prove it firſt, They ſaid they are Biſhops, when they were not; for they did nothing as became Biſhops.

Is it blaſphemy to ſay, Wee are, what indeed wee are not?

Yes, in Gods account, and He can beſt judge of Blaſphemy; I know, ſayes the Spirit, the blaſphemy of them, who ſay they are Jewes, and they Rev. 2. 9.are not; What was their blaſphemy? Surely, wee know no other but this, They ſaid they were, what they were not; That was their blaſphemy: And it is of high conſideration, & of the ſame concernment to us Chriſtians, to teach us To be, what wee ſay wee are.

The Biſhops ſaid they are Biſhops, and they are Biſhops, … ſee them to be ſo.

Yes, if lawne ſleeves, and an outward dreſſe, or garb, can give in ſufficient evidence, That they are, what they ſay they are; But let us, according to the Charge, ſpeake as the Oracles of GOD, and deliver forth clearly, what they ſay, and what wee ſee: It is true, the Lord Chriſt, who ſees the heart, and knowes the ſecrets therein, does not judge after the ſight of the eye, nor reprove after the hearing of the eare. But wee, poore Iſa. 11. 4.men, who ſee no more but the out-ſide, wee muſt take leave to judge after the ſight of the eyes, and reprove (for wee have no other means) after the hearing of our ears: Wee profeſſe heartily, wee marke not ſo much, what men ſay, as what they doe; Wee care not what they ſay they are; but what wee ſee they are; And ſo wee will compare what they ſay they are, and what wee ſee they are, and ſo leave it to others, thereby to give Righteous Judgement; They ſay they are from heaven; wee ſee they are from Rome. They ſay they are Fathers; wee ſee they have no naturall affection at all; bloudy Fathers have they been, bloudy Fathers. They ſay they are ſpirituall; wee ſee they are altogether carnall. They ſay they are Lords; wee ſee they are ſlaves to their luſts, to their honours, to men, Time-ſervers, Men-pleaſers. They ſay they are ovex-ſeers; wee ſee they over-ſee nothing but their Rents and Revennewes, which was the complaint long agoe bSee Hiſtory of the Councell of Trent. Book 2. Pag. 252. and 216. Non magis de paſcendagrege, Cogitant qua ſutor de orando. Calvin Inſtit. 4. Chap. 5. Sect. 12, 13 Jer. 23. 13 14. Ezek. 22. 26. Zach. 11. 17.. They ſay they are men of GOD; wee ſee they are men of the world. They ſay they ſtand for Chriſt; wee ſee they ſtand againſt Chriſt, oppoſing Him in all His wayes. They ſay they are Miniſters of the Goſpel; wee ſee folly is in them, and horrible things are committed by them. They ſay they are Shep-heards; wee ſee they are Idoll-Shepheards, and the ſword is upon their right eye, and arme; their Arme is cleane dried-up, and their right eye is utterly darkened: This wee ſee, that they are not what they ſay they are. Their mouth was yet wider open to utter blaſphemies; for

2. They ſaid they were Biſhops by divine Right: I mean it not in their ſenſe now, nor as it was commonly underſtood, though that was an high preſumption, this was more. They ſaid they were Biſhops, and would have made themſelves ſo, by the ſame right, whereby the Lord Chriſt, bleſſed for ever, was made a Prieſt for ever; By the ſame right would they have made themſelves, Arch-biſhops, Biſhops, Deans, Arch-Deacons, &c. for ever. Marke wee whether it was not juſt ſo; To be eſtabliſhed by an Oath, was a peculiar Inſtalment to our High Prieſt, the great Biſhop of our ſoules, He was made with an Oath; Other Prieſts, without an Oath cHeb. 7. 20, 21.; But ſo they thought to eſtabliſh themſelves, that their thr… might endure for ever; for, unto an immutable thing, wherein it was impoſſible (they thought) to be miſtaken, they had fixed the Anchor of their hope, both ſure and ſtedfaſt. What doe you thinke of this?

I thinke it to be a greater blaſphemy, than the other.

It is hard to make a compariſon, who blaſphemes moſt; he, that blaſphemes in words; or he, that blaſphemes in deed. But you thinke this to be a great blaſphemy?

Yes.

Surely you cannot thinke leſſe, for here they ſaid more preſumptuouſly, than that proud King did; Wee will exalt our Throne above Iſa. 14. 13, 14.the Sta…res of GOD; wee will aſcend above the height of the Clouds; wee will be like the moſt High, (will was all their reaſon.) And now ſee what the LORD has don! (for it is the worke of His hands) He has brought them downe even to the ſides of the pit. I argue from hence, the lawfulneſſe of the eradicating, or rooting-out this abominable roote (the Hierarchy with its branches) by the ſame Argument, which they uſed for the rooting themſelves-in; And we are ſure, that there is ſtrength enough in the Argument, if the higheſt preſumption, and moſt horrid blaſphemy can give ſtrength unto it, for all this is in it.

Hitherto wee have ſeene the Law and Hand of the LORD againſt theſe men, for the Abomination committed againſt the LORDS day. 2. For their preſumptuons ſayings and blaſphemous doings againſt the LORD Himſelfe. Wee proceed now to another Argument, for the Caſting of them forth, becauſe of their force and fraud againſt the people of GOD, the Clergie indeed, the lot of His Inheritance; Thus I argue;

Arg. III They that did call the people to the Sacrifices of ſtrange gods; They that did ſeeke to entice and turne-away the ſervants of GOD from ſerving ſo good a Maſter, were, by GODS command, to be hanged-up Num. 25. 4.before the LORD; The Biſhops have ſpoken all that they could ſpeake, and have don all that they could doe, whereby to entice and Deut. 13. 1.thruſt-away the people of God, from the ſervice of God, to ſerve abominable Idolls, the worke of mens hands; Therefore, by mans law, theſe are to be Caſt-out; What will you deny here?

This, That the Biſhops have don as you have ſaid, ſought to entice the people of God ſecretly, & by fraud: or by force to thruſt his people away from the ſervice of their God; All this I deny.

All this you deny! It is quickly ſaid, but you ſtand charged to conſider, what you deny, leaſt you contradict the evidence and verdict which all your ſenſes give-in unto you touching this matter; I ſhall call them-in now to give witneſſe; and I charge you before the Living God, anſwer now the truth, and the whole truth, as your ſenſes have made report unto you; firſt,

What heare you from their Pulpits?

I cannot anſwer that queſtion; for the Arch-biſhops have not preached theſe (I know not how) many yeeres: and the Biſhope preach in the Lent-time onelyonly; and then there is ſuch a throng to heare a Biſhop preach, that I cannot come within hearing; Therefore I can give you no certaine report.

Though you heard not the Biſhop, yet you heard of his Sermon; What heard you?

That the Biſhop no ſooner named his text, but he ran away from it as from an adverſary, with which he could not agree: Indeed the report of the Biſhops Sermon is very various, and monſtrous, ſo inconſiſtent it is with its ſelfe, and with the text: for though the ſacred Scripture be conſtant to its ſelfe, yet the Biſhop and his Chaplin (for he ſtoodup often in the Biſhops place) did mould, frame, and faſhion his Text as you can doe Waxe, to the faſhion of the time, or buſineſſe in hand, ſtill turning head upon God, and his Word, and preaching not the preaching which God ſaid unto him, but what beſt agreed with the work in hand, Jonah 3. 2.to make the King abſolute; and the Biſhop an abſolute Monarch alſo. So they preached; for juſt as the time ſerved, ſo the text ſhould ſerve. Now he preached-up the Kings Prerogative; and preached downe the Subjects Priviledge; ſet the Kings throne above GODS throne, and his people below his foote. This was the chiefe part of the Sermon, as pertinent to the Deſigne in hand, as it was croſſe to the text. Then Epiſcopacy muſt be Aſſerted by Divine Right; The Government in the Church muſt be Monarchicall, as in the Civill ſtate, it muſt be abſolute: And the better to bring about all this, They preached-up Ceremonies, Altars, A brutiſh ſervice wil render a people brutiſh.and Organs; and the lawfulneſſe of the warre with Scotland; the purſuing that brother with a ſword; Peace with Rome, but no peace with Scotland; What ever was the Text, that was the Doctrine and ſubject matter a great while. I pray you doe not aske mee any further account of the Biſhops Sermon; I can give no more account of it, than the ſickman can of his dreames. Surely, It was ſo Heterogeneous, incongruous, Inconſiſtent with, I ſay not baptized Reaſon, but common reaſon, and Baptizatam rationem.ſenſe, that in very truth, no good report can be made thereof.

I beleeve you, and therefore I have done with your eare: What reade you?

A very godly booke, the Arch-biſhops againſt the Jeſuit Fiſher; wherein there is nothing ſure to thruſt away the people of GOD from the ſervice of GOD: but rather from the ſervice of Rome; I am confident of that.

Be not ſo confident of an Arch-biſhops booke; for, as one ſaid of his loving friend, a blow from that hand would never hurt him: So you may be confident, That the Arch-biſhop never intended, by that booke, to hurt the Pope, or his Cauſe, but to promote it heartily: I doe aſſure you, that the Arch-biſhops intent was ſo honeſt, ſo true, ſo heartie towards Rome, and ſo falſe toward the true Church, that had he had as many necks, as I reade one man had mouthes (no fewer than fiftie,) they deſerve every one to be tr…ſſed up about with a rope; and yet not a full recompence of reward for his ungodly labour in that booke.

Proceed, What reade you?

A very pious booke, which has thruſt us quite off from Rome; has cauſed a deadly fewd betwixt us and Rome, it is called, No peace with Rome.

There is ſuch a book indeed, but you do reade alſo, that the ſame man has written, That Rome is a true Church; have you not read ſo?

Yes, and truly, me thought, there was a great contrarietie in words, ſuch a difference as could never be reconciled; No peace with Rome, yet Rome a true Church, it can never be reconciled, thought I.

Yes, that it can, though not well; diſtinguiſh the times, and perſons, and all is reconciled; The ſame man writ both, No peace with Rome before he was Biſhop: Rome, a true Church, after he was Biſhop; The one, as a Miniſter of Chriſt, the other, as a Miniſter of Antichriſt. When he was a Biſhop, he muſt write as a Biſhop, that is the point. And he could reconcile all very well (he had been unbiſhopt elſe) and ſo he put forth a book, and called it a Reconciler; which cauſed more than a ſuſpition of the man, that he was not a fearfull man onelyonly, but a right man, a Proctor for Rome, a ſubtill broker for Babylon. GOD give him an heart to think of this, for ſurely, ſuch a man as he ſhould not have given ſo juſt a cauſe of ſuſpition. But proceed; What reade you?

Pray you doe not trouble me with that queſtion any more, let it ſuffice to tell you, what I know in two words, the Biſhops books, and books licenced by their Chaplines (if they may be called books) are very many, and ſtand as fully charged againſt their LORD, and the Lords Anoynted, as any books in Italy, or in the Popes Library can doe.

Ile aske you no more, What you reade; but what doe you ſee; doe you ſee any thing from the Biſhops tending to edification?

Yes, if edification be a building and ſetting-up, (as I thinke the word doth import) I ſee much tending that way. I ſaw Biſhop Wrens Library opened, where I ſaw (what doe you call them?) pretty knacks, Images and Crucifixes, &c. All tending to edification of Romes Church, and the Popes leige people.

Have you ſeene any Altars?

You might as well aske mee, whether I have ſeene any Churcheſ, or Chappels, or Cathedralls; for in every of theſe places, there is an Altar, and moſt eminently ſeene there; there is an aſcent to it, by degrees and ſteps, as to Solomons Throne; Indeed I may anſwer your queſtion in the words of the LORD, According to the number of (Thy Cities) Jer. 2.of thy Cathedralls, thy Chancells, thy Chappels, are thy Altars, thy gods, O England.

You have bolted out a Truth here, I thinke, before you were aware; I pray you, let us underſtand our ſelves, and examine whether you have ſpoke a Truth or no? I asked you, whether you have ſeene any Altars? You anſwer mee, Yes, as many as there be Cathedralls, and Chapp…lls, and then you called them gods: I pray you underſtand, that it is not the Biſhops calling wood or ſtone, an Altar, or the ſetting of it like a D…eſſer-board in your Kitchin, Altarwiſe, which makes it an Altar? No: They may (for they are B…ſhops, you may not) take a ſtone a… a ſtock, hew and poliſh the ſame, then …aviſh gold out of the bagg, and ſo adorne it: though all this coſt and paines be beſtowed upon it, yet it is not an Altar, nor a god yet; no nor yet, when they have ſet-it-up, as was ſaid, Altar-wiſe, like the D…ſſer table in your Kitchin, yet it is not an Altar, nor a god yet. But if the great man *Iſa. 2. 9., the Arch-biſhop humbleth himſelfe; and the meane man, the in…eriour Biſhop, bowech-downe before it, then you may call it an Altar, and, i… you pleaſe, a god too. But if you have ſeene no bending nor cringing, nor bowing, nor humbling before this wood and ſtone, then you have miſcalled this wood and ſtone, and wronged the Arch-biſhops and Biſhops all.

I have not miſcalled it; I have called it as they have named it.

You are a man of ſhort Diſcourſe, pray you remember what was ſaid; That it is not the forme, faſhion, placing, ſetling of wood or ſtons, or calling it an Altar, which makes it an Altar: none of all this; but the bowing and humbling, that gives unto it a worſhip, and that makes it an Altar, and a god hoth *Ecce plumbatur erig…tur nec adhuc Deus eſt. Conſecratur oratur …unc poſtremo Deus eſt. M. Fel. in fol. 1. pag. 16. lin. 27..

But now, nor Pope, nor Biſhop, will grant, That bowing and humbling before wood and ſtone, make it a god.

I thinke as you ſay, and no matter what Pope, or Biſhop, Jeſuit, or Papiſt, grant ordeny. This wee affirme to the face of all the Papiſts in the world; That this bowing and humbling (no Civill worſhip in the Church) is a worſhip proper and peculiar to God alone; He is a God, whom wee ſo worſhip; or wee make it, though out wood or ſtone, wee make it a god, as much as in us lies; while wee make wood and ſtone ſhare in this worſhip, wee deifie it, wee exalt it on high, (and our folly with it) wee make it more than a creature. In a word, By bowing and humbling before wood and ſtone, wee make it a falſe god, and our ſelves; I ſay not, abominable; but a very abomination. My Queſtion then is; Have you ſeene any of all this, bowing and humbling before wood and ſtone? Have you ſeene Arch-biſhops and Biſhops, the great men, and the meane men doe ſo?

I can give you a cleare anſwer to your Queſtion; for I can tell you, what I have ſeene with mine eyes. In Aprill 1640. The day after the Parliament ſate, then and there, in Pauls Quire, I obſerved the Arch-Biſhops and Biſhops every one, except two, ducking ſo low before the Altar, that their back-parts appeared, and their fore-parts (their heads) diſ-appeared: And what call you that? Bowing and humbling ſure. And what they did in Pauls, they would doe in the Kings, and Queens Chappell, and in their owne, where they have the ſame piles of wood and ſtone, with wax-tapers upon them; and Prieſts (with what call you it upon their backs?) before the Altar; I call it an Altar now by your allowance, and a god too; for the great man has humbled himſelfe before it, and the meane man has bowed downe.

Had wee time to ſtay upon it, I would bid you reade on; Therefore forgive them not; Theſe are terrible words, but wee muſt paſſe them over, and ſo proceed, Your eye has don you good ſervice; It has ſhowne you the moſt abominable Idolatry that ever was committed under the Sunne, exceeding that of the Prieſts in the Queens Chappell; for there they humble themſelves, and bow, but not before wood and ſtone, but before a wooden or a Breaden-god, the worke of their owne hands. They that can make gods with their owne hands, can worſhip them, and with the ſame Reaſon. I deſcend now from the eye, to enquire of your other ſenſes.

What did you Smell, and Taſte all the time of the Biſhops raigne?

As was the ſmell of the Services in the Queens Chappell; where was the groſſeſt, the rankeſt, the moſt ſtinking Popery; yet not ſo abominable, as the Biſhops Idolatry, for the Reaſon above-ſaid.

What have you felt?

You ſhould not aske me that Queſtion; I am, as they call mee, a lay-man (by which name, I cannot tell my ſelfe what I am) nor muſt you aske any of the Biſhops Clergy-men [The Biſhops and their Miniſters are the lot and inheritance of the Lord, the Clergy, they ſay, though] They are as their Lords are; Aske a Miniſter of Jeſus Chriſt, any one faithfull Steward in Gods houſe, he will tell you, That if the Biſhops could not thrust him off from the worke and ſervice of the LORD, then he could thruſt him-out of GODS houſe, and his owne; and thruſt yet ſorer at him, till he had thruſt him out of the Land; It is unſpeakable what Gods faithfull Miniſters, and faithfull people, have ſuffered from the Biſhops themſelves, and their bloudy ſervants; what Devouring words! what violence from their hands!

Very well: Now I pray you anſwer mee from what all your ſenſes have reported to you, whether you have obſerved any thing ſpoken or don by the Biſhops, any fraud, any force, whereby to thruſt away the people of GOD from the ſervice of GOD, their good Maſter in heaven? Anſwer according to the report your ſenſes have given to your underſtanding touching this matter?

That the Biſhops have endeavoured by all their ſayings and doings, To render The Lords Day, vile and contemptible; more marred than any Day. They endeavoured alſo, to thruſt away King and people from the worſhip and ſervice of their God, &c.

That is enough, for grant ſo much (and yet more you muſt grant) and then that followes, which, being well proſecuted, will ſtrike at the Biſhops heads, and truſſe them ſhort by the necks. But yet you muſt anſwer mee more fully, and ſo you will put me to the trouble of other Queſtions, and your ſelfe to the anſwers. Was all this fraud and force, theſe Devices, Methods, Depths of the Biſhops, were all theſe but an endeavour onelyonly, and a Deſigne with them? In polluting To pollute The Lords Day; In defiling To Defile the houſe of God, and the ſervices there; Was it but an endeavour only to thruſt away the Deputy from the faith? To ſtop the mouthes of the Miniſters? To thruſt them out of GODS houſe, and their owne, and into priſons, or out of the Land? Was it but an endeavour; but a Deſigne onelyonly, To make ſome of them, who would doe their dutie, a ſpectacle to God, Angells, and men? [I know the Lord has His Reſerve, a Remnant, a few Names, who would not defile their garments; He did preſerve ſome out of the fire; and ſome in the fire; ſome He delivered from the Lions den; and ſome He reſcued from out of the Lions mouth. I know the LORD has had His Reſerves evermore; and His Deliverances, and His Reſcues are wonderfull. It is granted alſo, That all theſe hard words and ungodly deeds, have tended to the ſpreading of the Goſpel; the furtherance of it even in this Land, and to the encreaſe of the faithfull, the ennobling and hightening of their Spirits, by the oppoſition made againſt them: It has made many lights burne the brighter, the ſtronger the winde was to put them out. The LORD has many and faire wayes to re…rute His Nobles, and Worthies, wayes well beſeeming and becomming the God of Gods, and Lord of Lords. But what the Lord has don, what good He has brought out of all this evill, is not the Queſtion now.] I charge you before the Living God, anſwer me to this; Were all the writings, ſayings, doings of the Biſhops, but an endeavour onelyonly, but a Deſigne? Have they effected nothing touching the premiſſes: Open your mouth, and ſpeak as the Oracle of God, and as in the eares of God, Have the Biſhops but endeavoured onelyonly in polluting To pollute The Lords Day? Anſwer me that firſt.

It cannot be denied, That the Biſhops ſet-out a Book, wherein they gave an Advouſion of libertie to the people, for harmleſſe ſports, and paſs-times, to paſſe over the Sunday, as they, The Lords day, as yee call it. Indeed this Grant of libertie, workt contrary effects, as all men ſay, but that was by accident, as the Logicians ſay; It was not in the nature of the thing, but in the nature of the people.

You are miſtaken in the firſt word, and ſo all along. You call the Declaration for Sports, a grant of libertie to the people. That is true, though they need not ſuch a grant, for they will take it without leave; But it was a Law and Command to the Paſtours, To give their people that libertie. Secondly, You call them harmleſſe Sports, and lawfull paſs-times. You ſhould underſtand, That theſe very names, ſports and paſs-times, are not compatible, not any way congruous with ſo ſacred a Time, as is The Lords Day: Therefore the Biſhops ſhould not have diſtinguiſhed of ſports, but have caſt-them-out, as neither Civill, nor Harm-leſſe nor Man-like; but the contrary: nor lawfull (ſpecially mixt dancing) on any day, moſt unlawfull and brutiſh on the Lords Day. Thirdly, You ſay, That this Declaration for Sports, worke contrary to the Biſhops meaning; and that the effects were by accident. Wee ſay the Declaration workt according to the heart of the Biſhop, And that ſuch effects, as wee have now ſeene, were in the nature of the thing; as well as in the nature of the people.

You muſt remember, That there were two very godly expreſſions in the Declaration for Sports, whereby the Biſhops did declare a very pious meaning ſure. The firſt; That they commanded no other ſports, but what would make the people fit for warre, that is the expreſſion.

A godly expreſſion ſaid you, and declaring a godly intent! by giving the people a libertie to ſport and paſſe-away a ſacred Time, with Whitſon-Ales, May-games, &c. thereby to make the people fit for warre! Ile tell you a Story, whereby you ſhall be inabled to give Judgement upon this. Cyrus, a brave Commander, vexed ſtill with the Lydians, a very warlike people, bethought himſelfe of a way to tame the Lydians, and to make them ſober men, by making them firſt drunke with wine, and ſotted with pleaſures; for thus it was; Cyrus ſets forth a gracious Declaration unto them; gave the Lydians the ſame libertie then, which the Biſhops gave to the people now, A licence to ſet-up Alehouſes; Cauponias …t ludicras artes exercere.To exerciſe their bodies, and refreſh their minds with ſports, paſs-times, games, &c. I put a Queſtion now, and crave your anſwer; Was Cyrus his intent, by this grant of libertie unto the Lydians, To make them fit or unfit for warre?

Unfit ſure.

You have ſpoken like a man, the very Truth, for ſo it was; A very warlike people before, becomes as weake as water preſently after; And, to give you in ſhort, what Aelian contributes to this Story; Theſe people were ſo delighted in dauncing, That they taught their horſes to daunce: So when the horſes heard the Trumpet and the Drum, they thought it was the Taber and the Pipe, ſo the horſes fell to dauncing, and gave up their Riders to the ſpoile. And now if you cannot, the preſent time ſhall declare the Biſhops meaning, and the purpoſe of thoſe words; To make the people fit for warre; (i. e.) make a people fit for deſtruction, To be devoured by the mouth of the ſword, as it is at this Day. The people were made drunke with wine, and ſtrong drinke, and drunke with pleaſure, Now the Lord has made them drunke with their owne bloud in their owne Land. Wee, by command from the Biſhops, have blaſphemed Gods Name; polluted His day; defiled His Sanctuaries; Now The LORD has made us fit for warre Now He has given us for a ſpoile, and to the Robbers, He has powered upon us the fury of Iſa 42. ω.His anger, and the ſtrength of Battle. And doe wee complaine, That our Cities are, ſome of them, waſted, and otherſome, impoveriſhed? Let us admire, That our Cities are not all ſo waſted, and left without Inhabitants; That all are not made as Sodom, and like unto Gomoral… That is the wonder, and the patience of a God! That a God, ſo provoked, ſhould be ſo gracious, there is matter for wonder.

To interrupt you a little, I muſt tell you, That the Declaration for ſports and Paſs-times, do's declare its ſelfe againſt ſilthy Tiplings and drunkenneſſe, The other expreſſion, very godly and gracious! expreſſe againſt Tipling, that ſwiniſh ſinne, forbidding it in expreſſe tearmes.

You are miſtaken; That D…claration commands Riott, Luxury, Drunkenneſſe. Intemperance, and wantonneſſe, Though not directly, and in expreſſe words, yet by moſt neceſſary & undoubted conſequence, as an effect from the cauſe, which being naturall and ſufficient, includeth the effect, and alwayes giveth it. It is true, There was an expreſſe forbidding of filthy Tiplings, and Drunkenneſſe, for ſo run the words; They are but words; Filthy Tiplings, and Drunkenneſſe, and Rioting in 2 Pet. 2. 13the day time, all theſe were in that Charter for libertie, as in the roote; As Death was in the Pott; As a fall in pride; As deſtruction and death, in ſin and rebellion. It is not poſſible to countenance Whitſun-Ales, and diſcountenance Drunkenneſſe; To Command Wakes, and forbid Tiplings; To allow of ſetting-up May-poles, and other ſports therwith uſed, and diſallow of Chambering and Wantonneſſe. If I grant the cauſe, I cannot forbid the effect, no more than I can forbid a ſtone to fall down-ward, or an Eagle to haſten to its prey; no more than I can forbid the fire to burne, or the Sun to ſhine. But if I take away the fuell, then the fire will goe out. No man will ſhow himſelfe ſo uncivill, and below himſelfe, as to Command Drunkenneſſe, Intemperance, wantonneſſe, in plaine tearmes; Nor need wee a command to doe that, wherein our natures too much command us; Where the law of nature ſpeakes, no need it ſhould be aſſiſted by a Commandement; Wee carry about us a law in our members, which leads us captive to the law of ſin. If a Magiſtrate will be entreated for the erecting & ſupporting of bloudy dens, Schooles of miſ-rule, nurceries of the Gallowes (ſo bleſſed Bolton calls Ale-houſes) he doth encourage and ſupport ſwiniſh Drunkards, worſe than ſwine in the Church, and more harmfull than they in that garden; Set open the Ale-houſe, you may be ſure ſome body will come reeling out. The ſame may be ſaid of ſetting up May-poles, and countenancing other ſports thereto belonging; You cannot command them, and forbid the taking pleaſure to riott in the day time. Wee doe not reade, (and it is worth our obſervation) that Balaam did command the people to commit whoredome with the daughters of Moah. He did not point Zimri and Cosb… to goe to the Tent in the face of the Congregation and on that ſolemn day; he had more civilitie than ſo. Balaam Numb. 24. 14. Chap. 31. 16. See Trem.did adviſe, onelyonly ſo and no more. Balaam was an old Man; as he was, ſo his counſell muſt be, grave, not ſeemingly ſowre, nor apparently uncivill. Let Iſra…l and Moab come to an inter-view; let them ſee each others faces; let them be preſent at each others ſacrifices. This was the Counſell, but worſe than a curſe, for now folly will be committed in I…l no doubt of that: And then The GOD of Iſrael will be offended wi…h Iſrael He will depart, and then a curſe followes, as certain as when the Cloud is thicke, The thunder-clap followes (in our ſenſes) the ſparkling flaſh; Bad Counſell is worſe than ſower Counſell, and more poyſon u…, for by bad counſell, not ſower counſell, Balaam taught Balack To lay a ſtumbling block before Iſrael, as the Spirit calleth aRev. 2. 14it: And it proved in the iſſue ſower counſell too; Iſrael found it ſo, as wee reade bNumb. 25. 9. 1 Cor. 10. 8. To apply here; The Biſhops did not command Idolatry, ſaying, Goe ſerve other gods. No, but they ſet-up Altars, That was enough to defile the whole Land, and to make a people commit adultery with ſtones and with ſtocks cJer. 3. 9.. The Biſhops did not command Tipling and Drunkenneſſe. No; But they commanded ſports and paſs-times, Whitſon-Ales, and May-poles; Allow the cauſe, and countenance that, you allow the effect, and countenance that alſo which naturally iſſueth thence. If the maid lay leaven in three pecks of meale, ſhee need not command it to ſower the whole lumpe; Put fire and fuell together, you need not bid it to burne; Set a deſirable object before the eye, you need not command the heart to luſt after it; Set the windowes, doores, gates all open, you need not bid the enemy enter; A ſmall ſparke falling into gunpowder, you know what it will doe, whether you will or no, or though you command the contrary. And you know as well, That they, who command Wakes, Whitſon-Ales, ſetting up May-poles, and other ſports therewith uſed, do command filthy Tiplings, and Drunkenneſſe, and other abuſes in ſuch diſtempers uſuall. I have been the longer upon this, to cleare your judgement in ſo neceſſary a point. I proceed now to the next Queſtion; Did the Biſhops but endeavour, was it but their ſeeking onelyonly, To turne the Deputy from the faith?Act. 13. 8.

I cannot make anſwere here, for I cannot tell whoſe endeavour, and ſeeking it was; I can tell All are turned from the Faith, King and Biſhop, Prieſt and people, and all; All are turnd away from God, that is cleare enough. The Church and State are turned up-ſide downe, what poſſibly Church-men could doe, But who was the chiefeſt Artiſt, and Turner here, that I cannot ſo well tell.

If you cannot, you are content to be informed at this point from them who can tell us from ancient Records, That the Biſhop turned the Deputy from the faith, and with him very much people; wee will reade the Records; but conſider with mee firſt, How high the Biſhops Power and Authoritie was?

How high the Biſhops Power? He was not in the Zenith dThe Zenith is the higheſt point in the heavens over your head: The Nadar is that point of earth your foot ſtands upon; The place wher the Popes muſt be laid, and their honours in the Duſt.of the Church, for there onelyonly the Pope ſits. Take it at the height of its elevation, The Biſhops power was but Derivative, as a ſtreame from the See of Rome; a baſtard-power from the Pope.

You are miſtaken, our Biſhops power was as independant as the Popes power is; as abſolute a Pope in his Dioceſſe (and that was all over the Land) as the Pope is all over the Chriſtian world: And all his Actions, Dictates, Determinations, &c. were as Magiſteriall and Pope-like, as ever were the Biſhops in Rome. But I pray you conſider with mee, what I was about to ſay, but that you interrupted mee.

2. What an influence (like ſome malignant Starr) the Biſhops power had, from the Councell-Table, Starr-chamber, every Court and place, into the affaires and tranſactions of Church and State.

3. Enquire wee of ancient dayes, and wee ſhall well underſtand, That, while the Prieſts were good, The King was good: When the people might ſay, He is a very good Prieſt; Then they might ſay, He is a very good King. Jehojada an excellent Prieſt, for he made a Covenant between 2 Chron. 23. 16.God, the King, and the People; That all ſhould be, not their owne, but The LORDS People; an excellent Prieſt he. So was Joaſh the King, as forward and zealous (to ſay no more) as the Prieſt was *Ver. 6.. The Prieſts zeale kindled the Kings zeale, made it fervent and boyling-hott; So it was like the burning of thornes, quickly in a flame, and as quickly out; It was not a zeale, a fire from above; But this is the point; So long as the Prieſt was excellently good, a living example before the Kings eye, ſo long the King was good. Zechariah, a very good Prieſt too, And in his dayes, Ʋzziah was a very good King, for he ſought God in the dayes of 2 Chro. 26Zechariah: and all that while he proſpered: I might be large, wee will reade but one or two Records more; The one tells us;

4. That the Temple, and the Temple-worke there, was never defiled, while the chiefe Prieſts there did their office. It is true, The King fretted againſt the Prieſts, and ſtormed againſt the LORD, till the LORD 2 Chron. 26. 20.ſmote him in his forehead, then he was calme and ſtill; But while the chiefe Prieſt, and foureſcore more with him, did their office, all was well, except the King; It was ill with him, who did fret againſt the Prieſts, becauſe they did their office, and againſt The Lord, That charged them ſo; It was ill with him. But the Cenſer and the Sacrifice was in their hands, unto whom it did belong, To offer unto the LORD, and ſerve before Him. Let us record one example more, and that will relate to theſe times. King Ahaz had a ſervant, a Right man for his ſ… vice; But as vile a Prieſt as was in all Judah; What was the King? If any man makes it a queſtion, The ſacred Records will reſolve him, As miſerable a King, as his Idolatries, & other abominations could make him: And his Prieſt, the baſeſt ſervant in the world, a ſlave to his Maſters luſts, and his own; The Prieſt haſtened his Maſters deſtruction, for he did, according 2 Kings 16. 16.to all that King A…az Commanded; I have read the Records What is the reſult from thence? You muſt tell us; for from the premiſſes, you have drawne the Conclu…ion; I pray you what is it?

That, I… it be now▪ as in ancient dayes it has been, then the Biſhop is the Witch, the Sorcerer, he is the cun…ing Artiſt, he turnes all up-ſide downe, he has turned the King, and people from the faith.

There is no new thing under the Sun, What was, now is; like Prieſts, like people; Brutiſh Prieſts, brutiſh people. And now ſith you have anſwered mee ſo clearely to this, Ile aske you no more queſtions; I will not aske you whether the Biſhops endeavoured onelyonly To defile the houſe of GOD, and the ſervices there? Not; whether they ſet-up their Threſholds, by Gods Threſholds *Ezech. 43. 8. Adhibendo traditiones ſuas ad praecepta mea. Jun.? Not, whether they thruſt GOD out of His Houſe, and His ſervants out of their houſes, and Gods Houſe alſo? Not, whether they have thruſt His ſervants into corners, and out of the Land? Not, whether they have uſed Gods precious ones, villanouſly? All this is as cleare to all the Chriſtian world, as is the noone day: And indeed, you have yeelded to all this, when you granted, what you could not deny, That the Biſhops ſet-up Altars, and made gods. Will the GOD of gods endure this, To be mated in His owne houſe with gods of mans owne making? Surely, ſurely, This is enough to cauſe the LORD to meaſure us, as He did Judah and Iſrael; or (to relate unto Times nearer hand) to ſtreteh over this Land alſo, the line of Germany, and the Plummet of the Palatinate-houſe, To cauſe the Land to be wiped, 2 King. 21. 13.as a man wipeth a diſh, wiping it and turning it upſide-downe; Enough and enough, (ſo much as a man can doe, and was in his power) To make all the Inhabitants of the Land Papiſts and Atheiſts all; Setting-up Altars, and making of gods, has don all this; O wonderfull! That all this has been don here before the face of His Holineſſe, and yet He has ſpared, He has not meated out unto us, as unto other Lands; He has not wiped the Land yet as a maid wipeth a diſh; He has not made our Land Hormah *Numb. 21. 3., utter Deſtruction, or Anathema, a curſe; Not yet, Though theſe abominations are found here; And yet behold … greater Abomination than has been ſhewen hitherto, which I ſhall not declare here.

I pray you let us heare all; declare what you can declare; ſhew me …d the world, that other Abomination.

You muſt ſpare mee, and your ſelfe that trouble; Indeed I can ſay nothing touching the Biſhops example, that is the abomination, my words cannot reach unto it; how provoaking! how defiling! how corrupting! how ſpreading! No leproſie ſo infecting, ſo deſtroying. This how cannot be expreſſed; A Biſhops Example! A Biſhop, and ſetup Altars! A Biſhop, and make gods! Ah LORD, how many thouſand thouſand ſoules, has a Biſhops example Deſtroyed! He has by his abominable Doctrines (as wee heard,) he has thruſt away King and people from the worſhip of their GOD; By his example, he has commanded aPerſuadet lingua jubet vita Athan., forced bGal. 2. 14 Cogi eos dicit, qui exemp…o Petri, Judaizabant Jun.. compelled King and people to ſerve other gods. I can ſay nothing touching this Abomination; I confeſſe it is hard to forbeare; but I doe forbeare, for your ſake, That you may now take the more ſcope, and libertie, to ſay what you have to ſay for Arch-biſhops, and Biſhops, Their government, their office, their Name. Come, gird up your loynes, and ſpeake like a man; What ſay you?

Truly I have much to ſay, yet nothing at all againſt that you have ſpoken from the word of God, and Judgement from His mouth, upon the Biſhops. I can yeeld unto your hearts deſire, That our two Arch-biſhops ought to be thruſt-out; Nay, more, That thoſe two (I ever except a third, The Primate of Ireland) ought to be hanged-up by the necks; for, wee know what one has don; and it is as legible what the other does; he fights ſtoutly for the Pope his Lord; I could yeeld you-up ſome of the Biſhops too, to the Juſtice of the Law, to be hanged by the neck, or roſted in the fire; I could yeeld you up our Wren, &c. But to tell you, what grieveth mee, I cannot endure to heare all the Biſhops jumbled together, like Cheſt-men in a bagg, honeſt men and—together; Two Metropolitan Biſhops, & one Primate together; Great men, and mean men, together; vile men, and precious men, together; you have made no diſtinction; I profeſſe unto you, you have ſo confounded the perſons, that I cannot finde out the Primate of Ireland, nor difference him from another Biſhop, (now he is in Oxford) where all the Biſhops are, or where all their hearts are: You have made ſuch a mingle-mangle one with another, that I cannot ſingle-out Biſhop Wren, that vile man, from Biſhop Hall, that precious man: You have, as I ſaid at firſt, jumbled them together, like Cheſt-men in a bagg: You ſhould have conſidered, how ſoundly ſome of them have preached, [but ſome; ſome not at all; very few oftener than once a yeare, and then not ſoundly neither] what good bookes they have written. And touching the Ceremonies, how cleare they are for the innocency of the ſame. All this you ſhould have conſidered, and not have jumbled them all together. Indeed I am grieved, that you cannot diſtinguiſh better.

Truly I would grieve no honeſt man; and I hope to cleare my words ſo unto you, That they ſhall be no griefe to your heart. You ſay I have jumbled the Biſhops all together, like Cheſt-men in a bagge. Ile anſwer you to that firſt, and grant, ſo I have done, and purpoſely I have done it, for mightie reaſon, for ſo they jumbled the dayes of the weeke, the ſeventh Day with the ſix dayes, they made no difference, no diſtinction at all. Deſtinction! No, They marred their Lords day more than any Day. I grant you, they have don ſome good workes; So did Alexander the Great, greater workes than they; But Alexander killed his deare friend Caliſthenes; Him, who dearly loved Alexander, and the King both; and ever after that, when it was alledged for the honour of Alexander, That he had don ſuch and ſuch great things; It was checked with this; He did ſo indeed, but he killed his true and honeſt friend, Caliſthenes, he killed him; And that darkened all his glory to his dying day. So when it is ſaid, The Biſhops, ſome few of them, have written good bookes; Yes, but they have polluted the Lords Day; which, if there were no more, is enough, to ſtain their glory, while the world ſtands; But there is more. Have they, the beſt of them, anſwered their names? have they magnified their office? have they given attendance to 1 Tim. 4. 1…. Ezek. 22. 30. foreignreading, to exhortation, to doctrine? or, when The LORD ſought for a man amongſt them, I ſay a man *, to ſpeake for Him, was there a man amongſt them, the Biſhops all, that did appeare? They ſhould have taken His people by the hand now in this day of their trouble, doe they A man indeed that has the fire of zeal in him, will ſtand in the breach till hee has hedged-up the hedge.doe it? I ſay againe, doe they doe it? or doe they take the people of GOD by their throats? GOD is witneſſe, even GOD is witneſſe. He is witneſſe alſo, What blaſphemies they have heard belched-out from the Pulpit, and they were ſilent the while, and afterwards. What hard words have they heard in the Court, pointed out againſt His hidd…n ones, which they reproved not? Reproved not! encouraged rather; God knowes, what ungodly deeds they have ſeene! and how the beſt of the Biſhops have ſtrengthened the hand of the wicked, doing violence to the godly! GOD knows all this; He knowes, even the Holy One, who trieth the reines, and ſearcheth the hearts, & underſtanddeth the thoughts long before. He knowes, That the beſt of them have dealt moſt corruptly in His matters; moſt treacherouſly with His people in the Day of viſitation; moſt wickedly in the Covenant; The beſt of them is a briar; Mich. 7. 4.Th… moſt upright is ſharper than a thorne-hedge; The day of Thy Watchmen and Thy viſitation cometh, now ſhall be their p…rplexitie, Amen.

I cannot joyne with you; You ſhould have pulled out the Primate hence, and Biſhop Hall, before you had ſaid Amen; Why man, The LORD bids you put a difference betwixt the good and the bad; the precious and the vile; And, when the LORD viſits a people in wrath Pſal. 4. 4. foreign Exo. 8. 22 B. 9. 4. 11. 17. Aug. de civit. Dei, l. 1. cap. 9. See Cure of feares. pag. 33.and indignation, then He ſets a marke, He makes a ſeperation, H… marvellouſly ſeperateth ^a. B. He do… indeed, then He ſets apart, then He ſeperates indeed. Then He ſets a marke, a legible marke, a proper and peculiar marke upon His choſen ones. But not viſible to a common eye; as it was in the 4. Pſalme, and other places. No; good and bad▪ the precious, and the vile, are carried away with the ſame floud of GODS wrath; there is no diſtinction made to your outward eye, for the reaſons intimated before, more fully ſet downe in that notable Chapter, pointed to in the margin ^b; But becauſe I finde your ſpirit grieved, Ile open the ſacred Records, and reade what wee finde there; This, That Num. 25. 3.Iſrael joyned himſelfe unto Baal-Peor (an abominable Idoll:) and the anger of The LORD was kindled againſt Iſrael. What was Iſraels Idolatry Primari…s populi, Iun.to their Governors, and Chief-taines, the Heads of Iſrael ^c? Yes to them, and they muſt ſuffer for it. What! The people joyned to Baal-Peor, and the Heads of the people lookers-on! They muſt be hanged up all for that. It is the Charge of the LORD; Take all the heads of the people, and hang them up. All the heads; you will obſerve that, All. Doubtleſſe, ſome heads did not contrive for the ſetting up, or ſerving that ſhame dHoſ. 9. …0.Nay, doubtleſſe ſome heads, there, thought the ſetting up that ſhame, and ſerving before it, To be as abominable, as any heads amongſt us judged the Declaration for ſports (that ſhame) to be, even ſo abominable. Nay, doubtleſſe, could they have maintained their honours, and head-ſhips amongſt and over the people, they would have withſtood that abominable ſervice, the peoples joyning to Baal-Peor, that ſhame; But not one, not one man was found, that would doe as Phineas did; not a man, that would ſhow his head appearing for GOD, and againſt that ſhame: Therefore, Take all the heads, and hang them up; Where? Before The LORD, before whoſe glorious eye, they committed that abomination; And becauſe not one of theſe men would ſhew their heads, would appeare for their Lord; hang them up before the Sun; put them to ſhame; make them a publike example; ſhew them openly; make them a ſpectacle; ſet their heads before that Sun (which they made an Idoll) that all may point at them with the finger, and ſay, Theſe are they, who did ſlinke away, who hid their heads, would not appeare when time was, for their Great Lord, and Maſter in heaven: Now they doe appeare; Now they are ſhowen openly before the Sun. It muſt be ſo don, it ought to be ſo don for GOD has ſaid it; Take all the HEADS of the people, and hang them-up before the LORD againſt the Sun, that the feirce anger of the Numb. 25. 4.LORD may be turned away from Iſrael. Looke you well upon it, conſider it well, and you muſt conclude from hence, That all the Biſhops, the chiefe, the Primate, and Metropolitan, the great men, and mean men, all muſt be thruſt downe, all caſt-out: Ile carry it no higher than to a thruſting downe, a caſting-out; Hang them-up before the LORD, and againſt the Sun, That I leave to the Judges, as it followes*; But if you Verſ. 5. 6.will not yeeld ſo farr for the Thruſting all the Biſhops downe, and caſting them all out; Then I muſt ſay, you are the man, who will not be ſatisfied from reaſon, or Scripture, nor from the mouth and command of GOD.

I am ſatisfied; I yeeld them up all patiently to the Juſtice of the Law: And I ſay now, Currat lex ſiat juſticia, ruat mundus; Let the Law have its courſe; let Juſtice be don, though the earth ſhake, and the kingdomes be moved, yea, ſhattered to pieces, let Juſtice be done. Amen, But

What another But yet, and ſo out of place! you are not ſatisfied, I perceive, touching this All.

Yes that I am, content, That all theſe Arch-biſhops (they are but two) be thruſt out; And all theſe Biſhops every man; Take them, even All the heads, and &c.

Speak out man, the terror of an Arch-biſhop, or a Lord, cannot make you afraid now, GOD will be terrible to them, ſpeake out; And hang them-up before the Sun that followes.

True, But I was ſpeaking for them, yet indeed I am aſhamed, but I conſider, All your Allegations are but vitia perſonarum, theſe may be thruſt away, or hanged-up before the Sun, and others thruſt into their places, for indeed Arch-biſhips are venerable for their Antiquitie.

Ah Lord! What a word is that! The ſame word will ſerve to eſtabliſh errour, very ancient, Truth, its oppoſite, but a few hou…es before it. Venerable for Antiquitie! You may ſay as much for the Devill too▪ that old Serpent. Venerable for Antiquitie! So is Sunday and Monday, and ſo through the whole weeke, (and Saints dayes, as we fooles miſcall them) anciently called by thoſe names by the Heathen in honour to the Sun, and to the Queen of heaven. Venerable for Antiquitie! So is the Pope too, and his Cardinalls more ancient than he, if you will beleeve them, or their Advocate; for he and they conclude from ſacred Scripture too, (ſee what Interpreters they are) That the Cardinalls are two dayes older than the Moone; They were in the firmament of the Church, before the Moone was ſet in the heaven, as they collect very wiſely from the Text 1 Sam. 2. 8 See Childs patrimony pag. 104.pointed to in the Margin; I will not contend with you, nor you with me; you ſhall have your ſaying, Arch-biſhops are venerable for their Antiquitis: So you ſay, ſo I ſay; wee are agreed: Arch-biſhops are as ancient as Paganiſme, as Heatheniſme in this Land: They were here before the Land was Chriſtian; And now that this Land muſt be the LORDS Land, and the people there, The LORDS people, Chriſtians indeed, now ſhall Arch biſhops be no more.

Let Antiquitie goe, I ſee it will doe them no good, but a neceſſitie there is, there ſhould be Arch-biſhops.

A neceſſitie! then there is reaſon for it, and Law both: but there is neither; He be as plaine with you as a pack-ſtaff. Tell mee. when I have told you; There ar… ſeverall flocks of ſheepe in the Land, a Shepheard over every flock; ſo carefull wee are of our ſheepe, that harmleſſe, uſefull cattell: And great reaſon for that; Now tell me; What reaſon or Law is there, That there ſhould be a great, a Catholique Shepheard to o…erſee all theſe Shepheards; have you any Reaſon or Law for that?

No truly, That there ſhould be a great Overſeer over ſmall overſeers.

I thought ſo; Therefore I know there is no neceſſitie.

I muſt grant it; but there is a Decency.

A Decency! worſe and worſe; You ſhould remember your charge, To ſpeake as the O…acle of GOD, and as in the eares of GOD. You doe not anſwer your charge, when you ſay, That the being of Archbiſhops in a Church, makes for the decency in the Church. I anſwer you, there are not Arch-Angells in heaven: And is it decent, there ſhould be Arch biſhops or Primates on earth? There is no decency in it at all. I know you will forſake that Argument.

Well: But they ſay, there can not be a glorious Church without Arch-biſhops.

A foppery! I had almoſt ſaid a blaſphemy; I ſhall ſay it anon. The Church is glorious in heaven, you will ſay, and yet there be no Archbiſhops there, all men ſay.

I have heard them highly extolled, commended, and praiſed.

For what, for their vertues?

Yes.

So was Hildebrand *Beno Cardinalis Aventinus, making his entry to ſpeak of Pope Hildebrand, ſaith thus; Now muſt I ſpeake of warres, ſlaughters, murthers, killing of fathers ſtrives, hatreds, fornications, robberies, ſpolings, of common treaſure, ſpoilings of Churches, debates and ſeditions more then civill.the Pope praiſed, who had poyſoned ſix Popes his predec…ſſours, w…s a Conjurer and raiſer of Devils and threw the Sacrament into the fire. This man was commended for his vertues. Judas has been comcommended above the Apoſtles. Commended! Is that any newes, when Robbers, Murtherers, Rebels, Traitors, vile, and treacherous Prieſts, and perſons are highly commended at this day; they are honoured, dignified, titles of grace and honour are conferred upon them? To ſay all in a word, the Anti-Parliament, the Parliament in Oxford, conſiſting of the out-caſts from this Parliament, Oxford Parliament I ſay, the refuſe, the garbage of the land, that Parliament is commended. Will you put any force in praiſe and commendations? I pray you know from me, that a quartane Ague has been praiſed: ſo has folly been exalted by very learned men. Nay, I could read you a long oration in the praiſe of a Louſe. If I ſhould tell you what perſons and flatuous things have been commended, I ſhould make you laugh heartily. But we are ſerious. Certainly that Argument will not hold neither. But to ſpeak-out plainly, and all in a word. It is blaſphemy for a man to take unto himſelfe that honour.

I grant it to be blaſphemy in the Popes mouth.

In the Popes mouth! It is blaſphemy in the mans mouth, who will aſſume unto himſelfe that name (that incommunicable name) Archbiſhop, or Primat, for he is Pope, the mouth that ſpeaks blaſphemies, as truly Pope in London, as Pope Leo was in Rome. To diſpatch this, and to cleare your judgement from the cleareſt light; I pray you conſider, That the Lord Jeſus Chriſt, Bleſſed for ever, is (if I might uſe our Dialect) the Archbiſhop and Primat in heaven and earth: And the Seaven Spirits is His Vicar-generall; He is the great Shepheard, the ſole Monarch, the King of Kings and Lord of Lords. And becauſe the Gian…s of the world, and Lords of the earth; becauſe Almighty Kings (in their conceit, thinking they have an arme like God, and ſo) Lord-like Biſhops, have ſet themſelves againſt this Lord and King; therefore has this Lord and King ſet his face againſt them: He has taken to Himſelfe power, and an Iron rod into his hand, and now we ſee him thraſh the Nations like ſtraw, and the Hills like chaffe: and comming upon Princes Iſa. 41. 15. 25.as upon mortor: Now we ſee him ſmiting the earth terribly, nor will he leave ſmiting till the bloodſhed there bee diſcovered; till the gods there be ſtarved, till the Idols there be caſt out to the Moles and to the Batts; Iſa. 2.now we ſee him ſhaking Kingdomes and Crownes, nor will he leave ſhaking, till he have ſhat…ered and broken them to peeces, becauſe they would not be the Lords Kingdomes, nor would they with the Elders, caſt down their crownes before the Throne. If they continue obſtinate, if … 4: 10they will not rule for Chriſt, if they will not ſubmit unto Him, then thus and thus the Lord Chriſt will do unto them, that all the Kingdomes of the earth may know, The Lord Chriſt reigneth, there is a God, that judgeth in the earth. But who ſhall bold out while hee ſees theſe things accompliſhed? They that wait patiently for the Lord, (for here is the patience of the Saints) They that leave God to his own time, worke and way; doe their own work faithfully, take hold of the Almighty arme, wrap up their ſoules in a promiſe touching this matter, ſo they are at peace: And this peace of God which paſſeth all underſtanding▪ ſhall keep their hearts in perfect peace, peace, peace, Amen.

I … you have not done.

Ye… indeed have I, unleſſe you have any more to ſay for Arch-biſhops; have you?

Not a word; I could bite my tongue for ſaying ſo much. But I have much to ſay for Biſhops, that others may be put into their rooms, that the Biſhops government may be continued, their office, and their name.

I ſee you will trouble me, and I am content with the trouble, ſo it may eaſe your mind, and give you content. But touching the government by Biſhops, I thought verily you were reſolved clearly, and fully, that it is Antichriſtian, are you not?

No indeed not I.

I ſee your memory fails you, not your underſtanding; you have underſtood that the head of this bulky body is reprobate ſilver; what will you think then of the other members of this body? What of the taile? What of the f…ot? Nay, you underſtand that the head of this body (nay the heads, and that argues it is a monſtrous body) the Arch-biſhop, is ſtruck-off by his own hand, a ſlain man bAn Idolater is a ſlain man: I will caſt down your …lain men. Ezek. 6. 4.. For to ſay all in a word, which you heard before; in that head is the mouth that ſpeakes blaſphemies, he is a ſlain man, caſt out as an abominable branch. Will you plead now for any part of this body: For the ſhoulders? they are the Biſhops. Or the Belly? That is their Courts. Or the Thighes? They are the Chancellours, Commiſſaries. Or Feet? They are their Proctors, and Doctors, what ſhall I call them? They are the Biſhops Purvayers, and Caterers, to ſerve the Biſhops luſts and their own: Will you contend for theſe?

I tell you, I contend for the government by Biſhops.

A government! If you have the government, you muſt have the governours, Archbiſhops and Biſhops, Archdeacons and Deacons, Chancellours and Commiſſaries, you muſt have their Courts too, with their Doctors and Proctors there, the moſt notorious—, I want a word whereby to expreſſe their villanies and notorious inſolencies; you muſt have that—garbage too, their Emiſſaries, their Paritors, thoſe execrable rabble that ſtink all the world over. All theſe you muſt have. Will you contend for theſe? or will you have all this prodigious government and governours ſink down and fall into the earth, from which it had its riſe and originall, after the Archbiſhops?

I would have the government ſtand.

You would anger a Saint! pray you conſider, the Biſhops are but the Archbiſhops hands: the other officers (not worth the recording) are but Instruments in the B…ſhops hands. Will you contend that theſe brethren in iniquity, inſtruments of the Divell, that theſe ſhould be reſerved and kept alive; will you contend for this?

Yes indeed will I, life is a pretious thing: Ile pray that they may be kept alive, that is, that the Governours may continue in their full force, power and vertue, notwithſtanding any law (though Gods law) to the contrary.

A pittifull man! But it is a fooliſh pitty, and ſpoils a Citie and Kingdome both: had you lived in the dayes of Ioſhua, you would have been a very earneſt ſutor to him, That Achans ſilver, his garment, and his wedge of gold, and his ſonnes and his daughters, and his oxen and his Ioſ. 7. 24.aſſes, and his ſheep and his tent, and all that he had, might be preſerved, would you not?

Yes ſurely, it would have grieved me to have ſeen all thoſe perſons and things to periſh before mine eye, as it grieved the Singing-men that were in Pauls, to ſee the Prieſts—(what doe you call them) veſtiments, or horſe trappings, to be burnt there before their noſes: ſo it would have grieved me to have ſeen ſuch an execution, ſuch a deſtruction.

You have more wit then you ſhew: for in ſhewing your pitty, you had ſeemed wiſer then Joſua and all Iſrael; For Joſhua and all Iſrael with him took Achan, and all the forementioned with him, ſtoned him and them: then burnt perſons and things. (Doe you mark that? ſton'd them firſt, and burnt them after; ſtoning was not enough, they muſt be burnt too) Then they raiſed a monument there, and there they ſet a marke, they called it the valley of Achor: (i. e.) a valley of trouble, and perplexitie: Achan had troubled all Iſrael, he and all his muſt be troubled for that, neither perſons nor things muſt be ſpared. Junius gives us a large note upon the place, the ſum is, to teach us, how contagious a thing ſin is, and how execrable the inſtruments of ſin are. Can you apply this to the perſons and things in hand?

Yes I thank God.

That is well; but if you can apply it indeed, you will be aware you doe not your ſelfe trouble Iſrael: nor will you have a word to ſay for them that are troublers there.

Not a word for Troublers, yet I muſt ſpeak for the government: for indeed we idolize it, we dote upon it, we muſt have it.

If there were no other reaſon but that, for the abolition of that government, that were enough; wee make it an Idol, wee dote upon it, therefore it ſhall be taken away. But will we have the Government ſtill, then we muſt have the Governours ſtill. And now if I ſhould tell you what horrible, prodigious, execrable,—(I want a word) murthers, villanies, have been committed by thoſe Governors and their ſervants, (ſlaves rather) I ſhould make your eares tingle.

I think ſo too: But you could tell me no more then the faults of perſons only, and their Courts, no more. Might not the perſons bee purged, and the Courts too, and the government preſerved? Though there be no Catholique Biſhop (an Archbiſhop) yet might there be a Dioceſa… Biſhop. And now I have told you what we would have, (and our meaning) a Dioceſan Biſhop we would have.

Very well: But you muſt explain your meaning now, what doe you mean by a Dioceſan Biſhop? Or what is a Dioceſſe?

I cannot tell: It is Greek to me.

To me alſo bforeign.. But you a ſtrange man to conclude for that, which is Greek to you, you underſtand not: You contend for a Biſhop over his Dioceſſe, and you know not what his Dioceſſe is. Ile tell you as well as I can, for it is a ſtrange word. A Dioceſſe is a government in an houſe, or in the place we commonly call the Church, and they have ſtretched it all over the Citie and Countrey; I mean, they have enlarged the Dioceſſe, they have ſo out compaſſed it, that all the Biſhops in the land, were they Biſhops indeed, could not be ſufficient for that place, to fill up ſuch a roomth: they have rendred it ſo capacious, that their Dioceſſe containes more roomth, then Philippi, a Citie in Macedonia contained, and yet they allow but one Biſhop there, whereas by the expreſſe word of GOD, there ought to be Biſhops and Deacons bPhilip. 1. 1.. To inform you yet more fully, I will tell you a ſtory. A requeſt was made, (who made it, or to whom, is not pertinent) for ſuch a length of ground as an Oxes-hide would cover (or rather be ſtretched unto.) A modeſt requeſt, it was granted; a ſmall ſpot of ground would be covered with an Oxes skin. The petitioners make much of the gift; for they did not doe as our Curriers doe, and as Homer, after his manner, relates the manner very fully, they did not tugg at it to ſtretch it out, that it might fill-up as much as poſſibly the hide could hold: But they cut large thongs out of it, as we ſay, and ſo ſtretched and tentered thoſe thongs, that they could reach over ſo much ground, as thereon to build a Citie as capacious as Philippi was, King Philips towne, and there they placed, if I well remember, one Regent. Here was a notable policie to get ground. Truly the Biſhop has dealt as politickly with the Dioceſſe, he has made it wide, and large, he has cut large thongs out of it, he has gained much ground (if all be gain that comes to his hand) he has built a palace thereon, and found a Lordſhip there; and there he (was) there he had elbow-roomth enough, and was a Lord in his Dioceſſe. Do you underſtand what an over-grown thing this Dioceſſe is? How the Biſhop hath lengthened it? what incomes the Biſhop hath from it? what proviſions were made for him there? And yet Lucullus coenat cum Lucullo [as he ſaid when he had prepared a ſupper for a King▪ which he al…ne did partake of.] All theſe proviſions and preparations are but for one Biſhop: all this to cram and fatten one Capon (that was his name who was predeceſſor to Mr. Juel (of him anon) as vile as the other was pretious. You know a Dioceſan Biſhop now, and what his Dioceſſe is; A monſtrous thing, wherein I know not how many hundred pariſhes are crowded-up together, that there may bee more roomth for the Lord. You underſtand this?

Yes, I thank you; I underſtand your meaning fully, That you would have a Biſhop in every Pariſh.

My underſtanding is not cleare there: For to be briefe with you; Firſt, I doe not allow of the name Biſhop; and I beleeve, when I ſhall have told you ſomthing about it, as I ſhall anon, you will not allow the name neither. 2. And for a Pariſh, I doe not well underſtand that diviſion, or who made that diſtinction.

Can you tell what you would have?

Yes, I thank God; I would have in ſuch a place as Philippi was, Biſhops and Deacons, for that is according to Gods expreſſe will.Phil. 1. 1.

Very true: But how many Biſhops and Deacons muſt there be for ſuch a place as Philippi was?

I cannot tell the number. But there muſt bee a Biſhop and Deacons for every Dioceſſe.

So think I too: one Biſhop for one Dioceſſe, non eſt elenchus inter nos, we are agreed.

True; but then it muſt not be a Dioceſſe ſtretched out and tentered, as the Oxes-hide was, beyond all imagination. We were concluded even now, that that is properly a Dioceſſe, which one man can overſee: and whereunto his voyce can reach, when his people are aſſembled in their meeting-place.

A meeting-place! Why not a Church?

Your queſtion is not to purpoſe, therefore you ſhall have no anſwer. Can you except againſt any word, that has been laſt ſpoken touching the Dioceſſe, and the Biſhop there? that is the queſtion.

In effect I have anſwered already, No, for what you have ſpoken, is the expreſſe will and word of GOD. But you ſeem to hold, that there is no ſuperiority in the Church: quit your ſelfe there firſt, that I may reſolve others touching that great objection.

That I will: Theſe words Biſhops and Deacons aTit. 1. 5., (not my words) hold forth the contrary, ſo alſo theſe, and ordain Elders ^a: Theſe words doe inferre, not onelyonly, That the Miniſters are above their people; but that there is a ſuperioritie amongſt themſelves; nature, ſenſe, reaſon; the naturall body, if wee ſhould goe over it, and obſerve the parts from top to toe, will cleare all this. There is the head, and ſo downward; put your finger into your mouth (that is the little worlds heaven) there are upper and lower teeth, but all doe the ſame ſervice for the body. It is ſo in the body politique; There are ſome for Counſell, they are heads; Some for direction, they are eyes; Some to uphold and beare up others, they are ſhoulders; Some for action, they are hands; It is ſo in the houſe of Parliament, two houſes they ſay; there are Speakers in both, to whom all turne themſelves when they ſpeake; Superiours for the time, and when the worke is done, then there may be a change. It is ſo in every Court, a Chaire there, and ſome one ſitting in it. It is ſo in the Aſſembly of Divines; every where, in Church, Chappell, Houſe. It is fit it ſhould be ſo, nay, it muſt be ſo. What a fond conceit is it then to thinke, That there cannot be Over-ſeers in the Church, but they muſt be everlasting Lords, and as perpetuall Dictators? There is a deſtinction of gifts, of graces; therefore of perſons, and of places. How groſſe a miſtake now to thinke, That wee allow of no Superiours, becauſe wee abhorre thoſe that have Lorded it over the LORDS inheritance? Wee doe indeed, for it is expreſſe againſt the command of GOD. I might be large here; but you are a ſober man; you are ſatisfied touching Superiours; and I have quitted my ſelfe at that point, have I not?

Indeed you have. But now, That wee are, as our vowes are upon us, throwing-down and rooting-out the Hierarchy, that Antichriſtian, that curſed Government; Its friends make clamours againſt us; Ile tell you what they ſay very briefly, (for ſo you will anſwer I am ſure,) They bring Scripture, and object firſt; That wee ſpeake evill of Dignities.Jude 8. Verſe 10.

Bid them ſay on, things, which wee know not; Then bid them prove, That wee know not, what the Dignities of Arch-biſhops and Biſhops have been: or know not, that they be evill: Bid them prove that; but that they can never doe; wee know thoſe Dignities are evill; and ſith they call evill▪ good, woe unto them. What ſay they next? They ſpeak Scripture ſtill; So did the Devill too; What is it?

That the Arch-biſhops and Biſhops, are Powers: Therefore not to be reſiſted, for there muſt be no reſiſting of Powers.

Bid them reade on; That are ordained of God. Now bid them prove, that Arch-biſhops and Lord Biſhops, &c. are ordained of GOD; are the ordinance of God.Rom. 13.

I have enough to choak my adverſaries now.

No, but you have not, They will goe on with the argument, but marke how they proceed; Juſt as a boy that goes upon his head, his heeles are upward, and ſo he ſpurnes againſt heaven; Juſt ſo, theſe kinde of men will goe-on, till they have wrought out this concluſion; That the Devill and mans will are to be obeyed; Their Reaſon, for they are POVVERS; and all powers are of God; doe you obſerve?

Yes, very well, and I am ſure, I ſhall be too hard for my Adverſaries Aug. takes away the honour (Lord) from the Biſhop, & leaves him the work: The Biſhop does clean contrary, takes to himſelf all the honour, and leaves the work. Lib. 19. ca. 19. 1 Tim 3. 1 Theſ. 2. 7, 8, 9.at that argument. But I have two words, wherein I would be ſatisfied before wee come to a full ſtop; The one is touching the office of a Biſhop; the other is, touching the name. Concerning both, great things and honourable are ſpoken, even by GOD Himſelfe. Touching the office firſt; Can you except againſt it?

No indeed can I not; I cannot except againſt a good worke, and that is the office; To give the minde to reading, to exhortation, and to doctrine, that is the office. Naturally to care for the children, exhorting, comforting, charging them (as a Father doth thence his dutie is concluded) That is the office. To be gentle among the Children, knowing them by name; affectionately deſirous after them, provoaking them by teares; and as a nurſe, cheriſhing them; That is the office. It cannot be blamed, nor the Biſhop neither. I mean the man, for he is a father, a nurſe; he is that which ſtands in the neareſt relation, importing the tendreſt care, and deareſt affection, and he is blameleſſe in all. How dare you or I blame him, whom GOD commends?

So ſay my Adverſaries too; The office is not to be blamed, nor the Biſhop; You ſee both are as ancient as Paul was; And you know too, That a Reverend Father of the Church, has calculated the nativitie of the Biſhops, and the deſcent of the office, and he finds the office in heaven; and the Biſhops before the ancient Kings in this Land.

Very true all this. And now you need not tell your Adverſaries, That the Reverend Father is anſwered by the Sonnes of the Church; …or that he ſta…ed heaven in the face ſo long, that, at laſt, he fell into the Ditch: You need not tell your Adverſaries this, for they know it well enough. I could tell you now a notable Story, as judicious Calvin tells it mee, concerning Maximilian the Emperour, a notable Story, and very pertinent; but I will not trouble you with it, onelyonly point at it in the Margin *Calvin upon Iſa. cap. 19. 11.; And ſo queſtion you a little; Doe you thinke, that Paul means by office, and Biſhop, the Government of a Catholique and univerſall Biſhop, (an Arch-biſhop) or Dioceſan, and Lord Biſhop, doe you thinke ſo?

I cannot tell what to thinke.

No; why I told you before, their office cannot be found in the earth.

They have found it in heaven.

So preſumptuouſly they ſaid, and now you ſee, though they will, not, that they are brought downe to the ſides of the pitt; You ſhould not put mee to repetition, for indeed, what I ſpake of their Government, might have ſufficed for their office. But reade the Text againe. The office is a good worke, cannot you tell your Adverſaries now, what worke they have made in the Church, and Common-wealth? I know you can. You reade alſo, That the office of Pauls Biſhop was naturally to care for his people; as a father, as a nurſe. His office was to feed the flock of Chriſt. The mightie word of GOD, was the Scepter of Pauls Biſhop, therewith he caſt downe ſtrong holds: ſtrong rodds aEzek. 19. 11.were the Scepter of theſe B…ſhops; Theſe did not feed▪ but rule the ſheepe of Chriſt with a rod of Iron bRev. 2. 27. foreign, ſignifies, He ſhall feed, or rule. The Pope and his Biſh. make the later to be the office of a Biſhop; So the ſheepe have had a hard feeding from that interpretation.. You reade againe; Pauls Biſhop muſt be blameleſſe: were theſe ſo?

What is all this to the office?

I told you before, and I will repeat it but this once, Their office is not found in heaven, or earth. It is true; If wee beleeve them, they have found their office in heaven, and have executed it upon earth (as wee heard) but who will obſerve the whole Series of things, ſhall diſcerne plainly, That a curſe has cleaven to their office evermore, cloſer than the Ivy to the wall; or the morter betwxt the joyning of the ſtones: As it alwayes does to that office, which is not of Gods ordaining, and for which, no man (though for his ſinceritie, honeſtie, learning, without exception) can be ſufficient. I will not recall here what was ſaid, how croſſe Catholick Biſhops, Lord, or Dioceſan Biſhops, are to God, and His Word. I will onelyonly ſay what ſome have ſaid of the Pope, and apply it to ours; Some Popes have been Fathers, but never any Pope an holy Father; And ſome few, very few, good men, But never any, a good Pope. So alſo as true of our Biſhops, looke wee over them all, wee may finde ſome good men (very few) but not one Good Biſhop. And this, I muſt ever thinke, is by vertue of the curſe, which cleaveth to the office.

I am in a worſe caſe to anſwer my Adverſary now, than before. Never any a good Biſhop! Many good Biſhops, ſay my Adverſaries, for many of them were martyrs.

Not many, if I remember, five onelyonly; but twice five were perſecuters. Five martyrs will not argue ſo ſtrongly for the goodneſſe of the office, as twice five againſt it. Againe, Martyrdome does not make a good Biſhop; he muſt render himſelfe good while he lives, by magnifying his office.

Well, and ſo they did. Biſhop Ridley, and Biſhop Latimer; What can you ſay againſt them?

Nothing, not a word, God has accepted them, He has pardoned, It ſhall be remembred no more; how Biſhop Ridley dealt with King Edward the Saint; he would, but I forbeare. Nor how Biſhop Latimer, that good man, over-taken through Infirmitie, did, in a Sermon, comply with a murtherer, againſt the good Kings Uncle, the good Lord Protector, too like a Biſhop.

Biſhop Hooper, what ſay you againſt him.

Againſt him! I have much to ſay for him, an excellent man he! he had his Table full (with good cheare, you will ſay, and ſo have our Biſhops too, no) full ſet with company, (he eat not his morſels alone) and they the pooreſt of his flock, and, which I would have noted, God would have it followed, he fed their ſoules firſt from his owne mouth, and then their bodies with his meat; his doctrine did drop upon them Deut. 32. 2.as the raine, and his ſpeech diſtill'd as the dew. The meaning is, he Catechiſed them firſt, and then ſaid, Eat friends, and be merry, GOD accepteth the worke. An excellent man. So was Biſhop Juel too, the Jewel Lege vitam Juelli.of our Church, ſet as a Diamond there; He gave himſelfe up to the LORD, and His worke; he ſpent and waſted a wearied body therein; and gloried in it, as well he might, that ſo he did. And it greatly refreſhed his dying ſpirits, when his ſoule ſate on his lips; That he had waſted his body, and ſpirits too in the worke of the LORD, &c. to whom he hath given-up his account with Joy.

Very well; excellent men theſe! and were not theſe good Biſhops?

Look how you force me; yet I will not reply bluntly, No: But this I ſay, All this argues the goodneſſe of the men; but does not argue the goodneſſe of the Office. They were good men; yes, and good Biſhops too: but not ſo farre as their Dioceſſe reached, for that was all over whole Shires: But ſo far as they could overſee their flocks, ſo far as they could quit themſelves as good Biſhops, catechiſing their poore people, exhorting, comforting, or as we heard, ſo farre, and not further. They were good Stewards, and faithfull in their adminiſtration, (that is as much as is required) ſo farre as was poſſible for their overſight and care to reach. We think, and with reaſon, that a man cannot be ſaid to be a faithfull Steward in that houſe where hee never was, nor can know what roomes or what perſons are within. I ſay then, for I would be as plain as I can, ſo farre as their overfight could extend, (that is, to the compaſſe and extent of that Dioceſſe, explained before) ſo far they did well, no men ever before them better. Wee ſay further, and we think it is no more but what all muſt grant, That there is a point (eaſily decernible) where the creatures impotency and weakneſſe muſt neceſſarily ſet bounds to his overſight: if yet he will willingly Auguſtus, Candidus, Philopater, &c. good names, and Sapientiae, Iuſtinians Townes name, exceeded all, but no honour theſe names to the perſons. Salv. lib. 3. …. & lib. 4. within two leaves of the end. lege Naz. Orat. 21.and knowingly, for ends beſt known to himſelfe, if hee will lanch-out further beyond theſe bounds, and ſo out-bound himſelfe. At that very point of his tranſgreſſion he ſhall meet with a curſe. In ſhort, the meaning is, To that very point and part of the office, which out-compaſſeth the officer, thereto the curſe cleaveth, which the perſon may quit himſelf of, but he ſhall never quit the Office. And ſo I have done my beſt to cleare your underſtanding touching the office.

Indeed you have cleared the office of a Biſhop, now I hope you will allow us the name.

No matter for my allowance, you need not ſtand upon that; but yet, I wiſh you would not contend for a name, an empty thing. A name! what is that, if the man be nought? Cain, a good name, the man not ſo. Abel a vain name, the man was excellent. I aſſure you, the vileſt men have had the beſt names; Popes have been called Pious and Innocent both. It is true as the heathen Emperour ſaid, Nomina magna oneroſa, great names are great burthens; good names are a good engagement to fill-up, to anſwer their names. A Chriſtian King, a Chriſtian man, is an honourable name; but diſhonours him or them very much, who are not anſwerable to that name, but are againſt Chriſt all they can.

But I pray you, tell me, what is your reaſon why we ſhould relinguiſh the name?

I will; but you muſt tell me firſt, the reaſon why we ſhould retaine the name?

That I can doe, I can give one reaſon which ſhall have more weight in it, then two of yours, it is a Scripture name, Biſhop Timothy, Biſhop Titus, and Biſhop Peter, Biſhop of Rome, as I heare.

You doe not well to tell me what you heare, and neglect what you read, which is this, as Peter ſpeakes of himſelfe, Who am alſo an Elder. d1 Pet. 5. 1. foreign. 2 Iohn..

He was the chiefeſt of the Apoſtles, the Papiſts ſay.

There is no heed to bee taken to what they will ſay, they prattle clean contrary to what Paul ſayes of himſelfe, and Peter of himſelfe. But if you would obſerve their Acts, and one Chapter there, you would ſee it as cleare as noon day, that Peter was not the chiefe, (nay, there was no chief amongſt them) nor was he Biſhop.

I am ſure we have Biſhop Timothy, and Biſhop Titus: for I can point to the place.

You can; but neither to the chapter nor the verſe, which you might have done, if it had been Canonicall. The Biſhop hath thruſt it into our Bibles, as they have thruſt in a whole family of the Ieſuits *Numb. 26. 44. A text as boldly perverted, and ſo has been ever ſince 1610. As are the contents before Pſal. 149.into our Engliſh Bibles; a notable prank. God has found them out for this, they ſhall be thruſt out, and then our Bibles ſhall be purged.

Chriſt himſelfe is called a Biſhop.

He is not: He is called an Overſeer, and ſo he is; and by his Vicar generall, hee looks to his flock, he cares for them, he holds them faſt, not one of them ſhall be loſt or taken out of his hand. To put you out of doubt, Biſhop is not a Scripture name: for it is neither Hebrew, nor Greek, nor Latine, nor does it concerne you what it is, onelyonly pertinent to this place it is; That it is not a Scripture name, and ſo your ſtrong reaſon, as mighty as two, proves nothing, why the name ſhould be retained. Now if it pleaſe you, Ile give you my reaſons why the name ſhould be aboliſhed.

It pleaſeth me very well: I pray you let me heare them.

Firſt, becauſe it is a name ſo greatened and hightened, that we have not roomth enough in the world, not a place big enough, or high enough to containe his Lordſhip; he has out-compaſſed a naturall body. Let his name goe. Secondly, the name is abuſed, clean perverted, as the name Tyrant is, a good name once, and good Engliſh ſtill: for it ſignifies a King; but when the King ſtretched his power the contrary way, to the hurt of his people, in ſtead of doing them good; and to the ſubverſion of his Kingdome, and throwing downe lawes and liberties, in ſtead of building all up; Then the name grew odious, and was aboliſhed. The ſame reaſon for the aboliſhing this name; The Biſhops, not Prelates, but Pilats; not Paſtors, but Impoſtors; not Doctors, but ſeducers, as their unreaſonable carriage has cauſed the Rime. They have made the name odious, and themſelves abominable. A ſufficient reaſon why the name ſhould be aboliſhed, and themſelves, as aforeſaid. Thirdly, Biſhop is as terrible a name to ſome, as a Divell is: as pleaſing as a God to others. That neither ſide may be hurt, take it away: It is the Idoll of the land, Idolized as much in our dayes, as the Brazen Serpent was in King Hez…kiahs dayes. I cannot ſubmit here to anothers judgement; I muſt judge it very reaſonable, That, as when the people began to put a religious honour upon the Serpent, then the King would have it called plain Braſſe. So now, ſith Biſhop is ſo idolized by the common 2 King. 18. 4.people, let the name goe, and let the man be called a Miniſter of Ieſus Chriſt. If he be ſo indeed, he will like well of the name, for it is all one, as if he were called, The meſſenger of the Churches, and the glory of Chriſt. I might adde a fourth reaſon here, There is no need of the name; Caſt it away, and there will be no lacke.

Laſtly, ſhould I reade you a leafe in the Rhem: Teſtament, how effectuall the holding-up and keeping-in of names has been, for the keeping-in of abominable perſons, and things; you would yeeld mee ſo farre at leaſt, That this name Biſhop, is to be aboliſhed. I have don.

And I am ſatisfied, and at a ſweet agreement in my ſoule, That Arch-biſhops, Lord-Biſhops, their Government and office, is to be thruſt-out; and the name aboliſhed. I pray you heartily, give me leave to weepe.

You need not aske leave, you have a command for that; Weepe with them that weepe. It is ſufficient you have a command to weepe for your owne ſinnes, and others, and for the ſlaine of the people. You have example for it too; To make your couch ſwim with teares; your eyes flow like rivers; and to make the place you ſtand in a Bochim *Judg. 1. 5, a place of weeping, for reaſons many, from within, and from without; weepe and ſpare not.

To tell you the truth, I never thought of this kinde of weeping; I asked you leave to weepe for company with the Kings and Merchants of the earth; Becauſe their gods are taken away, and what have they more?

O monſtrous! weepe for company with the Kings and Merchants of the earth! This indeed is to weepe with them, that weepe; but it is to doe as thoſe women did, who ſate weeping for Tammuz.Ezek. 8. 14

That is Hebrew, is it not?

No nor Greeke neither; It was an Aegyptian-god, a moſt abominable Idoll: As comely a poſture now, for Kings and Merchants of the earth, to ſit weeping over the Hierarchy, amore abominable Idoll than was that Tammuz.

I yeeld to you heartily. But truly I intended to weepe in a merriment onelyonly, as I have heard one did; and ſo Ile tell you a Story, to refreſh you and my ſelfe a little; A little man, but a great Tyrant, was ferrying-over to a place, from whence he muſt never returne: And a poore Cobler, who was mightily oppreſſed by that Tyrant, was in the ſame Boat with him; The Tyrant wept heartily, for he was taken from all his gods, he ſhould ſee them no more, neither his Palaces, nor his Lordſhips, and ſo he cryed lamentably. The Ferriman, a merry fellow, would make the Cobler cry too, and ſo he did; O mee poore Cobler! I have taken Sanctuary now at the place, where the wicked ceaſe from troubling; where the weary lie at reſt; They heare not the voyce of the oppreſſed. O mee poore wretch! I ſhall mend ſhooes no more; I ſhall labour no more; I ſhall feele neither hunger nor thirſt any more.

Ile heare no more, not a word more, though I know it might be well applyed. You have made it pretty Chriſtian, yet it is not for this place. I would have you rejoyce in all the peoples ſight, and ſing aloud for joy of heart, for ſo the upright doe. Certainly, there is the ſame cauſe now to rejoyce, as the Church had, when they went through the Pſal. 66. 6.flood on foote: There did wee rejoyce in Him, (our Fathers went over, wee rejoyce:) And for the ſame reaſon, for wee ſay now, as they did then, Thy right hand, O Lord, is become glorious in power, and ſo forth; for wonderfull workes follow, as are the workes of GOD now adayes. Certainly, the Church has the ſame cauſe of rejoycing, as it had, when the great Dragon was caſt-out; Then was heard a loud voyce, ſaying, in Rev. 12. 9, 10.heaven (in the Church) now is come ſalvation, &c. reade it out. Certainly, the Churches time is coming, nay, it is come, when Babylon muſt be throwne downe. Therefore wee muſt now heare, a great voyce of much Rev. 18. 21people in heaven (the Church) ſaying, Hallelujah, Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God, Amen.Rev. 19. 1.

I thanke you Sir, you have made good uſe of my fained teares, and fained mirth; you have taught mee how to doe both in good earneſt.

It is an hard leſſon, heare me forth, I pray you, and The LORD grant I may heare my ſelfe. (1) If you doe weep indeed; if you are grieved indeed; then your griefe is more, That you have grieved GOD, than becauſe His and your Adverſaries have grieved you, that is firſt. (2) If you rejoyce indeed, then you rejoyce with trembling. (3.) If you prayſe GOD indeed for the workes He has done, (I cannot expreſſe how wonderfull they are) then you live to His praiſe; That is Selah; then you riſe-high in praiſes, when your life praiſeth Him, that is, when your converſation is in heaven. If God, your God, is your ſtrength; then He is your Song: If He be your Salvation, He is your praiſe too. (4.) If you long to ſee God appeare in His Glory; To ſee Him worſhipped according to His Command, in a Church-way: Then you are fitting and making your heart meet for ſuch a worſhip; and you commune with your owne heart upon your bed, enquiring what holineſſe you have gained by the Ordinances you now have; for they that are not good husbands, and thriving under theſe, I cannot tell whether they ſhall be truſted with greater matters. (5.) And to ſhutt up this matter; If it be with you as aforeſaid, Then your heart is open, and your mouth open, and your purſe is open, and your hands hang not down; All you have, and all you are, ſhall be expended, laid out for Him, for His Name, for His cauſe, for His ſervants, All for Him, who hath ſo laid-forth all His Attributes for us, A falling, ſinking, dying Nation; All for Him, (forget it not) who remembred us in our low eſtate. All for Him. Amen.

I joyne with you heartily, and that is all the anſwer I can make to all the fore-mentioned. I muſt enquire further of you for reſolution now; The Government by Biſhops, it is gone, it is fallen like a great Milſtone; It ſhall be found no more in heaven, the Church, Amen.

There are now two wayes of Government, (I expreſſe it as I can, and as I conceive it in the moſt popular way) The Presbyterian way; the Independent way. The Adverſary meets mee in both wayes, croſſeth mee in the one, choakes mee in the other. I beſeech you, Sir, for Gods ſake, and His cauſe, be pleaſed to give mee ſatisfaction, that I may ſatisfie others, who finding mee almoſt your Conver…

Ile cut you ſhort there. I pray you doe not call your ſelfe my Convert. If the Word of GOD has not turned you, hold you where you firſt were, for Arch-biſhops, Lord, or Dioceſan-Biſhops, hold you there.

God forbid. But I pray you pardon the Word; It relates to you, but as to an inſtrument, and let mee goe on; My Adverſaries finding me a Convert, hitt mee in the teeth with this; You are for the Scotts Diſcipline, the Presbyteriall-Government, a Rigid Government, worſe than the Biſhops, an Iron yoake.

Anſwer them thus, but in the Spirit of meekneſſe; as you tender the Glory of GOD, and the good of His choſen; ſhew no heat in theſe matters; but tell them, They are cleane miſtaken. The Scotts Diſcipline is as neare, as their light has carried them, cloſe up to the Word of God; and as more light ſhall appeare, cloſer-up they will come. Tell them, God has appeared to that people in that way, wonderfully, marvailouſly: And a great Reformation is wrought amongſt them, a great Reformation! And great things has the LORD wrought by them, and marvailous! And if wee trust not in them, if wee leane not on their arme, great things will they doe for us. But for their Diſcipline, ſay againe, That, were not the Pillars out of courſe; and the Lawes ſilent, becauſe the Trumpet is ſo loud; could their heads and leaders walke in the way with a right foote *Gal. 2. …. foreign., as the word is, and as they deſire to goe: could they keepe cloſe, and keepe their people cloſe, in this extravigant time, to their owne rule, and principles; Then your Adverſaries now would agree with you, and acknowledge, That they have, after their manner, blaſphemed the Scotts, and their way. Tell mee now, Doe you thinke that this I have ſaid will not ſtop the Adverſaries mouth, ſo wide open againſt the Scotts Diſcipline?

No indeed; All this will not ſtop the mouth of the Adverſary. The reaſon is, Becauſe ſome mouthes will not be ſtopped, till they be wrapt-up in a winding ſheet, and ſtopped about with dirt. But you have anſwered mee, and I am ſatisfied at that point. My adverſary will meet mee at another point, and he will b…fle mee there, or choake mee quite. He will tell mee, You ſhall have Lords in every place more abſolute than was the Lord-Biſhop, for they will be more independent. That choaks me quite, I have not a word to reply. I entreat you, Sir, helpe mee here, and tell mee, what you thinke of that way, what is your judgement thereof, I meane judgement as wee ſpeake popularly.

You ſay well, elſe I ſhould have ſaid, who made mee a Judge? Indeed you ſhould not have craved my judgement, which is ſo low and ſmall, in ſo high and great matters. But fith you crave it, take it, as it is, and make the beſt of it: Thus I judge of the way; It is an excellent way, an heavenly way, a Church-way, an holy way: And the excellent of the earth walke in that way, and are for that way; and that is as much as I ſhall ſay concerning the way.

It is enough; but you muſt make good what you ſay.

That needs not, and yet it ſhall be made manifeſt and apparent to your eyes, though I ſay no more; for what are words? The converſation of theſe men who are for this way, in their owne houſe, and in the houſe of GOD, this holds-forth their way to be an holy, an heavenly, a Church-way, as was ſaid; there is the proofe.

It is indeed, and The Church in thy houſe is the praiſe in the Goſpel. But is not the converſation of thoſe men, who are for the other way, as gracious, as holy, as Church-like, as is the converſation of theſe men who are for the Independent way?

Indeed my ſpirit is ſtirred, I had beſt to ſtop a while, leſt I fire upon you, and word it with you, and ſo marre all—I doe bethink my ſelfe of the way we are upon; I muſt doe nothing unbeſeeming that way; elſe you ſhould heare words ſharp or cutting You would force Tit 1. 13me to make compariſons, they are odious, The converſation of the one and the other is Church-like, elſe they are not in a Church-way. I ſpake not words, but my heart before. I proteſt unto you, I doe ſo honour the Scots, and their way, that I can ſcarce keep my heart from idolizing them in their way: And certainy, could it doe them any good, I could waſh their feet, and kiſſe them when I have done, ſuch love I beare to them and their way. You will give me leave now, ſith it is for your ſatisfaction, to tell you my judgement touching this way, and ſo I have done heartily: Now you would have me make compariſons: No but I will not.

Pardon me, Sir, and teach me I pray you, what I ſhall anſwer to my adverſaries, who tell me that the men you ſo commend, are Independent. men. What ſhall I ſay to this?

Tell your adverſaries, they are fouly miſtaken.

The men ſay ſo themſelves, they call themſelves Independents.

They doe not ſure. But you are a learner, beleeve me: The men that are for this way, are the moſt (I had like to have exceeded in compariſon) are as Dependent men, as any are in the world. They lean upon their beloved evermore; they ſeek counſell at his mouth evermore; they would not move a ſtep, nor ſpeake a word without him: they hearken diligently what their LORD ſaith: And they will hearken what any man, though the loweſt of men, any man ſhall ſay unto them from their LORDS mouth. They independent! How independent? As you and I are in our houſes; low and weak men, we, and yet wee will not ſuffer another man to Lord it over us in our houſe: for the Cook, they ſay, will not abide it in his Kitchin; ſo Independent we and the Cook are. And yet ſo dependent we are, that our practices, our duties, our Doctrines, &c. are ſubject to the Spirit of the Prophets, as they ſubmit themſelves to the Spirit breathing in the Word, the Rule of all. I could wiſh heartily, a better and larger explication of this word, then here is time, or place, or ability to make: becauſe it is ſo generally miſunderſtood, it ſhould have a more free and full explication.

What ſay you to the gathering of Churches? The language of the times, and the practice of grave and learned Miniſters; what ſay you to it?a Matth. 24. 40. Luke 17. 34.

I will, in all meekneſſe and ſubmiſſion to better judgement, boltout what I have conceived; That this ſeparating, this culling and gathering work, is reſerved for the Angels when GOD ſhall give them commiſſion, b Hiphlah Pſaſ. 4. 3. Then the Lord ſets apart him that is godly for himſelfe.and then a marvelous ſeparating ſhall be; for then Two ſhall be in one bed, &c. the one ſhall be taken, the other left: ſo it will be then, a gathering, a culling out one from another who ſtood before in the neereſt relation, were partakers of the ſame worke and reward, then a ſeparation, and not till then in an orderly way. Now husband, wife, child, and ſervant, all ſhould goe together to the ſame place, there to partake of the ſame ordinances.

Very well: But then the wife that is ſpirituall, may partake of the ſame holy things with her husband, who is carnall: And the ſervant, that is the Lords free-man, may break bread with his maſter, who is to every good work reprobate. What ſay you to that?

Not much, let the Paſtors or Miniſters look to that.

But here is a leaven now in our congregation, which leaveneth the 1 Cor. 5 6whole lump.

Search the Scriptures, and enquire wee of our Teachers whether that be the meaning, That another mans wickedneſſe can leaven you: Enquire concerning that matter, you will read, To the clean all things are clean ^•. I cannot think that unclean perſons, whom the ſacred Scripture calls Dogs and Swine, can pollute childrens bread to children. Ile tell Tit 1. 15. foreign. Luk. 11. 41 All things are clean unto you. Ne omnes Angelos, ſi Miſſa interſint, &c. Epiſt. 265.you what Calvin ſayes; My poſition is (ſaith he) that a pious or ſacred action cannot be defiled by the fault or pollution of men: And thus I uſe to cleare it; If all the Angels in heaven were preſent at the Maſſe (that abomination) they could not, with all their holineſſe, waſh off the filth of that Sacrifice; nor can all the Divels in hell (if preſent at the holy Supper) defile that ſacred Ordinance to me, received by me with pure hands, and a clean heart.

If this gathering of Churches be according to the expreſſe Word of GOD, why ſhould you or any man be againſt it?

According to the word of God, and againſt it! God forbid, only, I ſay, ſith there is an if in it▪ let us, ſimple ones, ſtay a while, till further enquiry be made at Gods mouth, and reſolution given touching that matter, that ſo all (ifs) may be taken away.

But in the mean time here are two wayes.

Yes, ſeemingly, and no more: As two wayes upon a great Common or Heath, which anon will meet in one: or as two ſtreams which break the bank a little, and ſo run croſſe, but after a ſmall circuit about, meet again, running into the ſame channell. I leave theſe wayes under hope, and full perſwaſion, that a way ſhall be taken to cleare this word and way, from a ſure word, ſo as both wayes ſhall meet in one; and all that are ſeemingly divided there, ſhall kiſſe and embrace each other as brethren: for they ſhall enquire, not each of other, what is this m…ns way, or that mans way, but of GOD, and the word of GOD, they ſhall enquire what is GODS way, and the way of his people, concerning which they are charged, This is the way, walke in it. I have told you my hope, I will ſhew you the grounds of this hope. The firſt,

1. Wee have a promiſe, I will give them one heart and one way. A ſure Ier. 32 39.word; It is don; So The LORD ſpeaks of things to be don in His appointed time, the beſt time: God is one; The Lord Chriſt one; faith one; Church one; without doubt the way ſhall be one, and the foole ſhall Iſa 35. 8.not erre.

2. Wee ſee how the Aſſemblies both conſpire in one, To unite hearts and affections, and judgements, ſo to make all one! Wee ſee this, elſe wee ſee nothing.

Indeed I doe not ſee it, I can tell you that there are in the Aſſemblies, ſome for this way, and ſome for that, and very eager and hot-ſpirited they are for their way, as was told me.

And you might tell your ſelfe; That Angells are not Aſſembled there, but men, ſubject to the like paſſions as wee are, and may declare them too openly as men doe. But this I can tell you, That theſe men who are indeed for a Church-way (an holy way what ever it be) and doe walke in it, have been greatly humbled for that eagerneſſe of ſpirit, if more than was fitting, which was declared in their contention for that way: And before they came to their ſeats next day, where they were a note too high, they were low in humiliation, they afflicted their ſoules for being ſo high the day before; And they have made their watch the ſtronger for after-time, and for ever. And this for mightie reaſons; (1) Becauſe they are contenders for a holy way; All muſt be don in an holy manner, Church-like. (2.) They know alſo, many there are, who watch for their holting. It is enough for Caution.

3. There are mightie wraſtlings, the wraſtlings of GOD, ſtrong prayers; His ſervants will not let their Lord alone; They will give their God no reſt. Jacob weeps and he prayes; God muſt anſwer him; Jacob will not leave His GOD, without He leaves a bleſſing behinde Him. Heare you what ſeeking, and knocking, and praying there is, Lord, give the Nobles and Worthies in their Aſſemblies, to be perfectly joyned together in the ſame minde, and in the ſame judgement, for this one way; That the LORD may be one, and His Name one in all Congregations. It is don, ſeekers ſhall be obtainers. As Jacob, ſo the ſeed of Jacob never ſought God in vaine. God is appearing in His Glory, for the deſtitute are importunate with Him; Now I will ariſe, ſaith the Lord. And indeed He Pſal. 102. 17.does ariſe in all His peoples ſight; and He has made bare His Arme, even His Right Arme, and has done valiantly; Let the ſervants of the LORD ſay ſo, even for what they have ſeene, though they ſhould live to ſee no more. Their fathers have ſowen prayers, and watered them with teares, and wee have reaped. What a returne of prayers have wee ſeene! O wonderfull! Jacob has prayed, and the ſeed of Jacob has prayed, and then He ſpake unto us *Hoſ…a. 12. 4.; Wee have the fruit of their prayers; They prayed, Lord caſt-out the vile, ſet in their roome the precious; Note, that they doe cauſe all the trouble, who have a 3d. way, the way of their own hearts, and that way they would goe.Lord purge the Temple, the ſervices there; Lord give thy people pure Ordinances; So they prayed; Then the Lord ſpake unto us; and as He ſpake, ſo He has don in our Dayes, Bleſſed, bleſſed, bleſſed be His Name; Then He ſpake unto us. O what cauſe have wee every one of us, To make our hearts Temples, our houſes Churches, our lives living monuments of His prayſe, That a Church-way, and a Church-life, and Church-Ordinances, all holy, and pure, may meet together, and kiſſe each other, Amen, and Amen.

To take a view of what is ſaid, wee have ſeene the Biſhops way, the way of Caine; Waſting and deſtruction is there, their foot ſtands, even at this preſent, in the path of the deſtroyer; Yet the Biſhops have their Advocates, thoſe, who plead for them and their way. The ſober man has what to anſwer; And is ſhewen an excellent way, the old way. There is a parting in it, as wee obſerve, the ſame way compaſſing an hill, and meeting againe in the valley, for the eaſe of man and beaſt. [As a Beaſt Iſa. 63. 14. Leniter et commodè duxit ut ſolet, jumentū duct in deſcenſu mont is ardui. Iſa 63. 1.goeth downe into the valley, ſo the LORD will have his people lead] This way is as it is called a Church-way, the way of Holineſſe. No Lion ſhall be there; The uncleane ſhall not paſſe-over it. And now that I have mentioned them, the uncleane, I come to the remainder of my undertakings, The caſting-out of the Biſhops Curates, thoſe uncleane perſons, for like Biſhops, like Curates; called ſo in a contrarietie to their office, as a mountaine is called in a contrarietie to what it does; It has its name from motion, they ſay, but moves like a mountaine: So theſe Curates have their names, as Biſhops have theirs, from cure and care, and over-ſight, when they care for nothing, nor did overſee any thing, but their Rents, Tythes, and in comes: and to make proviſion for their luſts. Wee cannot thinke, that Wren or Pearce, (theſe were called Biſhops) would endure, their Curates ſhould be better than themſelves, but as themſelves, as brutiſh men, as drunken ſotts, as vile Prieſts, as treacherous Prophets, as looſe and ſwiniſh in their life, and then, more then probable, they will be Naballs at their death. And what are the people now, that their guides are blind and brutiſh; They muſt needs be ſo too; from the Prophets and Prieſts is prophaneneſſe gone forth into all the Land; Jer. 23. 15.They have leavened the Land with Atheiſme, abominable Idolatries, and Heatheniſh prophaneneſſes. And now all yee beaſts of the feild come Iſa 56. 9.to devoure; yea, all yee beaſts in the Forreſt. And ſo it is according to the good word of the LORD; for His watchmen are blind they are all ignorant, Ver. 10.they are all dumbe doggs, they cannot barke, ſleeping, lying downe, lo…ing to ſlumber. You ſee whom I meane by theſe Curates; I argue now for the caſting-of-them-forth.

They that have committed the ſame abominations, which others, It is argued for the caſting-out of Curates. Jer. 29. 2…having committed, have been roſted in the fire, and then made a curſe; Theſe ought to be thruſt-out of the Land, by the Law of the Land: But theſe Curates have committed ſuch abominations. Speake, have you any thing to ſay for them.

Not a word, I muſt not plead for them, whom God condemnes; You muſt make proofe, That ſo they have don, according to thoſe abominations.

They have committed villanies in Iſrael, adultery with their neighbours wives; They have ſpoken lying words, (God knowes how many,) They have blaſphemed God, and the King; they have polluted God, and his Day, and his Houſe, and all the honours and ſervices there.

You have ſaid, you have not proved.

There is the cleareſt proofe of all this that can be deſired. A Century is come-out already, where their names are upon everlaſting Record, and their horrible abominations regiſtred: That one Century, (a hundred) implies nine Centuries more, they make a Chiliad, a thouſand. And certainly, had wee the names of thoſe, and their abominations regiſtred alſo, who are under the Kings protection, we ſhould have a booke, as large as that wee call the Centuries.

Now that their places, their wickedneſſe rather, have ſpewed-them-out, whither are they gone?

To the place where ſuch men ſhall finde favour, to Oxford. They have proceeded to the higheſt degrees of wickedneſſe in the countries, they are Doctors in the Art of drinking, whoring, rioting, now they gone to Oxford, as we ſay, to proceed Doctors of Divinity; and thence diſperſed to thoſe ſeverall places, whence Gods faithfulleſt ſervants have been caſt-out, where they will drink the healths, for they cannot pray, of their good Lords and Maſters, and for the proſperity of their Armies, now in Array againſt the Lord Jeſus Chriſt: for as thoſe Armies proſper, ſo the Curates ſhall proſper. But now we heare they ſhall be all ſummoned to make their appearance at Oxford: for as they have there a thing they call a Parliament, made-up as aforeſaid, for the ſubverting the Lawes, and Liberties of the Kingdome: ſo there muſt bee an aſſembly of Divines too, ſuch as have been ſpued out of their places, for the eſtabliſhing of the religion ſo often proteſted for. Ah Lord! But I forbeare. The poore commit themſelves to the Lord, Thou ſhalt preſerve Pſal. 1…. ….them from this generation for ever. The wicked walke on every ſide, when the vileſt men are ex…lted.

Theſe Curates, as unſavoury ſalt, are caſt-out of the Church; Now the Divell has admitted them into his Chappell: Let him take their Service too: For, as like Biſhops like Curates: ſo, like Curates like Service, abominable all. I argue for the caſting of it forth.

This ſervice is Dogs-meat, it muſt be caſt-out to the Dogs.

I could never think the Curates Service to be childrens meat, but never heard I the Curates ſervice called Dogs-meat before.

Yes, you imply as much your ſelfe, If not childrens meat, then whoſe meat? Dogs-meat, I think. But I argue it, Torn fleſh is Dogs-meat. The Curates ſervice is as Torne fleſh.

Prove that if you can, That the Curates ſervice is as Torn fleſh.

The Curates Service is a torn, diſtracted ſervice; here is a peece, & there is a peece; here is the former part, and there is the latter; here the firſt ſervice, & there the ſecond ſervice; here read at the Desk; there ſaid in the Pulpit; thence drawn up to the Altar: here are ſaying prayers, there are tooting prayers, upon the Cymball and the Organ; here they roared like Beares, there they braied like Aſſes, and yet Divine ſervice, they ſay: But hearken what the LORD ſayes; As torn fleſh, Dogges Exod. 22. 38. Mal. 1. 13meat, ſo is theſe Curates Service unto Me, Doe you bring that which is torne to me? Caſt it to the Dogges. It is done, they have it at Oxford, and all over the Land; yea all over the Chriſtian world, where the Devill hath his Chappell, and where theſe abominable Curates and Prieſts are. Let them alone with their meat, no man envies them; no good man but pittieth them, yet let them alone, theſe Curates with their ſervice together.

Now I muſt compleat my undertaking, and argue againſt the Neuters.

I pray you explain your ſelfe, and tell us what theſe are?

What they are! They are Neuters, a curſed generation of men, ſeem not to know their right hand from their left; not which way to Who are …uters.turn. I can liken them to nothing ſo fit, as to a ſhadow of a man, a picture▪ ſuch as you may obſerve ordinary in Flanders; There is a thing they call a Chriſt on the left hand; another thing they call the virgin Mary on the right hand; and in the midſt, a third thing called a Catholick, with this inſcription before him, Crime vortam neſcio.

Ile heare no more of that; ſuch a picture does not become your gravity, nor is it proper to the matter in hand.

I like your plainneſſe well, I ſpake it but to try how you had profited by all our diſcourſe hitherto. True it is, ſuch a picture gives us no inſtruction touching the ſubject in hand; for which way ſoever the looker-on had turned, death was on either hand. But now take things as indeed they are, not repreſented to us, but indeed and in truth.

Here is the Living God, the Lord Chriſt, and his Truths on the right hand. Here is the Devill, his Pope and his Biſhops with all their blaſphemies, on the other hand; yet, cui me vortam neſcio, the man is not yet reſolved what hand to take, he is a Neuter.

Secondly, here is on the right hand, a Parliament called together by the King himſelfe, acknowledged a Parliament, confirmed and eſtabliſhed a Parliament by his own hand: On the left hand there are Aſſemblies of (Robbers) which they call a Parliament (in Oxford) made up of the refuſe and garbage of the land, and yet, cui me vortam neſcio, to what hand he may turne, he cannot tell. This is a Neuter.

Thirdly, here are, on the right hand, Nobles and Worthies, who have approved themſelves true Patriots, zealous of Gods honour, and faithfull to their King and Kingdome; who can have no other end, as is cleare to all the Chriſtian world, but the peace of the Church, the honour and ſafety of the King and Kingdome, no other end: On the other hand are, left-handed men, robbers, ſpoilers, murtherers, unjuſt men, who know no ſhame, who are as roaring Lions, and devouring Wolves, to the inhabitants all over the land; yet, cui me vortam neſcio, he knowes not to which ſide he ſhould joyne; he is a Neuter.

Fourthly, Here are a generation of Seekers, who ſeek God day & night, who have commanded us as Q. Eſter her people, Goe, aſſemble your ſelues Eſt. 4. 16.together, faſt and pray for us, we alſo will doe likewiſe, theſe are on the right hand: On the left hand there is the Prince of Robbers, Murthetherers, they that curſe and ſweare, and blaſpheme all the day long; yet, cui me vortam neſcio, to what hand to turn hee knowes not, Hee is a Neuter.

To ſpeak yet more plainly, and according to the expreſſe word of God. They are Neuters who come not out to help the Lord againſt the mighty; mighty Nimrods, mighty hunters before the LORD, men skilfull to deſtroy the Faith, Religion, Lawes, Liberties of the Kingdome; mighty hunters before the Lord; yet theſe will not come forth to help the Lord at ſuch a time as this; no though the Lord calls to them now, Who will riſe up for me againſt the evill doers? Or who will ſtand up for me Pſa. 94. 16against the workers of iniquity? Theſe will not, theſe are Neuters.

Poſſibly, nay probably theſe may not know that things are as they are; things are repreſented to them otherwiſe, as they have heard it declared and proteſted more than ſeven times; They may not know.

What may they not know? They doe know that Ireland is deſtroyed. They doe know that this viperous generation is eating-out the heart and bowels of the Kingdome; They doe know that the Faith, Religion, Lawes and Liberties of the Kingdome are deſtroyed under a colour and ſemblance of maintaining the ſame. They doe know, &c. But I will tell you a ſtory firſt; That notable murtherer, who ſtab'd K. Henry the 4^th of France, was examined whether hee did not make known his purpoſe to his Ghoſtly Father, his Confeſſor; Hee anſwered, Yes; His Confeſſor, a Jeſuit, was examined at that point; he anſwered, he did not know (that is, to tell them) but very likely, ſaid he, the intention was made known unto me, under the Roſe, and I have a gift (of the ſpirit) preſently to forget what is told me under the ſeale of Confeſſion. My Author is not at hand, nor doe I remember how they dealt with him; but certainly, they took a ready way to quicken his memory before hee was cut aſunder: ſo it muſt be here, Theſe men pretend they know not this, and they know not that, They will not know, or they will not know to tell us. But they diſſemble in all that they ſay; They doe know that the Kings foot ſtands up to the knees in blood, in the path of the deſtroyer. They doe know, that he has caſt forth all the pretious Miniſters of Juſtice, and Miniſters of the Goſpel, where his hand could reach; and thruſt in the vile into their places; They doe know what the Queen has done beyond the ſeas, what Digby with her favourites (her Agents and factors for Babylon) what theſe have done there, and what they are doing here; They doe know what is in deſigne, how bloody the adverſaries intentions are, and that they have ſlain the ſervants of the Lord with a rage that reacheth up to hea…en ſo high muſt their judgement reach: This they doe know. They doe know that the King has made peace with his worſt enemies, & is at warres with, and bids defiance to his beſt friends. They doe know, That the King is plucking down his own houſe; That he has thruſt away the great ſupporters of his Throne, Iudgement and Iuſtice. They do know what the King has proteſted, proclaimed, declared to all the world; And they doe know what his Commiſſions have been, how bloody, how deſtructive. They doe know how that Bristoll is given into the enemies hands, and they doe heare that the Queen ſhall have a Chappell there: They doe heare the groanes of the priſoners, and the cries of the poore becauſe of their Taskmaſters: for their oppreſſion is more grievous than is, or ever was, the Turkiſh or Egyptian ſlavery. They doe know, which way the Devill, and all his miniſters doe draw, now, and yet they withdraw themſelves as men that know not which way to turn, They are Neuters. Hang them, cut them aſunder. It is the ſentence from the law of Nature, of Nations, of Armes: It is the ſentence from the law of God too.

1. It is againſt the law of Nature, that they who are without naturall affection, ſhould enjoy the common gifts of nature, light, water, fire. Againſt the law of Nations and Arms, that thoſe ſubjects ſhould enjoy the priviledges and communities of ſubjects, who ſee with open face, the adverſary and enemy deſtroying all theſe, and hold their hands in their pockets the while. Againſt the law of GOD, that they who ſee the Lawes, Rights, Liberties of his kingdome trampled upon by ſwine, and yet ſtand Neuters, that they ſhould not feel the ſharpeſt puniſhment. I will argue theſe things in order.

They that are the ſame, and have done the ſame which he did, and for It is argued for the caſting-out of Neuters.doing ſo was plucked a ſunder with two Teemes of Horſes, four Horſes in a Teeme, do deſerve to be caſt out of the land by the law of the land. But theſe Neuters are the ſame as he was, and do the ſame as he did, for which he was ſo puniſhed. Therefore, &c.

2. To relate to a more known ſtory, They that are the ſame, and have done the ſame, and for doing whereof, others, their fellow-brethren, have had their skin torne from their fleſh, and their fleſh from their bones, theſe doe deſerve to be caſt-out of the land: But theſe are the ſame, and doe the ſame which they did, who, in former time, were ſo puniſhed. Therefore theſe ought to bee caſt-out by the law of the Land.

3. They that are the ſame, and doe the ſame, which they did, who were curſed from Gods mouth, and commanded to be curſed by all the people theſe ought to be caſt-out of the land by the law of the land. But theſe are the ſame, and doe the ſame, which they did, who were ſo curſed. Therefore, &c.

Prove that theſe Neuters now, doe now as they did in ancient times.

They doe now the ſame thing: for they get to an upper-place (in Metius Suffetius.ſpeculation) as he did ſpying which ſide is ſtrongeſt, and likelieſt to prevaile; and to that ſide they will wheel about anon. But that is too farre of; I will take that which is neerer the eye. Theſe men doe as the men of Succoth did, therefore theſe are as the men of Succoth were, &c.

I can ſay nothing to that; I know not what the men of Succoth were; or whether there were ſuch a people in the world.

It is your ignorance, and not to be excuſed; you know not the Scriptures, and therefore your workes muſt needs be bad, and you muſt walke as a man in the darke; It is a very famous ſtory, touching the men of Succoth, Ile relate it as briefly as I can.

Gideon and his three hundred men were faint, yet purſuing after Z…ba Judg. 8. 4, 5.and Zalmunna, Kings of Median, Iſraels enemies: And he ſaid to the men of Succoth, give, I pray you, loaves unto the people that follow mee, for they are faint: Gideon told them alſo, (as is likely) That he would requite their kindneſſe when God had delivered his enemies-up into his hands, whereof Gideon made no queſtion. The Princes of Succoth, living at eaſe, and faring deliciouſly, hearkned not to Gideon, nor regarded how faint his men were: They mock and jeere at Gideon; Yes, ſay they, you will returne us our bread when you have your enemies in your hands; When will that be? That is a doubtfull caſe; wee will not part with our bread upon ſuch an hazard. You thinke your ſelfe as ſure of your enemies, as if you had them in your hands; you ſee not at what diſadvantage you ſtand, wee doe ſee it: Your enemies are Kings, Kings will helpe one the other, They have power, you are weake and faint; You have not ſupply of neceſſaries, and thinke you to overcome two Kings? There is a great peradventure. Wee will ſee the buſineſſe cleared, and the doubt reſolved, then wee ſhall know what is beſt for us to doe; If you have the victory over the Kings, then you ſhall have our bread; If the Kings have victory over you, then they ſhall have our bread. Goe-on now and purſue, faint you may, and fall downe, and ſtarve for us; you get no bread of us; wee will not part with it at a peradventure; You queſtion not the victory; It is a great queſtion to us; Are the heads of Zeba and Zalmunna Verſe 6.in thy hands, that wee ſhould give bread unto thine Army? This ſtory is as ſoone underſtood as read; & as eaſily applied to our neuters now adayes.

Very well; But how prove you, That neuters were ſo grievouſly puniſhed in ancient dayes?

I prove it firſt out of the Romane Chronicle; The body of Metius Suffetius, who ſtood neuter, to ſpy which fide was ſtrongeſt, that thereunto he might turne, was adjudged by a Councell of warre, to have his body tyed unto two teemes of foure horſes, which halled contrary wayes; So his body was drawne aſunder, and plucked into two peeces accordingly.

What have Chriſtians to doe with what the Romans did? It was the firſt and laſt puniſhment that ever the Romanes executed with ſo little reſpect, or none at all, To the Lawes of humanitie, ſayes the Hiſtorian himſelfe.

Well then, let it goe, though it inſtructs us very well, what may lawfully be don to neuters now adayes. But wee muſt not ſo lightly paſſe over what we reade in the ſacred Text, upon which wee were even now, and muſt ſet a marke. Wee reade, how the men of Succoth jeered and upbraided Gideon; Now reade what Gideon replies to them; Therefore when the Lord hath delivered Zeba and Zalmunna into mine hands, then will I teare your fleſh with the thornes of the Wilderneſſe, and with briars. And as he threatned to deale with them, ſo he did deale; He tooke the Elders of the Citie, and thornes of the Wilderneſſe, and briars, and with them he taught the men of Succoth. He taught them! A ſore Teaching! but very exemplary for theſe men in our dayes, They that will not be taught with words, muſt be taught with paine.

Yea, but Gideons teaching is no rule for us ſo to teach; he taught with briars and thornes, wee muſt be more mercifull.

More mercifull! mercy to the wicked is crueltie to the good: pittie to Gods enemies is but a fruit of bitter hatred to His friends. But I will paſſe over that too, yet wee muſt not paſſe over, but obſerve with all obſervation, what the LORD ſayes; Curſe you Meroz, ſaid the Angel of the Lord; Curſe yee bitterly the Inhabitants thereof.

I pray you, what was this Meroz?

Surely, I cannot tell; An obſcure people they were, they had no relation to Iſrael, farther than that they were men, partaking of the ſame common nature, neere adjoyning to Iſrael; and beholding the diſtreſſe; lookers-on, when mightie Adverſaries were before them; Iſrael, Gods people, diſtreſſed behinde them, yet lookers on Iſraels affliction, in the day of their calamitie; beholding it with the eye, but not regarding it.

Was that all?

All! It was enough to bring a curſe, and to make it cleave unto them for ever; Therefore curſe yee Meroz, never ceaſe aIndeſinenter, Jun.calling for a curſe, till the curſe come; In curſing curſe yee him, becauſe they came not out to help the Lord againſt the mightie. The diſtreſſe of a perſon, or a people, is enough to command pitty: If a perſon or people be fallen into the hands The day of Jacobs troubles, is a diſcovering day. When Jacob is fallen into the hands of theeves, (the prince of robbers) hee ſhall know who is his neighbourof theeves: But I will not make an if of the matter; That, which was a parable anciently, is a truth now, & relates to Ireland and England both, Theſe two Nations are fallen into the hands of theeves, God ſo diſpoſing and ſuffering it to be Now woe to the lookers-on, and paſſers by on the other ſide, woe to them. Now is the diſtinguiſhing time, now wee ſhall know our friends, who is our neighbour and our brother; he that ſhewes mercy, he is the neighbour, though the adverſary and enemy ſayes, He is a Samaritan and has a Devill.

By this account now, which you have given of Meroz, and of Iſrael in diſtreſſe, fallen into the hands of Theeves, Zealand and Holland ſhould come-in now to help England.

That they ſhould ſure, ſtronger bonds and engagements are upon them, then was upon Meroz. Stronger, ſaid I? I ſhould have ſaid more: But I forbeare.

What means it then, that they have ſhipped over their Artillery, inſtruments of death, to furniſh the enemy and adverſary?

You muſt lay the blame of that—upon the Devils inſtruments, ungratefull wretches, there and here, and every where, lay that—upon them, and not upon the countrey, or people. The adverſary prevailed there, and thruſt forth a ſhip or two fraighted as wee know; but doubtleſſe the Hollanders doe know what the Engliſh have done for them, to render them a free People: they will not ſend over inſtruments of death therewith to cut Engliſh throats, or to make them ſlaves; they abhor the thoughts of ſuch a requitall for old unrecountable favours from the Engliſh: How much Engliſh noble blood hath been ſhed to maintain their cauſe! How much?

Embaſſadours are now come to mediate a peace, they ſay.

A peace! What, &c. all the world knowes what followes, God is making inquiſitiō for blood: he will require it at the hands of them that ſhed it. And now the Parliament cannot take it ill that they are not treated with about the thing ſome call Peace: The GOD of gods, KING of kings, and LORD of Lords, is not treated with. And yet when he giveth quietneſſe, who can make trouble? And when he hideth his face, who can behold him, whether it be done againſt a nation, or againſt Iob. 34. 29.a man only? To ſhut-up all: Thus we have concluded from unqueſtion'd premiſſes, That though Holland hold their peace, and ſtand-Neuters, as Meroz did, Yet enlargement and deliverance ſhall ariſe to the Eſt. 4. 14.Church of England from another place. It is a comfortable promiſe, Hee ſhall ſend from heaven and ſave me. England ſhall be ſaved, the Church Pſal. 57. 3.there ſhall have a glorious ſalvation, that it ſhall. But yet God and man expects neighbours ſhould ſhew themſelves neighbours. And who knowes whether all the kindneſſe England ſhewed to Holland, was not for ſuch a time as this. But if this move not, ſurely the curſe upon Meroz (well thought on) will move; A curſed generation, curſed from Gods mouth, and commanded to be curſed by all the people of God, Curſe ye Meroz, ſaid the Angel of the Lord, curſe yee bitterly the inhabitants thereof, Iudg. 5. 23.becauſe they came not to the help of the LORD, to the help of the LORD againſt the mighty. So ſhall all thine enemies periſh, O Lord, they ſhall leave their names for a curſe to poſterity: But they that love thy Name, ſhall be as the morning light, which increaſeth more and more till the perfect day. So be it. Amen.

FINIS.

End of the text · Hezekiah Woodward, Archbishops to be Cut Off (1644)

Archbishops to be Cut Off, Dialogue

p. 1A DIALOGVE, ARGVING That Arch-Biſhops, Biſhops, Curates, Neuters; All theſe are to be cut off by the Law of GOD; therefore to be caſt-out by the Law of the Land.

A DIALOGVE, ARGVING That Arch-Biſhops, Biſhops, Curates, Neuters; All theſe are to be cut off by the Law of GOD; therefore to be caſt-out by the Law of the Land.