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The Bloody Tenant Yet more Bloody · Roger Williams

The Bloody Tenant Yet more Bloody, Chapter 71

Exam: of Chap. 71. replying to Chap. 74.

Peace.

COncerning the Papiſts teſtimonie againſt perſecution; Mr Cotton replyes: Firſt, why may not their Teſtimonie be wicked, as well as their Booke, confeſt ſo to be? Secondly, He grants, that Converſion of Soules ought not to be but by Spirituall meanes.

Truth.

It is true, the Authour of the Letter calls their booke wicked, and themſelves the Authours of perſecution, yet their Teſtimonie is in part acknowledged by Mr Cotton to be true, and will further appeare ſo to be upon Examination: But whether Mr Cotton allow of no other Armes, then Spirituall to be uſed about Spirituall converſion, it hath and will be further examined.

Peace.

Whereas the Papiſts alledge (Matth. 10.) that Chriſt Jeſus ſent his Miniſters as ſheepe among Wolves, not as Wolves among ſheepe, to kill, impriſon, &c. Mr Cotton grants this true, yet adds that this hindreth not Excommunication, Tit. 3. nor miraculous Vengeance againſt Spirituall Wolves (Acts 13.) where there is a gift: nor their Prayers againſt ſuch, 2 Tim. 4. 4. nor their ſtirring up of the Civill power againſt them, as Elijah did Ahab and the people againſt the Prophets of Baal, 1 Kings 18. 40.

Truth.

Concerning the two firſt we agree, for the third, theTouching prayers for Vengeance upon Gods Enemies. Prayers of Gods people againſt Gods Enemies, we finde two-fold: Firſt, Generall againſt all; ſecondly, Particular againſt ſome; and that two-fold; Firſt, for Gods Vengeance in Gods time, leaving it to his holy Wiſdome; as Paul prayd againſt Alexander. Secondly, For preſent Vengeance; as the Diſciples deſired in the caſe of Chriſt, Luke 9. And againſt ſuch Prayers the Diſcuſſer did and doth contend.

For the fourth, in Stirring up of the Civill State againſt falſe Stirring up of the Civill State to perſecure.Prophets, I muſt anſwer as before, Let Mr Cotton produce any ſuch Civill State in the World, as that Extraordinarie and miraculous State of Iſrael was, and I yeeld it: otherwiſe, if the paſſage be extraordinarie and typing, why doth Mr Cotton adde fuell to Nebuchadnezzars fierie furnace, which hath been ſo dreadfully hot already, and hath devoured ſo many millions of Gods people?

Peace.

Further out of Matth. 10. Whereas the Papiſts booke ſays, Chriſts Miniſters ſhould be delivered, but ſhould not deliver up, thoſe whom they are ſent unto to convert, unto Councells or Priſons, or to make their Religion Felonie or Treaſon; Mr Cotton anſwers; What is this to Apoſtates, who ſeeke to ſubvert the Faith they have profeſt? What is this to them that ſeeke to ſubvert States, and kill Kings; which Doctrine, in downeright tearmes, he at laſt chargeth upon the Authour of the Letter, and the Diſcuſſer.

Truth.

But how falls an Antichriſtian or Apoſtate more directly under the ſtroake of the Civill Sword, then a Jew or Turke or Pagan? By what rule of God or Chriſt hath a Magiſtrate of this World, Authoritie, ſo to puniſh the one above the other? And where hath Mr Cotton found one Title, either in the Letter or in the Diſcuſſer, which forbids the Magiſtrate to puniſh Felonie or Treaſon, whether it be in practice, or in Doctrine, leading to it? Doth not every Leafe and Line breath the contrary to what Mr Cotton here inſinuateth? The Truth is, as Potiphars wife accuſingThe bloudie Tenent of perſecution is alone the King killing and Stare-killing Doctrine. Joſeph was not cleare her ſelfe, ſo let this charge be well examined, and this will be the Reſult of it; The Papiſts and the Diſcuſſer agree together in aſſerting one Truth in this Chapter, to wit, that Gods Meſſengers ought not to deliver any to Priſons or Councells. But in the Doctrine of killing hereticall Kings or Magiſtrates, who ſees not but ſuch Papiſts as …hould that Doctrine, and Mr Cotton meete in the end? For if the Magiſtrate prove an Apoſtate, Blaſphemer, Idolater, Heretick, Seducer (according to Mr Cottons Doctrine, as well as the Papiſts) ſuch Kings and Magiſtrates ought (as well as thouſands of his Subjects in like caſe) be put to Death.

Peace.

Againe, where the Papiſts booke argued from Matth. 10 that Chriſt bids his Miniſters to ſalute an houſe with peace, he ſends no Purſevant to ranſack and ſpoile it: Mr Cotton anſwers: True, but if Seducers be there, or Rebells or Conſpiratours be there, God hath armed the Magiſtrate, Rom. 13.

Truth.

Mr Cotton (too too like the bloudie perſecutours of Chriſt Jeſus in all Ages) ſtill couples the Seducer and the Rebells together, as the Jewes coupled Chriſt and Barrabbas, though Barrabbas finds more favor then the Son of God, for Chriſt as a ſeducer, a D…ceiver, &c. is commonly executed, & Barrabas releaſed.

'Tis true the Magiſtrates Commiſſion is from God, even in the time of the Goſpel, but Chriſt Jeſus never gave Commiſſion to Magiſtrates to ſend Purſevants to ranſack an houſe, to ſearch for Seducers and Idolaters, who tranſgreſſe onelyonly againſt the Spirituall Kingdome of Chriſt Jeſus, but not againſt Civilitie and the Civill State.

Peace.

This Diſtinction of Evills▪ I remember it pleaſed God to open ſome of the Romane Emperours eyes to ſee, upon the occaſion of his poore ſervants Apologies preſented unto them.

Truth.

You ſeaſonably remember this (Deare Peace) for althoughAmoninus Pius his Edict for the Chriſtians. we finde not Antoninus Pius or Aurelius Antoninus to have been Believers in Chriſt Jeſus, yet they gave forth their Edicts, tha… no Chriſtian ſhould be puniſhed meerely for that he was a Chriſtian, except ſome other crime againſt the Civill State were proved againſt him: And the later of theſe gave in Expreſſe charge, that ſuch as were their Accuſers ſhould be burnt alive.

Peace.

If ſuch an Edict or any farre more moderate ſhould come forth in our Time, againſt the great troublers of all Civill Tranſgreſſion againſt the Spirituall or Civill peace.States, to wit, Informers, Accuſers and Maintainers of the bloudie Doctrine of perſecution: Doubtles thouſands and ten thouſands of Men, yea not a few of the moſt zealous Hunters or perſecutors would eaſily ſubmit to the Truth of the Diſtinction between the crime of a Religion contrary to a State Religion, and a crime againſt the Civill State thereof.

But to the Papiſts againe, they (laſtly) alledged, John 10. that the true Shepheard comes not to kill the ſheepe, &c. Upon this Maſter Cotton queries. But what if the Wolfe, the Thiefe come, ſhall the Shepheard uſe Spirituall Cenſures, when they are not capeable of ſuch ſtroakes, or ſhall he not ſeeke helpe from the Magiſtrate, who is to ſee Gods people live a quiet and peaceable Life in all Godlines and Honeſtie, 1 Tim. 2.?

Truth.

I anſwer, and cry out, how long, how long Lord, Perſecutours of Chriſts Sheepe pretend to ſave them and kill none but Wolves.before thou avenge the bloud of thy holy ones, againſt them that dwell on the Earth, both bloudie Papiſts and bloudie Proteſtants? Out of their owne Mouthes ſhall Papiſts and Proteſtants be condemned, for ſlaughtering Chriſt Jeſus (the Shepheard) in his poore Sheepe and Servants, and eſpecially the bloudie Papiſt, for alledging that Scripture, for the Popes bloudie Butcherie, [Ariſe Peter, kill and Eate:] yet all pretending to ſave the ſheepe, and onelyonly to reſiſt Wolves, Thieves, &c.

But more punctually Maſter Cotton well knowes, that in theAntichriſtian Miniſters great Thieves. Myſterie of Antichriſtianiſme, many thouſand Antichriſtian Wolves pretend ſtrongly to be the harmeles ſheepe of Chriſt Jeſus, yea his tender and carefull Shepheards, yet are but Antichriſtian Thieves and Robbers, who cannot dig and to beg are aſhamed, and therefore finde it beſt to ſteale and rob…, whole Pariſhes and Provinces, whole Nations, &c. for Livings, for Benefices, for Biſhopricks, Cardinalſhips, Popedomes, &c.

Peace.

What kinde of Sheepe and Shepheards (Chriſt JeſusHireling Miniſters. will finde out ſhortly) are all thoſe Hirelings, Papiſts or Proteſtant, who no longer peny, no longer paternoſter, no longer pay, no longer pray, no… preach, no… faſt, nor convert, &c.

Truth.

Theſe Babylonian Rivers ſhall at laſt be ſtopt: God and Man ſhall agree to ſtop them: The truth of that holy Myſterie of that great Exchange ſhall be opened, Revel. 10. And Peoples eyes ſhall be opened to ſee, how theſe myſticall Marchants of the Earth (pretending to be the great Sellers of Truth) have been the greateſt Deceivers, and Cheators, the greateſt Thieves and Robbers in the World.

Peace.

But Mr Cotton will ſay, Gods people would live at peace in Godlineſſe and Honeſtie, 1 Tim. 2. 1. as Paul profeſſeth, Acts 25. 8.

Truth.

I remember when old Chaucer puts this Querie toFryars in Chancers time and the Cleargie in our time conſidered. the foure chiefe ſorts of Fryers in his Time [which of the foure ſorts is the beſt] he finds every ſort applauding it ſelfe, and concluding the other three ſorts of Fryers to be Liars: whence in Concluſion he finds them all guilty of Lying (in a round) before God, for all profeſt themſelves to be the only godly men.

I may now ask, who among all the ſorts of Churches and Miniſters applaud not themſelves (like the Fryars in Chaucers dayes) to be Chriſts onelyonly Churches, Chriſts Miniſters, &c. And who among the ſeverall ſorts of ſuch as are Gods people indeed, believe not their own Godlines (or worſhipping of God) to be onelyonly right and Chriſtian?

Peace.

What now if each ſort ſhould enjoy Magiſtrates of their owne profeſſion and Way?

Truth.

The bloudie Tenent will unavoydably ſet them altogether by the Eares, to try out by the longeſt Sword, and ſtrongeſt Arme, which Godlines muſt live in peace and quietnes: But as for that Scripture, 1 Tim. 2. I have (as I believe) fully debated it, in the Examination of the Modell, and made it evident how farre from all Godlines and Honeſtie that holy Scripture is perverted.

Peace.

Mr Cotton in the next paſſage being charged with partiall dealing, and a double waight and meaſure, one for himſelfe and another for others; Mr Cotton in effect anſwereth, that it is a true and juſt Complaint againſt perſecution and perſecutours, but not againſt them, for they are Righteous and not Apoſtates, Seducers, Hereticks, Idolaters, Blaſphemers, &c.

Peace.

What doth Maſter Cotton anſwer, but what all religions, ſects▪ and ſeverall ſorts of worſhippers in the world▪ all religious Prieſts and Church-men plead, We are Righteous?

Peace.

Yea, the very Turkes and Mahumetans challenge toThe Turkes themſelves will be Muſlemanni, or right beleevers. The horrible partialite of perſecutors. themſelves true Faith in God, yea, whether Jews, Antichriſtians or Chriſtians, they all call themſelves Muſelmanni that is the right beleevers.

Truth.

It is not ſo great wonder then if the popiſh and proteſtant ſects, and miniſters of worſhip cry out (as men uſe to doe in ſuits of Law and pretences to the Crowne) We are righteous, my title is good, and the beſt. We are holy, we are Orthodox and godly: You muſt ſpare us, beleeve us, honour us, feed us, protect and defend us in peace and quietneſſe. Others are Hereticks, Apoſtates, Seducers, Idolators, Blaſphemers, ſtarve them, impriſon them, baniſh them, yea hang them, burne them with fire and ſword purſue them.

Peace.

When it was urged (by way of prevention) that perſons truly profeſſing Chriſt Jeſus be his ſheep, and they cannot perſecute;

Firſt, Becauſe it is againſt the nature of Sheep to hunt, no not the Wolves that have hunted themſelves, &c. Maſter Cotton anſwers, Firſt if the ſimilitude be ſo ſtretched, then if a Magiſtrate be a ſheep, he ought not to puniſh, robbers, adulterers, murtherers, &c.

2 Paul was a ſheep, and yet he ſtrook Elimas with blindneſſe, Acts 13.

3 (Saith he) when the Wolfe runs upon the ſheep, it is not againſt the nature of the true ſheep to run to the true ſheepherd, and is it againſt the nature of the true Sheepherd to ſend forth his Dogs, to worrie ſuch a VVolfe, without incurring the reproach of a perſecutour.

Truth.

To the firſt, the finger of true Diſtinction will eaſily untie theſe ſeeming knots.Miſticall ſheep.

Sheep therefore are two-fold, naturall and miſticall.

Againe, miſticall are two-fold, Firſt, Civill, and ſo all Magiſtrates have rightly been called Sheepherds and the people ſheep.

2 Spirituall, and ſo Chriſt Jeſus gave paſtors, that is Sheepheards and Teachers, and all Believers and followers of Jeſus are ſheep▪

On the contrary there are naturall and miſticall wolves: of miſticall ſome oppoſe the ſpirituall, and ſome the Civill State, and ſome both, who muſt be reſiſted by the proper ſheepheads, and proper weapons in each kind, and to confound theſe is to deceive and to be deceived.

Peace.

Upon the ground of this Diſtinction we may eaſily perceive, that a Shepheard in Civil ſtate, of what Religion ſoever he be, as a Shepheard of the people he ought to defend them by force of Civill arms, from all oppreſſions of body, goods, chaſtily, name, &c. This doth the Magiſtrate as a Shepheard of the Civil ſtate and people, conſidered in a Civil reſpect and capacity, and this ought all the Magiſtrates in the world to doe, whether they be ſheep or no themſelves in another reſpect, that is in a ſpirituall and Chriſtian.

Truth.

Yea, and if a Magiſtrate be a ſheep or a true Chriſtian, who ſeeth not that he puniſheth not the robber, adulterer, murtherer as a ſpirituall ſhepheard with ſpirituall weapons, but as a Civil Shepheard with a C…vill ſtaſſe, ſword, &c?

Tis true, Paul was a ſheep, that is, a ſpirituall ſheep; he alſoPaul his ſtriking Elimas blind conſidered. was a ſpirituall Shepheard, and Elimas was a wolfe oppoſing ſpiritually, and Paul in his oppoſition ſtrook him blind. Striking is two-fold, ſpirituall and corporall: And all the ſheep of Chriſt as ſpirituall, are alſo Lyons and armed men, and ſo doe ſtrike ſpiritually.

Peace.

It will be ſaid that Paul ſtrook both ſpiritually and corporally.

Truth.

Corporal ſtroaks may be conſidered either ordinary or mediate, by force of armes, fire and ſword, &c. or extraordinary and immediate, ſuch as it pleaſed God to uſe himſelfe, and his holy Prophets and Apoſtles by his power: Now 'tis true, in this ſecond way, (even in ſpirituall caſes) Gods ſheep which have been inducd with power above nature, that is of miracles, have plagued Egypt, have burnt up Captaines and their Fifties, yea pluckt up Nations and Kingdomes as Jeremie: Peter kild Ananias and his wife, Paul ſtrook Elimas blind, and the two witneſſes conſume their Enemies with fire out of their mouths.Of the power of miracles.

If either of theſe ſhould doe this ordinarily, that is, by ordinary means (for inſtance, if Peter had killed Ananias with a Sword, or Paul beat out Elimas his eyes with a Fiſt or ſtone) they ought to have been puniſhed by the Civil ſtate, as oppreſſors of the people, and tranſgreſſors againſt Civill peace, &c. But performing theſe executions, by a ſpirituall, divine and miraculous power, above humane reach: all that heard were to acknowledge, and feare and tremble at the holy Spirits might: of this gift of miracles, I ſay as the Lord Jeſus ſpake touching the gift of Continency, he that can receive it, let him receive it.

Peace.

By what hath been ſaid, I ſee Maſter Cottons laſt anſwer will be more eaſily ſatisfied: when the VVolfe runneth ravenouſly (ſaith he) upon the ſheep, is it againſt the nature of the true ſheep to run to their Shepheards? and it is not againſt the nature of the true Sheepherd to ſend forth his Doggs to worrie ſuch a VVolfe, &c?

Truth.

Maſter Cotton (doubtleſſe) here intends miſticall ſheep, and Shepheards, and VVolves and Doggs, and preſſeth the ſimilitude from the naturall ſheep in Civill reſpect, he cannot here mean (for that is not the Queſtion) whether Wolviſh-men oppreſſing the Civill ſtate are to be reſiſted and ſuppreſſed by civill weapons, &c.

Concerning Spiritual ſheep then: the firſt queſtion is: If theSpirituall ſheep and wolves conſidered. wolfe runs ravenouſly upon the Sheep, is it againſt the nature of the true Sheep to run to their Shepheard? I anſwer, a ſpiritual Wolfe (a falſe Teacher, &c.) may be ſaid to run ravenouſly upon a ſpirituall ſheep, by ſpiritual aſſault of Argument, Diſpute, Reproach, &c. The ſame man as a civil wolfe (for ſo we muſt ſpeake to ſpeake properly) may alſo run upon a ſheep of Chriſt by Civill Armes, that is in a Civil reſpect, upon Body and Go…, &c,

If now the Wolfe ravin the firſt way, the ſh…ep of Chriſt may and ought to run, to the Lord Jeſus (the great Mr. Shepheard) and to ſuch under and in inferiour Shepheards as he hath appointed (if he can attain to them.)

If the ſecond way, the ſheep (beſide running to Chriſt Jeſus by prayer, and to his Ordinances and Officers for advice and comfort) may run to the Civil Magiſtrate (appealing to Caeſar, &c.) againſt ſuch uncivill violence and oppreſſion.

Peace.

Mine heart joyfully acknowledgeth the Light mine eye ſeeth, in that true and neceſſary diſtinction: Now to the Second Queſtion, is it againſt the nature of the true Shepheard (ſaith Mr. Cotton) to ſend forth his Doggs to worrie ſuch a wolfe, &c.

Truth.

Mr Cotton here diſcourſing of Chriſts ſheepe, and Chriſts Shepheards, Reaſon would perſwade, that the Shepheards or Paſtours here intended ſhould be the Shepheards or Paſtours appointed by Chriſt Jeſus, Epheſ. 4.

Peace.

If ſo he ſhould intend, it well ſuits with the ſpirit of ſome proud and ſcornfull (pretended) Shepheards of Chriſt Jeſus in the World, who have uſed to call their Clarkes, Sumners, Proctors, and Purſevants, their hunting Dogs, &c.

Truth.

But ſuch Dogs, (as yet) the Independent Paſtours or Shepheards, keepe not.

Peace.

Yea but the Pope (to ſpeake in Mr Cottons phraſe,The Pope and, all proud Popiſh Prieſts and Cleargie uſe the Civill Powers but as Dogs. yet with all humble reſpect to Civill Authoritie, the bleſſed Ordinance of God and Man) I ſay the Pope keeps ſuch Dogs good ſtore, yea Dogs of all ſorts, not onelyonly of thoſe leſſer kindes, but whom he uſeth as his Dogs, the Emperours, Kings, and Magiſtrates of the World, whom he teacheth and forceth to crouch, to lie downe, to creepe, and kiſſe his foote, and from thence at his beck to flie upon ſuch greedie Wolves, as the Waldenſes, Wickleviſts, Huſſites, Hugonites, Lutherans, Calviniſts, Proteſtants, Puritans, Sectaries, &c. to impriſon, to whip, to baniſh, to hang, to head, to burne, to blow up ſuch vile Hereticks, Apoſtates, Seducers, Blaſphemers, &c.

But I forget, it will be ſaid, the Proteſtants Grounds and practices differ from the Popes as far as Light from Darknes, and how ever the Pope uſeth the ſecular power and Magiſtrates thereof, but as Dogs and Hangmen, yet the Reformed Churches teach and practice better.

Truth.

'Tis true (ſweet Peace) the Proteſtants profeſſe greaterThe Proteſtant Cleargie their dealing with Magiſtrates. honour and ſubjection to the Civill Magiſtrate: But let plaine Engliſh be ſpoken and it will be found that the Proteſtant cleargie (as they will be calld) ride the backs and necks of Civill Magiſtrates, as fully and as heavily (though not ſo pompouſly) as ever the great Whore ſat the backs of Popiſh Princes.

Peace.

The Proteſtant Cleargie hath yeelded up the temporall ſword into the hand of the temporall State, Kings, Governours, &c. They proclaime the Magiſtrates, Head of the Church, Defenders of their Faith, the Supreame Judges in all cauſes as well Eccleſiaſticall as Civill.

Truth.

'Tis true, they make the Magiſtrate Head of the Church, but yet of what Church they pleaſe to make and faſhion.

They make him Defendour of the Faith, but of what Faith, what Doctrine, what Diſcipline, what Members they pleaſe to admit and account of: And this under the penaltie of being accounted either hereticall (and ſo Magiſtrates worthy themſelves to be put to Death) or ignorant, and ſo not fit to act (as Mr Cotton ſayth) but muſt ſuſpend their power, untill they ſubmit to the Cleargies pretended Light, and ſo be learnd to ſee and read with the Cleargies Spectacles.

Peace.

To this purpoſe (indeed) agrees the next paſſage, wherein Mr Cotton affirmeth, that although all the Magiſtrates A ſuſpending or hanging up of Magiſtratesin the World, ought to puniſh Blaſphemers, Idolaters, Seducers, yet this muſt they not doe while their Conſciences are blinde and ignorant of the Truth, and yet they ceaſe not to be Magiſtrates (ſayth he) although they cannot performe all the Duties of Magiſtrates.

Truth.

Concerning this ſtated Dutie of all Magiſtrates, and yet ſuſpending of all ignorant Magiſtrates from acting, according to this their Dutie I have ſpoken to before and often, I now add, according to Mr Cottons ſimilitude, if the Errours of others be as motes in compariſon of the beames of this ignorance and blindneſſe in Magiſtrates, which he calleth Beames, it will be found that he renders thouſands of the Magiſtrates of the World as uncapable to be true Magiſtrates, as an heape of Timber to be an Houſe, which wants the beames and principalls.

Peace.

The ſumme of the Difference in the laſt paſſage is not great, nor any in words, for ſayth Mr Cottons Concluſion, If the Difference be onelyonly in the way and manner of the Adminiſtration of Chriſt, and the Difference be held forth in a peaceable and Chriſtian way, God forbid a Staffe ſhould be ſhaken againſt ſuch, or a Sword unſheathed.

Truth.

Alas, where hath lien the great Difference between the Prelates and Presbyterians, the Presbyterians and Independants, but about the way and Adminiſtration of Chriſts Kingdome (for as for matter of Doctrine according to the 39 Articles The great ſpirituall differences of theſe late Times.of the Church of England, they have little differd)? Yea wherein for matter of Doctrine, of Faith, Repentance and Holineſſe) have the Churches which make whole ſeperation, or ſuch as goe further to a new Baptiſme, wherein have they differd from the former? and yet we know what Lawes have been and are extant in Old and New England againſt them, and what practices have been felt, and may juſtly be expected both from the Mother and the Daughter, if a jealous God and heavenly Father (for our unthankfullneſſe) ſhould once be pleaſed to finiſh this late and wonderfull calme and moderation: Which yet mayOf reſt from perſecution. juſtly be feard to prove, (as Sea-men uſe to obſerve) but a Winters calme, and they ray, a Winters calme (for then ſtormes are breeding) is as bad as a Summers ſtorme.