Answer to the Narration of the Practices of the Churches in New England, Part 5
Anſwer to CHAP. I.
THe ſumme of Art. 1. and its Margent is That the Churches of New-England, being the ſame in Diſcipline with Plymouth, and Plymouth having their Principles from Mr. Robinſon it is to be inquired whether we be not all of the way of the Separatiſts.
Anſwer. 1. As in our judgements we much differ from them, ſo in ſeveral particulars of moment, we practiſe what the Separatiſts (properly ſo called) will not doe, as hearing, preaching, praying in the Aſſemblies in England, and alſo in private commmunion with them, &c.
2. Though we ſhould practiſe ſome of the ſame things they doe in Diſcipline, doth that make the way evill, ſimply becauſe they doe it? Firſt, he muſt prove that the Separatiſts practiſe nothing right at all, or elſe that we muſt not, becauſe they doe it.
3. Himſelfe hath fully anſwered for us, Preface pag. 3. who ſaith to this effect. Though in Diſcipline men generally act like others,) he meanes the Separatiſt.) yet if in their opinion of theſe practiſes, and in the ground… of them, they not only differ, but ſtiffly …ppſo… them, the just repute of ſuch perſons is to be preſerved. We need looke no further to cleare us from cenſure, then to W. R. himſelfe. For it's well know ne we differ from them in our opinions and grounds of our practiſe, and how we hate oppoſed rigid Separatiſts in that very point, let our own writings witneſſe; Diſcourſe of Covenant. 36. 37. 38. 52.
Here note (once for all) he ſaith, that the churches in New-England are of one and the ſame way in Diſcipline without any materiall difference: And this he would have remembred all along his booke. I hope he will not ſtart from this afterwards, I pray him to mind it.
He ſaith Art 2. We have no Platformes agreed upon amongſt us.
1. We hold it not unlawfull to have a Platforme of Church Government, i. e. a confeſſion of the Diſcipline of Chriſt, Anſ. collected out of Scripture, and ſet down in writing.
2. Yet we ſee no Grounds to impoſe ſuch a Platforme upon Churches, but leave them to their libertie therein, becauſe (we know not that) Chriſt ever enjoyned it, and therefore we deſire W. R. not to ſtumble at our Churches, much leſſe, take upon him, ſo maſterly, to controll us becauſe we have it not.
To the Marginalls of Art. 2.
He wonders how we ſo ſoone fell into ſuch an exact forme of Diſcipline Objection 1 without a Platforme.
We anſwer him, (yea he tells us himſelfe, Anſw. ) we had it from that patterne of wholſome words written in the Scriptures, Gods good ſpirit opening our eyes to ſee it: And ſome others alſo, (laying aſide prejudice, and humbly ſetting themſelves to waite on God for light) may come to ſee an exacter forme of Diſcipline then (it may be) hither to they have done.
But, why doe no other Churches in the world (ſaith he) beſides your Objection 2 ſelves ſee this way, but all oppoſe it?
Bleſſed be God, it is not ſo, many thouſands doe ſee and follow it, Anſw. ſo far are they from oppoſing it. And even England is comming neerer it by many ſteps of late then before; He that hath brought them from Epiſcopacy, Impoſed Formes, and Popiſh Ceremonies &c. can carry them on further.
2. Moſt of ſuch, as doe not walke in, but oppoſe our way, are they that either have not heard our grounds, or elſe have not impartially weighed them, and hence have received a prejudice againſt our practiſe.
3. To reveale light being a free act of the father of light, he may chooſe what truths he will manifeſt, and when, and to whom, and in what meaſure he will diſpence them, as Chriſt ſaith Mat. 25.11. Father I thanke thee thou haſt revealed theſe things,—ſo it is Father, becauſe thy good will is ſo.
Objection 3 But we tie our ſelves to a preſident, why not rather to a platforme?
Anſw. 1. Let him conſider well, if this be not a reproach injuriouſly caſt upon us, whoſe indeavour is, and hath beene (as in the ſight of God) not to follow mens, or Churches preſident further then wee ſee them following Chriſt: for though at firſt a preſident may be looked at, as a directorie into the right way, yet the practiſe may be grounded on the truth it ſelfe diſcerned, and not upon the preſident, according to Iohn 4.42. They were firſt led to Chriſt by the woman, yet after beleeved on him for his owne ſake, and the truth they diſcerned to be in him.Ob.
All our Churches (ſaith he) in New-England, & their members, doe clearely ſee the ſhining light of Diſcipline, by a cleare evidence of the way revealed to them, and yet do… ti… themſelves to a preſident?
Anſ. Is not here a contradiction? for, if we all have full cleare ſhining light,☞ then wee neede no ſpectacles of a preſident; or if wee tie our ſelves to a preſident, it's becauſe wee conceive wee have not full and cleare light of our owne.
Objection 4 But we have had diviſions amongſt us.
Anſ. 1. Thoſe diviſions were not cauſed by our Church Diſcipline, but by certaine vile opinions brought to us from England, (which I feare) is your own caſe this day, and yet no blame (you will ſay.)
2. Through rich mercy, they are long ſince ſubdued by the light and power of his truth: O that you could ſay the ſame of all the looſe opinions here, (if the will of God were ſo) for which wee ſigh daily to heaven on your behalfe, and dare not reproach you with it.
3. When theſe diviſions did FALL, it was whiles our diſcipline STOOD, which ſhewes that our Diſcipline bred them not, but deſtroyed them rather.
Objection 5 To the Margent on Article 3. If an impoſed platforme by imperious power be unlawfull (in others) why doe wee ſo rigorrouſly preſſe others to our preſident?
Anſw. To impoſe a thing (and that by an imperious power) which may poſſibly be erroneous in it ſelf, or without evidence to others conſciences, on whom it is preſſed cannot bee lawfull: but for us to make the perfect word our patterne, then carefully informe others therein, and after i…formation leade them by it, is certainly much differing from the other, and farre from a ſlaviſh invitation by our ſelves, or rig… preſſing of a preſident upon others, both which here he imputes very unjuſtly to us. As God hath kept us hitherto from ſuch imperious rigour, ſo I hope, by his grace he will ever doe.
But wee forbeare giving of our priviledges to ſuch as conform not to our Objection 6 way.
1. If it were our way and not Chriſts, Anſ. it were our great ſinne and (in part) the ſame with the Prelates of late; but to forbeare giving priviledges to ſuch as ſubmit not to the rules of participation, is no rigou…, but ſuch a thing as Chriſt himſelfe would doe if in our places.
2. It is no more then all other ſocieties in the world doe, who firſt require conformity before they permit to any the injoyment of their liberties.
3. Doe wee any more herein, then the Reverend Aſſembly themſelves at this day, who would not willingly admit unto Church-imployments and priviledges, any of a contrary judgement in point of Diſcipline? And yet, (I hope) you will not ſay, that either theſe or thoſe exerciſe rigour.
But wee will not own ſuch as ſiſter Churches that differ from us (though Objection 7 but in ſome things) in Church Diſcipline.
Doe not the Churches of England differ from us not onelyonly in ſome things, but in many (as W. R. Anſ. ☜himſelfe ſaith) and yet wee owne them as ſiſter Churches, witneſſe his owne quoted Authors, Diſcourſe of Covenant, p. 36. at large. Mr. Cottons printed letter. All which affirme in effect, and ſome in words, that we bleſſe the wombes that bare us, and the paps that gave us ſuck: We intreate W. R. (in the ſpirit of meekeneſſe) to cleare himſelf from a ſlaunder in ſuch a generall accuſation of his brethren.
Yet we more rigidly impoſe our patterne then any Churches ever did. Objection 8
How great an aſperſion this is, I leave others to judge, Anſw. and the Lord himſelfe to convince him of: Why hath, there ever beene ſo much as any attempt amongſt us, to ſuſpend, excommunicate,☜ deprive, baniſh, impriſon any for diſſenting from us in matters of diſcipline, as of late in England, for non-conformity? Or to raiſe a bloody war for Biſhops & a Service booke, as againſt our Brethren in Scotland? or to ſlander, falſifie Authors, render many godly Churches odious to the world, as W. R. himſelfe hath done in this booke (meerely) for difference from him in point of Church Government? We have indeed, Civilly & Eccleſiaſtically, cenſured divers there amongſt us, but it was for obſtinacy in weighty points in Religion, ſedition in the ſtate, ſcandalous practiſes, as alſo manifeſt contempt of the Churches of Chriſt there, but not any for inconformity in Church Diſcipline.