Answer to the Narration of the Practices of the Churches in New England, Part 18
Anſwer to CHAP. XIIII.
TO Marg. on the Title, Some (ſaith he) grow ſhie of the word [independent] ſome utterly renounce it, yet moſt owne it. Anſwer.
If the word bee rightly taken, (as in Anſwer to 32. q. 46. it's expounded,) for one Church that is not under the power of another, or in ſubjection to a Presbyterie, but as having received power from Chriſt to governe her ſelfe according to his lawes. Then all accord to it. But if the word [Independent] bee abuſively taken, (as it is often with the vulgar) for ſuch a Society as are neither ſubject to Magiſtracy, nor regard the counſel of other Churches, but are a conceipted and ſelfe-ſufficient people, that ſtand onelyonly on their owne leggs. Then wee have cauſe to be ſhie of a word, that may render us odious without cauſe.
To Marg. of 1 Art. That wee have ſtore of imperative Churches who may command, yea compell both members and Miniſters to act.
Anſ. Another ſlaunder, without ground or proofe, or truth, which I leave here upon record. God, our conſciences, and our Brethren bearing us witneſſe, how tender our Churches are, but to perſwade men to act without light, much more to command or compell; both which very words, (though the thing required were lawfull) are odious in the Churches of Chriſt; moſt fitly becomming the Synagogues of Antichriſt. Hath hee a lycenſe to ſpeake any thing?
To Art. 2. We hold our Church power abſolute and imperiall.
Anſw. All we uſe to ſpeake of our Church-power, is that it is miniſteriall, which is farre from [abſolute and imperiall] (words fitter for Emperours of this world then the Churches of the Saints.) I charge it on his conſcience (as in the ſight of God) either to make this appeare, or elſe vindicate us (as becomes an honeſt Chriſtian to doe.
And for his two printed Authors cited (for we cannot come at his private letters) if there be any one word, or ſhew of ground from them to maintaine his ſpeech: Let me beare the ſhame of it, for I here avouch the contrary, under my hand.
To Art. 3. and Marg. That we deny all repreſentation of Churches abſent, and all authoritative deputation of Meſſengers to act for them.
…nſw.1. The Reader may well ſee it is his own ſaying not ours, for he brings no proofe but from Barrow and Johnſon, who cannot well give in their teſtimony for our Church waies in New-England, becauſe they never came there, yea were in their graves (both or one) long before ever wee had a beeing in New-England.
2. There is no truth in it, for we hold a Church may delegate ſome men, and ſend them forth in their names and ſtead, with authority to act for them in this or that particular buſineſſe of truſt as Act. 15.2. And yet he hath boldly now twiſe or thriſe affirmed the ſame thing of us, and brings no proofe at all for it; and it is anſwered before cap. 2. Art. 3.
Marg. Yet ſome tells us, (ſaith he) that Mr. P. and Mr. W. were ſent hither by the Churches to negotiate for them, &c.
Anſw. 1. Some tell us? Sir, you are a man of judgement and gravity, able to inſtruct others; You know you may not blemiſh your brethren, and ſl…nder Churches upon ſuch poore and weake grounds, as [it is reported, I am informed, ſome tell us.] And yet how oft in your booke, have you uſed this courſe of dealing towards your bretbren and their Churches? (Some tell us) indeede, is warrant enough for people that have no other buſineſſe, to make three farthing bookes of and thereby fill the world with tales: but oh, farre be it from any Reverend brother to blot his paper ſo unwarrantably.
2. Though your ground of this report be weake, yet (it ſeemes) your credence is ſtrong, for you make inferences from theſe premiſes againſt us. And as your ground is bad, ſo your end in relating of it is as bad, i. e. to caſt a blot upon our Churches, as if their practiſes did croſſe their principles.
3. What will you ſay now W. R. if your informations prove falſe, as indeede they doe; for neither did their owne Churches, nor all the Churches ſend Mr. P. and Mr. W. but the whole ſtate of New-England (or Generall Court) with one conſent upon ſome ſpeciall imployments which cannot yet be all finiſhed.
Now I have told you the truth, let me give you a few Animadverſions. 1 Beſtow to beleeve ought againſt your brethren hereafter. 2 Slower to report it to others. 3 But never print it, without manifeſt grounds and a good call. 4 If you have done otherwiſe, be ſwift to recall it.
To Marg. of Art. 4. wherein he diſputes againſt us about our non-communion, or withdrawing our ſelves from other Churches in caſe of obſtinacy; by two arguments.
1. Becauſe non-communion is in ſubſtance the very ſame with Synodicall excommunications, Object. 1 and by it (he ſaith) a man is caſt out of the Church, and given up to Satan as well as by excommunication.
If it be ſo, W. R. 1 Why have you ſaid ſo oft (in oppoſition to our way) that our Churches have no power over one another; Anſ. when as our Churches have a power to withdraw by non-communion; and that withdrawing (ſay you) is as much as your Synodicall excommunication? 2 Why do you ſo ſleight our Churches counſells & admonitions to other churches, as not being [authoritative.] Whereas, if they be not obeyed (it ſeemes) they can paſſe as ſore a cenſure as all your Synodicall Authority? For you can doe no more (by it) then excommunicate, and ſo farre (you ſay) we can proceede.
3. Why then doe you call us, abuſively, [Independants?] for (by your ſaying) it ſtands us in hand [to depend] as much upon other Churches, for counſell and admonition, as you on a Presbyterie or Synod, or they will give us up to Satan, as well as a Synod.
4. Why then doe not you accord with us in this point of Non-communion; (ſeeing in it your ſelves and we can comfortably cloſe) rather then ſtrive with your brethren for Synodicall excommunication, to which their judgements cannot yeeld▪ ſeeing that is the ſame in effect with this? This being attended to will end a great part of the difference? Obj.
But whiles we oppoſe Synodicall excommunication, we eſtabliſh it (ſaith he) by ſtanding for non-communion it being the ſame in effect with the other. ibid.
Though W. R. thinkes they are both one, I cannot. For that is poſitive, Anſ. this only negative: That a ſentence paſſed, This not ſo: That a cutting off from Churchdom (at leaſt for preſent) & a giving up to Satan, &c. This only a ceſſatiō of conferring Church priviledges, &c. By the one the Churches withdraw, and call in that only (which once they gave (which is the right hand of fellowſhip) by the other the Synod or Claſſis take away that which they never gave, or had power to beſtow (which is the excommunicates memberſhip in their own Church) So that when we ſtand for the one (as having no rule to carry us further,) we doe not eſtabliſh the other: This is his firſt argument againſt us about non-communion.
The ſecond, that it is more cruell, and more dangerous then Synodall excommunication.
Anſ. Me thinks this ſeemes ſtrange, ſeeing it is a lighter, and leſſer puniſhment then the other: by Non-communion, A man is only let go into the world where Satans walkes are, by Synods excom. hee is given up and caſt to Satan to terrifie and vexe him.
But his arguments for the cruelty and danger of Non-communion are theſe foure Reaſons.
1. Becauſe by this, whole Churches (ſaith he) may come to be caſt out Anſ. So they may as well by a Synod excommunication, for if a Synod hath power to caſt out one member of other Churches, then) by the ſame reaſon) 2. 6. 10. and ſo a whole Church as well, and Churches too, for where will you ſtop? 2. By this, (ſaith he) the Church deſerted is left to it ſelfe in their error. Anſ. Looke what meanes publique or private a Synod may uſe for any man or Churches regaining, the very ſame meanes (to the higheſt extent) may the other Churches uſe likewiſe. 3 This cauſeth endles rents. Anſ. Shew in any point wherein, or why more then the other. 4 This (ſaith he) hinders not the infection of others, but that by cutting off the rotten members the reſt are kept ſound. Anſw. Doe not this croſſe what he ſaid before? that by non-communion a man is caſt out and delivered up to Satan? yet here hee denies it.Ob.
Popular Governement is one cauſe of Schiſmes in New-England, and quotes Mr. Parkers letter. Anſw. Bleſſed be God, that under that Governement of ours (wch you call or rather miſcall Popular) the very neck of Schiſms, and vile opinions, (brought to us from hence) was broken; When here amongſt you where there is not ſuch a Governement, they walke bolt upright amongſt you and crowe aloud. You ſhall doe better to lay aſide this objection till a Presbyterian Government have healed theſe ſore breaches in theſe Churches here.