Answer to the Narration of the Practices of the Churches in New England, Part 10
Anſwer to CHAP. VI.
HE reports (to recite ſuch things onelyonly as moſt neede Anſwer, and let the reſt paſſe) Art. 1. 2. That we hold, that Chriſt hath inveſted with all power any that are in Church-fellowſhip, that though they be all illiterate, yet they may make & examine all their Officers, & unmake & depoſe them when they ſee cauſe ſo to doe, and preach expound and apply the word with all Authority, yea and doe it without any ref…rence at all to their Officers (as Officers) when they have them.
…nſw.If I did delight in retorting, I could ſay of theſe words, as hee of Holland Miniſters Apologie, They are a meere Gull, for almoſt ſo many words ſo many miſtakes. The Narratour ſhould have done well firſt to have proved all the Churches and Miniſters in New-England men out of their wits, and voide of common ſenſe, and then hee might more eaſily have made the world beleeve they hold and practiſe ſuch a congeries of abſurdities and impoſsibilities; For elſe many of them there being well known to bee learned, godly, and ſober men, no wiſe men will beleeve him that they can hold, that
1. Illiterate men can examine Paſtors fitneſſe.
2. Depoſe them at pleaſure.
3. Preach, expound, and apply the word with all authority.
4. And that without any reference to their Officers at all.
5. And (which is m…ſt ſtrange) that Chriſt himſelfe hath inveſted theſe illiterate ones with all power to doe all theſe things.
For 1. It is a received practiſe amongſt us, that when any combine into a Church, there is one at leaſt of them indued with able parts of humane and divine learning, that either hath been a Miniſter in our native countrey, or is fit to be one amongſt them, who uſually and frequently preacheth to them after they are united. So that al of them are not men illiterate,☜ and W. R. himſelfe knowes this to be true, for the Anſwer to the 32. queſt. 42. (which is very page hee here quotes) directly ſaith this in ſo many words:
2. That thoſe illiterate men do examine their Miniſters abilities, and that we hold they ought; is another great miſtake, for ſo wee ſhould put men upon a worke beyond their reach, which were idle; whereas the truth is, that (if the ſuffici…ncy of ſuch men as they intend to call into office bee not well knowne to them) they uſe to call in the helpe and aſsiſtance of Elders in other Churches to ſurveigh their abilities, and to informe them therein, that thereby (as well as by their owne experience of them and diſcerning of their gifts) they may be able to give in their ſuffrage for election when the time comes.
3. For their unmaking and depoſing them againe when they ſee cauſe; Wee hold and profeſſe it a thing moſt injurious to Jeſus Chriſt himſelfe in heaven & to his Miniſters on earth, and ſuch a thing, as (not only Chriſt will ſummon Churches at the great day to anſwer unto, but) our Churches there will alſo expect ſatisfaction from them for it, if they ſhould thus depoſe Miniſters (as he ſaith) when they ſee cauſe, unleſſe Chriſt himſelfe ſhall ſee good cauſe to allow their fact to be done according to the rules of his owne word. Wee are ſo farre from holding this, that wee proteſt againſt ſuch practiſes.
And to ſhew how wary wee are in this point, no Church dares truſt her owne judgement: but our manner is, as his quoted Authour ſpeakes. Anſwer to 34. q. of p. 41. Our practiſe is in removall of Miniſters to have counſell and aſſiſtance from ſiſter Churches.
4. Whereas he ſaith alſo, That we hold that men illiterate ſhould preach with all authority (which is a worke and a taske for the ableſt Miniſters to performe) is as farre from us, as any of the other. For though wee deny not, but in ſome caſe, ſome able judicious experienced Chriſtians, may humbly & ſoberly, when neceſsity requires, as in the want of Miniſters & being invited thereunto, diſpence now and then a word of exhortation to their brethren. This is farre enough from Preaching in an ordinary way, with all Authority; which are words of his owne, put in without any ground.
5. But for him to adde that we hold they may thus preach when they have Officers, and that without any reference at all to them, is extreamly contrary to our practiſe, and furtheſt from the truth. For this would directly croſſe Chriſt his inſtitution of calling Officers in his Church, and make meere cyphers of them, whoſe Office it is not onelyonly to preach, but to rule and governe the Aſſembly, to open the doore of ſpeech to any in the congregation, and to ſhut it up by ſilence, ſo that none may ſo much as ſpeak without his allowance.
☞And this expreſſion of his is contrary to his owne Narration in Art. 8. where he ſaith, That ſome of the Acts we aſcribe to our Miniſters in Office, are to declare unto their people the minde of God, and to moderate in Church-meetings: yet here he ſpeakes cleane contrary to himſelfe and the truth alſo.
☞6. For him to adde, That wee hold that Chriſt hath inveſted theſe illiterate men with all power to doe all theſe things, ſo farre beyond their power, and all ordinary poſſibility, contrary to all rule, and to his owne inſtitution; is to put upon us one of the groſſeſt abſurdities that ever was heard of; even to make Chriſt croſſe himſelfe, and to be a patron of confuſion in his owne houſe, by inveſting them with all power to oppoſe his owne rules of Order.
Now let us ſee what grounds our Nartatour hath to lay all theſe charges againſt us. You will thinke, ſure his proofes are ſtrong, or hee would never have ventured, to blemiſh ſo many thouſands of Gods faithfull I ſervants in ſuch ſore accuſations as theſe. True hee quotes many, and (that I might ſee his bottom,) I have ſurveied all the printed Authors in every page quoted;☞ and (I ſolemnly profeſſe it) that none of theſe particulars rehearſed as hee hath laid them downe, much leſſe in them all, will any of them beare him out: and I deſire the Reader to try, whether I blame him juſtly or no, by peruſing the bookes.
But that you may ſee how ſoberly and cautiouſly his quoted Authors ſpeake of Churches uſing their liberty, I will write their own words. Anſ. to 32. q. 44. Wee conceive every Church hath right from Chriſt to tranſact all their Church buſineſſe, (but marke the cautions) If ſo be they be able and carry matters justly, and according to the rules of the word. How different are thoſe words from his? yet this is the very place he cites.
You ſay, W. R. you undertake onelyonly to tell a ſtory of New-England Church way, but now you make a ſtory of your own, and frame it, and mould it after your owne faſhion. You can ſo adde and alter as to make it ſpeake as you pleaſe, that wee and our waies may ſeeme odious to the Churches.☞ Is this a truthing of it in love (as you ſpoke in the laſt words of your Poſtſcript?) and dare you pray for a bleſſing on your booke (as in the laſt words of your preface you doe, ſaying) Now the bleſſing of heaven goe with this poore Pamphlet, when it is ſo ſtuffed and bumbaſted with ſuch fearefull untruths and ſlaunders?
Art. 3. All which (Church matters) wee claime power (ſaith he) to our ſelves to doe, without any Authority, concurrence, or aſsiſtance of any other Churches or Officers.
Authority is either immediately from the perſon, Anſwer. & that ſome call coercive and forcing; or from the rule, and that ſome call doctrinall, (no leſſe binding then the other.) The former in tranſacting Church matters, wee uſe not, for want of Scripture grounds, that Chriſt hath given any other Churches or their Officers power over us. The latter upon al occaſions we improve by calling in the aſſiſtance of other Churches, and hold our ſelves bound to follow their counſell as farre as it is grounded on the word.
Art. 6. He ſaith we hold the Church (if ſhe conceives that the Officers doe not uſe their power well) may reſume it unto her ſelfe.
If he meanes (while they abide in their Office) they may doe this, Anſw. wee muſt profeſſe againſt his relation; for if the Officers doe abuſe their power, the Church exhorts him as a father, to fulfill his Miniſtery received from the Lord, as Col. 4.17. and if great neede require, they may admoniſh him, and if no other meanes will poſsibly cure, they may at laſt for incorrigble going on in manifeſt abuſe of his place, excommunicate him: but in no wi…e, while he abides in O…fice to reſume their power, and enter upon his worke. And obſerve him againe quoting his Authour to beare him out in his ſpeeches, who is not for him, but againſt him. Anſ. to 32. q. 58. where he ſaith, that no member without breach of order, and preſuming above his place, may doe our Miniſteriall acts of Church Governement, but the Presbyters may onelyonly doe them, Which Anſ. of ours doth alſo take off thoſe Marginalls, pag. 26. and ſaves us further labour, and part of the 7. Art. alſo that ſpeakes to the ſame effect.
He ſaith Art. 7. We hold the Officers are all but the Churches Servants in propriety of ſpeech, and the Church the Miſtrie.
That all Officers are the Churches Servants was no ſtrange thing to a Miniſter farre better then any of us, 2 Cor. 4 5. Anſwer. Our ſelves your ſervants for Chriſts his ſake. But (becauſe he muſt needes keepe his hands inure) hee will in this, (as almoſt in all his Articles) be ſtill adding ſomething of his owne, to blurre the buſineſſe. Therefore he ſaith, wee hold O ficers but the Church…s ſervants, which word [but] implyes a vilifying of Miniſters and their place: whereas we have learned to eſteeme them very highly for their workes ſake, 1. Theſ. 5.13. and alſo that they are onelyonly ſervants, nothing, but, ſervants; whereas we know they are Governours alſo. 2. … adds another expreſſion of his owne, in propriety of ſpeech, and makes a great ſtirre in his Marg. on that Article, that a Miniſter ſhould be a ſervant in propriety of ſpeech, (whereas it is his owne addition, and not our ſpeech.)
Anſw. The Officer may be ſaid to bee a ruler and a ſervant too, in diverſe reſpects, as Heb. 13.17. with 2 Cor. 4 5. And Chriſt himſelfe is both, and ſo is the greateſt Prince in the world, a ſervant to the Common weale. But his ſpirit is loath to acknowledge this, and labours to evade it, by ſuch arguments as the Biſhops made uſe of for their ſole power in the Church; but wee know, to be ſervants of the Church, is no other then to bee for the Church, and not the Church for them equally; And ſo he that is a ruler in the Church may be well ſaid to be a ſervant. In this caſe the max…m of law holds good in Divinity, that a King is ſingulis maior, univerſis minor, ſo the Church Officers are ſingulis maiores, Eccleſiâ minores.
To Art. 9. That every member (except women and thoſe under age) hath equall power even with the Miniſters themſelves in propounding, obiecting, anſwering, and iudiciall decreeing, and giving ſentence in all matters of the Church whatſoever, whether pertaining to Doctrine or practiſe.
…ſw.The relator of a ſtory, (eſpecially, when hee pretends and promiſeth to write nothing materiall but from his cited Authors) ſhould bee faithfull,☞ and not make bold groſly to vary from the matter, manner, words, ſcope and all, much leſſe to cite Authors that ſpeake againſt him; but if you reade his Author, Anſ. to 32 q. p. 44. (the place cited even now) you will finde, That the Church (indeede) hath a right within her ſelfe, to tranſact her owne matters, but how? according to the rights of the word: did the word ever give people liberty equall with the Miniſter? doth it not profeſſedly condemne ſuch doing in the Church? and yet this is the only printed Author of our own, that wee can come at, brought to iuſtifie this abſurd Article.
Beſides, all men know (that are ſeen in our wayes) it is againſt our principles, to have people propound and give ſentence in the Churches decrees, theſe being acts of rule proper to the Officers, as Anſ. to 32. q. 57. 58. plainely ſpeakes; and yet he fa…th, we hold the people have power, yea equall power, and that with the Miniſters themſelves, even in all matters of the Church whatſoever.
Now what will become of his Marg. on this Art. full of exclamation and clamout? This body (ſaith he) is all an eye, all tongue, all Governours, all teachers, contrary to the Apoſtles rule, &c. wherein he fights with a ſhadow, and we leave him ſo to doe.
5. He tells us in Art. 10. and the Marg. that wee hold all things ought to have a full debate in the preſence of the whole ſociety, untill all be ſatisfied.
Marke his words how large, 1 All things. 2 A full debate. 3 It ought to be ſo before the whole ſocietie? till all be ſatisfied: And not one word (we can come at) to prove any of theſe univerſalls, whereas (the truth is) we neither hold ſo, nor practiſe ſo; but bring as few matters as poſſible, into the Aſſembly, rather labouring to take all things up in private, and then make as ſhort work in publique, (when they muſt needs come there) as may be.
Now what will become of that long Marginall wherein (ſo ungroundly) he makes invectives againſt us and our popular government: (as he is pleaſed injuriouſly to terme it) for making ſtore of worke in our congregations, in hearing, debating, examining all matters till all be ſatisfied, which will take up (ſaith he) not an hower or two in a weeke, nor in every day of the weeke, nor ſcarce all the whole weeke time will ſuffice to finiſh buſineſſe in that kind that may fall out; and tire Miniſters and People, and breake the Sabbath, by keeping Courts thereon, &c. And ſo goes on at random to ſpeake evill of things he knowes not, whereas many of our Churches are oft for many dayes together, and weekes, and moneths alſo, free from ſuch heapes of matters as he dreames of, and oftentimes from any at all.
But this is his dealing, firſt he makes an Article of his own, for words, matter, manner, with divers univerſalls in it, expreſly contrary to the truth, and without one word of authority for it, and then drawes his own collections from it, with courſe language and bitter invectives.
In Art. 11. he deales exceeding ill (at leaſt) in 6. particulars in this one Article. 1. He repreſents us to the world as a people unſet…ed, and ſtrangely divided amongſt our ſelves in the way of voting. Some (ſaith he) affirme, that the major part carries matters; others, that unleſſe all doe agree, nothing proceeds, ſome, that things are not carryed by voyces at all, but by truth and according to God.
1. Let the Reader note well, Anſwer. that our Narrator undertakes to relate the Opinions and practiſes [generally] held by the Churches in New-England, as in the title pag. 1. And that the Churches in New-England walke in one way: And yet here he brings 3 relations, croſſing each other of our practiſes in a very materiall point of Diſcipline. How can the Churches practiſe one way and yet goe 3. contrary wayes at once? and how can he truly relate ſuch things as are [generally] held by all the Churches, and yet tells us, how they hold and practiſe 3. ſeverall things at the ſame time? For (I confeſſe) if he had undertaken to declare the practiſes of ſome particular men only, and not of Churches; or of ſome Churches, not of the Churches of New-England in generall: Or if all thoſe Churches were not of one, and the ſame way, (but he profeſſeth they are, and that without any materiall difference) then his taske were eaſier to ſhow how they walke in 3. ſeverall waies at once. But now I leave him to untie the knot, and ſave his credit.
2. Here he pretends to bring Authors to prove that the Churches in New-England, ☞(who walke in one and the ſame way) doe walke in 3. ſeverall waies: Doe his Authors ſpeake true? how then doe we walke in one and the ſame way without any materiall difference, (as he ſaid when he would make his advantage by it) doe they ſpeake falſe? why then doth he bring ſuch for the ground of his Narrative, that ſo abuſe him and us? or elſe doth he miſtake their words, or falſifie them? (that is worſt of all) In either of which, we muſt needs innocently ſuffer.
Here you ſee his ſpeech verified in his Poſtſcript, pag. 50. That whether the reports he brings be true or falſe, it's nothing to him.
3. Now we will ſcan his Authors quoted, to ſee whether the blame lies on them or himſelfe, the firſt pretended proofe is Anſ. to 32. q. pag. 60. 61. 62.
That the whole body muſt agree, elſe nothing can be done. Whereas this Author ſaith no ſuch thing, but the contrary rather, that is; That if the whole body accord not at firſt, but the minor part diſagreeth, there are other means partly within them…lves, and partly by calling in help… from other Churches to bring matters to an iſſue. This plainly ſheweth that ſome things may be done, when all agree not.
The 2. proofe is for this. That ſome things are not carryed by vo…es at all, but by truth and right according to God. And cites Anſ. to 32. q 58 60. who ſaith to this eff…ct, that the word is the only rule whereby all Chur…h votes are carryed; and that matters are not to be carryed [only] that is farre enough from [not a all▪] by multitud…s of voices. For though the word of truth, (we all grant) be the only rule of Church proceedings, yet the means of all tranſactions in our Church muſt be the lively voices of the Saints, &c. Thus his proofs failing, who muſt be the father of this untruth, caſt upon New-England, you may well judge.
☞4. Note yet further, whereas he quotes Anſ. to 32. q. 61. to prove, that unleſſe all agree nothing can be done: Yet from the ſame Author, and ſelfeſame page (in the end of this ſame 11. Art.) he concludes that though ſome di…agree, y…t matters may b… ended, and the reſt proceed. That as he often ſpeakes contrary to himſelf…, ſo he can make his Author doe the ſame if he liſt, and can (as ſhips uſe to doe at ſea) ſaile contrary waies with the ſame winde.
5. And yet (which is worſe then the other) he would ſeeme to hide and cloake this dea…ing of his, and lay the fault upon our variableneſſe, and ſay [ſometimes they grant, &c.] as if we were (like the wind) ſ…metimes one way, and ſom…tim…s another, yet all is from the ſame Author in the ſame page, at the ſame time. And often you will find this word [ſometime] to be brought in throughout the booke in the ſame ſenſe (as here,) to make the world beleeve that our judgements and practiſes are variable, and to defend him ſelfe from a blow in caſe he be queſtioned.
6. If a leſſer number (ſaith he) diſſent from the greater, neither can give ſatiſfaction to them, or will receive it from them, and è contra; but ſtill perſiſt in diſſenting, then the major part (after due forbearance and calling in the counſell of neighbouring Churches) admoniſh — and cenſure them.
This (he ſaith in the Margent) is harſh dealing and uncharitable and fooliſh, yea deſtructive, and ſpares no words that might lay loade upon us. Yea, but it may be his grounds for proofe are ſound, and ſo he may be the more bold to blame us: but he cites onelyonly Anſwer to 32. q. 58. 61. whoſe words are, If it appeares that ſuch …s diſſent from the maior part be [factiouſly or partially carried]— and after the reſt have laboured to convince them by the rule, yet ſtill they continu… [obſtinate] they are admoniſhed— &c.
Now ſpeak W. R. is this faire dealing, firſt to pretend proofes,☜ & leave out the moſt materiall words, and ſecondly blame us for harſhneſſe when there is no cauſe; here you ſee is 1 faction, 2 partiality, 3 both thoſe appearing, 4 obſtinacy, 5 continuing in obſtinacy after meanes uſed according to rule; all theſe before the cenſure of admonition paſſed; but you in your relation leave out all theſe words of your Authors and put in ſuch of your owne as will not ſo much enforce a cenſure as theſe, and then taxe us (at your pleaſure) and make bitter invectives againſt us in your Margent? If I ſhould have retorted and ſaid, This dealing of yours is harſh, uncharitable, fooliſh, deſtructive, &c. it would have troubled you: (yet you are but a ſingle perſon, thoſe whom you reproach are whole Churches, many Churches of Saints) but wee have learned what the Apoſtle ſaith, 1 Pet. 2.23. and to forbeare. This Article being thus laid proſtrate, there is nothing at all in his Marginal extraction worth anſwer.
He blames us Art. 12. That we deny unto the Church all power to make any particular rules or lawes in things indifferent (conducing to the better Governement of her ſelfe and more orderly and edifying performance of Gods worſhip) accord…ng to the generall rules of Scripture, &c.
1. He hath falſified his printed Authors alledged for this Art. Anſ. Anſw. to 32. q. 66. Col. Cap. 7. where is not a ſyllable of things indifferent, for whereas they indeede denie Churches power to make lawes about Church Governement, &c. their words & meaning are expreſſed, it is only in ſuch matters where the Scripture hath made lawes already and therefore they ſay, The Churches have no power to make lawes, but to obſerve thoſe lawes which Chriſt hath given and commanded, and doe alleadge, Mat. 28.20. Deut. 33.3. Iohn 20.27. None (I hope) can thinke this a thing indifferent for us to add lawes to Chriſt his owne lawes, and this is all they ſay.
2. If you meane [by making of lawes] inferring of plaine and neceſſary concluſions from their proper grounds in Scripture, wee grant a power in a Church ſo to doe: yet ſo, as they ſhall not be binding, unleſſe the evidence of the conſequence be made appeare, as Rom. 14.5.22.23. But i… [by making of lawes] you meane a drawing of concluſions from r…mote Principles, ſuch as the Biſhops were wont to doe. [All things muſt bee decently done and in order,] therefore a Surplice, a Croſſe in Baptiſme a bowing at the Altar, &c. we deny it, as an inlet of all humane inventions.
Many of the Marginalls of this 6 Chap. are already anſwered, ſome few remaine, as
Who would not long to be churched ſeeing they are indued with ſuch a vaſt power? this is a ſweet morſell, no marvell peoples teeth ſo water after it, &c. p. 23.
I can tell you who longs not for Churching, it is W. R. himſelfe, who with heart,…ſw. hand, and pen thus oppoſeth it; but why doe not his teeth alſo water after it? It is I ſuppoſe becauſe the people have a voyce in Church matters, and Miniſters cannot carrie all. 2 Why doe you thinke W. R. that peoples teeth ſhould ſo much water after this way? ſeeing they are under many watchfull eyes, a ſtrict Covenant, diſgraces in the world, ſharpe cenſures (and overharſh too if all you ſay be true) therefore, why ſhould they ſo much deſire theſe waies thinke you (they being ſo croſſe to corruption that would have elbowroom) unleſſe they did ſee and feele our beauty and warmth of Chriſt in them? This is the true and reall cauſe.
The word (ſaith h) and the Sacraments ſhould be both ſetled on the Miniſtry. [Goe preach and baptize, &c.] Why doe wee ſeparate them? pag. 23.
To Pre…ch by Office (which is the preaching that Chriſt there gives in commiſſion to his Diſciples being called to be Apoſtles) is proper only to Miniſters,…ſwer. who are to waite upon teaching, Rom. 12.7. and this preaching and the adminiſtration of the Sacraments are ever joyned together in the ſame perſon. But there is a preaching in a large ſenſe. i. e ſometimes to apply a word of inſtruction, exhortation, conſolation, if neceſſity ſhall require, according to their talent, being invited thereunto, and this may be common to other godly and able Chriſtians, though not called into Office, as Art 8. 1. 4. where the whole Church (except the Apoſtles) were ſcattered by perſecution, and they that were ſo ſcattered: (without diſtinction of Miniſters or people) went to and fro preaching, therefore others (beſides Miniſters) in ſome caſe may preach the word; if you take [preach] in a larger ſenſe.
3. For the two inſtances hee brings p. 24. of Peoples unabilitie of iudging, electing, voting, &c. from Holland and Boſton, &c.
1. The beſt people on earth may have their houre of temptation; and perſonall failings doe not hinder the goodneſſe or truth of the rule.…nſw.
2. What Church in the world hath not poſſibly, firſt or laſt, given or elſe may give ſtrange inſtances of humane frailty: but ſtill you count their way good.
3. Even thoſe Churches you mention were able at other times, both before and ſince, to act, as becomes prudent and godly men, though poſſibly at that time they might ſhew themſelves to be but men.
4. Theſe perſons recovered out of their error, and lay not in it: you ſhould have mentioned this as well as that.
If the Officers through ſcruple of conſcience, perhaps) refuſe to act according to their (i. e. the peoples) minde, they will (& they hold they may) call fourth any other member to do, and enable him with power to doe all that their Officers ſhould have done, except Sacraments.
A moſt unjuſt and ſlanderous report, and without any word of proofe; Anſw. ſo now we muſt father it upon him, and doe here require him to prove it, for almoſt every word is an aggravation: but I ſtudy brevity, and mentioned this before Art. 9.
They complaine in print, that their Miniſters are ſlighted amongſt them, yea trampled upon by ſome. And mentions for this Cot. on 2 vial. p. 24. of whoſe words judge, and you ſhall not finde one word to warrant him.
All his invectives againſt us on the 11. Article Marg. for extorting a conſent from ſuch as diſſent from us, is exceeding ſlaunderous, and not a word true, nor any tittle of proofe, for none are ever admoniſhed for diſſenting, but for faction and obſtinacy, as his Authors ſpeake, as was ſaid before.
Let me heare tell the Reader, there are ſundry unſound and uncouth paſſages in this chap. (as indeede through the whole booke) which for brevity. I am forced to paſſe by, and (indeede) not worth my time. I intreate thee to take all his ſayings with a graine of ſalt: knowing from what ſpirit they proceede.