Gainsayer Convinced, Tract · Part 3 (1 of 2)

Gainsayer Convinced · Tract · Part 3 (1 of 2)

p. 3To come to your diſlikes.

Firſt, (you ſay) you cannot but diſlike my praying and prating againſt thoſe, whom I have formerly prayed and preacht up, viz: the gallant godly Army; and this preſents us meer weather-cocks, &c.

p. 4I anſwer: Firſt, to your diſlike of our praying for, and againſt—while our gallant godly Army, kept in Gods wayes, and in their own ſphear, they were honorable and precious in the eyes of all Gods ſervants, they then had our hearts, our help, and our prayers for ſucceſſe therein; and we have bleſt our ever to be admired Jehovah, for crowning their labour and valour with ſucceſſe: But if theſe or any other for whom we have prayed, and whom we have preached up, do decline that pitch, and we then withdraw, I hope no underſtanding indifferent man can for this call us Weather-cocks; they that do, are revilers, and ſlanderers; I leave it to the Lord (who beſt can) to judge betwixt us and them, who have turn'd about, and who have kept their ſtation.

2ly, As for my praying againſt them, the Lord (who is a God hearing prayer) knows that my prayers have been ſuch for them, as for mine own Soul; viz. that God would ſhew them all the evill of their wayes, (I hope you will not make them infallible) that he would give them repentance unto life; that ſo their iniquity might be blotted out: Now I am much miſtaken, if the underſtanding and wiſe in heart, do call this praying againſt a man: I ſhal thank any Man that hath any intereſt at the Throne of Grace, that will thus pray againſt me; if this, I ſay, be to pray againſt one.

In the next place, where you call our preaching, prating; if you be not quite brazen and impudent (me thinks) yee might bluſh and be aſhamed of your uncivill and unbeſeeming language, to call the preaching of that (which I challenge you or all the world to prove) to be any thing but the truth of God;—Prating.—

But this is no new thing; Paul, tels us that the preaching of the Croſſe, is to them that periſh fooliſhneſſe. 1. Cor. 1. 18. And Paul himſelf, by Idolatrous Athenians (though preaching Chriſt) yet counted a Babler. What will this Babler ſay? Acts 17. 18. ver. Here was language as perverſe as their Religion, and for my part, I expect no more mercy at the Tongues of men, then the Apoſtles had; In all Ages the wicked bend their Bows, and ſhoot their Arrows, even bitter words.

Paper. In the ſecond place, you ſay you diſlike the miſapplication of that place of Scripture, Iſa. 3. the baſe are riſen againſt the honourable, you ſay it is my common practiſe whereby I lead men in dark paths; you ſay this is a Riddle that wants an Interpreter; and theſe are but Bals of wild-fire, to ſet the Kingdom freſh on fire, and fill the hearts of the Sons of Belial, with diſhonourable thoughts of the Kingdoms worthies in the Army. &c.

Anſ. To this I anſwer. Firſt, That that place of Scripture is no Riddle p. 5(if you know what a Riddle is) and ſo needs no Interpreter at preſent, if you doe not ſhut your eyes, ſuch plaine places cannot be hidden to you, and as for the miſapplication of it, which you charge me withall, you charge me falſly, for I made no Application of it all to any; you venture to expound the words in your Paper, & to ſhew who are the vile and baſe, and who the honorable, viz. who baſe (ſay you) but thoſe who baſely falſifie and betray their truſt repoſed in them? who baſe, but ſuch as ſeek their own advancement by a Kingdoms ruine? Truly theſe are baſe ones indeed: The Lord help you to apply, as rightly as you have expounded, and then I doubt not but you will ſee who they are that are led in thoſe dark paths which you ſpeak of.

2ly, In that you ſay 'tis my common practice, to miſapply Scripture, and to lead people in dark paths: I ſay here as Paul, 1 Cor. 4. 3, 4, 5. being diſgraced by ſome Corinthian Doctors, and falſe teachers that were crept in amongſt them (whoſe ſteps many do follow in theſe dayes, and do make it their work to beget a prejudice in people againſt their Miniſters) with me, it is a very ſmall thing, that I ſhould be judged by you, or by mans judgement; for I judge not my own ſelf; for I know nothing by my ſelf (in this which you here lay to my charge) yet am I not hereby juſtified, but he that judgeth me is the Lord: therefore judge nothing before the time, untill the Lord come; who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkneſſe, and will make manifeſt the counſels of all hearts.

3ly, In that you dare ſay, that any parts of Scripture, are Bals of wildefire, &c. Remember what St. James ſaith of an evill tongue, Jam. 3. 6, &c. The tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity, and is ſet on fire of hell: the tongue that dares caſt iniquity upon God, or his Word, is ſurely ſet on fire of hell.

Pap. 4ly, In that you charge us as ſeeing-blind Phariſees, and ſay that 'tis our condition, to ſin with our eyes open, becauſe you cannot but remember our carriage and zeal for thoſe whom we now condemne: Oh what pains (ſay you) was ſpent in their behalf? what prayers put up for them? &c. is all this buried in the grave of oblivion? and what is the reaſon? have theſe Worthies (ſay you) fallen from their faithfulnes? No, no.

I anſwer. In this caſe you nor I muſt not judge, at leaſt ſay whether they have or no: onelyonly all that we deſire is, that the Lord may judge betwixt us and them. I ſhall ſay no more of this, in this place, becauſe I have ſpoken ſomething to it already, in my Anſwer to your firſt diſlike of our praying for, and againſt.

Paper. I ſhall ſpeak but one word more to your ſecond head, and that is this: you ſpeak of the honorable ſervice of ſome in bringing Delinquents to p. 6juſtice and puniſhment, and that from this, that the Scripture ſaith, That Righteouſneſſe exa…ts a Nation.

Anſ. For anſwer, let me onelyonly tell you here, that that juſtice which exalts a Nation, muſt be, both for the matter and merit, as alſo for the manner and form of doing it, unqueſtionable and clear; and muſt not be executed without an orderly Authority derived either immediately from God, Dr. Gaud. Rel Prot.or mediately from thoſe Politick Laws and ſettled Magiſtracies, which are Gods ordinances amongſt men. But where the execution of Juſtice is unjuſtly uſurped, and carried on without any warrant from Gods Word, or mans Laws, either as precept and rule, or example; ſuch an execution of juſtice, is a turning of judgement into wormwood, and doth depreſſe and bring a Nation lowe under the judgements of God, rather then exalt it: I ſpeak not this in reference to any perſons, or actions; onelyonly to inform your judgement a little.

Paper. In the next place, you charge me with praying that the Lord would bring the King out of the hands of thoſe that had reſtrained him, and what was this (ſay you) but a ſtroaking Malignants on the breaſt? and a making the Army odious in the eyes of the ſimple deluded ones?

Anſ. To this I anſwer. Firſt, that this accuſation is from the father of lyes too, if ten more of you had ſubſcribed it. This you take upon truſt too, from thoſe who it ſeems have already given ſo much libertie to their conſciences, as to make no conſcience of a lye: having forgotten it ſeems, or counting thoſe places Apocrypha, where the Spirit of God tels us, that a lying tongue is one of thoſe ſeven things which is an abomination to the Lord, and which he hates: Prov. 6. 17. And (if this be an old Teſtament text) that of the Apoſtle, Epheſ 4. 25. Putting away lying, ſpeak every man truth to his neighbour: and if you had as much truth and honeſty as you ſeem to lay claim to (no diſparagement to your honeſty) I could bring twenty and ten as honeſt men as your ſelves to teſtifie the contrary. What I ſaid, I truſt I am able to make good, as being nothing but what was, and yet is, juſtifiable before God and men, and that was this: I prayed, that God would deliver the King out of the hands of thoſe that ſought his deſtruction; and this was no more then what I was bound in conſcience to do (while he was living) being one of his Subjects, and having many Oaths, Proteſtations and Covenants, ſacred and civill tyes and bonds lying upon me, obliging and ingaging me to obedience and loyaltie; and to indeavour in my place, the preſervation of his perſon, and the promoting of his honour and ſafetie. And certainly you have not lived ſo long, nor undergone ſo many Offices in the Common-wealth (as ſome of you have) p. 7but ſome of the ſame Oaths and Covenants have been more then once taken by your ſelves: Now I muſt plainly confeſſe to you, that (what new Religion ſoever you have lately met with to abſolve your conſciences from ſo many oaths and obligations, in all which, you have call'd the Almighty and all ſeeing God of heaven to be both a witneſſe to you, and an avenger upon you) I for my part am (as yet) ignorant of any power under heaven that can abſolve me from ſuch oaths taken before God to my lawfull Soveraign. I know but one power that pretends to it, and undertakes to do it, and that is the Pope. But for God, I doubt not but you (who pretend ſo much to walk by the rule of the Word) do know, what a ſwift witneſſe the Lord is againſt ſuch as ſwear falſly by his name, and what a revenger he is to ſuch ſins. Read Zach. 5. 4 firſt verſes, there's a flying roll of curſes, that ſhall enter into the houſe of him that ſwears falſly, it ſhall remain in the midſt of his houſe, and ſhall conſume it with the timber thereof, and ſtones thereof. Now (I ſay) though you may (perchance) have found liberty of conſcience, yet (for my part) I cannot yet find liberty to ſwallow down ſuch a camell as this is without choaking.

Pap. 2ly, Whereas you ſay, that in this we ſtroaked the Malignants, and had this end in it, to make the Army odious, that theſe prayers ſavour more of fleſh then ſpirit, more of zeal then knowledge, that they proceeded from ſelf ends, &c.

Anſ. I anſwer. I bleſſe God, I have learnt to bear with patience theſe, and more ſuch reproaches as theſe are; the Lord forgive you: what my prayers were, and from what ſpirit they proceeded, and what I aymed at in them, as my end, the Lord knows; that's my comfort: and you ſhall know too one day, when the ſecrets of all hearts ſhall be made manifeſt.

Again, whereas you charge us with not laying down our Call from the Biſhops; I ſhall more fully ſpeak to that hereafter; you give me occaſion in the following part of your Paper to clear that, and therefore I ſhall not meddle with it here.

Paper. In the fourth part you ſay, I prayed that the Lord would take the Sword out of thoſe hands in which now it was, &c.

Anſ. Ten of you have ſubſcribed this too: Pray how many of you dare ſay, that you heard me ſpeak the words? This you take upon hear-ſay too: And let me tell you, that if you give credit long to the informations of thoſe, who have thus learnt to ſtretch their mouthes, you'l forfeit your own credit quickly: I ſay in this to you again, if the number were trebled, I am able to make it good, by as good, and far greater teſtimony, hat this too is falſe, for there was not ſuch a word ſpoken: you tell me p. 8in the next branch, that true Miniſters ſhould be no falſe accuſers. May the people be ſuch. The ſame ſpirit tels us, that every righteous man will hatelying: Prov. 13. 5. The Lord in merciemercy give you grace to repent (if that be not too legall a grace to be wiſht to ſuch high flown Chriſtians) but however let me tell you (that except you repent) the Scripture ſaith, that A falſe wi…n…ſſe ſhall not be unpuniſhed: and he that ſpeaketh lyes ſhall not eſcape. Prov. 19. 5.

Paper. In the fifth place, you ſay, you cannot but wonder, at that abominable aſſertion, and falſe aſperſion hinted in our expreſſions, as if the Army would down with truth, with Government, faithfull Miniſters, and ſet up falſe Apoſtles, &c. and how falſe this is, the world ſees.

Anſ. 1. I cannot but wonder at your abominable ignorance, and impudence, to call that a falſe aſſertion and aſperſion, and ſo cruelly to condemne it as abominable, and a falſe accuſation; which yet in the ſame place you ſay was but hinted at in ſome expreſſions; bluſh and be aſhamed (if you be not paſt it.)

2ly, For what the Army puls down, or intends to ſet up, it is not for you nor me to meddle with now; therefore no more of that: let it ſuffice that the world ſees (as you ſay.)

Paper. 3ly, That only which I chiefly would anſwer in this fift place, is this:—you ſay, you conceive that none are true Miniſters in our account but ſuch as come by State approbation, and have their call from the Biſhops, and they from the Pope, and ſuch is ours if you miſtake not.

Anſ. To theſe things I will anſwer particularly. Firſt, whereas you ſay that (you conceive) that none are true Miniſters in our account but ſuch as come by State approbation.

1. I anſwer. I ſhall herein give you a certain account of my judgement and opinion herein, which I hope I ſhall be able to make good againſt you, and all other gainſayers. To proceed plainly, and by degrees.

Firſt then I ſay, that our Lord Jeſus Chriſt as he doth inviſibly teach and govern his Church by his holy Spirit, ſo in gathering, preſerving, inſtructing, building and ſaving thereof, he uſes Miniſters as his inſtruments: and hath appointed an order of ſome to teach, and others to learn in the Church; and that ſome ſhould be the flock, and others the Paſtors.

Again, beſides the firſt founders of the Church of Chriſt, extraordinarily ſent, and furniſhed with the gift of miracles, whereby they might confirm the doct…ine of the Goſpel, he appointed alſo, ordinary Paſtors and Teachers for the executing of the Miniſtery even untill his coming p. 9again unto judgement. See Epheſ. 4 11, 12, 13.

2ly. I ſay that it is not lawfull for any man, how fit ſoever, and how much ſoever inriched with gifts, to undertake this Office of the Miniſtery, in the Adminiſtration either of the word or Sacraments, by the will of private perſons or others, who have not power and right to call; much leſſe is it lawfull for any, by their owne judgement or arbitrement, to aſſume & arrogate the ſame to themſelves: But before it be lawfull to undergo that ſacred Miniſtry (in Churches conſtituted) a ſpeciall calling (yea beſide a lawfull Election (which alone is not ſufficient) a miſſion or ſending, or (as commonly it is termed) ordination, is neceſſarily required; I ſay, neceſſarily required, not only to avoid confuſion, and to ſhut out Impoſters, but by reaſon of divine inſtitution delivered to us in the holy Scriptures. See theſe places, Rom. 10. 15. How ſhall they preach except they be ſent. 1. Tim. 3. 10. where the Apoſtle ſhewing, how Biſhops and Deacons ſhould be qualified; ſaith, Let theſe firſt be proved, and then let them uſe the Office. Againe, 1. Tim. 4. 14. Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by Propheſie, with the laying on of the hands of the Presbytery. Againe, 1. Titus 5. For this cauſe left I thee in Creet, that thou ſhouldeſt ordaine Elders in every City as I had appointed thee. Again, Acts 13. 2. 3. &c. where you find that the Holy Ghoſt commanded the Prophets and Teachers in the Church at Antioch, to ſeparate Barnabas and Saul, for the work whereunto he had called them; and the Text ſaith, that when they had prayed and faſted, and layd their hands on them, they ſent them away: Can any thing be more cleare? Barnabas and Saul were queſtionles gifted men; they had a Call from the Holy Ghoſt, the text ſaith ſo plainly, but yet this was not ſufficient, till the Prophets and Teachers there, had faſted and prayed, and layed their hands on them: Once more ſee the 5. Heb. the firſt 4 verſes. Every High Prieſt, taken from among men, is ordained for men, in things pertaining to God, that he may offer &c. And in the 4^th. verſe. And no Man taketh this Honour to himſelfe, but he that is called of God as Aarou was.

Now you muſt know that there is a double calling, neceſſary to a diſpencer of the myderies of Salvation, viz. inward and outward; the inward inableth them, the outward authorizeth them to diſcharge their ſacred Function. Where there are gifts (if God incline the heart of the heart of the Party to enter into the Miniſtry) there is an inward calling, yet this alone (as I have ſhewed) ſufficeth not, without an outward calling, either ordinary or extraordinary—extraordinary callings (ſeeing miracles are ceaſed) we are not now to expect; and if any (as many now) do pretend to ſuch, we are not eaſily to believe and give way thereunto, p. 10to the ordinary calling, by faſting and prayer, and the impoſition of the hands of the Presbytery—as before mentioned. 1 Tim. 4. 14. and by the way you may take notice, that though the word Presbytery be (in theſe dayes) ſo diſtaſtfull, yet 'tis Scripture proof.

From hence now my account (which you ſaid before you did conceive) is this: that all that take upon them, to execute the office of a Miniſter of the Goſpel, ought to have a Calling, not only inward, but outward thereunto; I ſay, not by the Approbation of the State, but the probation and approbation of the Presbytery, & the impoſition of their hands: And they who preſume to undertake to be your Miniſters without theſe whatever their gifts be (which many Lay-men, Artizans, Mechanicks, and broken Tradſmen in theſe dayes pretend to) they are no Miniſters of the Goſpel, but deceivers and Intruders.

And thus I have ſhewed you, whom we account Goſpel Miniſters.

In the next place I ſhall indeavour to remove the great block at which you ſtumble ſo often, that Crum which troubles you ſo much even to your choaking almoſt, and that is the Ordination of ſome of our Miniſters by the Biſhops.

Paper. You ſay we have our call from the Biſhops, and they from the Pope, and ſuch is our Call, if you miſtake not.

Anſ. Tis well you put in an [if] here, if you miſtake not. Tis no news for you to miſtake, and your miſtakes are very foule ones; ſuch that every underſtanding man cannot but wonder at, that they ſhould come from ſuch men as you, who pretend ſo to light: But it appeares plainly, that the new light which hath lately ſhune about you, tis as that extraordinary light, that did ſhine about Saul at his converſion (if I may make ſuch a compariſon) it hath ſtruck you quite blinde at preſent, and the light that is in you, appears to be darknes, and how great muſt that darknes be; as our Saviour ſaith, Matth. 6. 23. The Lord in mercy to your Souls, haſten the time, wherein the Scales may fall from your eyes, I ſhall indeavour to pluck off ſome of them at preſent.

Paper. We have (you ſay) our call from the Biſhops, and they from the Pope, and this (if you miſtake not) is our call to the Miniſtry.

Anſ. Firſt, in that you ſay our Biſhops are from the Pope; do you meane in their Names or Functions? Theſe are both from Scripture, from the Apoſtle, See 1. Tim. 1. 3. If any man deſire the Office of a Biſhop, he deſires a good work. Againe, 20. Acts 18. Take heed to your ſelves, and to all the flock, over which the holy Ghoſt hath made you Biſhops,—ſo the word is in the originall.

p. 11Or 2ly, do you meane that they are Popiſh in their opinion and religion? if ſome have been ſo, you cannot condemne them all for that; no your ignorance and your malice, would then ſhame you to all the world; for the contrary hath been witneſſed, by the blood of many famous Martyrs, eminent in the Prelacy, which in freſh Records you ſhall reade hath been ſhed for God, againſt the Harlot of Rome; and by the excellent labours of Bp. Hall Apolog: againſt Browniſtsothers, (and thoſe late Biſhops of this Church) whoſe learned Pens have puld downe more of the Walls of Rome, then all the Corner-Creeping Browniſts and Separatiſts, will be able to do while the World ſtands.

Or 3ly, Do you meane that they are from the Pope in their Superintendency, ſuperiority and Lordlines, if in any thing, it muſt be in this? Now to this I anſwer; That we received our Ordination from them, as they were Biſhops and Elders of the Church, not as they were Lords; and if they were Lords for their externall dignity, yet they were not Lords of of our faith, and if we looked upon them in any thing of their Superiority, it was as they were our Elders, and Fathers, not our Maſters.

Farther yet I ſhall deſire you to take notice, that in the making any man a true Miniſter of the Goſpell, there are ſome things required, which are eſſentiall to the Miniſtery, without which a man is not a true Goſpell Miniſter.

Againe, there are ſome other things which are but circumſtantiall, or Accidentall, which a man may have, or may not have, and yet be a true Goſpell Miniſter.

Now if I may make it appeare to you, that we have all the Eſſentiall requiſites of Goſpell Miniſters (I hope you may be convinct, that we are Miniſters, and Miniſters of the Goſpell (how opprobriouſly ſoever, you cenſure our calling (or elſe you muſt make the contrary appear to us.

Now then if God hath made us able to teach, if he hath inclined our hearts to the office of the Miniſtry, and hath made us deſirous to teach: if he hath ſeparated us, for this cauſe to the worke, if our People have had a lawfull Election, if we have been admitted upon due tryall, both of Miniſters and People, if we have been ordained by impoſition of the hands of the Elderſhip, and prayer, if (I ſay) we have had all theſe things (which appeares to all the World) and yet be no true Miniſters; pray let me know from you, what is further required, to the ſubſtance of a Goſpell Miniſtry? If we have all this, and yet have our calling from the Pope, let me know I ſay from you, what is a Goſpell calling; and if this be not according to the will of Chriſt and his Apoſtles in the Scriptures, (but Popiſh) ſhew me what is.

p. 12A little farther yet in this point, if God upon this call hath commited a charge to us; if he hath followed our Miniſtry with power, and bleſt our labours with gracious ſucceſſe, if (I ſay) God hath done this for us, and by us; with what face dare you challenge our Miniſtry as Popiſh and Antichriſtian? I am ſure you cannot but grant the Miniſtry in generall, to be the ou…ward means by which God gives grace, and increaſes inward grace. Now then that Miniſtry by which God hath given grace & increaſt it, that miniſtry is of Gods appointment: now whether God hath not given grace and increaſt it by our Miniſtry, ſome of your owne hearts and conſciences (if ever you had grace, which you will be loath to deny) ſhall be our witneſſes. I am able to make it good to ſome of you (and that by your own confeſſions) that God hath followed our Miniſtery with power, and bleſt our labours with gracious ſucceſſe, even in ſome of your hearts, whoſe tongues are now ſo buſie to call in queſtion and to deny the truth of our Calling.

Laſtly, If Epiſcopall Ordination be a Popiſh and Antichriſtian rite, as you ſay tis, I deſire to learne from you, what was the Chriſtian for me or manner of admitting men into holy places for 1500. yeers after the Apoſtles time, can you ſhew me any other Ordination that was heard of, at leaſt approved of for the ſpace of 1500 yeers? during which time, it there were no lawfull Calling, there were no Paſtors feeding and governing the flocks; and if no lawfull Paſtors, then no viſible Churches: Now pray tell me, if they were not a true Church in thoſe ſeverall Centuries and ages while they lived under Biſhops; where had Chriſt a viſible Church upon earth ſince the Apoſtles times? Certainly if the Calling of their Paſtors and Teachers were not (at leaſt for ſubſtance) ſufficient (though perhaps not perfect) Chriſt never had any in his Church ſince the Apoſtles left the earth.

And having thus given you an account of ours; I pray, tell me ſeriouſly (ſeeing you have ſeparated from ours as abominable, as you ſpeak afterward in your Paper) whence is that office of the Miniſtery which you now follow? I dare ſay, not from Chriſt, nor his Apoſtles, nor their ſucceſſors: what Church ever in the world can be produced (unleſſe in caſe of extremitie for one turn) whoſe conſpiring multitudes made themſelves Miniſters at their pleaſure? what …ule of Chriſt preſcribes it? what reformed Church ever did or doth practice it? what example warrants it? where or when have the inferiors layed hands on their ſuperiors? what Congregation in Chriſtendome affords you a pattern? The Apoſtle indeed tels us, that the time ſhould come, when men ſhould not indure ſound doctrine, p. 13but after their own luſts ſhould heap to themſelves teachers, having itching ears: And they ſhall turn away their ears from the truth, and ſhall be turned unto fables. 2 Tim. 4. 3, 4. And if ever thoſe words of the Apoſtles were fulfilled, 'tis in theſe times upon which the Lord hath caſt us. And certainly there was never any fable a more arrand device of man, then ſome part of that Miniſtery of yours ſo much gloried in, for ſincere correſpondence to the Primitive Inſtitution.

Pap. In your ſixth place, you ſay, you diſlike not our zeal in Preaching againſt errors, hereſies, and Hereticks.

Anſ. Truly we thank you for nothing; 'tis a wonder almoſt: do you not indeed diſlike it? 'tis well there is ſomething that comes not under the penaltie of your diſlike: hut if you do not diſlike it, I marvell why you (above others) do ſo wince at it; ſurely this argues that there is ſome gawled place. Where iſt?—you tell us ſomething in the next place. Paper. You ſay we take not a Goſpel-way to convince, and to reprove them; as firſt to prove them ſuch. 2ly, by the ſame rule to reprove them, and then caſt them out, if you are a Church of Chriſt,—which if you are, we wonder at your diſorder, &c.

Anſ. We thank you for your inſtructions, and teaching us, how to reprove, and convince hereſies and hereticks. And I deſire to let you know, that we have known, and do know, and have ſufficiently proved, and reproved ſome of your errors, and ſhall (if God permit) do more in that way hereafter: but for our caſting them out, in the firſt place you ſave us that labour, for you ſeparate your ſelves; and beſides if you did not, the Church is (at preſent) ſo rob'd of her power, that Ochim, Zim and Jim, Owles and Satyres, all the devils in hell, are broke looſe amongſt us, and may have a quiet habitation amongſt us; and we are (at preſent) ſtript of all power, (but that of our prayers, and the immediate power of Almighty God) to caſt them out.

You need not (me thinks) wonder ſo much at our diſorder, ſeeing we live in an age, wherein all order and government in Church is counted Popery, and Antichriſtianity, and perſecution of tender conſciences.—For our diſorders, I ſhall ſay as Paul to his Galathians, I would to God they were even cut off, that trouble our order: but they ſhall in their due time receive their reward, and bear their judgement whoſoever they be.Gal. 5. 10. 1….Gal 5:10Gal 5:1

But I cannot but take notice of your ſuppoſition (if we be a Church) which if you are, we wonder at your diſorder.

It ſeems you conclude us to be no Church, becauſe of ſome diſorders: what? is it come to an [if] with you? truly you have made haſte to run p. 14thus far alreadie: what are we no Church? To ſatisfie you in this, let me ask you, do you know what makes and conſtitutes a true viſible Church? It appears you do not, and therefore I will tell you.

According to the Scriptures, and the joynt conſent of all Proteſtant Churches in the world, the ſincere preaching of the Word, and the due adminiſtration of the Sacraments, conſtitutes or makes a true viſible Church. Again, do you know what is a true particular viſible Church? It is a particular company of men, profeſſing the Chriſtian faith known by the two marks above-mentioned, viz: the ſincere preaching of the Word, and the due adminiſtration of the Sacraments.

Now I tell you (and if you have any thing to ſay in denyall of it, I ſhall make it good to you) that by Gods mercy we have the true uſe of the Word and Sacraments, and all other eſſentiall gifts and graces of God to make us a Church; and though (at preſent) by reaſon of many ſuch diſorderly fellows as your ſelves, and by reaſon of the want of ſome helps in execution of that power and authoritie which Chriſt hath inveſted our Church withall, there may be many diſorders amongſt us; and we are annoy'd with many practicall evils: but yet ſo long as the Goſpel is it ſelf amongſt us; ſo long as the aire of that is clear, ſo long as we directly and inviolably hold the foundation; I tell you, that though every rayler may tearm us no Church, and every Ignoramus may doubt whether we be a Church or no, yet there is no Seperatiſt, ſhall be able to prove us no Church: If you can do it, I deſire to hear what you can ſay againſt us: and I promiſe you (if you can prove us no Church, and prove your ſelves to be one) I will be your diſciple: and I will acknowledge that you have received more new and miraculous light then all the **Dr. Featly Dipper dipt.Ruſſet Rabbies, and Mechanick Enthuſiaſts, that ever I yet heard or read of.

For ſurely though ſome of the Maſters of your new way have bitterly inveighed againſt the Hierarchy and tyrannie of ſome of our Prelates, yet the ſame tongues and pens have both juſtified our Church, and extold it: many have indeed oppoſed ſome of our Appendances and circumſtances (which we diſlike with them) but they have acknowledged and defended our ſubſtance. And many of our late moſt rigorous Fathers have not more diſliked our Epiſcopall Government, then imbraced our Church: we are but little beholding to your charitie, who ſeem to queſtion our true viſibilitie of a Church, and the world cannot but laugh at it; and we cannot but pitie your ignorance, that you, for ſome corruptions and diſorders amongſt us, ſhould hold us to be no Church, and ſo ſeparate from us.

p. 15Again, are we no Church? pray then (tell me) what are you? can you be ſo impudent as to deny this, that ſome of you have been begotten again by the word of our Miniſtery? will not your own conſciences convince you? lay your hands upon your hearts, what ſaith conſcience to …his? Have you not I ſay (ſome of you) acknowledged, doth not conſcience yet acknowledge, that (as Paul ſaid to his Corinthians, 1 Cor. 3. 10. according to the grace of God which hath been given to us, ſome of us have layed the foundation of Chriſt in your ſouls? though now another buildeth thereon (as the Apoſtle ſaid) I am ſure of this, Other foundation …an no man lay, then that is layed, which is Jeſus Chriſt. Now let every man …ake heed how he buildeth thereon, he that builds upon this foundation, wood, hay, ſtubble, this work will not abide, but ſhall be burnt, and he …hall ſuffer loſſe, and though himſelf be ſaved, yet it will be ſo as by fire. Again, what ſaith Conſcience to this? have not many of you acknowledged, that ſince your new birth, you have ſuckt much conſolation and ſtrength from the breaſts of our Church? have not many of you been nouriſht, and grow'd thereby? and are we now doubted to be a Church? what's the matter? is the food changed? is there any alteration in that? or have you a ſick mans pallate, that can relliſh no wholſome ſavourie food? Surely, ſurely, it is not becauſe there is no ſavour in the food, but becauſe of the diſtemper of the pallate. The Lord help you to ſee your condition: there is no diſeaſe more dangerous, then thoſe which rob the party of his ſenſes: and every one will tell you, that tis a ſad ſigne of death, when he that is deſperately ſick will tell you that he is well, and feels nothing. I beſeech you remember from whence you are fallen (in …oofing your firſt love) even out of the Church already, whither will the next fall be: I tremble to think of it, if God give you not grace to repent, and to do your firſt works: therefore let me preſſe upon you St. Peters counſell, 1 Pet. 2. 1, 2, 3. Laying aſide all malice, and all guil, and hypocriſies, and envies, and evil ſpeakings; As new born babes, deſire the ſincere milk of the Word, that you may grow thereby: If ſo be that ye have taſted that the Lord is gracious.

Once more: If you look upon us as queſtioning whether we be a Church or no, and ſeparate from us as no Church, let me ask you one queſtion more: Have you renounc'd your Baptiſme? if you renounce our Church, you muſt lay down that, or elſe you are ſtill of our Church; for that was the ordinance by which you have been all admitted, and initiated into our Church. Now, I ſay, if that be not renounc'd, you are yet members of our Church, which yet you ſay is no Church; and ſo by conſequence p. 16you muſt either be members of a Church, which is no Church; (and if ſo) conſider, and tremble to think of your condition; for whiles you are out of the Church, you are ſuch as Paul ſaid his Epheſians were before their Calling, Epheſ. 2. 12. Without Chriſt, aliens from the commonwealth of Iſrael, ſtrangers from the covenants of promiſe, having no hope, and without God in the world.—Now if it be not thus with you, what new Church are you members of? (I hope you are able (at theſe yeers) to give an account of your faith, and you would have us to look upon you as beleevers) have ye then been dipt lately? or hath the weather been too cold? I beleeve all the arguments of your new Paſtor have ſcarce (as yet) prevailed with you for this; what ſigne or ſeal have you then, of your being admitted into a new Church? That which makes me doubt of this, and ask the queſtion, is becauſe I ſee you ſtill retain your old names taken in your Baptiſme, in our now forſaken Church; you ſubſcribe your ſelves, Thomas, and William, and Giles, and John, and Roger, &c. do you not look upon theſe names too, as received in that Antichriſtian ordinance, and ſo away with them, as rags of Antichriſt, and ſuch ſuperſtitious things as not to be retained any longer?

Paper. In your next place, under your ſixth branch, you complain how the poore, deſpiſed, forſaken, godly people of the Land, have not worldly powers to ſide with, but againſt them; and perſecution hath been raiſed by thoſe worldly and ſecular powers againſt the godly, to death, and baniſhment, witneſſe the late indeavours and deſires of the Presbyterian Miniſters.

Anſ. In this I muſt note two or three things: Firſt, if you mean your ſelves, and ſuch as you are, by the poore godly people of the Land, ſurely you will no more complain (I hope) of being deſpiſed, and forſaken, and perſecuted by worldly powers; you are yet alive, and you need not fear baniſhment, or perſecution to death; for you have now gotten the worldly ſecular powers (as you call them) to be with you, and not againſt you: Now if you make the ſyding of the worldly powers, againſt a people, to be alwayes a mark of the godly people of the Land; what then are you at this time, with whom the preſent powers of this part of the world (in which you live) do ſyde?

2ly, I cannot but ſmile at, or rather pitie your ignorance here again; you ſay you are perſecuted by the ſecular powers of the world; witneſſe the indeavours of the Presbyterian Miniſters: wherein you ſay plainly, that the indeavours of the Presbyterian Miniſters, are the indeavours of the ſecular powers of the world: how groſſe and abſurd is this ignorance? p. 17learn for ſhame to diſtinguiſh better againſt next time, leſt the world hiſſe at you.

Paper. 3ly, You ſay, the ſecular powers raiſe perſecution againſt the godly to death, and baniſhment; witneſſe the indeavours of the Preſbyterian Miniſters.

Anſ. Here again you plainly ſay, that the Presbyterian Miniſters raiſe perſecution againſt the godly. We may here juſtly ſay (with David) we live among men that are ſet on fire, even the ſons of men, whoſe treth are ſpears and arrows, and their tongue a ſharp ſword. Pſal. 57. 4. and 59. 7. Behold, they belch with their mouth, ſwords are in their lips: But we doubt not but our God will deliver us (as he ſaid) from the reproach of them that would ſwallow us up.

Again, I cannot conceive what your meaning ſhould be, except it were the late teſtimonies of the Presbyteriall Miniſters to the Solemne League and Covenant, and to the Truths of Jeſus Chriſt, againſt Errors, Hereſies and Blaſphemies: (your meaning can be nothing but this) Now if you call this an indeavour to perſecute the godly of the Land; you muſt neceſſarily conclude, thoſe that hold errors, hereſies, and blaſphemies to be the godly of the Land. (and if that be your opinion, 'tis moſt abominable to all thoſe that know any thing of God, or of truth) And I tell you farther, that the baniſhing, or putting to death, thoſe who after conviction perſiſt in hereſies and blaſphemies, is no more then the written Word of God allows, and commands (if you be not gotten alreadie above the Word, and ſo lay that by) neither can it be called perſecution no more then the hanging of a thief, robber, or murtherer, by the Laws of the Land, can be ſaid to be perſecution, when the juſt and deſerved puniſhment of their wickedneſſe is inflicted.

Paper. Again you go on in your ſixth exception, and ſay 'tis no new thing for worldly wiſe and ſeeming godly men, to perſecute the Saints and power of godlineſſe; and the very ſame thing is practiſed in our age; and that if men were acquainted with the working of the myſtery of Iniquitie, they would never be ſuch ſlaves to time-ſerving ſelf-ſeeking men, who onelyonly ſeeks their gain from their quarters; and thoſe that will not put into their mouthes, they will raiſe war againſt them; and this you poſitively ſay, doth evidently appear in me in my ſlighting and reproaching thoſe whom I formerly rejoyced in, but now are accounted by me, Sectaries, and troublers of the State, though I have nothing againſt you but the caſe of Daniel, concerning the Law of your God, and will not now beleeve as I beleeve, and put into my mouth to p. 18feed you with untruths; and therefore I now diſ-own you; and on the contrary, own, imbrace, and hugg in my boſome, thoſe openly wicked, and prophane, which formerly I profeſt my ſelf a ſtranger to.

Anſ. Friends, waſt in cold blood? were you in your right ſences? did you not for that preſent lay by that little reaſon, truth, honeſtie, and charitie that you pretend to, when you did ſet your hands to theſe things? did you not forget that of Chriſt: Matth. 12. 36, 37. that for every idle word that men ſhall ſpeak (much more for every lying, reviling, ſlandering word) they ſhall give account thereof in the day of judgement. For by thy words thou ſhalt be juſtified, and by thy words thou ſhalt be condemned. Will you juſtifie theſe words before God or men? or will they not condemne you without repentance? Here you charge me, with perſecuting the Saints, and the power of godlineſſe, that I am a time ſerving ſelf-ſeeking man, who ſeek onelyonly my gain from other mens quarters: that I raiſe war againſt thoſe that will not put into my mouth; that I ſlight, and reproach, and call thoſe Sectaries, whom I formerly rejoyced in, becauſe you will not beleeve as I beleeve, and put into my mouth to feed you with untruths; and that I now hugg and imbrace, the openly prophane,—&c.

Are ye able to make theſe accuſations good againſt me? truly you ſpeak very largely, as if your tongue (that unruly evil member full of deadly poyſon, wherewith you pretend to bleſſe God, and yet do curſe men made after the ſimilitude of God) were your own; and that none could or ſhould controul you.—Had I received ſuch words from openly prophane men, or from profeſt devils, I could have born them better; but to be ſo traduced, by men that would be accounted underſtanding men, men profeſſing conſcience as their rule, yea from profeſt Saints, truly this makes me much more to ſuſpect, and miſtruſt the truth of that you profeſſe, then ever I did before: remembring the words of the Apoſtle, James 3. 12, 13, 14, &c. Can a fountain ſend forth at the ſame p…ace ſweet water and bitter? Can a figtree bear olive berries? or a vine, figs? ſo can no fountain yeeld both ſalt water and freſh. Who is a wiſe man, and indued with knowledge amongſt you? let him ſhew out of a good converſation his works with meekneſſe of wiſdom. But if ye have bitter envying and ſtrife in your hearts, glo…y not, and lye not againſt the truth. This wiſdom deſcendeth not from above, but is earthly, ſenſuall, divelliſh. See alſo Jam. 4. 11, 12.

1. But to anſwer the particulars: Firſt for my perſecuting of the Saints, and the power of godlineſſe; I do here appeal to the Lord Jeſus, who takes all ſuch perſecutions of Saints, as done to himſelf: Act. 9. 5. p. 19In this point (I ſay) I call heaven and earth to witneſſe, and ſhall ſay with David in Pſal. 7. 3. 5. O Lord my God, if I have done this; if there be this iniquity in my hands: Let the enemy perſecute my ſoul, and take it, yea, let him tread down my life upon the earth. And as he in Pſal. 69. 19. Thou Lord haſt known my reproach, and my ſhame, mine adverſaries are all before thee.

2ly, In that you ſay I am a time-ſerver, and ſelf-ſeeker, and that I ſeek onelyonly my gain from other mens quarters, &c. What time-ſerver I am, let the times judge; and for the ſeeking of my ſelf, or my gain from my quarters: I thank the Lord that my rejoycing is this, the teſtimony of my conſcience, that in all quarters (eſpecially to you-wards) I have preached the Goſpel without covetouſneſſe: and the gain that I have ſought for, hath been the gain of ſouls to Jeſus Chriſt, (knowing that this alſo ſhall turn to my gain) In this (I hope) you will allow us to be covetous: and as Paul ſaid to his Theſſalonians, 1. Ep. 2. ch: Being allowed of God to be put in truſt to preach the Goſpel, even ſo we have ſpoken, not as pleaſing men, but God, who tryeth our hearts. Neither at any time uſed we flattering words, (as ye know) nor a cloak of covetouſneſſe (God is witneſſe) neither of men ſought we glory, nor of you, nor yet of others: when we might have been burthenſome as the Miniſters of Chriſt. Yea you your ſelves are witneſſes (and God alſo) that I have both travell'd to, and laboured amongſt you in preaching the Goſpel of God; neither ever yet have I been chargeable to any one of you (to my beſt knowledge and remembrance) no not for a peny, though moſt falſly and impudently you here charge it upon me; And if I had ſought my ſelf, and my own gain, ſo much as you ſpeak of, ſurely I ſhould have ſought me out ſome more charitable quarters, then I ever yet found yours to be: But the Lord forgive you your unthankfulneſſe, returning, and requiting me in this, evil for good.

3ly, In the next place though you cannot but be convinc'd of this in your own conſciences, that you never as yet put any thing into my mouth, yet pray tell me; when or wherein have I endeavoured to raiſe warre againſt you? will this be made good, or muſt I put it into the number of your moſt unchriſtian-like ſlanders?

4ly, Whereas you ſay that I ſlight, and reproach, and diſ-own you, whom I formerly rejoyced in; becauſe you will not beleeve as I beleeve, and put into my mouth to feed you with untruths: I anſwer as Paul ſaid to his Thoſſalonians, 1 Ep. 2 Ch. latter end, that ye were our joy, and our glory, and the crown of our rejoycing, while ye ſeemed to ſtand faſt in the Lord: But ſince you have been ſo fooliſh (as he ſaid to his Galathians, 3. Ch: 1. ver.) to be bewitcht by others not to obey the p. 20truth; you muſt pardon us this wrong if we be in heavineſſe for you: and though we be far from ſlighting or reproaching any (as you falſly object) yet (I ſay again) you muſt pardon us, if we diſ-own you in your errors; which of us it is that hath changed, let the Lord judge betwixt us, whether our doctrine, or your profeſſion and practice, hath been, yea and nay. We dare appeal to the ſame God, and to the Lord Jeſus Chriſt, that the word of the Goſpel which hath been preached among you, by us, was not, is not, yea and nay, but in Chriſt was and is yea.

But farther, you ſay we ſlight and diſ-own you, becauſe you will not beleeve as I beleeve, and put into my mouth to feed you with untruths.

I anſwer. Firſt for your beleeving as I beleeve; for my belief, I ſhall ſay, firſt as Paul, 2 Cor. 10. 7. If any of you truſt to himſelf that he is Chriſts, let him of himſelf think this again, that as he is Chriſts, even ſo are we Chriſts: my belief is in the Lord Jeſus, neither have I ever endeavoured to invite or intice you to any other belief then the faith in Jeſus Chriſt. And whoſoever he be that ſhall preach to you any other Goſpel, or another belief, though he were man, or Angel from heaven, I muſt ſay as Paul, Galat. 1. 8, 9. Let him be accurſed. What other beleef you have lately found out, that you will not beleeve as we beleeve, I know not.

In the next place, for your putting into my mouth, to feed you with untruths.

I call you and all the world to witneſſe againſt me, and to make it to appear to me, what untruth I ever fed you withall: even here in this alſo (I thank my God) I can ſay with the Apoſtle, 2 Cor. 2. 17. We are not as many, which corrupt the Word of God; but as of ſincerity, but as of God, in the fight of God, have we ſpoken in Chriſt. And as he, 4. Chap. 2. We have renounced the hidden things of diſhoneſty, not walking in craftineſſe, nor handling the Word of God deceitfully, but by manifeſtation of the truth, commending our ſelves to every mans conſcience in the ſight of God.

Laſtly, for your putting into my mouth (which you here again ſpeak of) I here again anſwer you, I need no other witneſſe againſt you then your ſelves: I here ask you again, Where, or when any of you, did put any thing into my mouth, though my mouth hath been open to and for your ſouls in preaching the Goſpel of conſolation to you; Though I have ſown unto you ſpirituall things, yet when or where have I ever reaped any of your temporals? Certainly therefore (if you have not put on a whores forehead) you cannot be aſhamed of this your ſo falſe and groundleſſe a reproach, which you ſo often here caſt upon me.

In the laſt place, whereas you charge me with imbracing and hugging p. 21in my boſome, open prophane ones: I deſire you to let me know, who are thoſe open prophane ones whom I do now ſo imbrace and own: I beleeve l muſt ſet this by amongſt the reſt.

Paper. In the next part of your ſixth branch, you ſay, If we were Miniſters of Chriſt, we durſt not give the childrens bread to dogs, much leſſe preſſe others to ſin to partake with ſuch.

A. I wonder that you do not ſet the ſaddle upon the right horſe (as the Proverb is) either ſhew us plainly who does ſo; or elſe confeſſe to your ſhame, that you let fly at all, at randome, and ſpeak more out of malice then knowledge. And ſurely ſuch tongues want bridles: I dare challenge you to make it good againſt any of us, where ever you have known any of us, to give the childrens bread to thoſe whom we have known to be dogs: or where ever we have preſt any to ſin; or to partake with thoſe whom we or they have known to be dogs: ſurely this too, will prove to be another of the ſame, with your former ſlanders.

Paper. In your 7th branch you ſay 'tis your deſire, that wolves may be brought to light, that you may know them and avoid them; but we fear ſome that would be thought true Apoſtles, will prove falſe, and ſo muſt and ought to be avoided, as the moſt deſperate enemies to the truth, and to the profeſſors thereof.

Anſ. In all this we joyn with you, and (never fear it) I will warrant you, that ſome who now appear to you to be true Apoſtles, and are now transformed into the Miniſters of the Goſpel, and Miniſters of See 2 Cor. 10. 13, 15.2 Cor 10:132 Cor 10:15righteouſneſſe, and ſpirituall men; when their vizor is pluckt off, will be ſeen in their colours: God hath promiſed it, and God will perform it, that their folly and their madneſſe ſhall be made known unto all men, and they ſhall proceed no farther. See 2 Tim. 3. 9.

Paper. Here again you ſay, ſome are afraid to come to light, and therefore have gained Orders from Authoritie, that none muſt queſtion what they ſay in publick; and be ſure they will never meet in private: ſo they will avoid all occaſion of being queſtioned. Therefore let all the wiſe in heart judge who are afraid of light.

Anſ. I anſwer. That we are ſo far from avoiding the light, that we creep not into houſes, we preach not what we deliver in corners and Conventicles, but in publick Congregations And that there hath been any order gained from Authority, that none ſhould queſtion what we ſay in publick, is falſe: who gain'd that Order (that was put out by Authoritie) I know not; but (if I do not miſ-underſtand it) it onelyonly prohibits that diſorder, which (for all your large libertie afterward p. 22mentioned in your Paper) you would ſcarce admit of in your private meetings, viz: that in the midſt of your exerciſe, you ſhould be diſturbed and call'd out upon, to anſwer every queſtion, which every piece of ignorance in the company or congregation ſhould propoſe: but the exerciſe once ended; as our doors (as well as yours) are open to all comers; ſo if any man hath any thing to ſpeak, he may ſpeak without fear of being queſtion'd by the Magiſtrate. And as you ſay you have often heard your Teachers deſire, ſo I ſay (for my own part) I deſired it my ſelf in publick, but the laſt time (ſave one) that I p…eached to you (& ſo have others before me there) that if any man hath any thing to ſay againſt what we deliver, they ſhould ſtand forth and freely ſpeak, (onelyonly deſiring (as you ſay) that they ſhould ſpeak in order, in love, for edification, and one by one) or that you would come to us before we went out of your Town to be reſolved, which none of you did, (though intreated in a Chriſtian-like way to do it) but when we were gone from you, (and as you thought out of the hearing of it) then with moſt black and diſhoneſt mouthes, and tongues full of lying and bitterneſſe, have gone from place to place, and traduced us and our doctrine; let the Lord judge, and let your own conſciences ſpeak, whether this be not ſo; and if it be truth, we ſay with you, let the wiſe in heart judge who are afraid of light.

Paper. For your 8th branch: wherein you ſay you diſlike our Babyloniſh confuſion in making no difference twixt the Church and the world, but jumbling them together, contrary to the minde of God in Scriptures, and the clear practice of Chriſt and his Apoſtles.

Anſ. In a part of this Anſwer before, I have ſhewed you what difference there is twixt the Church and the world; in ſhewing you according to the minde of God in Scriptures, and the clear minde of Chriſt and his Apoſtles, what doth conſtitute a true viſible Church: and if you would have had a larger Anſwer to this ſilly objection and diſlike, you ſhould have ſhew'd us wherein our jumbling them together doth appear, and I doubt not, but we ſhould have given ſatisfaction, at leaſt a reaſonable anſwer, though perhaps that would not have ſatisfied you.

Paper. Your ninth diſlike is this; That we cry out againſt, and accuſe perſons as overthrowers of publick Ordinances; and neither declare the perſons who, nor the manner how.

Anſ. Did not our Saviour Chriſt tell the diſciples when they were together, that one of them ſhould betray him; yet he did not tell them preſently which, nor the manner how; he did not tell them that 'twas p. 23Judas by name: however (when they asked him) he gave them a ſigne by which they ſhould know him, as well as if he had named him, viz: He to whom I ſhall give a ſop, &c. So here I ſhall not give you the very names, as to ſay 'tis you Thomas, or you William, or you Giles, or you Roger, &c. yet I will give you a ſigne in a word or two, by which you ſhall know the very men.—Thus then: They that ſeparate from, and they that refuſe, and do lay down the practiſe of publick ordinances, and do cry out againſt them. Theſe are …hey that do what they can to overthrow publick ordinances: In theſe few words now, ye have the perſons who, and the manner how: I think now I need not give you the perſons by name; by this that I have ſaid, (if the Lord help you to try your ſelves and your brethren by rhis note) you will quickly ſee who are the men.

Paper. In your next place you ſay, That it hath been offered by ſome of you, to Indicate the true uſe of ordinances, according to Primitive Inſtitution, yet you could not prevail with our partie to give a meeting to try it by the light of Gods Word; and now again you offer it to me, that when I ſhall appoint a time you will chearfully give a meeting to clear the truth from all falſe practiſes and innovations of men.

Anſ. To this I anſwer. That except you were men of more moderation and meekneſſe, then your Paper ſhews you to be, except you knew better how to bridle your tongues, and to over-rule your mad paſſions, to which you have ſo freely given the reins in your Paper) I cannot blame any man for refuſing to give you a meeting. Surely it is to be feared, that inſtead of clearing up the truth, ſuch meeting (with ſuch men) might prove to be but juſt ſuch as Paul commands Timothy and Titus to avoid and ſhun, viz: Vain bablings, which will increaſe to more ungodlineſſe, a ſtriving about words to no profit, but to the ſubverting of the hearers. And again he cals them fooliſh queſtions, contentions, and ſtrivings, which are unprofitable and vain. See 2 Tim. 2. 14, and 16. v. Titus 3. 9.

But thus far I entertain your proffer (becauſe you ſhall not think that we are afraid of you) that if any among you, or any one for you, (for as for your own parts (poore men) I know you are no way able to undertake ſuch a work) but if any of your new inſpired Rabbles, for you, I ſay, ſhall undertake under his hand and yours, to ſet down what that truth of doctrine and practice is which you hold, profeſſe, and practiſe in ordinances; I do here promiſe you that I ſhall be readie to entertain it, and to give you in, either my aſſent to it, or my diſſent p. 24from it; as I ſhall finde it upon faithfull tryall by the Word, to be either diſſonant from, or agreeing to the Primitive Inſtitution of Chriſt and his Apoſtles. Or if you can charge us with any falſe practiſes, or Innovations which we allow of, let me hear what they are, and I ſhall give you in my Anſwer. And I take this to be far the better way (ſo you will do it without railing and ſcolding, and as you ſay in Scripture language) to ſatisfie and reſolve both your ſelves and us in the truth; for words ſpoken (you know) are apt to be forgotten, and oft miſerably miſtaken; but words written, remain, and you may all take copies of them, and lay them by you) to pawſe upon; and I ſhall give you a fair occaſion of this in my Anſwer to the laſt clauſe of this your ninth branch. Wherein you ſay:

Paper. You deſire to be aſhamed and confounded, for your former evill practice, and for all your former abominations, in the abuſe of the precious ordinances of Jeſus Chriſt, not onelyonly as you were Atheiſticall, Papiſtical, Prelatical, but alſo Presbyterial in Doctrine and Diſcipline, contrary to Chriſts inſtitution.

Anſ. To this I anſwer. If you have any ſhame in you, you never had more cauſe to be aſhamed and confounded in your ſelves; then for ſome things in this your profeſſion: ſome things (I ſay) which are abominable, and they are theſe which follow.

Here firſt you plainly confeſſe, that you have been Atheiſticall, Papiſticall, Prelaticall, and Presbyteriall already, in your Doctrine and Diſcipline: truly 'tis no marvell to ſee you ſuch whiſtlers, and to ſee you carried about like empty clouds, with every winde of new doctrine that you meet with now adayes; if you have paſt through ſo many changes alreadie: let's view them a little.

Firſt, you ſay, you have been Atheiſticall in Doctrine and Diſcipline, here's a riddle indeed (as you ſay) needs interpreting: poore men! let me ask you again, did you know what you did when you ſet your hands to this? how miſerably have you been betrayed to diſcover your ignorance, and to lay your ſelves naked thus to the view of all? Pray tell me, what doctrine and diſcipline have Atheiſts? do you ſee your ſimplicitie? Atheiſts are ſuch as live without a God, and do acknowledge none; ſuch are ſaid to be Atheiſts: Now I ſay, what doctrine or diſcipline is there amongſt Atheiſts? I think you would be looked upon as admirably inſpired men; men that have deep revelations; if you would ſet out the Atheiſts religion in doctrine and diſcipline: In theſe times wherein there are ſo many new ones that are ſprung up; I never p. 25yet heard of this till now from you.

Next, you ſay, you have been Pap…ſticall and Prelaticall; this is not ſo much to be admired, becauſe there have been ſome Papiſts and Prelates that have had their doctrine and diſcipline in England; but I never knew (before your confeſſion here) that Thomas Clutterbuck, Giles Hancox, Thomas Sheapheard, Calcb Self, and thoſe of you whom I know, (for truly I cannot ſay that I know you all, or that I have ever (to my knowledge) ſeen ſome of your faces) I ſay, I never till now knew that you had been Papiſts in doctrine and diſcipline: and I am ſorry to hear it now: and for theſe your abominations, I cannot blame you (nay I ſhall help you what in me lyes) to be aſhamed, and confounde… …n your ſelves for them.

Paper. But laſtly you ſay, you deſire to be aſhamed, and confounded for all your abominations, as you hav… been Presbyteriall in doctrine and diſcipline contrary to the inſtitution of Chriſt Jeſus.

Anſ. To this I anſwer, (and here I ſhall give you that occaſion which I but now promiſed you) firſt what your abominations have been, whileſt you profeſt and lived under Presbyteriall doctrine and diſcipline I know not: 'tis like, very many; be aſhamed and confounded, and repent quickly for them.—But for the Doctrine and diſcipline Presbyteriall in it ſelf, that which the Orthodox Presbyterian Miniſters of this Kingdom, do now profeſſe, and deſire to practice: I do here undertake to make it good to you, and to him that ſhall undertake it for you; That it is according to the Inſtitution of Jeſus Chriſt and his Apoſtles; this I ſhall do when I hear what you have to ſay againſt it: and if you have any ſhame left in you (which you profeſſe to have) I hope the Lord will then help you to be aſhamed of, and confounded for all the abominable ſlanders you have caſt upon it, and to be aſhamed and confounded in your ſelves for that you have ſo cauſleſly and ſinfully ſeparated from it, and have fallen from the Ordinances and Inſtitutions of Chriſt, to the practiſe of thoſe new ones that never had ground or being, other then in the vain and fooliſh ſpeculations of ſome newly inſpired men.

Paper. As for your tenth branch, which is nothing but ſinfull raylings, and revilings; I ſhall not look upon that as worth times and words to anſwer. You call us, men of blinde zeal, you ſay we are deſperate and damnable in opinions and practiſes; That moſt of our own cloth and calling are Malignants, Prelaticall, drunkards, ſwearers, lyars, hypocrites, that we are moſt againſt thoſe that are moſt conſcientious; and p. 26greateſt friends to prophaneneſſe, and prophane ones, &c. a roll of Shemei's and Rabſhekah's language: the Lord help you to ſee your wickedneſſe in it, and to repent, that your iniquity may be pardoned, and forgiven by the Lord, for my part I forgive you freely.

Anſ. I ſhall onelyonly ask you, how you would take it to have your Argument turned upon you? Thus: Some new Lights, Separatiſts, and Independents are raylers, revilers, ſlanderers, ſwearers, drunkards, lyars, follow all abominations; if one ſhould ſay, ſuch are ſome of you, therefore you are all ſuch, and to be condemned for ſuch; how would you like the concluſion? Now remember Chriſts rule; Whatſoever you would that men ſhould do unto you, even ſo do you unto them: for this is the Law and the Prophets.

OnelyOnly I ſhall ſpeak one word to that, which you call to witneſſe ſome of us to be lyars openly in Pulpits; becauſe that will turn the lye upon your ſelves. That is Dry Baptiſme: that was once publickly mentioned in a Pulpit, to be amongſt you. Now pray tell me (if you may not give it that name) what name do you give to this ordinance practiſed amongſt you? inſtead of baptizing an Infant, to pray over it onelyonly, and to give it a name without the uſe of any water, either by dipping or ſprinkling, tell me (I ſay) I ſhall be glad to be informed by you, what do you call this ordinance? where is your ground for it? your primitive inſtitution which you profeſſe to ſtick to? Is this orderly or diſorderly walking, I dare be ſo bold to ſay, that this hath no ground in Scripture either from rule or practice, precept or preſident, from Chriſt or his Apoſtles; nor in any of the Churches of Chriſt, till theſe late times, which every day (like Africa) bring forth ſome new Monſter: yet that this hath been lately practiſed amongſt you, will be made good to your faces, by thoſe who were eye and ear witneſſes: and therefore you need not to take ſo much ſnuff at this.

Paper. In your 11^th. place you ſay, you cannot but diſlike our diſowning of the Saints meeting to communicate to each other of the things of God, being as clear a command of Chriſts under the Goſpel, as any other: but (you ſay) we diſcountenance the practice, that we may keep men in ignorance, &c.

Anſ. Here's another groſſe ſlander: when will this mouth of lyes be ſtopped? did you ever hear any of us diſlike or diſown the meeting of Saints, to communicate to each other the things of God? when or where did we ever diſcountenance ſuch a practice? who **See I am. 4, 11, 12.are you that you dare judge other men thus? as to ſay it is our endeavour and practice, p. 27to keep men in ignorance and blindneſſe, can you anſwer this to God? The Lord will one day judge you for this judging, and you will have the ſame meaſure meted to you: are you the men that call your meetings the meetings of Saints? look upon every branch of your rayling Paper, and deal truly with your own ſouls, judge your ſelves, that ye may not be condemned; doth any part of it ſavour of a Saints ſpirit, or of the things of God? if this be Saintſhip, the Devil is a Saint, he is a lyar, a rayler, a falſe accuſer, the accuſer of the brethren; and whether there be not much of theſe things in your invective, I leave it to God, and to the world to judge; ye make it appear to the world in it, what ſpirit ye are of, and what Saints ye are.

Again, for the meeting of Saints, for thoſe ends you ſpeak of, I here tell you again, that we do own it, countenance it, exhort to it, commend it, practiſe it; but what we diſlike, and muſt diſown, and diſcourage our people from, that I likewiſe tell you, viz: The following after thoſe, who (having a form of godlineſſe) creep into houſes, and lead captive ſilly women, laden with ſins, and led away with divers luſts. 2 Tim. 3. 5, 6. Again, we call to them to mark thoſe which cauſe diviſions and offences, contrary to the Doctrine which they have learned, and to avoid them. For they that are ſuch, ſerve not the Lord Jeſus, but their own bellies, and by good words, and fair ſpeeches, deceive the hearts of the ſimple. Rom. 16. 17, 18. Again, we call to them to remember Chriſts words, and to take his counſell, If any man ſhall come unto you, and ſay, Lo here is Chriſt, or there: beleeve it not. For there ſhall ariſe falſe Chriſts, and falſe Prophets, and ſhall ſhew great ſignes, and wonders, in ſo much that if it were poſſible, they ſhall deceive the very elect. Wherefore, if they ſhall ſay unto you, Behold, he is in the deſart, go not forth: Behold, he is in the ſecret chambers, beleeve it not. Matth. 24. 23, 24. 26. We call to our people to remember the Apoſtle Peters words, who tels us, that as there were falſe Prophets amongſt the Jews, there ſhall be falſe teachers amongſt us, which ſhall bring in damnable hereſies, that many ſhall follow their pernicious wayes; by reaſon of whom the way of truth ſhall be evill ſpoken of: And through covetouſneſſe ſhall they with feigned words make merchandiſe of you; Theſe he deſcribes to be ſuch as deſpiſe government. Proſumptu us are they, ſelf-willed, they are not afraid to ſpeak evill of dignities. 2 Pet. 2. 1, 2, 3, and 10. verſes. Again, we deſire them to remember the counſell and direction of St. Jude, who exhorts the Saints to contend earneſtly for the faith, that was once de…ivered to the Saints. For (he ſaith) there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation. He likewiſe does deſcribe them to be men that deſpiſe dominion, and ſpeak evill of dignities; that p. 28they are wanding ſtarres, that they are mockers: and theſe are they (ſaith he) that ſeparate themſelves; ſenſuall, having not the Spirit. If you call this a diſowning of the Saints meetings, to communicate to each other the things of God, a diſcouraging of others from them, and diſcountenancing of Saints practiſe, we leave it to God, Angels and men, to judge betwixt you and us. And truly ſeeing theſe are thoſe laſt times, in which there are many Antichriſts abroad, as St. John, 1 Ep: 2. Ch: 18. I know not any counſell that can be more ſeaſonable to you your ſelves then this, if the Lord would give you hearts to receive and embrace it.

Your 12th. branch is very large, a great deal of Riffraff raked up together to make one dunghill: much of the ſame ſtuffe that hath been ſpoken to before; the fruits of that ſpirit that reigns in the Saints of theſe times: I ſhall paſſe by, and turn over (as I promiſed you) all your raylings and revilings, and ſhall endeavour to anſwer a…l that deſerves an Anſwer.

Paper. In the beginning, you cannot but wonder, you ſay, at our contradictions, in that we would make the world beleeve, that we are like to ſuffer the loſſe of all, and to be brought to priſons, nay ſtakes, for our conſciences, by the Sectaries; and yet condemne them at the ſame time, for endeavouring a prodigious tolleration of all Religions: what a ſtrange contradiction is here (ſay you.)

Anſ. Have ye not read the ſtory in 1 King. 12. 13. how Jeroboam ſuffered all the people of Iſrael to go a whoring after the Calves which he erected at Dan and Bethel; and that when the man of God came out of Judah to cry againſt his Altar upon which he offered to his Calves, Jeroboam ſtretched out his hand againſt him, and cryed out, Lay hold on him.

We need not uſe many arguments to make the world beleeve, that we are like to ſuffer the loſſe of all, to be brought to Priſons, and Stakes, and that for our conſciences: The world ſees it ſufficiently; that ſome of us have already been brought to priſons, and ſome are now in priſon; (and this not without loſſe) and all have been threatned, (if not with ſtakes) yet with as cruell deaths, and all this onelyonly for our conſciences.

Again on the other fide, that there is a Tolleration of all Religions endeavoured, Heaven and Earth do ſee; and ſurely this is prodigious, and we may here cry out, as the Lord by the mouth of the Prophet Jerem. 2. 12. Be aſtoniſhed, Oye heavens, at this, and be ye horribly afraid, be ye very deſolate, ſaith the Lord. Now if you will wonder; wonder not that we p. 29ſpeak of ſuch contradictions, when ye ſee ſuch contradictions acted: wonder at theſe things.

Paper. But you undertake in the next place to juſtifie theſe proceedings, where you poſitively ſay, that we are (indeed) of no religion, and ſo not to be tollerated by them.

Anſ. Doth this ſound like the charity of Saints? you are of no Religion; let me a little look upon your names that have ſubſcribed this: Thomas Clutterbuck, William Burge, Giles Handcox, Thomas Sheapheard, Caleb Self, &c.—one while you ſay we are Antichriſtian, here we are of no Religion: neither we nor our people, nor our Churches can in this eſtate be judged to be ſo much as Chriſtians. What can any Devill in Hell ſay worſe againſt us then this? if we denyed the true God, and whom he hath ſent Jeſus Chriſt, if we denied every Article of the Chriſtian Faith; if we were the moſt damned Hereticks under Heaven, what could you ſay more of us then this, that we are indeed of no Religion? you Thomas, or William, or Giles, will you make this good to any one of us, that we are of no Religion? Certainly this uncharitableneſſe is above all example monſtrous: Calumnies invented by Pagans againſt Chriſtians have not been ſo horrible: It could hardly have been imagined, that the Devil himſelf, had been able to have led any reaſonable creatures, into ſuch an exceſſe of impudency and ſlander, unto ſuch unchriſtian-like reproaches; yet theſe men would fain be accounted, The Saints. Well, take heed leſt while you run on in theſe wayes, you hear old Jacobs words; Curſed be their wrath, for it was feirce; and their rage, for it was cruell.

Paper. Again, you are of no Religion (which indeed is true.)

Anſ. Freinds; have ye not heard of, nor read the ſtories of John of Leyden, Kinpperdollin, and David George? Thoſe famous (or rather infamous) Anabaptiſts, and of the pranks they play'd in Germany: and whither the Lord ſuffered Satan to lead thoſe proud hypocrites; who in their own eyes were ſuch holy Saints, as they could not but (in the tenderneſſe of their conſciences) ſeparate from the beſt reformed Churches of Chriſt (as being of no Religion) how they apoſtatized from that religion, and ſervice, which the Scripture preſcribed, how they did put away baptiſme, the Lords Supper, and the preaching of the Word; and perſwaded many poore ignorant people, to follow their pernicious wayes, to their deſtruction, drawing them along after the directions of theſe new Prophets? have ye not heard of theſe things? whether or no the ſame ſpirit which was the author of that Anabaptiſme (and under p. 30that of all other their prodigious and horrible impieties in Germany) doth not now make his appearance in England, and walk amongſt us, I leave to all to judge, who have but half an eye open, and are any whit acquainted with thoſe ſtories:—out of pitie and compaſſion, and meer love to your ſouls, the Lord knows) I beg and pray for you, that you be not taken captive in thoſe ſnares.

Paper. Again you are of no Religion (which indeed is true.)

Anſ. Of no Religion? we acknowledge the onelyonly true God, Father, Son, and holy Ghoſt, for our God, and he hath acknowledged us to be his people, he hath taken us into Covenant with him; we beleeve that he hath given his Son Jeſus Chriſt to dye for our ſins, and that he is riſen again for our juſtification; we enjoy union and communion with him in grace here, being ſpiritually, and myſtically (yet really and inſeparably) joyned to Chriſt as our Head and Husband; we pertake of the virtue of his mediation, in our juſtification, adoption, ſanctification, we live in expectation of everlaſting communion, with our head Chriſt Jeſus, in that glory of heaven, the firſt fruits of which glory with Chriſt, is communicated to us in this life, as we are members of him, our head, and ſo in him are intereſſed in that glory which he is fully poſſeſt of; And as an earneſt thereof, we enjoy the ſence of Gods love, peace of conſcience, joy in the holy Ghoſt, and hope of glory: and whileſt we continue here in this life, in the communion of Saints, the Lord hath given us the preſence, the help, and ſupport of his own Spirit, to teach, guide, direct and enable us to, and to ſupport us in his worſhip, fear and ſervice, which we deſire and endeavour to perform, according to that rule which he hath given us for our faith and obedience in his holy Word.

All this, and yet of no Religion? if you have apoſtatized from this, I would fain know, what new religion you have found out; what God ye acknowledge, and after what way, and in what manner ye do worſhip: you tell me ſomething in the following part of this branch of your Paper, that after that way which we call hereſie, you ſo worſhip the God of your fathers; you have been lately taught to ſay this in a Sermon of your new Paſtors; I ſee you can remember the text. But I tell you (and will make it good to you) that if you worſhip the God of your fathers after that way which we call hereſie, your worſhip is incenſe in the devils noſtrils, and an abomination to the Lord. And this I doubt not but you will be convinc'd of anon, when I come to ſhew you what way 'tis that we call hereſie.

p. 31Pray be ſo charitable for the time to come, as to think, that we are of ſome religion; though (it may be) not of yours.

Paper. You ſay in the next place, that we are a hodg-podge made up of all like the Turks Alcoran, of Heatheniſme in permitting meer Atheiſts and prophane ones to be members of our Church, and partakers of our Seals in worſhip, of Jewiſh Tithes and oblations, of Popiſh ordination and ceremonies, of Epiſcopall pomp, pride, and avarice, &c.

Anſ. What can you leave off ſo ſoon? is this all? have ye no more? 'tis wonder, but let's ſee what all this out-cry is for.

Firſt, we are a meer hodge-podge; I would that you who pretend ſo to excell in Saint-ſhip and the Spirit, would but once diſcover, and manifeſt thus much, that ye had learn'd common civility, and how to give ſome civill language.

In what are we an hodge-podge? you ſay we admit of heathens, and prophane ones, to be members of our Church, and partakers of the Seals of our worſhip.—Truly no other Heathens, nor prophane ones, then ſuch as you your ſelves are: I know of no Atheiſts, nor Heathens, that have been admitted members (as Atheiſts and Heathens) to any of our Churches, or any Church in Chriſtendome: it may be that ſome of you that charge us with this have been travellers, and ſo may lye by authoritie, (according to the Proverb) pray tell me, let's be informed by you a little, where, or in what particular Church of ours have any Atheiſts or Heathens been admitted members, or to either of the Seals? are any admitted to the firſt or ſecond Seal, but ſuch as are born within the line of the Church, of Chriſtian parents, profeſſing faith in Chriſt Jeſus? are any but ſuch admitted (by us) to the firſt Seal? or any but ſuch to the ſecond? Now will you make thoſe, that are born within the line of the viſible Church, and that do profeſſe faith in Chriſt Jeſus to be Heathens and Atheiſts? what Browniſticall, Anabaptiſticall tenets are theſe? wil not all the world that hears of this, hiſſe at your madnes, your ſimplicitie, and non-ſence, and your witleſſe, groundleſſe uncharitable charging and cenſuring of us?

Again, where can you ſhew any meerly prophane ones, who continuing openly ſuch; without profeſſion of godly ſorrow, and deſires of coming to the Lord Jeſus for forgiveneſſe, and for increaſe of grace, that they might be inabled to lead a more holy life for the time to come, that have been admitted by us to the Lords Supper? This is as very a ſlander as all the reſt: and if they do deſire to come in this way, I would fain know of you, where is your warrant, and authoritie from p. 32Scripture to deny them? To ſatisfie you further in this; I long to ſee, where your rule, or your command is from Chriſt, to require ſatisfaction, by convincing Arguments, of the true grace of every Church-member: I am confident of it, that if that were ſtrictly ſtood upon by your new Paſtor, he would have but a thin Church, I am afraid (were an honeſt and ſufficient, impartiall underſtand…ng Ch…iſtian to be Judge of this) the greateſt part of the Ten Subſcribers would be found tardy in this, and ſo not fit to be members, (what ever you lay claim to)—What ever your new guide pretends to, he muſt ſtretch his tender conſcience, in diſpencing with, and in taking many upon charitable ſuppoſitions in this point, or elſe his quarters would quickly grow as cold, and as thin at Cirenceſter, as they have been at other places, and ſo he muſt again turn Traveller, and an Itinerary.

Again, I ſee you do not know (poore men) and therefore I would have you to go to your ſpirituall and gifted man to teach you, what is the nature of a viſible Church; and (leſt he ſhould be ignorant of it) I will give you a hint or two of it: The viſible Church, it is ſuch a body whoſe members are never all gracious (if you will beleeve the Scripture) it is not like the Church inviſible, the Church of the Elect: but it is an Heterogeneous body (do you underſtand that word?) I'le help you, the parts of it are very diſſimular; ſome chaff, ſome corn, ſome wheat, ſome tares, a net of fiſhes good and bad, an houſe wherein are veſſels of honour and diſhonour; a fold of ſheep and goats; a tree of green and withered branches, a table of gueſts ſome with, ſome without a wedding garment: In a word, every viſible Church is a ſociety, wherein many are called, and few are choſen. Except therefore you will alter the nature of all true viſible Churches whereof the Scripture ſpeaks, we muſt grant, and ſo muſt you, that in every viſible Church, there are ſome members which have not true grace. If you have any thing to ſay to this, let me hear your Arguments, and I ſhall anſwer you.

Paper. Your next grounds upon which you ſay we are of no religion, are, becauſe we receive Jewiſh Tithes and Oblations; becauſe of Popiſh ordination and ceremonies, Epiſcopall pomp, pride and avarice.

Anſ. For matter of Tithes you give me large occaſion by and by after, and therefore I will refer that till I come to it there: Though your Paper be full of Tautologies, to ſtuffe up your invective, I ſhall ſhovell up as much of your filth as I can together, into order in my Anſwer.

For Popiſh ordination, if therefore Popiſh becauſe by Biſhops, I have p. 33likewiſe formerly ſaid enough alreadie to ſatisfie reaſonable men, (though perhaps not you) and therefore I ſhall ſay no more of that here neither.

For Popiſh Ceremonies, we renounce them, and are as far as the preciſeſt Anabaptiſt of you all, from tollerating them, either in our ſelves or others, where we may in a lawfull way hinder and remove them—For our Epiſcopall pomp, pride and avarice, which you ſay is in us; I tell you again you will be judging till you are judged, if you leave not the ſooner: The Lord forgive you.

Paper. To paſſe by much of your rubbiſh; the next thing you give me occaſion to take notice of is—your zeal againſt evill in opinion, and practiſe, againſt all humane inventions in the worſhip of God, and for the truth once delivered to the Saints; And here you (very well) put in a parentheſis (ſo far as the Lord ſhall diſcover it to you.)

Anſ. Here I cannot but commend your zealous profeſſion; but withall cannot but tell you plainly, that yet the Lord hath not diſcovered that truth to you which was once delivered to the Saints, or elſe you have ſhut your eyes, that you will not ſee it. For were your eyes open, and were you but clear ſighted, you muſt needs fall firſt upon your ſelves if you look diſcerningly into your wayes, and into your judgements, here declared in this your Paper; if you will bring theſe to the Tex…, viz: the written Word, you will finde abundance of evill both of opinion and practice, which tends rather to the ſubverting, then the defending and maintaining of the truth once delivered to the Saints. The Lord diſcover it to you, for men are very blear-ey'd and dim-ſighted when they look upon their own wayes: Solomon tels us that every way of man is right in his own eyes: Prov. 21. 2. Said we not well, thou art a Samaritane, and haſt a devill, ſaid the Jews to Chriſt: but I ſay let you and I lay by our ſelves, and let us bring our wayes and worſhip, our opinions and practiſes to that text in Iſa. 8. 20. To the Law, and to the teſtimonies: and if they ſpeak not according to this word, there is no light in them.

Paper. In the next place you tell me, you are reſolved (the ſame power aſſiſting you) that if I or any other (as we have done) do or ſhall vent any opinion, or hold any practiſe contrary to what is held forth in the Word of God, in the ſimplicitie of its own ſence and ſpirituall meaning, that we ſhall hear of it, &c.

Anſ. I anſwer. Firſt I muſt here reprove you again for a falſhood, and a baſe ſlander, in that you ſay I have vented, and do hold any opinion or practice contrary to what is held forth in the Word: if we vent any p. 34thing (ſay you) as you have done: I challenge you and all the world to make that good; or if you do not, or at leaſt cannot, then be aſhamed and repent, acknowledge your fault, elſe you will be ſeen and known to the world to be ſuch as you are.

Secondly, if when I do vent or hold any ſuch opinion or practice, you will be as good as your word and promiſe; viz. to let me hear of it: I profeſſe ſeriouſly to you, I will thank you for it; but let it be done then in a more civill Chriſtian-like way then this is; leave off rayling and ſlandering, and I ſhall ſay as David, Pſal. 141. 5. Let the righteous ſmite me, and it ſhall be a kindneſſe: and let him reprove me, and it ſhall be an excellent oil, which ſhall not break my head.

In the third place, if any thing be vented contrary to what is held forth in the Word of God, in the ſimplicitie of its own ſence and ſpirituall meaning, then I ſhall hear of it.—

I ſay again I deſire it; But pray tell me, who ſhall be judge of the ſame ſence and ſpirituall meaning of the Word in its ſimplicitie? will you be Judges? Alas you are not fit, you can go no farther then the letter, and where the place requires more then a literall expoſition to ſet forth its meaning, you muſt be at a ſtand: And I am much miſtaken, if your new Paſtor can help you; as ſpirituall a man as you take him to be, I am ſure where you ſtumble upon ſome places, and do venture to give the meaning of them (your Paper ſhews) you ſomtimes miſtake fouly, and do make good that place of the Apoſtle, 2 Pet. 3. 16. where he ſaith, that in the Epiſtles of Paul there be ſome things hard to be underſtood, which they that are unlearned and unſtable, do wreſt, (as they do alſo the other Scriptures) unto their deſtruction. And if you fly to the old ſhift of the new lights of theſe times, and tell us that the Spirit will help you: I anſwer, firſt, 'tis the Spirit of God alone that muſt help you (if any ſpirit) to underſtand it's own ſpirituall meaning; And I muſt plainly tell you, that there be but few of the foot-ſteps of the Spirit of God to be ſeen (in this your Paper) if thoſe who are beſt acquainted with them, were to ſearch for them here.

Again, the Spirit doth not now help by miraculous wayes, (as it hath done) by immediate revelations and infuſions, and by giving men the gifts of tongues, to underſtand all languages, (as in the Apoſtles times) and they that pretend to ſuch things in theſe times, are led along, and ſeduced by a lying ſpirit.

Paper. In the next place: you ſay, you truſt God will give you courage and boldneſſe to maintain the truth, by ſound doctrine; and to p. 35convince all gainſayers (though never ſo ſophiſticall) that ye ſhall not need to uſe (as ſome do) indirect means, as ſtirring up the Magiſtrate againſt them, there being no footſteps, for ſuch practice in the Goſpel to maintain the truth, but is the way of Antichriſt to ſet up his kingdome: Rev. 13. 7. 15, 16. but the Saints overcome the devill and his Inſtruments by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their teſtimony. Revel. 12. 11.

Anſ. I anſwer. Firſt, I know not what courage and boldneſſe God may give you to maintain the truth; but I am ſure Satan hath ſupplyed you with abundance of courage and boldneſſe (even to Impudencie) in ſpeaking evill of the way of truth, and in endeavouring to hold up errors: And what worthy Patrons ſuch as you are, are like to prove your ſelves to Truth, 'tis much to be ſuſpected if one view you well in that ſhape you appear in, in this your Invective.

2ly, Whereas you ſay the Magiſtrate is an indirect means, that there are no footſteps of it in the Goſpel, that 'tis the way of Antichriſt, &c.

I anſwer. It may be you have a means that's more direct in your concelt then by the ſword of the Magiſtrate; though it hath fewer footſteps in the Goſpel, and that is by the Sword of the Souldier.

Paper. But I know you expect I ſhould ſay ſomething here (becauſe you give the occaſion) concerning the power of the Magiſtrate under the Goſpel; The power of the Magiſtrate (in maintaining truth) (you ſay) hath no footſteps in the Goſpel, 'tis an Antichriſtian way:—Did I not tell you in the beginning how exceedingly a carnall heart loves libertie, and freedome? Oh, 'tis a ſweet morſell, how paſſionately do men purſue it? every coercive and vindictive power that would reſtrain it, and puniſh it's wickedneſſe; oh this is an Antichriſtian way. And to prove this, you urge, Rev. 13. 7. 15, 16.

Anſ. To this I anſwer. Now you ſpeak like your ſelves: Heres the pure pute language of all the Anabaptiſts that I ever yet heard or read of, or have ſpoken with.—I doubt not but to make it appear to you, that theſe are onelyonly the fancies and devices of Phanaticall Enthuſiaſts (and not to be deduced from Scriptures) who becauſe they be diſſolute would have no bonds of Laws; becauſe they are Schiſmaticks, would have no diſcipline in the Church; and becauſe they walk inordinately, they would have no coercive power of the Magiſtrate to reſtrain them. This is onelyonly the ſpirit of thoſe Schiſmaticall Teachers, who under a pretence of ſpirituall freedome, will lead you into all carnall libertie, prophaneneſſe, ſacriledge, and faction.—And have they (nor you) p. 36nothing elſe to prove Magiſtracie to be Antichriſtian, and to have no footſteps in the Goſpel, but Rev. 13. 7. 15. 16. Poore men, did not I tell you but now, what miſerable Expoſitors, and applyers, and wreſters of Scripture you were, to your own deſtruction? will you ſee how ridiculous you are in this place, and how ſimply and ſinfully you abuſe Scripture. The text alledged plainly ſhews, that power was given to Antichriſt to wage warre with the Saints, and by his Armies to overcome them; and this you bring to prove, that the Sword of Juſtice in the hand of the Civill Magiſtrate under the Goſpel is Antichriſtian; oh miſerable ignorance and impudence; he that thus teacheth you to underſtand and apply Scriptures, is a blinde leader of the blinde, and (if the Lord open not your eyes the ſooner) you will both fall into the ditch.

Again, you urge, Revel. 12. 11. where the text ſaith, that the Saints overcame Satan by the blood of the Lambe, and the word of their teſtimony: and this you bring to prove, that the Power of the Magiſtrate under the Goſpel in reſtraining and puniſhing errors, and maintaining truth, is an indirect and an Antichriſtian way: may not he that hath but half an eye ſee how groſly abſurd you are in theſe things? The plain meaning of the place is no more then this, That by the death and ſufferings of Jeſus Chriſt (the Lambe of God ſlain) the devill and all his Angels, all the enemies of mans ſalvation, are overcome; and the Saints are ſaid to overcome him by his blood, as they have their garments waſht in the blood of the Lambe, as they are juſtified and ſanctified by his blood, and by his Word; the victory of Chriſt over the devill and his Angels being obtained not in his own name, but for us; we (that beleeve in his blood, and the word of his teſtimony) are ſaid (in him) to have overcome Satan, and his Angels, the enemies of our ſalvation.

Do you ſee now how ſimply you have quoted Scripture here, and how little to your purpoſe? Surely this is no ſmall fin, thus to abuſe and wreſt the Word and the truth of God, to the maintaining of errors; therefore repent for it.

Again you ſay, the power of the Magiſtrate under the Goſpel is an Antichriſtian way,—and you have fairly prov'd it;—Let me tell you, juſt thus did John of Leyden in Munſter, all Power of the Magiſtrate amongſt Chriſtians, was by him and his followers cry'd down as Antichriſtian, and perſecution of tender conſciences; till he himſelf had gained power by his ſeduced ones, to murther and baniſh all the Magiſtrates in Munſter; and John himſelf was got up into the Throne of Soveraignty, made, and proclaimed by them his followers to be King of p. 37the new Jeruſalem in Munſter, where he exerciſed a great deal of moſt barbarous and unheard of cruelty; and then Magiſtracie was no longer Antichriſtian, when the Saints there (as they call'd themſelves) were once become Magiſtrates.

I onelyonly minde you of this ſtory, becauſe the Town and Countrey Note that Giles Hancox one of the Subſcriters hath (ſince this) taken his Oath for Iuſtice of the Peace, and now executes that office in Cirenceſter.ſpeaks it, that ſome of you that have here ſubſcribed Magiſtracie to be Antichriſtian, are deſigned and appointed, and are ready to undertake the office of being Magiſtrates among your neighbours; I hope when you your ſelves come to be Magiſtrates and Juſtices, then Magiſtracie will no longer be accounted Antichriſtian amongſt you, when the Sword is once in the Saints hands.

But that I may not diſcourage you in your young undertakings, I will take a little pains to inform your ignorance; and to ſhew you what foot-ſteps the Magiſtrates executing of Juſtice upon tranſgreſſors (both againſt the firſt and ſecond Table) hath in the Goſpel. I hope I ſhall make it appear plainly to you, that 'tis ſo farre from being Antichriſtian, that it is Gods own ordinance, and that under the Goſpel; and you ſhall ſee 'tis onelyonly ignorance, that makes you ſo impudent, as to ſay, that this hath no foot-ſteps in the Goſpel.

In the firſt place; let me tell you, that all the beſt reformed Churches in Chriſtendome, do renounce and deteſt theſe Anabaptiſticall dreams of yours; and moſt harmoniouſly and willingly confeſſe, and acknowledge it, to be Gods will that the world be governed by Laws (by the way remember that the Church is within the Common-wealth;) and God himſelf hath appointed the Civill Magiſtrate, and hath delivered to him, the Sword, to the protection and praiſe of good men; and for puniſhment on the evill. And by this bridle, mens vices and wickedneſſes ſhould be reſtrained, whether committed againſt the firſt or againſt the ſecond Table.

2ly, They confeſſe the Power and Authoritie of Magiſtrates to be the ordinances of God himſelf, appointed, as well to the manifeſtation of his own glory, as to the ſingular profit of mankinde: That by reaſon of the will of God himſelf revealed in his Word, we muſt not onelyonly ſuffer, and be content that they ſhould rule, but alſo to love them, fear them, and withall reverence, and honour, and embrace them as the Embaſſadors and Miniſters of the moſt high God (being in his ſtead, and preferr'd for the good of their Subjects) that we ſhould poure out prayers for them, pay tributes to them; and in all buſineſſes of the Common-wealth (which are not againſt the Word of God) to obey their Laws and Edicts.

p. 383ly, They beleeve alſo, and do willingly acknowledge, that every lawfull Magiſtrate being by God himſelf conſtituted, the keeper and defender of both Tables of the Law, may and ought, firſt and chiefly, to take care of Gods glory, and (according to his place) to preſerve Religion, when pure, and to reſtore it when decayed and corrupted; and to this end, to reſtrain and puniſh, as well Atheiſts, Blaſphemers, Hereticks, and Schiſmaticks, as the violaters of Juſtice and Civill peace.

Now by what ſpirit you are led, to run out of, and to cry down the opinions and practiſes, of all the Churches of Chriſt in this point, as Antichriſtian, every man may judge: And the Lord help you timely to ſee whither you are running headlong; not onelyonly beyond the Churches of Chriſt; but into ab…urdities and extremities, which even the Law of Nature teaches poore Pagans and Heathens to avoid, who have their Governors and government amongſt them: nay even to be more bruitiſh, and more void of underſtanding then the creature, the very beaſts that periſh, for even they too, are taught of nature to obſerve an order amongſt themſelves.—But to ſhew it unto you from Scripture grounds.

Paper. To ſtir up the Magiſtrate againſt thoſe who oppoſe the truth, you ſay is an indirect way, that hath no foot-ſteps in the Goſpel, but is Antichriſtian.

Anſ. Firſt, let me preſent you a glaſſe wherein you may ſee your own faces drawn to the life. In 2 Pet. 2. and St. Jude in his Epiſtle, theſe two (ſpeaking of falſe prophets that were then in thoſe dayes; and foreſhewing what ones ſhould creep into the Church) do ſo deſcribe them that all men may ſee them: They walk (ſaith Peter) after the fleſh, in the luſts of uncleanneſſe, and deſpiſe government and dominion. Preſumptuous are they, ſelf-willed: they are not afraid to ſpeak evill of dignities; Whereas Angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not a ray…ing accuſation againſt them before the Lord. So St. Jude, 8. ver. Theſe filthy dreamers defile the fleſh, deſpiſe dominion, and ſpeak evill of dignities. If you note it; theſe words of theſe Apoſtles do as directly fit the Anabaptiſts of theſe times, as if they had aymed at them.—This by the way.

In the next place: Ple ſhew you out of Scripture, that the office of the Civill Magiſtrate, is ſo far from being Antichriſtian, that it is an office appointed by God himſelf, for the adminiſtration of Juſtice, and preſervation of Peace both in Church and Common-wealth. And that in this way of adminiſtring Juſtice, and preſerving Peace in Church p. 39and State, their authoritie extends, to the puniſhing and reſtraining of Hereticks, Blaſphemers, Schiſmaticks, as well as Murtherers and theeves: Firſt ſee theſe places of Scripture, Exod. 18. 20, 21, 22. 2 Chron. 19. 6. and 11. ver. Prov. 8. 15, 16. Dan. 2. 21. Theſe places will ſhew you ſufficiently, that Magiſtracie is Gods ordinance. If you would have a Goſpel proof, ſee Rom. 13. 6 firſt verſes, where they are call'd ſeverall times, The ordinance of God, and the miniſters of God.

2ly, You ſhall ſee it cleared to you (de fact…) that theſe Magiſtrates have exerciſed their power, in ſuppreſſing errors, hereſies and blaſphemies, which have been contrary to ſound doctrine and true Religion. See 1 King. 15. 13. 2 King. 10. 11, 24. 2 King. 23. 20. 2 Chron. 15. 13.

3ly, You ſhall ſee that they did exerciſe this power (de jure too) upon Gods warrant, and by virtue of his ordination: See Deut. 13. from the 5. to the 10. ver. and 17. Chap. 2, 3, 4, 5, ver. Exod. 22. 20. Levit. 24. 16.