Confutation of the Errors of the Brownists, Treatise · Exception 3
Our People may beaccounted Members of a true viſible CHURCH.
III. EXCEPTION.
THeir third generall exception, is againſt our people, and the private Members of our Aſſemblies, Whom they affirme to be ſuch, as no true Church of God can conſiſt of.
ANSWER.
THe reaſons amongſt us to account of people,Our people (ſay they) are ſuch as cannot be members of a true Church. But we have good reaſons to account our people holy & true Members of the viſible Church. for the members of the true Church are theſe.
Firſt, We know many in whom (we thinke) we doe diſcerne infallible notes, of an unfained converſion.
Secondly, That all that are (by many of our Miniſters) admitted to the Sacrament, and other the priviledges of the Church are ſuch as can give account (in ſome true meaſure) of their faith, and doe not only generally profeſſe obedience; but when they are convinced of any particular ſin, they are alſo willing to profeſſe parricular ſorrow and purpoſe of amendment.
Thirdly, many of thoſe who are wicked and ignorant, wee cannot ſee juſt cauſe to account them wilfully ignorant, nor obſtinately rebellious, and therefore we may lawfully eſteeme them brethren,2 Th…ſ 3, 14, … notwithſtanding their ignorance, and ſin, and this we thinke the Apoſtles owne words will warrant us to doe.
Fourthly, our people in generall profeſſe the true faith, and obedience of Chriſt, which makes them members of the …ole Church, as wee have already proved, and if an being dealt with according to the rule that Chriſt preſcribeth, ſhall bee found wilfull and obſtinate in his ignorance and ſin,…. 18.15, 17 then as he ceaſeth to profeſſe the true faith, and obedience of Chriſt: So may wee by the Lawes of our Land, ceaſe to account him a member of our Church.
The firſt thing they object againſt our people is this,Their firſt reaſon againſt our people, is that th…r can no ſeparation, bee diſcerned amongſt them but the conſiſt of all …o…s. Which reaſon …s f…lſe and inſufficient. That the ignorant and pr…phane multi…u le, as they are confuſedly, by our Baptiſme ma…e member… of our Church, and admitted to all other th priviledges thereof, ſo is there no ſeparation (ſay they) to be obſerved amongſt them in their ordinary converſation: concerning wch matter theſe are their own words in the ninth page of their diſcovery: All the prophane and wicked of the Land, Atheiſts, Papiſts, Anabaptiſts, Heretickes of all ſorts, gluttons, riotous, blaſphemous, &c. and who not, that dwelleth in this land, or is within the Kings-dominions, all without exception, are received into, and nouriſhed in the boſome of this Church, with the Word and Sacraments: none are here refuſed, none are here kept out? Wherunto we anſwer.
Firſt,… …2. …1, …2 53. … 14.4, & 17, 4, 5. That even by the preaching of the Word, that ſeparation which the Scripture ſo much commendeth, is wrought and evidently to be diſcovered amongſt the people of our Land, and very many of our people there be, that doe carefully ſhunne the private familiaritie of all notorious offendors.
Secondly, As all our Miniſters may by Law, ſo many of them doe keepe from the Lords Table every ignorant perſon, and notorious offend or.
Thirdly, Many of our Miniſters doe refuſe to receive ſuch into the Church by Baptiſme, whoſe Parents will not make a confeſſion, of true faith and obedience to Chriſt. Neither doth publike authoritie of Law enforce us to receive any mans Child, againſt whom it may be manifeſtly proved, that he profeſſeth not the true faith.
Fourthly, children may lawfully bee admitted to baptiſme, though both their Parents bee profane, if thoſe who are in the ſtead of Parents to them, doe require baptiſme for them, and give their promiſe to the Church for their religious education, ſeeing they may bee lawfully accounted within Gods covenant, if any of their anceſters, in any Generations were faithfull.aExod. 20.5. Their ſecond Objection againſt our people is that none of them be accounted holy faithfull, becauſe they obey not Chriſt nor practiſe his ordinances. Which is alſo falſe and inſufficient, for firſt themſelves know many of our people to be ſuch as have religiouſly reformed their owne perſons and families, and carefully ſought the reformation of the Church.
The ſecond thing they object againſt our people is, That the beſt of them are without true faith, becauſe they live not in obedience of Chriſt, ſet up among them, nor practiſe his Ordinances? Whereunto wee anſwer.
Firſt, It is a moſt raſh and preſumptuous judgement to denie them amongſt us to bee a faithfull people, of whom theſe our brethren themſelves doe know that they have by the hearing of the Word, beene brought to ſuch a faith, as bath beene effectuall in the Reformation of their lives, becauſe (partly for that they knew it not, and partly for that they are hindred by authoritie) they practiſe not the whole diſcipline of Chriſt; And this raſh judgment which they give of our people, is ſo much the more blame-worthy, becauſe they cannot be ignorant, with what care our people have ſought by all good, and dutifull meanes the Reformation of the Church: And how much they have be wailed and mourned for the want thereof, for which matter alſo, wee referre the Reader to the anſwer, we have above given to their fourth and fifth objections againſt the whole body of our Aſſemblies.
Secondly, Our people deſerve not to be blamed, for that they erect not the diſcipline; for,
Firſt, They eſteeme both our Prince to be a moſt lawfull and a Chriſtian Magiſtrate, and our Miniſters to bee true Miniſters of Chriſt, by whoſe meanes, ſeeing they have received from God, and do ſtill enjoy, not thoſe bleſſings only, that belong to the comfort of this life, but the meanes of eternall happineſſe, and the effectuall aſſurance of it alſo; they are juſtlie afraid, that by enterpriſing a publike Reformation, not only without, but contrary to the direction, and liking of them, who by Gods Word ought to have, if not the only, yet the principall hand, in that worke, they ſhould highly offend God.
2. They cannot finde any warrant in holy Scripture for them that are private Members of the Church, to erect the diſcipline, no not though the Magiſtrate and Miniſters, who ſhould deale in this worke were altogether profane and ungodlie, in deviding the Land of Canaan, which was a type of Heaven, and of the Church under the Goſpell, and in all the Church cauſes, that were dealt in under the government of Ioſua, which was a type of, Chriſts government, neither private perſons, nor the whole multitude, had the managing of matters,Ioſh. 19.51. & 21, 1. & 22, 14 but the people did all by the Elders, and chiefe Fathers, a which alſo was commanded:bNumb. 34.16.28. So in publike Church cauſes under the Goſpell, the Lord hath ordained certaine ſpeciall men choſen out from among the people, by their conſent to rule and governe the reſt.c1 Tim. 5.17. & 4.14
And where God hath ſanctified and ſeparated a ſpeciall ſort of men to any office, or the adminiſtration thereunto belonging, there hath hee reſtrained all others that are not of the ſame ſort, from doing the actions properly belonging to that office, as may well appeare by comparing theſe places of holy Scripture together.dNumbr. 4.15. with the firſt, Chron 13.7, 10 Num. 4.20. with 1 Sam. 6.19. Num. 16.40. & 3.10. Heb. 5.4. with 2 Chron. 26.16, 19. Acts 14.23.
Therefore alſo wee ſee the faithfull, at Liſtra, …conium, and Antiochiah, l ad no Elders, till the Apoſtles by their conſent, ordained them: No more had they at Creta till Ti…us, was ſent to that purpoſe.
To the places of holy Scripture, which they alleadge for this their ſecond Objection againſt our people? we anſwer.
Firſt, That ſome of them,aIer. 31.34. Ezech. 44.8, 9. Cant. 4.7. 1 Pet. 2.9. Acts 15.9. concerne the inviſible Church, and therfore are ignorantly applyed to the deſcription of them that are members of the Church viſible.
As if no meaſure of faith, and holineſſe, were to be allowed by men in the judging of the members of the Church viſible, but that onelyonly which the Lord Himſelfe alloweth of in juding of the elect Members of the viſible Church: Whereas it is evident, that to the making of the Members of the viſible Church, an outward obedience and profeſſion of faith is ſufficient, though there be no inward grace, nor truth in the heart.
Secondly, That ſome of them require indeed, that every Chriſtian ſhould ſeeke the Kingdome of God, and the place where God is worſhipped, according to his Word, ſubmit themſelves to the Yoke of Chriſt, and to obey him in all his Ordinances: but that the people without either the Magiſtrate, or Miniſters helpe, or conſent, ſhould reform the Church, and erect the diſcipline, they are ſo farre from commanding, that if they be well compared, with that wee have above ſaid, they will be found to command the contrarie.
The third thing they object againſt our people, Is, That though ſome of them had once beene faithfull, yet by tollerating in their Aſſemblies, the open prophane, by wanting power to caſt them out, and communicateing with them in their worſhip of God, they are now become not ue Church of Chriſt? Whereunto we anſwer.
Firſt, that the godly which are in our Aſſemblies, do not at all tollerate the wicked profane, but doe as much (as in them lieth) ſhew their diſlike to them, mourning alſo for their profaneneſſe, and for the want of Chriſtian diſcipline, whereby they might be ſeparated: Yea the very Lawes of our Church (as hath beene above ſaid) doe ſeparate from our Aſſemblies the open prophane.
Secondly, admit they did not at all ſhut out the prophanie (either becauſe they know not their right, or for that they are hindred and reſtrained to doe it, or that they ſin in not uſing their right in this caſe) or if it were granted that the people, even the private members of the aſſemblies had full authoritie given them by Chriſt, without the Miniſters or Magiſtrates conſent to caſt out and excommunicate the open profane (the contrary whereof hath been before ſufficiently proved) yet might they as lawfully for want of power, or for ſuch inconveniences tollerate the prophanie amongſt them, and ſo forbeare the execution of their authoritie in this caſe, as either David did ſpare Joab, 2 Sam 3 39. 2. Kings 14 5.or Amaziah thoſe rebels that ſlew his father becauſe they were not ſtrong enough doe juſtice upon them.
Thirdly, the communicating in Gods ſervice with theſe open ſinners,Thirdly, they may be true members of the Church, though they doe communicate in Gods, worſhip with the open profane, as may appeare by the example of the godly that lived under the law. whom the godly in ſome of our aſſemblies are enforced to communicate with, or to want the benefit of Gods publike worſhip is not ſufficient, either to make him profane, or pollute unto them the holy things of God; for proofe whereof we alleadge, Firſt, the examples of the godly that lived under the Ceremoniall law. The Prophets either ſerved not God at all in the Temple, or elſe they joyned in Gods ſervice with many that were notoriouſly ſtained with groſſe ſinnes: for who are they whoſe ſinnes the Prophets ſo mightily cry out upon,(d)Eſay 1.10. Jer. 5.1.9. and 7 8.11. Ezek. 16.4….52. and 22, 25.26. but ſuch as were admitted to the publike worſhip of God.
If the Babylonians and the Caldeans ſhould violently have included themſelves into the Church aſſemblies of Gods people in the time of their captivitie; ſhould the godly Jewes by ſuch preſence of the wicked which they wanted power to hinder, either have beene perſwaded to ceaſe from publike worſhip of God, or have been poluted by it. Was Annah and Simeon, or the bleſſed Virgin and Ioſeph polluted by communicating(a)Luke 2.22.27.36. with the Jewes in their time, when not only the people, but alſo the Prieſts with whom they communicated, were both in doctrine and life ſo much corrupted: Or did this ſtaine all that Juſtice for which Zacharias is ſo commended for that hee kept his courſe, and ſo ſerved in the Temple even in that corrupt age. But what need further examples be brought for the practiſe of the godly that lived under the law, ſeeing it is evident that our Saviour himſelfe was by Circumciſion made a member of that corrupt church of Iury, Luke 2.21.22.and preſented in that temple when hee was an infant, and when hee came to yeares of diſcretion he communicated with them in the publike ſervice of God; for he went with his Parents to the Paſſeover,(d)Luke 2.41. he went to the feaſt of the Tabernacles,(e)Iohn 7 10. his cnſtome was to frequent the Synagogues on the Sabboth day, even before he entred into the Miniſtrie,(f)Luke 4 16. yea he commandeth the people ſo far to hearken unto, and to ſollow the directions of thoſe wicke… Scribes and Phariſees, as they kept themſelves within t e chaire of Moſes, and taught his doctrine(g)M…. 23, 1, 2, ….: But this reaſon taken from the examples of the godly that lived under the law, Henry Barrow in the 39. and 40 pages of his Diſcovery ſeeketh to ſhift off after this manner, viz That nothing then d…filed the godly, if the Prieſt and People with whom they communicated were not Legally and Ceremonially polluted: for the Priests and Eccleſiaſticall State then were not to med ile with the faults of manners, nor to ſeparat… any from the Congregations for morall ſinnes: but it is now under the Goſpel far other wiſe where all things are become new and ſpirituall, and where all manner of knowne ſinnes obst nately held and maintained, have as great force to defile men in the judgement of the Church, and to deſerve ſeperation as legall pollutions, leproſies, running iſſues and other diſeaſes had then.
To which his reply we anſwere that morall tranſgreſſions did defile men, and make them worthy to be ſeparated from Gods publique worſhip then, as well as they doe now; for it is evident by the law that they who had morally offended, were kept from the Congregation till they had profeſſed their repentance, and till attonement had beene made for them.
For to what purpoſe can wee imagine that publike confeſſion bringing a ſin offering,…evit 4 13.14.22 27, and 5.1…. … 6.27. N…n 15.22.25 and ſeeking of attonement to be made by the Prieſt ſhould be enjoyned him that had committed a morall tranſgreſſion, if without the doing of theſe things, he might be ſtill partaker of the publique worſhip, and if theſe things do not import a reſtraint from the publique worſhip, them will it follow, that the morall tranſgreſſour was left free from all cenſure and Eccleſiaſticall puniſhment, notwithſtanding this his open and manifeſt contempt of Gods ordinances: for there is no other cenſure appointed in the whole law for the puniſhment of this contempt, and conſequently the whole worſhip of God did lie open to moſt notorious profanation and confuſion,
Secondly, the man that did morally offend is as well called uncleane by the holy Ghoſt, as he that had tranſgreſſed the Ceremoniall law, and the very ſame word (Tame) that is put for Ceremoniall uncleanneſſe in one place,(b)Le…. 5.2.3. is put for morall uncleanneſſe in another,(c)… …8 23.24.29. and conſequently where it it is ſaid in the book of Chronicles, that by Jehoiadab his appointment,a2 C…n. 23.29. porters were ſet by the gates of the houſe of the Lord, that none that was uncleane in any thing ſhould enter in, it may and ought to be underſtood of the reſtraining of them that were morally, as well as thoſe that were Ceremonially uncleane.
Thirdlie, the Prieſt was commanded to deale with him, that in ſome things ſinned of ignorance againſt the Morrall Law, even in the ſame ſort as he was to deale with him that was legallie polluted through ignorance.bL…vit 5 1. Levit. 6. …7.
Fourthlie, Hee that was privie to himſelfe of Morall tranſgreſſion, was bound in Conſcience to abſtaine from the facrifices and Sacraments though he were not ceremonially polluted:Eſay 1.10, 14. … 7 9.11. … 5 23, 24. And were not the Church Governours, then bound to ſeparate ſuch, when they alſo, and the Congregation were made privie to ſuch tranſgreſſions?
But why ſpend we ſo many words in confuting this moſt abſurd aſſertion, ſeeing themſelves in the 89. and 90. pages of their refutation, affirme, and l…bour to prove, by many teſtimonies, that under the Law many were to bee ſeparated from the Congregation for morall transgreſſio…s.
A ſecond reaſon to prove that the godlie are not polluted,Secondly, Of the godly that lived under the Goſpell. by communicating in the true worſhip of God, with knowne and open ſinners, may bee taken from the example of the godlie that have lived in the Churches under the Goſpell.
The godly that were in the Church of Cor. remained Saints, and faithfull ſtill,(d)1 Cor. 1.2. though they had communicated in Gods worſhip, with the inceſtuous perſon, with ſuch as accounted fornication no ſinne, as came profanely to the Sacrament, as denied the Reſurrection.
The faithfull in Pergamus receive no pollution, from them that lived amongſt them, and joyned with them in Gods worſhip, and yet maintanied the doctrine of Balaam, and of the Nicolaitames, nor they of Thyatira from Jeſ…bell, who was tollerated amongſt them to teach and deceive, and cauſe many to commit fornication amongſt them,Revel. 2.14, 15. Revel. 2.20, and to eate meate ſacrificed to Idoles.
And (to let paſſe all other examples) we would gladly know this of our brethren themſelves, whether if it ſhould ſo fall out in their Aſſemblies (as it may in the moſt perfect Church, that is upon the earth) that ſome one wicked man ſhould remaine uncaſt out, either through the ignorance, or partiallity, or feare of the Church governours, they ſhould for that one mans ſake, deprive themſelves of all the comfort they finde in their meetings; if they would not, why give they not the like liberty to the godly amongſt us, who have, and doe ſtill looke for as much comfort in our Aſſemblies, as they doe in theirs: If they would then who is ſo blinde, as not to ſee that their Congregation is a very Babell, and place full of miſerable confuſion, or ſo mad, as either to jovne himſelfe unto it, or being joyned, to remaine in it, any longer? If they alleadge that the former examples are all unfitly applyed unto our people, for that they were all true Churches, whereunto the godly above named, did joyne themſelves, and therefore were not eaſily to be forſaken, and the worſhip wherein they communicated with the wicked, was the true worſhip of God (whereas neither our Aſſemblies are true Churches, nor our worſhip the true worſhip of God,) or they continued not in this their fault, with that obſtinancie, that we and our people doe?
We anſwer, That they begge that, which is in queſtion between us, for neither doe our people doubt whether it be the true Church, and worſhip of God, wherein they communicate, nor doe they ſee how they have beene convinced of ſinne in this action. And we have alreadie proved at large, both that our Church, is a true Church, and our worſhip the true worſhip of God, and that we cannot juſtlie bee charged with obſtinate continuance, in thoſe wants and corruptions, that are now amongſt us.
To the places of Scripture which they bring againſt our people in this point in the 68. page of their Collection of Letters, and conferences? We anſwer, that they are all moſt unskilfullie applied, for although ſomeaLevit. 20.24. Iohn 15.16. of them doe prove, that Gods people ſhould bee ſeparated from the reſt of the world: SomebEſay 65 11. Ezech. 16.25. of them that they may not offer ſacrifice unto a multitude of Gods, nor joyne with Idolators, neither in the falſe worſhip of God, nor in voluntary leagues, and familiaritie;c2 Cor. 6.14 17 other ſome that the Miniſter muſt deale ſincerely, in the delivery of Gods Meſſage to his people, not mixing any vile opinion, or aſſertion of his owne, with the precious Word of God, nor applying the Word to their humours and likeing, but cauſe them rather to frame, and apply themſelves unto it,dI…r. 15.19. yet doe no one of theſe prove either, that the communicating in the true worſhip of God, with ſome that are prophane, is of force, to cut off a people from the Church, and covenant of God; or that the godly ſhould rather abſtaine from the exerciſe of Gods true worſhip, than uſe them in the company of ſome others that are ungodly.
Or that it is the ſinne of the people, that ſuch are not ſeparated from amongſt them; And ſurely wee cannot but wonder that our brethren doe thus deale with the ſacred Word of God; they uſe to fill the Margents of their bookes with ſuch ſtore of places of Scripture, that the ſimple might thinke that they have even a cloud of witneſſes againſt us; when themſelves could not but know, that the Scripture is by them dragged as it were by violence, to beare witneſſe in a matter, for which they have not one word to ſpeake.