The Divine Right of Church Government and Excommunication, Religious polemic · Chapter 8

The Divine Right of Church Government and Excommunication · Religious polemic · Chapter 8

p. 290CHAP. 8.

Queſt. 4.

How Eraſtus acquitteth himſelfe, in proving that the place Mat. 18. maketh nothing for Excommunication.

ERaſtus. The ſcope of the Lord is to teach how great an evill ſcandallLib. …. c. 2. p. 154. 155. The ſcope and ſenſe of Mat. 18. perverted by Eraſtus.Matt 18 is, and how without offence ſcandals of vveake may be removed, becauſe vvhen vve referre an injury to the judge, the vveak may be ſcandalized: he ſpeaketh not here of great injuries to be removed by Excommunication, but of leſſer, and private ones betvveen brother and brother, before we bring them before heathen judicatures proper to Heathens and Publicans.

Anſ. There is no ſcope of our Saviour to prevent heathen judicatures dreamed of in the Text, nor a ſhadow thereof, Vel per decimam tertiam conſequentiam. 2. He ſpeakes not of ſmall injuries onelyonly. 1. Chriſt muſt not be ſtraitned in his words; he ſpeaks of ſcandals in generall, ver. 7. Woe to the vvorld, becauſe of offences, they be not light that bringeth a woe upon the world. 2. He ſaith p. 291indefinitè, If thy brother ſhall treſpaſſe againſt thee, this is comprehenſive of all offences. 3. Hee ſpeakes of ſuch offences, from which I am to gaine my brother. Verſe 15. But I am to gaine him fromOur Saviour ſpeaks of all, not of private and leſſer ſcandals onelyonly. all, great or ſmall. 4. He ſpeaketh of ſuch as I muſt bring before the Church, in caſe of my brothers obſtinacy; but that is comprehenſive of all, verſe 17. 5. He ſpeaketh of ſuch as are bound in heaven, theſe be great and ſmall, verſe 19. 6. He ſpeakes of ſuch as I muſt forgive, v. 15. but I muſt forgive all to ſeventy ſeven times as Luke 17. 7. He ſpeaketh of ſuch as being perſiſted in, maketh a brother no brother, but as a Heathen and a Publican, but great and publike Scandals rather doe this, then ſmall and private ones.

Eraſtus. The ſenſe is when thy brother, that is, any Iew, doth theePage 26. in Theſ. 41. an injurie, ſtudy to reconcile him to thee thy ſelf alone; if thou ſpeed not ſo, aſſay the ſame before two or three Witneſſes: but if neither ſo thou can free thy ſelf of injurie, tell the Synedrie, that is, tell the Magistrate of thy people, or thy own Religion; but if he will not heare the Magiſtrate, then thou mayeſt without the offence of any, deale againſt him, as a Publican, and aninjurious Heathen, who will acknowledge onelyonly the Roman judicature, and purſue him there.

Anſ. If this be the ſenſe, it is farther from the underſtanding many miles then the words; a common reader may come after, and finde a more native ſenſe. 1. If thy brother offend thee, &c. ſhouldBy the word brother is not meant a Iew onelyonly. not be reſtricted to the Iews onelyonly, nor the Gentiles onelyonly, the Diſciples, for the moſt were Gentiles and neerer Chriſtians then Iewes. 2. Brother is as large as the offender, as thoſe of the Church. 3. As large as the offender, to be gained, Paul was to doe what he could to gaine Iewes and Gentiles, and both may offend. 2. Chriſts ſcope is not ſo much to free the Plaintiffe from injuries, (it is a carnall like gloſſe) as to remove Scandals and Stumbling blocks out of the way of both; and gaine the offenders ſoule. Obſerve that the Expoſition of Eraſtus is ſo wilde, that ſenſe, ſcriptures, or Greeke Authors cannot dream that (let him be as a Heathen) can be in ſenſe all one with this, Purſue him for his injury before the Roman judicatures. But the Expoſition we give according to the word in its firſt notion, doth offer it ſelfe to the underſtanding: For, Let him be to thee, as an Heathen, is, let him be counted as one that is without the Church, and not of the people of God, as the word Heathen is t…en, Levit. 25. 44. 2 King. 17. 8. Pſal. 2. 1. Pſal. 44. 2. p. 292Pſal. 46. 6. Jer. 9. 16. Lam. 1. 3. Ezek. 20. 23. Lam. 1. 10. Act. 4. 27. Cor. 5. 1. Eph. 2. 11. 1 Theſ. 4. 5. 1 Pet. 2. 12. Rev. 11. 12.

3. It will be long, ere Scripture make a parallell to this; Tell the Church, that is, Tell the King, tell the civill judge, that is, tell not the Church; For the Church dealeth with ſpirituall Armour (and the King is not the Church) 2. with no force or violence, but the word and diſcipline; 3. with the mans conſcience, to gain the man to repentance, for ſo all Chriſts three ſteps is to ſave the ſoul and to gain him to repentance.

Eraſtus layes a good Iron club over the offenders ſhoulders, andEraſt. conf. Theſ. l. 2. …. 1. p. 133. Sive facinoroſos facinoris paeniteret, ſive non paeniteret, paena non minuebatur. brings the offender to a Civilian, to whom Chriſt never committed the Goſpel: What? ſhall the juſtice of peace, preach Chriſt to the offender, and wield the rod of Chriſts power out of Zion to him? Is there no way but that to gain a ſoul? 2. He brings him to one who hath no weapon, to a Magiſtrate, but a weapon of ſteel, the ſharp ſword; or 3. will this Magiſtrate not labour to gain him, which clearly is Chriſts intent (O he is greedy in his ſtairs to have the loſt gained, as is ver. 11. 12.) then Chriſt miſſeth his end. But whether the man repent or no (ſaith Eraſtus) the Magiſtrate as ſuch, muſt cudgell the offender. 4. It is admirable that (Let him be to thee as a publican and a Heathen) muſt be a new Judicature, and this is to drive him to Ceſars Tribunall; a ſtrange gloſſe: but 1. This will looſe him out of hand; will Nero and the HeathenL. 2. cap. 2. page 155. judge, Preach him back a ſubmiſſive Lamb to the Iews? But. 2. How do you this Citrà offenſionem, without ſcandalizing? Paul cannot adviſe what Eraſtus doth; he thinks Chriſtians ſhould rather ſuffer injuries, then to implead a brother before a Heathen judge, 1 Cor. 6. Yea, but ere you ſuffer ſo (ſaith Eraſtus) cauſe him to compear, and anſwer the higheſt Heathen judge on earth, to teach him better manners: This is a vindictive-like way: 2. Scandalous heathens will ſay, See how theſe Diſciples of Jeſus agree: 3. Its the higheſt rupture of love, 1 Cor. 6.

Eraſtus. By my expoſition, I do not, as Beza ſaith, take away a brotherly pardoning of all injuries, for though Chriſt teach us how to compoſe and remove only private iniuries piouſly, and without the ſcandalizing of the vveak, it followeth not therefore Chriſt teacheth that only private injuries are to be pardoned, doth Christ teach no other thing? I never thought that only light injuries are to … pardoned: p. 293when either we chide him, or he vvillingly acknovvledge his fault, vve are to pardon him, for if vve must bring a ſmall injury to the Church, far more must vve bring a greater injury.

Anſ. 1. Chriſt would ſo many injuries to be pardoned, as is comprehended in this generall (If thy brother treſpaſſe against thee, rebuke him) but this comprehendeth great injuries, and all injurie…: It being as Erastus ſaith, parallel to Lev. 19. 18. Thou ſhalt not ſuffer ſin in thy Brother. What? muſt we not ſuffer a ſmall ſin inTheſ. 41. p. 46. our Brother, becauſe that were to hate him in our heart? But we may ſuffer great ſins in him, and not rebuke him; yet that ſhould not be hatred of our Brother. 2. Chriſt is not only teaching how to remove ſcandals; but how to remove them by gaining our Brother, even by telling the Church; If need be, that they may labour to gain him alſo, if one brother, and if one with two or three witneſſes cannot gain him to repentance; and ſo he would have all injuries pardoned, out of which we are to gain our brother. 3. It is too narrow a compaſſe, to which Erastus draweth Chriſt in his words, only to remove the ſcandall without offending the weak, to labour to remove only petty ſcandals and not great; yea, and publick to our whole Church: 4. Erastus ſeemeth to imagine, if we draw our brother before the Church, that is, the Civill Magistrate, we do not then forgive him, it being now a great injury, but he is deceived, we are to forgive our brother, and to pray for his forgiveneſſe; even when we make the offence publick, and when he repenteth not, as Chriſt did forgive as man, thoſe that Crucified him, though they did not repent, 1 Pet. 2. 21, 22, 23. Luk. 24. 35, 36, 5. Erastus cannot deny but great injuries ſhould be brought before the Magiſtrate, and a little injury, when an offender refuſeth to obey the Chriſtian Magistrate, muſt be a great injury, which maketh the man, as a heathen and a publican; What is before anſwered, I ſhall not need to trouble the Reader withall to repeat.Pag. 156.

Eraſtus. The reaſon, vvhy Chriſt ſpeaketh here of the tranſaction of private iniuries, is becauſe he speaketh alvvaies in the ſingular numher, if thy brother offend thee, rebuke him betvveen him and thee alone, take tvvo other, foreign, tell thou the Church, Let him be to thee, as a Publican; he that is Excommunicated, is not Excommunicated to one only, but to all the Church.

Anſ. This ſhall make the whole ten Commandments, Exod. 20 p. 294and the whole Goſpel and the profeſſion of it, Rom. 10. 9. which are all ſpoken to one in the ſingular number, often in the ſecond perſon to command private vertues, and forbid private ſins only, and not to be Laws obliging the Church in publick duties, and to eſchew publick ſins.

Eraſtus Anſwereth, Let him be to thee vvho art injured, and to all that are injured, as a Publican, not to the vvhole Church, for there be ſome lawes that agree privatly to the Magiſtrate, and to none other, ſome to Parents, not to children, to Maſters, not ſervants, ſo neither is this precept to all Christians as the Decalogue is, and ſuch like, but only to thoſe that are privately hurt; he ſaith not, rebuke every brother thou meetest with, but the brother that ſins againſt thee. Chriſt ſpeaketh not in the third perſon, nor to the Church, for the Diſciples were not the Synedrie, or that Church.

Anſ. 1. Its moſt falſe, that all the precepts of the Decalogue areChriſts ſpeaking in the ſecond perſon, argueth not the privacy of the ſcandall. all of them ſpoken to all and every man: Honour thy Father and mother that begat thee, is one of the Commandments; and it is not ſpoken to thoſe that are onelyonly Parents themſelves, and have their naturall parents dead: but doth it follow that that Command doth injoyne private obedience, and forbid onelyonly private, not publick diſobedience to naturall Parents: So the ſixth Command ſaith, If thy brother fall in a Lyons den to the hazard of his life, pull him out; if thou cannot reſcue him thy ſelf alone, take three with thee and aſſay it; if thou cannot ſo reſcue him, tell it to twenty: The man is not to reſcue every brother here, but onelyonly the brother that is in danger to be devoured with the Lyon: will any ſay the Law of the ſixth Commandment is given here, to one private man to help another in a private danger? This (rebuke thy brother) is the Law of nature, and it is under this, Levit. 19. 17. Thou ſhalt not hate thy brother in thy heart: And if I rebuke him not for ſinne, any ſinne, and the moſt publick, and ſo moſt offenſive and ſcandalous to many; I hate him; nay, I am not ſo much to rebuke him and gain his ſoul, becauſe the ſin is an injury done to me, as becauſe it is done againſt the Majeſty of God, and deſtructive to the offenders ſoule, and I muſt labour to gaine his ſoule. 2. Erastus dreames that that is a private ſin, which is done to one man, or one ranke of men; to a Magiſtrate, p. 295not a ſubject; he is beguiled, an offence and publick ſtumbling-block may be laid before one man, and it is often a publick ſin. 3. The ſpeaking of it in the ſecond perſon is nothing, for, If thou beleeve thou art ſaved, Rom. 10. 9. is as publike and univerſall, as Iohn 3. 16. Whoſoever beleeveth he is ſaved. The ſecond perſon in all precepts of Law and Goſpel (and this, rebuke an offending brother, is both,) is as broad as the third perſon, and as large in extent, except you ſay the verſe Iohn 3. 16. comprehendeth ſome more beleevers that are ſaved, then Rom. 10. 9. which is againſt ſenſe. 4. Chriſt ought not to have ſpoken to his Diſciples as a Church, becauſe he is directing them as members and parts of a Church, how to deale with an offender: but if he heare not the Church, that is,Page 158. the Chriſtian Magiſtrate, he ſhould die, ſaith Beza. Eraſtus anſwereth, But the Church or Iewiſh Synedrie had not power of life and death now they were under the Roman Empire.

Anſ. Chriſt here then ſheweth not a way to remove Scandals, becauſe the Roman Emperors ſword is not Chriſts Spirituall way, 2 Cor. 10. The weapons of our warfare are not carnall, but mighty through God.

Eraſtus. By this ſame place, I cannot prove there is ſuch a thingPage 156. 157. as Excommunication, what is ſaid to one is ſaid to the whole Church; but it is ſaid to one, that he ſhould forgive an offending brother, ſeventy ſeven times in one day, if he acknowledge his fault; Ergo, there can be no juſt cauſe vvhy the vvhole Church ſhould not doe▪ that vvhichwhich every member is obliged to doe, but your Presbyters vvill puniſh though any one ſhould confeſſe his fault.

Anſ. There is a twofold forgiving, one private, in paſſing theA twofold forgiving. private revenge of the fault and grudge againſt the perſon of the offender: thus the whole argument is granted, for Members and Church both are to pray, Forgive us our ſinnes, as vve forgive them that ſin againſt us: I hope the Synedrie, the Roman Preſident, the Magiſtrate, thus are obliged to forgive thoſe whoſe heads they juſtly take from them, ſo Luke 17. We are to forgive our brother ſeventy ſeven times a day, though he neither repent nor crave pardon, but far more, if he crave pardon. But by this Argument the Chriſtian Magiſtrate ſhould uſe the ſword againſt no bloody Parracide, for he is thus to forgive him, and much more, if he ſay he repenteth. 2. To forgive, is to remit all puniſhment, and ſo what is p. 296ſaid to one Member of the Church, is not ſaid to the whole Church. Private men have not power of Church-puniſhment to forgive it. The Church hath a power limited by Chriſt, that is to forgive and open heaven, in ſo farre as they ſee Chriſt goe before, and ſee the man penitent, and therefore Eraſtus his conſequence is ſhort, it followes not, that the Church ſhould no more excommunicate then one Member. Eraſtus looks farre beſide the booke, in that he thinkes it is all one to forgive an injury, and to remove a ſcandall in the way of Chriſt in labouring to gaine a brother. I may forgive one that offendeth me, and not labour at all to gaine his ſoul.

Eraſtus. We cannot expound foreign againſt thee, againſt theTheſ. 42. page 27. Church, becauſe he ſaith after, tell the Church, then the ſenſe ſhould be, O Church tell the Church.

Anſ. It is not denyed by us, but that the Scandall in the riſe may be private, but Eraſtus will have our Saviour to ſpeake onelyonly of private Scandals. 2. If one Church ſhall offend another, the offended may admoniſh, and if the Church be not gained, the offended Church is to tell more Churches Synodically conveened, as may be gathered from Chriſts Scope, to remove all Scandals between brother and brother, Church and Church.

Eraſtus. Tell him between thee and him, if it be told me conſcio, Page 16.I onelyonly knowing, then he hath ſinned againſt me privately; ſhould I not reprove him before others, if he have ſinned againſt others? but Chriſt will not have me to take any Witneſſes at the firſt.

Anſ. 1. I may tell him between me and him, a publike fault: this proveth onelyonly my admonition to be private, when the fault is known to twenty and ſcandalizeth them, and it proveth not the fault to to be private. But you will ſay, then I muſt take theſe twenty who are offended, no leſſe then I am to goe my ſelfe. I anſwer, not ſo; For 1. I may be ignorant that any knowes it, and I am not to uncover what God hath covered, except it were a ſin that bringeth wrath on the whole Land, as blood, and the Canaanites ſinnes. 2. Though I ſhould know twenty were offended, charity will bid me try, if I onelyonly can gaine him, and then love maketh the worke eaſier to twenty.

Eraſtus. But Matthew and Luke compared together, doe teach that Chriſt ſpeaketh of ſuch ſinnes, as one Brother may pardon another ſeventy ſeven times; and the queſtion of Peter to Chriſt, how oft ſhall p. 297my brother offend, and I forgive him? ſaith that Chriſt ſpeaketh notChriſt ſpeaketh not of ſuch ſins as private men may forgive as Eraſtus dreameth. of the ſinnes, that the Church onelyonly can forgive, for Peter knew well, that he his alone could not forgive theſe ſins, which onelyonly the Church and a multitude can pardon.

Anſ. Though it be true, Matthew and Luke c. 17. ſpeake both of ſcandals and ſcandalous ſins in generall, yet it is evident they ſpeak of two ſorts of ſcandalls; Luke ſpeaketh v. 3. of ſcandals between brother and brother, which may at firſt be taken away by rebukes; but he hath nothing of the Churches part touching theſe. But Matthew hath it at length, chap. 18. ver. 15, 16. 17, 18. 19. 20. The Luke 17. 4. and Matthew more diſtinctly, chap. 18. ver. 21. upon the occaſion of Peters queſtion, reſolveth a caſe of conſcience; how Chriſtians are to paſſe by in love the faults one of another, even to ſeventy times ſeven; they are not ſcandals of one and the ſame nature, as Eraſtus conceiveth: The former is, how we may gain an offending brother from the guilt of active ſcandall in giving offence to us, and that is by free rebuking; and if that gain him not, then by taking witneſſes and rebuking him; and if neither that can do it, by telling the Church, to which Chriſt hath given a more powerfull way, to binde and looſe in earth and heaven, ſaith Matthew: Luke ſpeaketh onelyonly of ſimple rebuking, which tendeth to the other two. The latter way, is how we our ſelves may be freed from paſſive ſcandall, if our brother provoke us ſeven times, or ſeventy ſeven times a day: this muſt be by a private pardoning, and laying aſide all grudge, or hints of revenge toward our brother, and this is a great miſtake in Eraſtus, that he confoundeth thoſe two ſcandals, which by two Evangeliſts are diſtinguiſhed, for Peter upon occaſion of the former Church-ſcandals, propoſeth the ſecond, Mat. 18 21. then came Peter to him, and ſaid, Lord, how often ſhall my brother ſin againſt me, and I forgive him? Peter asketh nothing of gaining the offender, and Chriſt anſwereth nothing of gaining him, having ſatisfied them fully in that before: But Peter came in with a new queſtion, concerning private forgiving. 2. It is evident in the former, that Chriſt ſpeaks not of ſins, that one brother may forgive another; for then it were free to the offended, after two admonitions ineffectuall to gain the offender, to forgive and deſiſt, as he doth in the matter of forgiving: But it is not free to him to deſiſt; if the offender refuſe to be gained, and adde contumacy; p. 298the offended cannot pardon the puniſhment (he ought to remit the private grudge) he is under a command of Chriſt to tell the Church, that is one puniſhment, and if he yet be obſtinate, he is to be reputed as a Heathen and a Publican, that is another puniſhment, which a private man cannot diſpenſe with: 1. He cannot diſpenſe with Chriſts command. 2. He cannot omit all Lawfull means of gaining the ſoul of his brother; for the Law of nature tyeth him to it. Eraſtus will have it a matter of holding off of an injury, only by complaining to the Roman Emperour, a carnall way. Chriſt is on a higher and more ſpirituall ſtrain to gain a ſoul, as is clear, If he hear thee, thou haſt gained thy brother, reſt there: But if he hear thee not, go yet on to gain him: Take with thee two or Chriſts ſcope ſpiritual, Eraſt. his way is carnall.three, then if he had been gained at firſt, a ſecond admonition before two or three were needleſſe. But if yet he be not gained, then go yet on, to ſeek the gaining of his ſoul; and tell the Church, and if the Church cannot gain him: then let him be as a Publican, and caſt out: This is alſo a way of gaining, that his ſpirit may be ſaved, 1 Cor. 5. Therefore this is moſt falſe, that Chriſt ſpeaketh of thoſe ſins which we may forgive: Who can believe that it is credible that our Saviour hath a more noble end, and more excellent then to gain a brothers ſoule? or that he doth teach us in theſe words to diſcend from ſuch a ſpirituall end, as the repentance of an offender, to a far baſer end, to hold off injuries by fleeing to a heathen Iudicature?

Erastus. Chriſt ſpeaks of ſuch ſins, as the offender cannot denyTheſ. 42. pag. 28. before witneſſes. But ſins to be puniſhed by Excommunication, ſo hainous, as deſerveth to be delivered to Satan, he would deny; Ergo, he muſt ſpeak of ſmaller ſins.

Anſ. This is for us, he ſpeaketh of ſuch ſins that the offender will perſiſt in, againſt the Authority of witneſſes, Synedrie, or Church and Magiſtrates, as Eraſtus thinketh while he be as a Profane Heathen; Ergo, he may deny them: 2. If we ſuppoſe three faithfull witneſſes, who have ſeen and heard, ſuch as will teſtifie the ſin before the Church, it is like to be a grievous and publick treſpaſſe. Nor would Chriſt have the Magiſtrate troubled, and the Church offended for ſuch ſins as may fall out, in a brother, ſeven times; yea, ſeventy ſeven times in one day, and may be, by private tranſactions pardoned, as Eraſtus ſaith: How ſhould Eraſtus p. 299his civill throne, ſink under threeſcore and ten ſcandalls in one day?

Erastus. The Church puniſheth not the man for ſuch ſins, but diſmiſſeth him as an injurious perſon.

Anſ. True, if we believe Eraſtus begging the queſtion. 2. To declareLib. 3. c. p. 181. a brother, no brother, but a prophane Heathen, without Chriſt in the world, nad out of the Covenant of Grace, muſt be the higheſt Church-cenſure, & muſt be more highly puniſhed then ſo.

Erastus. I call them light faults only compared with crimes puniſhed by the Law.

Anſ. Such as contumaciouſly defended, makes a man none of Chriſts, but the prophaneſt living; yea, of a believing Jew, an Apoſtate, and a Heathen, deſerveth to be puniſhed by the judge.

Eraſtus. If the offended be willinger to ſuffer the injury then to compeer before a heathen judge, he may.

Anſ. There be no ſmell of an Heathen, or Roman Judge in the Text, Id Eraſtus adjecit de ſuo. 2. It is not free to gain, or not gain, my brothers ſoul, or obey Chriſts command, or not obey it.

Paul, 1 Cor. 6. forbiddeth us to implead our brethren before Heathen Judges; Eraſtus ſaith, Chriſt commandeth the contrary: Eraſtus anſwers, Paul ſaith in theſe that are foreign and foreign in ſmaller matters, as of goods we ſhould not.

Anſ. Its true, Paul giveth inſtance, in thoſe that he calleth things of this life, but in oppoſition to the great matter of Judging the world and Angels: 2. Paul ſaith generally; Ye go to law one vvith another, 1 Cor. 6. 1, 2, 3, 4. And he eſteemeth it ſuch a fault, that he ſaith of it, v. 9. Knovv ye not that the unrighteous ſhall not inherit the Kingdom of God.

Eraſtus. Paul himſelf appealed to a heathen judge Ceſar.

Anſ. True, but not for ſmall offences falling out ſeventy ſeven times a day, for which the Magiſtrate will not puniſh, ſuch as theſe offences be, ſaith Eraſtus, pag. 181. pag. 28. Theſ. 42. But being accuſed of a high crime of life and death. 2. He appealed not from a godly Magiſtracy, ſuch as the Syned…y holdeth forth, but from bloody judges: 3. In matters not with Saints, as 1 Cor. 6. And brethren to whom you are to grant pardons, ſeven, and ſeventy ſeven times a day, but with Blaſphemers, and Murtherers of Chriſt, Act. 18. 6. 1 Theſ. 2. 15.

p. 300Eraſtus. Chriſt teacheth how private iniuries may be removed,Pag. 186. 187. vvithout offence by the Magiſtrate, but not hovv vve may reduce to repentance a brother that giveth ſcandall.

Anſ. Theres not a footſtep of injuries, or Magistrate, or ſword in the Text: 2. ver. 7. And all along he ſpeaketh of ſcandalls that may hinder our entring to heaven, and theſe words; rebuke him, Thou haſt gained thy brother, are clear as the Sun, that he intendeth the offended, in all theſe ſteps, is to gain the ſoul of the offender.

Eraſtus. This is no Argument at all, he ſpeaketh of gaining an offending brother: Ergo, His ſcope is not to repair any civill loſſe: But I pray you, a brother argueth an iniurious man, and convinceth him of his error; hath he not firſt gained him to God, and then to himſelf, vvhile he maketh him of his enemy his friend? can there be a better way of compounding private iniuries? if his conſcience be healed, will he not leave off to be iniurious?

Anſ. I may ſay, as he ſaith to that Apoſtolick ſervant of God, holy Beza, Egregia vero ratiocinatio: The queſtion is now touching the ſcope of Chriſt, Matth. 18. Eraſtus proveth repairing of civill injuries to be Chriſts ſcope, and how proveth he it? Becauſe he that is gained to God by repentance, is a made friend, and vvill leave off to do civill vvrongs: Iuſt as if one ſhould ſay, the ſcope of the holy Ghoſt, in the hiſtory of the Creation, in the two firſt chapters of Geneſis, is to make the Reader a good Philoſopher: Why? becauſe he that underſtandeth the works of Creation, the Heaven, Stars, Sun, Moon, Seas, dry Land, Trees, Herbs, &c. Muſt not this man be an excellent Aſtronomer, Geographer, Phyſiloge, &c? So may he ſay, the ſcope of the holy Ghoſt, in the ten Commandments, is to make a man an excellent Citizen of London, or Paris, Why? how is that the ſcope of the ten Commandments? by Eraſtus his Argument, What better way can there be to make a good ſociall Civilian, then if he be well verſed in the Doctrine of the ten Commandments? ſo may I ſay, the ſcope of Paul in the firſt eleven Chapters of the Epiſtle to the Romanes, is to make a man love his brother, why? Becauſe if he know God, and free juſtification by faith in Chriſt, and our freedom from the Law, and the Doctrine of Election by Free-grace, and the like, he cannot but love his brother▪ Now how can that be Chriſts ſcope, which is neither p. 301ſpoken In terminis? Nor ſo much as inſinuated? Now to gain an offending brother is In terminis ſpoken, ver. 15. Thou haſt gained thy brother: ſo Eraſtus granteth this is Chriſts ſcope, but not his laſt ſcope; and gaining of his ſoul he will have, but a ſcope for a civil end to hold off injuries: How carnall is the gloſ…e of Eraſtus? Now the ſcope of Eraſtus is never ſpoken, never hinted at: Eraſtus cannot deny our ſcope, onelyonly he will not have it the chief ſcope of the words; the beſt ground he hath for his ſcope is that, Tell the Church, is, Tell the Civill Magistrate.

Eraſtus to put a good face on the buſineſſe, ſaith, ſcanning on the Pag. 188.ſenſe of the words, Christ therefore ſaith rebuke him, Matth. 18. That we may underſtand, that he is to be convinced of his error, and iniquity, that he may acknowledge it not onelyonly to us, and before men, but far more to God, and ſo thou hast gained thy brother, and loſt him, if he refuſe to hear thee, that is, If he ſuffer not himſelf to be convinced, and do not acknowledge his fault, he is bound in Heaven, and this is that which I would ſay, this gaining of him is the pardoning (of a civill wrong) that he may be received in friendſhip.

Anſ. If Chriſts inten…ion be, that he may rather acknowledge his fault to God then to the offender, as Eraſtus granteth, then Chriſts ſcope in theſe words, muſt be his ſpirituall gaining to God, not a civil depulſion of a civill wrong, but the former▪ Eraſtus granteth: 2. If ſpirituall gaining be intended in all the ſteps of our Saviours progreſſe, and when this is obtained, the progreſſe doth ceaſe; then means rather croſſing and thwarting that ſcope, then ſuitable ſpiritually thereunto, are not to be attempted: then is not civill depulſion of injuries our Saviours ſcope in the words, but the former is true; Ergo, So is the latter; the Propoſition is evident, from the nature of a ſcope, and end in any ſpeech. I prove the Aſſumption by parts. 1. If rebuking of an offending brother, gain him to repentance, then it is clear the offended man is to reſt there, and not to Tell the Church or Magiſtrate, for he hath obtained even the end, for which Eraſtus contendeth, and who goeth about new means to compaſſe an end already obtained? Chriſt would never command that; yea, when Chriſt ſaith, ver. 16. If he hear not thee, then take with thee one or two more; Ergo, If he had heard him, he was not to take one or two more, and ver. 17. If he ſhould neglect to hear them, he▪ was to tell the Church: Ergo, If he ſhould hear p. 302them, he was gained, and was not to tell the Church; Ergo, ſpirituall gaining muſt be Chriſts ſcope. 2. If to tell the Church, be as Eraſtus dreameth, to tell the Civill Magiſtrate, and then the Roman Emperour; this was no ſuitable mean to gain the mans ſoul; a club was never dreamed of by our Saviour to compaſſe the ſpirituall end, or neereſt ſcope of gaining any to repentance; for the end of the Magiſtrate, as a Magiſtrate, is to bring no man to repentance, but to take avvay evil out of the land, to cauſe Iſrael fear, and do ſo no more, to be an avenger of evil doing, far leſſe is there any ſhadow of reaſon to dream that Chriſt intended by Ceſars, or any Heathen Magiſtrates ſword, to gain an offending brother to repentance, and that he commandeth the offended brother to uſe ſuch a carnal mean ſo unſuitable to ſuch a ſpirituall end. Laſtly, How a private brother cannot be ſaid to binde and looſe, I have cleared already.

Eraſtus. Leaſt theſe words (Let him be to thee as an Heathen) ſhould ſeem to make the offender every way as an Heathen; therefore he addeth a reſtrictive word, (and a Publican) and he addeth the article … common to them both, ſo as he speaketh not of every Heathen and Publican, but of thoſe who were converſant amongſt the Jews, and none of thoſe would anſwer to any Judge, but the Roman Emperour or his deputies, being the ſervants of the Romans, to vex the people of the Jews.

Anſ. Here is a groundleſſe conjecture, for a Publican was large as odious as a Heathen, being a companion to ſinners, and the worſt of the Heathen.

2. How proveth he that foreign, that Heathen is meant of thoſeA Publican moſt odious to the Iews. Heathen only, that were ſervants to the Romans, and would acknowledge no Iudge but Ceſar. 1. The Iews themſelves ſaid, We have no King but Ceſar: 2. The holy Ghoſt doth not reſtrict the Heathen ſo; What warrant hath Eraſtus to be narrower in his gloſſe then the holy Ghoſt is in the Text. If in theſe, (Let him be as an Heathen) the threatning be perpetuall, to remove all ſcandals, to the end of the world; when moſt of the Heathen ſhall not acknowledge the Iudicatures of Heathen Rome, then the word Heathen muſt be as large as all Heathen, all wicked and all ſcandalous men, ſuch as Publicans, and ſo there is no hint at the Heathen Romiſh Iudge here, which is the way of Eraſtus. But the former is true; or this Law of Chriſt is to remove ſcandals amongſt the Diſciples p. 303when the Roman Empire ſhall fall as the Lord in his word hath prophecied. The Scripture ſpeaks not ſo, Mat. 6. 7. Vſe no vain repitition in prayer. foreign, Here is the Article foreign: Can Eraſtus ſay none uſe babling prayers but ſuch heathen as were ſubject to the Roman Empire? Gal. 2. 9. That we ſhould goe foreign, to the Heathen, here is an Article alſo; belike Paul ſhould preach to no Gentiles but thoſe under the Roman Empire: A frothie dream, Gal. 3. 8. The Scripture foreſeeing God would juſtifie foreign, the Gentiles. Here alſo an Article; belike then no Gentiles are juſtified by faith, but theſe that are Officers to the Romans, and vexed the Iewes, Act. 18. 6. Henceforth I will goe foreign, to the Gentiles, Act. 21. 19. Paul told what things the Lord had done by his Miniſtery foreign, amongſt the Heathen, Act. 26. 23. that Chriſt ſhould ſhew light to the people, foreign, and to the Heathen, not the Romiſh heathen onelyonly, except Chriſt be a Saviour to no other Heathen in the world: I need not weary the Reader to reſute theſe unſolid conjectures of Eraſtus.

Eraſtus. Converted Publicans were not ſcandalous, as touchingLib. 3. c. 3. p. 190, 191. their office; Ergo, A publican ſignifieth not one that is none of the Church; Zachens after his converſion remained a Publican.

Anſ. Converted Publicans left not off to be Publicans, but they left off to be ſuch as went under the name of Publicans; that is, abominable Extortioners and grinders of the Poore: and therefore it followes well, that to be as a Publican in the common ſpeech of the Iewes familiar to our Saviour, was to be a wretched godleſſe prophane man, without the Church, and without God and Chriſt in the world, as alſo the Heathen were, Eph. 2. 11, 12. 1 Cor. 5. 1. 1 Pet. 4. 3, 4. Acts 21. 11. Rom. 2. 24 blaſphemers of the Name of God, and 1 Cor. 12. 2. Yee know that yee were Gentiles carried away with dumbe Idols, Eph. 4. 17. That ye walke not as other Gentiles, in the vanity of their minde. 18. Having the underſtanding darkned, being ſtrangers from the life of God: Theſe and many other Scriptures confirmeth me much, that in Chriſts time to be as a Heathen and a Publican, was to be caſt out, whereas the man was once a brother, a beleever, and a member of the Church, and in profeſſion in the covenant of God, and a brother to Peter, Iohn and the Lords Diſciples, and a Chriſtian and profeſſing Saint, as the diſciples of Chriſt were; but now one who is turned out of p. 304that ſociety, and as a Gentile ſerving Satan, walking in the vanity of the minde, as an uncircumciſed man, &c. This is as like Excommunication, as one egge is like another, we have cleare Scripture for this Expoſition, but it is good Eraſtus never gave us one ſyllable of Scripture for his expoſition▪ Nor can it be ſhewen that to be as a Heathen and a Publican by Scripture, or any that ever ſpoke Greeke, is to be in ſubjection to the Roman Empire, or lyable to their lawes, onelyonly we have foreign of Eraſtus for it.

Eraſtus. Who ever by no law of God or command was execrable,Page 191. and could for no juſt cauſe be hated, by no Law of God could bee debarred from the Temple and holy things of God. But ſuch were the Publicans; Ergo,

Anſ. 1. The Major is falſe. The Leper becauſe a Leper was by no Law of God curſed, and execrable, nor was he worthy of hatred, but of pitty; yet was he by an expreſſe Law debarred from the Temple and holy things of God.

2. The Minor is falſe in the ſenſe we contend for, the office of a Publican in abſtracto was not execrable, nor worthy of hatred:P. 192. 193. but the thing ſignified, and that which proverbially went under the name of a Publican amongſt the Iewes, to wit, a profeſſed extortioner, a robber, a grinder of the face of the poore, is both execrable and hatefull: the concluſion in the former ſenſe is granted, and it is nothing againſt us: But in the latter ſenſe, the Aſſumption being falſe, the concluſion followeth not; not to ſay that in ordinary, none was a Publican, but he that was either an heathen, and ſo execrable, or then an Apoſtate wretched leud Iew.

Eraſtus. But I have demonſtrated that no man was debarred from holy things for Morall uncleanneſſe, then neither ſhould a Publican be counted a ſeparated man, will Chriſt command him to be caſt out whom the Iewes could by no Law caſt out?

Anſ. If we give the matter to Eraſtus his word, all he ſayes are demonſtrations: Let the reader read and judge. 2. All his argument here proceedeth on a falſe ground, while he contendeth ſo much to juſtifie Publicans he preſumeth (to be as a Publican) to …e in our ſenſe all one with this, (to be excommunicated.) But 1. we lay the leaſt weight on the word (Publican) and more on this, (to be as an heathen.) 2. We take them not diviſively, but as Chriſt ſpeaketh them, copulatively. We ſay, not to be excommunicated, is p. 305all one, as, let him be as a Publican, but that to be excommunicated, is to be as an Heathen foreign and as a Publican.

Eraſtus. The article … is ſet before both the word (Heathen) and the word (Publican) by the holy Spirit, which ſignifies either the veryPag. 195. 196. nature of the predicate (heathen and Publican) or muſt put a great Emphaſis, and a great edge of difference between the Heathen and Publican here, and in other places, as theſe be not one, Petrus eſt, foreign, et Petrus eſt, foreign (Peter is a man,) and Peter is the man, or that man.) So when we ſay, pleaſure is that good thing, foreign, that chiefe happineſſe; We ſay more then when we ſay pleaſure is good, ſo foreign that Publican muſt ſignifie a Publican, as a Publican, if there be an Emphaſis here common to both the heathen and the Publican, now there can be no other thing in the matter of eſchewing Scandals common to both, but that both acknowledged no other but the Roman Magiſtrate, and therefore, except you make (to be a Publican,) & (to be debarred from the Sacraments) all one; you have not another place in all the New Teſtament for your Excommunication, for no Publican becauſe a Publican, was debarred by Gods Law, Jure divino, from the Sacraments.

Anſ. 2. All the wits on earth cannot make us ſee another place for Eraſtus his explication of this place Matth. 18. and of 1 Cor. 5. But we hope it ſhall appeare we have more from Scripture, to ſay for Excommunication then this one place, or then Eraſtus and all his party can ſay againſt it; here is all that Eraſtus can ſay againſt this ſtrong place, builded upon one Article …; a poore and ignorant Grammattication. 1. He culleth out the word (Publican) of leſſe weight with us, from the word (Heathen) and would prove that no Publican becauſe a Publican, and for the office, was debarred from the Iewiſh Sacraments, which we grant; for no office or place lawfull in it ſelfe, debarred any from▪ Chriſt; Centurions were hatefull to the Iewes, and put over them by the Romans, A publican moſt odious to the Iewes.yet I ſhould conceive the Centurion, whoſe ſervant Chriſt cured, Luke 7. was a Proſelite, and a member of the Iewiſh Church, a lover of the Nation, elſe I ſee not how the Iewes would have accepted that he ſhould build them a Synagogue, as he did v 5. and Publicans might have bin Proſeli…es alſo, but that which was ſignified by a Publican to the Iews, was no leſſe odious then the name of a hangman or a moſt wicked and flagitio…s man, as Matth. 5. 45, p. 30646, 47. and by Chriſt decourted from the number of the children of our heavenly Father: Amongſt the Iews it was counted abomination to eat with Publicans, Matth. 9. 11. Matth. 11. 19. Luk. 7. 34. And when Chriſt ſaith, Matth. 21. 31. of the Rebellious Iews; Verely, I ſay unto you, that foreign, the publicans and harlots ſhall enter into the Kingdom of God before you: He clearly maketh Publicans the wickedſt of men▪ ſhall theſe two, foreign make us think Eraſtus were not dreaming, if he ſhould from theſe words gather that Chriſt, meaneth only of ſuch Publicans and Harlots as acknowledged no other Magiſtrate, but the Roman Magiſtrate? And the Article foreign is doubled in the following verſe alſo. 2. Let us retort this Argument, he that heareth not the admonitions of brethren in ſecret, and of the Church in publick, is to be reputed, not as a Iew, or a brother and member of the Church having right to the holy things of God, but as a Heathen.

Now a Heathen to the Iews was no brother, and had no right to the Sacraments, either of the Iewiſh, or Chriſtian Church, as is clear by the word of God, therfore he that heareth not a brother in ſecret, or the Church in publick, is to be reputed as no brother (I mean in that publick viſible way he once was) but as a Heathen, who hath no right, Iure divino, by Gods Law to the Sacraments. 3. What means all this trifling about the Article:? Say that the Article; ſhould reſtrict Heathens and Publicans, to ſuch and ſuch Heathens and Publicans: I ſhall deny, In eternum, this conſequence, Ergo, He means no other but only ſuch Heathens and Publicans, as did acknowledge no other Magiſtrate, but a Roman Magiſtrate. There is no ſhadow in the Scripture, or any Greek author for the Word, but rather foreign ſignifieth the qualitie and ſpirituall condition of any, eſpecially when Chriſt ſpeaketh of gaining of ſouls, as here, Mat. 18. 15. ſo I am ſure foreign ſignifieth Ioh. 1. 14. Ma…. 6 …0. 1 Pet. 1. 19. ſo doth foreign ſignifie Mat. 6. 5. and elſewhere, enough I deny not but it may ſignifie a civill or naturall ſi…tude, but Chriſt doth here ſpeake of neither, as is cleare. 4. If here a Publican as a Publican be meant, as Eraſtus ſaith; Ergo, All Heathens and all Publicans are here to be underſtood; Ergo, Not theſe only that had this common to them both, to wit, that they both acknowledged no civill Magiſtrate but the Romans, the contrary of which Eraſtus aſſerteth. 5. Yea, this is not emphatick and diſcretive of p. 307Heathen and Publican, Chriſt acknowledged no civill Iudge as King over the Iewes at this time but onelyonly Ceſar, when he ſaid Mat. 22. Give unto Ceſar, the things that are Ceſars, and to God the things that are Gods. And the Iewes themſelves did ſo when they ſaid, We have no King but Ceſar; If then to be as an Heathen and a Publican, bee all one as to acknowledge no King, nor judge but Ceſar, then to be as a Heathen and Publican, muſt be all one with this, to be as Chriſt and the Iewes, for this was common to Heathens, Publicans, Iewes and Chriſt, to acknowledge Ceſar was their onelyonly King and civill Judge. 6. They were the worſt of the Heathens and Publicans, who in a peculiar manner acknowledged no lawfull Iudge but Ceſar, and hated the Iewes, the onelyonly Church of God moſt at this time; Ergo, If the Article foreign inferre that a diſobedient brother is moſt like theſe Heathen, they muſt be greateſt enemies to the Iewes, and ſo remoteſt from Circumciſion, and all right to the holy things of God, being the worſt of the Heathen, and ſo Eraſtus hath gained nothing, but loſt much by his poore Grammattication. Yea, if the offended brother ſhould repute the offender as the worſt of the Heathen, he is to eſteeme him who was once a Member of the Church, in that he was obliged to heare the Church, now as a Heathen, and ſo no brother, no Member of the Church, and here Eraſtus muſt grant that one brother may un-church and Excommunicate any other for diſobedience to the Church, but the Church may not.

Eraſtus. They are as abſurd who ſay, by Publicans here are underſtood wicked men, for then by Heathen muſt be underſtood alſo the wickedeſt of the Heathen, and not all the Heathen dwelling in Judea.

Anſ. I deny the conſequence, for by Publicans are meant men wicked and unpure by converſation, and by Heathen men unclean by condition, becauſe without the Church, and ſtrangers to the Iſrael of God, and without Chriſt and God in the world. 2. We have proved what is meant by a Publican, by evident Scriptures, but that by a Publican is underſtood one who acknowledged no Magiſtrate, but a Roman, no Scripture; no Greeke Author warranteth us to thinke it, never man dreamed it, but Eraſtus.

Eraſtus. The Phariſes hindred not Chriſt and his Apoſtles to come to the Temple.

p. 308Anſ. Chriſt was a born Jew and circumciſed; yea, and what can the Practiſe of the Murtherers of Chriſt prove? It is no Law. But the Romans never ſacrificed in the Temple, but gave Liberty to the Iews to ſerve God, according to his word, and to hear Chriſt preach, and that Chriſt kept the Ceremoniall Law, and taught others, even the cleanſed Leapers ſo to do, Matth. 8. is clear.

Eraſtus. Private men do forgive, ſins. Matth. 18. Luk. 17. Ergo, No private forgiveneſſe, Mat. 18.Matt 18to binde and looſe is not a proper judiciall act of a Court, Matth. 16. Chriſt ſpeaketh not to Peter only, but to all the faithfull, who by teaching one another, may bring one another to acknowledge their ſin, and if they do it they are pardoned, if not, their ſins are bound in Heaven.

Anſ. To theſe the keys are given, who retain and remit ſins, aspag. 198. …ed ſi docendo (pri…atus) aliquem ad duxcrit, ut peccata ſua agnoſcat, et ex certa ſide … Dei be …gnitate propter meritum Chriſti acquieſcat, an non ſolutus erit? Si fruſtrā moneat ac doceat, an non qui…ſic perti…aciter ſalutem re pudiat, … gatus. Eraſtus ſaith: But theſe be ſuch as are ſent of Chriſt, as the Father ſent his ſon, Ioh. 20. 2. Either in this place there is given power to binde and looſe by publick preaching the word, or by ſome other place; but this power to binde and looſe by publick preaching, is only given to Paſtors and Teachers, 1 Cor. 12. 29. Eph. 4. 11. 12. And Eraſtus granteth elſewhere, that every private man by his office cannot preach, nor adminiſter the Sacraments, and by no other place is this given to Paſtors, for I could elude all places, with the like anſwer, and ſay there is a publick Baptizing and Adminiſtration of the Supper, by Miniſters and ſent Paſtors only, and a private alſo performed by private Chriſtians; yea, by a woman, and both are valid in Heaven, and the binding and looſing of both ratified in Heaven. 3. Chriſt ſpake this to the Diſciples, who before were ſent to Preach, and caſt out Devils, Matth. 10. and ſaith not, Whom thou bindes on earth, but in the plurall number, foreign, What things you binde on earth, ſhall be bound in Heaven. Eraſtus ſaith all this upon the fancy, that binding and looſing of the Church, and Peters private forgiving of his brother ſeven times a day muſt be all one, which I do prove in another place to be different, and amongſt other reaſons this is one, becauſe the Church pardoning hath a threefold order: 1. between brother and brother: 2. before two or three: 3. Before the Church, and the end of all is the gaining of the offending brother, Matth. 18, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20. But the private forgiving of a brother, of p. 309which Peter ſpeaketh, Mat. 18. 21, 22, 23. and Luke 17 4, 5. is of an inferiour nature; for I know not, if you can gain a brothers ſoule ſeven times a day, if he but ſay, It repenteth me, Luke 17. 4. or ſeventy ſeven times, Mat. 18. 22. Theſe words, It repenteth me, ſaid ſeventy times a day to the Church cannot ſatisfie to the gaining of a ſoule, whereas to the private remitting of revenge, it were enough. We have the Text to warrant us, that Chriſt ſpa…e to Stewards to whom the keyes are committed. Eraſtus doth but wickedly aſſert, he ſpoke to thoſe who were as Chriſtians in that act, but the Text is cleare he ſpeaketh of binding and looſing ſpiri…ually, whichBinding and looſing proper to Stewards. is nothing to the holding off of a civill injurie, which Eraſtus ſaith is the ſcope of our Saviour here, and how hungry muſt that ſenſe be: That you deal with him as with an Heathen, who acknowledgeth no Iudge, but a Roman judge, is a matter ratified in heaven? 4. A private man is to forgive an injury even though the offender repent not, Mat. 14. 15. Rom. 12. 19, 20. Col. 3. 13. but that pardon cannot be ratified in heaven. 5. See what we have ſaid of binding and looſing before.

Eraſtus. Though Chriſt ſhould ſpeake this onelyonly to Miniſters, yet it followeth not that he ſpeaketh this to other Presbyters.

Anſ. That dependeth on the proving that there be ruling Elders in the Church, which I conceived have proved elſe where, from Rom. 12. 8. 1 Cor. 12. 28. 1 Tim. 5. 17. I conceive when Chriſt ſpake this, there was neither a formed Presbytery, nor a formed Church.

Eraſtus. Chriſt ſaith not, if two or three Presbyters, or two or threePage 199. Miniſters agree in one, I will heare them, but where two or three Chriſtians agree.

Anſ. Nor doe we ſay, that two or three can make an Excommunicating Church, but Chriſt argueth a minore, if the Lord heare two or three on earth, farre more will he heare a Church, and ratifie in heaven what they doe in binding and looſing offenders in Earth; But how ſhall theſe words agree to the interpretation of Eraſtus? for he expoundeth two or three and the whole Church, to be but one Chriſtian Magiſtrate; can he be ſaid to agree to himſelfe? Or can one or two or three meet together in Chriſts Name? And what coherence is here? Two or three conveeneth to pray that he that will not hear the Chriſtian Magiſtrate may be p. 310dealt with as a Heathen man before the Roman judge, how violent and farre off is this gloſſe, and how unſuitable to the Text?

Eraſtus. What other thing is it to a private brother, to gain anotherPage 199. to himſelfe, and to God, then binding and looſing in Heaven?

Anſ. To bring him before the civill Magiſtrate either Chriſtian or Heathen, whoſe intrinſecall end by vertue of their office, is not to gaine, ſoules, but to draw the blood of ill doers, is farre from gaining of Souls.

Eraſtus. Though binding and looſing be judiciall and forinſecall words, they agree not to the Miniſtery onelyonly, but rather to the Magiſtrate, except you ſay that in the time of Chriſt amongſt the Iewes, there was a Church court beſide the Magiſtrates court.

Anſ. That they argue authority judiciall, is proved already by many Scriptures, and judiciall authority Eccleſiaſticall it muſt be, which agreeth to the Church, and it was never heard that the Church eſpecially in the New Teſtament, doth ſignifie the Magiſtrate. 2. There is no neceſſity to ſay there was a Chriſtian Church court in Chriſts time, becauſe there was not a Chriſtian Magiſtrate at this time, but the Iewes had then a Church-court, before which Chriſt was conveened. Caiphas being Preſident, and the blinde man, Iohn 9. who was caſt out of the Synagogue, for that he confeſſed Chriſt. 3. Chriſt ſpeaketh of that which was to be, though in its frame not yet erected.

Eraſtus. Chriſt hath the like words of binding and looſing, Mat. 16. which ſignifieth alſo to preach the Goſpell, that he who beleeveth may be looſed, and he who beleeveth not may be made inexcuſable, and therefore it is no other, but to pray a brother to deſiſt from his injury, ſhewing him that that is acceptable to God: for to binde and looſe in all the Scripture, is never to debarre any from the Sacraments; if you divert your brother from doing an injurie, by declaring the will and wrath of God, out of his Word, thou haſt gained him, and looſed him, if he will not be perſwaded, the wrath of God abides on him, and thou haſt bound him.

Anſ. If looſing and binding Matth. 16. be preaching of the Word of God, and looſing be Chriſtian forgiving of an injury, then are women who are taught in the prayer of Chriſt, Mat. 6. to forgive one another, inveſted with the keyes of the Kingdome of Heaven, to preach the Goſpell; and why not alſo to adminiſter the p. 311Seals? and ſo are all private men clothed with the keyes to take in and caſt out at their pleaſure, and what are Miniſters that are over the people in the Lord, and watch for their ſoules? 2. We never ſaid, to binde was to debarre from the Sacraments, except conſequently onelyonly, to binde, is to declare an obſtinate man as a Heathen, and ſo no member of the houſe of Chriſt, and conſequently to have no right to the bread of the children of the houſe, nor ſay we, that to Excommunicate is formally to debarre men from the Sacraments, it is to caſt them out of the houſe: hence it muſtTo Excommunicate is not formally to debarre from the Seales. follow that the priviledges of the houſe belongeth not to them. 3. You may diſſwade a man from doing a civill injurie, and never gaine his ſoule, but the Magiſtrates club, for which Eraſtus contendeth in theſe words, cannot reach the ſoule.

Eraſtus. None can remit a debt but the creditor, nor pardon an injury but he who ſuffereth the injurie.

Anſ. Then none can binde and looſe but private men, and the keyes of heaven are given to all private perſons, nor can private perſons by forgiving, ſo remit the perſon as he is looſed in heaven. 2. The Church is offended at Scandals, and are ſufferers; Ergo, The Church muſt binde and looſe: Let Eraſtus teach us the way except by Church-cenſures.

Eraſtus. Caſting out of the unclean is not to binde, becauſe to purifiePage 201. is not to abſolve, the unclean might be purified by any cleane, and not by the Prieſts onelyonly.

Anſ. The legall purging of the Leper, was onelyonly by pronouncing him▪ cleane, and could not be done but by the Prieſt, and it was a looſing of him.

Eraſtus. Where Chriſt inſtituteth any new ordinance, he omittethPage 203. nothing that is ſubſtantiall, but here he ſpeaketh nothing of publike ſins, for which you doe eſpecially excommunicate.

Anſ. Chriſt according to the minde of Eraſtus does here inſtitute a throne for the Chriſtian Magiſtrate, how doth he then inſtitute a way how the Chriſtian Magiſtrate may remove private Scandals and not publike? for publike Scandals hurt the Church ten to one more then private doe. Chriſt ſpeaks of ſins in their riſe private, betweene brother and brother, but he ſpeaketh of publike Scandals, of ſuch as will not heare the Church, and for theſe onelyonly we Excommunicate. 2. Tha… is not true, that any one p. 312place of Scripture, where an inſtitution is that all the ſubſtantials of that inſtitution, ſhould be expreſly ſet down in that place, it is enough that all be held forth in either one Scripture, or other, as in Chriſts ſufferings, Baptiſme, Paſtors, &c.

Eraſtus. foreign Again I ſay unto you, if two of you ſhall agree on earth, theſe words muſt referre to private men, not to the Church, it is cleare that Chriſt ſpeaketh nothing of two, as hee doth in this verſe, but when he ſaith that one private man is to rebuke and gain another private man; nor is it enough to ſay its anPag. 203. 204. argument à comparatis, for if the ſame thing be not kept in both extreames, it is a vaine compariſon if you ſay a childe underſtandeth this; Ergo, An aged man underſtandeth it, it followeth well. But if you ſay a child underſtandeth this; Ergo, An aged man is rich and good; who would not laugh? But if God heare the prayer of two; Ergo, farre more will he heare the prayers of the Church, it followeth not, except you ſay, if thoſe things that two or three bindes on earth be ratified, how ſhall we thinke, that that is ratified which the Church bindes and looſes?

Anſ. Here is nothing but Grammatications that cannot convince: it is true, that Chriſt ſpeaking of two, he ſpeaketh of private men, but many will not grant ſo much, for they ſay, that by two the ſmalleſt number is meant, a Church of the feweſt, by a Synecdoche, and two may be taken for a ſmall convention and number which doe literally exceed two, Jer. 3. 14. Rev. 11. 3. I will give power to my two Witneſſes; they be more Martyrs who witneſſed againſt Babylon then two literally, and this Expoſition ſeemeth to me as good as the other, and then if the ſmalleſt Church doe binde and looſe in heaven and earth, ſo much more the Church; and ſo all ſhadow of this unſolid Grammattication is removed. 2. The proportion is well kept, if two praying on Earth be ſo heard in Heaven, as by their prayers, they may obtaine that theſe be ratified in Heaven which they aske on earth; farre more is that ratified in heaven, which the Church in a judiciall and authoritative way, doth on earth, in the Name of Chriſt: for praying of private Chriſtians, and publike and authoritative binding of the Church doe both agree in this, that the Father of Chriſt ratifieth both in heaven, which is a due keeping of proportion, and not ſuch a crooked compariſon p. 313as Eraſtus would make between an aged man, & a rich & good man 3. Though two private men have the ſame Analogicall binding in Heaven and earth with the Church, it followeth not that the binding of the Church is not a Church-binding, as the binding of the two private men is alſo a binding, but no publick, no Churchbinding. 4. How ſhall Chriſts words keep either ſenſe or Logick with the expoſition of Eraſtus? If he will not hear the Christian Magiſtrate, complain to the Heathen Magiſtrate; and again I ſay, if the Lord hear two praying on earth, far more will he ratifie in Heaven, what a prophane Heathen Magiſtrate doth on earth againſt a Chriſtian offender; judge what ſenſe is in this gloſſe.

Eraſtus hath no reaſon to divide theſe words, ver. 19. Again I ſay, if two agree, &c. from ver. 17. 18. Becauſe they are meant of the Magiſtrate (ſaith Eraſtus) againſt all ſenſe, and joyne them to the words of the. 15. and 16. verſes: for there is no mention of binding and looſing by prayer, ver. 15, 16. But only of rebuking, and here Eraſtus ſhall be as far from keeping his proportion, of rebuking and praying, as he ſaith, we do keep proportion between Church-ſentencing and praying. To Theophylact Chriſoſtom and Auguſtine, Beza anſwered well, and Eraſtus cannot reply: 6. If there be binding and looſing between brother and brother in the firſt and ſecond Admonition, before the cauſe be brought to the Church, what need is there of binding the man as a Heathen before the Heathen Magiſtrate? And what need of the Heathen Magiſtrates prayer to binde in Heaven? Was there ever ſuch Divinity dreamed of in the world?

Erastus. Theſe words, Tell the Church prove only that the ChurchTheſ. 44. 29. hath the ſame povver to rebuke the injurious man, that a private man hath, this then is poor reaſon: The Church hath power to rebuke an offender; Ergo, it hath power to Excommunicate him.

Anſ. All know that Chriſt aſcendeth in theſe three ſteps: 2. Eraſtus granteth the cauſe is not brought to the Church, but by two or three witneſſes which is a judiciall power, as in the Law of Moſes and in all Laws is evident: if he hear not a brother, he is not to be eſteemed, as a Heathen and a Publican, but if he hear not the Church, he is to be reputed ſo. 3. We reaſon never from power of rebuking to the power of Excommunication; but thus, The Church hath power to rebuke an offender, and if he will not hear p. 314the Church, then is the man to thee, that is, to all men, as a Heathen and a Publican; Ergo, The Church hath power to Excommunicate.

Erastus. Chriſt ſpeaketh of the Church that then was: How couldTheſ. 46. pag. 32. he bid them go to a Church that was not in the world; they having heard nothing of the conſtitution of i…? did he bid them erect a new frame of Government, not in the world?

Anſ. He could as well direct them to remove ſcandals for time to come, as he could after his Reſurrection ſay, Mat. 28. 19, 20. Go teach and baptize all Nations, which commandment they were not preſently to follow, but Act. 1. 4. to ſtay at Jeruſalem, and not To teach all Nations, while the Holy Ghoſt ſhould come: I ask of Eraſtus, how Chriſt could lay a Miniſtery on his Diſciples, which was not in the world? What directions doth Chriſt, Mat. 24. and Luk. 21. give to his Church and Diſciples that they had not occaſion toChriſt might well give directions for a Church not yet erected. obey many years after? is how they ſhould behave themſelves, when they ſhould be called, before Kings and Rulers: 2. Nor were the Apoſtles who were already in the room of Prieſts and Prophets to Teach and Baptize (he after being to inſtitute the other Sacrament) to wonder at a new forme already half inſtituted, and which differed not in nature from the former Government, ſave that the Ceremonies were to be abol…ſhed.

Erastus. Only Matthew mentioneth this pretended new inſtitution,Lib. 3. cap. 3. p. 196. Veſtra igitur excommunicatio nihil aliud eſt, quam inan… ſigmentum hominum imperare, aliis cupie…tium. not Luke, not Mark, the Diſciples underſtood him well, they aske no queſtions of him, as of a thing unknown, only Peter asked how often he ſhould forgive his brother.

Anſ. This wil prove nothing, Iohn hath much which we believe with equall certainty of Faith, as we do any Divine inſtitutions; ſhall therefore Eraſtus call the turning of water into wine, the raiſing of Lazarus: The healing of the man, born blinde, and of him that lay at the Pool of Betheſda, Chriſts heavenly Sermons, Io…. cap. 14. 15, 16. his prayer▪ cap. 17▪ which the other Evangeliſts mention not, Fi…men…a hominum, mens fancies, as he calleth Excommunication? 2. Did the Diſciples underſtand well the dream that Eraſtus hath on the place, and took they it as granted, that to tell the Church is to tell the civill Magiſtrate? And that not to hear the Church is civill Rebellion, and to be as a Heathen is to be impleaded before Ceſar or his Deputies only? This is a wonder to me; Matthew ſetteth p. 315up this way, an inſtitution of all Church-Government, which no Evangeliſt, no word in the Old, or New Teſtament eſtabliſheth.

Erastus. Chriſt would not draw his diſciples, who were otherwiſeTheſ. 48. 34, 35. moſt obſervant of the Law, from the Synedry then in uſe, to a new Court, where witneſſes are led before a multitude and ſentences judicially ſet up, it had been much againſt the Authority of the civil Magiſtrate, and a ſcandall to the Phariſees, and the people had no power in Chriſts time to chooſe their own Magiſtrate, therefore he muſt mean the Jewiſh Synedry: If by the Church we underſtand the multitude, we muſt underſtand ſuch a multitude as hath power to chooſe ſuch a Senate, but there was no ſuch Church in the Jews at this time.

Anſ. That the Church here is the multitude of Believers, men, women, and children, is not eaſily believed by us. 2. And we are as far from the dream of a meer civill Synedry, which to me is no ſuitable mean of gaining a ſoul to Chriſt, which is our Saviours intention in the Text. 3. Eraſtus ſetteth up a chriſtian Magiſtrate to intercept cauſes and perſons, to examine, rebuke, lead witneſſes againſt a Iew before ever Ceſar their only King of the Iews, or his Deputies hear any ſuch thing, this is as far againſt the only ſupream Magiſtrate, and as ſcandalous to the Phariſees, as any thing elſe could be: 4. Had not Iohn Baptiſt, and Chriſts diſciples drawn many of the Iews and Profylites to a new Sacrament of Baptiſme, and to the Lamb of God, now in his fleſh, preſent amongſt them? this was a more new Law, then any Ordinance of Excommunication was, eſpecially ſince this Church was not to be in its full conſtitution, till after the Lords Aſcenſion.

Eraſtus. It is known this anedrim delivered Chriſt bound unto Pilate, condemned Steven, commanded the Apoſtles to be ſcour…e… and put in Priſon. Tertullins ſaith of Paul before Felix, we would have judged him according to our Law; Paul ſaid, Act. 23. to Anani…s, thou ſitteſt to judge me according to the Law, Act. 26. P…ul confeſſeth before Agrippa and Feſtus, that he obtained power from the high Priests, to hale to priſon and beat the Chriſtians, and Paul for fear of the iniquity of this Church or Sanedrim, dealt with them as Heathen, and appealed to Ceſar. Anſ. But by what Law of God did they this? It is not denyed but the Iews Synedrim being two courts p. 316did inflict puniſhment; But that Chriſt eſtabliſheth a civill Sanedrim as a mean, Matth. 18. To gain the ſoul of a brother is now the queſtion; we utterly deny this, and gave reaſons before thereof, to which I adde, if any obeyed not the Church, that is, the Sanedrim, as Eraſtus ſaith, they might be ſtoned to death as Steven was: Was this Chriſts milde way, to cite them onelyonly before the Romane Senate? Were dead men capable of anſwering to any further Iudicatures? 2. The laſt ſtep of conveening Heathens and Publicans before the Romane Senate, according to Chriſts order is not to be obſerved with them, for even Heathens and Publicans, are ſo far forth our brethren: that 1. We are not, when they offend us, to ſuffer ſin in them, but to rebuke them as Chriſtians, Lev. 19. 18. For this is the Law of nature: The Law of nature will teach us not to hate an Heathen in our heart. 2. We are to labour to gain all, even thoſe that are without the Church, 1 Cor. 9. 19, 20, 21, 22. 1 Pet. 3. 1. And this is Chriſts way of gaining all, to rebuke and admoniſh them: Ergo, it was never Chriſts meaning to deal with Heathens and Publicans ſo, as at the firſt we are to drag them before the Heathen Magiſtrate, that by his ſword he may gain them, or take away their life; yea, and Eraſtus granteth in Eccleſiaſticall crimes, that the Iews had power of life and death, in the matter of Steven and of Paul, if he had not appealed to Ceſar to ſave his head: Joſephus de bel. Judaic. Lib. 5. Cap. 26. Antiquit. Lib. 14. Cap. 12. But in things politick, Ceſar took all power of life and death from them: Hence only is Chriſts time the footſteps of the two diſtinct courts remained, and the Prieſts, not the civill Magiſtrate had the power of Church-diſcipline. But all was now corrupt.