The Divine Right of Church Government and Excommunication, Religious polemic · Chapter 18
CHAP. XVIII.
Queſt. 14.
Whether Eraſtus do ſtrongly confute the Presbytery of the New Teſtament.
BEza ſaith, there vvas need of ſame ſelect men in the Apoſtles time Eraſtus l. 4. c. 5. c. 6. Beza de presbyter. p. 110.to lay hands on Miniſters, to appoint Deacons, for there vvas no Jevviſh Synedrie, no Magiſtrate to do it; and vvhen Paul forbiddeth Christians for things of this life to implead other before the heathen Magiſtrate, would he ſend them in ſpirituall buſineſſe to ſuch? or muſt that, Tell the Church, have no uſe for a hundreth years after Chriſt? So Beza; yea if the Lord aſcending to heaven left Officers for theA colledge of churchrulers in the N. T. building and Governing his Church, Eph. 4. 11. and ſome to be over the people in the Lord, 1 Theſ. 5. 12. 13. ſome to watch for their ſouls, whom they were to obey, ſome to feed the flock, and to drive away the wolves, Act. 20. 28, 29, 30. ſome to Govern the houſe of God, no leſſe then their owne houſe, 1 Tim. 3. 4. a Preſbytery in generall Eraſtus cannot deny, only he denieth ſuch apa. 284. Presbytery, and ſaith, that it is like this, ſuch a one is a living creature; Ergo, ſuch an one is a dog. But if I can demonſtrate, there is a Presbytery and they were not all Biſhops, as is clear, Rom. 12. 89. 1 Cor. 12. 28, 29. 1 Tim. 5. 17. and if, Tell the Church, by no Grammer, can be, Tell the Biſhop, except you make the Queen the Bride, and the ſervant or friend of the Bridegroome all one; It muſt follow there is both a Presbytery, and ſuch a Presbytery in the Church, nor do we argue from a generall to ſpecials.
Erastus. The Church may not kill men, but ſhe may pray that GodPage 285. would deſtroy them, or convert her enemies.
Anſ. To pray that God would deſtroy him, whom we are to admoniſh as a brother, is a ſtrange diſcipline; Eraſtus will never make good from Scripture, that God hath appointed praying for the deſtruction of men to be a ſaving ordinance, appointed of Chriſt for gaining of ſouls, (ſuch as we take rebuking, admoniſhing, excommunication, eſchewing the company of ſcandalous brethren, which have for their intrinſecall end, the repentance of a brother under theſe cenſures) and therefore this of Erastus his killing of men, is a new forged cenſure.
Erastus. Whereever the Scripture ſpeaketh in the New TeſtamentPag. 286. of a Presbytery, there is no other understood, but that of preachers; therefore it is falſe, that the Apostles have commanded any other Elders beſide thoſe that labour in the word.
Anſ. The antecedent is falſe; 1 Tim. 5. 17. as I have demonſtrate in another place, I repeat it not here, let any diſciple of Eraſtus anſwer if he can. 2. The conſequence is vaine, for if in every place of the New Teſtament, where mention is made of an Elder, the Holy Ghoſt mean only a Preaching Elder, it followeth only that any other officers, as Deacons, and thoſe that labour not in the Word, & yet Govern well, are not called with the name of Presbyters: And ſo the Argument is againſt the name, not againſt the office and thing. What if the Presbytery be named from the moſt principall part, as is ordinary in Scripture, doth it follow that there be none members of the Presbytery, but only Preachers of the Word? In no ſort. Paul ſaith of the viſible Church of Corinth, Ye are bought with a price, ye are juſtified, ye are ſanctified; Ergo, none were members of the viſible Church, but thoſe that are redeemed, juſtified, and ſanctified, it is like the conſequence of Eraſtus. 3. I retort this vaine argument thus; none in Scripture have the name of Apoſtles, But the Eleven, and Mathias, none are called the witneſſes of the Lord but they, 1 Ioh. 1. 1, 2. Ergo, there be no preaching Miniſters, neither Timothy, Titus, Epaphroditus that are to be called witneſſes of the Lord, but the twelve Apoſtles; ſo where doth Erastus finde that foreign a deaconrie or office of labour in the Miniſtery is given to any, but to thoſe that labour in the word? Rom. 11. 13. Ergo, muſt there be no deaconry, but labouring in the word, the plaine contrary is Act. 6.
Erastus. Beſide Levites and Prieſts, there belonged to thepa. 287. Synedry of the Iews other heads of families; Ergo, beſide Miniſters there muſt be Prophets and Doctors in the Presbytery, it followeth not.
Anſ. Eraſtus fancies a concluſion of an Argument that Beza Beza de presbyt. p. 112. 113.ſaith not; for he ſaith; Ergo, beſide Miniſters there muſt be ſome chiefe men, which we call ruling Elders, to repreſent the people, that there may be (as all our Divines and Scripture teach) a threefold government in the Church: A Monarchy, in regard of Ieſus Chriſt the onelyonly head and King of the Church, as the Iewiſh Church had their High Prieſt a Type of him; and Ariſtocracy, in Paſtors and Teachers, as the Iewes had their Priests and Levites; and a Democracy in the ruling Elders, as the Iewes had their Zekenim, and their Heads of families and Elders in the Eccleſiaſticall Sanedrim, and we in the Presbytery to repreſent the people: and of theſe three the Iewiſh Eccleſiaſtick Sanedrim is made up 2 Chron. 19. 8. of the Levites and the prieſts foreign of the heads of Fathers, or Maſters of families. Now Eraſtus yeeldeth that good Iehoſhaphat departed not from Gods inſtitution in his reformation, all this Eraſtus paſſeth over in ſilence, being ignorant of the Iewiſh Church government, and not able to anſwer, and he addeth ſomething of Doctors not to a purpoſe, and ſaith there be no Doctors but Paſtors onelyonly in the Word; contrary to Rom. 12, 7, 8. Epheſ. 4. 11. where they are clearly diſtinguiſhed.
Erastus. Some choſen men muſt be in the Presbytery to repreſentPage 288. the people; Ergo, theſe muſt be Doctors and Prophets, but there is no need of that, for Biſhops of old repreſented the whole Church.
Anſ. Beza hath not any ſuch argument, he contendeth for RulingBeza de Presbyt. p. 112. 113. Elders, not for Prophets and Doctors to repreſent the people. 2. Where doth the Scripture ſpeake of ſuch an office as a Biſhop having Majority of power above Presbyters? (for ſince Eraſtus denieth all Eccleſiaſticall Government in Teachers, he muſt deny all Majority of Eccleſiaſticall Governement alſo, he that denieth the poſitive, denieth alſo the comparative degree) now this is a Biſhop that neither Scripture, nay nor popiſh Antiquity dreamed of. 3. In what is a Biſhop the repreſentative Church? The like is Eraſtus his third Argument.
Eraſtus. 1 Cor. 12. How is Government a Presbytery? how are OverſeersPage 289. & governments, Doctors & Prophets? There be many kinds of Governours. I wonder that by foreign Miracles, you underſtand not the power of Excommunication, that hath terrified all the World; how are Doctors & Prophets added to Paſtors, are they not teachers as well as Paſtors, but that they adminiſter not the Sacraments? & how doe you prove that? how prove you Overſeers to be …ther then Miniſters?
Anſ. Governements to us are but a part of the Presbyterie. 2. There be many kinds of Governours, but he durſt not venture to ſhew what is ſignified by governments, leſt he ſhould ſay, his Magiſtrate muſt be the onelyonly Church Governour, but he knoweth that a Magiſtrate as a Magiſtrate is no member nor part of the Church, but as he is a Chriſtian; for then Ceſar, Herod, Pontius Pilate, as Magiſtrates muſt be ſet in the body of Chriſt, as Apoſtles, and Teachers and Prophets, which all the World will cry ſhame on. 3. Beza ſaid never that Teachers and prophets are caſt to Miniſters to make a Presbyterie, for by Teachers he meaneth Paſtors. 4. Becauſe Paul ſetteth downe Governments different from Apoſtles, Prophets, and Teachers, they muſt be ſome Officers different from them, we can finde none elſe, but ſuch as rule well, and yet labour not in the Word, 1 Tim. 5. 17. let Eraſtus ſhew us what they are, he dares not open his minde: for he meaneth a Juſtice of Peace, or a King, or a heathen judge muſt be in the wombe of this, 1 Cor. 12. 28. let himſelfe be mid-wife.
Eraſtus anſwering to 1 Tim. 5. 17. ſaith foreign to labour is topage 290. 291. labour diligently, the meaning is like this; I wiſh well to all Paſtors, but eſpecially to thoſe who with great induſtrie, fidelity and paines feed the flocke committed to them, as I love all inclined to ſtudie, but eſpecially ſuch as watch night and day upon ſtudies, for ſome are more diligent in teaching then others, heres no Tautologie to ſay, I love all that ſincerely and ſoundly teach the Word, eſpecially thoſe that diligently teach it.
Anſ. I cannot particularly diſcuſſe this place, I have done it elſeDue right of Presbyteries, qu. 7. c. 7. ſect. 7. page 141, 142, 143. ſe que where fully foreign with two Articles noteth two ſpecies of Elders, as Tit. 1. 11. 1 Tim. 5. 8. Gal. 6. 10. Phil. 4. 22. 2. This is a Tautologie, I love all well governing and faithfull Elders, eſpecially thoſe that labour in the word; they may be well and painful feeding Paſtors, who are not painfull in preaching the Word, and this is Tautologie; I love all that are ſtudious, and ſtudie excellently, and eſpecially thoſe that ſtudie night and day, as Erastus muſt ſay if he make the phraſe agree to the purpoſe, to feed foreign well in a feeding Paſtor includeth labouring in the Word, ſince Eraſtus expoundeth the place, 1 Tim. 5. 17. of Church officers, he cannot deny but the place holdeth forth a Government, and a foreign of Church Officers, for beſide labouring in the Word and doctrine, which is preaching, here is well governing, it is a ſhame then to Eraſtus to expound this place ſo, and yet deny all Church Government, except in the hands of the Magiſtrate.
Erastus. Ancient and moderne Doctors deny two ſorts of Elders.
Anſ. I have made the contrary appear in the place cited; I will not weary the Reader with reaſons ſet downe at full in another place.
Erastus. Shew where the Church hath a judicature, to puniſh ſins different from the Magistrates judicature, as the Lord made a power of burning incenſe to the Lord, to be different from the Kings royall power.
Anſ. Mat. 18. Mat. 16. Ioh. 20. Mat. 28. 19, 20. Eph. 20. 28. 1 Cor. 5. 1, 2▪ &c. Rev. 2. 1, 2. and 20. 21. Miniſters are no leſſe ſeparated under the New Teſtament to all miniſteriall acts of feeding, by the word and rod of Diſcipline, then Prieſts were of Old.
Eraſtus. Nathan did not Excommunicate David.page 293.
Anſ. Nathan had aſſurance from God that his ſin was pardoned; 2. That the Sanedrim did not caſt David out is a fact, and proveth not they had no power; for 80. Prieſts caſt Vzziah out of the houſe of God for a leſſe fault, that carried in its face leſſe ſcandall.
Erastus. The Prophets never accuſe the Prieſts, that they admitted the unclean to the ſacrifices and holy things of God.
Anſ. The contrary is evident, Ier. 5. 31. Ezek. 22. 25, 26. and 44. 8, 9, 10. contrary to their Office, Deut. 17. 11, 12. Levit. 10. 10.
Erastus. David Pſal. 51. ſheweth he would have given Sacrifices,page 294. but God craved a broken heart; Ergo, he had power to ſacrifice.
Anſ. Not except withall he had offered a contrite heart to God.
Paul (ſaith Eraſtus) ſpeaketh of coming to them with the rod, ofEraſtus l. 4. c. 7. p. 295. 296. delivering to Satan, of his comming with the authority God had given him, of his coming to them mourning.
Anſ. Where ſaith Paul that he his alone did uſe the rod? doth he not aſcribe judging and caſting out to the Corinthians? 1 Cor. 5. 12. &c, and forgiving of the inceſtuous man 2 Cor. 2. to them Beza ſaith, this power is neceſſary to purge the Church, leſt it be infected; even to the end of the world, and therefore muſt be left with the Church.page 296.
Erastus. To be gathered in the Name of the Lord is not referred to the congregations meeting together, but to Pauls act of delivering to Satan, the Corinthians and Pauls Spirit inſtructed thus with the power of Chriſt, might have delivered others to Satan as they did this man, if the Apoſtle had not pardoned them, but they had not Pauls ſpirit with them in their convention afterward, becauſe in no place he biddeth them be gathered together with his Spirit, as he doth here.
Anſ. Paul doth conſtrue the words v. 4. in the Name of Christ with the Participle foreign ye being conveened, and the words foreign, are ſeparated from the word foreign (I have judged) by the interpoſition of theſe words, foreign ſo Eraſtus his grammar will be a little confuſed. 2. What needed the Corinthians be gathered together with the Spirit of Paul, and the power of the Lord Jeſus to pray that the man might be miraculouſlyNo miraculous killing 1 Cor. 5. or tormenting of the mans body. killed? for when they were not gathered together in a Church meeting, but were all ſeparatim in their own houſes and cloſets, they had power to judge the man, that is, to pray that he might be miraculouſly killed, elſe Eraſtus cannot make Paul, in any reaſonable manner to rebuke them becauſe they prayed not that he might be killed, for Eraſtus muſt ſuppoſe the power of praying; for this, in faith, was tyed to this publike convention of the Church, and Erastus ſaith, in no place he biddeth them be gathered together as here. This Spirit of Paul and power of the Lord Jeſus that was in them, was not given to elevate them to any higher or more ſupernaturall acts of miraculous co-operating with Paul, then their naked act of conſenting that the man ſhould be cut off, and this act of conſenting, they could not want, in their private praying at home, that the man be miraculouſly killed, and ſo this ſpirit of Paul, and the power of the Lord Ieſus ſhall be brought ſo low, as I know not what to make of it.
Erastus. If they had prayed that God would puniſh this enormous ſinne, whether God had heard them or not, they had diſchargedPage 296. their dutie.
Anſ. But it is evident he rebuketh them not onelyonly, for not mourning for the mans fall, and not praying that he might be puniſhed; but for that they conveened not, and did not judge, and put away the man; Ergo, they had alwayes an ordinary power to judge and caſt out ſcandalous perſons, and Paul rebuketh them for not improving this power; then it was not any miraculous power not ordinarily in their hand, as powers of that kinde are ſuppoſed to be.
Erastus ſaith, foreign is to be conſtrued with foreign;pa. 297. as the meaning may be; note ſuch a one in an Epiſtle, and write to me, that I may cenſure him.
Anſ. This is throwne Grammar, which the Greek doth not bear without violence, for Paul ſaith, If he obey not our doctrine, written by Epiſtle, marke ſuch a one, and he commandeth them to inflict a cenſure on him, by eſchewing his company.