The Divine Right of Church Government and Excommunication, Religious polemic · Chapter 14

The Divine Right of Church Government and Excommunication · Religious polemic · Chapter 14

p. 379CHAP. XIV.

Queſt. 10.

Whether Eraſtus doth ſtrongly prove that there is no Presbytery, nor two diſtinct judicatures, one of the Church, another of the State?

Erastus. I deny not, Firſt, ſuch a Presbytery, as the EvangeliſtsEraſtusl. 4. c. 1. c. 2. p. 258. 259. What Presbyteries Eraſtus yeildeth. mention, which is called a Presbytery, a Synedry, a Synagogue; this was the civill Magiſtrate who had amongst the Jews the power of the ſword. 2. I deny not a Presbytery, 1 Cor. 6. when the Church wanteth a civill Magiſtrate. 3. I deny not a Presbytery of learned men, who being asked, may give their judgement of doubts: of which Ambroſe, there was nothing of old done ſine ſeniorum conſilio, without the Counſels of the Elders. But I deny a Senate, collected out of the body of the Church, to judge who repenteth, and are to be excommunicated, and debarred from the Sacraments, and who not; or I deny any Eccleſiaſticall judicature, touching the manners and converſation of men, different from the judgement or court of the civill Magiſtrate, or that there be two ſupream Courts touching manners in one Common wealth.

Anſ. One ſimple head in a moment, may deny more then many wiſe men can prove in a whole day, it proveth they are more cumberſome in their diſputes, then ſtrong; that there was a Iewiſh Presbytery, …hat is, a civill judicature, is con…uted by Lev. 10. 10. where there is a Court of Aarons ſonnes, whoſe it was to judge p. 380of Church matters only, and to put difference betweene holy, and unholy, betweene cleane, and uncleane. 2. A Presbytery of arbitrators in matters civill, to keep Chriſtians from going to law one with another, before heathen judges: Is not a Presbytery, 1 Cor. 6. one wiſe man might do that, and he is no Presbytery. 2. There is no judicatures of Officers there; they were but gifted men arbitrarily choſen for a certaine buſineſſe, and were not judges, habitu. 3. A Presbytery for Doctrine only is further to ſeek in the word, I hope, then our Presbytery; Eraſtus ſhould teach us where it is. 4. He denieth a Presbytery for manners, then all ſcandals muſt come before the civill Magiſtrate. Who made him a Church officer to judge of the affairs of the Church? Who is to be admitted to the ſeals, who not? For two ſupream Courts, I ſhall ſpeak God-willing.

Erastus. There is no Colledge of Presbyters at Corinth, but everyPag. 259. man was to judge himſelfe.

Anſ. There is a company gathered together in the name of our A Presbytery at Corinth.Lord Jeſus with the ſpirit of Paul, and the power of our Lord Ieſus, 1 Cor. 5. 4. 5. who did judge thoſe that are within, and put out from amongst them an inceſtuous man, v. 12, 13. leaſt he ſhould leaven the whole Church, v. 6. this is a Colledge of judges. 2. There is a number of builders and labourers with God, 1 Cor. 3. 9, 10, 11, 12. Miniſters of God, diſpenſers of the miſteries of Word and Sacraments of God, 1 Cor. 4. 1. ſuch as Paul, Apollos, Cephas, and others, 1 Cor. 1. 12, 13. 1 Cor. 4. 6. A number that had power to puniſh, to forgive, 2 Cor. 1. 2, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10. 3. A number of Prophets who judged of the Doctrine of the Prophets, 1 Cor. 14. 30, 31, 32. theſe be very like a Colledge of Presbyters. O but Paul writeth not to thoſe, but to thoſe who were puffed up, and mourned not, 1 Cor. 5. 2. Theſe were the people and Church. Anſ. Yea theſe were the eyes, eares, and principall parts of the Church, 1 Cor. 12. 14, 15, 16, 17, 18. now he writeth to the Church, 1 Cor. 1. 1▪ 2.

Erastus. Before this time, Paul muſt have inſtituted this Presbytery, who ſeeth not that this is falſe? for ſo he would have accuſed the Presbytery, not the whole Church; but he accuſeth not the Elders, becauſe they admitted the man to the Lords ſupper, and there is no word of excommunication here. There is no mention of one judgement, of one election, of one office, but he chideth the whole Church; becauſe p. 381they mourned not: it was not the Elders office to remove this; they dream, who ſay there is a Presbytery inſtituted here, and there was none inſtituted before this Epiſtle was written; he biddeth them not ask ſuffrages, whether he ſhould be excommunicated or no.

Anſ. All that Eraſtus ſaith againſt a Presbytery, is to improve excommunication: But there may be excommunication by the people, as many hold, where there be no Elders at all. 2. Let Eraſtus point out the time, when a number of preaching Prophets were inſtituted at Corinth, whether in this Chapter (which to me is a dream) or before. 3. He had cauſe to rebuke all; All were ſecure, the Elders who caſt him not out, the people who ſaid not to their Elders, as the Coloſſians are bidden ſay, Col. 4. 17. to Archippus; and will Eraſtus ſay that preaching Elders, who by office, are the eyes of the Church, 1 Cor. 12. 17, 28. were not to be chiefe in mourning to God, and praying that the man might be miraculouſly killed? and yet he reproveth all equally. 4. He reproveth them all that the man was not caſt out of the Church, and this includeth a reproofe, that he injoyed all the Church priviledges, eſpecially the Sacraments. 5. It is falſe that there is no mention of judgement, v. 12. Do not ye judge thoſe that are within? for election, there is none in the Chapter, nor any Presbytery inſtituted in this Chapter; it was before: Eraſtus hath the like reaſon to ſay, that there was no inſtituted Church at Corinth, becauſe in the 1. or 2. Epiſtle to the Corinthians: we reade not where he inſtituted any ſuch Church; if we finde the thing inſtituted, we know it had an inſtitution, and let Eraſtus ſhew us when Paul received the inſtitution of the Lords ſupper, from the Lord: ſhall we deny he received any ſuch thing contrary to 1 Cor. 11. 23. becauſe we finde not where and how he received from the Lord? 6. There is no asking of ſuffrages mentioned Act. 1. at the chooſing of Mathias, nor Act. 6. at the chooſing of the Deacons that we reade of; Ergo, there were no ſuffrages there; it followeth not. 7. And ought not farre rather ſuffrages to have been asked before the people ſhould take on their heads the mans blood, by conſenting thereunto, and praying for it, as Eraſtus ſaith?

Erastus. If theſe words, v. 3. I verily as abſent in body, but preſent in ſpirit, have decreed, &c. ſignifie, chooſe out of your company, Presbyters, who are to cenſure the manners of the people, who ſhall debarre p. 380duplicate page p. 381duplicate page p. 382the unworthy from the Sacraments, I am willing to ſuffer any thing.

Anſ. I know no man but Eraſtus that dreameth of any ſuch ſenſe, there is no inſtitution of a Presbytery in this Chapter, no calling of Miniſters; but it preſuppoſeth a miniſtery before ſ…led. But if th…ſe words. I have decreed, &c. have the Eraſtian ſenſe, I have given ſ…e…c… as a Magiſtrate, that the man be killed by the miniſtery of the Devill; and that you ſhall be my Heralds to proclaime this ſentence: it is a wonder the Text give not any hint of ſuch a ſenſe.

Erastus. v. 12. he ſpeaketh not of the judgement of Presbyters, Pag. 261.but of all the people.

Anſ. 1. This Eraſtus on his word aſſerteth, without probation:Eraſtus granteth an examination of ſuch as are to be admitted to the Sacraments, but denieth all excluſion. Pag. 261. We deny it, it is but par…llel with Gods judging. 2. It is an act of the keys. 3. It is relative to caſting out by thoſe that are conveened in the name of the Lord Ieſus, with the ſpirit of Paul, and the power of our Lord Ieſus: Was every Girle, and beleeving ſervant capable of this ſpirit▪ and power?

Erastus. I grant before any come to age, be baptized, he is to be examined, whether he underſtand the Doctrine of ſaith, and aſſent to it with his heart: I grant it is profitable that young ones be examined, before they be admitted to the ſupper, but I deny God hath for either of thoſe inſtituted a Presbytery. But there is no ground that a Presbytery muſt try wicked men, ere they be admitted to the Lords ſupper.

Anſ. 1. We owe Eraſtus thanks for granting this; but what if the aged be ſound groſly ignorant, and uncapable of the ſeals? and ſome wicked men will trample the ſeals as ſwine, and yet they deſire the ſeals. Eraſtus ſaid before, ſuch ſhould not be admitted; whoPag. 207. ſhould debarre them; either the Church of beleevers, or thoſe that are over them in the Lord, or the Magiſtrate muſt debarre them: if the firſt and ſecond be ſaid, Eraſtus cometh to finde ſome uſe for a Presbytery; if the Magiſtrate be an heathen, he cannot examine or debarre any from the ſeals. Let Eraſtus anſwer, if he be a Chriſtian, how can it be denied; but if the Magiſtrate by his office is to ſteward the bread to one of the children, not to another, but he is a ſteward to cut and divide the word, and ſeals both aright; and how could Paul make it one of the properties of the Paſtor, 2. Tim. 2. to cut the word, and by the ſame reaſon to diſtribute the ſeals aright, if it depend upon another officer by his office to command p. 383him to divide it to this man, whom he hath examined, and findeth in his mind qualified, and not to this man? We judge the Elders of the New Teſtament do agree in this common and perpetuall morality, that both are to put difference between clean, and unclean, holy, and unholy, though many things were unclean to the Iews, that are not unclean to us, and that the Church hath yet a power to bind and looſe, Mat. 16. 9.

Erastus. There was never a wiſer common wealth in the world,Page 262. lib. 4. then that of the Iews, Deut. 4 But in the Common vvealth of the Ievves, there vvere never tvvo diſtinct judicatures concerning manners: Ergo, There ſhould not be theſe tvvo different juriſdictions in the Chriſtian common vvealth. But all ſhould be given to the civill Magiſtrate.

Anſ. Erastus is ſeldome happy in his Logick, his Sy…logiſmes are thin ſowne, all Gods laws are moſt wiſe, but if this be a good Argument, was not their Church, their Religion, their Ceremonies, their judiciall Laws, all wiſe and righteous? Then the Chriſtian Church ſhould be conform yet to the Iewiſh, we ſhould have thoſe ſame bloody ſacrifices, judiciall lawes, Ceremonies that they had. The Iudicatures and officers are poſitive things, flowing from the poſitive will of God, who doth appoint one juriſdiction for them, moſt wiſe, and another to Chriſtians different from them, and in its kinde, moſt wiſe. 2. We give two judicatures in the Church of the Iews, concerning manners, one civil, acknowledged by Eraſtus; another ſpirituall & Eccleſiaſtick, ordaining Eccleſiaſtick and Spirituall puniſhments upon the unclean, Lev. 10. 10. As to be removed out of the campe, and ſuch like, and Deut. 17. Thou ſhalt come to the prieſts, the Levites, and the Iudge, that ſhall be in thoſe daies, according to the ſentence vvhichwhich they of that place (vvhichwhich the Lord ſhall chuſe) The places Deut. 17. and 2 Chron. …9 do prove two different judicatures.Deut 172 Chr 9ſhall ſhevv thee, and thou ſhalt obſerve to doe according to all that they informe thee, ver. 12. And the man that vvill do… preſumptuouſly, and vvill not hearken foreign to the Priest, (that ſtandeth there to minister before the Lord thy God) or unto the judge, foreign even that man ſhall die, and thou ſhalt put avvdy evill from Iſrael. There is here an evident disjunction that clearly holdeth forth, that both the Prieſts and the civill judge judged in matters of manners, and that he that preſumptuouſly deſpiſed the ſentence of either was to die: a judicature of the Prieſts is evidently p. 384here, and a judicature of the civill judge, Eraſtus cannot deny, and that the Prieſt judged in ſubordination to the civill judge, is refuted by the words, which ſaith the Prieſt was immediatly ſubordinate to God, not to the Magſtiſtrate: He that will not heare the Prieſt (that ſtandeth to miniſter before the Lord thy God) ſhall die: Ergo, He is the Miniſter of the Lord; and God called and ſeparated Aaron and his ſonnes, to ſtand before the Lord, and to miniſter, and he did call the Levites, the Magiſtrate called them not to office.

Eraſtus. Beza ſaith, that Moſes, Ioſhua, David, Salomon, did notPage 262. execute the office of the Prieſts, and therefore the charge of the Prieſts, and of the civill Magiſtrates were different offices, and charges; but I ſaid, before the Lord choſe Aaron and his ſonnes to be Prieſts, they were not ſo diſtinct charges, but they did agree to one and the ſame perſon; for, Moſes to omit the reſt, did execute the office of Aaron, Levit. 8. But after that it was not lawfull for any to doe the office both of King and Prieſt; and therefore Saul and Vzziah were juſtly corrected of God for it. But what is this? It proveth not that the Prieſts had publike judicatures to puniſh wickednes of manners.

Anſ. Certainly, if Eraſtus deny the charge of the Prieſt and theHow the Kingly and prieſtly office are different. King to be different offices, becauſe once Moſes did offer Sacrifice, (and ſo was Melchiſedeck both a King and a Prieſt, Heb. 7.) he muſt ſay that Moſes offered Sacrifices, Levit. 8. not as a Prieſt. (Sure I am, Moſes was a Prophet, and a Prince and Ruler, but no Prieſt.) But Moſes by Eraſtus his way, muſt as a civill Magiſtrate have offered Sacrifices, and not as a Prieſt or priviledged perſon by a ſpeciall and an extraordinary commandement of God; for to deny the two offices of Prieſt and King to be different offices, becauſe one man diſcharged ſome Acts proper to both Offices, as Moſes both did beare the Sword of God, as a Prince, and did alſo diſcharge ſome Acts proper to the Prieſt, as Eraſtus ſaith he did, Leviticus 8. is a poore and naughty Argument: undeniable it is that Melchiſedeck was both King and Prieſt, but even then to be a King and to be a Prieſt, were two diſtinct offices, in nature and eſſence, becauſe Melchiſedech did not take away the life of a Murtherer, as a Prieſt, but as King of Salem, Heb. 7. 1. Nor did Abraham pay tithes to Melchiſedech as to a King, but as to a Prieſt. Tithes in Moſes Law as tithes, were never p. 385due to any but to the Prieſts: and therefore even in Melchiſedeck, the Kingly and Prieſtly office, were formally diſtinct Ordinances of God, juſt as David as a King and judge took away the head of the man who brought Sauls head to him, and not as a Prophet he did this; ſo as a Prophet he penned the Pſalmes, not as a King: If one and the ſame man be both a Muſitian and a painter, he doth paint excellently as a painter, not at a Muſitian, and he ſingeth excellently not as a Painter, but as a Muſitian; and though one and the ſame man doe acts proper to both, that may prove that Muſick and the art of painting are one ſubjectively onelyonly, that they may both agree to one and the ſame man, but not that they are not two faculties and gifts of God different in ſpece and nature. 2. Though Eraſtus confeſſe that it was unlawfull that Vzzias and Saul ſhould ſacrifice, yet he will have the Kings office, and the Miniſters office under the New Teſtament not ſo different; forLib. 3. c. 1. page 175. Eraſtus denieth the Miniſtery to be a peculiar ordinance to ſome onelyonly, but common to all under the New Teſtament. he ſaid expreſly, Who knoweth not now when Aarons Prieſthood is removed, but we are all equally Prieſts? Saul and Vzziah ſinned when they were bold to ſacrifice and burne incenſe, but the Magiſtrate doth not therefore ſin, who exerciſeth the charge of the Miniſtery, if he might for his buſineſſe performe both, doth Paul make exceptions of Magiſtrates and Potentates, when he ſaith, 1 Cor. 14. You may all prophecie? Hence he muſt grant that the civill Magiſtrate now may both preach, baptize, and adminiſter the Supper of the Lord, and therfore not only hath the Church no Senate, nor Eccleſiaſticall court to puniſh faults, and ſcandals with Eccleſiaſtick cenſures; but there is no Presbytery of Elders to give their judgement in matters of doctrine, for the Magiſtrates and all Chriſtians may as well prophecy by … Cor. 14. as Miniſters, ſaith he, yea the faculty of preaching is no more proper to the Miniſters of the Church, then to the Magiſtrates of the city. Now by this nothing is proper to the Magiſtrate, as the Magiſtrate, but to the Magiſtrate as a Chriſtian, and to all Chriſtians. But Eraſtus contendeth that the government of the Church, and puniſhing of Scandals, which we ſay belongeth to thoſe that are over the people of God in the Lord, and to Church Rulers, doth belong to the Magiſtrate as the Magiſtrate, and virtute officii, by vertue of his office: ſo that if any Iew or Turke, or any ignorant or extreamely ſcandalous ſhould attempt to intrude himſelfe upon the Seals, p. 386the Magiſtrate as the Magiſtrate and virtute officii, is to examine and judge if he be unworthy, & to debar him, or as he findeth him worthy, admit him to the Seals. Now any ſeeth that it is but a deceiving of the Reader, to ſay that one man may diſcharge both the place of the Magiſtrate, and the Miniſter of God, as Moſes did, and Ioſhua, & David: For let Eraſtus and his followers ſhew us roundly and down-right, whether or no prophecying, debarring the unworthy from the Seals, and all acts of Church government, not proper to the Magiſtrate as the Magiſtrate, and virtute officii; And if ſo, (as indeed Eraſtus teacheth) it is bu… a poore ſhift to ſay, that one and the ſame man may both exerciſe the part of a Magiſtrate, and of a Miniſter.

Eraſtus. Beza for ever ſhall not prove that there was a Church judicature, that had power to puniſh ſcandalous men. Iehoſhaphat Page 263. 264. Two diſtinct Iudicatures, 2 Chron. 19.2 Chr 192 Chron. 19. ordained judges in all the fenced cities, and admoniſhed them of their duty. 2. And did the ſame at Ieruſalem. 3. And ordained judges of Levites and Prieſts, and heads of families, for the judgement of the Lord, and for every cauſe; and Amaziah the High Prieſt was chiefe in the cauſes of the Lord, and Zebadiah in the Kings cauſes. This Synedrie at Ieruſalem was the politick Magiſtrate, they judged of ſtroaks, ſervitude, deaths. But your Synedrie judgeth not between blood and blood, it judgeth not of every cauſe, as Deut. 17. Thoſe that are not well verſed in Scripture, are to note two things: 1. That the cauſe of the Lord, where mention is made of judicatures, is not onelyonly a cauſe of Religion, but any cauſe propoſed in judgement, eſpecially the cauſes of the widdow, the Orphan, & oppreſſed, which the Lord ſaith he will avenge. 2. The Levites & Prieſts were no leſſe civil judges then others it is known that onelyonly the Levits were Magiſtrats in the cities of refuge, there was need of men exerciſed in the Law of God, that the judges might judge righteouſly.

Anſ. If you take puniſhing for inflicting Church-cenſure, (as we here take it) then all the places that ſayes the Prieſts pronounced the Leper clean or unclean, to put out of the campe, or take in, to judge of the adulterous woman, of the reſtitution made by thoſe for whom they offered Sacrifices, to judge between the clean and unclean; to hold out of the Sanctuary the unclean, the uncircumciſed in heart and fleſh, Levit. 13. 3, 4, &c. and 20, 22. and 21. 26, and 30. 44. and 31. 50. Ezek. 22. 26. and 44. 8, 9, 10. Num. 3. 6, and 5. 18, 19. Deut, 17. 12. ſay the Prieſts had power to puniſh p. 387for tranſgreſſing of Gods Lawes, and where the Prophets complaine of the Prieſts miſ-government and unjuſtice, it is preſuppoſed they were to govern juſtly according to the Law, Ier. 5. 31. 2 King. 12. 4. Ier. 26. 7, 8, 11. Hag. 2. 11, 12. Ezek. 44. 8, 9, 10. 2. For the place 2 Chron. 19. it is evident that Iehoſhaphat doth reforme both Church and State, and brought the corrupted Iudicatures to that which they ſhould be by Law; and v. 5, 6, 7. He ſet judges in the fenced cities of Iudah: Here is the civill judicature. And v. 8. Moreover in Ieruſalem did Iehoſhaphat ſet of the Levits, and of the Prieſts, and of the chiefo of the fathers of Iſrael, for the judgement of the Lord, and for controverſies, when they returned to Ieruſalem. Now that this ſecond is a Church judicature, I am confirmed, 1. Becauſe Iehoſhaphat appointed civill judges in all the fenced cities of Iudah; Ergo, Alſo in Ieruſalem the prime fenced city: Now this civill judicature was not tyed to a place, but was in every city, even all the fenced cities; but the Synedrie of Prieſts, Levites and Elders was onelyonly at Ieruſalem, in the place that the Lord ſhould chuſe, Deut. 17. 8. Hence a judicature tyed to no city, but which is in every fenced city, 2 Chron. 19. 5. Deut. 17. 8. and a judicature tyed to Ieruſalem, the place that the Lord did chooſe, Deut. 17. 8. 2 Chron. 19. 8. muſt be two diſtinct judicatures, but ſuch were theſe. 2. There is a (moreover) put to the Iudicature at Ieruſalem, foreign and alſo in Ieruſalem did Iehoſhaphat ſet of the Levites, &c. This could not have been ſaid, if this had not been a judicature different from the former, for if Iehoſhaphat appointed Iudges in all the fenced cities; Ergo, He appointed them firſt at Ieruſalem, the Mother city and fountaine of juſtice; now then he ſhould ſay the ſame thing needleſly, and with a moreover, if this judicature at Ieruſalem were not a judicature Eccleſiaſticke and different from the judicature civill, that he appointed at Ieruſalem as one of the prime fenced cities, which was common with the civill judicatures in other fenced cities. 3. The perſons in the judicatures are different, for v. 5. the members of the court, 2 Chro. 19. 5, 6, 7▪ are called foreign judges; theſe could not be Churchmen, for of theſe he ſpeaketh v. 8. & they are expreſly diſtinguiſhed from the Levites, Prieſts and Elders, v. 8. who are all Church-men, for the fathers of the people were no other thing then our governing Elders, and theſe were members of the other court, v. 8. 4. The p. 388objects of theſe judicatures are very different. The Spirit of God ſaith of the one ver. 5. That they judge for the Lord, ver. 13. for▪ foreignall the Kings matters, this muſt be all civill cauſes, in which the King, and inferiour judges under the King doe judge; but the object of the other is higher. The Prieſts and Levites are appointed by Iehoſhaphat for the judgement of the Lord, ver. 8. And in every matter of the Lord, v. 13. Now whereas Eraſtus putteth a note of ignorance on all that hath been verſed in the Old Teſtament before him, whereas he confeſſeth he underſtandeth not the Originall Language, let the Reader judge what arrogance is here, where ever there is mention (ſaith he) of judgement, there is ſignified not religious cauſes, but alſo other cauſes, eſpecially the cauſe of the widow and Orphane: It bewrayeth great ignorance. For, 1. The matters of the Lord, and the matters of the King, are ſo evidently diſtinguiſhed, and oppoſed the one to the other, by two divers preſidents in the different judicatures, the one Eccleſiaſticall, Amaziah the chiefe Prieſt, in every word or matter of the Lord▪ and the other Zebadiah, the ſonne of Iſhmael the ruler of the houſe of Iudah, for all the Kings matters, that the very words of the Text, ſay that of Eraſtus which he ſaith of others, that he is not verſed in the Scripture: for then the cauſes of the Lord, and the cauſes of the King in the Text, by Eraſtus ſhould be the ſame cauſes, whereas the Spirit of God doth diſtinguiſh them moſt evidently. 2. If the cauſe of the King, were all one with the judgement of the Lord, and the cauſe of the Lord, yea, if it were all one with all cauſes whatſoever either civill or Eccleſiaſticall, what reaſon was there they ſhould be diſtinguiſhed in the Text? and that Amaziah ſhould not be over the people in the Kings matters, though he were the chiefe Prieſt, and Zebadiah though a civill Iudge over all the matters of the Lord, and cauſes Eccleſiaſticall? 3. The Kings matters are the cauſes of the widow, and orphan, and oppreſſed, as is evident, Ier. 22. 2. O King of Iudah, v. 3. execute yee judgement and righteouſneſſe, and deliver the ſpoiled out of the hand of the oppreſſor, and doe no wrong, doe no violence to the ſtranger, the fatherleſſe, nor the widdow, ſo Eſa. 1. 10. 17. Prov. 31. 4, 5. Iob 29. 12, 13, &c. Then the▪ Text muſt beare that every matter of the King is the Iudgement of the Lord, and the matter of the Lord; and every matter and judgement of the Lord, is p. 389alſo the matter of the King, and to be judged by the King, then muſt the King as well as the Prieſt, judge between the clean and the unclean, and give ſentence who ſhall be put out of the Campe, and not enter into the Congregation of the Lord, no leſſe then the Prieſts. Let Eraſtus and all his ſee to this, and then muſt the Prieſts alſo releeve the fatherleſſe and widdow, and put to death the oppreſſour. 2. The different preſidents in the judicatures maketh them different judicatures. 3. It is denied, that all cauſes whatſoever came before the Eccleſiaſticall Synedry at Jeruſalem, Eraſtus doth ſay this, but not prove it; for the place 2 Chron. 19. doth clearly expound the place, Deut. 17. for the cauſes of the brethren that dwell in the Cities, between Blood and Blood, between Law and Commandement, Statutes and judgements are judged in the Eccleſiaſticall Synedrim at Ieruſalem not in a civill coactive way by the power of the ſword. 1. Becauſe all cauſes are by a coactive power judged, as the matters of the King, the ſupream ſword bearer, 2 Chron. 19. 5. v. 13. Rom. 13▪ 4. to eſchew oppreſſion, and maintain juſtice, Ier. 22. 2, 3. But the cauſes here judged in this Synedrim, are judged in another reduplication, as the matters of the Lord differenced from the matters of the King, 2 Chron. 19. 13. now if the Prieſts and Levites judged in the ſame judicature, theſe ſame civill cauſes, and the ſame way by the power of the ſword, as Magiſtrates, (as Eraſtus ſaith) why is there in the Text, 1. Two judicatures; one, v. 5. in all the fenced cities; another at Ieruſalem, v. 8? 2. What meaneth this, that the Kings matters are judged in the civill judicature, not by the Prieſts and Levites? (as Eraſtus ſaith) for the Ruler of the houſe of Iudah was preſident in theſe, and the matters of the Lord were judged by the Prieſts and Levites? and Amariah the chiefe Prieſt was over them? for then Amariah was as well over the Kings matters, as the Ruler of the houſe of Iudah, and the Ruler of the houſe of Iudah over the Lords matters, as over the Kings; for if Prieſts and Levites judged as the Deputies ſubordinate to the King, and by the power of the ſword, the Kings matters are the Lords matters, and the Lords matters the Kings matters, and Amariah judgeth not as chiefe Prieſts, as he doth burne incenſe, but as an other judge, this truly is to turne the Text upſide downe. 2. The cauſes judged in the Synedrim at Ieruſalem, are ſaid to be p. 390judged as controverſies, when they returned to Ieruſalem, 2 Chr. 19. 8. and matters too hard, between plea and plea, between blood, and blood, between ſtroke and ſtroke, Deut. 17. 8. and ſo doubts of Law, and caſes of conſcience. Now Mal. 2. 7. The Prieſts lips ſhould preſerve knowledge, and they ſhould ſeek the Law at his mouth; for he is the meſſenger of the Lord of hoſtes, and this way only the Prieſts and Levites judged, not that they inflicted death on any; but they reſolved in an Eccleſiaſticall way, the conſciences of the judges of the fenced Cities, what was a breach of the Law of God Morall or Judiciall, what not; what deſerved Church cenſures, what not, who were clean, who unclean; and all theſe are called the judgement of the Lord, the matters of the Lord; becauſe they had ſo near relation to the ſoul and conſcience, as the conſcience is under a divine Law. 3. Eraſtus ſaith, it is knowen that the Levites only were Magiſtrates in the Cities of refuge, but I deny it; Eraſtus ſhould have made it knowen to us from ſome Scripture: I finde no ground for it in Scripture.

Erastus. It is true, that Beza ſaith, that the Magiſtrate hath aPag. 265. ſupream power to cauſe every man do his duty. But how hath he that ſupream power, if he be alſo ſubject to the Presbyters? for your Presbyters do ſubject the Magiſtrate to them, and compell him to obey them and puniſh them, if they diſobey.

Anſ. The Magiſtrate even King David leaveth not off to be ſupream, becauſe Nathan commandeth him in the Lord; nor the King of Niniveh and his Nobles leave not off to command as Magiſtrates, though Jonah by the word of the Lord bring them to lie in ſackcloth, and to Faſt; all the Kings are ſubject to the rebukes and threatnings of the Prophets, Iſa. 1. 10. Jer. 22. 2, 3. Ier. 1. 18. 2 Kin. 12. 8, 9. 10, 11, 12. 1 Kin. 21. 21, 22, 23. Iſa. 30. 33. Hoſ. 5. 1, 2. and to their commandments in the Lord: If Presbyters do command as Miniſters of Chriſt, the higheſt powers on earth if they have ſouls, muſt ſubmit their conſciences to the Lords rebukings, threatnings and Commandment in their mouth: Court Sycophants ſay the contrary, but we care not. 2. But they puniſh the Chriſtian Magiſtrate (ſaith he) if there be any Church Cenſure, as we ſuppoſe there is, this Objection ſhould not have been made againſt us; becauſe of the Magiſtrates ſupremacy; it doth conclude with equall ſtrength, that Paſtors ſhould uſe it againſt no man: Now p. 391there be ſome ſwine that trample the Sacraments, ſome not well inſtructed in the grounds of Chriſtian Religion▪ and Eraſtus ſaid, pag. 207. Such ſhould not be admitted to the Lords Supper▪ Now the Magiſtrate the King is ſuch; Let Eraſtians ſay, the Pearles of the Seals of the Covenant are to be given to no ſwine, except the ſwine be Magiſtrates, and that which the Church bindeth on earth is bound in heaven, except it be the Magiſtrate; Eraſtus ſaith, he may go to Hell by priviledge of his place; and that whoſe ſins the Elders of the Church retaineth are retained, except it be the Kings ſins, and that we are to put ſhame upon ſcandalous perſons, and to refuſe to eat with them, Romanes 16. 17. 2▪ Theſſ. 3. 14, 15. 1 Cor. 5. 11. 2 Ioh. 10. Except they be Magiſtrates; Sure God is no accepter of perſons.

Erastus. Whereas you ſay, it is not lawfull for the Magiſtrate toPag. 265. preach and adminiſter the Sacraments▪ (if he might becauſe of his buſineſſe be able to diſcharge both Offices) it is not true: God hath not forbidden it; it was lawfull in the Old Teſtament, for one man to diſcharge both, why is it not lawfull now alſo? the hiſtory of Eli and Samuel is known; it is nothing that you ſay, that the tribunall of Moſes, was diſtinguiſhed from the tribunall of Aaron: for God gave to Aaron no tribunall at all, different from the tribunall of Moſes, he never did forbid the Prieſts to ſit in the Civill judicature after the captivity, the Prieſts judged the people Ezech. 44.

Anſ. That it is lawfull for the Magiſtrate to preach and AdminiſterMagiſtrates are not to diſpenſe the word and Sacraments as Eraſtus ſaith. the Sacraments, 1. Deſtroyeth the Ordinance of Paſtors, and a ſent and called Miniſtry under the New Teſtament, againſt the Scriptures, Heb▪ 5. 4▪ No man taketh on him this honour to himſelf▪ except he that is called of God, as was Aaron: So alſo Chriſt glorified not himſelf, to be made an high Prieſt, &c. … 2. God often maketh an honour of a calling to the Miniſtery, that he hath ſeparated them to it, Numb. 16▪ 9. Moſes ſaith to Korah; hear now …e ſons of Levi, Seemeth it a ſmall thing unto you, that the God of Iſrael hath ſeparated you from the congregation of Iſrael to bring you neer to himſelf to do the ſervice of the tabernacle of the Lord, Deut. 10. 8. At that time the Lord ſeparated the tribe of Levi to bear the Ark of the Covenant of the Lord, to ſtand before the Lord to miniſter unto him, Numb. 8▪ 6. 7. 8. 9. But that ſame honour is put upon the Preachers of the Goſpel, Rom▪ …. 1. Paul the ſervant of Ieſus Chriſt, p. 392called to be an Apoſtle, ſeparated unto the Goſpell of God, Act. 13. 2. The holy Ghoſt ſaid, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them: If it be an honour, and no man, though gifted as Chriſt was, can take honour to himſelf: No Magiſtrate can take on him to diſcharge the office of a Miniſter.

Object. But when he is called to be a Magiſtrate, he is called to be a Miniſter, and ſo being called to the one, he is called by the ſame calling to the other.

Anſ. If being called to be Magiſtrate, he be alſo called to be a Miniſter, then being called to be a Miniſter, he is called to be a Magiſtrate, and Hoc ipſo that he is a Miniſter, be may uſurpe the ſword, and uſurpe the Throne and the Bench▪ But Chriſt being ſent to be a Prophet, and to preach the Goſpel, Eſa. 61. 1. Luk. 4. 20. 21. ve…. 43. refuſed to divide the inheritance, and to be a a Iudge, Luk. 12. 13, 14. He would not take on him to be a judge, except God had made him, and called him to be a judge; If any ſay the Magiſtrate, being the ſupream place, containeth eminently all inferior offices▪ as to be a Miniſter, a Lawyer, a Phyſitian, &c. but the inferior does not containe the ſuperior, I Anſ. Then the Magiſtrate being called to be a Magiſtrate and King, he is called to be a Prieſt to burn incenſe, which the Lord condemned in his word▪ in Vzzah; then when Saul is called to be a King, he is called to be an Aſtronomer, Lawyer, Phyſitian, Sayler, Tayler: Now God giveth a ſpirit to be a King, but no gifts to thoſe offices; Ergo, No calling thereunto, for no gifts argue no calling of God. 2. If a man called to be a judge, be alſo by that ſame calling, by which he is made a judge, made a Miniſter, then it is all one to be called to be a judge, and to be a Miniſter; and ſo a Magiſtrate as a Magiſtrate doth preach and adminiſtrate the Sacraments, then 1. All Magiſtrates ſhould preach and adminiſtrate the Sacraments, and Nero, and heathen Magiſtrates are gifts, actu primo, given by Chriſt aſcending on high, for the edifying the body of the Church, Ephe. 4. 11, 12.

Obj. It is not ſinne to him to preach and adminiſtrate the Sacraments; but then he cannot have time for both.

Anſ. If God lawfully call the Magiſtrate to preach the Goſpel, woe be to him, if he preach not, he ſhould lay aſide all other imployments and preach, God never gave a talent and calling to any p. 393to preach, but he ought to lay aſide other things, and imploy that talent to the honour of God, otherwiſe he ſinneth in digging his Lords talent in the earth, whereas he is obliged to make five talent ten. 2. If he preach as a Paſtor not as a Magiſtrate, then he hath another calling of God to be a Paſtor, and another to be a Magiſtrate, and …rtaine it is, as a Magiſtrate he doth not preach; becauſe there be farre other qualifications required in a Magiſtrate, as Deut. 1. 12. that he be wiſe, and underſtanding, and knowen, and a man of truth, hating coveteousneſſe, Exo. 18. 21. But there is farre other qualities required in a Biſhop, 1 Tim. 3. 1, 2, 3. Ergo, it is one thing to be called to be a Miniſter, and another to be called to be a Magiſtrate. 3. In all the word, Chriſt never commanded the Magiſtrate to preach and baptiſe▪ this negative Argument Eraſtus uſeth often againſt us, to prove that none ought to be excluded from the Sacraments, becauſe Prieſts, Prophets, Chriſt, Apoſtles never excluded any: But Chriſt commanded the Miniſters to preach and baptiſe, and gave them the Holy Ghoſt for that effect, and ſent them as the father ſent him, as having received all power from the father, Math. 28. 18, 19, 20. Mark. 16. 15, 16. Ioh. 20. 20, 21, 22. and leaſt we ſhould think this charge was given to Apoſtles as Apoſtles, he teacheth that it is given to all faithfull Paſtors to the end of the world, Math. 28. v. 20. Lo I am with you, even unto the end of the world, Amen. Not to ſay, that if it be peculiar to Apoſtles to preach and baptiſe, neither Paſtors, farre leſſe Magiſtrates can do it, or then Paſtors and Magiſtrates are Apoſtles ſent to preach to all the world, and can work miracles, which is abſurd. 4. Chriſt aſcending to heaven, left Apoſtles, Evangeliſts, Paſtors and Teachers, for the perfecting of the Saints, and work of the Miniſtery; not Kings and Magiſtrates. 5. How ſhall they preach, except they be ſent? Magiſtrates as Magiſtrates bear the ſword, and have carnall weapons, and are not ſent; the weapons of Miniſters are not carnall, 2 Cor. 10. 4, 5. For Eraſtus his Argument, God has not forbidden Magiſtrates to preach; Ergo, it is lawfull for them to preach, it followeth not▪ for ſuch poſitive ordinances as preaching Miniſters, muſt be appointed by a poſitive command, for where hath God forbidden women to baptiſe? Ergo, they may baptiſe; is not the Lords commanding the Apoſtles to go teach and baptiſe all Nations, and his not giving any ſuch commandement to others, as p. 394good as a forbidding of them? But I hope this is examined already ſuffi…ientl…. 2. For Samuel his being both Iudge and Prophet, I grant it; but as an extraordinary diſpenſation of God, which Chriſt would not take on him to do, Luk. 12. nor is it left to us as a rule. 3. That Aarons ſons had no tribunall of their owne different from the tribunall of Moſes, is proved to be falſe from 2 Chr. 19, 8. 4. That the Prieſts were Magiſtrates having the power of the ſword, cannot be proved by any word of God, the pl…e Ez…. 44. is every way for us, all the power given in that Cha▪ is Eccleſiaſticall, none Civill, as to k…ep the charge of the Lords holy things, to exclude the uncircumciſed in heart and fleſh, out of the ſanctuary, to come near to the table of the Lord and Miniſter, v. 16, to enter into the gates of the inner courts, clothed in linnen, &c. and many the like, did no more agree to a Magiſtrate then to burn incenſe, which to do, Eraſtus granteth was unlawfull in King Vzziah; yet he would prove that it is lawfull under the New Teſtament to exerciſe both, ſo the Magiſtrate were able to do both; becauſe Samuel exerciſed both. But might not King Vzziah exerciſe both without impeachment of his buſineſſe? and where was he forbidden? but in this God made choiſe of the tribe of Levi, and of no others, which alſo he has done under the New Teſtament▪ as is proved.

Erastus. Nor is that true, that whoſe part it is to preach and diſpenſeThe Magiſtrate is not to judge who are to be admitted to the Sacraments, who not. the Sacraments, it is his part to judge of thoſe that prophaneth the word, and ſeals, ſo as he has power to puniſh any that deſires the Sacraments, with the want of the Sacraments; and though it were true, it ſhould prove that Paſtors, not a Presbytery of Paſtors and Ruling Elders have any power to debarre from the ſeals.

Anſ. 1. Well, then Eraſtus granteth that the Miniſters are to preach the Word and diſpenſe the Sacraments: But not to judge of thoſe that prophane the holy things of God, nor to debarre from the Sacraments any who deſire them; if Eraſtus did mean a bodily debarring by the power of the ſword, if any openly prophane ſhall violently intrude himſelf, we ſhould yeeld that to the Magiſtrate as the keeper of both Tables. But Eraſtus is of that minde, that as the Magiſtrate may preach and diſpenſe the Sacraments, he may by that power alſo Eccleſiaſtically cognoſce, and judge of the ſcandals, for which the openly prophane are to be debarred, and accordingly debarre. Now Eraſtus ſaith he may preach p. 395as a Chriſtian, becauſe that all Chriſtians now under the New Teſtament may preach and prophecy, all are Prieſts and Prophets, ſo ſaith he, page 175. So the Magiſtrate by this as a Chriſtian, andL. 3. c. 1. ex equo n…s omnes eſſe ſacerdotes. ſo all Chriſtians women and children, may try and examine all that are openly prophane, and unworthy of the Seals: this can be nothing but popular Anarchy; yet that the Magiſtrate, as a Magiſtrate, and not as a Chriſtian, is to examine and try who are unworthy communicants, I conceive is the minde of Eraſtus, as I have proved before: Which though it be a plaine contradiction, yet it is the pillar of all the Eraſtian doctrine, that the Magiſtrate as the Magiſtrate hath the ſupream power of all Church governement. Therefore (ſaith he, page 171.) they doe wickedly who Eraſtus ib. 171.take from the Magiſtrate that part of the viſible juriſdiction in governement of the Church which God hath given to him, and ſubject the Magiſtrate to ſome other jurisdiction,—Magiſtrates are Gods.

Anſ. If to preach, diſpenſe the Sacraments, and to judge who are unworthy of the Seals, and debarre them, be taken from the Magiſtrate as he is a Chriſtian, this power of viſible juriſdiction over the Church is no more taken by us from the Magiſtrate, then it is taken from all Chriſtians as Chriſtians, and in regard of any ſuch power Magiſtrates are no more Gods and Nurſefathers in the Church, then all Chriſtians are Gods and Nurſefathers of the Church: for by the reaſon of Eraſtus, p. 175. that all Chriſtians now are Prieſts and Prophets, and ſo may examine who are worthy of the ſeals, who not, then the Civill Magiſtrate can be, by us, ſpoyled of nothing that God has given him, as a Magiſtrate, except Eraſtus ſay that he doth all theſe as a Magiſtrate & virtute officij; which when he or any of his Diſciples ſhall aſſert, beſide that it is contradictorious to his way, we are ready to demonſtrate that it is blaſphemous & contrary to the word of God. But that Eraſtus does take from the Elders of the Church, and give to the Magiſtrate a power to judge in an Eccleſiaſticall way, who are to be debarred from the ſeals, I argue on the contrary thus; thoſe who are to cut the word, and diſtribute it aright, are alſo to diſtribute the ſeals a right, to the worthy, not to dogs and ſwine, not to heathens and publicans, for it is evident that the right ſtewarding and diſtributing of ordinances doth eſſentially include the ſtewarding of them, with judgement and diſcerning, p. 396to thoſe that are worthy, not to thoſe that are unworthy. But Elders, not Civill Magiſtrates are to do the former, Ergo the latter alſo. 2. Thoſe to whom Chriſt committed the power of the keys to open and ſhut, to bind and looſe, to thoſe he hath given the uſe and exerciſe of the keys. But Chriſt gave the power of the keys to the Apoſtle Peter, as repreſenting the Rulers of the Church, Mat. 16. 19. & to the Church, Mat. 18. 18. and not to the Magiſtrate as to the Magiſtrate; Ergo, The propoſi…ion I prove from the Texts, Mat. 18. 18. What ye ſh…ll bind on earth, ſhall be bound in heaven, &c. and Cha. 16. 19. the ſame is repeated: now actuall binding is the uſe and exerciſe of the keys given to Peter and the Church. But it is preſumed the power is given, when Chriſt ſaith, v. 19. I will give unto thee, the keys of the Kingdome of Heaven. 2. We read not that God giveth a power, a gift, a talent, or an office, but he judgeth it a ſinne in thoſe to whom he giveth it, not to put forth in acts and in exerciſe that gift, talent, and office, either by themſelves, or his deputies; which latter I ſpeak for the King, who in his own perſon, and in the perſon of inferiour judges ſent by him, do put forth in acts of juſtice, the Royall power that God has given him. The aſſumption is Scripture.

Eraſtus has no anſwer to this, but the keys were given to Peter as repreſenting all the faithfull, not the Elders, and that all private Chriſtians do bind and looſe.

Anſ. Beſides, this is anſwered fully above, and is a meer anarchicall Democracy; it, 2. concludeth well that Chriſt gave not to the Magiſtrate as the Magiſtrate, the keys, but to the Magiſtrate as he is a Chriſtian, making that ſame Chriſtian confeſſion of faith with Peter, Mat. 16. and as he is an offended brother, who may bind and looſe in earth and heaven, ſo Eraſtus Theſ. 54. p. 42. and ſo by this the Magiſtrate hath no more power to debarre from the ſeals, then all other Chriſtians have. 3. If Chriſt give the key of knowledge to the Elders, then he cannot give the power of ſtudying Sermons, and preaching the word to another; ſo if Chriſt give the power of breaking the bread of life to the children of the houſe, then he cannot give the power of judging, who are the children of the houſe, who not, to another.

Ob. But the Magiſtrate is only to examine the fact, & to puniſh adultery, inceſt and the like, that deſerve to be puniſhed by the ſword, but not p. 397whether it be a ſcandall that deſerve excluſion from the Sacrament, or not; Miniſters are to take the probation of the ſcandalous fact by witnes from the Magiſtrate, & ſo to exclude from the Lords ſupper, and to deal with the mans conſcience to bring him to repentance, ſo do ſome argue.

Anſ. If the Church be to try the penitency, or impenitency of the fact, and not to cognoſce and try whether he hath done the fact, upon the ſame ground the Magiſtrate is to try and puniſh the diſturbance of the peace of the Common-wealth, that adhereth to the fact, and not to try the fact. 2. It is not poſſible that the Church can know whether the man be penitent, or no, except by witneſſes they know the fact, for they ſhall run a prepoſterous way, to work the man to a godly ſorrow, for that ſinne which poſſibly he never committed; now that of which the Church is to convince the man, and from which they are to gain his ſoul, that they are to find out. 2. This is againſt the way of Eraſtus, who will have the Magiſtrate to exclude from the Sacraments, and none other. 3. The word knowes no ſuch thing, as that Miniſters ſhould be led in the acts of their Miniſteriall duties, to whom they ſhould diſpenſe the myſteries of the Goſpel, and to whom they ſhould deny them; by the Magiſtrate? by a good warrant the Magiſtrate is to lay a tye on the conſciences of Elders, what they ſhould diſpence, as to whom they ſhould diſpenſe; ſure if the Magiſtrate as the Magiſtrate muſt preſcribe to Miniſters, to what ſort of perſons they muſt diſpence word and Sacraments, he muſt upon the ſame ground as a Magiſtrate preſcribe what Doctrine they ſhould preach to this man, not to this, whether Law or Goſpel; and ſo the Magiſtrate as the Magiſtrate muſt be a Paſtor to cut the word aright, 2 Tim. 2. 15. Eze. 3. 18, 19, 20. Eze. 13. 19. to command to preach life to this man, death to this man. 4. If the Church muſt caſt him out, and judge him who has done this wickedneſſe, 1 Cor. 5. 2, 12. and 4. 5, 6. 7. then muſt they judge of his ſcandall; that according to the quality of the ſcandall, they may proportion the meaſure of the puniſhment; Ergo, a pari they muſt judge whom they debarre from the ſeals. 5. The debarring any from the ſeals, muſt be proportioned to the end of all ſpirituall cenſures, that the man be gained, and his ſinne looſed in heaven, Mat. 18. 15. 18. that his ſoul may be ſaved in the day of the Lord, 1 Cor. 5. 4. That he may be aſhamed, and ſo humbled, 2 Theſ. 3. 14, 15. 2 Cor. 2. 6, 7. that he may learn not to blaſpheme, 1 Tim. p. 3981. 20. But the Magiſtrates excluding of any from the Sacraments is no mean congruous to ſuch an end, for he can command nothing, but the diſobedience of which he can and ought to puniſh with the ſword; now a carnall weapon cannot be congruous and proportionable to a ſpirituall end. 6. If the Magiſtrate as a Magiſtrate muſt ſo farre have the keys of Diſcipline, then as a Magiſtrate he muſt catechiſe, examine, and try the knowledge of the Communicants, and ſo watch for their ſouls, as thoſe that muſt give an accompt to God. 7. The Magiſtrate muſt have a Negative voyce in all the acts of the Church, and the man muſt be bound in heaven, but not except the Magiſtrate will, and looſed in heaven, but not except the Magiſtrate will, for all muſt depend upon the conſent of him to whom Ieſus Chriſt has committed the ſupream▪ and higheſt and only power of governing the Church; now this is the Magiſtrate as the Magiſtrate to Eraſtus. 8. The Magiſtrate as the Magiſtrate muſt forgive ſinners and relaxe them from excommunication, 2 Cor. 2. 7. and reſtore thoſe that are overtaken in offences, with the ſpirit of meekneſſe, Gal. 6. 1. and rebuke publikely thoſe that ſin publikely, 1 Tim. 5. 20. and ſo be a ſpirituall man, and a Paſtor. Neither doth it follow that the Paſtors as Paſtors only, ſhould debarre from the Communion, though virtute poteſtatis ordinis as Paſtors, they are to keep themſelves pure, and not to give pearls to ſwine, nor to communicate with other mens ſins; yet becauſe the Sacraments are Church ordinances, they are to be diſpenſed by the Church, that is, by the Elders with conſent of the people: it is one thing to diſpenſe ordinances to thoſe that receive them, and another thing to diſpenſe them ce…o ordine after a Church way, the former is from power of order, the latter from power of juriſdiction, and from the Church only.