Some New Blazing Stars Styling Themselves New Lights, Papers

Some New Blazing Stars Styling Themselves New Lights · Papers

p. 11This Letter is ſeconded by ſundry others from thence to the ſame effect, and to move the Honourable Houſes of Parliament to take ſome ſpeedy courſe for the quenching of thoſe flames of Schiſme and Sedition, which theſe New Independent Lights and Firebrands have kindled in this Plantation, and taking off the unſupportable yoak of Tyrannicall and Arbitrary Government over the Perſons, Eſtates, and Conſciences of the Free-borne Engliſh Subjects there, which theſe Lordly Tyrants have impoſed on them, threatning ruine to this Plantation; which I hope their Honours, and all others concerned in it, will ſeriouſly lay to heart.

I ſhall adde to this two other Papers, (to wit, a Petition, and Advertiſement) ſent lately from the ſame Iſlands to me by Mr Richard Norwood, which fully diſcover the Schiſmaticall and arrogant Proceedings of the Independents there; and refute their preſent Innovations in a ſubſtantiall ſatisfactory manner.

To the Right Worſhipfull our Worthy Governour Captaine Ioſias Forſter, and his Councell.

Right Worſhipfull and worthy Governour, &c.

I Know you are not ignorant of the rent or diviſion here begun, which though I beleeve (as you have often teſtified) you favour not, yet through your gentleneſſe and forbearance towards the Authours and Abetters; It growes very ſtrong, and is like to prevaile; which I ſuppoſe you know not, but may further underſtand if you be pleaſed to make enquiry, and to heare other men. For mine owne part I frame not this as a complaint or accuſation againſt them, being but one man, and the matter concerns all; beſides I have ſeene the ſucceſſe that others have p. 12had that wayes, and I know they are too ſtrong a party for me or any one man to encounter with. But being very ſenſible of the danger approaching, loſt by my ſilence I might ſeem to conſent unto it, I thought it neceſſary to give notice, and to endeavour what in me lies to prevent it, whatſoever may befall me for ſo doing.

Therfore I have written this Advertiſement following, which I could wiſh might come to the hands of all. The intent and ſcope wherof is, to invite and perſwade all to a ceſſation from ſetting up any new diſcipline and government amongſt us untill we heare what is decreed by the Honorable Aſſembly of Parliament: Or if that cannot be obtained (as I have ſmall hope, conſidering how eagerly they purſue their ends, and how great a number they have gayned to their party) yet that the authours would expreſse punctually in writing, what manner of Diſcipline and Government it is which they would ſet up.

And becauſe (it may be) they will ſay, that they have already expreſt it in their Sermons, eſpecially in their Lectures ordayned for that purpoſe; therefore I have ſet down thirty or more doubts of ſpeciall moment which they have not yet cleared. Neither is it fit that our Religion or this part of it (which they would ſeem to make a principall part) ſhould remain in their breaſts only, for ſo they may adde, detract, or alter, as they pleaſe; but ought to bee fully expreſt in writing. And I beleeve they are ſcarce agreed themſelves touching all points of their intended Diſcipline; which you may perceive if you pleaſe to examine them ſeverally, according to theſe or ſuch other queſtions, as you ſhall think fit.

Therefore in the firſt place (according to my duty) I humbly preſent this Advertiſement to the conſideration of your Worſhip and your Councell, to whom God hath committed the Government of this place, and of all perſons here, and of whom he will certainly require it, if ſuch an evill as is threatned ſhould befall through your neglect. For although the great Antichrist and his Clergy did prevaile to perſwade Chriſtian Princes and Magiſtrates, that the Government of the Church and care of Religion pertained not to them, but to the Clergy, and the like, is now here preached amongſt us: yet I verily truſt, you entertain no ſuch falſe principle. For, to eſtabliſh true Religion, to maintain it, and to ſee that the duties of Religion be duly performed to God and man, is almoſt all that the Law requireth, and ſo is almoſt (if not all) the duty of the Chriſtian Magiſtrate. And this being taken from him, and put upon the Clergy, he may ſerve as an officer to execute what the Clergy p. 13ſhall decree, but ceaſeth in a manner wholly to be a Magiſtrate. Thus commending you to the tuition and direction of Almighty God. I reſt

March 6. 1642. Your Worſhips in all due obſervance, RICH. NORWOOD.

An Advertiſement to ſuch here as have care of the Conſervation of true Religion.

IT is and ought to be the principall care of every good Chriſtian, to conſerve the knowledge and exerciſe of true Religion in himſelfe and others, being the one thing neceſſary. But from this theſe times have much declined everywhere; and even in our deare native Countrey, ſo farre as called for a ſpeedy Reformation, or threatned ruine. And ſeeing little hope of the one, the latter was juſtly feared by many, and by my ſelfe (I confeſſe) amongſt others, being the principall cauſe of my comming hither. But the Lord hath mercifully ſtayed thoſe feares, and given us freſh hopes by the Reformation in ſo great a meaſure begun by the preſent Parliament, which alſo they endeavour through many difficulties to accompliſh more fully. And conſidering how worthily they have begun, and what great things they have effected above all expectation, we have no cauſe to miſ-doubt them, nor to anticipate their Honourable proceedings, but rather to attend what ſhall be determined by them; eſpecially conſidering that wee of this place, as wee have not beene much burthened, except by ſome Miniſters; ſo now we are altogether unburthened of the Ceremonies, and whatſoever elſe hath uſually beene offenſive to good Chriſtians in England. For if we ſhould ſet up a new Government or Diſcipline and forme of Religion here, wee muſt alter it againe when wee underſtand out of England what forme the Parliament have or ſhall eſtabliſh: Some ſay no, our Miniſters are as ſupreame heads under Chriſt of their ſeverall Churches here, and not ſubordinate in theſe things Eccleſiaſticall, to Parliament or any other power upon earth whatſoever: but this opinion ſavors too much of Antichriſtian pride and preſumption. Others ſay, the Parliament will eſtabliſh the ſame forme that our Miniſters will ſet up here; but theſe conjectures doe much wrong that Honourable Aſſembly; for if the matter were ſo eaſie and evident, that our Miniſters here can preſently determine it; then what need the Parliament ſo long to debate and conſider of it? What need ſuch conſultation with the ableſt Divines in England, and many other from all parts? And why hath there beene ſuch difference of opinions touching this matter even amongſt the moſt godly and learned in Chriſtendome for theſe 100 years together.

p. 14I remaines therefore, that wee muſt change againe when we heare from thence, and conſidering what changes have beene made by ſome already, if we ſhould now make another change in ſetting up a new Diſcipline, and ſhortly after another when we heare out of England; ſuch mutability would neither be ſafe for this place, not ſuteable to the ſtedfaſtneſſe of the Church and people of God,…. which is the Pillar and ground of truth, and muſt not be wavering, and carried about with every winde of Doctrine &c. The Apoſtle makes it a ſigne of a double minded man to be unſtable in all his wayes: and in the Epiſtle to the Hebrewes;…. Be not carried about with divers and ſtrange Doctrines &c. And the Prophet ſaith, Why runneſt thou about ſo much to change thy wayes? It will be anſwered, we intend not to change, but to the better; but withall remember, that ſuch is alwayes the pretence, and oft-times the intent in all Innovations whatſoever. Therefore Solomon ſaith, My ſonne feare God and the King, Prov. …. 21.and meddle not with them that are given to change. Not but that even the beſt Chriſtians may al…er ſometimes in ſome circumſtances of Religion (ſome good and weighty cauſes requiring it) but it muſt not be through levity, nor of an high minde, nor for ſelfe ends. A reſtleſſe levity, and that with contempt of Authority, under pretence of greater and new lights, is a dangerous ſigne of an Anabaptiſticall ſpirit. Therefore I ſay, what we change, ought to be done with the feare of God and the King. In the feare of God, namely according to his Word; and with the feare of the King, that is, conſenting with the Lawes and Soveraigne Authority ſet over us; or at leaſt not with an high hand in contempt thereof; For every ſoule must be ſubject to the higher powers; Rom. 13. 1.Rom 13:1yea ſaith Chryſostome, though he be an Apoſtle, though an Evangeliſt, though a Prophet.

Therefore I could wiſh (as I have often perſwaded) that wee might ſtay for the determination of the Parliament in theſe things, and likewiſe the approbation of the Company in thoſe that concern… them. But becauſe ſome here are very impetuous, and a further change is daily preached and preſſed amongſt us, I have little hope to ſtop the violence of this ſtreame. Therefore to the intent we may underſtand and conſider what to doe, and (as the ſaying is) look before we leap, I ſhould in the next place deſire, as many others doe, and as it concerns us all to deſire of them, and of our Miniſters eſpecially, that they would be pleaſed to ſet down in writing,Note whatſoever new thing in Doctrine or Diſcipline they would have us entertaine, different from the practice or tenents of the Church of England; that ſo each thing being well conſidered, examined, and adjudged by the Word of God, we may entertaine or reject it accordingly.

I know there are ſundry Objections alleadged and pretended, more then I need to repeat or anſwer here; For howſoever it is true that we are to ſubmit our ſelves to the Word of God, I meane the holy Scriptures in all things; yet not ſo to men,Objections eſpecially when they ſeek themſelves in ſtead of Chriſt: No though they tell us, they are the mouth of God, and ſit in Moſes chaire; and therefore muſt be heard and obeyed; and that the government of the Church belongeth to them next under Chriſt, and that even Caiaphas, though p. 15a perſecutor of Chriſt. yet when he had the place of High-prieſt he propheſied the truth. And though they tell us we muſt not ſtrive with the Prieſt, nor reprove our R…prover; and though they accuſe us to have rejected and oppoſed more good Miniſters then any other like place profeſſing Chriſtianity (of which there is no ſhew of truth I know) and that they which rebell againſt the Miniſters, cannot be under the Government of Chriſt, with many heavy threats againſt ſuch: And though they threaten to leave us deſtitute of the Word of God, if we make any reſiſtance; and though it be often alleadged, that we have rare and reverend Miniſters, endued with new light, and that ſo great,O Arrogance… as the like hath ſcarce beene ſince the Apoſtles times; Nay I have heard ſome, and thoſe of note, preferre it before that of the Apoſtles, at leaſt in ſome things. And further, that all foure of our Miniſters concluded of a new Diſcipline, and new courſes of edification, whereof two being gone into England to agitate the buſineſſe there with their friends, and in Parliament: God hath ſent another from Providence almoſt miraculouſly, who was not of their counſell, and yet doth approve of all their proceedings, and as earneſtly preſſe them as the reſt. Beſides (ſay they) all the chiefe profeſſours in the Countrey are for the ſame; yea the chiefe Authority in the Iſland, next the Governour. So that all things thus concurring, ſhewes (ſay they) that there is an extraordinary hand of God in the effecting of it; and therefore wee ought quietly to yeeld our ſelves to them, leaſt wee reſiſt even God himſelfe.

Theſe (I ſay) and other the like arguments in this caſe,Anſwer however they may prevaile much with ſome that have other foundation for their Religion beſides the Scriptures; yet to an underſtanding man they will eaſily appeare to be of ſmall value, as would be more evident in anſwering them particularly, which I ſhall readily doe if it bee needfull. But having no purpoſe here to diſpute, but rather to invite to a ceſſation from theſe occaſions of ſtrife and controverſie, or at leaſt wiſe to a due conſideration of what we doe; I ſhall only anſwer in generall. It is a ſaying of Divines agreeable alſo to the experience of good Chriſtians, That Satan never tempts more dangerouſly whether by himſelfe or others, then when he doth moſt perſwade us not to reſiſt his temptations, but to yeeld our ſelves to them; And even the Lord himſelfe doth ſometimes prove his Church and people, whether they will cleave unto him (that is hold faſt to his Word) or unto other Lords, other lights, other ſpirits beſides his,1 Cor. 11. 19.1 Cor 11:19 as Deuter. 13. 3. And ſo the Apoſtle foretelleth, there ſhould be Schiſmes, and Hereſies in the Church, as, For there muſt be hereſies even among you, 2 Pet. 2. 1…2 Pet 2:1that they which are approved amongst you might be knowne. And ſo, But there were falſe Prophets alſo among the people, even as there ſhall be falſe Teachers among you. Therefore we muſt not take up our Religion upon the credit of men, how great ſoever they may ſeeme to be, but examine things by the word of God, and ſee that it be firmly grounded there. To the Law and to the teſtimony, if they ſpeak not according to this word, it is becauſe there is no light in them. Therefore they muſt prove by the word of God (not by outward ſignes and wonders) the things they teach, and would have practiſed. p. 16And firſt let us know them fully, and with thoſe noble Bereans, ſearch the Scriptures, and examine them throughly before we entertaine them.

They tell us daily of a greater light, whereby they diſcerne theſe things, and other great and glorious things that are working and already begun in the world within theſe three yeares, and will ſhortly be accompliſhed, even ſo great and ſo excellent a change in the world as may ſeeme to be a heaven upon earth; the Lord grant it, and haſten it; but withall let us deſire and expect theſe things with ſobriety and watchfulneſſe, leſt whilſt our eyes be taken up and dazzled with a preſent expectation of theſe high and glorious things, we ſee not the danger that is at our feet, but be caught in the ſnare before we be aware,Act. 1. ….Acts 1 remembring the words of our Saviour in this caſe, when his Diſciples asked him ſaying, Lord wilt thou at this time reſtore the Kingdome to Iſrael, Act. …. 7.He anſwered, It is not for you to know the times or the ſeaſons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

I have read in ſome Hiſtory of the Weſt-Indies, that about 100 yeares ſince or more, the Iland Vianis (which ſome of our men are now gone to diſcover) and all thoſe Ilands thereabout were Inhabited by certain Indians, which for ingenuity and feature ſurpaſſed many others; theſe held the immortality of the ſoule, and thought that when it departed the body, it went to a kinde of Purgatory, which they ſuppoſed to be the cold Northern Mountaines congealed with froſt and ſnow; where after it was ſufficiently purged, it went from thence into countreys more Southerly, and there abode for ever, enjoyning a thouſand delights and pleaſures. The Spaniards having knowledge of this opinion of theirs, and wanting men to work in their gold mines, came thither with Ships from Hiſpaniola or Cuba (which are to the Southward) and making ſome goodly ſhew, told theſe ſilly Indians that they were come from the Southern parts, places of great felicity, where the ſoules of all their Anceſtors and friends departed were in all joy and happineſſe; and they were now come to tranſport them immediately thither, that they might never come at all into that Purgatory in the Northren parts: Theſe ſimple people being dazelled with the conceit and imagination of theſe things, could not forethink their danger at hand, but came flocking to the Spaniards in great numbers; who when they ſaw their opportunity ſet ſaile, and carryed them thence to their gold mines, where they were ſoone conſumed with grievous ſervice and ſlavery. In like ſort it concernes us not to be ſo much tranſported with any glorious pretences of ſome great temporall freedome and felicity at hand, as to be drawne in any ſort from the Church of England, eſpecially as it is now reformed and in reforming, but to know fully of thoſe that would draw us whither they would have us goe, and upon what grounds, that ſo we may ſearch the Scriptures, and throughly examine thoſe grounds thereby.

God hath delivered our Nation (as many others in Chriſtendom) from under the bondage of the great Antichriſt, we have not prized this deliverance, nor made that uſe of this liberty, nor thoſe many mercies and bleſſings accompanying it that we ought. And conſidering our great abuſe of Gods p. 17favours, and in particular the ſinnes of this place in all ſorts, Magiſtrates, Miniſters and people, and eſpecially the evident unſoundneſſe of thoſe that are Profeſſors here: It were juſt with God whilſt we look for light to ſend us darkneſſe, and whilſt we propoſe to our ſelves the ſpeedy ruine of Antichriſt, great freedome and glorious times (all which the Lord can effect in his due time) wee fall our ſelves into another ſervitude and bondage perhaps as grievous as the former, under petty Antichriſts. For if that grand Antichriſt come down (as we have good hope) and a company of Clergymen ſhould ariſe (whether Miniſters, or who elſe) that ſhould as it were divide his kingdome among them, by aſſuming every one to himſelfe ſuch a like power over his Church, or the people committed to his charge as the grand Antichriſt uſurped over the Catholique Church, and that as he did lure Divino (which they pretend) ſurely they would become ſo many petty Antichriſts, and the Church ſhould be brought into ſervitude and thraldome as before.

And indeed, as the errour to which the Iewes were moſt inclined in generall, was to ſet up other gods, that is falſe gods, attributing ſomething to them which was proper to the true God: So the errour to which Chriſtians in generall are moſt inclined, is to ſet up falſe Chriſts; that is Antichriſts of the Clergy, attributing ſomething to them that is peculiar to Chriſt himſelfe, or to his Church, which is Chriſt myſticall; As was foretold by the Apoſtles, and is evident by the experience of all Ages ſince Chriſt: And of which our Saviour himſelf ſeems to give warning,Matth. 24. 24.Matt 24:24 when he ſaith; For there ſhal ariſe falſe Chriſts and falſe Prophets, and ſhall ſhew great ſignes and wonders, ſo that if it were poſſible, they ſhould deceive the very Elect. And by ſuch meanes, even the Pope himſelfe and all his Clergy had their firſt riſing, having the Suffrages and helpe of ſome that ſeemed otherwiſe to be good Chriſtians.

It behoves us therefore to be earneſt with God in prayer, to walk more worthy of his grace,2 Theſ. 2. 11.2 Thess 2:11 and the light of the Goſpel vouchſafed unto us, leaſt he ſend us ſtrong deluſions; to be ſober minded and watchfull, remembring there will bee alwayes ſome Antichriſts, and that the Church and people of God is never like to be free from perſecution, affliction, and temptation in this world; And that we ſhall never have ſuch Miniſters, whom we may abſolutely truſt to for our Religion (as ſome here profeſſe to doe.) Calvin in his Preface to Pſychopannychia, hath thoſe words, Is this to learn Chriſt, when a man ſhall apply his eare to any doctrines; yea, though they bee true without the word of God? If thou receive it as from man, wilt thou not as eaſily entertaine lies? for what hath a man that is his own but vanity? Therefore we muſt alwayes have the loynes of our minds girded and our lamps burning, Luk. 12. 35.Luke 12:35and ſtand upon our guard our ſelves: And ſo follow men (even the Apoſtles themſelves) as they follow Chriſt. Cor. 11. 1.The Apoſtle ſpeaking of Miniſters ſaith,Col. 2. 1….Col 2:1 Let … man at his pleaſure beare … over you by humbleneſſe of mind…—advancing himſelfe in thoſe things which he never ſaw (but are of his own deviſing) raſhly puft up with his fleſhly minde. And in another place, p. 18Believe not every ſpirit, but try the ſpirits whether they are of God: Ioh. 4. 1.John 4:1And for trying the ſpirits, we muſt follow the rule of our Saviour, who ſaith, Beware of falſe Prophets which come to you in ſheeps c…oathing, but inwardly they are ravening Woolves, Mat. 7. …6.Matt 7:6yee ſhall know them by their fruits, &c. And their fruits are their converſation and doctrine: But the converſation of themſelves and their adherents, being a thing more perſonall, and ſo apt to ſtirre up offence (which I would avoid ſo much as I may) I forebeare to proſecute.

Their Doctrine then we muſt examine by the rule of Gods word; which that we may the better doe being a matter that ſo much concerns us, we ſhould deſire as I have before ſaid, we might have the particulars wherein they differ from the publike doctrine and practiſe of the Church of England ſet down in writing. This if they be not able, or ſhall diſdaine to doe, as not accounting us worthy for whom they ſhould doe it, they muſt not be offended, nor complaine of us that we are oppoſers in this matter of the Kingdome of Chriſt, and will not be ruled by them in the courſe of their Miniſtry; for what diſcretion were it, to follow ſtrangers we know not whither?

Its like they will ſay, they are no ſtrangers, they have lived long here. But as we know one of them came by an accident very lately; the other two though they have been long among us, yet they are in a manner ſtrangers to us, for they are not the ſame men that formerly they were, having changed their opinions and practiſes in many things that we know, and it is like in many other things that we know not, and how farre they will proceed, and where they will make a ſtand wee know not, nor it may be they themſelves.

If they ſhall ſay (as ſome pretend) that the Government and Diſcipline which they would have us entertaine, is of it ſelfe evident by the word of God, to every one whoſe eyes are not blinded by the god of this world, & that they have declared it already in their Sermons, eſpecially in their weekly Lectures, which it ſeemes they have inſtituted for that purpoſe: As hee that preached the third Lecture ſeemed to intimate, when ſpeaking of this intended Church and Diſcipline, he ſaid, His firſt reverend Brother had laid the foundation, his ſecond reverend Brother had ſhewed what muſt be the materials of this building, namely, ſuch and onelyonly ſuch as could bring good teſtimony of their converſion and holy converſation: And he was now to ſhew the forme and order to bee obſerved in every particular Church, and how each one was to be Superiour or Subordinate to others (though he did not this at that time ſo farre as I underſtood.) The ſame things or to the ſame purpoſe were againe repeated in the fourth Lecture. But I ſay, all this notwithſtanding, the things are of themſelves obſcure and doubtfull; which doubts they have not taken away, but rather encreaſed. Some of which doubts amongſt many, I will here ſet down, not raiſed from ſpeculations of things afarre off, and not like to trouble us, but ſuch as ariſe from that which is frequently preached and preſſed or practiſed amongſt us. In which though I endeavour to underſtand things in the beſt ſence, yet becauſe they expreſſe not themſelves plainely, I may miſtake their meaning in ſome things, and p. 19therefore alſo doe the rather deſire they would fully and plainly expreſſe their intent in writing: as one that am ready to joyn in whatſoever I underſtand, to tend truly and indeed to the advancement of the Kingdome, and Government Ieſus of Chriſt, but would not be miſſed by the devices of men, under this or any other pretence whatſoever.

1.A man would think that ſeeing there are twelve Lay-men (a… they term them) to one Cleargyman, be could not retaine his power …ver them, but experience ſhewes the contrary, that if he be an active Politition that hath authority on his ſide, and can make uſe of a Popiſts Princiciple which is in moſt men by nature, he may rule them almoſt as he liſt. WHether they meane to ſet ut Veſtries againe, for every Tribe as formerly they have done, and ſo to govern the ſeverall parts of their charge by ſeverall Ve…ries of a douzen men in each Veſtry▪ whereof the Miniſter to be the chiefe; and ſo to enquire, heare, and preſent Offenders as heretofore?

2. Whether they meane to continue thoſe weekly meetings which they call L…blolly Feaſts, whereof alſo the Miniſter is the chiefe; And what perſons ſhall bee admitted to them, and upon what termes?

3. Whether they meane to continue that Lordly or Maſterly practiſe of univerſall Catechiſing all men and women weekly, begun here almoſt two yeares paſt, and preſſed upon all with great vehemency; And that all ſhall ſtill be tied to anſwer according to that Catechiſe of Mr Oxenbridges, called Babes Milke, or ſome other?

Theſe three practiſes as they have been uſed here, being as I conceived their own inventions, and not grounded on the word of God, nor the examples of the Primitive or other Reformed Churches, nor on the Lawes of our Land, but preſſed upon us meerely by their own Authority, I did in ſome ſort oppoſe at their firſt comming up; namely, by teſtifying both privately and publikely my diſlike of them, and the reaſons why: But eſpecially the laſt more at large, whereunto I was moved by Mr Iohn Oxenbridge, who took upon him to write a defence of this practiſe of univerſall Catechiſing all men and women, and of true Beleevers in ſpeciall; and to anſwer the Objections which I had made againſt it. But what he hath performed, and how well beſeeming his worth and reputation, I leave to the j…dgemnt of ſuch as have or ſhall peruſe my Confutation of that his Defence and Anſwer, where I have put them together: Touching theſe three practiſes, I ſhould move ſundry queſtions, but that it ſeemes they are all laid down of late, and as it is thought will not be taken up againe, therefore we ſhall paſſe them over, that we may come to thoſe new things which they urge now.

4. Whether this Diſcipline and forme of Religion, which they would ſet up, be the ſame in all points of moment with any other Reformed Church whatſoever, except perhaps in Providence, where it had no ſuch ſucceſſe as ſhould induce us to embrace it. If they ſay, yes, in New-England, we are very doubtfull of that, (not knowing certainely what is practiſed there) the rather for that ſome have endeavoured to eſtabliſh univerſall Catechiſing here upon that ground ſaying, it was generally uſed there, which appears not to be true: Beſides, if ſuch a Diſcipline be there, it is no leading example to us, partly becauſe they have had no long experience of it, and partly becauſe there may be much difference between the people there and here; for if all Magiſtrates, p. 20Miniſters and People were eminent in piety, we need not much care what Government were uſed, no, though it were wholy Arbitrary, for none would injure another (and to this condition the Churches in the Apoſtles times ſeeme neareſt to …pproach.) But here where it is farre otherwiſe, and in other places in generall, men muſt be wary what Diſcipline and Government they ſet up, preſuppoſing it muſt come into evill mens hands as well as good, yea, and that more often.

5. Whether this Diſcipline be fully ſet down by any ſound Divine, and not rather framed by themſelves, borrowing from ſeverall Churches, and ſeverall Divines, what will beſt ſerve their turne? And whether our three Miniſters agree in all points touching the Diſcipline they would have us embrace?

6. What ſeverall Offices, and how many Officers ſhall be in every Church, and how ſubordinate one to another? And whether the Miniſter ſhall not be the chiefe of thoſe Officers, or as it were the ſupreme Moderator or Governour of them all, without whom nothing ſhall bee eſtabliſhed, and alſo to have the principall hand in putting in and putting out theſe Officers? for ſo they ſeeme to intimate.

7. Whether this Miniſter and his Officers will govern and cenſure the reſt according to ſome lawes or in an Arbitrary way? and if in an Arbitrary way, to whom ſhall they appeale if they have wrong? And who ſhall queſtion and judge the Miniſter if he decline from the truth, or be a wicked liver? And whether this bee not like to prove a very tyrannicall government if it come into evill hands, which muſt be preſuppoſed?

8. If they will govern and judge according to ſome lawes; what be thoſe lawes? whether ſome already extant, or ſome others which they will frame, and who they be that ſhall frame theſe lawes? and what ſhall be the ſeverall penalties or cenſures for Delinquents?

9. What tryall (in things of importance) the party accuſed ſhall be allowed? The Common Law of England (to avoyd tyranny and injuſtice, to which the corrupted nature of man is much inclined, and even of Clergy men as well as others) allowes a tryall by 12 indifferent men, which are honeſt and free men, of good ranke, having no dependance, nor are in feare of the Iudge, nor beare no ill will to the party accuſed, but ſuch as are like to deale impartially, and that upon Oath. Whether he ſhall have that or ſome other ſo faire a tryall?

10. What things they be which they will undertake to judge of? and whether any thing ſhall bee wholy reſerved to the judgement of the Civill Magiſtrate? or whether the party offending, or the matter in controverſie, ſhall be puniſhed or judged of both, namely, by the Civill Magiſtrate, and alſo by th…ſe Eccleſiaſticall Iudges?

11. If they ſay they will judge only of Eccleſiaſticall matters, what are thoſe matters Eccleſiaſticall, and how exempted from the juriſdiction and authority of the Chriſtian Magiſtrate? For the Pope and Biſhop obtained of Kings that ſundry things might bee called Eccleſiaſticall, and ſo belong to their p. 21ſpirituall Courts (as they call them) which are no more Eccleſiaſticall then other matters which belong not to them.

12 Whether theſe Miniſters and other Officers ſhall be judged by the Chriſtian Magiſtrate in all things as other men? or how farre forth they ſhall bee under his juriſdiction and authority, and how farre forth exempted?

13 From what places of Scripture is ſuch a form of Government deduced, juſtified, or allowed?

14 Who ſhall be the other members conſtituting theſe intended Churches, and who ſhall be excluded from them? To this all or ſome of them at leaſt ſeem to anſwer expreſly, that they ſhall conſiſt only of ſuch as are truly regenerate, and can bring ſufficient teſtimony of their converſion and holy converſation; and all others ſhall be excluded as Heathens, Cananites, Publicans, &c.

15 And ſeeing they have ſaid ſometimes, and will, I ſuppoſe, grant, that not one fourth part, nor it may be, one tenth part of the people here or in England, are able to bring ſuch ſufficient teſtimony of their true converſion and holy converſation, and thereupon ſhall be excluded Chriſtian ſociety, and reputed as aforeſaid, whether this will not breed a moſt dangerous diviſion between Church and Common wealth, threatning the ruine of both?

16. I ſuppoſe they cannot but be ſenſible in part, and foreſee the deſperate iſſues of ſuch a Separation; and therfore it would in the next place be known, whether they intend not to ſalve it by ſome politick courſe, contrary to theſe principles, and what good policy can be uſed to this purpoſe? For mine own part, I can think of none; for either they muſt frame Religion to the people as the Popes and Romiſh Clergy did heretofore, making it ſuteable to the diſpoſitions of moſt men; or elſe (which is more uſuall) feign a people to Religion; admitting and accounting whom they lift through partiality, favour, and ſiniſter reſpects, to be truly religious, though they be not, and ſo receiving them into the Church as true converts, though they can bring no good teſtimony of their converſion and converſation. This policy (I confeſſe) may have faire pretences, and would advance them highly above all men; As they which opening, no man can ſhut; and ſhutting, no man can open; this would ſet them a… Gods in the Temple of God, the Church, and bring them in infinite gaines. But it would ſet up many Antichriſts, as buſie, violent, and rigorous within the ſmall ſpheare of their activity, as the great Antichriſt hath been in his: It would turne Religion into policy, making it ſerve for humane purpoſes.Iam, …. The faith of our glorious Lord Jeſus Chriſt ſhould be had in reſpect of perſons; It would prove a tyrannicall uſurpation over the true Church, as the popiſh policy hath done; for which, as for ſundry other reaſons that might be alleadged (if it were not palpably wicked) it ought not to be ſuffered.

17. Whether there be any place of Scripture to juſtifie ſuch a Separation as is afore mentioned? they ſay, yes; becauſe John the Baptiſt ſaid to the Scribes and Phariſees, O generation of Ʋipers, who hath forewarned you to fire from the wrath to come? therefore a Miniſter may keep out of the Church p. 22ſuch as cannot bring teſtimony of their true converſion and holy converſation; This and other like reaſons they alleadge, which are ſo inſufficient, that they need no anſwer, eſpecially having no purpoſe, as I have ſaid, to diſpute here. But a matter of ſo great conſequence ought to be clearly and foundly proved; which doubtleſſe they can never doe.

18. What times they were wherein the Church did thus ſeparate from it ſelfe all that could not bring ſufficient teſtimony of their converſion and holy converſation? becauſe they ſay, in former times it was the uſuall practice of the Church, but ſhew not in what times, nor where, nor for what cauſes. There is no doubt but thoſe that live or fall into groſſe or manifeſt ſins, may be ſeparated or excluded; Alſo in times of perſecution they would no doubt be very wary what ſtrangers they did admit into the Church; but that's not the thing in queſtion.

19. Many other doubts in this matter they leave untouched or uncleared; As 1. Whether Infants ſhall be received into the Church by Baptiſm before they can bring this teſtimony? 2. Whether thoſe that have been baptized without ſuch teſtimon…, have been rightly entred into the Church, or ſhall need to be baptized againe? ſuch a rumour there is ſpread, upon what occaſion I know not. 3. What manner of teſtimony this muſt be? 4. Who muſt give it, and whether a mans own teſtimony may not ſerve in this caſe, and when? &c. theſe and many other like ſhould be cleared, which we paſſe over.

20. Whether they meane, that any man may of himſelfe excommunicate another, when they ſay frequently, a man may, or I would paſſe a private excommunication againſt ſuch or ſuch a man?

21. What they meane to alter in the adminiſtration of the Sacraments? I heare there is much variety of late. The laſt child which I ſaw baptized, the Miniſter required the Father to ſay his Creed, which done, the Miniſter made an expoſition of it, making ſome doubt alſo of ſome part of it, and then asked the Father if he would have his child baptized into that faith, who anſwering, yea, it was baptized; and thus I heare he uſeth of late to baptize others. Now it would be knowne, why it may not ſerve the turne for the Father to teſtifie his aſſent to the Articles of the Creed &c. as heretofore hath been uſed? 2. Whether the child and parent alſo may not be very uncertaine of the Faith into which the child was baptized▪ ſeeing the Miniſters expoſition is not recorded? 3. Whether they have the ſame opinion of the Creed that they ſeeme to have of the Scriptures, that it may not bee publikely read or repeated unleſſe it be alſo expounded by a Miniſter, and why? 4. Whether this tying of the Baptiſm to the Miniſters expoſition, may not ſerve as a fit opportunity for Hereticks (not yet diſcovered) to baptize children into their Hereſie?

22. Whether the Scriptures be not the word of God, able to make a man wiſe unto ſalvation, … Tim. 3, 15.except only then, when they are pronounced and expounded by a Miniſter? And whether the places of Scripture that we (which are no Miniſters) alledge in any caſe, be not alſo the word of God, as true and of as much ſorce as if they were pronounced by a Miniſter?

p. 2323. Whether the writings of Eminent and approved Divines may not be read in the Church, when there is no Sermon? Nay whether they may not prove more profitable then the Sermons of ſome ſchiſmaticall or other unworthy Miniſters?

24 Whether our Engliſh Common Prayer (having never yet been called in) may not be read in the Church, ſuch things being altered or left out as have bin doubtfull or offenſive to good Chriſtians? Or whether it is ſo faulty that it may not bee uſed at all? Becauſe they will not ſuffer it to bee read at all where they preach; and as I heare, intend to aboliſh the reading of it quite.

25 Whether they will permit any other book of Common Prayer uſed in any other Reformed Church, or ſome other that may be framed, or that no ſet form at all may be uſed but ſuch prayers only as the Miniſter doth then conceive, nor any thing read, no not out of the Scriptures, but what the Miniſter doth then expound?

26 How long it is they mean when they ſay a few dayes, that they would have men that would be converted or receive a further degree of grace to exerciſe themſelves in humiliation, before they ſhall partake of thoſe enlightnings and comforts they ſpeak of? and after what manner this is to be done, and from what ground of Scripture?

27 What Covenant it is which they perſwade ſo much all the members of this Church to enter into at their admittance (and which as is thought is already begunne) whereby they muſt bee bound one to another? and how farre forth they muſt aſſiſt and defend one another? what are the particular parts and circumſtances of this Covenant, and how it ſhall be confirmed, whether by ſubſcription or by ſome ſolemn vow?

28 Whether he which hath entred this Covenant, ſhall ſtill remayn as hee was, a true member of the Church and Common wealth of England, or be of ſome other Reformed Church, or of ſome Separate & Independent Church?

29 We grant there is often mention in Scriptures of a Covenant betwixt God and the people, &c. but whether there may be any warrant in Scripture for ſuch a Covenant between all the members of this Church, as they would have?Acts 9. 26.Acts 9:26 They alleadge for it theſe words, And when Paul was come to Jeruſalem, h… aſſayed to joyn himſelf with the Diſciples: where ſay ſome, the word joyn that is in the originall foreign,Acts 8. 29.Acts 8:29 ſignifies a joyning by covenant; but I finde no ſuch thing in my Lexicon. I finde the like word uſed where it is ſaid, Then the Spirit ſaid unto Phillip, go near and joyn thy ſelf to yonder Chariot; where, by joyning is meant no Covenant. Other places they alleadge, but we would ſee ſome to the purpoſe if they have any.

30 Whether it bee not injurious to the Honourable Aſſembly of Parliament, to pretend ſuch Innovations or changes to be according to their minde, which they have never authorized, nor declared themſelves to have any purpoſe to authorize or allow?

Many other doubts I have omitted, but by theſe which I have noted, is may ſufficiently appeare, that though they have long preached of theſe matters, p. 24yet many things remaine very uncertaine. And if they would take the paines to ſet downe in writing, as aforeſaid, all parts of their intended Diſcipline and Government, it would be very profitable to themſelves; for it would give them occaſion more throughly to conſider it, and more wiſely to order it. Is there cauſe then that they ſhould bee ſo incenſed againſt thoſe that make queſtion of theſe things in a moderate and Chriſtian way? or whom they feare will oppoſe any of them, as to threaten them with the judgments of this life, and of the life to come; yea, to aſſigne them the loweſt places in hell, as if themſelves were well acquainted, and had ſuch power in diſpoſing places there, as the Pope pretends to have in purgatory? Surely we learne in our firſt entrance into learning, Qui dubitat, qui ſaepe rogat, mea dicta tenebit; Is qui nil dubitat, nil capit inde boni. Is it juſt or reaſonable they ſhould accuſe, cenſure, and defame ſuch an one publikely in the Pulpit, where the party accuſed cannot, without offending the Congregation, and the Lawes, anſwer for himſelfe, though he be innocent? Surely in all equity the accuſation, eſpecially of one that is innocent, ought not to be more publike then his defence or anſwer is permitted to be. Is it ſuteable to Chriſtian charity to uſe heavy imprecations or curſings againſt ſuch, and when the hand of God is upon ſuch a man in any affliction, as ſickneſſe loſſes, death, or the like; to ſet him out in the Congregation by evident and well known circumſtances, as an adverſary to God, and as one whom God was now ſmiting to deſtruction for his oppoſition and obſtinacy againſt the Kingdom and Government of Chriſt (as they call this their intended Diſcipline.) Doubtleſſe it behoves Miniſters to have ſome feare of God, and reſpect of man, and to lay aſide theſe carnall weapons, whereby they would affright and terrifie us, that wee ſhould not dare to quitch nor make the leaſt reſiſtance, whilſt in the meane time they ſet up themſelves as Lords over us in their intended Diſcipline, calling it the Kingdom and Govenment of Chriſt; But if they would indeed ſet up the Kingdome of Chriſt,… 6. 17. let them take the ſword of the Spirit, which is the word of God, and make good what they deliver, by that. And for us (as many I meane as have care of the preſervation of true Religion) let us hold faſt to the word of God, and not be diſcouraged; nor let that goe, though they upbraid us in a ſcoffing manner, ſaying, Come you Scripturian…, you Scripturemen that muſt have Scripture for what you will doe; come, I will give you Scripture enough to overthrow your Religion, turne to Ezekiel &c. Theſe and many other ſuch ſpeeches, what elſe doe they relliſh but of a ſpirit of the old Antichriſt, which being now more diſcovered and expelled from his former habitation, walks about through dry places, ſeeking himſelfe an habitation in ſome other perſons and places, where in a new diſguiſe he may practiſe his wonted malice undiſcovered. Let us ſtand faſt in the liberty wherewith Christ ha…h made us free, Gal. 5. 1.Gal 5:1and not be drawne from the Church of England, which we know, to joyne our ſelves with any new ſeparate and Independent Church which we know not; although we heare many contumelious and reproachfull ſpeeches uttered againſt the Church of England. They ought to be better affected, and to give that honour which is due, as they p. 25which have ſucked her breaſts, and received as their naturall, ſo their ſpirituall birth there, if ever they were new born.

We ought to acknowledge, with thankſgiving the aboundant grace and mercy of God towards the Church of England; who hath made it no leſſe honourable then any other Reformed Church whatſoever, whether we conſider the firſt Reformers, being men of fingular Piety, and bleſſed Martyrs of Chriſt; Or the purity of Doctrine there publikely profeſſed even to this preſent. Or the number of holy Martyrs, who have adviſedly ſealed that Doctrine with their blood: Or the eminent lights in the Miniſtry ſucceſſively ſhining there in great number: Or the many and ſincere Profeſſors and Practiſers of Religon there, ever ſince the Reformation; Or laſtly, if we conſider the many great Deliverances which the Lord hath vouchſafed us, from the wicked plots and hoſtile attempts of the common adverſary, crowning all with much proſperity, and cauſing the fame and glory of it to be ſpread throughout the world. Theſe and the like have not been ſeene in their ſeparate and Independent Churches. In the meane time, we deny not, but that beſides our many other grievous ſinnes, there have beene alſo many groſſe faults and intollerable in the Eccleſiaſticall Policy and Diſcipline, as it was abuſed by thoſe that were intruſted with it, and many foule effects have thence proceeded, which have (eſpecially of late yeares) corrupted Religion, eclipſed our glory, and laid it in the duſt, cauſed the Lord to hide his gracious and loving countenance from us: And was like to have proved the remedileſſe ruine of Church and Common-Wealth: Of which ſinnes though wee all ſtand guilty before God, as having been Authors or Procurers of them; yet it becomes not any, that is, or lately was a member of that Church, to upbraid her with theſe things in a deſpightfull manner:Gal. 4. 17.Gal 4:17 Such men according to that ſaying of the Apoſtle, Are jealous over us amiſſe, yea, they would (alienate our affections, and) exclude us (from the Church of England) that we ſhould altogether love them. But theſe corruptions as they have beene for the moſt part forced upon the Church, by the uſurped power of thoſe which were intruſted, and pretended the greateſt care of the Church; ſo they have been, and wee truſt will bee caſt out and Reformed by the preſent Parliament.

Now I would not be miſtaken, as if I deſired to derogate any thing from the dignity of that moſt eminent calling of the Miniſtry; I have no ſuch meaning, neither doe I think a worthy Miniſter to be unworthy or unfit for other the moſt eminent Offices or callings in Church or Commonwealth, were it not that he hath a moſt eminent calling already ſufficient to take up the whole man, and unmeet to be yoaked with other callings, as the Apoſtle ſaith,2 Cor. 2. 16.2 Cor 2:16 who is ſufficient for theſe things; And the Apoſtles doe reject ſuch employments with a kinde of contempt ſaying,Act. 6. 24Acts 6:24 It is not meat that we ſhould leave the word of God to ſerve Tables, and a little after, we will give our ſelves continually to prayer, and to the Miniſtry of the Word, intimating that theſe things would hinder them from prayer and the miniſtry of the Word; whereby it appeares, they would not be Deacons, nor take upon them any other Office in or over the Church, but ſpend themſelves wholly p. 26in the word and prayer; the like might be manifeſted by ſundry other Scriptures. And the evill of it hath beene ſo generally obſerved in England, that (as I heard) Queene Elizabeth, when ſhe had conferred upon a Miniſter authority and power to rule, was wont to ſay, I have ſpoyled a good Preacher to day. And ſurely (if we obſerve it) the deſire of Superiority and Dominion in or over the Church, in Miniſters and Clergy men, and the readineſſe of Princes and people to conferre it upon them; hath been a principall, if not the principall cauſe in corrupting Religion from time to time, and of ſetting up the great Antichriſt, and many others, as might eaſily be ſhewed if it were not an argument too long for this place.

Thus farre (through the gracious aſſiſtance of God) I have expreſſed my minde in this matter, to the intent I might ſtop, ſo much as in me lies, the ſetting up of a new Diſcipline and Government of our owne framing, ſeeing we are already freed of all thoſe things that have uſually beene burthenſome and offenſive to good Chriſtians in England; and that we expect daily the further determination and decree of the Honourable Aſſembly of Parliament in theſe things, Or if I cannot prevaile ſo farre as to ſtop it, yet that wee might look before we leap, and underſtand well what we doe before we doe it. Or if neither that may be obtained, yet hence it will appeare, that my ſelfe and ſome others deſerve no blame, much leſſe ſuch evill ſpeeches as are uſually vented againſt us by ſome, becauſe we will not raſhly runne with them we know not whether. And laſtly, I deſire that this may be a publike teſtimony of my judgement in theſe things. For to be preſent, and heare them daily preſſed, and to bee alwayes ſilent, is taken for a ſigne of conſent and approbation.

March 1. 1642. RICH. NORWOOD.