Reply to Rutherford, Treatise · Chapter 1
CHAP. I.
Of Appeales from particular Congregations and the true cauſe of Appeales; and whether by Mr. Rutherford his doctrine in this point there may not be Appeales to generall Councils, whoſe power of Iu…iſdiction he doth yet deny.
FIrſt of all in his Page 315. (for that is the firſt place wherein I find him medling with the Anſwer) ſpeaking of doubts concerning Math. 18. 17. Tell the Church; In a 9.th Objection about that Scripture, beſides other particulers hee hath theſe words, viz. There is no reaſon to appeale to a higher Iudicature becauſe the inferiour may erre, becauſe all above a Congregation are Courts which may erre; Presbyteries Provinciall, Nationall, the univerſall Councill of the Catholicke Church may erre: And then for author of this part of the Objection hee ſubjoyneth my Name, and Anſwer to Mr. Herle, Cap. 2. pag. 13, 14.
Anſw. When hee is diſcourſing of doubts concerning that Scripture, Math 18. Tell the Church, I know no reaſon why hee ſhould bring thoſe words of mine at ſuch a time or for ſuch a purpoſe. For though I doe acknowledge that I wrote the words which hee hath ſet downe or ſuch like, in the place by him alledged; yet that they were brought by me for ſuch purpoſe as hee doth report (viz. For the cleering of Doubts concerning the meaning of Math. 18 17.) that I doe utterly deny. He that ſhall looke upon the Chapter and Pages alledged, will find that I doe not there meddle at all with that Scripture, either for one purpoſe or another; and therefore cannot be truly ſaid to have uſed the words alledged, in way of cleering Doubts concerning the ſame. And albeit in another place, (cap. 3. pag. 22. et ſequ.) I doe purpoſely ſpeake to that Scripture; yet in that place there is no mention at all of the words by him alledged nor of any ſuch like, and where ſuch words are to be found, there that Scripture is not mentioned at all. Now who knoweth not that a man may be much wronged, when the words which hee hath ſpoken are taken and applyed to ſuch a purpoſe, for which he did never bring them nor intend them.
But to let this paſſe, let us heare what our Reverend Author ſaith againſt the words alledged, in his Anſwer.
The cauſe of Appeales, ſaith he, is not becauſe inferiour Iudicatures may erre, for ſo wee might appeale from all Iudicatures, even from a generall Councill, for it may erre, Pag. 315. lin. ult.
Anſw. Is not this the very ſame that was ſaid in the Anſwer, Pag. 13, 14. The pages which hee here undertakes to anſwer, is it not there ſaid; As for Claſſicaticall Provinciall, and Nationall Synods, there is none of theſe but thoſe Caſes of deficiency and poſſibility of Partiality may befall the beſt of them; and therefore if for theſe cauſes the ſingle Congregations may not be indep…ndant, but there may be Appeales from them, the Synods being ſubject to the like, there may bee liberty of Appeales from them alſo—. For as the Congregations may be partiall and erre, ſo we ſuppoſe it will not be denyed but the Claſſis may erre, the Provinciall Synod may erre, the Nationall may erre, yea generall Councils may erre; and ſo by this reaſon not Synods nor generall Councils may have entireneſſe of Juriſdiction, but there may be liberty of Appeales from them alſo. Theſe are our words in thoſe very Pages which here Mr. Rutherford pretends to Anſwer and diſprove or confute. But in ſtead of a Confutation we ſee we have nothing but a plaine Confeſſion or affirmation of his owne, that the thing is even ſo as was affirmed by us before. Now why hee ſhould make a ſhow of taking away or weak'ning that which we had ſaid, and then in ſtead of accompliſhing what he undertakes, to doe no more but onelyonly to ſay the ſame thing againe which wee had ſaid before, what reaſon I ſay he had for this I know not; but plaine it is that for the particular in hand, the Anſwer which he pretends to weaken, is not yet weakned at all, but rather ſtrengthned and confirmed by his apparent yeelding the Cauſe, and affirming the ſame that was before affirmed by us.
But ſaith hee Pag. 316. The true cauſe (viz. of Appealing to higher Courts) is, 1. Becauſe they doe not ſo frequently erre. 2. They are not ſo inclined and diſpoſed to erre; for many eyes ſee more then one, and doe more ſeldome miſcarry in taking up the right Object: 3. Becauſe wee conceive more equality and leſſe partiality in higher Courts.
Anſw. Theſe three Reaſons ſeeme much what the ſame, or to hang one upon another; for therefore they doe more ſeldome erre becauſe they are not ſo diſpoſed and inclined to erre, and they are not ſo inclined becauſe they are more in number, and becauſe there is in them more equality and leſſe partiality: So that upon the matter it is but one reaſon, viz. becauſe though they may erre, yet not ſo frequently and likely as the Congregation.
Yet (be they three Reaſons, or be they but one) let us conſider what force there is in this ſa…ing to take away entireneſſe of Iuriſdiction from a Congregation, and to eſtabliſh the neceſſity of appealing from the ſame unto a Synod, for this is the thing that ſhould be cleared.
Firſt of all it may be a queſtion, whether Synods doe more ſeldome erre then the Presbyteries of Congregations: And the reaſon of the doubt is; becauſe the Promiſe of the preſence of Ch…ſt is not made meerly to multitude or greatneſſe of number; but if they bee but two or three gathered together in his Name, his Promiſe is that hee will be preſent in the midſt of them, Math. 18. 20. Now the Promiſe of his preſence being to ſo ſmall a number gathered together in his Name, why may not a Congregation and its Presbyterie being ſo gathered, though they be a leſſer number then Synods and Councels; yet bee partakers of the benefit of this Promiſe, for the preſerving of them from Error, as well as thoſe greater Aſſemblies? … not but in multitude of Counſellers there is ſafety: nor doe I doubt but Synods and Council… gathered together in the Name of Chriſt, may expect the per…ance of this Promiſe of our Saviours preſence: But the thing I doubt of is this, whether a Congregationall Church of Saints, furniſhed with an able and …aithfull Presbyterie (for of ſuch onelyonly doe I ſpeake) may not by vertue of this Promiſe bee as frequently preſerved fro… Error as thoſe greater Aſſemblies of Synods and Councils, Poſito that the Synods and Counci…ls did as frequently come together as the Congregation doth: For otherwiſe I grant, the Synods meeting more ſeldome may erre more ſeldome: but let the Compariſon be equall in reſpect of the time of Aſſembling and comming together, and then I doubt whether Synods … preſerved from Error any oftener then the fore-mentioned leſſer Aſſemblies.
It is well knowne what N…zianzen ſaid of Synods or Councils in his time, viz. That hee had never ſeene good and happie end of any of them, and that evils were not ſo much redreſſed as increaſed thereby. Epiſt. ad Procop…um, Quae Eſt numere 42. Referr. Whitak De Concill. Q. 1. cap. 3. True it is, Nazianzen lived as Dr. Whi… obſerveth, Peſſimis & turbulentiſſimia Eccleſiae Temporibus, in very corrupt and troubleſome Titues, when by reaſon that Valens the Emperour was averſe from the Truth, H…retickes much prevailed and Corruptions greatly increaſed; and this might make the good man ſomething more to diſlike all Councils then there was cauſe. Nevertheleſſe his words doe apparently witneſſe, that in his time Synods and Councils did not ſeldome erre but very often; ſo that hee for his part had never ſeene good that had come by any of them. Then which ſaying I ſuppoſe one would not ſpeake more hardly of a particular Congregation and its Presbyterie; and therefore by this teſtimony of his my doubt is increaſed; whether the matter be in … Mr. Rutherford doth ſay, viz. That Synods and Councils doe Rariùs erra…, more ſeldome erre then ſuch a particular Congregation as here I am ſpeaking of.
But ſuppoſe it were ſo as hee doth affirme (and I will not deny it, onelyonly as I ſaid I doubt of it) yet I doe not ſee what great matter hee can gaine thereby for the furthering of his purpoſe, that there muſt be liberty of Appeales from particular Congregations unto Claſſes and Synods, as unto higher Courts. For if this be the reaſon … ſuch Appeales, becauſe ſuch Aſſemblies doe more ſeldome erre, becauſe many eyes doe ſee more, and doe more ſeldome miſcary in taking up the right object; Then it will follow that the greateſt Aſſemblies, in as much as they have the moſt eyes, doe of all others moſt ſeldome erre, and ſo to them there muſt bee the moſt Appeales. For the learned Author well knowes, à quatenùs ad Omni… valet conſequentia. And ſo by this meanes the true cauſe and reaſon of Appeales lying (according to Mr. Rutherford his apprehenſion) in the rareneſſe and ſeldomneſſe of erring in ſuch Aſſemblies to whom appeales are made, and the cauſe of this ſeldomneſſe of Erring lying in the multitude and great number of eyes in ſuch Aſſemblies, it muſt needs thereupon follow, that Vniverſall or generall Councils as having in them the moſt eyes, are the Aſſemblies that doe moſt ſeldome erre, and ſo un…o them there muſt be moſt Appeales. Which if it be gran…ed, the Claſſicall, …, and Nationall Synods, are all by this meanes deprived and ſtri…t of … of …diction as well as the particular Congregations, the Synods by … to generall Councils, as to thoſe that doe ra…iùs c…rare, aſwell as the … appeales unto the Synods: And ſo thera muſt be no entireneſſe of … onelyonly in the generall Councils, but from all other Synods there muſt … liberty of Appeales, aſwell as from the Congregation. This Conſequence for ought I ſee doth unavoidably follow upon that which Mr. Rutherford lay undowne as the cauſe of Appealing from a particular Congregation: and ſo ou… Brethren by this meanes have ſpun a fine thred, drawing forth a Concluſion which is every what as prejudiciall to their owne Cauſe as to ours.
If any aske why may not this Conſequence be owned? Why may wee not ſay, there muſt bee liberty of Appeales from all Synods and Presbyteries, except onelyonly the generall Councill? The Anſwer is, th…t wee may not ſo ſay; becauſe then Cauſes would be too long depending a…ore they could come to iſſue, yea perhaps would never come to iſſue as long as this world ſhall endure: For by this Rule they may by Appeales upon appeales be protracted untill they be brought to a generall Councill to be determined there. Now as there hath not beene any ſuch Councill for many Ages by-paſt, ſo it is very uncertaine when there will be one aſſembled, whether ever or never whilſt this world ſtands. But wee thinke Christ Jeſus hath provided better for his Church then ſo, and hath not appointed ſuch a neceſſitie of Appeales upon appeales, but that Cauſes may bee determined afore any generall Councill can be aſſembled.
Beſides, if ſuch Aſſemblies might be frequently attained, yet it is not yet cleered, that when they are aſſembled they have any power of Iuriſdiction at all; but onelyonly a Doctrinall power to cleare up the Rule, the power of Iuriſdiction remaining in ſome other Aſſembly. Sure it is, Mr. Rutherford thus teacheth expreſly, for his words are theſe; Verily I profeſſe I cannot ſee what power of Juriſdiction to Cenſure ſcandals can be in a generall Councill; there may bee ſome meerly Doctrinall power if ſuch a Councill could be had, and that is all. Due Right, &c. pag. 482. and in the end of the ſame Page and beginning of the next, ſpeaking of thoſe words, Math. 18. Tell the Church, hee ſaith thus; Becauſe ordinary Communion faileth when you goe higher then a Nationall Church, and Christ's way ſuppoſeth an ordinary Communion—; therefore I deny that this remedy is needfull in any Church above a Nationall Church. By which ſayings it appeareth, that he counts Chriſts remedy to Cenſure Scandals not needfull in a generall Councill, yea and hee ſeriouſly profeſſeth, that hee cannot ſee that ſuch a Councill if it could bee had, hath any power of Iuriſdiction at all to cenſure Scandals. Which being ſo, it muſt needs follow, that Scandals muſt be cenſured, and Cauſes ended ſomewhere elſe, afore they can come … ſuch end to a generall Councill. And if this bee ſo, then how can that ſtand which here hee affirmeth, that the true cauſe of Appealing to Synods in this; becauſe they doe rariùs errare, more ſeldome Erre, then the particuler Congregation, and having many eyes doe more ſeldome miſcarry in taking up the right object: For this Cauſe is moſt properly appliable to the generall Councill, unto whom notwithſtanding hee denies any power of Iuriſdiction to cenſure Scandals; and if they h…ve no ſuch Power, there can bee no Appeales to them for ſuch purpoſe and end.
And how theſe things can ſtand toget…er, That the true cauſe of Appeales to ſuch or ſuch Aſſemlies doth he in this, that they doe more ſeldome erre as having many eyes, and yet that to generall Councils there ſhould be no Appeales at all, as having no power of Iuriſdiction, though of all others this Cauſe be moſt properly …ound in them, I for my part doe confeſſe I doe not underſtand.
If any ſhall ſay, that as Mr. Ruthe…ford doth make that which I have mentioned the true cauſe of Appeales, ſo hee doth alſo hold a Power of Iuriſdiction even in generall Councils; and ſhall therefore doubt whether I doe truly report him … touch the contrary, I would wiſh no more favour of ſuch a one but to peruſe the places which I have here above alledged, and then I hope hee will …nd the words to bee no otherwiſe, but as I have ſet them downe.
I know indeed there are ſome places in him which doe looke another way; as that where hee ſaith, It is by accident and not through want of inuat… and intrinſecall power, that the Court of a Catholick Councill can not in an ordinary and conſtant way exerciſe that Power which now we are ſpeaking of Due Right, page 308. And a little after hee ſaith, He ſeeth nothing to prove that a generall Councill hath not power to Excommunicate a Nationall Church. Yea and further, that if there were a generall Councill at this d…y, they might lawfully in a Iuridicall way (ſo are his words) doe that to the faction of Romiſh pretended Catholicks; which hee ſaith, is Excommunication in the eſſence and ſubſtance of th… Act. And in the Page next enſuing he ſaith, This of our Saviour, Tell the Church, is neceſſarily to be applyed to all Churches and Courts of Christ, even to a Catholick Councill. Theſe Places I confeſſe doe ſeeme to me not very well to agree with the either afore alledged: For in the one he plainly affirmes, there is in generall Councils power of Iuriſdiction to cenſure Scanda…s, and in the other hee doth as plainly deny the ſame. But it is the former places and not theſe latter which I doe ſtand upon; in which former as I conceive him to hold the truth, ſo for ought I ſee, that which hee ſaith in this place wee have in hand about the true cauſe of Appealing from Congregations to Synods is much infirmed thereby. For how can that be taken to be the true cauſe of Appeales, which is moſt properly found in ſuch Aſſemblies (I me…ne in generall Councils) unto whom as having no Power of Iuriſdiction, there muſt be no ap…eales at all?
To conclude this Chapter: When wee doe enquire about Power of appealing, and unto what Courts appeales muſt be brought, our way is not to ſeeke for ſuch …ourts as cannot Erre, for ſuch wee ſhall never find; nor for ſuch as we thinke will more ſeldome erre, as Mr. Rutherford would have it; for that Rule is alſo ſubject to much uncertainty and exception, as hath beene already declared. But the beſt way is to enquire where the Lord JESƲS hath placed the Power of the laſt and finall cenſuring and determining of Cauſes, and when that is found therewith to reſt contented. And as for Synods and Councils, it is neither their not Erring, nor their ſeldome erring that can bee a ſuffi…ient argument to place the Power of Iuriſdiction in them; unleſſe the Lord Ieſus had ſo appointed and ordained, which yet doth not appeare.
And ſo much for this firſt place, wherein our Brother deales againſt the Anſwer.