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The New Query and Determination Upon It · John Ley

The New Query and Determination Upon It, Section 5

SECT. V. The Argument againſt the ſpeedy ſetling of Church Government taken from example of the New Teſtament in generall anſwered.

A *§ 3. p. 3, 4.Third head of exceptions againſt the ſpeedy (ſo he calls it Paragraph 5. though the word haſtily pleaſe him better in the body of the Quere) ſetting up of Government is taken from Chriſtian examples.

Contrary to

1. The New Teſtament in generall

2. In particular to

1. The example of Chriſt, and that two wayes, in reſpect

1. Of his deſcription, §. 6. p. 4.

2. Of his practiſe, §. 3. p. 3, 4.

2. The example of the moſt ancient Chriſtians, and excellent Miniſters of Chriſt.

1. As of John Baptiſt; Chriſts forerunner.

2. The Apoſtles his followers.

1. For the generall; § 4. p. 4.We never read in the New Teſtament of a Government ſetled upon any, that were not brought firſt under Gospel obedience by the power of the Word and Spirit, which thouſands of Congregations in this Kingdome are not; for as in materiall buildings, ſtone and timber are not to be clapt together without hewing and ſquaring, ſo not in the ſpirituall; and whereas in the Temple there ſhould be neither axe nor hammer heard, becauſe things were fitted before hand, and ſo laid together, I queſtion how this could be in our Congregations now; I beleeve there would be now more of the axe and hammer heard, then of the building ſeen….

Anſwer.

1. Here he argueth from the example of the New Teſtament negatively; which, (conſidering the difference and diſproportion of the times) is very impertinent. For the converſion we read of in the New Teſtament was from Paganiſme and Judaiſme to Chriſtianitie; and while men were Iewes or Pagans, they were uncapable of a Chriſtian Government; our Congregations in England conſiſt of profeſſed Chriſtians; who, as ſuch, are capable of, and lyable to a Goſpel Government, without which the ſanctification of the Sabbath, the preaching of the Word cannot be well ordered, nor either of the Sacraments rightly adminiſtred.

And though in thouſands of Congregations there be many whom the power of the Word and Spirit hath not brought to Goſpel obedience, it is no cauſe why a Goſpel Government ſhould not be eſtabliſhed over them; nay rather it is reaſon why it ſhould be haſtened upon them; and we may impute the profaneneſſe of the people to the want of it, or of ſome parts of it, whereby Church Governours may be enabled to put a difference betwixt the holy and the profane, the uncleane and the cleane, Ezek. 22.26. For the rod of Diſcipline, 1 Cor. 4.21. may have a ſalutary operation in the Church, as the rod of correction in the family, Prov. 23.13, 14.

2. He makes a compariſon betwixt a materiall and a ſpiritual building; See § 11.as in the materiall building ſtone and timber are not to be clapt together without hewing, and ſquaring, ſo not in the ſpirituall; of which words (if I rightly underſtand them) the meaning is, that Churches muſt be gathered and made up onelyonly of holy, reformed Chriſtians, which are as hewen or ſquared ſtones; to which I anſwer:

1. That ſimilitudes may illuſtrate a truth proved, or to be proved, but they prove nothing.

2. That conformity betwixt materiall and ſpirituall things is not to be carried too far; ſimilitudes, (as the common ſaying is) run not on foure feet.

3. There is this difference betwixt the building of the ſpirituall and material Temple, that in the ſpiritual there is nothing but what is homogencall, and of one kind, all ſquared and living ſtones, but in the materiall the foundation and walls are made up not onelyonly of hewen and ſquared ſtones, but of others, yea many pieces of ſtone which are but as rubbiſh, have their uſe in the materiall building.

4. And yet wee may ſay of thoſe whom hee accounts rough and unhewen ſtones, that they are in part ſquared towards a conformity to the reſt of the building (in that they ſubmit to the Goſpell rule in many particulars) though they be not ſo exactly ſquared, or ſo perfectly poliſhed as others.

5. VponUpon this difference the beſt ſtones are not to be taken from the reſt to make up a building by themſelves, as in ſeparated Congregations many pretend, but performe not; for of thoſe who ſeparate from others as from profane perſons, divers are not onelyonly rather gilded Hypocrites then golden Chriſtians; but they are ſundry of them ſuch as for want of charity and humility Chriſt would not owne for his diſciples, Ioh. 13.35. Matth. 11.29. and who for railing and covetouſneſſe, and other raigning ſinnes of an haynons guilt ought to be diſcarded from Chriſtian ſociety, as well as a fornicator, a drunkard, or an idolator, 1 Cor. 5.11.

Laſtly, To conclude with a Negative Argument from the Now Teſtament, as he began his fourth Paragraph, (and againſt him it is good Logick, as an Apocryphall Text is good proofe againſt a Papiſt.) Let him ſhew any example of ſuch a ſeparation as he aymes at, in the New Teſtament; where when there was a mixture of holy and prophane, (as there was in the Church of Corinth, 1 Cor. 11.21.) the Apoſtles, or Evangelicall perſons, gathered out the holy part to make a ſeparated Church from the r…ſt, as many doe now adayes.

That which followeth, concerning Axes and Hammers not heard in the building of the Temple of Salomon, hath a myſterious truth in it, but not to the purpoſe for which he produceth it; for it importeth that the ſpirituall Temple is built up chiefly by the ſoft whiſperings and ſecret motions of the Spirit; whereof men heare no noyſe, nor can take notice; and what is this to what hee would have?