Answer to the Animadversions on the Dissertations, Treatise · Chapter 4

Answer to the Animadversions on the Dissertations · Treatise · Chapter 4

p. 80CHAP. IIII.

Concerning the power of the People in appointing Biſhops, and Deacons, and other Eccleſiaſtical affairs.

Sect. 1.

Clement's words, foreign, conſidered, and vindicated. foreign. The firſt Biſhops deſigned particularly by God. When this way of deſignation ceaſed.

Num. 1. UPon occaſion of the former citation of ſome words out of Clemens, the diſpleaſure is for a while removed from Ignatius, and another matter of diſcourſe is ſprung, concerning the power of the people in appointing Biſhops and Deacons to their office in thoſe dayes. To this we ſhall now attend, as it follows, in theſe words.

2. It ſeemes moreover that thoſe Biſhops and Deacons in thoſe dayes (as was obſerved) were appointed to the office by an… with the conſent of the people, or whole body of the Church; no leſs doe thoſe words import, foreign. Our Doctor indeed …enders thoſe words, ap…l…uden… aut congratulen…e … and addes (…atis pro imperio) ui…l …ic dea ceptation… ▪ otius Eccleſiae, … q… …p ſ…os & Diaconos ab Apoſtolis & …p…ſtoli…is vi… hoc l…co concludit B…ond…lus, qu…ſi qui ex De…j…ſsu & app…obatione conſt…n…ur, populi etiam acceptatione indigere putandi eſſent, Diſſent. 4. …. 7, 8, … And who dares take that confidence upon him, as to affirm any mo…e▪ wh… …g … a Doctor hath denved? Though the ſcope of the place, the nature of the thing, and firſt moſt common ſenſe of the word here uſe…, being willingly to conſent (as it is alſo uſed in the Scripture for the moſt part, Acts …. 1. 1 Cor. 7. 12.) to a thing to be done, or to the doing of it, yet here it muſt bee taken to applaud or congratulate, or what elſe our Doctor pleaſes, becauſe he will have it ſo. foreign alſo muſt be viri Apoſtolici m…n with Apoſtolical power, when they are only the choice men of the Church where ſuch a Conſtitution of Office…s is had, that are intended, becauſe it is ou… Doctors purpoſe to have the words ſo rendred: Ex juſsu Dei & approbatione, is added, as though any particular command or approbation of God were intimated, for the conſtitution of the Biſhops and Deacons mention'd, beyond the inſtitution of the Lord Jeſus Chriſt, that Elders p. 81ſhould be ordained in every Church, becauſe this would ſeem to be excluſive wholly of the conſent of the people, as any way needfull or required to their Conſtitution, which yet, as it is practically falſe, no ſuch thing being mention'd by Clemens, who recounteth the way and means whereby Officers were continued in the Church, even after the deceaſe of the Apoſtles, and thoſe firſt ordained by them to that holy employment, ſo alſo it is argumentatively weak and unconcluding. God appointed, deſigned Saul to be King, approving of his ſo being, and yet he would have the people come together to chooſe him. So alſo was it in the caſe of David. Though the Apoſtles in the name and the authority of God, appointed the Deacons of the Church at Jeruſalem, yet they would have the whole Church look out among themſelves the men to be appointed. And that the ordaining of the Elders was with the peoples Election, Acts 14. 23. It will ere long be manifeſted, that neither our Doctor, nor any of his Aſſociates have as yet diſproved. This poor thing the people, being the peculiar people of Chriſt, the heritage of God, and holy Temple unto him, &c. will one day be found to be another manner of thing, than many of our great Doctors have ſuppoſed. But he informs us, cap 4 ſect. 3. from that teſtimony which we cited before, that the Apoſtles in the appointment of Biſhops and Deacons (for ſo the words expreſly are) are ſayd foreign, i. e. ſaith he, Revelationibus edo…to… eſſe, quibus demùm baec dignitas comm…icanda eſſet, that is, that they appointed thoſe whom God revealed to them in an extraordinary manner to be ſo ordained, and this is the meaning of foreign. And why …o…he holy Ghoſt orders concerning the appointment of Deacons foreign, 1 Tim. 3. 10. That thoſe, who are to be taken into office and power in the Church, had need firſt to be tryed & approved, is granted. And this work the Apoſtles give to the multitude of the Church, Acts 6. Where yet after the peoples Election, and the Apoſtles approbation, and the tryall of both, one that was choſen, is ſuppoſed to have proved none of the beſt. And yet of him, and them, are the Apoſtles ſaid by Clemens that they did foreign. But how ſhall it be made to appear, that ſpiritu proba…te…, trying of proving by the ſpirit, or ſpiritually proving them, to try whether they were able Miniſters of the New Teſtament, not of the Letter but of the Spirit, proving them by that Spirit, which was promiſed unto them to lead them into all truth, muſt needs ſignifie, they were taught whom they ſhould appoint by immediate Revelation. To prove by the Spirit, or ſpiritually the perſons that are to be made Miniſters or Biſhops, is to have their names revealed to us. Stephen is ſaid to ſpeake foreign, Acts 6. 10. And Paul purpoſed foreign, Acts 19. 21. and we are ſaid to ſerve God foreign Gal. 5. 5. and to make ſupplication foreign, Eph. 6. 18. with many more expreſſions of the like nature. Does all this relate to immediate Revelation, and are all things done thereby which we are ſaid to doe in the ſpirit? Before p. 82wee were inſt ucted in this myſtery, and were informed that foreign did ſignifie to be taught by Revelation, we had thought that the expreſſion of doing any thing foreign had manifeſted the aſſiſtance, guidance, and direction, which for the doing of it we receive by the holy and bleſſed Spirit of God promiſed unto us, and beſtowed on, in, and through the Lord Jeſus Chriſt. Yea but he adde… that it is alſo ſpoken of the Apoſtles, foreign praecognitionem (i. e.) revelationem foreign they appointed them Biſhops and Deacons by the helps and preſence of the Spirit with them, the Apoſtles examined, tried thoſe who were to be appointed Biſhops, ſo obtaining and receiving a perfect foreknowledge or knowledge of them before their admiſſion into office. This alſo expreſſes revelation (foreign) upon tryall it was revealed unto them, and ſo muſt any thing elſe be allowed to be, that our Doctor will have to be ſo, now he is aſſerting to that purpoſe. But had the foreign, who appointing Biſhops and Deacons after the Apoſtles time, had they alſo this ſpeciall Revelation? Or may they not be ſaid foreign? If not, how will you looke upon them under the notion of foreign, who neglected ſo great a duty: If they did, let us know when this way of conſtituting Church Officers by immediate revelation ceaſed, and what was afterwards took up in the room thereof: and who they were that firſt proceeded on another account, and on what Authority they did it? There are a generation of men in the world, will thank the Doctor for this inſinuation, and will tye knots upon it, that will trouble him to looſe.

3. I ſhall not here ſuffer my ſelf to be detein'd by the ſcoffes and accuſations of affirming pro imperio, &c. with which I am very liberally treated, but, withall, before this time. ſo familiarly acquainted, that I can look on them as parts of his ſtyle, as idioms of his Dialect, and nothing elſe. All that can pertain to me, by way of vindication, is, intirely to ſet down what it is I have ſaid, and then to remove whatſoever appearance of reply, or objection I can here diſcern to be made to it.

4. Upon theſe words of Clement [foreign] delivered about the ordaining or conſtituting of Biſhops by the Apoſtles and other foreign, D. Blondel had inferr'd this concluſion [Epiſcopos & Diaconos Apoſtolis Apoſtoliciſ que viris, nunquam niſi totâ acceptante Eccleſiâ conſtitutos eſſe] that Biſhops and Deacons were never conſtituted by the Apoſtles or Apoſtolical perſons, unleſſe the whole Church p. 83accepted them.] This concluſion he thus crudely inferr'd, without any one ſyllable added to confirme it, leaving it to ſecure and ſuſtein it ſelfe by theſe few words of Clement's teſtimony.

5. The teſtimony, wherein thoſe words were conteined, being by me laid down at length, and conſidered as far as was uſefull to the maine Queſtion concerning Epiſcopacie, I could not fitly take farther notice of thoſe few words of it, and his concluſion haſtily collected from them, than to ſay that there was nothing in it concerning the neceſſity of that acceptation of the Church, which Blondel conc…uded thence; And this I choſe to doe foreign, in paſſing, and in a parentheſis, not willing to detaine the Reader any longer ſo impertinently, adding onelyonly a ſhort reaſon, why I could not conceive that the Biſhops by them conſtituted could want the apprebation of the Church, becauſe it had formerly been ſaid of them by Clement, that they were conſtituted by the appointment and approbation of God, which I ſuppoſed muſt neceſſarily ſuperſede all want of the Churches approbation. And upon theſe grounds I rendred the phraſe foreign, not as D. Blondel had done, acceptante ſimul universâ Eccleſiâ, but applaudente aut congratulante totâ Eccleſiâ, the whole Church applauding or congratulating.

6. In this paſſage thus truly related, in every circumſtance, I hope 'tis already cleare, that I was not guilty of any imperious or magiſterial affirming (which I diſlike ſo much in others, that I would be very ſorry to be found guilty of it) when to a poſitive unconfirm'd concluſion, I made reply by giving my reaſon, why I could not conſent that it was duly inferr'd from thoſe words in Clement.

7. And for the thing it ſelfe, the matter of my affirming, being now excited to it, I ſhall give a full account of it, though there it had been impertinent to doe ſo.

8. And that 1. by conſidering the force of the word foreign, 2. the poſition of it in that place, 3. the circumſtances of the context, which preclude Blondel's, and inforce my interpretation.

9. The word foreign] is known to ſignifie [being well pleaſed] p. 84ſo foreign is either ſimply the ſame, or with the connotation of a relation to ſome other, whether perſons or matter, formerly ſpoken of. So 1 Mac. 1. 57. foreign, if any were well pleaſed with the Law, i. e. reſolved to live according to the Moſaicall inſtitution, ſuch as are there joyn'd with thoſe with whom was found the Book of the Testament, that they would not forſake the Jewiſh obſervances upon Antiochus his prohibition of them. So againe the ſame ſort of men which would not live according to the Kings heatheniſh commands, but kept cloſe to the Jewiſh lawes, are ſaid foreign, not to be well pleaſed with the change, 1 Mac. 11. 24. we render it in both places conſenting and not conſenting, but ſure it ſignifies not any legal conſent asked of them, at the conſtituting either of the Law by God, or of the change by Antiochus, but an acquieſſence, or peaceable, willing, conſtant ſubmiſſion and obedience to it. Elſewhere we render it being well pleaſed with, 2 Mac. 11. 35. where yet the matter ſpoken of, makes it a more formal act of conſent, than in either of the former it had been. Whatſoever (ſay the Conſuls) Lyſias hath granted, foreign, therewith we alſo are well pleaſed, which indeed is a confirmation of Lyſias's act or grant.

10. Theſe are all the places where the word in that double compoſition is found in the Greek, whether Canonical or Apocryphal of the Old Teſtament. In the New we have it, Luc. 11. 48. where of the Jewes it is ſaid, that they did foreign, allow, or approve their Fathers works, thoſe which they had done long ſince, and wherein their approbation was never asked, the killing of the Prophets, ver. 47. So Act. 8. 1. of Sauls concurrence in Saint Stephens death, ſo far as to keep the clothes of the executioners, which ſignified him to have been an active perſon in that murther, to have had a ſpecial liking to it, not again any act of legal conſent; for all was there done without legal proceſſe, judicio zelotarum, by the (judgment, or rather) popular fury of Zel…ts. So again Rom. 1. 32. foreign, They take pleaſure, ſay we, in them that doe them. There I think Theophylact's Scholion is very proper, foreign, they not onelyonly doe unlawfull p. 85things themſelves, but plead for wickedneſſe, are advocates for thoſe that commit any the fouleſt evill. So againe 1 Cor. 7. 12. of the Chriſtian man or woman that hath an unbeliever to wife or husband, foreign, if the unbelieving man be pleaſed, think good, be content to live with the Chriſtian, or if we render it againe conſent, yet ſure we muſt not mean any legal conſent, for that had been formerly given in marriage, and no new act of it is now needfull in the unbeliever, but onelyonly a being content to continue to live with her, which is there oppoſed to departing, v. 15.

11. By this view of the word in the Scripture, it already appears, how little ground there is for D. Blondel's rendring of foreign by acceptante, and his concluſion deduced from thence of the neceſſity of the wh…le Churches acceptation. And againſt that onelyonly it was that my words were directed, nihil hic de acceptatione—there was no ſyllable in Clemens from whence to conclude the neceſſity of ſuch acceptation. And unleſſe I have miſtaken in this, certainly there is neither confidence nor magiſteriall affirming imputable to me in this matter.

12. And it ſeems the Prefacer doth as little adhere to Blondel's rendring, as I, for he renders it [willing conſent] And how knowes he that I reject this rendring of willing conſent, or that if Blondel had ſo rendred it, I would then have rejected it. Truly if that conſent ſignifie no more than a voluntary act of acquieſſence and good liking (as conſent ordinarily ſignifies) I have no diſlike to that rendring, onelyonly I rather think the word here ſignifies a little more not leſſe) an outward expreſſion of this good liking, which was the onelyonly reaſon which moved me to uſe the phraſe [applaudente aut congratulante] meaning thereby that the Church had expreſt that good liking and joy of theirs, which is more than their bare co…ſent to what was done in the constitution of their Biſhops.

13. So that the Praefacer needed not to have undertaken this verbal contention with me, about the ſignification of an ordinary word. In that he really is at more peace with me, than it ſeems he knew of, and ſo men are apt to be, which begin and purſue …uarrells, ſo haſtily and ſo keenly.

p. 8614. The truth is, it is the matter of the concluſion which I then reſiſted in Blondel, and ſo muſt ſtill in the Praefacer; Blondel made the people's acceptation, a ſine quâ non, a neceſſary condition, affirming that Biſhops, &c. were never conſtituted by the Apoſtles and Apostolical men, niſi, unleſſe they had this, which, I ſuppoſe, makes the peoples acceptation praevious to the Apoſtles act, for if it followed after, it can be of no moment, the Act of the Apoſtles was compleat without it, and ſtood valid without it, and though it was moſt happy when it followed, yet ſtill this, as any other conſequent, muſt be accidentall and intrinſecall to the Conſtitution of Biſhops, as that which advenit enti in actu exiſtenti, comes to it when it is (which is the definition of an accident) is no way required to, or conſtitutive of its being.

15. And ſo in like manner this Prefacer alſo, though he pretend onelyonly to the conſent of the people, yet by ſaying that the Biſhops were appointed to their office by the conſent] and by his after mention of his notion of foreign, for conſent to a thing to be done, or to the doing of it, and laſtly by expreſſing his ſenſe of this conſent of the people, as of a thing needfull, or required to the conſtitution of thoſe Biſhops, I am aſſured that he affirms this conſent of the people, to have been required and needfull antecedently to the Apoſtles inſtituting Biſhops at that time.

16. And this is the thing that I ſtill profeſſe not to believe concluſible from the words of Clement, and whether it be or no, let us now examine by proceeding to the ſecond, and third things, even now propos'd by me, the poſition of this phraſe, and the circumſtances of the context in this place of Clemens.

17. The poſition of the phraſe may firſt deſerve to be taken notice of, foreign Thoſe that were conſtituted by the Apoſtles or after by other illuſtrious perſons, the whole Church expreſſing their good liking or conſent, and that have officiated without blame, and been well reported of by all for a long time, &c. Here in ſetting downe p. 87the unreaſonableneſſe of the ſedition raiſed againſt their Biſhops, he aggravates it by theſe gradations, 1. that theſe Biſhops were conſtituted by the Apoſtles or other illuſtrious perſons after them, 2. that when they were ſo conſtituted, the whole Church liked it very well, and expreſt their liking it, I mean the conſtituting them by the Apoſtles, 3. that being in office they had without blame diſcharged it, 4. that for a long time they had every mans good word, though now they were ejected by them.

18. By this diſtinct view of the words 'tis plaine, that the whether conſent or good liking, which the people thus expreſt, was after the Apostles conſtituting them, as after that again their officiating, and after their officiating their continued approbation. And indeed it were as reaſonable to affirme, the ſecond teſtimony or approbation [foreign, &c.] to be praevious to their blameleſſe officiating [foreign] as to ſay their conſent was needfull or required to their conſtitution, as to the thing to be done, for that alſo ſuppoſeth it praevious to it.

19. This was a competent ſecurity to me, that my rejecting Blondel's concluſion, was no Magiſterial dictate of mine; But then the Circumſtances of the context through the whoſe Epiſtle make it moſt evident, that Blondel then was, and this Praefacer now is miſtaken.

20. For to repreſſe the furie of the foreign, ſeditions againſt their Biſhops, he had before immediately told them how theſe Biſhops were placed among them, viz. after this manner. The Apoſtles foreign knew or underſtood by Chriſt that there would be contention for the name of dignity of Biſhops. For which cauſe, foreign, having received perfect fore-knowledge they conſtituted the foreſaid Biſhops, and after left a liſt, or roll (of ſucceſſors) that when any dyed, foreign, Other approved perſons ſhould take up, or ſucceed to their office.

21. Here the Queſtion may be, What is meant by foreign, approved perſons, and who had the approving them? For if the People had, then Blondel and the Prefacer p. 88are in the right; but if not, then ſtill here is nothing to be pretended for them.

22. And indeed another (yet former) fundamental place of Clement in this Epiſtle, takes away all place of doubting, and tells us punctually whoſe approbation it was, The Apoſtles, ſaith he, preaching through regions and cities constituted their firſt converts, foreign, examining or approving them by the spirit to be Biſhops and Deacons foreign of thoſe which ſhould come into the Faith.

23. Here 1. it is not imaginable how the examination and approbation could belong to the people, or the whole Church, when thoſe, over whom they were conſtituted, were not yet come in, they are made Biſhops foreign, of thoſe which ſhould afterward come in to the Faith. And 2. if there had been a full Church to chooſe, yet the matter in Clemens extending not onelyonly to the Biſhops of the preſent, but alſo to the ſucceſſors for the future age, what right could the then preſent people have to chooſe, not onelyonly for their own, but the future age, and ſo deprive their ſucceſſors of their Priviledge?

24. But waving both theſe, the matter is otherwiſe cleare, They are the ſame perſons which did preach and conſtitute, and examine or approve, i. e. the Apoſtles did every of theſe, And doing it foreign by the Spirit, by Revelation or direction of the Spirit (in the ſame manner as they are ſaid to know by Chriſt, that there would be contention about this matter, and that having received perfect fore-knowledge, they conſtituted thoſe Biſhops) it is evident they had no need of any act of the People in doing it, and ſo that the examination and approbation was that of the Apoſtles, and not of the People, of the Apoſtles aſſisted and directed by the Spirit of God, and not ſo much as adviſed, that we heare of, or inſtructed by the people.

25. This farther appeares by another paſſage in that Epiſtle, where this act of the Apoſtles approving by the Spirit, and receiving perfect fore-knowledge what would fall out, and what they ſhould doe, is by him illuſtrated by the example of Moſes, who foreign fore-knew, (i. e. certainly) p. 89had it revealed to him by God, that Aaron ſhould be the Priest.

26. Examples of ſuch Revelations of God's in the firſt times, I have ſet downe in the **Pag. 167.Diſſertations, As firſt of Matthias, when God being prayd to, that he would demonſtrate or declare (foreign) which of the two he had choſen, he did by lot point him out to be the perſon, Act. 1. 24. Secondly of Paul and Barnabas, Act. 13. 2. Thirdly of Timothy, to whom the Epiſcopal dignity was given foreign by Propheſie, 1 Tim. 4. 14. & foreign, according to the propheſies which had before been delivered of him, 1 Tim. 1. 18. Upon which Chryſostome and Theophylact make their obſervation, foreign, The dignity of Biſhop (which they there ſtyle of Doctorſhip and Prieſthood) being great, wants God's direction that a worthy perſon may receive it. And the ſame is affirmed by Clemens in Euſebius l. 3. c. foreign. of the Biſhops whom Saint John ordained in Aſia, that they were foreign ſignified to him by the Spirit According to what Saint Paul had formerly ſaid of the Biſhops of Aſia, Act. 20. that the holy Ghoſt had ſet them to preſide over the flock peculiarly.

27. This, I muſt think, was, and ſtill is ſufficient to cleare the difficulty, and put it beyond queſtion, who they were, by whom the Biſhops in Clement are ſaid to be approved, certainly not the People, but the Apoſtles that conſtituted them, or yet higher, the Spirit of God who ſignified or pointed them out unto them, or by whoſe directions they approved them.

28. I ſhall not now need more largely to inſiſt on all the ſeveralls here objected againſt me by the Prefacer; By this clear ſetting down of the whole matter, 'tis certain, all his exceptions muſt ſpeedily vaniſh. I ſhall but touch on them that have not yet ſo fully been taken notice of and prevented in paſſing.

29. And 1. that foreign were viri Apoſtolici, though it was truly ſuppoſed by me, yet was it not my magiſteriall dictate, but, to my hand, the plain affirmation of D. Blondel; My words were regularly to be confronted to his concluſion in p. 90the very forme wherein he had produced it, and ſo I was to ſet it by Apoſtolicis alſo.

30. The Reader may, if he will, ſee my rendring of foreign, literally by illuſtribus viris, and the putting of [i. e. p. 278.Apoſtolicis, & Spiritu Dei probatis] into a Parentheſis, ſignified [Apoſtolicis] to be no rendring of foreign, but another character of the ſame men, collected out of other parts of the Epiſtle.

31. And ſo indeed it is moſt evident by the whole place, [foreign, The Biſhops conſtituted by the Apoſtles, and after them by other illuſtrious perſons] that thoſe that are there called foreign, illuſtrious men, were the ſucceſſors of the Apoſtles, ſuch as, when they were gone, conſtituted Biſhops in the Church.

32. And then what offence was there in my calling them Apoſtolicall perſons? Or what pretenſe for the Prefacer to ſay they were onelyonly the choice men of the Church, in oppoſition to my calling them Apeſtolicall? Choice men of the Church, I know, they were, for ſo muſt they be deemed, who by the Apoſtles were left Rulers of it. But ſuch the Prefacer cannot meane, when he ſets it in oppoſition to me, who called them Apoſtolici; He muſt therefore queſtionleſſe mean the choice men of the People, and then thoſe choice men muſt be concluded to conſtitute Biſhops, and not onelyonly to conſent to their conſtituting, (as before he had ſet it) And then I deſire he will ſay poſitively, that this was his meaning, and that from any place of Scripture or ancient Writer, he will ſhew me where any choice men of the people conſtituted Biſhops after the departure of the Apoſtles.

33. Secondly, when he ſaith, that the words [ex iuſſu Dei & approbatione, by the appointment and approbation of God] are added by me, 'tis not imaginable what he ſhould meane by it: Thoſe words are evidently ſet by me as an argument that they could not want the approbation of the people, becauſe they were ſufficiently furniſhed by the appointment and approbation of God, as had appeared by the teſtimony of Clement ſet down in the page immediately precedent: And what is produced p. 91by me as an argument to convince the unconcludeney of Blondel's collection, can it be blamed in me, as an inſertion or addition either to Clement's or Blondel's words?

34. And when he goes on reproaching this Edition with his [as though any particular command or approbation of God were intimated for the conſtituting of the Biſhops and Deacons mentioned] I hope it hath ſufficiently appeared that there was ſuch command or appointment of God more than intimated by Clemens in that Epiſtle, and the like expreſt in Scripture in many parallel caſes, and this particularly a deſignation of the perſons, which were to be ordained, and ſo ſomewhat beyond the general inſtitution of the Lord Jeſus (which he ſpeaks of. I ſuppoſe he meanes the commiſſion of the Apoſtle to Titus and the like) that Elders ſhould be ordained in every Church.

35. Thirdly: When he ſaith 'tis argumentatively weak and unconcluding, he muſt mean that this argument of mine is a weak, and unconcluding argument, I ſhall therefore repeat it again, and put it formally into a ſyllogiſm; They who had been conſtituted by the appointment and approbation of God, cannot then be thought to want the acceptation of the people: But the Biſhops, spoken of by Clement, had been conſtituted by the appointment, and approbation of God: Therefore, they cannot be thought to want the acceptation of the people. What propoſition can here be denyed, I confeſs I ſee not.

36. The Major hath it's evidence in its ſelf; for certainly that which is already done, and done by God's appointment, needs no other extrinſecal addition or accompliſhment, unleſſe that alſo be ordained by God, which in this caſe of the acceptation of the Biſhop by the people, no way appears, and till it doth appear, cannot be ſuppoſed, or pretended by any to be thus needfull.

37. And for the Minor, it is the expreſſe affirmation of Clement, that they that inſtituted them, examined and approved them by the spirit, and knowing by the Lord Chriſt, & having perfect foreknowledge of what ſhould be, foreign conſtituted theſe Biſhops, and this is mention'd by Clement as an aggravation of their crime, that rejected theſe that were thus conſtituted. And then I hope the premiſes having ſtrength, the p. 92concluſion from them regularly inferr'd, will not be denyed me.

38. For as to the examples of Saul and David, I am ſure they prove nothing; for if there were perfect truth in all which is here pretended, which is more than from the circumſtances of the ſtories I can affirm, viz. that God, who deſigned them Kings, would have the People come together to chooſe them, then from that act of God's will it was, and from God's expreſſing it, that the convening and election of the People was neceſſary, and if God had not will'd it, or not appointed it, it had then as certainly not been neceſſary.

39. Now let any ſuch declaration of Gods will be ſhew'd, that he would have the People convene and chooſe their Biſhop, and then I ſhall think my argument weak, but otherwiſe I muſt not think it concluded ſo by theſe examples

40. So in the caſe of the Deacons Act. 6. the Apoſtles appointed the Diſciples to ſeek out ſeven men from among them, withall directing them how they ſhould be qualified, and reſerving to themſelves the intire power of conſtituting them foreign, to the office of Deacon. And ſo nothing from that third inſtance can be inferr'd againſt us, it being no way parallel to the caſe in Clement, as already is viſible: For in the Acts, the Diſciples look out, and chooſe v. 5. the perſons, and bring them to the Apoſtles, v. 6. and the Apoſtles lay their hands on them in the remainder of that verſe: But in Clemens, God deſigns the perſons (and ſo in the other Scripture inſtances, and in that of Clemens Alexandrinus of the firſt Biſhops of Aſia ordained by St. John) and the Apoſtles, and their ſucceſſors ordain and lay hands on them.

41. As for that of Act. 14. …3. that the ordaining of the Elders was with the Peoples election (by the way, it was even now by, as well as with the conſent of the People) or indeed that any mention of the People is made there, or ſo much as intimated by the word foreign. All that I can ſay, is, that it hath been diſproved, as far as any, that I know of, hath yet endeavoured to prove it, i. e. all arguments, that I have ſeen for it, I have **Reſol. to the fifth Queſt.elſwhere anſwered: But what will ere long be manifeſted, I am not able to forecaſt, and ſo am not now to provide anſwers by divination.

p. 9342. No more am I able to foreſee what he ſaith will one day be found, and yet I think it is very poſſible: Neither he, nor I may live to ſee that day, when any thing ſhall be farther manifeſted in this matter, than what the great Doctors already ſuppoſe. The reſolution of the queſtion, what right every one hath in theſe affairs, being founded in plain matter of fact, viz. what Chriſt or his Apoſtles inſtituted in the Church, and that being already as viſible to them, that are converſant in Scripture and antient Records of the Church, as it can well be imagined to be, till either a new mine of ſuch Records is ſprung, or men receive knowledge of ſtory by Revelation: Neither of which am I forward to expect in this age.

43 In the next place for his objections againſt my interpreting of foreign, of Gods extraordinary revealing whom he would have ordained, they will ſoon vaniſh alſo. For 1. the place of St. Paul concerning Timothies ordaining of Deacons, and appointing foreign, let them be firſt tryed or examined, 1. Tim. 3. 10. belongs nothing to this of the trying by the ſpirit: Timothy might have ordinary meanes of trying (and the whole diſcourſe of St. Paul, then ſetting down the qualifications of thoſe that were to be ordained, tends to that, and then he had no need of extraordinary.

44. And ſo likewiſe the Apoſtles Act. 6. referr'd the matter of tryal and approbation to the Diſciples, and without more adoe, and without this foreign, trying by the ſpirit, ordained thoſe that were thus preſented to them. But theſe two inſtances can no way praeclude divine revelations concerning Matthias, and Paul, and Barnabas, and Timothy, and the Biſhops of Aſia, and the Biſhops of Achaia, of whom the expreſs words of Scripture and Clemens, are, that by God, and his Spirit, and Prophecie, theſe were aſſigned to their Offices.

45. And accordingly though one of thoſe Deacons in the Acts be ſuppoſed to have proved none of the beſt, yet we ſee that Clement here uſeth it as an argument to evidence the unreaſonableneſſe and impiety of ejecting their Biſhops, that they were p. 94thus conſtituted, which I ſuppoſe concludes, that this was not to be ſuſpected or feared of them, which was experimented to have befallen Nicolas.

46. Secondly: for the notion of [foreign, by the spirit] that it ſignifies, as I affirm, and not, as he ſuggeſts [ſpiritually proving them, &c.] he knows (and ſtrait confeſſes) one way, by which I prove it, the mention of foreign, that they had perfect foreknowledge to this matter, and what is that receiving of perfect foreknowledge, but the spirit of prophecie; and that, as was ſaid, immediately before, foreign, they knew it by our Lord Jeſus Christ, and by him were directed perfectly to do what they did. And ſo this is one competent proof of it.

47. And by the way, how is the very firſt part of the phraſe [foreign, trying] being applyed to the Apoſtles and their Succeſſors [if foreign had been left out] reconcileable with the peoples trying, examining, or approving? Before 'twas ſaid that this work of trying (foreign, 1 Tim. 3. 10.) was by the Apoſtles given to the multitude, Acts 6. But how can it poſſibly be ſo here in Clement, where it is ſaid of the Apoſtles, that they did foreign, try them by the spirit?

48. This I ſay, to ſhew how far he would be from gaining his deſign, though it ſhould be granted which he deſires, that foreign refers not at all to any▪ extraordinary waies of revelation, which if it did not, yet neither refers it to the peoples, but to the Apoſtles examining and approving.

49. But, I ſay, 'tis already evident, that I have given other reaſons, why I interpret Clemens thus of extraordinary revelations, which he ought to have adverted before, and I have now mentioned them again, and muſt not repeat eternally.

50. This again ſhews how little I am bound to aſſert, that every thing, which is ſaid to be done in the ſpirit, is done by immediate revelation, becauſe if ſome things be, this may be one of thoſe ſome, and that it is, is ſufficiently proved by thoſe other evidences.

51. Next to his queſtion, whether the foreign, who appointed (ordained) Biſhops and Deacons after the Apoſtles times p. 95had alſo this ſpecial revelation or no] I anſwer, that Clement no where ſaith that they had, onelyonly that they foreign, ordained (that is all one with laying hands on) them, whom the Apoſtles by their Prophetick ſpirit had deſigned to that office.

52. To this the Context in Clement is clear, that the Apoſtles by that foreign, foreknowledge, ordained ſome, and foreign, for the future, to be ſucceſſors to them, foreign, they left a roll or liſt of names, who ſhould ſucceed unto their dead places, and theſe, as oft as any Biſhop (ordain'd by the Apoſtles) dyed, were by the other Biſhops, i. e. the foreign ordain'd in their places, according to that rule left by the Apoſtles for their ſucceſſion. So that in this matter there could be no need of any further revelation, they were to ordain thoſe which were next upon the Apoſtles liſt, and that might be done without multiplying of revelations.

53. And ſo his next queſtion is at an end alſo; for I have no occaſion or ground to extend theſe revelations any farther than the perſons of the Apoſtles (though I know there were alſo Prophets in thoſe times, beſide Apoſtles) but may ſafely and reaſonably leave all others, where the Apoſtles had left no ſuch liſts, or when they were at an end, to be concluded by Paul's directions to Timothy, without depending farther on speciall revelations.

54. And now I think I have anſwer'd all his queſtions, or given him my Key to doe it himſelf, and ſo muſt be content to return weary home, without receiving any of thoſe thanks from that generation of men whom he pleaſeth to mention, but ſhall be content with my lot, being alſo competently ſecured from the trouble of looſing knots, which thoſe thanks were dedeſigned to bring along with them.

p. 96Sect. 2.

Another teſtimony in Clemens concerning the power of the People examined. foreign.

Numb. 1. BUt this buſineſſe of the power of the People in the Church is not to be diſmiſt ſo, but muſt more largely be reſumed again, and my attendance ſhall be anſwerable to my Leaders pleaſure, who thus inlargeth his digreſſion.

2. Before we return, let us look but a little further, and we ſhall have a little more light given us, into what was the condition and power of the people in the Church in the …ayes of Clemens, ſpeaking of them who occaſioned the diviſion and ſchiſm in the Church of Corinth, or them about whoſe exaltation into office, or dejection from it, that ſad difference fell ou…, he giv…s th…m this advice; foreign. It ſeems the foreign, the multitude, or the people, were not ſuch poor inconſiderable things as they are reported to be, when he adviſes them to ſtop and ſtay the ſedition by yeelding obedience to the things by them appointed and commanded. If it were in it ſelf evill, diſorderly, and not according to the mind of Chriſt, that the people ſhould order and appoint things in the Church, it had been ſimply evill for Clemens to have adviſed any to yeeld obedience to the things by them ſo appointed. Where is now Ignatius his foreign and foreign—Even thoſe who are contending about rule and government in the Church, are adviſed to ſtand to the determination of the people, and to cry, foreign. This is alſo inſiſted on by Blondellus, who thence argues, Poteſtatem ple…is circaſacra Diſſert. 4. c. 8 …ect 4. Ad verba hae… (ſaith our Doctor) prod…gii i…ſtar eſt quod notandum duxit D. Blondellus [poteſtatem pl…bis circa ſacra] (de quâ tandem integra… diſſertationem elu…ub…avit) artificiis quibuſ unque aſserturus. Hic (inqu…t) nos monet Clemens fideles etiam de Epiſcopatu aut Presbyterio contendentes non ab Epiſ…opi ſingulari foreign nutu, ſed à multitudinis p…aeceptis p…pendiſſe. But let not our Doctor bee angry, nor c…y out out ſo faſt of Prodigies, a little time will manifeſt that many things may not be prodigious, which yet are contrary to ſundry of his exceptions and apprehenſions. I cannot but acknowledge him to be provoked, but withall I muſt ſay, that I have found very commonly, that reaſons uſher'd in by ſuch loud clamours, have in examination proved to p. 97have in examination proved to have ſtood in need of ſome ſuch noiſes, as might fright men from the conſideration of them. What is in the next Sections ſet up to ſhield the children of Epiſcopacy from being affrighted with this prodigy, may perhaps be of more efficacy thereunto▪ than the exclamations before mention'd: He therefore proceeds, Sect. 5… Certè (ſaith he) ſi ſ…r…òre… egerit D Blondellus, de Presbyteris ſuis (non de Epiſcopis noſtri…) actum pla…e & triumphatum crit, nec enim ab univerſo aliqu… Presbyterorum Colleg…o, quod ille tam affl…ctim ardet, ſed à multitudinis ſolius arbit…io tum contendentes de Epiſcopo, tum ſiideles omne… Corinthio▪ pepe… diſſe, aequè concludendum crit. If any man in the world hath manifeſted more deſperate affection towards Pre…bytery, than this Doctor hath do… toward Epiſcopacy, for my pa… ſolus habeto. But though neither Clemens nor Blondellus ſpeak any one word about the ordering of things, multitudinis ſolius arbitrio, yet here is that ſaid by them both, as is ſufficiently deſtructive, not onelyonly to the Epiſcopacie the Doctor contends for, as a thing wholly inconſiſtent with the power and liberty …ere granted the people, but of any ſuch Presbytery alſo, as ſhall undertake the ordering and diſpoſing of things in the Church of God▪ without the conſent and conc… ſu… frage of the people. Such a Presbytery it ſeems Bl…ndellus does not defend. But yet neither the Doctor's ou… cry, as at a prodigy, nor this retortion upon Presbytery, is any anſwer to the teſtimony of Clemens, nor ind…ed is there the …aſt poſſible reflection upon an orderly Goſpel Presbytery in any Church, and over it, by what Clemens here profeſſeth to be the power of the people, all appearance of any things is from the terme ſolius, …yſted into the Diſcourſe of Blondellus by the Doctor, in his ta…ing or it up to retort. Clemens in the very next words ſecures us from any thought, that all things depend à multitudinis ſolius arbitrio. His very next words are, foreign. Our Doctors and Maſters having ſtu…t their imaginations with the ſhape and lineaments of that hierarchical fab…ick, which the craft, policy, ſub…ty, avarice, pride, ambition of many ages ſucceſ…ively had formed and …amed according to the pattern they ſaw in the Mount of the World, and the governments therein, upon the firſt hearing of a Church, a ſ…ck of Chriſt, walking in orderly ſubjection to their own Elders concu…ing with them, and conſenting to them in their rule and government, inſtantly as m…n amazed, cry out a prod…g…. It is not imaginable into what ridiculous, contemptible miſcarriages, pride, prejudice, and ſel…ulneſſe doe oftentimes betray men, otherwiſe of good abili…i…s in their waies, and commendable induſtry.

But Section the ſixth, the Doctor comes cloſer and gives his reaſon why this teſtimony of Clemens is not of any efficacy to the purpoſe in hand, ſaith he, At qu… (ſod…s) à fidelibus de Epiſcopatu (ut a…s) …ntra ipſos ab Apoſtolis const…atos contend…bus, quis à populo contraprincip… ſuum …umultus tiente, qu…s verbis ad retundendum ſeditionem ad plebe… factis argumenta ad Authoritatem populo adjud…andum principi derogandum duci poſſe …xiſtiSavit… p. 98Though many words follow in the next Section, yet this is all of anſwer that is given to this ſignal teſtimony of Clement's. I know the Doctor for the moſt part mee…s, not onelyonly with favourable Readers, but alſo partial Admirers; or elſe certainly his exclamation would ſcarce paſs for an invincible argument, nor ſuch Rhetorical diverſions as this be eſteemed ſolid Anſwers. There is not by Blondellus any argument taken from the faithfuls tumultuating againſt the Biſhops (that, of appointed by the Apoſtles which is th…uſt in, taken for the perſons of thoſe Biſhops, is againſt the expreſſe reſtimony of Clemens in this Epiſtle) nor from the peoples ſe…ſly rebelling againſt their Prince, nor from any word ſopken to the people to repreſſe their ſedition; neither was any thing of this nature urged in the leaſt by Blondellus, nor is there any colour given to ſuch a collection from any thing in the words cited from the Epiſtle, or the Context of them. It is the advice of the Church of Rome to the perſons (whether already in office, or aſpiring thereunto) about whom the contention and diviſion was in the Church of Corinth, that is inſiſted on. It is not the words nor plea of them who were in diſorder, there is no… any reprehenſion given to the body of the Church, the multitude or people who are ſuppoſed to tumultuate, to quiet them, but a direction given (as was ſaid) by the Church of Rome to the perſons that occaſioned the difference, how to behave themſelves ſo, that a timely iſſue might be put to the diviſion of the Church. To this end are they adviſed to obſerve the foreign, the Orders, Precepts, Decrees, or Appointments of the multitude, as (from Act. 15.) the body of the Church is called. It is not that they ſhould yield to their tumultuating, but to yield obedience to their orderly precepts, foreign, are by him approved; and had it not been lawfull for them, with the Presbyters foreign in affairs of the Church, Clemens writing this Epiſtle to the whole Church, could not poſſibly have led them into a greater ſnare.

It is a ſad thing to conſider the pitifull entanglements and ſnares that ſome men run into, who will undertake to make good, what they have once engaged for, let what will come againſt them.

3. In this Section again the uſage is, as formerly, very extraordinary: Firſt, I am put under Diſcipline to teach me (that which was antiently accounted a very high pitch, propè res una, but theſe times may be able to advance one to, which is but of ordinary parts) the Nil admirari, to ſee, and hear the moſt portentous things, and to admire at nothing; I muſt not be permitted to ſay of any, though never ſo ſtrange, unreaſonable a collection of Blondel's, that it is inſtar prodigii, but I am cenſured as angry, and guilty of loud clamours, out-cries, exclamations, noiſes, and theſe deſigned to fright men from conſideration p. 99of my reaſons, as after (on as little cauſe) of deſperate affection to Epiſcopacy, of forgerie, or foyſting in the word ſolius into Blondel's diſcourſe, and if this be not enough for my humiliation, there is a reſerve of [ridiculous, contemptible miſcarriages, ſuch as it is not imaginable men ſhould be betray'd to] and yet farther, as the cauſes of theſe, pride, prejudice, and ſelfulneſs] and to conclude [pitifull intanglements and ſnares, &c.]

4. This is truly ſomewhat above the proportion of the turgent ſtyle, or the but four barbarous words in ſeven Epiſtles, and yet I verily believe the Section is genuine, no part of it inſerted by any foreign, it bears ſo perfect proportion with what I have hitherto had from the ſame hand. And the aſſuring him, that all this might, if he had ſo pleaſed, have been very eaſily ſpared, is all that I have to return to the more Rhetorical part of this Section.

5. OnelyOnly when after all this ſeverity, he thinks fit to give me ſome of his benediction at parting, and to allow me a room among men of good abilities in their wayes, and very commendable industry, I cannot but remember the critical note of Eumani…es the Atticiſt, that the ordinary form of foreign in Epiſtles was firſt uſed by Cleon to the Athenians, after he had taken foreign from them, whereupon a Comical perſon anſwered, foreign, You, Sir, are the firſt that bid us be well, and rejoyce, having given us much cauſe of ſadneſſe. This our Engliſh proverb expreſſes very ſignificantly, and I that had as little right to his plaiſter, as I had to the diſpleaſure which made him think I wanted it, may tell him, he hath diſpenſed both without any merit of mine.

6. As for the argumentative part of his diſcourſe I ſhall now come briefly to that, and doubt not to ſhew, 1. That D. Blondel's Collection was very ſtrange, and ſo merited the expreſſion that was beſtowed on it [inſtar prodigii] (I meant not that it lookt like a blazing star, or any other ſuch prodigie) 2. That ſolius was not foiſted in by me. In a word, that all really was as I pretended it to be. This muſt be cleared by a brief narration of the whole paſſage, as it lyes viſible in the fift Diſſert. c. 8.

p. 1007. There was a ſedition in the Church of Achaia, the Metropolis whereof was Corinth, and that advancing ſo high, as to the ejecting their Biſhops out of their office (foreign) and theſe Biſhops foreign, thoſe very perſons which by the Apoſtles had been either deſigned, and put upon the liſt, or actually ordained and conſtituted among them.

8. This was done, ſaith Clemens foreign, for one or two onelyonly perſons ſakes, whom the actors in the comm… had a mind to advance to that office.

9. For the calming this tempeſt, Clemens makes uſe of many methods and arguments of perſwaſion At length he betakes himſelf to the perſons, for the advancing of whom all this ſtir was made, this tempeſt was raiſed. To them he thus makes his addreſs; Tels them what M…ſes had done when the people were in a foul ſin, being himſelf content to be blotted out of the book of the living, rather than the wrath of God ſhould light on the people, and then (in the words which are ſet dow… by the Prefacer) foreign—Who then among you is a generous perſon; who hath bowels of kindneſſe and compaſſion? who is repleniſhed with love or charity? Let him th… ſay (to this ſeditious multitude) If the ſedition, and contention, and ſchiſms are for me, or my ſake (viz. that I am not in ſo great place or office as you contend, and deſire to have me) I am gone, I depart to what place ſoever you will, and doe what the multitude appoint me; onelyonly let the flock of Chriſt …e at peace with the Elders that are placed over them. Adding, foreign, Thus godly men have done, and will doe, and foreign, Many have removed out of their own Cities, that the Sedition might not farther extend it ſelfe.

10. In theſe words nothing can be more manifeſt than 1. That this ſhort Oration to the tumult…ous people was onelyonly deſigned to ſtill their commotion, and to reduce them at once to peace and ſubjection to their ſuperiors placed over them in the Church. And ſo it can be no farther argumentative, than to p. 101that, or the like caſe, or conjuncture, viz. that for the acquiring peace to the publick, and quiet ſubjection to Governours, any generous or charitable perſon ought even to leave his Country, if need ſo require, and if that will doe it, to doe, or ſuffer any thing for the regaining the publick peace, not that every Chriſtian is in all caſes bound to doe this, or that; what is charitable in theſe circumſtances, is ſimply, and without them neceſſary: For then the example there uſed of M…ſes muſt be obligatory too, and every man ſhall at all times be bound to wi… and pray what in that one caſe he did.

11. Secondly: That it is by Clement put into the mouth, not of the true Biſhops or Elders, duly conſtituted among them at that time; for ſhould they have offer'd to g…e …ut and depart, 1. There is no …ſ…ion but they had been permitted to do ſo, by them who had already ejected them from their foreign or Miniſtration: And 2. how could the foreign, the flock be at peace together with theſe …tuted Elders (i. e. with theſe that were already conſtituted) in caſe they ſhould thus depart: And 3. how had lemens done the worke to which his who…e Epiſtle was deſigned, viz. re-eſtabli…ht the true Governours in their …h…irs again, if they had thus, by his adviſe, departed. But, I ſay, this ſpeech of foreign, I am gone, I depart, is by Clement put into the mouth of the one or two perſons … f…r whoſe ſakes this commotion was raiſed againſt their Eccl…ſtic…l Governours (foreign) and this is ſo manifeſt, that it is to him that ſhall but lightly view the place in the Epiſtle, impoſſible to make any queſtion of it.

12. Thirdly: …t is here as manifeſt, that the receſſe here ſ…o…en of, and after exempli…ied in the …, the many that had done ſo, and in like manner by Kings and Princ… that in times of plagues had, in obedience to the Oracle… delivered themſelves up to death, foreign, that by their own blood th…y …t reſ… and …liv…r their citizens, as before it had been by Moſes … …ver [blot me out▪] was an act of gene… & charity in the… that duplicate page p. 100duplicate page p. 101p. 102ſhould doe it, a mere ſpontaneous, voluntary receſſe, no act of ordinary duty or obligation. And conſequently, though it were very lawfull for Clemens to adviſe this generoſity, yet it had been very ill in the ſeditious people to require them to be gone, who ſo earneſtly deſired the reſtoring them to peace, and due ſubjection, and ſo this can be no inſtance of the peoples power in this or any thing elſe.

13. Theſe things being granted, the ſtrangeneſs of D. Blondel's concluſions from the words will immediately appear: They are two; the one ſet down p. 12. the other p. 13. of his Apology: In p 12. thus: Hic nos monet, fideles etiam de Epiſcopatu ſive Preſbyterio contendentes, non ab Epiſcopi ſingulares, foreign nutu, ſed a multitudinis praeceptis pependiſſe. Here Clement mindeth us that the faithfull, even ſuch as contend for the Biſhoprick, or office of Elder, depend not on the pleaſure of the Biſhop, the ſingular Biſhop, and who had the ſupreame power, but on the precepts of the multitude. In p. 13. thus, Preſbyteros nihil foreign attentâſſe, ſed propter Chriſtum communemque piae fraternitatis aedificationem, multitudinis dicto audientes fuiſſe: That the Elders attempted not to doe any thing by way of command or empire, but for Chriſt's ſake, and for the common edification of the brethren, they were obedient to the command of the multitude.

14. In the firſt of theſe concluſions, that which is very ſtrange, is, that the believers ſhould from Clement's words be concluded 1. not to have depended on the pleaſure of their Biſhop. 2. to have depended on the precepts of the multitude: Whereas 1. there is no one ſyllable of their not depending on the pleaſure of their Biſhops, but ſpecial mention of the preſerving their Biſhops quietly in their ſeats, as the end, which, with the peace of the Church, was the onelyonly thing they had in their view: And 2. they no otherwiſe depended on the precepts of the multitude, than as for the avoyding and quieting the Sedition, they ſhould voluntarily ſubmit themſelves, which is far from concluding any due power in the multitude, as my bribing a Plunderer to ſave my life, is from inferring that he hath a lawfull power over it; or my telling any man in an extremity, I will doe whatſoever you bid me, on condition p. 103you will be quiet, and let my Master alone, will conclude that man to have had any power over me, before I had ſaid it, or that that power ſhall alwaies continue to have obligation on me afterwards: Or, to goe no farther than the Context in Clemens, than the Kings being content to dye for the removing the Plague from the People, can be a precedent and obligation to all Kings and Rulers, not onelyonly to doe the like in the like caſe, but to acknowledge themſelves univerſally to depend upon the commands of the people.

15. By this already appears, how free I am from being chargeable with thoſe things of which the Prefacer accuſes me: As 1. that I foiſt in the [ſolius] into Blondel's diſcourſe. It is an ugly word, but ſure I am not guilty of it: For doth not Blondel ſay, non ab Epiſcopi nutu, ſed a multitudinis praeceptis? that they depended not from the Biſhops pleaſure, but from the multitudes precepts? Is not the [non, ſed, not, but] here perfectly all one with [ſolius, onelyonly?] Where there are but two parts, the Governour (or Governours, as Blondel would have it) in every Church, and the People; what is done by the power of the People, and not by the power of the Governours, muſt ſure be done by the power of the people alone. That which can be done but three wayes, by the Prefacer, or by me, or conjunctim by both of us together; if it be done by him, and not done by me, is it not done by him onelyonly? What poſſibility is there that I ſhould deceive my ſelf, or any man elſe by thus concluding?

16. This Prefacer, I acknowledge ſeemes to ſet it otherwiſe than Blondel had done, and ſo, I ſuppoſe, phanſies it a joynt power of the orderly Goſpel Preſbytery and the People: But then 1. I that was ſpeaking to Blondel, was not to …e ſuppoſed to ſpeak to this Prefacer, who differs from Blondel. And 2. that which is done by the Preſbytery and People joyntly, how can it be ſaid to be done not by the Preſbytery, or to be done by, or depend from the peoples command, not from the Preſbytery? So that certainly I was capable of a more benign cenſure, I might have been ſpared the accuſation of ſ…iſting or forgery in this matter.

17. So likewiſe for his ſecond charge, that I miſreport Blondel's p. 104way of arguing, making him take his argument from the faithfull, tumultuating againſt the Biſhops, from the peoples ſeditiouſly rebelling againſt their Prince, from words ſpoken to the people to repreſſe their ſedition; whereas, ſaith he, there is not any thing of this nature urged in the leaſt by Blondel] this ſure will vaniſh preſently alſo: For as to the firſt two branches, 'tis certain I no where thus recite Blondel's arguing: My words he had juſt before ſet down truly, if he would have c…nſtrued them right, Quis, ſodes, à fidelibus de Epiſcopatu contra Epiſcopos centendentibus, quis à populo contrae Principem ſuum tumultus ciente—argumenta—duci poſſe exiſtimavit? Who, I pray, for the aſſerting the authority of the people would think arguments might be brought from the faithfull, contending for authority againſt their Biſhops, from a people raiſing ſedition againſt their Prince?] that is, from any thing ſaid or done by ſuch men at ſuch a time. This is not from the faithfuls contending, or the peoples rebelling (as the Prefacer was pleaſed to miſconſtrue me) but from the faithfull contending, i. e who contended, or (as the parallel to that) the people rebelling, or, who rebelled. And, I pray, doth not Blondel fetch his argument in this place of Clement from th…ſe, and none but theſe? Are not his very words, fideles de Epiſcopatis contendentes—a multitudinis pr…ptis rependiſſe, that the faithfull contending, or, who contended for the Biſhoprick depended on the commands of the multitude] and doth he not draw his argument for the peoples power from them, and (which was the third thing) from the words, that they are by Clement bid uſe to the people to repreſſe their ſedition? From whence, I beſeech him, is Blondel's argument drawn, if not from hence, when from this one ſpeech of theirs (made for them by Clement) it is that this whole argument is drawn?

18. 'Tis true, indeed, Blondel ſhould not have affirmed of thoſe whom he calls the Contenders, that they depended on the commands of the people, but that Clemens bid them that they ſhould make that offer to them, that in that particular they would. But I, who was confuting Blondel's argument, was to take it as he ſet it, not as it ought to have p. 105been ſet by him, and ſo have done nothing criminous in ſo doing.

19. There is yet a third charge in a parentheſis, that the words [appointed by the Apoſtles] taken for the perſons of thoſe Biſhops is thruſt in by me, and is againſt the expreſſe teſtimony of Clemens in this Epiſtle.] But certainly this is alſo a groundleſſe accuſation. For as to Blondel's words or arguing, they are not by me thruſt into them, but uſed as a circumſtance of ſome force in my arguing againſt him, to ſhew that his argument taken from what was ſaid or done by thoſe whom he acknowledges contenders, was ſure to be no good argument, when they, againſt whom they are by him ſuppoſed to contend, being the Biſhops of Corinth, thoſe Biſhops were, ſay I, conſtituted by the Apoſtles: This was but a light circumſtance, yet that which I thought would be ſome farther prejudice to his argument, when the words, from whence he inferr'd his concluſion, were ſuppoſed to be ſpoken by the contenders, thoſe again contenders againſt Biſhops, and thoſe Biſhops conſtituted by the very Apoſtles.

20. And then for Clement, 'tis moſt certain (whatſoever the Prefacer is pleaſed to affirm to the contrary) that he expreſly ſaith this of theſe Biſhops, whom they contended againſt, and ejected, that they were foreign, conſtituted by the Apoſtles, or after by other eſteemed men, ſome immediately both deſigned and ordain'd to the Office by the Apostles perſonally, others deſigned and nominated, or put upon the foreign, the liſt of ſucceſſion by the Apoſtles, and as places were vacant, actually ordai…'d by the impoſition of the hands of thoſe eſteemed or eminent men, the ſucceſſors of the Apoſtles (ſuch as were alſo themſelves call'd Apoſtolical men by Blondel, and by the antients, Apostoli ſecundarii, ſecundarie Apoſtles.)

21. This is moſt evident again by what was cleared in the laſt Section: And ſo the Parentheſis had as little of Juſtice in it, as the main period, and might have been spared alſo, if the Prefacer had ſo pleaſed.

22. What follows after in this place [It is the advice of the Church of Rome—] is for the moſt part true, and I have ſuggeſted p. 106nothing againſt it, nor am now a whit concerned in the contents of it, and therefore though there be ſome infirme parts in it alſo, and many more in the former words, yet having vindicated my ſelfe, I ſhall not trouble the Reader to purſue this matter any farther; what he hath mistaken, he may, if he pleaſe, rectifie by what hath been ſaid, and particularly informe himſelfe of his doubts, that they to whom the adviſe is given, and on occaſion of whom the ſedition was raiſed, are not they that were in danger of being derected from their office (as at the beginning of this Section he thought it poſſible) n…r conſequently they (as toward the end he ſaith) which were already in office, but they **foreign, p. 69. and foreign, pag. 62.for whom the people contended to have them advanced to the Biſhops ſeats, they that were the occaſion and the ſubject matter of the contention, and as we may conclude from ſome paſſages, ††Pag. 69.foreign the ring-lead…r… of the ſedition, and **Pag 72.foreign, they that laid the foundation of it.

23. And that bring me to the ſecond ſtrange part of Blondels collection, Communi Preſbyteros conſilio Eccleſiam rexiſſe, eoſdem nihil foreign attentâſſe, ſed—multitudinis dicto obedientes fuiſſe, that the Presbyters by Common Councel ruled the Church, and that the ſame Presbyters (in the text of Clemens) were obedient to the command or ſaying of the multitude. But that certainly could not be hence concluded, the perſons into whoſe mouth Clemens put theſe words being not Presbyters nor Biſhops neither, but thoſe whom the people would have Biſhops, and to that end raiſed this ſedition, and caſt the true Biſhops out of the Church, And ſo they of whom this ſage obſervation is made, [that they did nothing imperiouſly, but depended on the commands of the multitude] are but theſe unruly fellow-believers, not really veſted with any power in the Church, onelyonly one part of a ſeditious multitude, exhorted by him to indeavour to pacifie another, and to indeavour to reſcue the legall Biſhops from ſuffering in this tempeſt (yea, though the ſame popular tumult would have put them into their places) others being reſolved to ſhake the whole Church, rather than they would miſſe of their deſigne of p. 107raiſing thoſe that they thought fit to admire.

24. And for any ſuch words uſed (or by Clemens adviſed to be uſed) betwixt one part of this multitude and the other, I ſtill deſire it may be conſidered, whether it be poſſible that an argument can be regularly drawn from them, on which to found the right or power of the people, in ordering Eccleſiaſtical affaires, when beſides, all that hath formerly been ſaid, 'tis certaine the speech was made to that part of the people, which were in open rebellion againſt their ſuperiors, and was onelyonly a foreign or mollifying plaſter applyed to the part which was at that preſent moſt inflamed, embrocation to allay the paroxyſme.

25. I might now joyne iſſue with the Prefacer, and examine the truth of his poſitive affirmation, that in this ſaying of Clemens, there is that laid which is ſufficiently deſtructive to the Epiſcopacie that I contend for (and alſo of any ſuch Preſbyterie as ſhall undertake the dispoſing of things in the Church of God, without the conſent & concurrent ſuffrage of the people) or that the Epiſcopacie I contend for, is wholly inconſiſtent with the power, and liberty here granted to the people. But there is not one ſyllable here produced for the defence of this affirmation. And I thinke it competently appears by this time, how farre that bare text of Clement is from founding it, and therefore I have now nothing more to contend with, my contrary affirmation, that no ſuch thing is yet concluded, will certainly be true, and fit to be confronted to, and balanced with it, and if I ſhould farther improve it into this, that nothing is concluſible, I thinke having already ſeen the utmoſt, that two ſuch skilfull artificers, Blondel, and the Prefacer, have beene able to produce toward it, it would not be thought any grand inſolence.

26. One thing onelyonly I cannot omit, that when he ſpeaks of the power of the people, he calls it [their concurrent ſuffrage] once, and after joynes them with the Presbyters in the foreign commanding or ordeining in the affaires of the Church. But I ſhall demand, can any thing like that be drawn out of the place in Clement? Is it not certaine that the multitude, whoſe foreign, Ordinances he there ſpeaks of, p. 108had caſt out their Biſhops or Elders out of the Church, and thoſe that are to ſpeak to them, and joyne with them, are not Preſbyters, but thoſe whom they would have exalted to that office, and raiſed their tumult about it? And how then can the Preſbyters in that place be ſuppoſed to joyne with the people in this ordeining?

27. I ſhall not make my obſervations from hence, but leave the Prefacer to examine himſelfe, with what justice he hath managed his replies to me, or reproacht my anſwers to D. Blondel. And ſo indeed, as he ſaith, It is a ſad thing to conſider the pittifull intanglements and ſnares, &c. And ſo much for this Section alſo. The imployment is ſo dry to me, and the profit to the Reader ſo thin from ſuch kinde of debates, that I ſhould be glad it were the laſt of them.