Vindication of Baptizing Believers Infants, Chapter 18 – Chapter 19
CHAP. XVIII.
TO M.T. his firſt particular of his minor in his eighth argument,Exercitat. that Infant-baptiſme hath occaſioned private Baptiſme.
We anſwer:Animad. If M.T. means private in regard of place (for wee never knew of difference of forms) as that which is done in a dwelling houſe, we demand what danger or derogation is there, in that, more then in that which is commonly called a Church. Or 2 that Baptiſme which is not done in a River, wee demand, whether Baptiſme in a dwelling houſe or in a meeting place, in the company of 40 or 50 be not as publike, as when two or three ſteal to a Rivers ſide, in ſome uncouth and unfrequented place; yea and as well done in the ſayd houſes, as there, as to the queſtion now in hand, of private or not private?
To M.T. his ſecond particular, of Baptiſme by women, Exercitat.occaſioned by Infant Baptiſme.
We anſwer.Animad.
1 we know no ſuch thing to hauehave been allowed in the Proteſtant Churches ſince Luthers time.
2 For ancienter time, before the invaſion of groſſe Popery into the World▪ Bin.The fourth Council of Carthage, Ca. 10. commands, Mulier baptizare non pr…ſumat, that is, Let not woman preſume to baptize. So that if an over-forward Midwife, or Matron preſumed to baptize upon the example of that bold woman Zippora circumciſing her ſonne ſhee had by Moſes; yet this was not allowed by the orthodox Churches.
To the third particular,Exercitat. of baptizing children before they are brought into light.
We anſwer,Animad. wee cannot ſee what M.T. means in that darkneſſe. If he means baptizing of the mother, having the child in her wombe; we have ſhewed afore that Councils have enacted againſt it. Or what ever M. T. means, we know no allowance given to it, by orthodox Churches.
To his fourth particular of baptizing Infants of unce…ta…n progeny.Exercitat.
We anſwer,Animad. that this cannot follow upon our Tenet of baptizing believers Infants. If others practiſes extended further: it was the darkneſse and corruption of the times, without our line, and the line of Scripture.
To his fifth particular.Exercitat. That they are baptized in the name of the Lord, who know not the Lord, nor ever perhaps will conſent to the confeſſion of his name.
Wee anſwer:Animad. Suppoſing that M. Tombes means ſaving knowledge, (or elſe hee ſpeaks to little puepoſe)
1 The ſame inconvenience might Abraham have objected againſt Circumciſion of little ones at eight days old. But hee did not; yea, hee circumciſed Iſmael, though the Lord told him the bleſſing ſhould be upon Iſaak, Gen. 17.
Secondly, The ſame objection wee can juſtly make againſt the Anabaptiſts baptiſme; by too much experience; and teſtimony too from ſome of their writings: wherein as we have before quoted; that upon confeſſion of ſins, or profeſſion of the faith of the Anabaptiſts,dSee before Epiphan. And the book called the mark or character of the Beaſt. ſuch are to be baptized, though things otherwiſe are much wanting, or amiſſe.
Thirdly, If Infants may have ſaving grace as John Baptiſt had, and thoſe, Mark 10. And M. T. before confeſſed they might; And the meer acts of the reaſonable ſoule doe not depend upon the organs of the body, much leſſe doth grace depend on them; and the grace of God may act as conveniently in a well waking child, as in a man a ſleep or in a ſwound, then we cannot boldly ſay with M.T. that all Infants that are baptized, know not the Lord; or doe not conſent to the Lord. What they will prove after, the promiſe of God, I am the God of thee and they ſeed, is as ſure an evidence, as the judgment of the Anabaptiſts touching them they bapti…e.
To the ſixth particular.Exercitat. That Infant Baptime hath admitted into the communion of the Church, and to the Lords Supper, many ignorant and prophane. For who ſayth M.T. can deny rightly, the right of the Church to the baptized.
Wee anſwer. To that that of admiſſion of them to the Lords Supper, becauſe baptized,Animad. is a meere Scriptureleſſe and an alog…call, irrationall non ſ…quitur. The Scriptures that bids give a childe of eight dayes the firſt ſeale; and doth tell us Chriſt laid his hands on little ones, and no where forbids to baptize believers Infants; do tell us Chriſt gave the Communion only to perſons of ripe yeers; and forbids us to give it but to them that duly examine themſelves. It is unreaſonable to infer that if one hath committed a fault in not right uſing the firſt Sacrament, proving ignorant or prophane, that he ſhould be admitted to the ſecond till hee amend. Yea, if M. T. holds Excommunication out, and Baptiſme an admiſſion into particular Church Communion (how I leave him to make out) if I ſay he holds theſe, then I ſuppoſe if he were in a particular Church, he would give his vote to Excommunicate one that walks profanely after Baptiſm. Then by the ſame proportion, wee may keep back from the Communion, one baptized in infancy, and after proving profane; and by a better pretence, ſeeing by Baptiſme we did not admit him into a particular Church, where peculiarly is adminiſtred the Communion of the Lords Supper.
To M.T. his ſeventh particular in the minor of his eighth Argument.Exercitat. That Infant-baptiſme doth prevent the order of Diſcipline, that firſt a man be baptized, and after is among the catechiſed.
We anſwer.Animad.
1 That God commanded Abraham to give the firſt ſigne or ſeal to all his male Family, Gen. 17. After Gen. 18.19. it is ſaid he would inſtruct his children.
2 Inſtruction may follow receiving the Lords Supper (elſe farewell Preaching) therefore it may follow Baptiſme.
3 Wee have ſhewed plentifully out of good antiquity, and famous modern Authors upon Heb. 6.2. That the Doctrine on Catechizings of Baptiſmes belonged to unbelievers children before Baptiſme, and the Doctrine of impoſition of hands belonged to believers Infants after Baptiſme.
4 That to acknowledge one a member of a particular Church by a generall confeſſion, and the common act of Baptiſm is a greater overthrow to dicipline, by leaving this man in that condition, that you cannot call him to an account, nor is hee engaged to come at your call to give you an account, however he walks.
Exercitat.To M. T. his 8, 9, 10 particulars.
That the Sacrament of Baptiſme is turned into a meere Ceremony, yea, prophane meeting, and feasting, by Infant Baptiſme.
Men forget Baptiſme, as if never adminiſtred.
It takes away zeal, or at leaſt diminiſheth it.
Animad.I ſay to theſe; that I were as good give no anſwer to theſe empty things, as to give ſuch an anſwer as is moſt ſutable, for then that anſwer muſt be as triviall as the argument. M. Tombes can anſwer himſelfe, that the ſame thing might be objected againſt the inſtitution of Circumciſion. That there was a Feaſt at the weaning of Iſaack, yet no prophaneſſe; and the Feaſt of Charity accompanied the Lords Supper a good while, ere it degenerated. That wee can well enough minde at ripe yeeres what was bequethed by Teſtament to us in our nonage. That a ſealed Covenant preceding, when it comes into conſideration by due education, cannot cool our zeal towards a naturall worſhip to own God.
CHAP. XIX.
Exercitat.TO M.T. his 1, 2, and fourth particulars of the minor, of his ninth argument; That Infant baptiſme hath occaſioned the needleſſe diſputes;
about the baptiſme of Excommunicates-Infants.
about the baptiſme of Apoſtates-Infants.
about the baptiſme of Next-unbelieving Parents Infants, the Grand Parents.
about the baptiſme of being believers.
Animad.Wee anſwer, that in our Churches, there are no ſuch diſputes about theſe things. We can eaſily by the tenour of the Scripture, reſolve on the negative, that the children are not to be baptized, whiles the next Parents are ſuch as M. T. hath mentioned.
Exercitat.To the third particular that Infant baptiſme hath occaſioned an unneceſſary diſpute about the baptizing of the Infants of believing parents, that are not members of gathered Churches.
Animad.We anſwer. I never perceived the world troubled with this diſpute. Divers Churches without diſpute can practice the baptizing of ſuch. And other Churches without diſpute practice it not, and ſo as much as in them is are kept back the more Infants, to be baptized at ripe yeers, according to M. T. his define; who hath moved more diſpute then any twenty of our Churches formerly have made, about Baptiſme.
Thus of M. T. his 6, 7, 8, 9 Arguments, with a generall and particular anſwers thereunto.