John Lilb Tried and Cast, Members of the jury
THE EXAMINATION OF THE JURY Who Tryed Liev. Coll. John Lilburn, At the Seſsions-Houſe in the Old Baily: Ʋpon Saturday the 20 of Auguſt, 1653. Taken before the Councell of State the 23d of the ſame MonethMonth, in purſuance of an Order of Parliament of the 21.
THomas Greene ſLilb. could not chooſe but like this man, knowing that he was as ill affected to the preſent Government as himſelf. Simile amicum ſimile, & ſimile ſimile gaudet., of Snow-hill, Tallow-Chandler, tQuerie, why this man was made foreman of the Jurie; we cannot underſtand of any reaſon for it, unleſſe it were for being before others in malignity to the State.Fore-man of the Jury; being aſkt what the grounds and reaſons were that moved him to find the ſaid Lievt: Col: John Lilburn not guilty upon the Indictment preferred againſt him at the Seſſions-Houſe in the Old Bailey, ſaith, That he did diſcharge uWhere a good conſcience in diſcharging truly a mans duty, there will be boldneſſe, and the perſon is not aſham'd nor afraid to give a reaſon of what he hath done, being called thereunto.his conſcience in what he then did, and that he will give xIt ſeemes neither he nor Mr. Lilb. had any Law to produce, that he was not bound to give the Coū cel a reaſon of their proceedings.no other Anſwer to any Queſtions which ſhall be askt him upon that matter.
And being in particular demanded of him, whether he conceived it not ſufficiently proved, that the Act whereupon he was Indicted was an Act of Parliament, whether he was not ſatisfied that the Copy of the Act produced, was a true Copy of the Act it ſelf,yIt is reported of an old woman, that ſhe would always keep her hād ſhut; Imagining that ſhe had within, the whole world, which would fly out upon the opening of her fiſt. But this man would not open his hand, or rather his head, as if there were any matter in it; but leſt the emptineſſe & nothingneſſe within ſhould appear. or that the John Lilburn at the Barre, was the John Lilburn mentioned in the Act: And what other thing it was which moved the Jury to find as aforeſaid; the Examinant anſwered, that he will give no other anſwer as aboveſaid, and deſired that he might be no further preſt therein.
And being further aſkt, why he would not give an account of the grounds and reaſons of their Verdict, he ſaid, He would not doe it for reaſons best known to himſelfe.
MIchael Rayner, of Friday-ſtreet, Leather-Seller, he ſaith, that he was one of the Jury that Tryed Lievt: Col: John Lilburn, upon Saterday the 20 inſtant, and that he was ſummoned to ſerve of the Jury upon Wedneſday was ſeven-night, and did conſtantly attend in Court, and upon the ſervice, untill the Tryall was over, and that he was aIf it be a thing which a man likes, & hath a deſire to do, he needs not be ſolicited: he will be forward enough of himſelfe in ſuch a caſe.not ſollicited by John Lilburn, nor any other on his behalf. And the Queſtions mentioned in the foregoing Examination being aſkt him, he anſwered, That he was ſatisfied in the Verdict he gave in that Caſe, and that he ſhould give no other Anſwer thereto.
And being further preſt therein, he deſired that a dayes time might be given unto him, to bHere that ſaying is true, Conſeientia mordet, quae pluris eſt quam mille teſtis: Quae ſi mala eſt etiam inſolitudine & ſolicita eſt.conſider of it, and he ſhould give ſatisfaction to the aforeſaid Queſtions.
He was further aſkt who adviſed him to make this anſwer to the Councell, whereto he anſwered, That the Jury were all of that minde, and that they cThus one ſin draws on another: And when mens conſciences begin to ſmite them for the evill of their doings, they are evermore ſtudious and ſolicitous, as how to excuſe thēſelv's, and to keep ſhame & puniſhment off: whereas men doing things juſtly and honeſtly are not troubled about deviſing ſhifts & put-offs.agreed to give this anſwer at a meeting they had all together at the Windmill Taverne in Coleman-ſtreet this morning; which meeting they had upon occaſion of the Order of Parliament for examining this buſineſſe: And that he had notice to come to this meeting by one or two of his partners, whoſe names (he ſaith) he doth not well know.
And being further demanded of him, whether Mr. Scobell Clerke of the Parliament, did not give evidence that Lievt: Col: John Lilburn at the Barre was the very Lilburn againſt whom the Act was made, he ſaid, He did give that evidence, and that he did believe he ſaid true, and that the Copy of the Act of Parliament produced, was a true Copy, but ſaith, That dHere is ſomthing of ſpeciall conſideration, ſeeing the Jury were told by the Bench, that they were Judges onelyonly of the fact, wherfore they ſhould be ſo inſolent, as to preſume to be Judges of matter of law This particular needs to be look'd after, for otherwiſe it may be exemplary, and ſo dangerous in a little time.he and the reſt of the Jury tooke themſelves to be Judges of matter of Law, as well as matter of Fact. Although he confeſſed that the Bench did ſay, that they were onelyonly Judges of the Fact.
He further ſaid, he was very unwilling to be of the Jury.
THomas Tunman, of Cowe-lane eThis man, though he ſels ſalt, yet his words were not ſeaſoned with ſalt, witneſſe his lying here againſt knowledg and conſcience.Salter, another of Lievtenant Col: John Lilburn's Jury, who ſaith, that the Verdict was, not guilty: And being aſkt the Queſtions in the firſt Examination, he ſaith, That he was ſworne to finde according to the iſſue and evidence, and that he did finde according to his fHow durſt he ſpeak of conſcience, who at the very ſame time moſt groſly lies againſt his cō ſcience.conſcience, and and poſitively refuſed to give any other Anſwer: And did deny that the Jury aforeſaid had agreed together to give one and the ſame-Anſwer to the Counſell, or that they had met together this morning, or at any other time ſince Saturday-night last, untill they came to the Councell. And being aſkt in particular, whether the ſaid Jury did not meet together this morning at the Windmill Taverne in Coleman-street, gWhen Anthonie was fiſhing, there lay one under the water, who ūknown to him, did put fiſh on his hook, the which he threw up, and thought he had catcht them. This man little imagined how the Devill baited his tongue, & put one lye after another into his mouth, which he threw out before the Coū cell. But here wee ſee how God puniſheth ſin with ſin.he poſitively anſwered they did not.
IMmanuel Hunt of St. Sepulchers, who ſaith he was one of John Lilburns Jury, upon his Triall on Saturday laſt, and that the Jury found him not guilty; but his memory being ſhort, doth not well remember the iſſue.
He being aſkt, whether it was not proved that the Priſoner was the John Lilburn mentioned in the Act, ſaith, hHow could he be ūſatisfied, ſeeing Lilburn had ſworn he was not the man.He was not ſatisfied that it was ſo proved, and that there are many John Lilburns, and that John Lilburn was Indicted of Fellony, which he did believe he was not guilty of; and that what was found was done by the conſent of all, and did ſatisfie their iA man of as much conſcience as the former; wee ſee they were not unequally matcht? for in what do they agree together?conſciences therein, and refuſed to give any other Anſwer, then as aforeſaid.
And it being demanded of him, whether the Jury had not met together, to agree of the Anſwer they were to give to the Councell; he anſwered, They met together the night of the Tryall, to drink a pint of Wine, and that they met kIt ſeems he brought away in his head the ſigne of the Taverne; for his tongue turns about like a Wind-mill, ſaith and unſaith; but we muſt here take notice of the juſt hand of God upon them, who will have their hypocriſie and deceit diſcovered by their own mouths.not ſince untill this day; and being askt what time of the day, he anſwered, five of them met here. But being aſkt particularly whether they met not at the Windmill Taverne in Coleman-street this morning, he did acknowledge they did, and that Mr. Tunman in particular was there, but refuſed to declare who gave him notice of this meeting.
JAmes Stephens of the Old Bailey Haberdaſher, who ſaith that he was one of Lievt: Col: John Lilburns Jury, and that having conſidered of the matter whereof he was Indicted, they found him not guilty. And being aſked the Queſtions in the firſt Examination, lHow this man ſhould find the Priſoner not guilty, acknowledging ſo much as he doth, is beyond our underſtanding: Poſſibly he did here, like ſome Travellers, who will now and then goe purpoſely out of their way, rather then part company.He acknowledged that he was ſatisfied that the Priſoner was the John Lilburn mentioned in the Act: Nor did he yet queſtion the validity of the Act, but the Jury having weighed all which was ſaid, and conceiving themſelves (mIt will be much to the ſatisfaction of the Nation, that theſe mē be required to give their Reaſons, wherefore contrary to the Counſell and Bench they peremptorily took it upon them to be Judges of the Law. notwithſtanding what was ſaid by the Councell and Bench to the contrary) to be Iudges of Law as well as of the Fact, they found him not guilty.
He acknowledgeth that all the Jury met this morning at the Windmill Tavern in Coleman-ſtreet, to conſider what Anſwer to give to the Councel, and that the nGalaton paints Homer vomiting, and the other Poets licking up what he had vomited. He that would put theſe twelve in a Picture, might doe well to paint them ſo.Foreman of the Iury ſpoke to him to be there, telling him he had heard there was an Order of Parliament for ſummoning them before the Councell; and further ſaith, That …unman was at that meeting.
RIchard Tomlins of St. Sepulchers oIn what Book doth he find it, that a man being warn'd to be of a Jury, before he hears the Caſe, may ſay, Right or wrong, he will acquit the Priſoner: But ſo impudent was he to ſay ſo much before the Tryall of Lilburn.Book-binder, who ſaith he was one of Lievt: Coll: John Lilburns Iury, and that the Jury found him not guilty. And being aſkt what was the point in iſſue, he deſired to be excuſed in that, ſaying, What he can tell is one thing, but pHere is a p…ain confeſſion of guilt, yet ſo, as he will not he his own Accuſer: This is for the Common-wealth to prove: A thing eaſie to be done.to accuſe himſelfe is another thing. It being further demanded of him, whether he was ſatisfied that the Priſoner was the Iohn Lilburn mentioned in the Act, he ſaid, he was not: And being aſkt what made him think ſo, He anſwered, he was qThis is a Maxim laid down by Tyrants: OnelyOnly we never heard ſo much from the mouth of a ſubject before But ſee, what it is to be a Juryman, viz. to be above a Parliament, above Law. More then a ſubject, arbitrary, abſolute, not bound to give an accoūt of his actions to any mā The Roman freedom was nothing to this for priviledges.not bound to give any account of what he did in that buſineſſe, but to God himſelfe.
WIlliam Hitchcock of Watlyn-ſtreet, Woollen Draper, who ſaith he was of Lievt: Col: John Lilburns Jury, and that the Jury found him not guilty: he being aſkt the Queſtions expreſſed in the Foremans Examination, he anſwered, he had diſcharged his rLex dei eſt regula conſcientiae, ſaith P. Mart. loc. com claſ. 2. c 1. Not Lilburnes whymſies and falſhoods, nor a mans own will and luſt.conſcience in what he had done, and deſireth the Councell not to ask him any queſtions. For he can give no other Anſwer, and is ſIn reading this mans reſolution, it puts us in mind of a company of good fellows, who meeting at a Taverne (as theſe did) agreed among themſelves that they would pay only ſo much for their reckoning, and reſolved to give no more: but they were made to pay a great deale more before they departed: now who knows but it may be ſo with theſe reſolute men.reſolved to give no other Anſwer.
And being aſkt concerning the meeting of the Jury to agree of an Anſwer to be given to the Councell: He firſt tIt would be worth the knowing what character was given to Lilburn concerning theſe men, as to encourage him to to make choiſe of them for his Jury: ſeeing it appears they are ſuch as make no conſcience of lying: It is probable he had a hint of ſome ſuch thing before hand, and thought them the fitter to ſerve his turn.denied that they had any other meeting, then what they had the ſame night his Tryall was. But being aſkt particularly, if they met not at the Windmill Taverne in Coleman-ſtreet this morning, he acknowledgeth they did, but denied he heard of any Order of Parliament for ſending for the Jury, nor did they meet upon the buſineſſe of John Lilburn, or that they did at the Meeting ſpeake of it, but onelyonly met to drinke a pint of Wine, as they had agreed to doe, the ſame night they gave up their Verdict.
THomas Everſhot of Watlin-ſtreet Woollen Draper, who ſaith he was one of John Lilburns Jury, and that they found him not guilty, but denyed to give any Anſwer to any further Questions, ſaying he was uQuere, whether this mās conſcience when he lyed againſt it, was not as well ſatisfied, as whē he found Lilburn not guilty.ſatisfied in his own Conſcience in what he did. And being aſked, whether the Jury did not meet this morning to agree of an Anſwer to be given to the Councell, xWhen there were brought before King Demetrius 8 perſons who had conſpird, his death, he made it matter of admiration, that ſo many could agree together in a deſign ſo cruel & bloody. It is in truth a wonderfull shing that there ſhould be found in this City 12 Jurymen ſo voyd of conſcience and the feare of God, as to agree together in a thing ſo evill and nought, as Heathens wou'd ſcorne to have done.denieth that they did, or that they met at all ſince the night of the Tryall, untill they met at the Councell.
The perſons following were Examined the 29 of Auguſt, 1653. in the morning.
THomas Smith of Cornhill, Haberdaſher of Small Wares, he ſaith he was of Iohn Lilburns Iury, and found him not guilty, but yBut whether the State may not refuſe to reſt ſatisfied in ſuch an Anſwer that's the Queſtion: we ſhall leave this to Time.refuſeth to Anſwer to any other Queſtions, ſaying, he was call'd to ſerve his Countrey in this particular; and that he had done it aHe might have ſaid rather, according to his Ignorance; for had he done the thing wth underſtanding, he would not have been either afraid or aſham'd to have given the Councell a reaſon of his action.according to the beſt of his underſtanding; acknowledgeth the meeting of the Iury at the VVindmill Taverne yeſterday morning.
GIlbert Gayne of Dunſtans in the weſt, Grocer, he ſaith he was one of Iohn Lilburns Iury, and found him not guilty. And he being aſkt what the iſſue was, he acknowledgeth that he was Indicted for Fellony, for coming into England; but ſaith the Iury did find as they did, becauſe they bSo did Lambert Simenel take upō him to be Edward Earl of Warwick, Son & Heir to the Duke of Clarence, but he was a counterfeit, & for taking upon him that wch he was not, had his juſt puniſhment in the end.tooke themſelves to be Iudges of the Law, as well as of the Fact; and that although the Court did declare, they were Iudges of the Fact onelyonly, yet the Iury were otherwiſe perſwaded from what they heard out of the cTheſe Law-Books will appear to be onelyonly the wind which came from Lilburn, which blew their heads too & fro, like weather-cocks.Law-Books. He confeſſeth he himſelfe did at firſt differ from the reſt of the Jury, but was convinc't by their Reaſons; he confeſſeth the meeting of the Jury.
GRiffeth Owen of Biſhopſgate ward, Brewer, he acknowledgeth he was of Liev: Col: Iohn Lilburns Iury, and that they found him not guilty, becauſe he was dHowſoever they agreed to give no reaſon of their action to the Councel: yet on the contrary ſo much is ſpoken by them, as doth make it evident they were of Tomlins mind, that is, right or wrong, reſolv'd to quit the Priſoner.not ſatisfied that the Priſoner was the John Lilburn mentioned in the Act; and that he had never ſeene John Lilburn before that day, nor was he ſollicited in his behalfe by any perſon: He acknowledgeth the Jury met yeſterday morning at the VVindmill Taverne, but made no agreement what Anſwer to make the Councel.
The Ʋnrighteouſneſſe of this Ʋnreaſonable Jury, is ſo fully diſcovered by themſelves, as there is no need of adding any thing thereunto. It is reported of the waters of Nilus, that having run many hundred miles a pure and clear water, when it comes neer the Mediterranean Sea it begins to grow brackiſh and ſalt, and at laſt it falls into the Sea, and looſeth its name. We read of many juſt and honeſt Juries in the dayes of our fore-fathers: Some hundred yeares agoe, Jury-men made Conſcience of what they did, and fear'd an Oath. Now that the ſame is changed, and the water become bitter and corrupt, what may this preſage. If we may freely here deliver our opinion, thus we think. The way of proceeding by twelve men in the Tryall of Malefactors, is neer an end, and ſhortly to be ſwallowed up by the Supream Authority of the Nation: So as neither the name nor thing ſhall be any more in the Common-wealth of England.
FINIS.
End of the text · Arthur Hesilrige, John Lilb Tried and Cast (1653)