Gangrena Part 3, Theological tract · Letter 40
A Copie of a Letter written from a godly Miniſter in Holland to ſome Reverend and godly Miniſters here in London.
Reverend Brethren,
I Have been ſparing in writing unto you, albeit I here have great need of correſpondence in reſpect I am as it were alone among ſo many of different diſpoſitions and nations. I acknowledge the blame in my ſelfe, who have not ſought it of you, of whoſe willingneſſe I am confident. Now a particular occaſion hath forced to break off, wherein I deſire your reſolution. The Currents that are brought over hither theſe laſt two weeks make mention that the Aſſembly of Divines are about the penning of the Articles of Faith, and that when the Article concerning the Trinity was preſented unto the *The Parliament may by this ſee what prejudice ſome of theſe Independent weekly Pamphleters doe them, by ſpeaking of their affaires whileſt under debate, and before finiſhed, and how by their expreſſions in their Newes Books, the reformed Churches abroad and many at home come to be greatly offended with the Parliaments proceedings, as if they denyed the Three Perſons in the Trinity, whereas this debate was not upon the Aſſemblies preſenting the Articles of Religion, but upon an Ordinance to puniſh wi…h death thoſe who ſhould deny the Terms expreſſed in the Ordinance, where among others Perſon was; but for the thing whatſoever was ſaid of the word Perſon, it was Voted at that time.Parliament, they would not admit of the word Perſon, becauſe it is a word not uſed in the firſt three hundred yeers, and was the cauſe of great diviſion and troubles in the Chriſtian Churches; This ſeemeth very ſtrange unto many here, ſeeing the word foreign Heb. 1. 3. was never nor is otherwiſe tranſlated in the Latin, French, Dutch, nor our language; neither have any excepted againſt it but Antitrinitarians, Arrians, and Socinians and others of that ſort. I have ſpoken with the Dutch Miniſters concerning this, and they admire that the Parliament ſeemeth to have ſuch reſpect unto thoſe damned Hereticks; and the more that the Orthodox in Poland in their late Declaration would not grant the name of Brethren in Chriſtianity to the Socinians. One of the Dutch Miniſters of this Town told me, when we were ſpeaking of this purpoſe, that a Book-ſeller ſaid to him, that ſundry Engliſh Merchants were ſeeking to buy the works of Socinus, Oſtorodius, Oniedinus, Crellius, and eſpecially Socinus de ſervatore; and when the Book-ſeller anſwered that they could not have thoſe books in thoſe Countries, becauſe they are diſcharged by Ordinance of the Generall States, the Merchants ſaid unto him, Nevertheleſſe you may bring them from other Countries, and we will give you for them what you will; whereupon that Miniſter when he told me this, ſaid, The Eſtate of England is lamentable, for it ſeemeth that Socinianiſme waxeth there; for this practice, and that excepting at the word, is too great evidence thereof. I heare alſo that Maſter Simons hath written unto his Congregation here very confidently, that Toleration ſhall be granted, even with theſe terms, In ſpight of them who have enterpriſed the contrary. Wherefore, beloved Brethren, I humbly beſeech you to let me know the certainty of this matter, that (if poſſible) I may give ſatisfaction unto wel-affected perſons, who think this excepting at that word to import no leſſe then a condemning of, or at leaſt a departing from the Orthodox Confeſſions of all the Reformed Churches. If in this or any other particular Occurrents it will pleaſe you to give me intelligence, you may direct your Letters unto R. W. who is a Skipper, and comes uſually betwixt London and this Town; wherein you ſhall do good unto many, and eſpecially unto
Octob. 13. 23. 1646. Your Loving Brother
There is one Andrew Wyke of the County of Suffolk a Mechanick, but turned a great Preacher and Dipper, who for his Preaching and Dipping being brought before the Committee of that County, carried himſelf like Lilburne, Overton, and other fellow Sectaries, refuſing to anſwer the Chair-man any queſtions, as whether he had been at the Univerſity, ſaying, I am a free man, and not bound to anſwer to any Interrogatory, I will anſwer to no Interrogatory, either to accuſe my ſelf, or any other; beſides he gave reproachfull words, reproving the Committee, as, You may think to ſpeak what you pleaſe now, with ſuch other language. This Wyke, or ſome other Sectary hath printed a Pamphlet, call'd The Innocent in Priſon complaining; or, A true Relation of the proceedings of the Committee at Ipſwich, the Committee at Bury St. Edmunds in the County of Suffolk, againſt one Andrew Wyke a witneſſe of Jeſus, in the ſame County; who was committed to Priſon June 3. 1646. In which Pamphlet the Committee and divers Members of it by name are abuſed, reſembling them to the Jewes who condemned Chriſt, and himſelf to Chriſt; and the Committee is exclaimed upon fearfully pag. 10.
There is one Katherine Chidly an old Browniſt, and her ſonne a young Browniſt, a pragmaticall fellow, who not content with ſpreading their poyſon in and about London, goe down into the Country to gather people to them, and among other places have been this Summer at Bury in Suffolke, to ſet up and gather a Church there, where (as I have it from good hands) they have gathered about ſeven perſons, and kept their Conventicles together; who being one night very late together about their Church-affairs, a mad woman breaking from her Keeper and running out of the houſe ſhe was kept in, happened to light upon the houſe where this company was, and ſtood up in the entry of the houſe; they being upon diſſolving their meeting, and going to their ſeverall homes, as they were going out, there ſtood this woman in her ſmock in the entry ſpeaking never a word, which when they ſaw, they ran over one another for fear of this white devill, ſome one way, ſome another, almoſt frighted out of that little wit they had. Gaffar Lanſeter of Bury (for ſo he was, unleſſe he hath commenced Maſter by preaching) whom I have ſpoken of in the Second Part of Gangraena, was a great man with Katherine Chidly and her ſonne, and is left Preacher to that company of Sectaries in their room; and I have great reaſon to think by the Epiſtle to the Reader, that Katherine Chidly and her ſonne made that Book call'd Lanſeters Launce, becauſe Katherine Chidly and her ſons Books (for the mother and the ſon made them together, one inditing, and the other writing) are highly magnified, and the braſen-faced audacious old woman reſembled unto Jael; but as for Lann…ters Launce for my Gangrana, I ſhall ſhew it to be made not of iron or ſteele, in no ſort able or uſefull to lance or enter the Gangraena, but a lance of brown painted paper, fit for children to play with; and to aſſure the Reader of it, I received this laſt week a Meſſage to this purpoſe, from one of the Miniſters who gave intelligence about Lanſeter, that he was about perfecting the proofes and particulars about Lanſeters buſineſſe, and I ſhould ſhortly hear from him; and within this two dayes a godly underſtanding man who was preſent at this meeting when Lanſeter preached upon Ezra, gave me an account of the buſineſſe, of the truth of the whole, and hath put me in a way, whereby, under the hands of perſons preſent at the meeting, I may have it confirmed; and ſo among the confutations of ſome other Pamphlets, I ſhall inſert this of Lanſeters.
There is one John Hall a great Sectary, who hath vented many erroneous Poſitions in ſome parts of Barkſhire and thereabouts; I had a copy of them from a Reverend Miniſter of the Aſſembly; and in the Second Part of Gangraena in the Catalogue of Errors, ſuch Errors as he vented, viz. ſuch as were not reckoned up in the Firſt Part of Gangraena, were there inſerted by me, though he was not named at all in that Book; but now diſcovering in ſeverall Counties more Sectaries then I did formerly in the Firſt and Second Parts, I have thought good to name him among many others, that the people of thoſe parts may beware of him, and ſhun him as a dangerous man; concerning whom I received a Letter from a godly Miniſter in Barkſhire, which is as followes.
Sir,
THat I may not be wanting to the Cauſe of God, or my promiſe to you, I ſent the laſt week to ſpeak with Maſter F. but failed of a full anſwer, he not being within; but thus much I received, that Maſter S. had been there, and that he had taken a Copy of the Poſitions, ſo that if you have any acquaintance with him he can fully inform you about this matter: He is one of the Synod, a Reverend and Orthodox Divine. I ſhall ſend to Maſter F. again, and when I underſtand more, if I ſee juſt cauſe, you ſhall hear further from me. The Teacher of theſe things is one John Hall, ſometimes of Colebrooke, but as I am informed now reſident in or about Henley upon Thames. Thus deſiring the Lord both to direct and proſper your labours in vindicating the Truth of God, and oppoſing Hereſies, I reſt
Yours in the Lord Chriſt.
A…guſt, 24. A godly and underſtanding young man told me that a Quarter-Maſter belonging to a Regiment of horſe, coming up into a Pulpit to preach, prepared the Country people for his Sermon, by ſaying they ſhould not wonder to ſee a man in ſuch a habit to preach, for he had a command from the Spirit to preach, and he was under the command of the Spirit, and muſt do accordingly, ☞and told them though they might ſay he was no Scholar, yet that was no matter, for the Spirit without learning could enable a man to the work.
A Gentleman of good underſtanding told me lately before other company, that he meeting with a Captaine of horſe belonging to Cromwells Regiment (as 'tis commonly calld) with whom he rid ſome miles, and dined alſo at the Sheafe in Daintry the laſt of Auguſt, this Captain told him, that the Parliament and Scots were agreed (that was the newes) of delivering up the King to Colonell Poyns, who was with his forces to convay him as farre as Trent, or thereabouts, and then Cromwells Regiment was to bring him up to London to ſee him ſafe convayed to the Parliament, and if he would not ſigne the Propoſitions, then he ſaid the Parliament would decoll him, and thus they will decoll him, acting with his hand in putting it to his own neck, in away of cutting off; and this Captain added further, that he thought it would never be well with this Kingdome till the King was ſerved ſo. This man in his diſcourſe ſpeaking of Presbyteriall Government, ſaid it was a hundred times worſe then Epiſcopall. This Captaine when he came to Daintry, enquiring for his Company where it quartred, and not hearing ſuddenly where they were quartered, was much troubled, miting his hand on his breaſt, that at ſuch a time as this of going to fetch up the King, hee ſhould be away, and hee took care for freſh horſes for his journey Northward to fetch up the King.
This laſt Auguſt, I was informed from a good hand, viz. one who came out of Northamptonſhire, that ſome of that Regiment calld Cromwells Regiment, quartering in Northamptonſhire, would not ſuffer the Miniſters to preach quietly, but affronted them; among others one Maſter H. a godly Miniſter going to his Cure, one S. a Trooper who quartered in that Town, pleaded that Jeſuites ſhould have their liberty of Conſcience as well as other men; and in the afternoon when this Miniſter had done preaching, ſtood up in the open Church, ſpeaking to the people, pretending as to queſtion ſome things delivered, but indeed fell upon venting to the people the doctrine of Univerſall Grace, that no man was condemned for any thing but unbeleef; whereupon Maſter H. ſpake to him, why do you not ſpeak to ſomewhat which I preached as you pretended? upon that this Trooper ſaid, I accept againſt that you preached for ſaying we might not queſtion God, but where he hath given us a word for ſuch a thing, we muſt beleeve it without queſtioning him; to whom Maſter H. replyed, if you will queſtion God, you may well queſtion me. I was told at the ſame time by one who came out of Northamtonſhire, that one of the Sectarian ſouldiers laid his hand on his ſword, and ſaid, this ſword ſhould never be laid down, nor many thouſands more, whilſt there was a Prieſt left in England.
I have been told it by ſeverall that in Northamptonſhire, ſome of the Sectarian ſouldiers being in company with a young Scholar, a godly Miniſters ſonne in Northamptonſhire, one Maſter Smith, and venting ſome of their opinions he reaſoning againſt them, and belike putting them to non-plus, they wounded him terribly, ſo that it was thought he could not live, yea it was feared hee was dead already.
A worthy Member of the Houſe of Commons told me at the latter end of Auguſt laſt, that Letters were written out of Hampſhire from ſome perſons in place there, to Members of the Houſe of Commons, complaining that the ſouldiers who billited there carried themſelves ſo ill, as that if they continued there, they could not ſerve them, but muſt leave the Country; for they infuſe ſuch poyſonous opinions againſt all Government, and perſons of Authority, as that none of us ſhall be regarded.
Auguſt the 12. I was certainly informed from eare witneſſes, that a few dayes before, two very godly and underſtanding men well known, had diſcourſe with a Captaine belonging to Colonell Hammonds Regiment, who poſitively maintained and affirmed theſe things to them, ſpeaking them often as his opinion, and the reſt of the Army of his way, That the Houſe of Commons was the Parliament of England and not only a part of it; That if this Houſe of Commons ſhould give any Order for them to go fight with the Scots, they would go; That if the Houſe of Commons ſhould give order to come againſt the City of London, they would do it; and he ſpake of the City of London with much deteſtation, ſaying, hee was perſwaded the City of London hated that Army, with other words to that effect; This Captaine asked them, if they heard not of the plot to deſtroy the Army, to ſend part of them into Ireland, to be there cut off (ſo the ſending of forces into Ireland was interpreted.) This Captaine to another honeſt man, either the ſame day, or within a few dayes maintained the ſame things in ſubſtance, ſo that one of them telling a Colonell belonging to the Army what this Captaine had ſaid, that upon an order of the Houſe of Commons, they would as willingly fight againſt the City of London and Scots, as ever they did againſt the Cavaleers, the Colonell anſwered readily, it was no ſuch wonder, for he beleeved it was the ſenſe of a great many in the Army.
A perſon of worth who was at the Bath this Summer, told me that he had heard Maſter Saltmarſh, and Maſter▪ Del preach there before the Generall, but never heard them pray for forgivneſſe of ſinnes; and ſaid he was glad he had heard them, that he might know what manner of men they were.
It hath been told me by two or three of the Town of Wantwich in Barkſhire, that at a Town neer Wantwich, and in Wantwich a great Market Town, a Sectary belonging to the Army, preached in the Pariſh Churches; one of the Texts upon which he preached was out of the Revelation, where he ſpake much of Antichriſt, and that all thoſe were Antichriſtian who were for childrens Baptiſme, and that none could be ſaved unleſſe they were rebaptized. The man when he had done preaching at Wantwich, ſpoke to the people, and deſired them to object what they could againſt his Sermon, and he would anſwer them; he did not bid them come to his chamber to be ſatisfied as many would, but he was publikly ready to anſwer any objections made againſt what he had preached.
There is a very honeſt man of Maſter Whitakers Pariſh in Bermondſeyſtreet told me, that one Marſhall of that Pariſh a great Sectary, refuſing to pay his Tyths, according to the Ordinance of Parliament, was queſtioned, and upon proof before three Juſtices of Peace was adjudged to pay it, but not paying for all this, two godly men, Maſter W. and he (who told me this ſtory) came to demand it, or elſe diſtraine, whereupon he calld theſe honeſt men robbers and theifs, and ſaid the Parliament made an Ordinance to rob men, which being complained of and proved, this Marſhall ☜was committed. Now when he was committed, Lilburne aſſiſted him in his buſineſſe, came to this honeſt man who related to me the ſtory, to ſee the Warrant, by vertue of which they proceeded to diſtraine; and in fine this Marſhall arreſted the Juſtices of Peace ☜(who went according to the Ordinance) and the Diſtrainers, but at laſt being brought before the Committee of Examinations, he promiſed to withdraw his action, and ſaid, he ſpake thoſe words in his paſſion; and yet ſince his promiſe, hath renewed his ſuite, and the Juſtices and Diſtrainers are now troubled by him.
A godly Miniſter of this City told me June 12. 1646. that he diſcourſing with a Major belonging to the Army about the Government of the Church, he told him plainly that they were not ſo much againſt Presbyteriall Government (though many thought them ſo) as againſt the being tyed to any Government at all; for if the Parliament would ſet up the Independent Government, and injoyne that upon them, they ſhould be as much againſt ☜that as againſt Presbyteriall Government: They held liberty of Conſcience, that no man ſhould be bound, or tyed to any thing, but every man left free to hold what they pleaſed; that was the judgement and true genius of that ſort of men in the Army, calld Independents, that in all matters of Religion no man ſhould be bound, but every one left to follow his own Conſcience.
There is a libellous Pamphlet entituled, The Lord Majors farwell from his Office of Majoraltie, which was ſent to him in a Letter by an Anabaptiſt, one of the meek and quiet of the earth, as he often calls himſelf and his fellowes in that Pamphlet, and coming to my Lords hands over-night, next day he heard that it was in print; the ſubſtance of which Pamphlet is to charge my Lord Major with breach of promiſe, in not endeavoring to procure of the Parliament, a publike diſputation between the Anabaptiſt… and the Presbyterians, and for preſenting an unjuſt Remonſtrance to the Parliament, for ſuppreſſing both Anabaptiſts and Separatiſts. Now I ſhall ſpeak ſomething to both theſe, and vindicate the truth againſt this lying Libeller. Secondly, I ſhall Animadvert on ſome paſſages and expreſſions in this Pamphlet.
For the firſt, my Lord Majors breach of promiſe, upon which hee runns out and deſcants, builds this inference among ☞others, That if Maſter Edwards or Doctor Baſtwick had any ſuch blot againſt us, doubtleſſe there would be great Volumes of a hundred ſheets a peece blazed throughout the Kingdome to diſgrace us, as your breach of promiſe; I anſwer breifly, the building muſt needs fall, when as the foundation falls; my Lord Major broke not his promiſe, but was very carefull of it, and mindfull of what you ſay hee promiſed, namely, to know the pleaſure of the Parliament, and to endeavour the liberty of a publike diſputation, and my Lord was ſo conſciencious in it, both in regard of God and in regard of men, that he might not be upbraided with breach of promiſe, knowing well what a generation he had to deale with, that he was never at quiet after his promiſe was made, till the Houſe of Commons was moved in the buſineſſe; and therefore every time when he …aw Maſter Recorder, he minded him to move the Houſe, he put a note into his hands becauſe he ſhould not forget; when he ſaw him not for ſome time, he writ to him to mind him, and was never contented till it was done; and Maſter Recorder did take in his time within ſome weeks after my Lords promiſe, watching when he might acquaint the Houſe ſeaſonably, without interrupting other great publike occaſions of the Kingdome; and the Houſe of Commons Anſwer was, they approved of the wiſdome of my Lord Major, in forbidding the diſputation at that time, and that they would not give conſent for a diſputation; and for the truth of this, let Maſter Recorder be asked, and other Members who were preſent; and therefore Maſter Recorder in all places, and to all who ſpeaks to him about it, clears my Lord Major that he punctually performed his promiſe; and if it be any ſuch hainous crime to hinder ſuch a tumultuous diſputation, as that was like to have been, let them lay the blame upon the Houſe of Commons, if they dare, and not upon the Lord Major. And what I write in this matter, I ſpeak knowingly, as being aſſured of the truth of it, from the mouth of him who ſhould know. But leaſt the Anabaptiſts ſhould think, whilſt I vindicate the truth againſt a ſcandalous reproach caſt upon the Lord Major, I do it out of reſpects as being glad the Diſputation was put off, and ſince denyed; I here declare my ſelf, that I could wiſh withall my heart there were a publike Diſputation, even in the point of Paedobaptiſme and of Dipping, between ſome of the Anabaptiſts, and ſome of our Miniſters; and had I an intereſt in the Houſes to prevaile to obtaine it (which I ſpeak not as to preſume of any ſuch power, being ſo meane and weak a man) it ſhould be one of the firſt Petitions I would put up to the Honorable Houſes for a publike Diſputation, as was at Zurick, namely, that both Houſes would give leave to the Anabaptiſts to chuſe for themſelves ſuch a number of their ableſt men, and the Aſſembly leave to chuſe an equall number for them, and that by Authority of Parliament publike Notaries ſworne, might be appointed to write down all, ſome Members of both Houſes preſent to ſee to the Peace kept, and to be Judges of the faire play and liberty given the Anabaptiſts, and that there might be ſeverall dayes of Diſputation, leave to the utmoſt given the Anabaptiſts to ſay what they could, and if upon ſuch faire and free debates it ſhould be found the Anabaptiſts to be in the Truth, then the Parliament not only to Tolerate them, but to Eſtabliſh and ſettle their way throughout the whole Kingdome; but if upon Diſputation and debate, the Anabaptiſts ſhould be found in an Error (as I am confident they would) that then the Parliament ſhould forbid all Dipping, and take ſome ſevere courſe with all Dippers, as the Senate of *Epiſt. Zuing. & Oecolampad. lib. z.Zurick did after the ten ſeverall Diſputations allowed the Anabaptiſts.
For the ſecond particular, my Lord Major is charged with preſenting of an unjuſt Remonſtrance to the Parliament, for ſuppreſſing Anabaptiſts, &c I anſwer, my Lord Major preſented it not, hee went not to Weſtminſter with it, but ſome Aldermen and Common counſell men choſen by the Court: The Remonſtrance was the Act of the Court of Common-counſell, and not my Lords Majors alone, nor my Lord Majors any otherwiſe, but as a Member of that Honourable Court concurring with the reſt; and then whereas this Libeller calls it an unjuſt Remonſtrance, 'tis a moſt juſt and equall Remonſtrance, as hath been fully proved by Maſter Bellamie in his Juſtification and Vindication of the City Remonſtrance, and in that Book entituled the Sectaries Anatomized; and if I would give liberty to my pen, I could further juſtifie not only the juſtneſſe of it, but the neceſſity of it, and ſhow demonſtratively, that it will never be well with this Kingdome, whilſt Sectaries are in places of publike truſt, and that the ſubjects of this Kingdome can never expect juſtice, nor right, whilſt men of other Religions, then what is eſtabliſhed by Law, are in ☞places of power; and I wonder that the Anabaptiſts and Sectaries, ſhould be ſo offended at that part of the Remonſtrance, when as 'tis their dayly practiſe, not by faire and juſt wayes (God knowes) but by undermining, watching for iniquity, laying ſnares for men; yea going againſt all principles, Military and Civill, of Honour and of Juſtice, to put men from places of Truſt and Command, of which there are many remarkable unparalleld inſtances, and the world in due time may have a true account of them.
And laſtly, whereas 'tis ſaid, preſenting a Remonſtrance for procuring Licence and Authority, to ſuppreſſe all ſuch as have good principles and grounds for their practiſes; thats moſt falſe, for in the ſame Remonſtrance againſt Hereticks, Blaſphemers, Anabaptiſts, &c. they petition for the ſetling of Religion and Church-government, according to the word of God, and the example of the beſt Reformed Churches, which Religion, Church-government ſo built, hath certainly good ground for its practiſe. For the ſecond, I deſire the Reader to obſerve a few things upon ſome of the expreſſions in this Pamphlet, that he calls the Anabaptiſts and Sectaries the meek and quiet of the Land, as Maſter Peters doth, the harmleſſe Anabaptiſts, then which that there are not a more turbulent unquiet people in the world, made of Salt-Peter, let this Book witneſſe, and the language in it given the cheif Magiſtrate of the City, with the railing ſeditious Libells put out dayly againſt the King, Houſe of Lords, Aſſembly, yea and the Houſe of Commons too. The Anabaptiſts of old calld themſelves the meek of the Earth, and ſaid, that now the promiſe muſt be fulfilled, the meek ſhall inherite the Earth, when they by bloud, Rapine, cruel Warrs, ſeaſed on the poſſeſſions of others. Secondly, that theſe Sectaries will take things for granted, and therupon paſſe deſperate cenſures upon Magiſtrates, Miniſters, and all, when as there is no ſuch thing but quite contrary, as going on to aggravate things againſt my Lord Major, and reſemble him to wicked Ahaz, &c. for breaking his promiſe, when as he performed it moſt punctually and conſcientiouſly, conſidering himſelf both as a Chriſtian, and as a Magiſtrate, in ſuch an eminent place. Thirdly, that theſe new Anabaptiſts, as well as the old, are guilty of ſpeaking evill of dignities, and bringing railing accuſation in print againſt Powers, branding the Lord Major with that brand ſet by God himſelf on wicked Ahaz, this is that Lord Major of London, Thomas Adams by name, &c.
A Citizen a freind of mine having been this laſt ſummer in Cheſhire, and divers other Countries upon his occaſions, heard many Malignants ſay, they would turne Independents, for then they ſhould not take the Covenant, nor be forced to any thing, but be at their liberty.
June the 11. I was told by a godly Citizen, and a cordiall friend to the Publike, that ſome of the Independents have ſaid, they will have their way yet, whatſoever it coſt them.
In ſome of the weekly news-Books, I have obſerved paſſages inſerted of the great love and unity in the Army between the ſouldiers, Presbytery and Independency making no breach; and in the Perfect Occurrences of the Week, calld the two and twentieth Week, ending the 29. of May, 1646. the Pamphleter tells us 'tis very obſervable to conſider the love and unity which is among the ſouldiers; Now I asked about that time a Chaplaine of the Army, a moderate Presbyterian, whether it was ſo, and how it came about, he gave me this anſwer, through the great forbearance of the Presbyterians, who ſuffered them to have their wills, and croſſed them not, took all patiently, and (ſaid he) if the Presbyterians ſhould not have done ſo, but ſtood upon things as the Independents, it had been impoſſible but the Army had been broken in ☜twenty peeces many a time before this, for the Sectaries are of ſuch a proud high ſpirit, that if they had not had their wills, there would have been no peace; and indeed both in Armies, Aſſembly, City, there hath been that forbearing, yeelding on the Presbyterian party, in reference to the publike, that the Independents and Sectaries, if they had been in their place would never have done, though it had coſt the totall loſſe of three Kingdomes. I beleeve no age nor ſtory can parallell, all things conſidered, the Love, Patience, long-ſuffering of the Presbyterians, yea the paſſing by and putting up ſo many provocations, and unſufferable abuſes as they have done, and that from a contemptible handfull of men in compariſon; but thats our comfort, That the patient expectation of the poore ſhall not be forgotten for ever, and that God will ſave the afflicted people, but will bring downe high looks.
I have been aſſured from divers good hands, as Citizens and others, that the greateſt thing in the City Remonſtrance that the Sectaries are offended at, is that about places of publike truſt, they take that moſt hainouſly, that Sectaries ſhould not have places of honour, profit, and power; which clearly ſhewes to all the world, 'tis not a bare Toleration of their conſciences, & of enjoying their own perſonall Eſtates in the Land that they ſeek, or which would content them; but they look for Preferment, Rewards, power to have others under them; ſo that 'tis a Domination, and to be in ſuch a condition that others may ſeek to them to be Tolerated, that they aime at; a Toleration and liberty of conſcience contents them not, but a Liberty of Offices, and a power of great places, both in Military and civill affaires they ſtand for. Maſter Burroughs in the yeare 1645. both preached and printed, even in that Tractate where he pleades for a Toleration, That the Magiſtrate may, to men who differ from the State, in greater Errors, (at leaſt) deprive them of *Mr Rurr. …enicon. pag. 34.the benefits and priviledges of the State, notwithſtanding their pleas of conſcience: and in evills of leſſe moment, put them to ſome trouble in thoſe wayes of evill, ſo farre as to take off the wantoneſſe of their ſpirits, and the neglect of meanes; ſome *Mr Burroug. …enicon. pag. 36. 37.trouble may be layed in the way, ſo that men ſhall ſee there is ſomething to be ſuffered in that way; and there is no reaſon why any ſhould be offended at this; yea Maſter Burroughs grants one ſtep may be gone further, that in ſuch things as men by their weakneſſe make themſelves leſſe ſerviceable to the common-wealth or Church, they may be denyed ſome priviledges and benefits that are granted to others. And of this, Maſter Burroughs gives inſtances and enlarges it. Now certainly if this doctrine were good and true in the yeare, 1645. before the ſucceſſe of the new Modell, and the recruit of the Houſe of Commons, the doctrine in the City Remonſtrance, 1646. cannot be bad nor falſe, that would have Anabaptiſts, Heriticks, and Schiſmaticks kept, and removed from places of Publike truſt; If they may be denyed priviledges and benefits that are granted to others, and ſome trouble laid in their way, &c. for their opinions, then certainly they ſhould not be preferred above others to all places of publike truſt, whilſt men who conforme to the true Religion eſtabliſhed by the State, be kept out, yea turned out of places; And as Maſter Burroughs was of this mind, ſo I and divers others have heard Mr Tho. Goodwin ingenuouſly profeſſe ſince this Parliament, though the Magiſtrate ſhould forbeare tender conſciences that could not come up to the Rule, yet it was moſt equall that the countenance and preferments ☜in the Magiſtrates hands, ſhould be beſtowed only on thoſe who conformed to what was eſtabliſhed; and therefore ſaid hee, we deſire only to be ſuffered to live, and enjoy the Ordinances, but expect no places nor any of that maintenance which is in the States diſpoſing; and therefore the Remonſtrants in that branch of their Petition were …arre from Perſecution, Injuſtice, if Maſter Burroughs and Maſter Goodwin may be beleeved, and that which they deſired moſt neceſſary to take off the wantonneſſe of mens ſpirits, and the neglect of meanes; and in all this, the…'s no more graines of trouble then might help aginſt this wantonneſſe, &c. and the truth of it is theſe preferments, places of publike truſt, &c. have made more Sectaries and Anti-Presbyterians, then all the Sermons and Books ever preached and printed by the Sectaries and 'tis one of the great ſprings of all our evills, the prime cauſe of all Injuſtice, Oppreſſion, Error, Faction; and things will never go well with the publike, nor the union of both Kingdomes be ſoundly ſetled, till Hereticks, Blaſphemers, Schiſmaticks, ☜Seekers, Anabaptiſts, Antinomians, Libertines, Browniſts, and Independents, be removed from all places of publike truſt, both Martiall and Civill; and 'tis a moſt righteous thing to Petition for it. As the zealous Proteſtants of this Kingdome could not expect Juſtice, protection from Popiſh Counſellours, Judges, Juſtices, &c. then in place, and we cryed out of it before this Parliament, as an intolerable griveance and miſcheif to the good ſubjects of this Kingdome, becauſe men but ſuſpected of Popery, or whoſe Wives were Papiſts, were in places of publike truſt (for by that meanes Papiſts were brought off, and ſuch as were cald Puritants, felt their power upon all occaſions) no more can the Orthodox Presbyterians expect right, juſtice, from Sectarian Counſellors, Juſtices of Peace, &c. eſpecially in differences between them and Independents; for all Sectaries looke upon cordiall Presbyterians with a greater eye of malignity, jealouſie, particular intereſt then any other ſort of men; and therefore to ſtrengthen their owne party, will weaken and diſcourage them all they can poſſibly.
There were ſome Independents, that dining in June laſt at the houſe of a Presbyterian who married an Independent, were ſpeaking of the Presbyterians, that generally all of them deſired that help might goe for Ireland, and that on the Faſt day in June they preached and prayed much for help to relieve Ireland, and among other Miniſters they named one that ſhould pray thus, or to this effect, That now Oxford was taken, all might goe, Lord let them all goe: Theſe Independents ſaid the Presbyterians had ſome deſign ſure, they were ſo earneſt for the Army to goe to Ireland; but ſome of the Independents ſaid, they had ſomething elſe, or other uſe for the Army then to goe to Ireland.
The Sectaries in the MonethMonth of May laſt raged extremely, and ſpake deſperately, ſo that a Common-Councell man who had heard many of them ſpeak, told me he had ſaid to ſome of them, that they muſt provide Bedlam for them: The newes of the Kings going to the Scots, the Remonſtrance of the City of London, with ſome other things that fell out that MonethMonth, vexed them terribly; one Sectary a kind of Gentleman belonging to a Parliament man ſaid in the hearing of ſome, that the King, the Houſe of Lords, the City, the Scots, and the Aſſembly were joyned together, but they had the Houſe of Commons and the Army; and gave out ſome ſuch words as if ſome three or foure thouſand horſe ſhould billet in the City: This man was had before my Lord Major for theſe words, and I being told of it by one who went to my Lord Majors with him, I alſo having an opportunity asked my Lord Major of the truth of it, who remembred there was ſuch a thing.
God grant the King, Houſe of Lords, City, Scots, Aſſembly be Animadverſ.well joyned together, and agreeing; and not only King, Lords, &c. but the Houſe of Commons alſo: The Lord ſend a perfect Peace and Union between the King and both Houſes, and give a good underſtanding and agreement alwayes between Parliament, Citie, Aſſembly, our Brethren of Scotland. Theſe kind of ſpeeches of the Commons and the Army put by themſelves, as divided from the Houſe of Lords, City, &c. are words of ſedition; but to vindicate the honour of the Houſe of Commons and the Army from ſuch ſpeeches as theſe, too frequent in the mouths of many Sectaries: I can aſſure the Kingdome from the mouths of many worthy Members of the Houſe of Commons, and of Commanders in the Army, how much ſoever theſe Sectaries preſume upon the Houſe of Commons, calling them in many *Remonſtrance of many thouſand Citizens, and other Freeborn people of England to their owne Houſe of Commons. An Alarum to the Houſe of Lords.Pamphlets of late, Their owne Houſe of Commons, our Houſe of Commons, and upon the Army, that they are Independents and for that party, that the greateſt number of Members of that Houſe by farre, are no Sectaries, and though ſome are crept in among them, Yet the body of the Houſe are neither Independents, Anabaptiſts, Antinomians, nor ſuch like; and ſo in the Army there are more Presbyterians then Independents, yea if the Army were divided into four parts, three parts of the four are no Independents, Anabaptiſts, Antinomians, &c. and therefore I hope to ſee the day of King, Lords, Commons, Scots, City of London, Armies, the body of the Kingdome, all concurring for the ſetlement of the Reformed Proteſtant Religion, and for the extirpating of Hereſie, Schiſme, Prophaneſſe, and all Doctrine which is not according to godlineſſe.
A Citizen, an able underſtanding man, related to me and two Citizens within theſe few dayes, that he and a great Independent ſpeaking together about the King, this Citizen urged that branch of the Covenant, That we have ſworn to defend the Kings Perſon and Authority, and to maintain His juſt power and greatneſſe; the Independent replyed preſently, what was his juſt power? ſuppoſe (ſaith this Independent) there were a theife, and you ſhould make a Covenant with him to maintaine his juſt priviledges, what of that? might you not for all that bring him to puniſhment? labouring to bring him to the Gallows were his juſt priviledges, and no breach of Covenant: whereupon ſaid this Citizen, Is this your interpretation of the Covenant? I would never have taken it whilſt the world ſtood in that ſenſe; and further ſaid this Citizen, when this Covenant was made and ſworne, what ever you can ſay againſt the King, as raiſing Wars againſt the Parliament, and what ever elſe you imagine, It was before this Covenant was taken; you knew as much of him before as now; ſo that tis ſtrange you ſhould ſpeak ſo: And then this Citizen reaſoned with this Independent againſt puniſhing the King, David was guilty of Murther and Adultery, and there were then Elders of the people, Princes and Judges in Iſrael as well as now, and yet none of them offered to queſtion David upon his life, or inflict puniſhment: neither do we find that God by the prophets gave any ſuch direction to puniſh David, though by the Law death was due for Murther to other men: we know God ſent the prophet Nathan to reprove him, and to bring him to repentance for his great ſinne, but not to ſtirre up the Princes, Judges and Elders of the people to proceed againſt him, as they did againſt Malefactors.