Gangrena Part 3, Theological tract · Part 1 – Part 2
The third Catalogue of the Errors, Hereſies, and ſtrange Opinions of the Sectaries of theſe times.
1. THat God hath a bodily ſhape and proportion: man was made according to the likeneſſe of God in perſonall ſhape, and God the Creator beareth the ſame form in ſhape and perſon which man hath.
This Opinion was held by ſome Hereticks in the fourth Century, For proofe of this vide Pamphlet entituled Little-Nonſuch, printed at London very lately, pag. 2.firſt known by the name of Audiani, and afterwards call'd Anthropomorphitae. Auguſtine in his Book de Haereſibus ad Quodvult Deum, cap. 50. writes of them, Audianos quos appellant, alii vocant Anthropomorphitas, quoniam Deum ſibi fingunt cogitatione carnali in ſimilitudinem imaginis corruptibilis hominis. Theodoret in his fourth Book Haeret. Fabul. writes there was one Animadverſ.Audaeus, who ſaid God was like to man, and gave to God the parts of a man, who fell into this Error by his miſunderſtanding of thoſe places of Scripture, which ſpeak of God according to mans underſtanding. Danaeus in his Tractate de Haereſibus▪ fully confutes this Opinion, and ſhows the ſtory of it; and in that, this Hereſie ſhould be now pleaded for in Print, it ſhows us how the Devill in theſe times revives old Errors dead and buried for many hundred yeers.
2. The ſtory of Adams eating the forbidden fruit, and of Little Nonſuch, pag, 4.the Serpent, is an Allegory; by the Serpent in that place is no other then concupiſcence, and by the fruit of the tree, ſome other eating then the eating of a materiall Apple is underſtood.
This alſo is an Error revived, held by David George, who lived Animadverſ.a hundred yeers ago: In David Georges life written in Latin by his ſonne in law Nicolaus Bleſdikius, pag. 161, 162. 'tis related that by the Serpent entiſing our firſt Parents, he meant concupiſcence, and pleads for an *Danaeus in his Tract. de Haereſibus cap. 4. 3. Among other Errors of the Origeniſts ſhows this to he one, that in the interpretation of Scripture they would perpetually Allegorize, ſo that they left nothing certain in the word of God neither that Parad…ſe, nor Adam, nor Eve, nor the waters, nor any thing which Moſes laies down in the whole Book of Geneſis. Whereupon Auguſtine writ 12 Books de Geneſi ad literam againſt ſuch Allegoriſts and Corrupters of the Scripture.allegoricall interpretation of the Serpent, becauſe the Hiſtoricall Narration of the Serpent, as it is laid down by Moſes, (ſaith David George) draws divers abſurdities with it.
3. In marriage there are no degrees of bloud or affinity forbidden, but a man may marry the next of kin to him; a brother may marry his Siſter, an Uncle his Neece, a Sonne his Fathers Little Nonſuch, pag. 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, &c.Wife, and ſo in any degrees without exception; ſo that if this liking to marry happen betwixt the neareſt of kindred, then it is alſo the moſt naturall, the moſt lawfull, and according to the Primitive purity and practiſe.
The maine ſcope of this booke called Little Nonſuch, or certaine Animadverſ.new queſtions, is to plead for Inceſtuous Marriages, where the Author ſets himſelfe to evade all the Scriptures in the Old and New Teſtament, ſaying, Tis not marriage ſimply with Siſters, Brothers Wives, &c. that is forbidden, ſo long as a man keeps wholly to ſuch a one having taken her for wife, but the committing fornication with them not being married. Now I ſhall ſhow the falſeneſſe of this by two Scriptures, The firſt in Leviticus 18. where both in the generall, verſe 6. and in particular the ſeveral degrees are forbidden expreſſely, verſe 7. 8, 9, 10, &c. of the Fathers wife, of the Siſter, of the Fathers Siſter, &c. And whereas the Author of that wicked Pamphlet pleads, that uncovering of nakedneſſe is meant of fornication only, and not of marriage: I Anſwer, The Holy Ghoſt in that Chapter expounds the uncovering of nakedneſſe to be marrying, verſe the 18. and makes taking to wife and uncovering nakedneſſe to be the ſame, as is evident by theſe words, Neither ſhalt thou take a Wiſe to her Siſter to vex her, to uncover her nakedneſſe beſides the other in her life time: that is, either thou ſhalt not take one wife to another, marrying another wife having one, or elſe marrie the ſiſter of thy wife whether ſhe be ſiſter by mother or by the father. Againe, the holy Ghoſt in this Chapter forbids that which is unlawfull with ſome kind of perſons, and not with all, and at ſome times and not at others; therefore limits it to ſuch a ſort of perſons, ſuch degrees of bloud; but now fornication is unlawfull with all, and at all times, a man may not uncover the nakedneſſe, that is, commit fornication with thoſe who are remoteſt in bloud or affinity, and that it muſt be underſtood ſo is evident from the 19. verſe, *Vide Ainſworth in Lev. 18. v. 19.Thou ſhalt not approach unto a woman to uncover …er nakedneſſe as long as ſhe is put apart for her uncleaneſſe; that is, every man was to abſtaine from his own wife during the time of her monthly fluors, which neceſſarily ſhowes tis meant of a mans wife, for from all other women a man muſt abſtaine alwayes, and tis never lawfull to approach to them, but even from a mans owne wife over who…e body he hath power at other times, he is then to abſtaine. Laſtly, the holy Ghoſt comes to ſpeak of fornication, verſe 20. Thou ſhalt not lie carnally with thy neighbours wiſe: There he forbids fornication, but in the former part of the Chapter he for bad Inceſt and Inceſtuons marriages. The other Scripture is in the New Teſtament, Mark 6. 17, 18. verſes, where John tell… Herod tis not lawfull for him to have his brother Philips wife; and this cannot be evaded, by ſaying John reproved Herod, taking her by force, or living in fornication with her; but not barely for marriage with her: For the text faith expreſly he had married her, and ſhe was willing to it as appears by the ſtory, becauſe ſhe had a quarrell againſt John Baptiſt, and would have killed him for preaching to Herod againſt it, and afterwards watched her opportunity of revenge againſt John, verſe 19. 24 preferring his head before halfe of the Kingdome. I have been the larger in this Animadverſion, becauſe divers Sectaries a… guilty of Inceſtuous marriages; I have the names of three Independents given me out of one County ☞who have married inceſtuouſly.
4. For proof of this, ſee page 25. of this third Part of Gangr.That our common food, ordinary eating and drinking, is a Sacrament of Chriſts death, and a remembrance of his death till his coming againe.
5. That the Souls of the Saints departed now in Heaven, are on Earth everywhere preſent with their friends, and with all the affairs of this world, ſeeing and knowing them; though in a ſpirituall manner, and not in ſo groſſe a way as when they were living upon earth; for look as the Saints whilſt they were on earth This Doctrine was Preached at a Funerall ſermon in London, & brought to comfort men againſt that trouble of death, They ſhall … and he removed from their friends, and …e ſtrangers to the affairs b…low: This point was … b… way of Anſwer▪ i… upon and amplified: I and divers other Miniſter… were …are witneſſes, and ſpake together of the Sermon when it was done. I have been told it alſo from good hands, …hat an Independent Miniſter of great note, when he was dying … to his wife and friends to have a care how they uſed his body when it was dead, for … ſhould know what they did to him.in their bodies, yet were in Heaven in their Converſations: So now, though they …e in He…, yet they are on Earth with their friends, and know their ſtate and condition.
Doth not this Doctrine open a gap for prayer to the dead? what bred and nouriſhed prayer to Saints departed but this? and is not Animadverſ.this a great ground of it among the Papiſts at this day? if this were true, would it not put men upon praying to Saints whom they familiarly knew and were interreſted in, as their fathers, mothers, &c. A godly and able Miniſter who was at this Sermon, profeſſed to me and another Miniſter diſcourſing of the Sermon, That if he beleeved this Doctrine to be true, he ſhould pray to his Father to remember and pray for him; and the Papiſts generally as Bellarmine and others urge this as an argument for Prayer to Saints becauſe they know our affairs and the condition of things belowe: unto which the Proteſtants generally Anſwer, That the Saints departed know not our wants, nor what is done in the earth: and in Anſwer to that Argument, The Saints on earth pray for one another: Ergo, much more we ſhould deſire the prayers of the Saints departed: Among other Anſwers they ſtill give this, We may requeſt the prayers of one another, becauſe we know our mutuall neceſſities, but the Saints departed know not what things are done here upon earth, neither are every where preſent to hear ou… prayers. The holy Ghoſt tells us, Iſaiah 63▪ 16. that Abraham is ignorant of us, and Iſrael knows us not: Upon which Auguſtine writes thus, If ſo great Patriarck… were ignorant what became of the people which were borne of their loi…es; how is it like that other dead can be preſent to underſtand and be helping to mens affairs▪ So Job ſaith of them who are dead, His ſonnes come to honour and … knoweth it not, and they are brought lowe but be perceiveth it not; Job 14. verſe 21. But for confutation of this Popiſh opinion, I referre the Reader to Willets Synopſis the much generall Controverſie concerning the Saints departed, queſt. 3. to Ameſius his Bellar. E…ervatus Tom. 2… de Invocatione Sa…ctorum, and to learned Rivers Catholicus Orthodoxus Tract. 2. Queſt. 48.
6. The glorified Souls now in Heaven ſee in Chriſt as in a glaſſe the ſtate of the whole Church on Earth, all their joyes to rejoyce with them, and all their griefs and troubles, though not to greive with them.
This is B…nes opinion, an brought by him as a ground Animadverſ.for the Invocation of Saints, became at once they ſee in God as in a glaſſe all things here belowe, and ſo the prayers of the faithfull directed to them. Of the manner how the Saints in Heaven know the prayers of the living, Bellarmine▪ ſets down four opinons of the wayes how; 1 Some ſay they know them by the relation of Angels. 2 Others ſay, the Souls of the Saints by their wonderfull celerity and agility are in a ſort every where and ſo know. 3 Many hold, the Saints ſee at once in God as in aglaſſe all things which concerne them, and ſo the prayers directed to them. I aſtly, others ſay, they know them by ſpeciall revelation from God, when they are prayed, as Eliſha knew Ge…azies corruption, and Samuel knew Sauls eſtate. Now the Third, the beholding in God as in a glaſſe the prayers of the living, Bellarmine adheres to as the moſt probable; ſo that this 6th Error, and Bellarmines agrees fully: but for confutation of this Error, let the Reader read our Proteſtants in Anſwer to Bellarmine upon this queſtion: As Ameſius Bellar. Enervat. Willets Synopſis, with many others.
7 The glorified Souls who are in Heaven, doe now with Chriſt govern and rule the Kingdomes of the Earth and all the affairs here belowe; for proofe of which was brought theſe Texts as I remember, Revelation 3. 21. To him that overcometh will I grant to …it with me in my throne. Rev. 2. 26. And he that overcometh to him will I give power over the nations.
This alſo is a Popiſh Errour brought to ſtrengthen prayer to Saints; for ſeeing it were a vaine thing to pray to them if they had Animad verſ.not power to help, they therefore are urged to confeſſe that the Saints are patrons of men, and have the government of the world committed to them, and Bellarmine with the Rhemiſts bring this Scripture out of the Rev. To him that overcometh will I give power over nations; Ergo, the Saints have the government of men committed to them: But the Anſwer to this Scripture and ſuch like, the Reader may find at large in Willets Synopſis ninth gener. Controverſie, queſt. 3. the third part of the queſtion, whether the Saints departed underſtand our prayers and be alwayes at hand to help us, and thither I refer him.
8 *This Error & the other three laſt mentioned were preached laſt Sept. 17 at a Funeral Sermon, by an Independent of great note, I, & many other Miniſters were …are witneſſes of theſe doctrines.That the Angels dwell in the glorified Souls of the Saints departed.
9. *Proof Webs Pamph. writtē againſt my firſt Part of Gangr. page 6.That Johns Baptiſme which was by water, did end at the coming of Chriſt, and that there is no Baptiſme by water inſtituted by Chriſt.
Animad. This Error is both printed and licenſed, Web profeſſes he ſhould account me as his Father in Chriſt to convince him of the contrary by Scripture, and this Error receives much countenance from Maſter Saltmarſh in his Smoak in the Temple, pag. 16. in ſaying thoſe Scriptures of Matthew 28. 19. Mark 16. 15. Go and teach all Nations Baptizing them, &c. are not underſtood of baptizing with water, but the Spirits baptizing, or the Baptiſme of the holy Ghoſt, and therefore I ſhall animadvert upon it. For the firſt branch of this Error, that Johns Baptiſme which was by water, did end at the coming of Chriſt, and ſo makes Johns Baptiſme of another kind then Chriſts, and divers from it, 'tis a Popiſh Error and confuted by all our Proteſtant Divines in handling of the queſtion of Baptiſme, who hold generally againſt the Papiſts, That Johns Baptiſme was not divers from Chriſts Baptiſme, but was all one with it in property and effect, and that they who were baptized by John, needed not to be baptized again; and for ſatisfaction I referre the Reader to Willets Synopſis twelfth generall controverſie of the Sacrament of Baptiſme, Queſt. 7. where the arguments pro & contra by Papiſts and Proteſtants are ſet down, and to learned *Reſpond…o Baptiſmum Johannis diſcrepaſſe à Baptiſmo Chriſts, qua▪ tenus Christus Baptizat interius baptiſm… spiritus. Et hac in parte diff…rt Baptiſmus Chriſti ab omnibus Minist…orum Sacrorum baptiſmis: nihil autem diſcrepaſſe à baptiſme ceremoniali à Chriſto inſtituto, niſiration… tem…oris, & ſignificationis cl…ritate, qu… ante Chriti manifeſtationem ta…ta non ſuit, quanta poſt cam▪ Non ſ…us, ac Apoſtolorum baptiſmus ante mortem Chriſti diverſ… ſuit à baptiſmo▪ ab ipſis post mortem ejus administrato. pag. 25. 26 27.Rivets Catholicus Orthodoxus Tract. 3. Quaeſt. 2. where againſt the Jeſuite he learnedly maintains the Baptiſme of John to be a Sacrament of the Goſpel, and that Chriſts Baptiſme differs no more from Johns, then it doth from the Baptiſme of other Miniſters, and that Johns Baptiſme differed nothing from Chriſts, but in reſpect of time and clearneſſe of ſignification, which before the manifeſtation of Chriſt was not ſo great as it was after it; and in this reſpect the Baptiſme of the Apoſtles before the death of Chriſt was different from the Baptiſme adminiſtred by them after his death. As for that Web …aith, that Johns Baptiſme which was by water, did end at the coming of Chriſt, 'tis apparently falſe, for Chriſt himſelf a little before his beginning to preach, was baptiſed with Johns Baptiſme, which was by water, Matthew 3. from verſe 13. to 17. and after Chriſt preached and call'd Apoſtles, they baptized with water, and baptized more Diſciples then John; compare John 3. verſe 22, 33. with John 4. verſe 1, 2. and it was a baptizing with water as thoſe words ſhow, J…s and his Diſciples baptized, and John was alſo baptizing in Aenon becauſe there was much water there, ſo that it was ſuch a baptizing as Johns, viz. by water, and the place to do it in choſen, becauſe there was much water. And laſtly, 'tis apparent by the Scripture, that a Baptiſme by water was uſed by the Apoſtles and in the Primitive Apoſtolicall Churches, not only ſince the coming of Chriſt and his preaching in his own perſon, but ſince his going away, ſince his Reſurrection and Aſcenſion, and for that I will name three Scripture, Acts 8. 36. 37, 31, 39. Philip baptizes the Eunuch with water upon beleeving, after Chriſts Aſcenſion. Acts 10. 47, 48. Thoſe Gentiles who were baptized with the holy Ghoſt, verſe 45. on whom was poured out the gift of the holy Ghoſt, theſe men were baptized with water, as thoſe words demonſtratively prove, verſe 47. Can any man forbid water, that theſe ſhould not be baptized, which have received the holy Ghoſt as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized, So that this Scripture takes away that foundation that Chriſts Baptiſme, and the Baptiſme he ſpoke of in Matth. 28. 19. &c. was a being baptized with the gifts of the holy Ghoſt, and not with water; for here we ſee Peter commands thoſe baptized with the gifts of the holy Ghoſt to bee baptized with water, and takes it for granted, ſuch perſons are to be baptized, Can any man forbid water that theſe ſhould not be baptized? 1 Pet. 20. 21. The like figure whereunto, even Baptiſm doth alſo now ſave us, not the putting away of the filth of the fleſh. This Epiſtle was written long after the Aſcenſion, yet even then now Baptiſm ſaves, and it was ſuch a Baptiſm like unto that where in eight ſouls were ſaved by water, ſo that it muſt be a baptiſm by water, and thoſe words clearly prove it not the putting away the filth of the fleſh which is done by water, which ſhows that in the baptiſm under the N. Teſtament ſince Chriſts death, Reſurrection and Aſcention, we muſt look for more then the waſhing of the outward man by water, namely the Anſwer of a good conſcience by the Reſurrection of Jeſus Chriſt; but however more then water, yet water is neceſſarily ſuppoſed.
10. That it is injuſtice in God to puniſh the ſouls of the wicked in Hell while their bodies lie at reſt in their graves, for ſeeing both were ſinners together, both muſt be ſufferers together; if God ſhould puniſh the ſoul of C… in Hell five or ſix thouſand yeers before he puniſheth the body of Cain, he then would ſhow himſelf partiall in his diſtribution of juſtice.
11. That the devils are mortall as well as men are in their bodies.
12. *Proof of the 10. and 11. Errors pag. 36, 37. of this Third Part.That Adams righteouſneſſe in innocency was but fleſh, and oppoſed to the ſpirit.
13. Some of the Manifeſtarians hold that they have ſeene Chriſt viſibly, and ſeen the Devill alſo.* Proof p. 80. of this Third part. Proof of the 13, 14, pag. 80. of this Third part. Proof of the 15. pag. 21. Proof of 16. pag. 80. 45.
14. That 'tis unlawfull to keep dayes of Thankſgiving, to give thanks to God for Victories for one mans killing another.
15. There is no ſuch office as the Miniſtry, its blaſphemy for any one to ſay that he is a Miniſter of Ieſus Chriſt more then any other man; ſuch an office was, but its ceaſed.
16. That there is no need of Univerſities, that Univerſities are of the Devill; that humane learning is fleſh oppoſed to the ſpirit, and that if men be anointed with the ſpirit, and accepted amongſts the Saints, they are ſufficiently qualified.
17. That beleevers ought not to be troubled or grieved for whatſoever ſins or evills they ſaw committed by any, becauſe that God if he would could hinder them, he had power and wiſdom enough to hinder them, and to make things otherwiſe; and therefore if he ſaw not good to hinder them, what ſhould they trouble themſelves about them?
18. That Pigeons in Dove Houſes are common for all men to Vide Proofe of theſe pag. 20. of this Third part.take and eat them, as well as thoſe who are owners of thoſe Dove Houſes, becauſe Pigeons are fowls of the aire, and ſo common to the ſons of men.
19. That 'tis unlawfull to eat things ſtrangled, as fowls whoſe necks are broken and wrung about, and not cut off.
20. That there is no Predeſtination nor Election at all.
21. *Vid. Proof of this pag. 107.That Gods eternall Election is of all men, one as well as another.
22. *For proof ſee a Book entituled Divine Light manifeſting the love of God unto the whole world, with the true Church, printed in the year 1646.That many ſhall be actually ſaved who are not elected; and they who preach none ſhall he ſaved but the elect and predeſtinate, are notable lyars.
23. *Divine Light mani…eſting the love of God, pag. 25.There is a two-fold eternall life and ſalvation, a more glorious ſalvation, ſo as to make them inſtruments of ſalvation unto the whole Creation, and that belongs to the elect and predeſtinate; and a leſſe glorious ſalvation, which belongs to them who are not prede…tinate.
24. That all the Heathen ſhall be ſaved, becauſe they are not guilty of unbelief, never hearing of Chriſt.
25. That God is in our fleſh as much as in Chriſts fleſh, he is as much in the fleſh of the members, as in the Head.
26. That all ſhall be ſaved at laſt, both all men and devils: Chriſt by ſuffering hath merited for the tranſgreſſions of his Creation, Angels and Mankind, and all immortall Spirits, paying the price of our tranſgreſſions, and the tranſgreſſions of all Angels, The maine ſcope of that Pamphlet cald Divine Light manifeſting the love of God unto the whole world, is to plead for a generall ſalvation of all men and devills, and that Chriſt hath paid the Price of his bloud for them all.Spirits, and Mankind, ſealing the pardon of all with his bloud; the reprobate condition of men and Angels ſhall be regained, curſedneſſe ſhall be taken away, death and hell ſhall be deſtroyed, the grave ſhall deliver up the dead, all ſhall be created anew to life and immortality: The damned priſoners ſhall be ſent forth out of the pit wherein there is no water by the power of the Holy Ghoſt, who will maintain and make uſe of the bloud of Chriſt, ſhewing it to be the holy Covenant of generall Redemption.
27. They are the great Antichriſt, and deny the whole Chriſt; God, and their own ſalvation, who deny the Covenant of generall Redemption of all men, devils, and the whole Creation.
28. Chriſt deſcended into hell to break the bands of the damned, preaching peace unto them; and for the proving it theſe Scriptures are wreſted, 1 Pet. 3. 18. Epheſ. 4. 9. 10. Z…ch. 9. 11.
29. The Devils for a time have damned themſelves for not beleeving, nor receiving this truth in obedience to the Goſpel of Generall Redemption, that God hath made all perfect to himſelf in Chriſt, and paid a price for the ſins of all, being by Chriſt juſtly condemned for their unbelief and diſobedience, in not obeying Divine Light, pag. 19.the Goſpel of peace, righteouſneſſe, and love to God and our fellow creatures.
30. The true Chriſtian working faith which the Holy Ghoſt commends ſo much unto all in Scripture, and calls for at the hands of all in caſe of ſalvation receiving it, or damnation in refuſing it, (for the want of which millions of thouſands were damned Divine Light, pag. 11, 12, 13.for a time, though not damned to periſh for ever, for there is none can be damned totally) is to beleeve the Covenant of Generall Redemption, that all ſhall be eternally ſaved, both men and devils, and ſhall ſee, feel, and poſſeſſe the bleſſedneſſe of it to their everlaſting ſalvation and comfort. This is the true Chriſtian working faith that removes the mountains of ſins not only for our ſelves but for others; and that faith which talks much of Chriſt, and preaches that none can be ſaved but by faith, and denyes this work of Generall Redemption, is a formall faith, is a very myſtery of iniquity, and proclaimes openly againſt Gods love and perfection unto his whole Creation in Chriſt.
31. This true faith of beleeving the Covenant of Generall Redemption though it were but in a few, in three perſons onelyonly in the world, yet this faith in theſe perſons ſhould ſave all the reſt of the Creation: Theſe beleevers are that ſeed of bleſſedneſſe unto Divine Light, pag. 11, 13, 14, 23.all the Creation with them, in them, and by them: they are made inſtrumentall meanes of God through Chriſt onelyonly by beleeving and declaring his goodneſſe, and in their ſpirits conteſting with God for his Jehovah mercies towards the rebellious, they are made inſtruments of bleſſing unto the whole Creation, although there ſhould be but three in the earth. This Chriſtian faith is of power to bring all things to life, If there were but three perſons in the whole world that had it in poſſeſſion; it receiveth all things from God in Chriſt, and works through God himſelfe, it is perfect unto all in Chriſt from God: In due time the Lord will bring it unto its full birth, to the breaking up of the gates of hell, and meeting Chriſt in the generall reſurrection ſhall receive life and power to immortalize all things.
32. That Chriſt ſhed his bloud for kine and horſes and all other The proofe of this is in p. 36. of this Third part of Gangraena.creatures, as well as for men; for the proving of which that Scripture is miſerably perverted, Rom. 8. 19, 20, 21, 22.
Animadverſ. Theſe Errors laſt ſet down from the 26. to 32. are not onelyonly (viz. ſome of them) old Errours revived, held formerly by thoſe Hereticks call'd Origeniſtae and Adamantii, who denyed the puniſhments of reprobate men and of devills to be eternall, and that after a time they ſhould all be ſaved, (of which the Reader may ſee more in Auguſtine de Haereſibus, and in Danaeus Commentaries upon him) nor only againſt ſome expreſſe Scriptures, as Jude verſ. 6. 2 Pet. 2. 4. Mat. 25. 41. (which unanſwerably hold out theſe three things; Firſt, that the devills have not all their puniſhment, nor the greateſt part whilſt this world laſts, but howſoever they are now in darkneſſe, and in chains, they are reſerved to have their full doom at the day of judgement: Secondly, that doom and ſentence at the day of judgement both upon devills and ungodly men is eternall and everlaſting: Thirdly, that eternall cannot be taken for a long time, or a time till ſuch a period, but for ever and ever without end; and the laſt appears thus, Firſt, becauſe this ſentence is ſomething more and further then yet they have ſuffered, 'tis ſpoken of as reſerved for it; now the devills have ſuffered a long time, many thouſand years before the day of judgement comes, almoſt ſix thouſand years already, beſides what's to come, and if their doom were but for a long time after, it would be but like that which is paſt, a long time in both: Secondly, at the day of judgement that which is …alled everlaſting, eternall, muſt needs be properly ſo, and not taken for a long time, as ſometimes 'tis ſo taken for long times whilſt this world ſtood, becauſe then the ſtage of this world is pull'd down, and time in which things were meaſured ſhall be no more, no more night nor day, ſummer nor winter, 2 Pet. 3. 7, 10, 11, 12. The heavens and the earth which are now are reſerved unto fire againſt the day of judgement; the heavens ſhall paſſe away, the elements ſhall melt with fervent heat, the earth alſo and the works that are therein ſhall be burnt up, all theſe things ſhall be diſſolved, and whatever hath a being after the day of judgement is eternall and for ever; ſo Revel. 10. 6. there ſhould be time no longer, which ſome interpret, there ſhall be no time, becauſe time ſhall be finiſhed and this variety of dayes and nights, moneths and years, and an unchangeable eternity ſhall follow in the dayes of the ſeventh Angel: but whether that be the meaning or no of the *Vid Pareum in hunc locum Nem… neſcit ut poſt conſummationem ſaeculi fiat temporis abolitio, ſequatur aeternitas.place, this is certain, that after the end of this world and the generall Judgement there will be an abolition of time, and an eternity follow; and therefore eternall fire, and eternall chains, both for devills and ungodly men, cannot be meant of a long time, but ſimply of eternall, à parte poſt. Thirdly, there's the ſame reaſon in every reſpect why eternall for judgement, fire, deſtruction, ſhould be taken in the ſame ſenſe that eternall is when joyned to life, kingdome, &c. but there 'tis taken not for a long-laſting time, but properly for everlaſting, and therefore muſt of neceſſity be ſo here; and whatever colour, gloſſe, or evaſion can be brought to evade that of hell torments, damnation, that they ſhould not be eternall, the ſame will lie as ſtrong againſt the eternall life and kingdome given to the Saints) but they overthrow the whole doctrine of faith, break that golden chain of ſalvation in the eighth of the Romanes in all the links of it, Election, Vocation, Juſtification, Glorification; nay further, theſe Errors as they are laid down, doe not onelyonly croſſe expreſſe Scriptures, and Articles of our Faith, but they deny ſalvation to all men who beleeve not thoſe wicked doctrines, making them the great Antichriſt, formall beleevers, and putting the cauſe of all damnation to devills and men (viz. for ſo long as they are damned) upon the not-beleeving and receiving theſe wicked doctrines, That all devills and men ſhall be ſaved, and that Chriſt paid the price, laying down his bloud for the pardon of all reprobated Men and Angels, and that the beleeving of theſe doctrines is the only true Chriſtian working faith, commended ſo much by the Holy Ghoſt, and of ſuch an efficacy, that this faith being but in two or three in the whole world, ſhall yet ſave all the reſt of the Creation; then which Doctrines and Poſitions nothing can be more repugnant to the Chriſtian faith, and may properly be call'd doctrines of devills.
33. *Divine Light manifeſting the love of God unto the whole world, page 5. Vide Divine Light Manifeſting the love of God.The Trinity of Perſons came downe in Chriſt to ſuffer; Father, Sonne, and Holy Ghoſt ſuffered for their tranſgreſſing creature.
34. There is a private Kingdom of Chriſts juſtice in which he ſat Judge over the quick and dead to condemne and execute torments on the rebellious whom he held as priſoners for a time, and there is Chriſts publick Kingdome, to which the Private Kingdome muſt give place; and as the Father hath given it to Chriſt to rule it for ever, ſo Chriſt hath committed it to the Holy Ghoſt to enliven all things, to bring up all to life and immortality, and the Holy Ghoſt for the Father and the Son ſhall execute the judgement of love and mercies unto all for the deſtroying of death, of hell.
35. *Proof p. 22. of this Third Part.That tis unlawfull to pray unto God kneeling.
36. *Proofe. A godly Miniſter of this City told me he heard an Independent Miniſter maintain this Opinion before company.That Organs are a ſanctified adjunct in the ſervice of God now under the Goſpel, and that if any man in the Church had a gift of making Hymner, he might bring them in to be ſung with Organs or other Inſtruments of muſick.
In ſeverall ages of the Church, wanton men who could not be content with the ſimplicity of the Goſpel, have brought both into Animadverſ.doctrines of Faith and Worſhip ſuch opinions and practiſes ſtill as have been moſt ſuitable to their genius and education, to the principles of ſuch Arts and Sciences in which they were verſed, as Origen and ſome others verſed in Plato's Philoſophy, brought in opinions into the Church according to Plato's doctrine; Some who have been much addicted to Painting and Imagery, they have brought in Images into the Church; and now ſome of our Independents having fancies in Muſick ſinging, taking great delight in that way, they have pleaded for and brought into the Church Hymnes and Muſick.
37. *Proof of this Third Part of his Gangaena page 107.That Adultery is no Sin, and that Drunkeneſſe is none neither, but a help to ſee Chriſt the better by it.
38. *Proof, vide p. 84. of this Third Part.Though conſent of Parents unto Childrens marriage was commanded under the Law, to them that lived then; yet becauſe that was but a ceremony, tis now lawfull to marry without their conſent, becauſe we live under the Goſpel.
39. aProof p. 36. of this Third part.Chriſts death and ſufferings were endured for to be our example, not to purchaſe heaven for us.
40. bI have been told from good hands, of ſeverall Anabaptiſts brought before the Magiſtrate who have refuſed to take an oath, and of others who would ſpeak the truth as in the preſence of Chriſt, but not ſweare.That 'tis not lawfull for Chriſtians to take an oath, no not when they are called before Authority, and brought into Courts.
41. cProof p. 147. of this Third part of Gangraena.That Chriſt would deſtroy not only unlawfull Government, but lawfull Government, not only the abuſe of it, but the uſe of it; he was deſtroying both Monarchy and Ariſtocracy.
42. dProof, Pamphlet entituled Certain Queres 1645. by Thomas C…lyer, and in Third part of Gang. p. 28.That the Saints, beſides the ſpirituall Kingdome and Government of the Church of Chriſt, muſt have an externall Kingdom to poſſeſſe; that this is the time that the Kingdome, viz. England, Scotland, and Ireland, is to be taken from him who ſhall ariſe and ſubdue three Kingdoms, thinking to change times and Lawes, and ſhall be given to the Saints.
43. eVid. Pamph. entit. An alarum to the H. of Lords. p. 1.Gracious Lords, or Favourable Lords, are titles that cannot be proper amongſt Chriſtians, but are marks of Gentiles.
44. fProof pamphlet Overtons defiance to the H. of Lords, p. 6'Tis an utter disfranchiſement of the people, and a meer vaſſalage, for a man to Petition to Courts of Judicature, as the Houſe of Peers, for his right, and to have juſtice done him: 'tis no better then a branch of tyranny to force a man to turn Supplicant for his own, and of ſelf-robbery to ſubmit thereto: 'Tis an inſlaved and intolerable condition of this Nation, that indeed they cannot have their own naturall Rights and Immunities but they muſt be actuall Petitioners, as if their own were not their own of right, but of favour.
45. That for Crimes and Offences committed in a Common-wealth there ſhould not be certain penalties appointed by Lawes, Proof, vide pag 111, 112, of this Third part of Gangraena.to which the Governours and Magiſtrates ſhould be tyed, but it ſhould be leſt to the diſcretion and wiſdome of the Magiſtrates to inflict what they thought fit in caſe of ſuch and ſuch Crimes; and this liberty ſhould be left, that a Magiſtrate might exerciſe his gifts of Government, which if he were kept ſtrictly to the Law, how ſhould his wiſdom and gifts be manifeſted?
46. That Proteſtant States and Parliaments have no power nor liberty to confirm and enact by Law Worſhip and Church-Government, Proof, vide Maſter Burtons Conformities deformity, the whole ſcope of the Book being to maintain this, among other pages vide pag. 7, 8, 13, 14, 15. and for Animadverſions on this the Reader ſhall find in the latter part of this Book.compoſed by Proteſtant Synods who have an eye to the Scripture in what they doe, but the aſſuming of ſuch a power, ſo as to enact a Law to bind all to conformity, 'tis a falling under that in Eſay, Their fear towards God was taught by the precept of men; 'tis with Nebuchadnezzar to erect his golden Image, with Jeroboam and his Councell to ſet up the golden Calves; 'tis a rejecting of Chriſt from being King, an utter overthrowing of the Kingly Prerogative and Office of Chriſt, and a deſtroying a foundation of faith.
47. That all Power, Places, and Offices that are juſt in this Kingdom, ought only to ariſe from the choiſe and election of the people, and that all the power & right any man hath in governing and ruling over thoſe he rules, ſtands wholy in the choice and election of thoſe that are ruled; and that men need not, ought not to yeeld obedience and ſubjection to the Commands, Summons, Lawes, &c. of any but of thoſe they have choſen and who are their Repreſenters; and to ſubmit, yeeld obedience to any others whom they have not choſen, is inconſiſtent with the nature of juſt freedoms, and to exerciſe any power not derived from choice, is no leſſe then uſurpation and oppreſſion.
48. That all the Legall, Supreame, Soveraigne, Regall, Legiſlative power of this Kingdom is in the Houſe of Commons, the choſen Commons of England, and in no other whatſoever: there's no other the Svpreame Court of Judicature of this Land but the Houſe of Commons: That all Majeſty and Kingſhip inherently reſiding in the people or ſtate univerſall the repreſentation or derivation of it is formally and legally in the ſtate Repreſentative or elect, and in none elſe: The Supreame power only of right belonging to the Houſe of Commons, they only being choſen by the people.
49. That the ſtate univerſall, the body of the common people is the Earthly Soveraign, Lord, King and Creator of the King, Parliaments, all Officers and Miniſters of Juſtice: Underived Majeſty and Kingſhip inherently reſides in the ſtate univerſal; and the King Parliaments, &c. are their own meer creatures to be accountable to them, and diſpoſed of by them at their pleaſure; the people may recall and re-aſſume their power, queſtion them, and ſet others in their place.
50. That whatever the Fundamentall Conſtitutions of Kingdomes and Common wealths have been by forefathers, whatever agreements, compacts have been of ſubjection and obedience of ſuch a people for themſelves and poſterities to one, as under Kingly government, or to more, yet the men of the preſent age following many hundred years after, ought to be abſolutely free from what their forefathers yeelded unto, and freed from all kinds of exorbitancies, moleſtations, without exception or limitation, either in reſpect of perſons, officers, degrees, or things, and eſtated in their naturall and juſt Liberties agreeable to right reaſon.
51. That the Houſe of Commons cannot have any power, nor exerciſe any power juſtly, but what the people who choſe them Pamphlet entituled, A Remonſtrance of many thouſand Citizens and other Freeborn people of Engl. to their own Houſe of Commons, p. 12, 13.conferred upon them, and the common people having given them no power to eſtabliſh Religion (as having no ſuch power in themſelves, and therefore could not conferre that which they had not) therefore the Houſe of Commons cannot aſſume a power to controule Religion or a way of Church Government upon the people; and although the Kings Writ for chuſing Knights and Burgeſſes implies the eſtabliſhment of Religion, yet all implications in the Writs of the Eſtabliſhment of Religion ſhoweth that in that particular, as many other, we remain under the Norman yoak of an unlawfull power from which we ought to free ourſelves; and the Houſe of Commons ought not to maintain upon us, but to abrogate.
52. That ſeeing all men are by nature the Sons of Adam, and from him have legitimatly derived a naturall propriety, right, and freedom, Therefore England and all other Nations, and all particular perſons in every Nation, notwithſtanding the difference of Lawes and Governments, rancks, and degrees, ought to be alike free and eſtated in their naturall Liberties, and to enjoy the juſt Rights and Prerogative of mankind, whereunto they are Heirs apparent; and thus the Commoners by right, are equall with the Lords. For by naturall birth all men are equally and alike born to like propriety, liberty, and freedom; and as we are delivered of God by the hand of nature into this world, every one with a naturall innate freedom, and propriety, even ſo are we to live, every one equally and alike to enjoy his birth-right and priviledge.
53. That the body of the people may do all that lawfully of themſelves, which their Deputies, Truſtees, Repreſentors, choſen ones do for them, only for greater conveniency they Depute them, and they may go no further in any thing, nor ſit no longer, nor diſpoſe of any thing but according to their Commiſſion and power received from the Repreſented.
I might here alſo annex to theſe Errours many ſtrange and falſe Expoſitions of Scripture given by Sectaries in their Sermons, and Diſcourſes; but I will only give two or three: 1 That of *Many Miniſters, M. Spurſtowe, M. Cardel, M. Wills, my ſelf with others heard this Expoſition given in the preſence of a thouſand people at leaſt.Matthew 28. v. 18. Allpower is given to me in heaven and in earth: By heaven there, is meant the uncreated heaven; there are the created heavens, and the uncreated heaven; here is meant the uncreated heaven, the God-head; ſo that the meaning of theſe words is, all the uncreated power of the God-head is given to Jeſus Chriſt. 2 That of Geneſis the ninth, And ſurely your bloud of your lives will I require: at the hand of every beaſt will I require it. That by *For proof Vide pag. 23. 24. of this Third Part of Gangraena. Animadverſ.Beaſt there was meant a wicked man. 3 That of Luke 24. To day ſhalt thou be with me in paradiſe; that to day was to be referred to Chriſts ſaying ſo, & not to the time when he ſhould be in Paradiſe, of which the Reader may find more in ſome following pages, 100. 101.
In my Firſt and Second Parts of Gangraena, page 28. 29. of the Firſt Part, Third Edition, and in page 1. and 117. of the Second Part, Second Edition, I have laid down ſome Tenets of the Sectaries deſtructive to Civill Government and humane Society; but now in this Third Part among theſe Errors mentioned, I have diſcovered much more of their Anarchicall and Antimagiſtraticall ſpirit, many of theſe laſt Errors plainly ſhowing they are enemies to all Government, Order, and Diſtinction, and would bring all into a popular confuſion, and reduce all Common-wealths and Kingdoms ☞into ſuch a condtion as they were before they had Laws, Cuſtomes of Nations, Rulers over them; and that as often as the weak judgements and humours of the giddy in conſtant multitude pleaſed, and this ſpirit of Anarchy fully ſhowes it ſelf in many whole Books written on purpoſe, ſome Sermons, many Speeches, and in many late practiſes of the Sectaries. I have forborne quoting in the margine one or more particular Bookes with the Pages juſt againſt the Errours for proof, as I have done in other Errors, becauſe not only one Book but many, not only one page but divers pages prove theſe Errors, the whole ſcope of many books and pamphlets being to maintain theſe eight or nine Poſitions laſt ment…oned, and for the Readers ſatisfaction, I referre him to theſe Pamphlets hereafter named, An Alarum to the Houſe of Lords againſt their inſolent uſurpation of the Commons Liberties. A Remonſtrance of many thouſand Citizens, and other free-borne People of England, to their own Houſe of Commons. A Defiance againſt all Arbitrary uſurpations and encroachments, either of the Houſe of Lords or any other. The juſt mans juſtification. A Pearle in a dunghill, or Leiutenant Colonell Lilburne in Newgate. An Arrow againſt all Tyrants and Tyranny. The free mans Freedom vindicated. The juſt man in Bonds, or Leiutenant Colonell Lilburne in Newgate. Arguments proving we ought not to part with the Militia to any other but to the Honourable Houſe of Commons. A Petition and Appeale of Overton to the High and Mighty States, the Knights and Burgeſſes in Parliament aſſembled. A Petition of Leiutenant Colonell Lilburns wife to the choſen and betruſted Knights. The Copy of a Letter ſent by Leituenant Col. Lilburne to Master Wollaſton keeper of Newgate: Queries to find out who tis that holds out againſt the ſtate of England. The laſt warning to all the inhabitants of London. In which and divers others he ſhall read Principles ſo deſtructive to all Government whatſoever, Democraticall, as well as Monarchicall and Ariſto…taticall, that the like are not to be found in the writings of the old Anabaptiſts, neither ever did the old Anabaptiſts when they were in the power of Princes and States, and brought before their ☜bars, ever carry themſelves with that ſcorn and height of contempt towards them, as Lilburne, Overton, and other Sectaries have done to that High and Supreame Court of Judicature the Houſe of Peers.
And certainly if theſe Aſſertions and Poſitions about Magiſtracy and Civill Government were true and neceſſary, then all the Acts, Lawes, Proceedings, Proceſſes of former Parliaments, and of this preſent Parliament, with the proceedings of all kind of Magiſtrates and Inferiour Courts are uncertain, queſtionable, yea, unlawfull, void and Null; all who have ſuffered by Sentences of Courts of Juſtice, have ſuffered unjuſtly; all who poſſeſſe any thing, as Lands, Houſes, Debts, by judgements of Courts, have no Title to them; all men who exerciſe any power of Rule and Government over others, are uſurper…, intruders; and they may ſay, I never choſe the men that made theſe Lawes upon which I was proceeded againſt and ſuch verdicts given, I never gave my conſent that ſuch men ſhould be Judges, Juſtices of Peace, Sheriffs, Juries, or that ſuch Courts ſhould be erected; yea theſe principles do bring in to this Kingdom and all other Nations, all kind of confuſion and Anarchy, overthrow all ancient bounds, rancks, orders, differences of perſons and things, as rich and poor, Magiſtrats and people, ſervants and maſters, bound and free, and reduce all things back to unſetlement, uncertainties, perplexities, and that as often as mens humours pleaſe, and indeed keep all things from a poſſibility of being otherwiſe; and all rationall wiſe men who underſtand the nature of Government and Common-wealths muſt needs confeſſe as much; and that I may even to weak men deceived with ſpecious pretences diſcover the weakneſſe and folly of divers of the later Poſitions, I commend theſe following particulars to the Readers ſerious conſideration.
1. Theſe men who deny to the Peers of this Kingdom the Title of Lords, and ſay, 'Tis not proper to Chriſtians, but a mark of the Gentiles; yet they give to the Commons greater Titles, as *Vid. Overtons petition to the High and Mighty States the Knights & Burgeſſes in Parliament. Aſſembled.High and Mighty (the Titles of Emperours and Monarchies) and to the common people, Majeſty, Kingſhip, Soveraigne Lord, yea, give Gods Title, calling the people Creators; and Kings, Lords, their meer creatures.
2. Inſtead of Legall Rights and the Lawes and Cuſtomes of this Nation, the Sectaries talk of, and plead for naturall Rights and Liberties, ſuch as men have from Adam by birth, and in many of their Pamphlets they ſtill ſpeak of being governed by Right reaſon, ſo that look now as they do in matters of Religion and Conſcience ☞they fly from the Scriptures and from ſupernaturall truths revealed there, that a man may not be queſtioned for going againſt them, but only for Errors againſt the light of nature and right reaſon; So they do alſo in Civill Government and things of this life, they go from the Lawes and Conſtitutions of Kingdoms, and will be governed by rules according to nature and right reaſon; and though the Lawes and Cuſtomes of a Kingdom be never ſo plain and cleer againſt their wayes, yet they will not ſubmit, but cry out for naturall Rights derived from Adam and right reaſon.
3. According to all principles of Juſtice and Right reaſon, who is fitteſt to judge in ſuch and ſuch caſes what is according to right reaſon, whether every Delinquent and ignorant Mechanick cald in queſtion (for if that may be allowed, farewell all juſtice, none ſhall be puniſhed, nor innocent righted) or the Rulers, Judges, and ſetled Authority of a Land? Is it not rationally to be ſuppoſed that thoſe Anceſtors who founded a Government for ſuch a Nation, and thoſe who have followed in a Succeſſion having yeelded to and ſetled ſuch Lawes, could better judge of right reaſon, what was for the good of ſuch a Nation, and accordingly made Lawes then every mean man who knows no reaſon of Lawes and States nor is capable of Government, and the true nature of it, neither conceives the Government of Nations in reference to other Nations, nor in reference to the body of the people; but Ship, paſſengers and all might be ſplit upon many rocks if ſuch unskilful Pilots had the ſteering.
4. Tis certain all Nations and people, though all came from Adam, have not the ſame Lawes, Cuſtomes, Conſtitutions of Government, and ſo are not, nor cannot be alike …ree: There is a liberty left in Commonwealths to frame and mould them as ſhall be judged moſt convenient, and all are not tied to one Rule; this the Independents grant when they deny it in the Government of the Church; and ſeeing men are borne and live in different Climates, Countries, and are of ſeverall Manners, Diſpoſitions, Conſtitutions, Educations; the ſame Lawes, Cuſtomes, kind of Government, would not be for the good of all, but what would fit one and be uſefull, would not ſerve another: ſome are of a more ſervile Diſpoſition, ſome of a harſher ſtubborner nature, ſome of a gentler freer nature; ſome people are ſituated in Iſlands, ſome upon the Continent, ſome have ſuch neighbours of ſuch a temper, others have not; ſome Countries wholly ſubſiſts on ſuch commodities, others ſubſiſt in another way; and ſo many ſuch differences might be given; now, whether Cuſtomes and Laws neceſſary for ſuch a people, founded on the proper reaſon and nature of ſuch a place and people, be proper for all, I leave to wiſe men to judge.
M. Peters that great Sectarian ſtateſman in his *Laſt Reports of the Engliſh Wars, p. T.Polit. tels us The ſame Laſt will not fit an Engliſh and a Scottiſh foot: The Engliſh muſt be ruled more by love. Now if two nations ſo neer in one Iland are not alike free, but muſt be differently governed, then certainly Nations remote from one another, are not alike free. Beſides, to particular perſons, yea bodies of people, many providences & accidents may fal out to make one and the ſame people and particular perſons not ſo free as ſometimes they have been; there are ſome Parents who were free, but having incurred the Law, are tainted in bloud & ſo their children alſo, ſome are taken captivs or have ſold themſelves for a neceſſity, and ſo their children are ſervants to, A nation having bin ſaved by ſome Prince from ruine (though before a free ſtate) may now make him and his Heirs according to ſuch Lawes, King over them; nay Ameſius in his Caſes of Conſcience ſaith, Ameſ. lib. 5. de Conſcient. c. 25. De mutua obligatione inter Magiſtratus, et ſubditos.It cannot be denied but that a people forced by neceſſity may ſell themſelves to a King to be all his ſervants, Gen. 47. 23.
5. Tis apparent that in one and the ſame Nation, as England, all the ſubjects have not the ſame priviledges and freedoms, but ſome have more then others, ſome are not liable to be preſſed to war, to bare ſuch Offices, ſerve in Juries, &c. as others are; ſome have voices, viz. Freeholders, to chuſe Knights of Shires, others have not; ſome Cities, Towns, have Charters and large priviledges in ſeverall particulars, to ſend Burgeſſes to Parliament, which other Towns have not; and certainly the Peerage of England have priviledges and liberties, which every Jack-ſtraw hath not.
6. I demand of the Sectaries whether in their Pamphlets ſpeaking of election and conſent, they meane an immediate preſent choyce and conſent of the preſent men now to be governed, or elſe an election conſent in the firſt conſtitution of this Kingdom and Government by our Anceſtors many hundred yeers ago? Now if they mean this laſt, how do they know but that this Government wherein the King and Lords have ſuch a power, was by conſent and agreement, it being conſented ſuch a man ſhould be King, and ſuch perſons Nobles, who by birth ſhould have ſuch power, and then ſuch people according to ſuch agreements ſhould have power to chuſe ſome men, who together with King and Nobles ſhould make Laws, by which the Nation governed, & the King ſhould have ſuch power, Nobles ſuch priviledges, and people ſuch liberties; but now if they meane the firſt, an immediate election of the preſent peopl, that they are to obey none but ſo choſen, 'tis moſt falſe, and a principle deſtructive to the ſundamentall government of this Kingdom, and deſtroying the Houſe of Commons as well as the King and Lords; and for the clearing of that, I would propound two things, 1. That in this Common-wealth of England none have any power of Government at all either in a lower or higher Sphere, either by election of the whole body of the people (for all chuſe not, but ſome onelyonly) or founded upon election as the ſole cauſe and ground; for none of the people can chuſe, neither are men capable to be choſen, till according to Lawes, Writs are granted forth or Charters given by Princes and Lawes to ſuch Corporations, and yet then the peopl muſt go in chuſing, not according to their wills, but to ſuch rules agreed on by Laws, and after men are choſen, ſome conditions alſo and rules muſt be obſerved, before the perſons ſo choſen have power of government; theſe choſen Commons muſt be returned, and ſworne, take ſuch oaths before they can …it, or if they do, their election is ipſo fact… nul, and they made uncapable ever to fit again; ſo that tis evident that election of ſome part of the people (not the whole) is only a partiall cauſe, not the totall and plenary cauſe, or rather the true cauſe is becauſe ſuch a man, according to Lawes and Cuſtomes of this Kingdome is now in ſuch a place, whereof one of the conditions for ſuch a place is election ſo and ſo determined by former Lawes; but now in many Officers of this Kingdome who have power of government to heare, judge, and do many Acts, no ſort of the common people have any power at all to chuſe, as in Juſtices of Peace; they have been alwayes, and ſtill are made without any ſuch election; ſo the Judges of the Land, Sheriffs, with divers other Officers; and therefore much more may the King and Peers who by the fundamentall Lawes of the Land, have an hered…tary power in Parliament, to which the Kingdom hath agreed and yeelded obedience ſo many hundred yeers, exerciſe their power without any electon of the people. 2. That certainly people are bound and tied to Lawes, Rules, as well as Kings and Nobles, and that Covenants, Compacts, Oaths of Allegiance, &c. made on their part, bind them as well as Princes oaths: I ever took it for granted that Princes had not been bound, and their people left at liberty and freedome to do what they pleaſed: I alwayes thought fundamentall conſtitutions of Government made many hundred yeers before, and ancient bounds ſet by Lawes, with birth-right inheritance, having gone through an uninterrupted ſucceſſion of many P…ogenitors had been a right and intereſt to Princes, which the meer will and pleaſure of common people could not have taken from them, and I conceive that according to the conſſitution and Lawes of this Kingdome (which gives all ſorts their rights though ſome more ſome leſſe) 'tis agreed on that the Peers of this Land ſhould have a Legiſlative and judiciall power, and they and their heirs be in ſuch ranck, born with ſuch and ſuch priviledges over others.
7. This Poſition of the Sectaries the Univerſal people having ſuch a power without whoſe election all Government is void, their Dagon and great Image which they fall down before and worſhip, is a meer Chim…ra, a monſtrum horrendum, a Babell, which I could ſhatter and break ſo to peeces as not one ſtone ſhould be left of it, nor ſo much as the ſtump, but I may not now give all my thoughts for feare of being too voluminous; only I will hint a few things in this place by way of Queſtion, and referre the Reader to what I further ſay in page 154, 155. &c.
1. I Deſire to know of theſe Sectaries, what, or who is this ſtate Univerſall; whether all the men, women, and children born in England, men-ſervants, maid-ſervants, poore people and beggars, together with thoſe of the better ſort; and whether if all theſe, or the greater part of theſe taken one equally as well as th'other, be the ſtate univerſall, have they the like Soveraigne power over the King and Parliament.
2. Whether in what this ſtate Uuniverſall will do with the King, Lords, and their owne Houſe of Commons; it muſt be carried by the moſt voices of this ſtate univerſall, ſo that if all the beggars, poor people, ſervants, children, be a greater number then the rich, wiſe, &c. it muſt be as they will have things in the Common-wealth; and if ſo, let it be conſidered what may and will be the conſequence of that, whether not a community, yea a making the rich poor, and the poor rich, ſervants maſters, and maſters ſervants, and if it muſt not be ſo, then how is it the ſtate Univerſall?
3. What if this Univerſall people do not, or cannot agree among themſelves about the government and governors, but ſome are for one way, ſome for another, ſome for ſuch men, others for other men; and one ſort ſay they are the moſt, and the other ſay they are the moſt; who ſhall have power to judge between them and determine the differences?
4. If Power of Government be founded on the conſent of perſons to be governed, what if as great a part of the univerſall people within a few, and may be more conſiderable, chuſe another man or men then the other greater part choſe, muſt they ſubject to them whom they like not, conſent not to, or may not they ſet up thoſe they chuſe for the governing of them; and ſuppoſe twenty ſuch great parties chuſe all different men, may not each ſet up and obey only their onwe choſen ones according to this doctrine?
5. How, where, and in what manner ſhall all the Univerſall people meet, men, women, ſervants, children, poor, rich, beggars to declare their minds what they would have, and how things ſhould be carried; and whether ever did they, or can they meet to make known their minds, and who ſhall be betruſted to take their minds and report it?
6. Whether are not the Sectaries the Uuiverſall ſtate of England, that pretend to have this power over King, Lords, Commons▪ and whether do they not mean themſelves by it in all their Pamphlets, and how do they know many things which they confidently aſſert of the people in their Pamphlets, to be the judgement and intent of any other, but of their own Sectarian party?
7. I deſire to know how many of the perſons who have writ all theſe late Pamphlets againſt the King, Houſe of Lords, and of the peoples power over the Houſe of Commons to call them to an account, and that they may do nothing but what they give them power to do, and they may diſplace them at pleaſure as being choſen by them, &c. had any voice…, or power by the Lawes and Cuſtomes of this Kingdome to chuſe…any Members for the Houſe of Commons. Let Lilburne, O…, Larner, and the reſt of that rable who talk ſo much of the Houſe of Commons being their choſen ones, and that a man ought to obey none but whom he chuſes with ſuch like, name any Knight or Burgeſſe whom they choſe, or were capable to chuſe; for I beleeve they were of ſo mean eſtate that they had not ſo much free-land per annum required by the Statute for them who have voices Electio… of Knights of the …ire; and as for chuſing▪ Bu…geſſes in London where they lived, they were no Livery men of any of thoſe Companies who have voices in Election; ſo that for ought I know, when the Houſe of Commons ſhall queſtion them for their ſedicious Anarchicall Pamphlets▪ a… the Lords have moſt juſtly done (and by theſe and many other Acts have end…ered the hearts of thouſand to them) they may anſwer the Cōmons as they have done the Lords, and tell them they never choſe any of them, nor gave them any power; they were choſen not by the State Univerſall, all the free-men of England, but by a few free-holders, and ſome ric… Citizens and tradeſmen, and therefore let them rule over them if they will, and let thoſe who choſe them be ſubject; but unleſſe they will be content to … down and be choſen by the Univerſall people, they will not betray their liberty to anſwer any queſtions, ſubmit to their Authority, but appeale from the… to the Univerſall people, or to the Depu… and Truſtees which ſhall be made by this Univerſall people▪ and that they are likely to do it, may be judged by Lilburns carriage to the Committee of Examinations, the Houſe of Comm… it ſelf, and by the many Pamphlets in the ye…re 1645▪ ſet out againſt the Houſe of Commons; and that they may ſay ſo upon as good grounds, yea by the very ſame upon which they went in oppoſing the Houſe of Lords, I will undertake to make good, and of it the Reader may find more about page 155, 156.
8. If all power be founded thus upon Election of the perſons to be governed, and the Commons have all their power thus from Election and from nothing elſe, whether may any be put by from ſitting in the Houſe who are choſen by moſt voices of thoſe Townes and Counties who ſend them, and others choſen by fewer voices by farre ſit in their roomes in the Commons Houſe, and whether upon Articles clapt in before proved, or complaints by the friends of thoſe who have fewer voices, may the Committee of Elections or the Houſe it ſelf put by one choſen by moſt voices and admit the other, and according to this doctrine of the people Univerſall repreſented being the Lords and Maſters of the Commons, and the Commons their Deputies and ſervants, how can they contradict their Lords the people to turn back whom they ſend, and put in others?
9. Whether may not according to the Doctrines laid down in the late Pamphlets, the Counties add Burgeſſe Towns who have no Knights or Burgeſſes there to repreſent them, nor have not had of a long time, and can yet get no Writs to chuſe for themſelves, anſwer the Houſe of Commons when ſent for, as Lilburne and Overton did the Houſe of Lords, We are not bound to obey any of your Orders, as having none there that repreſent us or whoſe Election we have conſented to?
10. Whether according to theſe Doctrines of the Sectaries, may not ſuch Cities, Townes, Counties, chuſe men without Writs and ſend them up to Parliament demanding to ſit there, eſpecially after alleadging Petitions and motions made for Writs to chuſe and none granted; and whether in ſuch caſes whilſt Towns are without any Parliament men for them, may they not refuſe to obey any Ordinances made by thoſe whom they never choſe nor know not, yea may they not according to this doctrin ſay that all Ordinances whatſoever made before the time their Repreſentors came in they will give no obedience to?
11. If all power be founded thus wholly upon the Election of the people to be governed, and that all Governors are their meer Deputies, ſervants, may do nothing but what they give them a power to do and by Commiſſion from them, whether may the Houſe of Commons exerciſe that power the Lawes give them, and go according to the Priviledges and Cuſtomes of that Houſe, though the people Repreſented never gave them any ſuch things in Commiſſion, nor do not know nor underſtand them? or muſt they keep only to what is the known mind of thoſe Countries and Towns that choſe them?
12. If all power in Government be founded on immediate Election of the People, and no ſort of men have power further then the Univerſall people gave them, and becauſe they are Repreſentors, Truſtees, Deputies, &c. may do nothing againſt the will and mind of the Major part of the Univerſall people who choſe them, whether have all the Parliament-men in all their Votes gone according to the minds and deſires of thoſe Cities and places that choſe them Repreſented in Petitions, and whether in caſes of doubt and yet of great importance, have they ſtill called their Countries together to know their minds and whether they were willing ſuch things ſhould be, viz. Anabaptiſts, Browniſts, and all kind of Sectaries to enjoy ſuch freedom of meettings, all ſorts of ignorant Mechanicks to be ſuffered to turn preachers, and to go up and down ſeducing people, whether ſo great an Army to be ſtill continued in this Kingdom, and they Aſſeſſed to pay ſuch Taxes for their maintenance, and whether Committees ſhall be ſtill continued in the Kingdom; whether great ſums of mony and hundreds of pounds in Land per annum in ſuch neceſſitous times ſhall be given away on men who little need it, and ſo in other particulars? and if things appear to be againſt the mind of the generalitie of the people, whether are the people bound to obey their Orders and Ordinances in ſuch caſes?
13. If all power of government be upon Election, and the choſen ought to go according to the will of the univerſality of the people, ſuppoſe it ſhould ſo happen in a Common-wealth that the greater part of the choſen ſhould apparently go contrary to the truſt repoſed in them, carry things quite againſt the mind of the people, as of the chief City, Country, Miniſtry, and none ſhould be pleaſed with their actions but a pure faction, a party of men ingaged by offices, places of preferment, liberty of licentiouſneſſe of living againſt the true Religion by Lawes eſtabliſhed, whether then with a good conſcience may and ought this univerſall people with the conſent and aſſiſtance of ſuch Governors choſen by them who are known to be faithfull, demand to chuſe others in their places, require juſtice upon them, and ſo deliver themſelves and their Country?
14. Whether or no according to theſe Doctrines of the Sectaries there be any in this Kingdome have any power of government or whom the people ought to obey, ſeeing there is none among us choſen by the univerſall people, no not the Commons in Parliament, but only by a part of the people the Freeholders and free-men of Towns, which are not the twentieth part of the people of this Kingdom, who yet ſure are ſubject to Lawes, and ſhould live under obedience?
15. Seeing in all kind of lawfull power and ſuperiority every man that obeyes any ſhould chuſe him (as the Sectaries ſpeak in their Pamphlets) and the power of Colonels, Captains, Commanders in cheif of ſuch a party over Souldiers is lawfull, whether may ſuch whole Companies and particular ſouldiers in ſuch Companies who have Commanders ſet over them whom they choſe not, but were unwilling of, and deſirous of others (only 'tis the will of the Generall to have it ſo) anſwer them when they command them, we choſe you not, we will not obey your commands, and whether this would be a good anſwer of the Presbyterian Companies that have Independent Commanders ſet over them, and well taken at a Councell of Warre? And whether Colonel Lilburne in the Army would have taken ſuch an Anſwer well from his Regiment, notwithſtanding his brothers doctrine? And whether if gallant Colonel Whaley before Worceſter ſhould have ſtood upon this Doctrine that thoſe ſhould command in cheif who had the conſent of the ſouldiery there and the people of thoſe parts, and thereupon oppoſed Colonel Rainborough, it had been true Doctrine?
16. Whether do not the Sectaries …ro…e themſelves in their poſitions about Election, that no men have any power over any to queſtion and judge … who choſe them not, and whom they repreſent not? when … they ſay the Houſe of Commons may queſtion and puniſh … and judge the Houſe of Peer, being the Soveraign… S… … both of the C…on…rs and of the Lords: Now certainly neither the King nor the Houſe of Peers choſe the Houſe of Commons, neither are they the Repreſentors of the King and Peers, they repreſent them not ſo much as in name, having never the Titles of Kings or Lords given them by Lawes, and therefore if according to the Sectaries Doctrines the Houſe of Commons have power over King and Lords to judge them (which for my part I do not beleeve) though they are not their choſen ones, then certainly the Houſe of Lords may have power to ſentence Lilburne, Overton, &c. though not choſen by them.
17. If all power of Government ſtand ſolely upon the Election of the preſent people, and hath all its authority upon that, whether the power of Governors can continue longer then the people choſe them for, and ſuppoſe the people never intending or once dreaming to chuſe them for alwayes, but for a time, whether when that time they were choſen for expired, their power did not alſo expire? and whether may any with a good conſcience, who beleeves the time is long ago run out for which he choſe Burgeſſes and Knights, ſubmit any more to the Summons, Orders, Cenſures A Remonſtr. to the Houſe of Commons. page 19, 20.of the Commons then the Sectaries wil to the H. of Peers? and whether can the H. of Commons expect any ſubmiſſion and obedience from the Sectaries, who have in the name of thouſands declared profeſſedly to the world their time was out for which they were choſen, by ſuch a day, which day is paſt, and therefore they will find when they come to queſtion ſome of them roundly upon any of their Ordinances, that they will ſerve them as they do the Lords, telling them they have no power over them, the time for which they choſe them is out?
18. Whether according to this Doctrine of all ſubjection and power founded only in Repreſentation, Deputation, extending no further then from the Repreſented to the Repreſentors, may not the Miniſtery of the Kingdome plead exemption from the power of the Commons as the Sectaries do from the Lords, ſaying they have no Miniſters there to ſit in that Houſe to repreſent them, or who have Deputation from them; there may poſſibly be ſome Imitators of them in the Houſe of Commons, Lay Preachers and gifted Brethren imitating them in their work of Miniſtry, as Apes uſe to imitate men in the works of their calling, but no Repreſentors of them.
19. If nothing the repreſentative do be valid or binding, but what the greater number of the Univerſal have given power in, whether may not & will not the people queſtion all Votes, Orders, Ordinances, as not being tied to them becauſe they know not that the Univerſall people conſented, and ſo every thing when it ſhould be obeyed, may be queſtioned upon that ground, and nothing in Government ſhould be certain, but a man may ſay this Law, this Order is null, void; for how doth it appeare the Univerſall repreſented people gave conſent, or the Repreſentative acted in it from the inſtructions of the Univerſall?
20. If this Doctrine were true, that Magiſtrates might do nothing but what the greater part of the generality of a Land would have, whether many good things would ever have been done that now are, and whether in many Kingdoms would ever a Reformation have been effected, and whether if the Parliament had gone by the Pole of tagge and ragge, would ever Common-Prayer-book, Biſhops, with many other things have been put down, which yet I hope the Sectaries dare not ſay but the Houſe of Commons did well in ſo doing?
A Catalogue of ſome Blaſphemies of the Sectaries, not mentioned in the Firſt, nor Second Parts of Gangraena.
*Proof Vide page 35. of this Third part of Gangr.A Sectarie ſaid, That the Prophets in the Old Teſtament Prophecied two and fifty lyes; That in the ninth chapter of the Romans Saint Paul lyed, and ſaid he did acknowledge him ſelf to be ſo, to gain ſome to Chriſt. The ſame Sectarie being ſtowed a place of Scripture, which were the words of Chriſt, took the book and threw it away, and ſaid that was not ordered by the Holy Ghoſt to be penned, but it was the Rogue Printer that did put it in.
*For proof Vide M Bellam…es juſtification of the City Remonſtrance, p. 11.Another Sectary ſaid there is no God, or if there be a God, the Devill is a God.
*Proof, p. 114. of this Th…rd Part of Gangr.Maſter Saltmarſh the Sectary, preached at Bath, that as John Baptiſt wore a Leathern Girdle, ſo the Doctrin that he preached was Leathern Doctrine.
*Proof, p. 107 of this Third part of Gangr.A Sectarian Souldier at Briſtoll finding fault with ſomething a godly Miniſter had preached of Chriſt wondering at their unbeleif, this Miniſter told this Souldier they were Chriſts words, unto whom this Sectarian Souldier replyed, Chriſt ſpake thus in his darkneſſe: And another time this Miniſter ſpeaking with the ſame Sectary about being juſtified by Chriſts Righteouſneſſe, this Sectary replyed, Chriſts Righteouſneſſe was a beggerly Righteouſneſſe.
A She-Sectary an Anabaptiſt ſaid it boaſtingly again and again, That ſhe was every whit as good as Chriſt, no way inferiour to him, but equall to him, and if ſhe were not ſo the Scripture was a liar.