A Defense of Sundry Positions of the Congregational Way, Position 25 – Position 26
POSITION XXV.
The Church or the Miniſters thereof,The like words are found, anſw. to 32. q. p. 11.15. anſw. to 9. Poſ. p. 76.77, 28. muſt not be foreign, 1 Pet. 4. and therefore the Miniſter muſt not perform a Miniſteriall act to another Congregation, Acts 20.28. 1 Pet. 5.1, 2.
The Text in Peter ſpeaketh not of the Church, or of the Elders, Anſwer. more then of any other men, nor of meddling with the affairs of other churches, but with other mens matters; nor yet every meddling with them, but ſuch a meddling, as for which they ſuffered from the Heathens in thoſe dayes, Let no man ſuffer as a buſie-body in other mens matters, &c.
Neither do the Elders ſay that the Apoſtle ſpeaks of the Church, Reply. or the Elders thereof, when he doth dehort them from ſuffering as buſie-bodies in other mens matters; nor is the Text in Peter ſo much as mentioned in any of the quotations preſented in the margent, nor once intended to be made uſe of, to prove the thing they were ſpoken of; therefore is it not a groſſe wrong, to make the world believe that they made uſe of 1 Pet. 4. to any ſuch purpoſe? Only in p. 11. they make uſe of the word foreign, which Peter makes uſe of in 1 Pet. 4. but of that Text they make not uſe, when their ſcope was to appear againſt diſpenſing cenſures & Church-priviledges to Chriſtians, joyned to no particular Church, they ſay they muſt not be foreign, alluding to that place of 1 Pet. 4. where that word is uſed, but not intending to give the meaning of the place.
Now they might well apply the word to Miniſters intermedling without the bounds of their calling, becauſe the word foreign, though it ſignifie an Over-ſeer, yet uſually it is applied by the Holy Ghoſt, to a perſon over-ſeeing in ſpirituall matters, and ſo to a Miniſter of the Goſpel, and is tranſlated Biſhop; therefore foreign, is a perſon that playes the Biſhop in anothers Dioces, out of his own bounds moſt properly; therefore might be made uſe of in a way of application to Miniſters, though the Apoſtle ſpeak not of Miniſters in that place.
But what inference do you inferre after you have reſuted your own fiction?
It is of no more ſtrength (meaning 1 Pet. 4. Anſwer. ) againſt a Presbyterie over particular Congregations then againſt the power of Parliament over other Courts of Judicature.
You ſay true; Reply. the place which neither meddles with the one nor the other, nor was produced unto any ſuch purpoſe; may have no more ſtrength againſt the one then againſt the other; but there are other Scriptures brought, which deny to Miniſters that power over other Congregations which the Parliament hath over other Courts of Judicature, within their own territories.
The inference ſuppoſeth that the flocks mentioned in theſe two Texts, Anſwer. (viz. Acts 20.28. 1 Pet. 5.1, 2.) were two particular Congregations, which is impoſſible to be proved.
The inference ſuppoſeth no ſuch thing, Reply. only implieth that there is ſomething in thoſe Texts againſt Miniſters their performing miniſteriall acts to other Congregations, the truth of which we ſhall make to appear:
The Texts in Acts 20.28. gives this charge: Take heed to your ſelves, and to all the flock over which the Holy Ghoſt hath made you overſeers to feed the Church of God, i. their charge extends to none of them beyond the flock over which they were made over-ſeers in the work of feeding; now whether there were more Congregations in Epheſus, or but one, yet no Elder could then, or can now, feed any more then one Congregation, therefore they are Overſeers only, each of them, to one Congregation. Your ſelves will grant that they cannot feed in a conſtant way by word and doctrine, and the Sacraments, (which are the principall works of feeding) any more then one Congregation; therefore one Congregation bounds their Commiſſion; and conſequently, if they feed miniſterially other Congregations, they go beyond their Commiſſion, and are foreign.
2. It is more then probable, that the flock at Epheſus was but one Congregation: Firſt, Epheſus was a City, and we do not reade of more Congregations of Saints conſtantly meeting for the worſhip of God in any City, then one: Secondly, we cannot think, but that the Church of Jeruſalem, Corinth and Antioch, were as numerous as Epheſus, and yet none of them were more then one Congregation, if we be bound to reſt upon the Holy Ghoſts own teſtimony, who witneſſeth that they ordinarily met in one place, as before was ſhewed.
3. They are called one flock, one Church; now we have declared before, that one inſtituted Church, and a Congregation are all one, when Church is properly taken, and without a figure; and in this place there is no neceſſity of a figure, for there is no improbability but that they might meet in one place; therefore the charge runs to the Elders at Epheſus to feed the Church, viz. the Congregation at Epheſus, and to that they are ſo limited.
The Text in 1 Pet. 5.1, 2. gives this charge: Feed the flock that is among you. Now, neither the Elders to whom he writes were together, nor the Saints whom they were to feed, but both the one and the other, ſcattered abroad through many countries, Pontus, Galatia, Aſia, &c. therefore flock in this Text, is to be taken in a figurative ſenſe, and diſtributively of neceſſity; and the charge of feeding the flock is to be limited by the words (among you.) And thus it muſt be underſtood, you Elders in Pontus, feed the flock among you; and you Elders in Galatia, feed the flock among you, and you Elders in Aſia, feed the flock among you; and each of you in every place, feed the flock where you be, in each place. And more diſtributively yet, becauſe neither all the Elders, nor all the Saints in Galatia, Aſia, &c. were together, therefore it is thus to be interpreted; ye Elders in this City of Aſia, feed the flock among you; and ye Elders in that City, feed the flock among you; and ſo of all the reſt; ſo that the reſtriction in the Commiſſion is in theſe words (among you.) Now the Saints in Galatia were not with the Elders of Aſia, nor the Saints of one City of Aſia, with the Elders of another City of Aſia; therefore the Elders were by Commiſſion to look to the Saints in every City and place where themſelves were, and not to others where themſelves were not: So that if the Elders in Aſia ſhould take authoritative inſpection over the Saints in Galatia, and in other countries, they ſhould be foreign, Biſhops medling in others Dioces not belonging to them, becauſe all Elders are bounded to the Saints among themſelves.
Peter bids the Elders of Pontus, Anſwer. Galatia, &c. to feed the flock of God that is amongst them; therefore you ſay the Elders of one Church of Galatia, muſt not feed the people of another Church of Galatia. A communicant muſt examine himſelf; will you thence inferre, that none elſe muſt examine himſelf? The Theſſalonians were to know them that were over them, and laboured among them, and eſteem them very high in love for their works ſake; therefore muſt they not heare at all, or at leaſt not eſteem highly for their works ſake the Paſtors of other Congregations? 2 Theſ. 5.12, 13.
Your reaſoning is not good, Reply. (nor candid) by comparing things diſparate, you would caſt an abſurditie upon us, but it will light upon your ſelf. You argue from works of common Chriſtian duty unto works of Office very improperly: As ſuppoſe the matter were thus laid down; The Parliament writes to the Colonels of Lancaſhire, to look well to, and rule and govern the ſouldiers and people that is amongſt them; an inference is drawn hence, the Colonels of Lancaſhire are not to govern and rule the ſouldiery and people of Cheſhire, for their charge is over the ſouldiery and people amongſt themſelves; this inference is good. But you to overthrow it, would bring ſuch an argument as this: The Colonels of Lancaſhire muſt agree amongſt themſelves, muſt they not therefore agree with the Colonels of Cheſhire? The ſouldiers and people of Lancaſhire muſt reſpect and honour their own Commanders, muſt they not therefore reſpect and honour the Commanders in other counties alſo? This is a weak argumentation to overthrow the former inference; the fallacy lieth in this, you would extend duties of authority and office in ſuch manner as duties of love and reverence, and honour (which reſpect all men, all ſuperiours) are to be extended. Therefore, ſeeing that it is a feeding of office, and an authoritative feeding, that is enjoyned in thoſe Texts alledged, it is limited to the people over whom they are Officers, and may not be extended further. And yet the people of ſuch Congregations muſt love their own members, ſo as withall they muſt love the members of other Congregations; and they muſt reverence their own Officers, ſo, as withall they muſt reverence the Officers of other Congregations; yet their own moſt, becauſe relation there is ſtrongeſt: And the reaſon is, becauſe love and reverence are not actions annexed to Office, but of a common nature appertaining to men and Chriſtians.
Take heed to the flock, and feeding it, Anſwer. doth include adminiſtration of the Word, and Prayer, as well as of Sacraments; yet you hold, he may, notwithſtanding this Text, preach and pray in another Congregation.
Taking heed to the flock, and feeding it, Reply. doth include the adminiſtration of the Word and Prayer, of the Sacraments, and the exerciſe of Diſcipline; and yet your ſelf doth not place a parity in all theſe. For you are apprehenſive of a further liberty in preaching and praying, then in performing the other actions. You will preach to the Heathens as Heathens, but not give Sacraments to them; you may preach before Ordination for approbation, but not diſpence the Sacraments before Ordination; You may preach to a Congregation in Scotland, and yet not act authoritatively in their Synods among them. And now, what the reaſon of this ſhould be, we cannot imagine, unleſſe you grant with us, a difference betwixt ſome acts of feeding, and other acts of feeding, and ſay, ſome acts are ſo annexed to Office, and are ſo authoritative, that they cannot be performed but where Office is, and authority is; and other acts of feeding, though they they be authoritative to that people over whom the perſons performing them are Officers, yet they may be performed by a gift without Office, to another people, and are not authoritative to them. To this purpoſe ſpeak the Elders in anſwer to the 8th Poſition; and the reaſon will be good to us, till you yeeld a better.
The relation of Miniſters and People is mutuall; Anſwer. if the people my receive the Sacrament from another that is not their Miniſter, then the Miniſter may adminiſter it to them that are not of his flock.
In one ſenſe, all that you ſay is true; Reply. people may receive the Sacrament from one that is not their Miniſter, being recommended to him; and the Miniſter may adminiſter the Sacrament to ſuch as are ſo recommended to him; but then this recommendation is, as it were, a diſmiſſion, differing not really, but only in time: recommendation commends them for a time to fellowſhip with that Church, and diſmiſſion commends them for continuance without returning: See Cottons Keys aCottons Keys, pag. 17, 18., which you make ſo much uſe of againſt us. When perſons of another Church do orderly intermingle themſelves with this or that Church, then they are as members, and the Paſtor is as their Paſtor, and ſo he may diſpence the Sacraments to them. But it will not follow, that therefore he may act Miniſterially out of his own Church and People in and maong another Church and People; nor will relation of Miniſters and People being mutuall, bring ſuch a concluſion about. Magiſtrates and Subjects are Relatives; and if any Subjects of one county come to another county, and be wronged in the county whither he is come, he may requeſt juſtice from the Magiſtrate of the county where the wrong is done him, and receive it. But yet this will not draw on another thing, that hereupon, becauſe a Magiſtrate may diſpence juſtice to a ſtranger coming among his people, he may therefore go from among his people to another county, and diſpence juſtice among them: ſo of Miniſters, it may be ſaid, They are Paſtors to their own people, and perform Paſtorall acts to their own, and to thoſe that orderly are recommended to them as theirs; but when they leave their own, they are not Paſtors to other Congregations, to diſpence Paſtorall acts to them.
By vertue of communion of Churches you may, Anſwer. and do receive known approved recommended members of another Church, to the holy Communion. If you may receive one, why not two, three, ſix, ſeven, eight, which it may be, are the whole Congregation? Where doth the Scripture allow the one, and not the other?
We grant all you ſay, Reply. in this alſo, that if one, two, ſeven, eight, do come by recommendation, they muſt be received by vertue of communion of Churches; yet we demand, if theſe ſeven, or eight be the whole Congregation, who ſhall recommend them? For without recommendation, they cannot orderly be received. Or ſuppoſe they commend themſelves to the Communion of another Church, they are now ſallowed up in the fellowſhip of the other Church, and counted (pro tempore) as members thereof, and have not the conſideration of a diſtinct Church. And though it be lawfull for a Miniſter to diſpence the Sacrament to them with his own people; yet not lawfull to go forth from his own people, and to give it to them alone: If a whole town ſhould come to live in another town, they might have the juſtice of that town, and yet the Magiſtrate, though he might do juſtice to them in the town, being mingled with his own people, cannnt notwithſtanding diſpence it unto them, abiding in their own place. But you ask, Where the Scripture alloweth the one, and not the other? We anſwer, the Scripture alloweth the recommendation of the members of one Church to another, Rom. 16.1. 2 Cor. 3.1. But can you produce any place where the Miniſter of one Church hath acted miniſterially in another Church?
You grant that Elders have a calling to ordain Elders in other Churches whereof themſelves are neither Elders nor Members, Anſwer. by requeſt of that Church where the Elders are to be ordained.(k)R. M. & W. T. to C.H. p. 48. Reply.
While Mr. Mather ſaith they may intreat help, he holds by conſequence, that the Elders of other Congregations have no proper right of their own to ordain in other Congregations, and that their power is derived to them from thoſe Congregations that intreat them; and then it wil follow, that the help that ſuch Elders do afford, is not as they are Elders in reference to their Office; but as better gifted, and in reference to greater ability which ſuch Elders have to carry on ſuch a buſineſſe. The reaſon is, becauſe if ſuch Elders acted in Ordination as Officers in another Congregation, then they would have proper power ſo to act without intreaty; for intreaty makes not them Officers which were none before; and if they were Officers before, intreaty is not needfull to inable them. And if they act as Officers in another Congregation, then they may in all Congregations; for they are Elders alike in all as in any, ſave only where they are fixed. Now this is againſt Mr. Mathers principles; his meaning therefore was, that as if in caſe a Church want Elders to preach to them, they may intreat Elders of other Churches to preach to them, not becauſe they conceive that an Elder only may preach, but becauſe they judge an Elder to be more able to do it; ſo it muſt be underſtood in the buſineſſe of Ordination. In this ſenſe we wholly concurre with Mr. Mather, but in your ſenſe cannot grant it.
Whereras the 26. and 27th Sections concerne one and the ſame head of controverſie, we ſhall make one defence for both.
POSITION XXVI.
Gifted men,This is but a little altered from Anſw to 32. q. p. 80. & 73. & T. W. to W. R. p 44. & 56. viz. (ſo reputed by competent Judges, though) not called to the Miniſtery, nor intended for it, may preach. They that were ſcattered abroad upon the Perſecution which aroſe about Stephen, were not Church-officers, at leaſt not all of them: yet theſe men did preach the Word; and Philip which was but a Deacon, preached without the calling or privity of the Apoſtles, Acts 11.19. & 8.14.