The Quakers Wisdom Descendeth not from Above, Question 4
QUESTION 4. Concerning the Scriptures.
T D
THE Scriptures are the Word of God and the ſaid R…le of Faith and life, and that there is n… oth… ſt…n…ing R…le b…t th… Sc…ptu…es.
G …
Anſ. What then was their Rule who ſpoke … the Sc…iptu…es? And what was the Gentiles Rule? And what muſt be their R…le who cannot read th… …criptures? M…ſt they be condemned, becauſe they cannot read th…m? The Word o… God is in the hea…ts of Believ…rs, and of this Word the S…riptures are a true declara…on but a…t not the Word
T D.
R…ly I muſt ag…in refer the Reader for an anſwer to th… Qu…ie…, to Qu…kers Fo…y, p. 29, 30, 43, 44. And … matter c…n…a…ned …n the Scriptures is a Rule to … (ſo for as 'tis revealed to them) and w…s … …re it wa… put into w…iting. And ſo much of it as … up…n the hearts of Heathens, is a rule to th… R…m 2.12 And ſince they a…e in a body preſented …, th… whol… o… h…m are our Rule. And for thoſe who c…nnot r…a…, though th…y ſhall not be condemned for a …ur…l …ncapacity, yet they ſhall for not walk ng acc…rding to the Scriptures, as they a…ain the knowl…ge of them by ſome oth…r way a… hea…ng, &c. To that Not on, tha… the Sc… p…ures are but a true d…claration of th… Wo…d of …od …n the h…a…ts of Beli…vers. I rep…y, that th… …p u…s are al…o a d…claration of what ought to … th… hea…s of Bel…ev…s, …nd unbe…evers. If you m… (a… moſt of you do) that they are only a declaration of their conditions who ſpake them, read, 1 Pet. 1.10, 12. and that place alone will confute you.
T D.
John 20.30, 31. Suppoſe we had the ſigns faithfully r…co…ded, yet were they not our Rule, becauſe God did not g…ve order for them, but ha…h aſſured us as much as is …uffic…ent to create and preſerve Faith in the Goſpel wh…ch we have.
G ….
Anſ. Faith is the gift of God, not created and preſerved by the Sc…iptures, but by Chriſt the author of Faith And again, this Prieſt in affirming no other Rule, but what we have in Scr…pture, hath contradicted himſelf, p 44 he ſaies, that thoſe things that were not written, migh have …een uſeful, if they had been written, for they were done for the very ſame end, with thoſe (ſigns) which are l…ft us. So then many things that are not written, might have been as uſeful, as that which is written in the Sc…ptures.
T. D.
Reply. I ſee thou art a man of depth, G.W. to make an opp…ſition where there is … ſubordination, between the efficient and inſtrumenta… cauſe. The ſecond creation doth not exclude (though the firſt did) inſtruments or ſecond cauſes, James 1.18. Of his own will begat he us with the … of Truth. Rom. 10.17. Faith comes …y hear…ng, and hear…ng by the …o…d of God. Which Word is the repo…t o… the Goſpel. v. 16. I am not ſenſible of any contradiction in the paſſages G… quotes. Q. Folly, p. 26. I told Mr. F ſher, Sermons hav… the ſame common end with the Scriptures, yet they are not a Rule any furth…r than they ag…ee with the Scriptures, And hence the Bere…s are commanded for …xam…ning Pauls ſermons, by the Sc…iptures, Acts 17.11. Yet God bleſſes them ſo far as that the Word preached is the uſua… means of converſion, whereas the written Scriptures ar… more rarely ſuch. You add, as uſeful, which I did not affirm, for that which was delivered to us by Divine Authority, hath Gods promiſe of bleſſing, that it ſhall be inſtrumental to beget a Divine Faith, John 20.21. Theſe [ſigns] are written that ye might believe, &c. But from ſuch ſigns as are handed by humane autho…ity only an humane Faith may be expected, which is uſeful in its kind to prevent or take off prejudice againſt what is of Divine Authority, which the carnal reaſon of man is apt to cavil at… …f you ſay (as you ſeem to do) tha… if all the ſigns were done for the ſame end, then being written they muſt reach the ſame end. I deny the conſ…quence, for the difference lies in Gods arbitrary diſpenſation. H… w…ought them all for the end mentioned, but hath thought fit to tranſmit only ſome ſ…w by writing to po…erity, and they ſhall be in ſtead of all the reſt.
[G.W.
cavils at my denial o… their infallibility, which I judge anſwered ſuffic…ently, Qu Folly, p. 39. l. 20.]
T. D.
As for our want of infallibllity, 'tis no valid plea againſt our Miniſtry, p. 33. and the Spirit of God may accompany a Miniſtry, and the Miniſter not have the Spi…it. See for proof, Acts 20 30. Mat. 23.23.
G.W.
A…ſ. Th…y that want infallibility are out of the Truth. The Scribes and Phariſees th…t ſpoke perverſe things againſt the Ap…ſtles, the Spirit did not then accompany what they m niſtr…d.
T. D.
R ply. Why do you not reply to Acts 20.30. Which proves clearly that the Goſp…l-Miniſters are not infallible? As alſo 1 Theſ. 5.19, 20, 21. Which I improved, Q. Folly. p. 33. we may m…ſ…ke in ſome things, yet ordinarily we preach infallible Truths. Hence the Church is called t…e Pillar and Ground of Truth, 1 Tim. 3.15. Pillar, non ſe…ſu a…c…i…ctonico, ſed forenſi; as upon the Exchange in London, are Pillars upon which hang Tables of Proclamations. And Ground, foreign, Seat of Tru…h, or place of its reſidence, and the gates of Hell ſhall no more prevail againſt the publication, than the profeſſion and practiſe of infall…ble Truths in the Church univerſal, though they may againſt particular Miniſters and Churches, by damnable Hereſies (ſuch as yours, G.W.) And as for your inſtance of the Scribes and Phariſe …s. I anſwer, that though the Spirit did not …ccompany their Miniſtry, when they ſpoke againſt Chr…t yet h… d d accompany it, when they taught the people to …b e…v… ſuch things as Chriſt enjoyn…d And this they d…d o…ntimes, as I ſhewed, Mat. 23.3. What they hi… you obſerve, that obſerve, and do. Chr…ſt did then approve of their Doctrine in thoſe things wherein he would have it practiſed. And if ſo, then the Spirit was in their Miniſt y, and yet he was not in themſelves, for t…ey ſa…, and did not, (i. e. practiſed not their own Doctrine.)
[Reader, note that G.W. having anſwered after his faſhion ſome o the a…guments in …he Diſpu…e, he pretends alſo to reply to ſ…veral things, which I wrote againſt R.H. but G. Whith…s replies are ſo … j…ne, that I need but deſi…e you to compare them (if you judge them worth your reading, for I ſhall not ſtand to tranſcribe them) with the places in my Book, to which I ſhall refer you, and I dare ſtand to your judgment.
[G.W. p. 34. T. D. p. 35. G.W p. 35. T. D p. 36, 37. G.W p. 37. T. D. p. 40, 41. G W. p. 40. T.D. p. 44.]
Only four paſſages I ſhall bri…fly reply to.
T. D.
The righteouſneſs which God wo…ks in us, is but finite, as well as other effects, p. 39
G.W.
Anſ. And yet this Pr p. 37. hath owned that the righteouſneſs wh…reof Chriſt is th… ſubject, and that whereof he is the efficient are of one p…cies or kind; then I ſay, the righteou…neſs which God e…f…cts in us, is not finite, but infinite, for Chriſt is Gods righteouſneſs, and Chriſt is formed in us.
T.D.
Reply. A pitiful cavil! The righteouſneſs in Chriſt which I aſſerted to be of the ſame kind with that in us, muſt be underſtood of the righteouſneſs of Chriſts humane Natu…e, John 1.16. & of his fulneſſe have we received Grace fo… Grace, (viz.) As the eſſential and integral parts of the child anſwer to the Parents, or as the Paper receives the impreſſion of the ſtamp. Chriſt indeed is Gods righteouſn…ſs, in reſpect of Gods donation and acceptance of him for mans righteouſneſſe, 1 Cor. 1.30. Who (Chriſt) of God is mad… unto us righteouſneſs. But the righteouſneſs of the Divine Nature or Godhead is not our Juſtification. No, but the righteouſneſs of Chriſts Humane Nature, as it receives an infinite value from the Divine Nature, to which the Humane is united in one perſon.
T D
ſaid, the Spirit was not wont to be effectual without the Letter of the Word, and gave inſtance, Rom. 10.17.
G.W.
Anſ. He might as well have ſaid, the Apoſtles Miniſtry wa… not wont to be effectual, for P…ul was not a Min…ſter of the Letter (or writing) but of the Spirit, or thing declared of. 2 Cor. 3.6. Rom. 10.17. is againſt his principle, for there is a difference between the Word and the Letter, for the Word abideth for ever. 1 Pet. 1.23. So doth not the Letter. How would Pr. convince Heathens of Chriſt, i… the Spirit be not effectual without the Letter▪
T. D.
Rep…y. I had thought Paul had been a Miniſter of the Letter, (if you mean the writing) for did not he miniſter (as you phraſe it) many Epiſtles to the Churches, and command the Letter to be read, Col. 4.16. 2 Cor. 3.7. intends that Paul did not only ſhew them their duty, and the happin…ſs to be had in Chriſt, but his Miniſtry was a means of conveying ſtrength to do it, and putting them into an happy eſtate. Your d ſtinction between Word and L…tter is frivolous, the Letter abideth for ever in the ſ…n…e there intended, …z. in the impreſſions of it upon the hearts of the regenerate, v. 2, 3. 'Tis not true of the new creature, that he is bo…n to die. To your fond Queſtion, I anſwer, The Apo…tle makes preaching ordinarily neceſſary to the converſion of Heathens, Rom. 10.14. How ſhall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? Preaching, without the Spirits efficacy, brings but the Letter of the Word, yet 'tis as neceſſary by Gods ordination, as plowing, with the influence of the Heavens, to make the earth bring forth.
T. D.
The Goſpel gives life upon imperfect obedience.
G.W.
Anſ. And yet before he denied our good works to be a deſerving cauſe of juſtification, when now 'tis ſo far deſerving, that the Goſpel gives li…e upon it.
T. D.
Reply. Fair and ſoftly goes a great way in a day, G W. you make too much haſt to have good ſpeed, to find out a contradiction where there is none. I did not ſay that imperfect obedience deſerves life, though I did, that the Goſpel gives life upon it. Thus your Catholick Brethren, when J mes ſaies, This man ſhall be bleſsed in his de…d, Jam. 1.25. cry out, here is a clear place to prove, that we are bleſſed for our d…eds, but alas, they ma…k not the warineſs of the Scripture phraſe, which is not for, but in his deed. Our deeds may be Arg…ments or Evidences of our bleſſed ſtate, but no deſerv ng cauſe. And hadſt thou had any ingenuity, thou woul…ſt have taken in the who… period, which was neceſſary to underſtand my meaning, which was thus, Thoug… the Law gives not life without perfect obedience, the G…ſp…l gives it upon imperfect obedience, i. e. Thou…h the L…w exac…s per…ect perſonal obedience to Juſtification, … the Goſp…l does not, but by believing we obtain int…ſt in Chriſts righteouſneſs for that end.
T. D.
David was not free from th… b…ing o… ſin in this life, but a ſad inſtance of the power of it in real Saints, and yet he is made a pattern to New-Teſtament-Saints, Zach. 12.8. p. 48.
G.W.
Anſ That Scripture proves his Doctrine falſe, for the words are, He that is f…e…le among them ſhall be as David, and the Houſe o… Dav…d ſh…ll be as God, as the …ngel of the Lord …efore them. So that David and the New-T…ſtament-Saints were free f…om ſin, for in God is no ſin
T. D.
Reply▪ The words are intended in the Letter, of the H…o…ch Fort…tude and S…rength which the people ſhould have in …he t…me of danger, like to David's. And of …e …ngelik… a…d Divine pitch of both, which the Ruler… (intend…d by the Houſe of David, which was the Royal Fam…y) …ould be raiſ…d to through Faith in Chriſt. And ſo they give us two ſizes of ſtrength and for…tude, and not one only (as G… interpre…s them.) Some ſhall be as David, & others as God. Now look as Omnipotency is not Literally promiſ…d to Davids Houſe, but by an …x…ſſe of ſpe…ch, or Hyp…bole, a greater meaſure of ſtrength than others againſt bodily enemies, ſo nor can we underſtand it (ſp…ritua…ly) b…t of a greater meaſure of ſpiritual ſtrength againſt …p…itu…l enemies.
To conclude this diſcourſe, I ſhall not refuſe to imitate an adverſary (though I ſhall be more ingenuous than to wrong h…m as he hath done me) but ſhall b…i…fly ſum up his principles, and aſſertions, with the place in his Book, where they are to be found.
The Spirit was eff ctual among the Gentiles, who had not the Letter of the Word, p. 39.
The works of God which true Believers witneſſe, are perfect, p. 18.
He (meaning my ſelf) would have the Believers like the P…eſts who ſin in the beſt of their performances (as they conf ſſe) p. 18.
Th…t our good works are the meritorious or deſerving cauſe of our Juſtification, p. 19.
G. W. finds fault with me for holding that the Scriptures are the Word of God, and the only ſtanding Rule of Faith, and life, p. 29.
Thoſe Teachers that want infallib…lity, are out of the Truth, p. 33.
G. W. calls it Ignorance in me, to call the Spirit the third Perſon in the Trinity, p. 22.
FINIS.