The Quakers Wisdom Descendeth not from Above, Question 2
QUESTION 2. Of the Doctrine of Perfection.
T.D
SAi…h, p 9. your Doctrine of Pe…fection is againſt the Tenour of the Scripture, and to prove it, he b…ng… Job 9.20 and he ſaith, p 11. the Perfection Paul d…nies is th… ſtate of the reſurrection, which is to be wi h…ut ſin.
G.W
Anſ. Here he hath wronged the Scriptures, for th…y do not ſay that Perf…ction is againſt the Tenour of them, for God commands Pe…fection. And Paul denied not the ſtate of the reſu…rection, for he ſaid, If you be riſen with Chriſt, &c And he denied not freedom from ſin, Rom. 6.18, 22. Job 9 20, 21 proves not, that Job was not without ſin, when God had delivered him out of that affliction, wh rein he had ſaid, If I ſay I am perfect, &c. but after this Job was perfect.
T.D.
Reply. All the Scriptures which require repentance and mortification during this life, do deny the poſſibility of Perfection. For they and it are incompatible. As for the commands they are the meaſure of our duty, not of our ability to obedience. Ther's no reaſon to the contrary, but that Gods commands ſhould run in the old ſtile, though we are unable to fulfil them. As for Col. 3.1. which he quotes, 'tis plain that that reſurrect, with Chriſt, was conſiſtent with ſin, v. 5. Mortifie therefore your members which are upon the earth; By members we are to underſtand inordinate deſires, motions and actions of corrupt nature (ſuch as are reckoned up in the verſe) By mortifying them, a c…nſtant endeavour to repreſſe and ſubdue them. And the Argument to inforce the duty of mortification is drawn (as from their death with Chriſt, and life with him,) ſo from their firſt and ſpiritual reſurrection with him. But the ſtate of the reſurrection which Paul denies, is of that perfection of holineſſe (as I told you G.W.) which accompanies the laſt and bodily reſurrection. As for Rom. 6.18 22. I anſwered it in my Book, p. 47. The Apoſtle explains himſelf, that he means from the dominion of ſin, v 14. And for Job 'tis plain enough, that the Character given of Job, viz. a perfect man, was before his affl…ctions, and not after (as G W. would make the Reader believe) for Gods commendation of him for his perfection and uprightneſſe, v. 8. was the occaſion of the Devils deſiring leave of God to afflict him, v. 11. and of Gods grant, (that his words might be found true) v. 12.
T.D.
p. 12. A Believers perſon with his works are accepted with God, though his works be not perfect.
G.W.
Anſ. Here he would have believers like the Prieſts, who ſin in the beſt of their performances (as they confeſſe) But I ſay the Believers works are wrought in God, and God works them in them, and theſe works of God are perfect.
T.D.
Rep…y, As for our confeoſſin, 'tis agreeable to Scripture, Eccleſ. 7.20 There is not a juſt man upon earth, that doth good, and ſinneth not, i. e. that ſinneth not in doing good. Exod 28.38. In…quity of holy things is there ſpoken of, Duties which are holy for the matter, are in…quity for the manner of pe…formance. Your argument doth no more conclude for the perfection of Grace, than it does that every child ſhould be a man the firſt day of his birth, for that is one of Gods works, as well as Grace. As for Saints, they may be ſaid to be perfect in regard of parts (as a child is a perfect man) 1 Theſ. 5.23. Sanctified in ſoul, and body, and spirit, and in regard of their aims and intendments, but not as to degrees of Grace. Sin and Grace in this life are together in the ſame ſubj…ct, as Eſau and Jacob in th… ſame womb. As for the name of Prieſts, which throughout you give me, and other Miniſters of Chriſt, I count it no diſparagement (however you intend it) ſeeing Chriſt is called by the Holy Ghoſt, the High Prieſt of our Profeſſion, Heb. 3 1.
[The anſwer of G.W to Eccleſ. 7.20. is no other than what M. Fiſh r gave, which is v…ry abſurd, and not worthy any further reply, ſee Qu…k …s Folly, p. 13.
T.D.
We (the Saints) are one body with them in Heaven, and have the ſame title with th m in poſſeſſion, p 14, 38.
G.W.
Anſ This confutes his former words, for they that are one body with them in Heaven, are members of the Body of Chriſt which is perfect, and its members c…m…leat, …ol 2.10 Eph. 3 15
T D.
Reply. The Body of Chriſt is not yet perfect, for the e are great numbers of elect belonging to it, yet u bo n. Chriſt gives a commiſſion to preach, and a promiſe of b…ſſing to the Apoſtles, and their ſucceſſours, M…t 28.19 20. And the Apoſtle ſaies, that Paſtors and Teachers are for the edifying of the Body of Chriſt, till we all come in the unity of the Faith, &c. Eph. 3 12, 13. Put both places together, and they inform us that Chriſts Body is not built up (i. e. all the Elect not converted, and ſo not actual members of Chriſts body, for ſuch men are by Faith) till the end of the world. As for Col. 2.10. 'tis plain enough that the Apoſtle calls the Saints compleat, in reference to the Doctrine of Chriſt, which ſhewed them all things neceſſary to ſalvation, ſo that they needed not the addition, which natural reaſon, humane tradition, or Judaical ceremonies could make. As for circumciſion, we find expreſly that it was urged as neceſſary to ſalvation, Acts 15 1. This the Apoſtle denies. They are alſo ſaid to be compleat in Christ, in reſpect of Ordinances, and outward priviledges, as particularly of Baptiſm, which rendred ci…cumciſion uſeleſſe, becauſe it ſignified the ſame thing which circumciſion did, in a more large and emphatical manner, v. 11, 12. As for Eph. 3.15. Ther's nothing in that v. to his purpoſe, but I ſuppoſe he means v. 19 That ye might be filled with all the fulneſs of God. Fulneſſe of God intends not equality, but quality, a divine and ſpiritual fulneſſe. And the Apoſtle praies that they m…ght be filled with it all (and ſo they ſhould be in Heaven) but he aſſerts not that either they were, or ſhould be filled in this life.