The Way of Congregational Churches Cleared, Treatise 1 · Chapter 3 · Section 16
SECT. 16. Of the firſt abſurdity ſaid to be found in our way of Independency.
But what may bee thoſe ſhamefull abſurdities, which in leſſe then one week of yeares, wee have flowen out into more then (thoſe hee calleth) Browniſts in 50. yeares of their tryall.
The fruits of our Church way, (ſaith he) are firſt; the holding out of all our Churches and Chriſtian Congregation many thouſands of People, who in former time have been reputed in Old England very good Chriſtians.
And this (ſaith hee) ſeemeth a grievous abſurdity, a great diſhonour to God, and cruelty againſt men to ſpoile ſo many thouſand Chriſtians, whom they dare not deny to be truely religious of all the priviledges of the Church, either to themſelves, or to their children, or put them into the condition of Pagans, &c.
Anſw. 1. If all this were true, yet it is no greater an abſurdity then that wherein thoſe whom hee calleth Browniſts, have not onelyonly ſtumbled upon, but profeſſedly walked in: yea it may be, denying Church Communion to as many Churches as wee doe to perſons in this Countrey. And this Mr. Baylie hath taxed them for, above in pag. 27. of his Book, though here hee forget it.
Anſw. 2. It is not true, that wee hold out any at all, Engliſh or Indian, out of our Chriſtian Congregations. All without exception are allowed to be preſent, at our publick Prayers and Pſalmes, at our reading of the Scriptures, and the preaching and expounding of the ſame, and alſo at the admitting of Members, and diſpenſing of ſeales and cenſures.
Anſw. 3. It is not truly ſpoken, that wee hold out of all our Churches many thouſands of People, who in former times have been reputed in Old England very good Chriſtians, and whom our ſelves dare not deny to be truely religious.
I dare be bold to ſpeak it, wee hold not out any one ſuch: but if any ſuch be held out, we hold not off from them, but they from us: yea we ſeriouſly invite them (publickly and privately) to joyne with us: unleſſe ſuch religious perſons lye under ſome ſcandall of corrupt life, or Doctrin.
How then will Mr. Baylie make good (that which he truely calleth) his broad aſſertion? yes, he undertaketh to make it good by three teſtimonies.
1. Saith hee, wee have heard ſundry to eſteeme the number of the Engliſh in that Plantation to exceed 40000. men and women. But when Mr. Cotton is put to it, he dareth hardly avow the one half of theſe to be Members of any Church.
And to prove this, he quoteth (in P.) the anſwer to the 23. queſtions, page. 7.
Whereto the Reply is ready, 1. Mr. Baylie is miſtaken, if hee think the anſwer to the 32. queſtions was penned by me. Thoſe queſtions were ſent by ſome Miniſters in Lancaſhire or Cheſhire to one of their Country-men, (a reverend Brother, and fellow-Elder amongſt us) Mr. Mader: who to ſatisfie their deſires returned them that anſwer, which (it ſeemeth) hath ſince been printed. Which I ſpeak not, becauſe I wave the anſwer, for when he wrote it, he wrote adviſedly, and as his whole anſ…er is ſolid, and judicious; ſo is his anſwer, to the queſtion put to him, pertinent and full: but to Mr. Baylies Aſſertion, it cometh nothing neer it. But Mr. Baylie ſhould have done well, to have taken his full anſwer to that queſtion.
The New-Engliſh Plantations are ſcattered above two hundreth Miles in length upon the Sea Coaſts: & of what they did in thoſe remote Plantations, he could not then give preſent account. But (ſaith Mr. Mader) in the Churches within the Bay, where moſt of us are beſt acquainted, we may truely ſay, that for the heads of Families thoſe that are admitted, are far more in number then the other, beſides whom there are ſundry children and ſervants, that are admitted alſo.
And for the reaſons (ſaith he) why many are not yet received to Church-Communion, they be ſundry:
"1. Sundry are new come over, and ſo are not yet knowen.
2. Sundry when they come to be knowen are found ſcandalous.
3. Some godly perſons forbear to joyn with us for a time, till they may try, which Church and Miniſtery they can beſt cloſe withall.
4. Thoſe that are knowen to be godly (I may adde, though but in judgment of charity) they are all admitted to ſome Church or other, preſently upon their own deſire, unleſſe they have given ſome offence, which alſo is removed upon their giving due ſatisfaction.
This teſtimony will will not reach (nothing neere) Mr. Baylies aſſertion, That wee hold out of all Churches many thouſands of people, who were well reputed of in Old England, for very good Chriſtians, and ſuch as our ſelves dare not deny to bee truely religious.
2. His ſecond teſtimony is from Mr. Lechford, who ſtyleth his Book againſt the Country, Plain dealing. And what ſaith he? In his page 73. Here are (ſaith he) ſuch confeſſions, and profeſſions required both of men, and women, both in private and publick, before they be admitted, that three parts of the people of the Countrey remain out of the Church, ſo that in ſhort time, moſt of the people will remain unbaptized.
Anſw. The Book is unfitly called plaine dealing, which (in reſpect of many paſſages in it) might rather be called falſe and fraudulent. I forbear to ſpeak of the man himſelf, becauſe ſoon after the publiſhing of that Book, himſelf was called away out of the world to give account of his Book and whole life before the higheſt Judge. He was indeed himſelf not received into the Fellowſhip of the Church, for his profeſſed Errors: as 1 That the Antichriſt deſcribed in the Revelation was not yet come, nor any part of that Propheſie yet fulfilled from the 4. chapter to the end. 2. That the Apoſtolick function was not yet ceaſed: but that there ſtill ought to be ſuch, who ſhould by their tranſcendent authority govern al Churches. To reclaim him from theſe Errors, he was ſeriouſly dealt withall both in conference, and (according to his deſire) in writing. But when hee ſaw, he could not defend the latter. Error, but by building again the Biſhops, againſt whom he had witneſſed (as he ſaid) in ſoliciting the cauſe of Mr. Prynne, he rather then he would revoke his preſent tenent, acknowledged he was then in an Error, when he took part with Mr. Prynne, & Mr. Burton, & therefore he would now return to England again, to reduce thoſe famous witneſſes from the Error of their way. And accordingly, away he went: but ſee the wiſe hand of God diſappointing his ends; When he came to England the Biſhops were falling, ſo that he loſt his friends, and hopes both in Old-England and New: yet put out his Book (ſuch as it is) and ſoon after dyed. By the way, let no man think, he was kept out of our Churches, for maintaining the authority of Biſhops. For we have in our Churches ſome well reſpected Brethren, who doe indifferently allow either Epiſcopall, or Pre…byteriall, or Congregationall Government, ſo be it they governe according to the rules of the Goſpel. Neither do we diſturbe ſuch, nor they us in our communion with them. But to returne to Mr. Lechfords plain dealing: that which he teſtifieth, neither is it true; neither if it were, doeth it reach Mr. Baylies aſſertion.
It is not true, that three parts of the Countrey remaine out of the Church, if he meane three parts of foure, no though hee ſhould take in thoſe remote Engliſh, who live a ſcore of miles or more from any Church.
But were his ſpeech more true then it is, yet it will not make good Mr. Baylies aſſertion, unleſſe thoſe three parts of the Countrey, which (he ſaith) remaine out of the Church, were reputed in old England for very good Chriſtians, nor durſt our ſelves deny them to be truely religious, to which this teſtimony alledged giveth no evidence at all.
Mr. Baylies third teſtimony is from Mr. Williams, whom hee calleth one of us, who maketh ſuch Proteſtants to be Heathens and publicans, who depart from the Beaſt in a falſe conſtitution of Nationall Churches, if the bodies of Proteſtant Nations remaine in an unregenerate eſtate.
Anſw. I know not, why Mr. Baylie ſhould call Mr. Williams one of us, who renounceth our Churches, and is himſelf caſt out both of Church-fellowſhip, and civill cohabitation with us.
His teſtimony, which Mr. Baylie quoteth out of him, of the eſtate of all ſuch Proteſtants, as live in a Nationall Church eſtate, as if Chriſt did account them Heathens and Publicans.
I ſay no more to it but this, they may be ſo account…d by Mr. Williams, but wee doe not beleeve they are ſo accounted of by Chriſt, but many thouſands of them to be pretious Saints in the eyes of the Lord Jeſus.
To theſe teſtimonies, Mr. Baylie interſerteth his own teſtimony and others of his judgement, It ſeemeth to us (ſaith he) a grievous abſurdity, a great diſhonor to God, and cruelty againſt men to ſpoyle ſo many thouſand Chriſtians, whom wee dare not deny to be truely Religious, of all the Priviledges of the Church, &c.
Anſw. 1. It is not enough, that wee dare not deny men to bee truely Religions: but it were meet we ſhould know them, at leaſt, conceive good hope, they are truely Religiou…, (at leaſt in the judgement of charity) before wee receive them into the Church. And of ſuch there are not many thouſands, no nor many ſcores, no nor any ſcores, whom wee dare ſpoile of Church priviledges, unleſſe their own offence, or choice ſpoyle them.
Secondly, if men be not Religious, no not ſo much as in profeſſion, why ſhould it be accounted a grievous abſurdity, not to receive them into the Church? A thing is abſurd, which is foreign out of place. Are men who are not ſpirituall, out of their place, when they are not placed in a ſpirituall ſociety? If the Churches be (as Chriſt deſcribeth them) golden Candleſticks (Revel. 1.20.) is Tinne and Lead out of place, when it is not ſodered into a Golden veſſell? Sure God himſelfe thought otherwiſe, Iſay 1.25. But is it not rather a grievous abſurditie, and farre out of place, when ſuch are admitted to the Lords Table, who either diſcerne not the Lords Body, or if they be admitted to drink his Blood, will be ready when they are got into the Field to ſpill the innocent blood of thoſe Roundheads, whom they lately partaked withall at the Lords Table?
And as for the great diſhonour to God, (which Mr. Baylie imputeth to this way of ours) Is it a diſhonour to God, that ſuch are withheld from the Lords Table, by whom the name of God is diſhonoured either through their ignorance or ſcandall?
Is it not rather a great diſhonour to God, to ſet up Chriſt a viſible head of ſuch members, by whom his name is evill ſpoken of? And what cruelty is it againſt men, to keep ſuch from eating and drinking the Lords Supper, who would eate and drink it unworthily, and ſo eate and drinke their own damnation? 1 Cor. 11.29. The Lord himſelfe thought it no cruelty to debarre our firſt parents from the Tree of life, who if they had found free libertie to eate it, would have bleſſed themſelves in a falſe hope of living for ever? Gen. 3.22, 23.