The Bloody Tenant Washed and Made White in the Blood of the Lamb, Part 1 · Chapter 70
CHAP. 70. A Reply to his Chap. 73. Diſcuſsing the Teſtimony of Luther.
Diſcuſſer.
LUthers Teſtimony, ſaith the Anſwerer, reacheth to two things, neither of which we deny.
Firſt, that the Government of the civill Magiſtrate reacheth no further, then to the bodies and goods of their Subjects, not over their ſoules: and therefore they may not undertake to give Lawes to the ſoules and Conſciences of men.
Secondly, that the Church of Chriſt doth not uſe the Arme of ſecular power, to compell men to the true profeſſion of the Truth. For this is to be done with ſpirituall weapons, whereby Chriſtians are to be exhorted, and compelled.
But this (ſaith he) hindereth not,
That Chriſtians ſinning againſt the Light of Faith, and Conſcience, may juſtly be cenſured of the Church, by Excommunication, and of the civill Magiſtrate alſo, in caſe they ſhall corrupt others to the perdition of their ſoules.
This Joynt-confeſſion of the Anſwerer with Luther (to wit, that the Government of the civill Magiſtrate extendeth no further then over the bodyes and goods of their Subjects, not over their ſoules) who ſeeth not, that hereby is given a cleare Teſtimony, that either the ſpirituall and Church Eſtate, the preaching of the word, Baptiſme, Miniſtery, Government thereof, belongeth to the civill body of the Common-wealth, (that is, to the bodies and goods of men, which ſeemeth monſtrous to Imagine:) or elſe, that the civill Magiſtrate cannot (without exceeding the bounds of his Office) meddle with thoſe ſpirituall Affaires.
Defender.
A man that is willing to open his eyes, may eaſily ſee, that though the Government of the civill Magiſtrate doe extend no further then over the bodies and goods of his Subjects, yet he may and ought to improve that power over their bodies and goods, to the good of their ſoules: yea and by promoting the good of their ſoules, he may much advance the good of their outward man alſo. The bodies, and goods, and outward Eſtates of men may expect a bleſſing, when their ſoules proſper. Though God may keep his Saints low in outward Eſtate, that grow faſteſt in Godlineſſe: yet ſure Godlineſſe hath the Promiſes of this life, and of a better, 1 Tim. 4.8. And ſuch as firſt ſeeke the Kingdome of God, may expect all theſe outward things to be caſt in upon them. If it ſeeme a monſtrous thing in the eyes of the Diſcuſſer, to imagine, that the good Eſtate of the Church, and the well-ordering of the Ordinances of God therein, ſhould concerne the civill good of the Common-wealth, it may well ſeeme monſtrous to him, to imagine that the flouriſhing of Religion is the flouriſhing of the civill State, and the decay of Religion is the decay and ruine of the civill State. But ſuch Virgine ſoules, as follow the Lamb, whereſoever he goeth (Rev. 14.4.) would be loath to goe to live in ſuch a Common-wealth, to whom it ſhould ſeeme monſtrous, that the things of God ſhould belong to them.
And therefore the Magiſtrate need not to feare, that he ſhould exceed the bounds of his Office, if he ſhould meddle with the ſpirituall affaires of the Church in Gods way. It is true, if he ſhall meddle with the execution of a Miniſters Office, as Ʋzziah did or if he ſhall ſet up humane Inventions in Doctrine, Worſhip, Government, in ſtead of Chriſts Inſtitutions, as David brought the Arke of God upon Oxen, inſtead of the ſhoulders of the Levites: Or if he ſhall thruſt in Jeroboams Prieſts upon the Church, and caſt out faithfull Miniſters: or if he ſhall make Lawes to bind Conſcience, in all theſe, or any ſuch Like, he exceedeth the bounds of his Office. But if he ſhall diligently ſeeke after the Lord, and read in the word of the Lord all the dayes of his life (Deut. 17.19.) that he may both live as a Chriſtian, and rule as a Chriſtian, if he ſhall ſeeke to eſtabliſh and advance the Kingdome of Chriſt more then his owne: If he ſhall incourage the good in a Chriſtian courſe, and diſcourage ſuch as have evill will to Sion: and puniſh none for matter of Religion, but ſuch as ſubvert the Principles of ſaving Truth (which no good Chriſtian, much leſſe good Magiſtrate can be ignorant of) or at leaſt ſuch as diſturbe the Order of the Goſpel in a turbulent way, verily the Lord will build up and eſtabliſh the Houſe and Kingdome of ſuch Princes, as doe thus build up his.
Diſcuſſer.
Againe neceſſarily it muſt follow that theſe two are contradictory to themſelves (which yet both of them are Mr. Cottons Poſitions) the Magiſtrates Power extends no further then to the bodyes and goods of the Subject: and yet.
The Magiſtrate muſt puniſh Chriſtians for ſinning againſt the Light of Faith and Conſcience, and for corrupting the ſoules of men.
Defender.
If the Chriſtian Faith, and a good Conſcience be a part, and a great part, a chiefe part of the good of Chriſtians, then theſe two are ſo farre from contradicting one another, that they eſtabliſh one another. For if a Magiſtrates power extend to the preſerving of the Goods of the Subject, and to the puniſhment of the Impeachers or purloyners thereof: then he falleth ſhort of his duty, if he ſuffer their Faith and good Conſcience to be corrupted or diſpoyled without revenge. Againe, this I ſay further (which alſo will eaſily avoyde appearance of Contradiction) ſuppoſe by Goods were meant onelyonly outward Goods, and that the Magiſtrates power extended no further then the bodies and goods of the Subjects: yet though he have no power over Faith and Conſcience, he hath nevertheleſſe lawfull power to puniſh ſuch evill doers in their Bodies and goods, as doe ſeduce his people to make ſhipwrack of Faith, and a good Conſcience. For in ſeeking Gods Kingdome and Righteouſneſſe, men proſper in their outward Eſtates, Matth. 6.33. otherwayes they decay. Beſides, I doe not remember, that this Propoſition is any of mine (which yet the Diſcuſſer faſtneth upon me) that the Magiſtrates power extendeth no further then the bodies and Goods of his Subjects.
I doe not deny the Truth of it, rightly underſtood, but it ſeemeth to me ſomewhat too looſe, and confuſed, for me to owne it as mine own. For the Magiſtrates power may be ſaid to extend no further then the bodyes and Goods of his Subjects, either as the Subject of his power, or as the end of his power. If Goods be meant outward Goods, and the Magiſtrates power be ſaid to extend no further then to the body and Goods of his Subjects, as to the Object of his power, the Poſition is true. But if it be meant of the end of his power, as if a Magiſtrates power reached no further then to the preſervation of their bodyes, and outward Goods, it is falſe For the Adequate end of the Magiſtrates power, is foreign, benè adminiſtrare Rempublicam, well to governe the Common-wealth. Now can it be well with a Common-wealth, that liveth in bodily health, and worldly wealth, but yet without Church, without Chriſt, without God in the world? But though God for a time may preſerve a civill State in health and wealth, through his Patience, and bounty, eſpecially till meanes of Grace be offered to them: yet after meanes of Grace be offered, they cannot long expect bodily health, or wealth to be continued to them, if they neglect, or deſpiſe, or depart from ſo great ſalvation. Witneſſe the Romane Empire, which though it abounded in worldly bleſſings, till the Lord Jeſus came riding forth amongſt them upon a White Horſe of the Goſpel of his Grace: yet after they neglected ſo great Salvation, then followed a Red Horſe of Warre, and a black Horſe of Famine, and a Pale Horſe of Peſtilence and other Judgements, which much impeached both the health, and wealth of that State, and would have ruined it, had it not caſt away her Idolls, and advanced the Scepter of the Lord Jeſus.
Now the God of all Grace be pleaſed at length to ſhake the heart of this Diſcuſſer, that he may not thus delight to ſeduce himſelfe and others againſt the Light of Grace, and Conſcience, againſt Reaſon and Experience.
Diſcuſſer.
Againe, in the Anſwerers Joynt-confeſſion with Luther, that the Church doth not uſe the ſecular power to compell men to the Faith, and Profeſſion of the Truth, he condemneth (as before I have obſerved.)
1. His former implication, that they may be compelled, when they are convinced of the Truth of it.
Defender.
This implication where it was formerly obſerved, it hath been formerly cleared from implication of Contradiction. I have never ſaid, that after men be convinced of the Truth, they may be compelled to the Profeſſion of it, by any penalties, but onelyonly by withdrawing ſuch favours as are not comely or ſafe for faithleſſe perſons.
Diſcuſſer.
2. He condemneth their owne Practiſe, who ſuffer no man of any different Conſcience and worſhip to live in their Juriſdiction, unleſſe he depart from the Exerciſe of his owne Religion, and worſhip, differing from that allowed of in their civill Eſtate, yea and alſo actually ſubmit to come to their Church.
Defender.
This charge of the Diſcuſſer, let him conſider, if it be not contradictory to his owne Relation, chap. 60. where he ſaith, wee permit and tolerate the Indians in their Paganiſh worſhip, which wee might reſtraine. Yet here he ſaith, we ſuffer no man of any different Conſcience, or worſhip to live in our Juriſdiction.
Neither is it true, that we ſuffer no man of any different Conſcience or worſhip to live in our Juriſdiction. For not to ſpeake of Presbyterians, who doe not onelyonly live amongſt us, but exerciſe their publick Miniſtry without diſturbance, there be Anabaptiſts, and Antinomians tolerated to live not onelyonly in our Juriſdictions, but even in ſome of our Churches. Yea ſaith the Diſcuſſer, but they muſt actually ſubmit to come to our Church.
I cannot ſay, nor doe I beleive, that any man is compelled to come to our Church, againſt his Conſcience. Nay we are ſo farre from that, (and that the Diſcuſſer is not ignorant of) that our Churches doe not expoſtulate with our Members who heare in England, no not then, when there was more difference from us in manner of worſhip, then (through the mercy of God) now there is. The which the Diſcuſſer himſelfe hath declared to have been no little Offence unto himſelfe. Which maketh me the more to marvell, that he ſhould now charge it upon us, that we compell all to come to heare in our Churches, againſt their Conſciences: when he is wont to be offended, that we ſuffer them to heare in any true Church (though polluted) according to their Conſciences.
Diſcuſſer.
Howſoever they cover the matter with this varniſh, that none are compelled further unto their Churches, then unto the hearing of the word, unto which all men are bound: yet it will appeare, that Teaching, and being taught in a Church Eſtate is a Church-worſhip, as true-and proper a Church-worſhip, as is the Supper of the Lord, Acts 2.46.
I cannot call to mind, that either upon that colour, or any other, any man in this Country was ever compelled to heare the word of God, in any of our Churches, in this Country. But there is indeed ſome colour for the varniſh he ſpeaketh of: but not that which he pretendeth (our compulſion of any man for to heare:) but a controverſie with himſelfe upon another occaſion, as I remember.
The Diſcuſſer ſometimes endeavoured to draw away the Church of Salem (whereof he was ſometime Teacher) from holding Communion with all the Churches in the Bay, becauſe wee tolerated our Members to heare the word in the Pariſhes of England. Wee to ſatisfie him in that, held forth (that which here he calleth a varniſh) that hearing was a common Duty lying upon all men, where the word of God was truly taught. He replyed, as he doth now, that Teaching and hearing in a Church-Eſtate is Church worſhip, Acts 2.46. To which we gave Anſwer (as now againe) That though Teaching and being taught in a Church-Eſtate be Church-worſhip (according to Acts 2.46.) yet it is not a Church-worſhip, but to ſuch as are in a Church-Eſtate. To all it is an holy Ordinance of Gods worſhip, and a Chriſtian Duty. And though Teaching and hearing doth imply a Relation, yet not a Church-relation. There is a relation between a Teacher, and a Learner, in any Art, or Knowledge: and there may be a nearer relation between a Preacher and an Hearer, in caſe the Hearer be begotten to God by ſuch a Sermon (even the ſame relation as is between a ſpirituall Father, and Sonne:) but this doth not amount to Church-relation, and Communion, till there paſſe ſome mutuall profeſſion of Covenant (explicit or implicit) between them. A Pagan Infidell may come into a Chriſtian Church-Aſſembly to heare the word, and may be convinced and converted by it, (as ſuppoſe he in Corinth, 1 Corinthians 14.24, 25.) yet is he not therefore joyned in Church-Eſtate, and Fellowſhip with them, without profeſſion of acknowledgement, and acceptance.
Diſcuſſer.
Secondly, all perſons (Papiſt, and Proteſtant) that are Conſcientious have alwayes ſuffered upon this ground eſpecially, that they have refuſed to come to each others Church, or meeting.
Defender.
It is too large an Hyperbole, to affirme, that all perſons that are Conſcientious (whether Papiſt, or Proteſtant,) have alwayes ſuffered upon this ground. Are no men conſcientious but ſuch as have ſuffered upon this ground? are there not many that were never put upon this Tryall? and are not many conſcientious, that never ſcrupled this point? and are there not many conſcientious, that have ſuffered upon other points, that never ſuffered upon this point?
Beſides though many conſcientious Proteſtants and Papiſts doe refuſe to heare in each others Aſſembly, or Church, it is not becauſe ſuch hearing doth implant them into their Church-State: but out of feare to be leavened with their corrupt Doctrine, or polluted with ſome other part of falſe worſhip.