A Brief Answer to Objections Against Presbyterianism, Text – Imprimatur

A Brief Answer to Objections Against Presbyterianism · Text – Imprimatur

A brief ANSWER TO OBIECTIONS Of all ſorts, againſt PRESBYTERIAN CHVRCHES and their GOVERNMENT.

1 Pet. 3, 15, 16.

But ſanctifie the Lord God in your hearts, and be ready alwayes to give an anſwer to every man that aſketh you a reaſon of the hope that is in you, with meekneſs and fear:

Having a good Conſcience, that whereas they ſpeak evill of you, as of evill doers, they may be aſhamed that falſly accuſe your good converſation in Chriſt.

London, Printed by Francis Leach. Anno Dom. 1650.

p. 1An Anſwer to Obiections of all ſorts againſt Presbyterial Churches & their Government.

IN former times the Prelaticall party troubled our Church with a falſe Government, but now in their ſtead is riſen up an increaſe of ſinfull men, who will have no Government at all, but combine together againſt all that are for it, like Gebal, Amon, Amaleck, and the Philiſtines, with them of Tyre, helping the Children of Lot to root out the name of Iſrael, that it be no more had in remembrance, Pſalme 83. and all theſe take advantage upon the late Act of Parliament Intituled an Act for relief of Religious and peaceable people, from the rigour of former Acts of Parliaments, in matters of Religion, by which all thoſe penall Statutes are repeal'd, that bound all ſorts of People to frequent our publick Aſſemblies, in the worſhip of God.

Objection But thoſe former Acts of Parliament which are now repeal'd, onelyonly required our aſſembling at the time of Divine Service.

Anſ. It is true; but then that which was Divine Service in ſhew and not in truth was aboliſhed out of our Churches before this Act came forth, together with the Service Book alſo, and that which is truly Divine Service is ſtill remaining, which is preaching, reading, and expounding the word of God, alſo catechiſing, ſinging of Pſalms, prayer, and Adminiſtration of both Sacraments, now to the neglect of thoſe duties, the penalties of theſe Statutes did of right belong, and theſe people being ſenſible of it deſired freedome, and that without danger of Law.

Objection, But thoſe duties are maintain'd in our ſelect Congregations, which are as true Churches, as thoſe particular Presbyterian Congregations.

Anſ. To acknowledge thoſe Divine ordinances to be in our Churches, and yet to ſeparate from them, ſhew plainly that their practiſe is ſedition, and their Aſſemblies to be but ſo many Conventicles p. 2againſt the true Churches of Ieſus Chriſt. 2. Independent Aſſemblies are not as branches of other fixed Churches, becauſe they are Independent; for can that be a branch of the tree that was never faſtened to it, nor received any ſap or moyſture from it? or can that be a member of the body that was never of it, but altogether Independent? 3. the Creatours and founders of thoſe Aſſemblies we know, yea any man that can but get to himſelf a company of followers, he may ſoon create to himſelf ſuch a Church, although he ſteal to himſelf a flock out of the folds of other Shepherds, as ſeducers uſe to do, Acts 20.30.4. They deny Claſſes and Synods which would be as ſinnews to the Body, and as morter to the building to ſement the Churches together, and although they will ask counſell of other Churches, they deny all power to determine any thing for particular Churches, ſo that their meeting for counſell and advice, can do them no more good, than that head or body can do to the fingers and toes, when the arms & legs are cut off that ſhould faſten them to the body. 5. Theſe Church gatherers are not like to the Apoſtles who gathered Diſciples from without among heathens, and not from the folds of other ſhepherds. 2. They gathered them all into that one univerſall Church, but theſe to themſelves, which would have been ſedition in all nations. 3. They took nothing for their pains, but theſe take mony of the pooreſt ſervant, and ſuch as cannot contribute to them ſhall not be admitted. 6. Theſe Church-gatherers are not like thoſe fixed Officers, as Paſtours and Elders, placed by the Apoſtles in every Church, Acts 14.25. for theſe are not contented with that flock, nor with the maintenance thereof allotted to them as their Predeceſſors were before them, but ſeek for members out of other Churches to make it up. 2. Theſe men for the moſt part have not thoſe qualifications required for that office, having not the gifts of tongues, I mean thoſe originall languages in which the Scripture was firſt written, neither mediately taught them in Schools, nor by immediate inſpiration. 3. Theſe Church-gatherers have no lawfull Ordination by the hands of the Presbyterie, as all the Miniſters of the Goſpell have, 1 Tim. 4.14. therefore they are no true Churches; But now Presbyterian Churches are rightly deſcended, as branches and Members of the firſt fixed Churches, and they alſo as members of the univerſall viſible Church, inſtituted by Ieſus Chriſt; I call this Church univerſall, becauſe it is not confined to any place, onelyonly it ſhall be built upon that rock Ieſus Chriſt, Mat. 16.18. who will be with his people in all ages and places, Mat. 28.20. to him be p. 3glory in the Church throughout all ages world without end, Epheſ. 3.21. Now this Church ſo promiſed to be built cannot be meant that part of it in heaven, called the Church of the firſt born, where the ſouls of the juſt are made perfect, Heb. 12.23. for that was not then to build, but was prepared from the foundation of the world, Mat. 25.34. whoſe maker and builder is God, Heb. 11.10. neither was that the inviſible Church ſo loved and ſanctified by Ieſus Chriſt, Eph. 5.25. becauſe the Apoſtles are the builders of it, for ſaith Paul, I as a wiſe maſter builder have laid the foundation which is Ieſus Chriſt, 1 Cor. 3.9, 10. and this foundation was to be laid in all nations, Mat. 28.19. and in this Church were all the Miniſters of the Goſpel placed, 1 Cor. 12.28. and unto this Church were all Chriſtians when converted from heathens and Infidells admitted; Acts 2, 41, 47.

Now the builders of this univerſall viſible Church being ſent into all nations to build it, where they ſaw the word of grace moſt effectuall there they tarried longeſt, being firſt at Ieruſalem, and there multitudes were converted by the Apoſtles, and the Seventy and others, hereupon they were called the Church at Ieruſalem Acts 22. now all the Apoſtles and extraordinary prophets ſo wrought together as a common Presbytery, for the good of the whole multitude, and none of them gathering to himſelf a Church, but ſeeking all to enlarge that one Church, now when all Ieruſalem, and all Iudea, and round about Iordan, were all baptiſed of Iohn, Mat. 3.56. and ſo converted to the Chriſtian faith, then this Church branched it ſelf out into Churches in Iudea and Galite, and Samaria, acts 9.31. 1 Theſ. 2.2.14. and the Apoſtles ordained Elders being fixed officers, and divided to every one his congregation, ordaining Elders in every Church, acts 14.23. and thus Paul left Tytus to ordain Elders fixed and confined to every City, Titus 15. which is in Scripture-language every town or viilage, the town of Bethlehem, Iohn 7.42. being little, Mich. 5.2. yet called the City of David, Luke 2.4. the towns of Iair threeſcore Cities, Ioſhua 13.3…. and Iudges 10.4. thirty Cities, in the margent villages; now if our Antagoniſts did but obſerve thoſe things, they would be content with thoſe Churches, which were ſo confin'd, and ſo allotted to them and their Predeceſſours, yea even by the Apoſtles themſelves, as all thoſe Elders were which they placed in every Church The next mother Church was that at Antioch, ſo called, Acts 11.26. having ſome Apoſtles, and many extraordinary prophets in it, Acts 13.1. which came from Ieruſalem, Acts 11.27, and there they alſo tarried, and many Chriſtians p. 4were converted; yea they were firſt called Chriſtians at Autioch, v. 16. Now this Church did as that at Ieruſalem, branch it ſelf out into the Churches of Syria and Cilicia, Acts 15.23.41. and thoſe Churches were all governed by thoſe Miniſters at Antioch who came together as all concerned in the ſame buſineſſe, when ſeducers would have broached errors amongſt them, Acts 15.1, 2. neither did they reſt there, in regard they could not there determin it, but appealed to the Synod at Ieruſalem, made up of fixed Officers, confined to their particular congregations, yet thoſe Elders with the Apoſtles came together about that queſtion, Acts 15.6. and ſo being determined by them, all thoſe Churches were eſtabliſhed in the faith, and increaſed in number daily, not onelyonly of Chriſtians, but of Churches, Acts 16.5. and all as branches of that Church at Antioch, depending ſtill upon it, and having recourſe to it upon all weighty occaſions.

And the next example, are thoſe Churches of Aſia, every Church there branching it ſelf out into Churches, and every Church there containing Churches was govern'd by one common Presbytery; for the Angel of every Church is blamed for all things amiſs in all thoſe Churches contained in it; now this Angel muſt either be an Arch-Biſhop over all thoſe Churches contained in it, or elſe a Presbytery charged with thoſe Churches: but it was not an Arch-Biſhop, for ſaith Chriſt to his Miniſters, Kings of the Earth exerciſe Lordſhip over their brethren, but it ſhall not be ſo among you, Luk 22.25, 26. Again, all the Elders in Epheſus are charged to watch and feed that Flock, conteining many Churches, Acts, 20.21. and they all as branches of that one Church ſo govern'd.

And thus it was of old, the Lord brought a Vine out of Egypt, called the Church in the Wilderneſſe, Acts 7.38. This Vine the Lord planted in Canaan, and it ſpred out her boughs to the Sea, and her branches to the River, and filled the Land, Pſal. 80. And ſo that Congregation mentioned Pſal. 74.2. brancht it ſelf out into Congregations, ver. 4. having Synagogues in every City, where the Law of Moſes was read every Sabbath day, Acts 15.21. yea Chriſt and his Apoſtles did frequently preach in their Synagogues, Luke 4.16. Acts 17.1, 2. and alſo blame thoſe that forſake this Aſſembling, as the manner of ſome was, Heb. 10.25. this is the true deſcent and dependency of Presbyterian Churches.

Obj. But your Churches are diſcended from Antichriſt, for Auſtin the Monk being ſent into England by the Pope, brought hither your religion, and from him your Miniſters had their ordination, and ſhall be deſtroyed together.

p. 5Anſw. The Chriſtian Religion came from Chriſt, and not from Antichriſt, and alſo our Miniſters ordination, for Chriſt ordained 12. and ſent them out to preach, Mark 3.14. and they had power from him to ordain Elders in every Church, Acts. 14.23. and they left the ſame power with other Miniſters to ordain Elders in every City, Titus 15. and thus they did ſucceſſively to this day, and although this Ordinance paſſed under Antichriſt who ſits in the Temple of God, and received ſome defilement, yet not ſo as to nullifie it, but if this Monk or Popiſh Biſhop, ſhall renounce popery, and all their uſurpation and engagements to that ſtrumpet, and preach the word of God truly, and to one flock, I think they may be accounted ſtill lawful Minſters, and need no other ordination to admit them into the Miniſtry, nor their people no other re-baptizing to admit them into our Church; but ſecondly, ſuppoſe the Pope and that Monk to be enemies to the true Church, yet Chriſt ſometimes makes uſe of his enemies to do ſervice for his Church, as the King of Aſſiria did though he thought not ſo, Iſa 10.7. ſaith Ioſeph, you thought evill, but God meant it to good, to ſave much people alive. Gen. 50.20. The wrath of man ſhal praiſe him, and the remainder he will reſtrain, Pſa. 76.10. by the perſecution at Ieruſalem the Goſpell was ſpred into all Nations Acts 11.19. yea the Devil himſelf by the treaſon of Iudas, did accidentally forward our redemption by Chriſt, who rules in the middeſt of his enemies, Pſal. 110, 2. Balaams propheſie, nor the propheſie of Caiphes the High Prieſt, muſt not be deſpiſed becauſe they came from them, nor what is of Chriſt in the hand of a Monk, but 3dly. I ſhall prove that the Chriſtian Faith was in Britain, before either Antichriſt was in being, or Auſtin the Monk came hither, for ſaith Mr. Fox in his Epiſtle to the univerſall Church, prefixed before his firſt volume to his Acts and Monuments, the heathen Emperours of Rome ſought to deſtroy the Church of Chriſt, and their Perſecution continued the ſpace of 300 yeares (Now mark) in all this time God raiſed up in this Realm of Britain divers worthy Preachers, and leſt we ſhould doubt the truth of it, he ſets down ſome of their names as Elnanus, Medvinus, Mettivianus, Amphibolus, Alba…us, Aaron, Iulius and others, in which time the Doctrine of faith, without mens traditions, was ſincerely preached, even before the Man of ſinne was revealed, yea before the Empire which letted was taken away, 2. Theſ. 2, 3. to 9. and after their death and Martyrdome, the Church having peace, increaſed in Britain and was governed by Chriſtian doctrine, a long ſeaſon by Fistidius, Mujanus, Parrynus, Bcchia…us, p. 6Dubxinus, Congellus, Kentigernus, Helmodus, David, Daniel, Samoſon, Ellnadogus, Aſaphus, Gildus, Hentanus, Ellbodus, Dinathus, Samuel, Novius, and many more a long ſeaſon, although the Civil Governors were careleſſe, as Gildas ſharply lays to their charge, and ſo at length were ſubdued by the Saxons; now all this while about the ſpace of 400 years, Religion remain'd in Britain uncorrupt, and the word of Chriſt was truly preached, till about the comming of Auſtin and his Companions from Rome, or as Cambden ſaith from the Pope, who was not then in being, nor him that leteth taken away, for the Biſhop of Rome calls King Lucius the Prince of Biſhops, and Mr. Fox page 11. ſaith the word Pope ſignifying Father was frequently given to all Biſhops, as to Auguſtine, Hierome, Epiphanius, Athanaſius, and Cyprian the Biſhop of Carthage, yea to mean Biſhops, for all were of equall authority, till the Councell of Nice held in the Year 340. where they made four Patriarks, or Metropolitans, the Biſhop of Rome, the Biſhop of Alexandria, the Biſhop of Antioch, the Biſhop of Ieruſalem, and after that the Biſhop of Conſtantinople inſtead of the Biſhop of Antioch, yet none of them univerſall, till Pope Silveſter claim'd this title in the year 670. and after him Hildebrand. Gregory the ſeventh added the Temporall power, cauſed the Sword to be carried before him; ſee page 2. all which might ſuffice to ſhew that Britain had not received the Chriſtian faith from either Pope or Monke, and yet the true Chriſtian faith; for we have all the properties of a true Church, we have the word of God truely taught, and the Sacraments truly adminiſtred, and prayer put up in the name of Ieſus Chriſt, by thoſe that are lawfully called into the Miniſtery, and our people yeelding true obedience to thoſe truths, taught and prayd for, now although for ſin God may remove our Candleſtick, yet the gates of Hell ſhall never prevaile to deſtroy ſuch a Church, Mat. 16.18. for God will have glory in the Church by Ieſus Chriſt throughout all ages world without end, Eohe. 3.21. and Chriſt will be with his Miniſtery to the end of the world, Mat 28.20. he holds the Stars in his Right hand, Rev. 1.16. and what is done to them hee will take as done to himſelfe, and his Ordinances ſhall continue, for Chriſt will be with his Miniſters, teaching and baptizing, to the worlds end, and the Lords ſupper ſhall ſhew forth the death of Chriſt till his coming again, 1. Cor. 11.26. and both Miniſtry and Ordinances are placed in the Church for the perfecting of the Saints, til they come to a complete man in the knowledg of the Son of God, Eph. 4.12.13. which is not attain'd in p. 7this world, for here we know but in part, but then ſhall we know even as we are knnown, 1 Co. 13.12. therefore our Churches are from Ieſus Chriſt, and not from Antichriſt, neither ſhall they be deſtroyed.

Object. But ſince your firſt receiving the Chriſtian ſaith, England hath put themſelves under the yoke of Antichriſt, for all Chriſtian Kings had given their power to the Beaſt, Rev. 17 12.17.

Anſ. It is true, that all theſe Kings gave their State-power to the Beaſt, but the Churches power was not theirs to give, neither did the Church give their power to the Beaſt, for ſhe had alwayes ſome to witneſſe againſt Antichriſt all the time of this Raign, Rev. 11.3. yea the Ordinance of Baptiſme, and Ordination of Miniſters, the one to ſolemnize the admittance into the Church, and the other into the Miniſtery, was never taken out of the Chriſtian Church, no not out of Rrme it ſelf, for Antichriſt ſits in the Temple of God: 2. Theſ. 2.4. ſo then it is not the want of theſe Ordinances, but the abuſe of them that makes Rome Antichriſt; neither doth the having of theſe Ordinances make Rome a true Church, for Samaria had Circumciſion, and Rome hath Baptiſme, yet Samaria was not the Iewiſh Church, no more is Apoſtate Rome the Chriſtian Church; for although their miniſters are admitted into the miniſtry by Ordination, and the people into the Chriſtian Church by Baptiſme, yet they will neither teach the Covenant of grace, nor the people yeeld obedience to it; the which if they did, I ſuppoſe their Miniſters need no other Ordination into the Miniſtry, nor the people no other Baptiſme to admit them into the Chriſtian Church.

Obj. But you give ſuch names to the materiall places of publique worſhip, as properly belongs to Gods People, as the Church, the houſe of God, and the Temple, which is ſuperſtition.

Anſ. It is true that Gods people are called the Church, but it is as true that the place appointed or ſet apart for the Worſhip of God is called the Church, for ſaith Paul, When you come together in the Church, or have you not houſes to eat and drink in, or deſpiſe yee the Church of God, 1. Cor. 11.19.21.. Secondly, this place of publike worſhip in the Kingdom of Grace, is a type of that place of eternall worſhip, called the Church of the firſt-born, Heb. 12.23. Therefore the type may be called the Church, as well as the Antitype; and Gods people are as lively ſtones built up into a ſpirituall houſe, 1. Pet. 2.5. which houſe are wee: Heb. 3.6. but it is as true that the place of Gods worſhip is called the houſe of God; for ſaith David, they take the houſes of God in poſſeſſion, Pſa. 83.12. Is it p. 8time to dwell in your ſealed houſes, and my houſe lye waſt, Hag. 1.4 My houſe, ſaith Chriſt, ſhall be called a houſe of Prayer, Mat. 21.3. take theſe things hence, and make not my Fathers houſe a houſe of Merchandize, Iohn 2.16. and when this earthly houſe of Gods Worſhip is diſſolved: we ſhall have an houſe not made with hands, 1. Cor. 5.1.

And Gods people being together in the worſhip of God, grow unto an holy Temple in the Lord, Ephe. 2.21. but it is as true, that the peace of Gods worſhip is called the Temple, for Peter and Iohn went into the Temple, at the hour of prayer, being the ninth hour, Acts 3 1. The meſſenger of the Covenant ſhall come into his Temple, Mal. 3.1. This was fulfilled when Chriſt diſputed in the Temple, Luke 2.46. and when he drave out the buyers and ſellers, Iohn 2.15. And when he preached in the Temple, Luke 19.47. Iohn 18.20.

Again, them of all Religions do highly eſteem of the place ſet apart for the Worſhip of their Gods, giving them the like honourable names, as Dagons houſe, the houſe of Baal, and the Temple of Diana, Acts 19.27. the Idoll Temple, and alſo Churches, for, ſaith the town Clerk, theſe men are no robters of Churches, nor yet blaſphemers of your Gods, Acts 19.37. then why ſhould not we ſay with David, Lord I have loved the habitation of thy houſe, and the place where thy Honour dwelleth? Pſal. 26.8.

Again, what is ſet apart for holy uſes, is called holy, as holy Sabbath, Nehe 9.14. holy Law, Rom. 7.12. holy place in Heaven, Pſal. 24.3. and holy place on Earth, Exodus 28.43. Mas. 24.15. and holy Temple. Ionah 2.4.

Yea, where God did but manifeſt his preſence, holy ground, Exo. 3.15. the Tabernacles, altars, and all the Veſſels holy, Exod. 40.4.10. and all that adminiſter them, and their garments holy, Exod. 29.21. and their offerings holy, the Paſchall Lamb, and the Lambe of Conſecration holy, Exod. 29.34. and the people holy, Deut. 7.6. and all theſe not by infuſing the grace of holineſſe, but onelyonly ſet apart for holy uſes, ſo then every man may not adminiſter thoſe holy things but onelyonly ſuch as are ſet apart to doe it; and ſecondly we ought to preſerve that holineſſe of ſeparation of all things ſo ſet apart for holy uſes. Thirdly, and this may ſhew us the horrible ſinne of thoſe that caſt aſperſions, either upon the Miniſtry, the Sabbath, the Ordinances, or place of Gods Worſhip: and chiefly in thoſe that make it a place of gaming and drinking, buying and ſelling; what? have you not houſes to eat and drink in; 1. Cor. 11.22. and hath not Chriſt p. 9whipt them out, Iohn 2.15, 16. then how dare they preſume to doe ſo again? but moſt abominable is it in thoſe that pull downe the Pulpit, and Pewes, to make ſtables for Horſes, and their dunghill at the dore? doe theſe men take heed to their feet when they go into the Temple of God, Eccle. 5.1. and reverence the Sanctuary, Lev. 19.30. certainly this is the abomination of deſolation in the holy place, Ma…. 24.15. theſe men doe not deſire to be a dore-keeper in the houſe of the Lord, rather then the Tents of the wicked, Pſal. 84.10. theſe men are not glad when they are invited to the houſe of the Lord, as David was, Pſal. 122.1. neither are they grieved that they cannot go with the multitude of thoſe that keep Holy day, Pſa. 42.4. neither are they grieved to ſee the Heathen enter into the Sanctuary and violently deſtroy the places of the Aſſembly, Lam. 1.10.26. nay, they are not ſenſible how that fire is caſt into the Sanctuary, which is like to burn up all the Synagogues of God in the Land, Pſa. 74.7, 8. if the Lord in mercy prevent it not.

But thoſe places for publike Worſhip were built by Papiſts for Idolatry, and God hath commanded to deſtroy the places of Idolatry; Deut. 12.2.

Anſ. Firſt, it cannot be proved that our Churches were built by Papiſts for Idolatry; for we had the Chriſtian faith before Antichriſt was in being, therefore the places of publike Worſhip alſo. Secondly, that command was to deſtroy all the inhabitants, with their houſes, goods and cattell, yea every thing that breathed, as well as the places of Idolatry, Deut. 13.15.16.20.16.17. which may teach us to loath the ſin, but not to puniſh ſo ſeverely, without a ſpeciall command as they had, which did not reach to other people, Deut 20.10. Secondly, that command was to deſtroy their name alſo, Deut. 12.3. but many Saints in the Apoſtles dayes were called after the names of their Idols, Rom. 16.1.14. Phil. 2.15. Titus 3.13.1. cor. 16.17. yet they did not deſtroy them, nor change their names. Thirdly, meat ſacrificed to Idols was as much polluted as the place, yet the meat may be eaten, asking no queſtion for Conſcience ſake, 1 Cor. 10.25, 26, 27. then why ſhould the place be deſtroyed? Fourthly, God commanded to deſtroy the remainder of the Paſchall Lamb, Ex…. 12.10. and the remainder of the Pan and Bread of Conſecration, Ex. 29.34. which may teach us to prize our Sacraments, yet not to burn the remainder of bread and wine after adminiſtration of the Lords ſupper. Fiftly, the Iews were bound to ſacrifice in one place, but now difference of place is taken away, Iohn 4.21. neither did Paul deſtroy the ſchole of Tyrannus, although a place of Idolatry and ſuperſtition, p. 10Acts 19.9.10. but preached the Goſpell there two years together with great ſucceſſe.

But you imploy theſe places to ſuperſtitious ſinging of Pſalms, which was only for ſingers appointed in the Temple of the Iewes.

Anſw. It is foretold, that in the times of the Goſpell they ſhall break forth into ſinging together Iſa. 52.9. Secondly, the Lord hath commanded all Lands to ſerve him with gladneſſe, and come before his preſence with ſinging, and into his Gates with thankſgiving, and into his Courts with praiſe, Pſal. 100.2.4. Thirdly, the Church as an Ecce to that command ſaith, O come let us ſing unto the Lord, let us make a joyfull noiſe to the rock of our ſalvation, let us come before his preſence with thankſgiving, and make a joyfull noiſe unto him with Pſalms, Pſal. 95.1, 2. Fourthly, the ſame parties that are here called upon to hear his voice and to kneele before him in prayer, are called upon to make a joyfull noiſe unto him with Pſalms, and alſo the ſame parties that did partake at the Lords table with Chriſt did ſing an Hymne, or a Pſalm in the margent, Mat. 26.30. therefore ſinging of Pſalm, is an Ordinance of God in the church, and ought to be read that all may ſing with the ſpirit, and with underſtanding alſo, 1. Cor. 14.15.

But your Pariſh Congregations were ſo bounded, either by Magiſtrates, or by the Prelates, therefore not to be joyn'd with, in the publique worſhip of God.

Anſw. If particular Churches had no bounds, they could not congregate together, as they are commanded Deut. 31.12. and as they frequently did in the new teſtament. Secondly, it would be a puniſhment, as bad as caſting out, to be bound to Congregate ſome ſcores of miles from their dwellings. Thirdly, there was bounds ſet to Congregations in the Apoſtles dayes, and that was to every Church, in every Town or village, as was ſhewed before, yea they were confin'd to a Sabboth days journey, Acts 1.2. that is ſo far as they might partake of the ordinances publickly in the Congregation, and perform privat duties at home the ſame day.

But although the Iews had their Synagogues in every City for publike worſhip, will it follow, that Chriſtians muſt be, ſo bounded now all difference of place is taken away?

Anſ. Chriſtian Magiſtrates as well as Iewiſh Magiſtrates, are required to compell all to come to the publike worſhip of God, Lu. 14.23. but they may not compell the people to things impoſſible. 2. Magiſtrates now are nurſing fathers to the Chriſtian churchs; therfore they ought to remove all inconveniences from the publike worſhip of p. 3God. 3. Church Officers are required to feed the Flock, and take care of the Flock, and to be examples to the Fiock, 1. Pet. 5.2.3. Pro. 27.23. Acts 20.28. but they could not doe theſe duties to them that live many miles aſſunder, ſo likewiſe many duties of the Members, one to another could not be performed, ſuch as mutuall love, and holy conferrence tending to edification and works of mercy, which could not be, if particular Churches had no bounds.

Objection, But your Pariſh congregations doe unavoidably admit of a mixed multitude to to partake in the publick worſhip of God.

Anſ. The like and much worſe is committed in thoſe gathered congregations being for the moſt part admitted more for money than for fitneſſe, as may eaſily be proved, 2. In all reaſon both the Officers and Members, yea and Magiſtrates alſo by their Lawes can better reform what is amiſſe both in Church and State amongſt thoſe that dwell near to them, than they can thoſe that live many miles diſtant from them. 3. Presbyterian Churches, if once they were erected their officers being appointed for it, would keep the Ordinances of Chriſt from pollution. 4. Presbyterians do receive none to the Lords Table without examination, and if any be unworthy it was the Prelates fault and not theirs, therefore this ſlander may more be retorted from whence it came.

Ob. But if to live in one of your Pariſhes will make a man a member of your Church, then a Turk may take a houſe in your Pariſh, and immediately be a Member of your Church.

Anſ. It will not follow, for he muſt be firſt baptiſed, and ſo admitted into the univerſall viſible Church, which includes all particular congregations, and gives him a right to partake in all publick Ordinances, in caſe his knowledge and life be approved of by the Elderſhip without any rebaptiſing, or any other covenant engaging whatſover, but this Priviledge no Turk can have by living in one of our Pariſhes, let him have never ſo much knowledge, or holineſſe, till he he ſeal'd his profeſſed obedience to to the Covenant of grace by Baptiſme.

Obj. But you ſtand ſo much upon Baptiſme, ſo that if a man be but baptiſed, though never ſo prophane, you hold him ſtill to be a member of your Church,

Anſ. It is true, for ſo he is, untill for his miſdemeanour he be judicially cut off, yea he is ſtill a member; while he is under the ſpirituall Phyſicians hands, although by ſuſpenſion he is diſabled for the preſent to act as a member, as as man ſick in his body or in priſon cannot uſe his p. 12freedome of the City, yet he ia a freeman ſtill for all that, therefore the Church officers ought to take care of their patient and comfort him, leſt Satan get advantage, and the man be ſwallrwed up of overmuch ſorrow, 2 Cor. 2.7.11. 2 Theſ 3.15,

Ob. But more is required to make members of a Church than Baptiſme to ſeal their profeſſed obedience to the covenant of grace, and the approbation of the Elderſhip to partake of the Lords Table, for they muſt engage themſelves to each other to walk in all the wayes of God.

Anſ. The covenant of grace being ſealed by Baptiſme, is ſufficient to bind them to walk in all the wayes of God. 2. This profeſſed obedience to that covenant is the onelyonly form of all Chriſtian Churches. 3^s That bond lies on all that have ſeal'd that covenant for ever. 4. To make any other engagement than what Chriſt hath made for admiſſion into the Church, is the direct mark of the beaſt, Revel. 13.16, 17.

Ob. But King Aſa and the people entred into a Covenant to ſeek the Lord, 2 Chron. 15.1. and the Prieſts and Levites ſealed ſuch a Covenant, Nehemiah 3.38 and its foretold that in the times of the Goſpel, men ſhall bind themſelves in a perpetuall Covenant, Ier. 50.5. and Paul was not ſuffered to join himſelf with the Diſciples till his engagement, Acts 9.26.27.30.

Anſ. 1. Concerning Paul the Diſciples, impoſed no engagement on him at all, onelyonly Barnabas declared his converſion, and how he preached boldly at Damaſcus in the name of the Lord Ieſus, and how he was with them at Ieruſalem, and how he had diſputed againſt the Grecians who went about to kill him; now when they knew this by Barnabas, they brought him down to Ceſarea, and fent him on their buſineſſe to Tarſus, onelyonly upon that report of Barnabas, without any of his engagement to them; and for thoſe other Covenants they were not for admiſſion of thoſe without the Church to bring them in, but of thoſe already in it, to walk more cloſely with God, according to the Covenant of grace, which they had ſealed before at their Circumſion, and often renewed at the Paſſeover, and for that Prophecy to bind themſelves in a perpetuall Covenant is either meant of thoſe without that ſhall come in, and ſeal the Covenant of grace, or elſe it is no more, but that Chriſtians ſhould do as the Iewes did before them, that is to bind themſelves to walk more cloſely with with God, which was done both at our Proteſtation, and at our ſolemne League and Covenant, yet theſe men reproach our Church and Miniſtry in which and by whom they ſay they will be converted.

p. 13But is your Presbyteriall Government of Divine inſtitution?

Anſ. Yes, for God hath ſet in his Church Governments, 1 Cor. 12.28. yea all the three perſons in Trinity had a hand in it, the father ſends forth labourers into the Harveſt, Mat. 9.38. and the Son gave ſome to be Apoſtles, ſome Paſtours and teachers, Epheſ. 4.11. and the holy Ghoſt made them overſeeers, Acts 20.28. and the Elders of Epheſus were thoſe overſeers, ver. 17. for the Apoſtles ordained Elders in every Church, Acts 14.23. and after their deceaſe, they left others to ordain in every City or Church, Titus 15. now theſe Elders were of two ſorts, firſt ſuch as were both rulers and teachers, for ſaith Paul obey them that have the rule over you, who alſo ſpeak unto you the word of God, Heb. 13.7, 17. thoſe Biſhops or overſeers muſt be apt alſo to teach, 1 Tim. 3.2, and there is alſo another ſort of Elders which onelyonly are rulers, but do not labour in the word and Doctrine, and if they rule well are worthy of double honour, but more eſpecially they that alſo both rule well and labour in the word and Doctrine, 1 Tim 5.17, now both theſe have rule over the Saints, Heb. 13.24. and worthy of this honour if they rule well, Rom 12.8.

But ſhall the Elderſhip judge, and determine of all matters in the congregation?

Anſ. Yes they are to judge of all matters, unleſſe in caſe of appeals to Claſſes and Synods; firſt, becauſe the Elders are charged to watch and keep the flock from the danger of wolves, Acts 20.28, 29, 30. 1. Pet. 5.13: 2. The ſtock for the poore is to be put into the hands of the Elderſhip, Acts 11, 29, 30. 3. The Keyes of the Church are to be committed to them for binding and looſing, Mat. 16.19. Iohn 20.23. 4. All controverſies in the Church are to be decided by them, for if brethren cannot do it, then ſaith Chriſt, tell the Church, Mat. 16.17, 18.

But ſhall the Elderſhip judge and determine who are fit to partake at the Lords Table, and keep them back who are not fit to partake of that Ordinance?

Anſ. Yes, for if they are to judge of all matters, then of this alſo. 2. Some were charged to keep the doore in the time of Adminiſtration. 1 Chron. 26.12. to 19. and ſome had the charge of the holy place, 2 Chron. 23.32.3. Some were blam'd for not putting a difference between the holy and prophane, Ezekiel 22.26.4. The younger ſort have in all ages and Churches been examined, and catechiſed, before admittance to the Lords table, that they may offer unto the Lord a pure offering. Mal. 1.11.

p. 6But after admittance to the Lords table ſhall any be deferr'd from that Ordinance before any crime is laid to his charge, or proved againſt him?

Anſ. No, for it were unjuſt to puniſh a man before he be proved to be guilty of ſome offence deſerving that puniſhment. Secondly, it would rend the Church in pieces to ſuſpend any communicants before they be charged with any offence deſerving i.t If the Elderſhip ſhall ſuſpend both the godly and ungodly before they be charged with any offence, and proceed to make a new admittance of thoſe allready admitted, the ſucceeding Elderſhip might do the like to thoſe that they have admitted, and ſo do and undo for ever. Fourthly, this would be a gathering Communicants out of Communicants, as bad as to gather a Church out of a Church, which is mere ſedition. Fifthly, to ſubpend all the Communicants at their firſt ſitting, under pretence to purge that Ordinance is the direct way to deſtroy it, becauſe no account can be given from what fellowſhip they are all ſuſpended, nor unto what fellowſhip they ſhall be admitted, in caſe their anſwers be approved, having no more Members left. Laſtly, this would be miſerable ingratitude to them, that in love chuſe them for their Elderſhips.

But thoſe admitted in the Prelates time, was under a falſe Governmet, having no Elderſhips then erected, the Paſtour doing it alone, either without no examination, or elſe very ſleightly, therefore that was no lawfull admittance.

Anſ. Our Paſtors? were then lawful Presbyters, having a lawfull call into the Miniſtry, yea if the Prelates would lay down their uſurpation over their brethren, and betake themſelves to feed one flock, they alſo are lawfull Miniſters having their Ordination by the Presbytery, yea in caſe of neceſſity, before the Elderſhip be erected, one miniſter may ordain another, thus Luther coming out of Rome might ordain other Miniſters, ſo before there was any Elderſhip in Crete, Paul ſaith I left Titus there to ordain Elders in every city, Titus 15. yea before the Elderſhip was erected, the Apoſtles did the office of ruling Elders and Deacons, receiving and keeping the treaſure of the Church, and diſtributing to every man according to his need, Acts 4.35. yet not ſo when thoſe other officers were choſen, Acts 6 2, 3.4, 5.11.3. as alſo the Paſtor is both a teaching and a ruling Elder, therefore thoſe admitted by him at that time was ſufficient, and to ſay it was done ſleightly, the like may be ſaid of what is done by the preſent Elderſhip by thoſe that ſhall ſucceed them. 2. I would know what examination thoſe three p. 15thouſand had which were admitted immediately after the hearing of Peters Sermon to both Sacraments, Acts 2.41, 42 ſhall we cavill at them becauſe it was done before the Elderſhip was erected? 3. The Communicants tenddring themſelves to their examination, ought not to be puniſhed for their Paſtours neglect. 4. Their godly life may ſatisfie for that ſlight admittance. Laſtly other Presbyterian churches will admit thoſe that have been commulnicants in other Churches, only upon a certificate from thence, & ſhal not we do ſo to thoſe whom we and many hundreds more were eye witneſſes that they were communicants, and as yet never any thing laid to their charge?

But Church Officers ought to know the ſtate of their flock, Prov. 27.23. and as faithfull Stewards give them no hurtfull thing, therefore they had need again to examine them before admiſſion.

Anſ. It is true they ought to know the ſtate of their flock by viſiting them from houſe to houſe, as in the Primitive church Acts 20.20. but this is not done at once by propounding to them two or three queſtions 2. If former admittance be not ſufficient, unles an exact knowledge of them, then by the ſame rule their ſucceeding Miniſter muſt alſo refuſe to diſpence that Ordinance till he hath the like exact knowledge of them. 3. by this argument the death or removall of their Paſtor or any of their Elderſhip, would prove an Excommunication of all the Congregation till that exact knowledge be obtained by them that ſucceed. 4. It is not the Paſtors fault if the ordinance prove hurtfull to them that have not ſaving grace, it being wholeſom food, and diſpenced to thoſe formerly admitted, and therefore have a true outward right unto it, and the inward is perfectly known to none but God and their own ſouls, hence I conclude that thoſe formerly admitted, and as yet never charged with any crime, upon the reprofeſſion to be faithful to their former Principles, may ſtill partake at the Lords Table without any further examination or any new admittance.

But Church officers are not onelyonly commanded to prepare themſelves, but their brethren, to keep the Paſſeover, 2 Chron. 35.6. therefore they ought again to be examined, and ſo admitted.

Anſ. That Text doth onelyonly charge the Prieſts to prepare their brethren the Levites to be ready to kill the Paſſeover; and beſides I ſpeak of thoſe already prepared and formerly admitted, that they ſhould not be ſuſpended before they be juſtly charged with ſome offence.

But it is no ſuſpenſion to admit them upon the goodnes of their anſwer.

Anſ. It is directly as they would deal with a Iew or a Turk, for upon the goodneſſe of their anſwer, and unblameableneſſe of their lives, they ſhall be admitted to both Sacraments, and no otherwiſe ſhall this man being a Chriſtian and a Church-member, and formerly admitted to the Lords Table, and as yet not charged with any offence whereby to caſt him out.

p. 16But they ought to anſwer every man that ſhall ask them a reaſon of their faith, much more to the Elderſhip, 1 Per. 3.15, 16. and he that cannot give ſuch an anſwer, although formerly admitted in the time of the Prelates, ought not ſtill to partake being found ignorant.

Anſ. It is not ſaid, anſwer every man, but be in readineſſe to do it, for every man hath not power to demand an account of our faith. 2. This account hath been already given, or at leaſt tendred, when they were firſt admitted 3. From this Text we are not to do it, unleſſe we will, till they ſpeak evill of us as of evil doers, and falſely accuſe our good converſation in Chriſt, and then alſo before thoſe that have power and authority to demand an account of our faith; and if ſcorners demand it, caſt no pearls before ſwine, reprove not a ſcorner leſt he hate thee, Pro. 3.8. If railing Rabſhakah ſhall ask why they truſt in the Lord, anſwer him not a word, Iſa 36.20, 21. 4. If the Elders in their viſitation find them ignorant, they ought rather to inſtruct them, than to accuſe and ſuſpend them, leſt they make others think that they come rather to accuſe than to edifie, to cut off rather than to heal a member. 5. To accuſe and ſuſpend thoſe they find ignorant after admiſſion, would make the Elderſhip contemned, and then what good can they do? 6. The moſt exacteſt Elderſhip may be overſeen to admit ſome that are igonrant in ſome things, although they may anſwer well in others. 7. The beſt Chriſtian under heaven is not at all times ready to give a direct anſwer to all points in Religion. 8. The Apoſtles themſelves were ignorant of ſome fundamental points of religion when they did receive the Sacrament with Ieſus Chriſt, as of his death, reſurrection and aſcenſior; Laſtly this Text requires an account of hope, but faith is of a larger extent, Thus I believe, that man at the firſt was made in the image of God, righteous and holy, and had then ſweet communion with God, but by ſinne he loſt that image of God, and that Communion alſo, and brought upon himſelf the curſe and wrath of God, and the condemning power of the Law, and all miſeries upon body and ſoul, name and ſtate, in this world, and thoſe unſufferable everlaſting torments in hell; and I believe that all the creatures in heaven and earth are not able to deliver us out of this condition; and I believe that the greateſt part of mankind are reprobates, and ſhall unavoidably ſuffer theſe torments; now this is part of the account of our faith, yet no account at all of our hope: ſo likewiſe I believe that Ieſus Chriſt the Sonne of God was conceived by the holy Ghoſt, born of the virgin Mary, ſuffered under Pontius Pilate, was dead and buried, and the third day he aroſe from the dead, and aſcended into heaven, now to put hope in this place, that Chriſt would do thoſe things, would deſtroy our faith, ſo dangerous it is to the Elderſhip to require an account of faith from unblameable communicants to debarre them from p. 17the Lords Table, till they have from them a ſecond admiſſion from this Text.

But Paul ſaith, let a man examine himſelf, and ſo let him eat, now he will do it partially, if left to himſelf, neither doth this Text exclude the Elderſhip.

Anſ. I am ſpeaking of thoſe examined already, or at leaſt tendred themſelves to it when they were admitted. 2. That ſelf examination is of the heart, whether Chriſt be in them, ſee 2 Cor. 13.5. which none but themſelves can do. 3. If this Text include the Elderſhip, they muſt examine them every time they come to that Ordinance. 4. The Elderſhip is onelyonly to examine thoſe that are not Communicants, that they may be Communicants unleſſe ſome great ſinne be laid to their Charge, which if proved may juſtly debarre them from that Ordinance, till reformation and ſatisfaction to the Church for it, now the younger ſort who never were yet at the Sacrament, will more freely anſwer before the grave Elderſhip, than before all the Congregation, and ſo will thoſe that are caſt out, that they may be admitted.

But is it ſufficient for the teaching Elder to ſow the ſeed of ſound Doctrine, and then to look no further after the growth of it in the hearts of his people?

Anſ. No, for the Teaching Elder, and the ruling Elders together ought to viſit their flock, and to labour to remove whatſoever will hinder the growth of it, as the husbandman doth, when he hath ſowed the ſeed, who when he ſeeth great ſtones lie upon it, will remove them, or great clods, then he will break them, or if water ſtand to drown it, he will let it out, or if the fence be broken, he will make it up; even ſo ſhould Church officers labour to remove all doubts and ſcruples, that may hinder their growth in grace, and alſo defend them from any that ſhall ſeduce them by error and prophaneneſſe, thus when Chriſt had preached publickly in the Temple, Iohn 18.20. Then privately he expounded all things unto them, Mark 4.10, 34. yea he went into his garden to ſee if the vine did flouriſh, or the pomgranats budded, which made the ſpouſe immediately to be as the Chariots of Aminadab, ſwift and comely, Cant. 6.11, 12. ſo alſo when Chriſt had ſent out his Apoſtles to preach, Mat. 10. he preſently ſent out ſeventy more to confirm their Doctrine, Luke 10. ſo when Paul had preached to them publickly, he then admoniſhed them privately from houſe to houſe, Acts 20.20. yea when any of the Apoſtles had preached publickly, they returned to confirm the ſouls of the Diſciples, Acts 14 21, 22.15.41. Paul plants and Apollo waters, 1 Cor. 3.5, 6. when Apollo went into Achaia, the brethren wrote unto the Diſciples to receive him, who when he was come helped them much that believed through grace, Acts 18.26, 27. ſo ſhould p. 18ruling Elders long to impart unto them ſome ſpirituall gift for their mutuall joy, Rom. 1.11, 12

But although Chriſt and his Apoſtles did ſo, will it follow that the miniſter and Elders ought now to do ſo?

Anſ. Yes, for what Chriſt and his Apoſtles did publickly in the Miniſtery was for other Miniſters imitation, and what they did privately was for all Chriſtians to follow, but eſpecially ruling Elders, who are appointed to aſſiſt them in Church government 2. All Chriſtians are bound to admoniſh one another in the faith, Heb. 10.25. Iud. 20. much more ought ruling Elders. 3. Some ought to warn the unruly, and to comfort the feeble minded, and ſupport the weak. 1 Theſ. 5.14.15. but neither equalls nor inferiors can do this. 4. It is the cuſtome of other Churches with whom we have engaged, that the officers ſhould viſit the flock, both for their protection and edification. 5. The Church hath many enemies, who ſeek to deſtroy it. Acts 20.29, 30. 1 Pet. 5.8. 2 Tim. 3.6. therefore ſome had need to defend it, and who ſo fit as ruling Elders who watch for their ſouls with the teaching Elder, as thoſe that muſt give an account for them? Heb. 13.7, 17. Laſtly, this viſiting them from houſe to houſe by mutuall conference will remove jealouſie of their pride, and increaſe knowledge and unity between them and the people.

But what if the Elderſhip ſhall find ſome who were formerly admitted to be both prophane and ſcandalous, ſhall they ſtill partake at the Lords Table?

Anſ. No, if they declare their ſinne as Sodom and hide it not, and their very countenance doth teſtifie againſt them, Iſa. 3.9. when the pride of Iſrael doth teſtifie to his face, that he doth not turn to the Lord his God, Hoſ. 7.10.5 5. Such need no further proof, if they paint the face as Ieſabel, 2 Kings 9.30, 35. or by ſetting ſuch ſpots on them which ſhews they are none of Gods people, Deur. 32.5. or by their naked breaſts, or if men do as it was faſly reported of David, ſhameleſſely uncover themſelves in the ſight of Maidſervants, 2 Sam. 6.20. or men hung about moſt vainly with ribbonds and points, or women in the harlots habit, Prov. 7, 10. their apparrell being ſtrange to all modeſty, God will deſtroy ſuch, although they be Princes children, Zephaniab 1.8.

But what if they in their viſiting find ſome men wearing long hair, and poundred locks, and women lay out their hair, ſhall ſuch come to the Lords table?

Anſ. No, not till Reformation, for ſuch people are ſo far from Grace, that they have almoſt ſinned out the very light of nature, for doth not even nature it ſelf teach, that if a man have long hair, it is a ſhame unto him? 1. Cor. 11.14. Secondly, when men are called to faſting and prayer, they are p. 19charged to cut off their hair, Jer. 7.29. and Iob did ſo when he fell on the ground and worſhipped, Iob 1.20. yea ſaith Paul, judge your ſelves, is it comely for a woman uncovered to joyn in publike prayer, or prophecying, or at the Lords Table? 1 Cor. 11.5.13.20. Thirdly, the Churches of God have no ſuch cuſtome, although ſome will be contentious, ver. 16. and, women ought to have power over their heads in the ſight of the angells' or Miniſters, ver. 10. let all things be done decently and in order, 1 Cor 14.40. Fourthly, long haire in men is the mark of Antichriſtian Locuſts, foretold to be in theſe days, who are enemies to Chriſt, for they have faces like Lyons, and hair like woman, Rev. 9.7. yea they imitate him, whoſe underſtanding and reaſon was departed from him, and the heart of a beaſt given to him, his hair grew like Eagles Fethers, & his nails like birds claws, Dan. 4. Fifthly, Such had rather leave the Sacrament, than cut off their hair, which ſhews that they have no true deſire to eat the Paſſeover as Chriſt had, Lu: 22.15. and women that ſo prize their hair, ſhew that they have not the hidden man of the heart, and that they are none of thoſe holy women who truſt in God, being Sarahs daughters, 1 Pet. 3.3, 4, 5, 6. when Mary was converted, ſhe wiped the feet of Chriſt with her haire, Luke 7.38. Laſtly, God hath puniſhed this pride in Men, eſpecially when Abſolom ſhall pretend to go pay his vowes at Hebron, glorying in his long hair, was hanged by the head that bore it, between the Earth and Heaven, 2 Sam 15 7. 2 Sam. 18.9, 10. and women for this pride inſtead of well ſet hair, ſhall have boldneſſe, Pſal. 3.24.

But by what rule ſhall we meaſure our hayre, and when is it too long?

Anſ. The hair is called the hair of the head, and not the haire of the ſhoulders, M…. 10.30. therefore it muſt be there confined; Ephraim had gray hairs, and he knew it not, Hoſea 7.9. Secondly, the face of man is his glory, and his eyes are his guide to perform all duties to God and Man, and to avoid evill, now if the hair cover any part of the face, it is to caſt ſhame upon his glory, and if it cover the eyes, it makes blind his guide, ſo that the man is in danger both to fall into the evill of ſinne, and the evil of puniſhment. Thirdly, it is moſt ſafe to be fartheſt from danger, now it is not ſhort haire, but long haire, that is both blamed and puniſhed. Fourthly, neither imitate erronious nor prophane perſons, for the one is an Antick in his attire, and the other toſſed about with every wind of doctrine, Ephe. 4.18. both like Ruben as unſtable as water, Gen. 49.4. but mark, the Godly man his heart is fixed, truſting in the Lord: Pſal. 112.7. and Sarie daughters will adorn their ſouls, and not plate their hair, eſpecially when they come to the Lords table.

But what if ſome after admittance ſhall be found Schiſmaticks or Hereticks ſhall they ſtill partake at the Lords table?

p. 20Anſ. No, for there muſt be no Schiſme in the body, 1 Cor. 12.25. Secondly, if an Heretick doe not reform after the firſt and ſecond admonition, he is to be rejected, that is, caſt out, Titus 2.29. Thirdly we have the example of Iohn the Baptiſt, who would not admit the Sects of Scribes and Phariſees to come to his baptiſme, Mat. 3.8, 9. much leſſe to the Lords Table. Fourthly, the leven of falſe doctrine muſt be purged out, Mat. 16.12. as well as the leven of prophaneneſſe, Cor. 5.7. 2 Cor. 2.5.6. for the one undermines the truth, and eats it out as a Gangreen, 2 Tim. 2.17, 18. and the other like Swine tread the holy things of God under feet, Ma. 7

But by theſe rules you admit ſome to the Lords table, which are prohibited by the Ordinance of Parlament, and keep back others, not prohibited by thoſe Ordinances.

Anſ. State-Officers ought not to judge and determine, what ſinnes are moſt ſcandalous to the Law of God and Religion, nor limit Church Officers in their cenſure, any more than Church Officers ought to judge and determine what is moſt offenſive, as a breach of the Law of the Land, nor to limit or direct the Iudge in his cenſure. Secondly, for State officers thus to limit Church Officers, is to rob them of that power that Chriſt hath given them; which is as bad as for Antichriſt a Church Officer, who preſumes to rob Princes of their State-power, which God had given them: For as Magiſtrates are placed by God in the State, and all mankinde are required to yeeld obedience unto them; ſo Church Officers are placed in the Church, and all ſorts of mankinde are required to yeeld obedience unto them.

But have Magiſtrates no power in the Church?

Anſ. No, their power is much about the Church, but not in it, they may command all to hear the word of God, when truly preached, Deut. 31.12. and they may proclame a Faſt, Jonah 3.7. 2 Chron. 20.3. and they may impoſe a Covenant to ſeek the Lord, 2 Chron. 15.8, 9. 34.31, 32.35.10.16. and they may puniſh thoſe that refuſe to obey God and the King, Ezra 7.23, 25.26. yea Kings ſhall be inſtrumentall to deſtroy Antichriſt, for Kings ſhall hate the Whore, and burn her fleſh with fire, and make her deſolate, Rev. 17.16. and the Magiſtrate is to be a guard to the Church, as the Shepherd to a Flock, Pſa. 49.23. therefore they ought to puniſh thoſe Lyons and Be ares, that would devour the Lambs and poyſon the Children, Pſa. 60.10, 12. Heathen Kings have made Lawes to puniſh thoſe that did abuſe the Idoll worſhip, Dan. 3.24.6.26. much more ought Chriſtian Magiſtrates to puniſh thoſe that abuſe the worſhip of the true God, and make rents in the Church of Chriſt; ſee 1 Kings 18.40.23.20. Iudges 6.3. yea ſaith Iob, Idolatry ought to be puniſhed by the Iudges, Iob 31.27, p. 2128. and evill doers ought to be puniſhed by the Magiſtrate, Rom. 13.4. 1 Pet. 2.14. but ſeducers are evill doers 2 Iohn 11. and Paul appeals to Caeſar where he ought to be judged, Acts 25.10, 11. which was for ſedition in the Church if they could have proved it; for they ſaid he was a mover of ſedition, and a ring-leader of the Sect of the Nazarers, Acts 24.5, 6. but they could not prove the things they did accuſe him of, verſe 13.

But what if a controverſie ariſe in the Congregation, that the Elderſhip cannot determine, ſhall they not appeale from the Church to the Parliament?

Anſ. No, for God hath provided another remedy to whom they ought to appeal, and that is to a greater Elderſhip, made up alſo of Miniſters and ruling Elders of ſeverall Congregations, being ſufficiently able to determin all controverſies, let them be what they will. As firſt, ſuppoſe the controverſie ſhall ariſe between the Paſtour and the people, there be many Paſtors and people of other Congregations to decide it. Secondly, if the controverſie ſhall be between two Congregations, there be many delegates from ſeverall Congregations to decide it. Thirdly, if half of the ſame Congregation ſhall divide againſt the other half, then neither of thoſe parties ſhall be their own Iudges, but it ſhall be referr'd to thoſe that will judge impartially, being related no more to the one than they are to the other. Fourthly, if the matter require haſt, becauſe of danger to the Church, they meet once a monethmonth, and oftner if any occaſion be…, this we call the Claſſicall Elderſhip. And laſtly, in caſe any matter ſhall not here be decided, they may appeal to the Provinciall or Nationall Synods, and there it ſhall be determined.

But how will it appear that there is any ſuch Churches, ſo govern'd by Synods?

Anſ. For ſuch names it is not materiall, we contend not about names, but the thing it ſelfe we ſhall find in Scripture; Firſt for Provinciall churches, we find that every Church in Aſia was made up of ſeverall Churches, in the ſecond and third Chapters of the Revelations. Now ſuch a Church w^ch comprehended many Churches in it, could not be one ſingle Congregation, made up of one Paſtor and his people; neither could theſe be Nationall Churches, becauſe at Epheſus which was a City, Acts 18, 28.19 and at Thyatira a City, Acts 16.14. the like may be ſaid of Corinth, there was many Congregations 1 Cor. 1.12.3.4. and all made up the Church at Corinth, 1 Cor. 1.2: alſo Corinth was a City, Acts 18.8, 10. theſe were provinciall Churches: Secondly, in Jeruſalem were more Chriſtians than could congregate together, three thouſand were added to that Church at one time, Acts 2.41, 47. and five thouſand at another, Acts 4.4. ſo that there were many th…and Believers in Ieruſalem, Acts 21.20. yea it was ſaid p. 22that all Ieruſalem were baptized of Iohn in Iordan, 3.5, 6, and yet they are called the Church at Ieruſalem, Acts 11.21: which could be no other but a Provinciall Church. Thirdly, there was in Ieruſalem many Miniſters, theer was the 12 Apoſtles and the 70, and others, then what Church would this be, having above a hundred Miniſters in it, this could not be a ſingle Congregation, neither could it be a Nationall Church, becauſe at Ieruſalem, the like may be ſaid of the Church at Antioch, there was many Prophets and ſome Apoſtles, Acts 11.26, 27. and yet the Church at Antioch, Acts 13.4. Fourthly, all that multitude of Chriſtians, yea I may ſay all thoſe Churches in Ieruſalem, for they had Elders choſen which are fixed Officers placed in every ſingle Congregation, and there confin'd, ſee Acts 14.23: yet all theſe Churches were govern'd by one common Presbytery, which ſome times ſate in Solomons porch, Acts 5.12, 13. and ſometimes in other places, for Paul came to Ieruſalem, and went in where the Elders were preſent, Acts 21.18. and ſo was every Church in Aſia containing Churches governed, and they blamed for every thing that was amiſſe in any of thoſe Churches, comprehended in that Church under that Government.

Now a Nationall Church is, that when God ſhall deal with any Nation as he did with the nation of the Iews, to make them his people in Covenant and give his Statutes, Sabbaths, and Sacraments, as he did to them Nehe. 9.13, 14, 15. Pſal. 147.19, 20. then that is a Nationall Church, as well as that of the Iews, but God hath given England and Scotland the Book of the Covenant, and Miniſters after his own heart, to ſhew us the meaning of it

And he hath given the Sabbath day, appointed for that end, and the Sacraments, whereby we have ſeal'd that Covenant, and alſo the Lord hath ſealed many of us with his ſpirit, therefore our Church is a nationall Church. 2. all our Congregations containing the whole Nation, are faſtened and ſemented together as Members of one body, and as branches of one Vine, by Claſſes and Synods, as all the Congregations in Iſrael made one Congregation, Pſa. 74.2, 4. therefore it is a Nationall Church, for it is not confin'd to a City or Province, or one Aſſembly under one Shepherd, but as that Vine brought out of Aegypt, and planted in Canaan, taking deep root, ſpred her boughs to the Sea, and her branches to the river, and ſo filled the land, Pſal. 80. and ſo we as well as they became a nationall Church. 3. It is foretold that nations ſhall come into the Chriſtian Church, Iſa. 2.2.61.1. to 11.66.18. and this we ſee fulfilled, for all the whole Nation are come in, and have ſealed the covenant of grace by Baptiſme, and all profeſſe our ſelves members of this Church, and there is as many living members in this Church, as in that nationall Church of the Iewes. 4. The Lord hath not as yet given us a Bill of Divorcement, but owns us p. 23ſtill for his Church, continuing his Miniſters, and his Ordinances with us, and his bleſſing upon them both, to convert thoſe that are not converted, and to ſtrengthen thoſe that are. We have ſeen thy goings O God in the Sanctuary, Pſa. 68.24. Laſtly theſe Churches have and do ſtill own this title, the Church of England, and the Church of Scotland; and all Chriſtian Churches do ſo approve of our Church, therefore it is a Nationall Church.

And the univerſall Church, I prove thus firſt all the Churches of Chriſt have one foundation, upon this rock will I build my Church, Mat. 16.18. and yet the builders are ſent into all Nations to build it, Mat. 28.19. and that upon this foundation, for other foundation can no man lay, than what is laid, which is Ieſus Chriſt, 1 Cor. 3.4. which ſhews that the Churches in all nations make up but this one Church. 2. Paul perſecuted the Chriſtians at Ieruſalem, and at Damacus, and in other ſtrange Cities, Acts 26.10.11. yet all theſe hee calls the Church of God, Gal. 1.13. 1 Cor. 15.9. which ſhews that the Church is univerſall. 3. Iewes and Gentiles which comprehend all Nations make but one Church, for ſaith Paul give no offence to Iewes nor Gentiles, nor to the Church of God, 1 Cor. 10.32. this cannot be meant a third ſort of people, becauſe there was no more, and this Church was made up of both, becauſe both are mentioned, therefore it is univerſall. 4. All the Churches of Chriſt make but one Church; for ſaith Paul, the Churches of Chriſt ſalute you, yea the whole Church ſaluteth you, Rom. 16.10.23. 5. All Miniſters are placed in one Church, 1 Cor. 12.28. which ſhews it to be univerſall. 6. All Churches have but one King, and governed by one Law, Iomes 4.12. therefore univerſall. 7. All Churches are called one body, one dove, one Queen. Epheſ. 44. 1 Cor. 12.12. Cant. 6.8. Laſtly, the doore of the Church is as wide as the Chriſtian world, for he that is admitted into one Church by Baptiſme, is admitted into all, and he that is cut off as Iulian was, is cut off from all Churches, therefore it is univerfall.

But how do you prove the Appeals of Churches, and of perſons in the Church.

Anſ. Firſt I will ſhew the appeals of perſons in the church for a private treſpaſſe, If thy brother ſhall treſpaſſe againſt thee ſaith Chriſt, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone, if he ſhall hear thee, thou haſt gained thy brother. But 2. if he will not hear thee, take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witneſſes every word may be eſtabiſhed; but 3. If he neglect to hear them, tell the Church, Mat. 18.15, 16, 17. that is the Elderſhip, for ſaith the Lord to Moſes. ſpeak unto all the congregation, then he called the Elders and ſpake unto them, Exodus 12.21. p. 24which are called the aſſembly of Elders diſtinct from the congregation, Pſa. 107.32. or the eſtate of the Elders, Acts 22.5. neither could any two or three Saints be this Church, for then the offendor and the offended brethren were this Church, but that they were not, nor one or two more, for it was the third gradation; neither was it the whole Congregation here ment, for then if any two or three doe but agree about binding & looſing, it ſhould be ratified in heaven, although all the reſt were againſt it. But laſtly, it is ment her Officers, who have the keyes of binding and looſing committed unto them, although but two Elders, and a Paſtor in that Elderſhip, yet if but two of them agree, being the major part of that Elderſhip, it ſhall be ratified in Heaven, Mat. 18.17.18.19. being the higheſt appeale in a particular Church.

In the next place, I wil ſhew by Scripture the Appeals of Churches the leſſer to the greater for publique offences, not one Congregation to another, nor one Claſſes to another, nor one Provinciall Synod to another, for ſo they are of equall authority; but a Congregation to a Claſſes made up of many repreſented, or a Claſſes to a Provinciall Synod being greater than that, and from thence to the Nationall Synod, being the greateſt power in the Nationall Church.

I begin with the firſt, and that is proved by all thoſe particular Churches in Syria and Cilicia, appealing to the Church at Antioch, being a Presbyteriall Church, having Apoſtles and extraordinary Prophets, and many Miniſters in it, who came as being all concern'd in the buſines, when ſeducers would have broched errors amongſt them, Acts 15.12. and there they had great diſputation with thoſe ſeducers, even the Apoſtles themſelves, who might have determined the buſineſſe there, but that it was to be a preſident for all Chriſtian Churches; therefore that Claſſicall Aſſembly at laſt, determined to ſend to the Synod at Ieruſalem, about that queſtion, ver. 2. and being brought on their way by the Church, that is, by ſome repreſenting the Church, ver. 3. and they were received of the Church, not as if all thoſe many thouſands of Beleevers came forth to receive them; but ſome of the Synod repreſenting them all, were ſent to receive them, ver. 4. and the Apoſtles and Elders came together not caſu ally, but on purpoſe, to conſider of that matter, ver. 6. thoſe Churches having referr'd themſelves to their finall determination, they did authoratively paſſe ſentence, and made decrees to be kept for all thoſe Churches, who did thus appeal, firſt to that Church at Antioch, and from thence to Ieruſalem, and they being fully ſatisfied, for having read the Epiſtle, they rejoyced for the conſolation, ver. 30.31. and ſo all theſe Churches of Syria and Cilicia were eſtabliſhed in the faith, ver. 41. Chap. 16.4.5.

But you give Claſſes and Synods abſolute power to impoſe there concluſions p. 25and determinations, on particular Churches, without any refuſing.

Anſ. It is true, that all particular Churches ought to refer themſelves, and that none ſhould be permitted to refuſe, yet we do not give Claſſes and Synods abſolute power over them, ſo as to impoſe on them what they pleaſe, nor at all to make laws for the Church, as the Parlament for the State, but only to gather out of Scripture a model of that diſcipline which Chriſt hath already made, and cauſe that and no other to be put in execution.

But Claſſes and Synods hinder obedience to that command of Chriſt, which is to try all things. 1 Theſ. 5.21. and make the Saints liberty leſſe than it was in the Apoſtles dayes, for then they might trie their Doctrines, Acts 17 11. yea they would be Lords over Gods heritage, which they ought not, 1 Pet. 5.3. and which no Counſell or Synod ſince the Apoſtles dayes ever had nor claimed, neither did Chriſt ever give it to them.

Anſ. Claſſes and Synods do but ſhew the abſolute power of Chriſt, and impoſe that only as neceſſary, without refuſing, they doe but gather up the ſeverall Lawes of Chriſt already made into a moddell, to be obſerved; which is not to be Lords over Gods heritage, nor challenge to themſelves a power which Chriſt never gave them, but rather to diſpence the mind of Chriſt to the People.

But Claſſes and Synods, makes a Paſtor to undertake more Churches than his own; and makes them lame that they cannot do their Office themſelves, and hinders matters from being tryed where they were committed, which doth occaſion Tyranny, and hinder Church-liberty, and put men into many intollerable temotations, as to wreſt the Scripture to a contrary ſence, and to ſtop the way of knowledg, by ſtinting mens gifts and abilities, and making men to build their obſervation and practice of divine Laws, upon humane principles and policies that will gender to bondage; therefore Chriſt will root it up as the Prelacy.

Anſ. Claſſes and Synods do not undertake more Churches than their own, unleſſe in caſe of appeal for their help, when as their own Elderſhip cannot do it, neither doth lending a hand make their own Officers lame, but rather ſupport them when they were ready to ſink under their burden; but if they can bear it themſelves, Claſſes and Synods will not hinder them but rather encourage them to doe it ſtill, which will free them of a great deale of trouble; neither are matters to be tryed where the offence was committed, but in places of Iudicatory, both in Church and State. And to ſpeak of Tyranny, all Sects are more guilty than Presbyterians, for their parties are their Iudges, without ſuffering any appeales from them, neither do Claſſes and Synods force men to wreſt Scripture, but rather take care to put out ſuch mechanick fellowes p. 26who cannot avoid it, for want of Learning. And it is rather a temptation to error and blaſphemy when ſuffered, than if ſuch were puniſhed for it; Neither doth Claſſes and Synods hinder mens gifts and abilities, but only rectifies them where to be imployed for more profit, and that is in their own families, by them neglected, while they preſume without warrant from the word of God, to meddle with other mens buſineſſe; Alſo they further a learned Miniſtry, which may teach the people knowledg, and only labour to prevent the blind from leading the blind into the ditch, neither is the diſcipline of Chriſt to be called humane principles and policies; nor is it bondage to be kept from error and blaſphemy, but rather perfect freedome; neither will the Lord root out Presbytery, as the Prelacy, becauſe ſome beleeve it, but rather their faith ſhall fail, being built on the Churches ruine, againſt which the gates of Hell ſhall not prevail, Mat. 16.18.

But may not Miniſters alone, ſometimes meet together to adviſe each other for the Churches good without Claſſes and Synods?

Anſ. Yes, but not with the like authority of Claſſes and Synods, yet I ſay they may meet to idviſe each other, and to prepare things for Claſſes and Synod, & to try the gifts and abilities of thoſe that are to be ordained, and alſo ordain them, Acts 1….23. 1 Tim. 4.14. and thus they met in Solomons porch, Acts 5.11, 12. And ſo did all the Miniſters in Corinth meet together for the Churches good, 1 Cor. 14.23.

But thoſe in Corinth were not all Miniſters, for the Text ſaith the whole church met together.

Anſ. There was none but Miniſters, for they all ſpake with tongues, 1 Cor. 14.23. but ſaith Paul, do all ſpeak with tongues? 1 Cor. 12.39. 2. They are called prophets ver. 29. But are all Prophets? 1 Cor. 12.29. 3. They did not come together to preach, but to diſpute, for they might all ſpeak what was revealed to them, ver. 30, 31. but all may not ſpeak in the church, let your women keep ſilence in the church, it is not permitted for them to ſpeak, nor men that are ignorant, ver. 32, 33, 36. 4. This command came onelyonly to Prophets, and to them aſſigned to ſpirituall imployment, ver. 37. therefore there was none but Miniſters at that meeting in Corinth, much like our Aſſembly of Miniſters at Weſtminſter, and ſometimes at Sion Colledge, yet I ſay not with the like power of Claſſes and Synods, to make decrees for the church, becauſe it is not fully repreſented for lack of ruling Elders.

But may none but Miniſters meet to ordain Miniſters?

Anſ. Although it ought, to be done in the congregatiou, yet none may actually do it but miniſters; firſt becauſe the Keyes of the church were given p. 27to them, Mat. 16.19. Iohn 20.23. 2. None durſt ever take upon them to ordain others that were not Miniſters themſelves. 3. when the people choſe Deacons, they brought them to the Apoſtles to be ordained, Acts 6.3. 4. Miniſters are directed how to do it, that is not by partiality preferring one before another, nor raſhly to lay hands ſuddenly on them, 1 Tim. 5, 11, 12. 5. Other men may not do it, becauſe they cannot try their gifts, which muſt firſt be proved, 1 Tim. 3.10.6. A Miniſter muſt not be confined to one place, he may uſe his office in any congregation, therefore univerſall Officers muſt ordain them into the Miniſtery who are not confined as Elders and Deacons, but ſuch as may preach in any church. 8. None but Miniſters may remove Miniſters to other Churches; the Lord ſaid to the Prophets at Antioch, ſeparate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have appointed them, and they laid their hands on them, and ſent them away, Acts 13.1, 2, 3. therefore none but Miniſters may ordain Miniſters.

But the houſe of Stephanus addicted themſelves to the Miniſtry, 1 Cor. 16.15.

Anſ. It is true they addicted themſelvs to it, that is, they had a good affection to it, and it may be they uſed means to attain learning, to make themſelves fit for it, but yet it will not follow that they did ordain or put themſelves into the Miniſtry.

But the Waldenſes, being caſt upon an Iſland, and not knowing what to do for Miniſters, made ſome of themſelves Miniſters.

Anſwer. All ſtories are not true, neither are all examples to be followed, eſpecially when they erre from the rule, which ſaith, how can he preach except he be ſent, Rom. 10.14. and again, let him be proved, 1 Tim. 3.10. and the Apoſtles ordained Elders in every Church, and after them they were ordained by other Miniſters, Titus 1.5. and then by the Presbytery aſſoon as it was erected, 1 Tim. 4.14.

But if the Waldenſes had not done ſo, they had been without Miniſters.

Anſw. It had been better to have been without then to have uſed unlawfulmeans to obtain them; for he that doth evil that good may come, his damnation is juſt, Rom. 3.9. 2. They ſhould have done as others did in the like caſe, when the Iewes returned out of Babylon, and had no Miniſters, they did not make Miniſters of other men, but ſent to Iddo and his brethren, deſiring them to ſend them Miniſters for the houſe of God, and the Text ſaith they brought us a man of underſtanding of the ſonnes of Levi, Ezra 8.15, 91.17, 18. 3. They need not ſay they ſhould have been without Miniſters, for the gates of hell ſhall not prevail to deſtroy either the Church or Miniſtry, neither ſhall they be unwilling to ſupply any place that truly deſires the Chriſtian p. 28faith; for when the Apoſtles heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they ſent them Peter and Iohn, Acts 8.14. and God that hath wrought theſe good deſires will perfect them to the day of Ieſus Chriſt, yea God will ſupply all their need according to his riches in Ieſus Chriſt, Phil. 4.19. Laſtly this pretence can be no better juſtified than that act of Vzza, who might have ſaid as well as they, if the Ark ſhould fall and break in pieces, what ſhall we do for the Ark, but God ſmote him to death for his errour, 2 Sam 6.67.

But if our miniſter be dead or removed, may we not chuſe another out of the congregation, as well as they choſe Deacons? Acts 6.

Anſ. No, for the Deacons office is confined in that congregation, ſo that if he remove he cannot take his office with him, but he that is placed in the Miniſtry takes his office with him, and he may exerciſe that office in another congregation without any more ordination. 2. I grant, that a member of the univerſall Church, and not a Turk or a Iew, who are not members of it, ought to be choſen into the Miniſtry. 3. The Scripture doth not ſay take a man of your particular congregation, and make your watchman; but take a man of your coaſts, and make your watchman, Ezekiel 33.2. and we chuſe our Miniſter from the Vniverſity, out of our Nationall church, although not out of our particular congregation, neither dare we to confine our choice into a narrower compaſſe than God hath allotted us.

But there is Superſtition uſed at your Ordination, which is by laying on of hands, which ceaſed with the Apoſtles.

Anſ. Where was a two-fold laying on of hands in the Apoſtles dayes, one of them belonged to the Apoſtles alone, at which ſign the holy Ghoſt was given, that is the gift of Tongues and Miracles, Paul laid on his hands, and they ſpake with tongues and propheſied, Act. 19.6. and he ſayd to Timothy ſtir up that gift that was given thee by laying on of my hands; 2 Tim. 1.6. Simon faw that on whomſoever the Apoſtles laid their hands the Holy Ghoſt was given; he ſaid give me this power alſo, Acts 8.18.19. now this power ceaſed with the Apoſtles, but then there was another laying on of hands, when any was fitted before for the Miniſtery, whether it was mediately or immediately it matter'd not, they ordained ſuch, that is, they approved of their fitneſſe, by that ſigne of laying on of their hands, ſee both theſe in one Text, 1. Tim. 4.14 There Paul ſaith, neglect not the gift that is given thee, by laying on of my hands; that is by miraculous qualifying and fitting him for the Miniſtery; and alſo by laying on of the hands of the Presbytery by ordination, approving of that ſitnes, this laſt is ſtill in uſe at this day in the Church, for the Apoſtles left others to ordain Elders in every City or Church at their deceaſe, Titus 1.5.

p. 29But is your office of Miniſtry peculiar to Miniſters?

Anſ. yes, Aaron and his ſonnes ſhall wait on the Prieſts office, Ex. 28.4 and ſaith Paul, the Lord put me into the Miniſtery, 2 Theſ. 1.12. I magnifie. mine office, Rom: 11.13. every Member hath not this office, neither may any ſay, I have no need of thee, nor one Member act in anothers office; if al were as one Member, where were the body? 1 Cor. 12. Secondly, Miniſters are Ambaſſadors, but if all were ſuch, to whom are they ſent? and they are Shepherds, but if all be ſuch, where is the Flock? and they are Stewards, but if all be Stewards, where is the family and houſhold of faith?

But may not men of other callings preach the word, and take the Paſtorall charge of a congregation without this ordination? David preached and propheſied, Pſal. 40.9. and Solomm is called the Preacher, Eccle. 1.1.

Anſ. It is true, ſo did women propheſie, 2. Chron. 34.22. Acts 21.9. yea women reveal'd Chriſt, Iohn 4.29. aud declared his Reſurrection, Luke 24.10.11.12. and yet they were not in the Miniſtery, for VVomen may not ſpeak in the Church, 1 Cor. 14.34. yea Angels declared the glad tidings of Chriſt, and alſo his Reſurrection, and call themſelves brethren to the Prophets, Luke 2.10.24.25. Revel. 22.9. yet they were not in the miniſtry. And for David and Solomon they preach as Penmen of Scripture to the great Congregation, the univerſall Church, but not as a Paſtor to his people. Secondly, Trades-men are placed by God, and charged there to abide with God, 1 Cor. 7.25. 3ly. they are forbidden to be buſie bodies in other mens matters, & charged to do their own buſineſſe, 1 Pet. 4.15. 1 Theſ. 4.11. Fourthly, God hath ſeverely puniſhed thoſe men of other callings, when they preſumed to meddle with the office of Miniſtry, 1 Sam. 6.19. 2 Sam. 6.7. Nom. 16.35. 21 Sam 26.16.19. 5ly. No man can diſcharge the Paſtors office and another calling, for who is ſufficient for it alone? 1 Cor. 1.16. Sixthly, the Apoſtles left their other callings, and gave themſelves only to the Miniſtry, Acts 6.4. and ſo did Chriſt himſelf the calling of a Carpenter, Mark 8.3. and refuſed the office of a King, and the office of a Iudg, Iohn 6.15. Luke 12.17. being anointed to preach the Goſpell, Luke 4.10. and knowing that Miniſters are forbidden to intangle themſelves with the affaires of this life, 2. Tim. 2.4. Seventhly, every calling is to be done in faith and love; but Trades-men cannot preach in Faith, having no warrant from the word of God, nor in love to profit the people, becauſe not ſent nor bleſt of God, who only teacheth to profit, … 48.19. Jer. 14.14.

But ſuppoſe a man be not placed in any other calling, may not hee take upon him the calling of the Miniſtery, without humane learning?

Anſ. No, for the meſſenger of the Lord muſt be an interpreter, Job 33.25. p. 30Secondly, he muſt not glory in another mans line, in things made ready to his hand, 2 Cor. 10.16. Thirdly, unlearned men wreſt the Scripture to their own deſtruction, 2 Pet. 3.16. Fourthly, Paul prayeth that they may ſpeake with tongues, and giveth thanks for that gift in himſelf, 1. Cor. 5.13.15. Fifthly, Miniſters muſt be watchmen to give warning of dangers approaching, Eze. 3. but unlearned men cannot give warning of errours written in Greek or Latin, by which the Gentry may be much corrupted, and the watchman ſee it not for want of learning. Sixthly the gift of tongues is placed in the Church, then chiefly in the miniſtery. Seventhly, if a Biſhop be a novice, he will fall into the condemnation of the Devill, 1 Tim. 3.8. Eighthly, both Chriſt and his Apoſtles, and all Miniſters in all ages had this gift of tongues, either immediately infuſed, or mediately taught in Schools, Mar. 6.2. John 7.15. Acts 2.4. Ninthly, Miniſters ought to eat the book and then propheſie, Eze: 33. Rev. 10.9.10.11. but they cannot read the book without ſome humane learning, Iſa. 29.12. Tenthly, ſaving grace alone is not ſufficient to make a Miniſter, for then women or children may be Miniſters, when as the one may not ſpeak in the Church, and the other cannot ſpeak at all, for both may have ſaving grace, yea a heathen without the pale of the Church, may have ſaving grace, yet unfit for the office of the miniſtry.

But the Apoſtles preached, before they had this gift of tongues.

Anſ. It is true, they preached to the Cityes in Iſrael, who ſpake the language in which the Old Teſtament was written, but they were charged not to goe among the Gentiles, Mat. 10.5.6.7. but we are Gentiles, and ſpeak not the Language wherein any part of the Scripture was firſt written, and alſo when the Apoſtles were to preach unto the Gentiles, they were charged to tarry at Ieruſalem, till they had the gift of tongues, Luke 24.49. yea the gift of tongues was a ſigne that the Gentile Preachers were truly called to the miniſtry, 1 Cor. 14.22. Marke 16.17.

But thoſe Scriptures that ſpeak of Biſhops qualification, ſay nothing of the gift of tongues 1 Tim. 3. Titus 1.6. to 9.

Anſ. Although the gift of tongues be not there ſet down, yet it is in other Scriptures, as hath been ſhewed. Secondly, if Miniſters ſhould make thoſe two texts their only pattern, and labour for thoſe qualifications only, and for no other, ſee what abſurdities will follow; Firſt, then they need not be able to read Engliſh, becauſe reading is not there mentioned, but then theſe things they muſt have, Firſt, a houſe of their own. Secondly, a wiſe. Thirdly, children. Fourthly, they muſt be faithfull. Fifthly, not accuſed of ryot. Sixthly, they muſt have a good report of thoſe without, and he that wants any of theſe, is unfit for the Miniſtry.

But who muſt chuſe the Miniſter?

p. 31Anſ. All have a right to chuſe him, in caſe he be already ordain'd, and ſo in the Miniſtry, unleſſe they be diſ-abled by a journey, or ſickneſſe, or infancy, or excommunication, or women that may not ſpeak in the Church, or ſervants who contribute not to his maintenance.

But what maintenance is the Miniſſer to have of the Congregation?

Anſ. A ſufficient certain maintenance, either by Tythes, or ſome other way; For Tythes were not altogether judiciall: Firſt, becauſe Abraham payed tythes before the Iudiciall Law was given, Ger. 14 20. and ſo did Iacob alſo, Gen. 28.22. Secondly, Tythes were not only to the Prieſthood of Aaron, but alſo to the Prieſthood of Melchiſedec which is an everlaſting Prieſthood, Heb. 73. 4.8.13. yea Levy himſelf paid tythes to this Prieſthood, verſ. 9. although he received tythes of the Iewes. Thirdly, whereas the Scribes and Phariſees paid tythe of Mint, Annis and Cummin, and omitted the weightier matters of the Law, as judgment, mercy and faith, now ſairth Chriſt unto them, theſe ought you to have done, and not to leave the other undone. Mat. 23.23. Luke, 11.42. therefore by the teſtimony of Chriſt, tythes are ſtill to be payed, but however Miniſters ought to have a ſufficient maintenance.

Firſt, becauſe the Iewiſh Prieſts had a ſufficiency allowed them, and ſaith Paul even ſo hath the Lord ordain'd for Miniſters of the Goſpel, 1 Cor. 9.14. Secondly, Miniſters muſt give themſelves wholly to the work of the Miniſtry, Acts 6.4. and may not intangle themſelves with the affairs of this life. 2 Tim. 2.4. therefore they had need to have a ſufficient maintenance. Thirdly, as it was the ſinne of Ieroboam to make the loweſt of the people Miniſters, ſo it is their ſinne to make thoſe in the Miniſtery to become the loweſt, for lack of ſufficient maintenance. Fourthly, it is very prejudiciall to the Peoples ſoules for their Miniſter to be forced to ſeek his own naturall food, when he ſhould be preparing food for their ſoules. Fifthly, Miniſters are at great charges for learning, to fit themſelves for the Miniſtry, and when they are fitted for it, yet many times it is long before they are placed in any benefice, and when they are placed in it, then it is but for their life, in caſe they enjoy it ſo long, and then all is gone from their wives and Children for ever, and ſometimes through the envy of evill men, they are quickly caſt out of all; and it may be never attain to another all their days; theſe things conſidered, Miniſters ought to have a ſufficient maintenance.

And alſo their maintenance ought to be certain, and not depend on the peoples courteſie; Firſt, becauſe all men have a certain rate for their work; and ſhall Miniſters only depend on peoples courteſies. Secondly, the Iewiſh Prieſts had a certaine maintenance; and ſaith Paul, even ſo hath the Lord p. 32ordained for the Miniſters of the Goſpell. 1 Cor. 9.13.14. Thirdly, Miniſters are hired Labourers, Luke 10.7. 1. Tim. 5.18. therefore they ought to know their wages, and alſo be certain of it. 4ly, Paul ſaith it is the peoples duty to miniſter unto them in carnall things, Rom. 15.27. now if it be a duty it is not upon courteſie, unleſſe they will hold themſelves bound in duty to give little or much, any thing or nothing, as they pleaſe themſelves.

But it is a ſinne to teach for hire, and to divine for money, Micah 3.11.

Anſw. Firſt it is true if they onelyonly ſought their own gain, and not at all the ſalvation of the people. 2. If they ſhould more ſeek their own gaine than the peoples ſalvation. But to ſeek maintenance, that they may ſubſiſt in ſeeking Gods glorie in their ſalvation, is moſt pleaſing to God, 2 Corinth. 12, 14, 15.

By Thomas Bakewell.

Jmprimatur,

Iohn Downame.

FINIS.

End of the text · Thomas Bakewell, A Brief Answer to Objections Against Presbyterianism (1650)