Defense and Justification of Tithes and Infant Baptism, Argument and answer 1 – Argument and answer 6
Anabaptiſts Anſw.
Firſt (you ſay) You have received ſome lines of my writing, which I ſent you upon the Eleventh of Novemb. and having weighed them in the ballance of the Sanctuary, you find them very light.
Mr. Bour… Reply.
To which I reply, Certainly you were miſtaken, it was not the Ballance of the Sanctuary in which you weighed my lines, for God requireth his people ſhould have juſt Ballances, and juſt weights, Levit. 19 36. He would have no other uſed in his Sanctuary; but this was ſome falſe Ballance of your own, or you borrowed it of ſome ſeduced Brother, who maketh uſe of divers weights and falſe deceitful balla…c…s (uſed by too many) both which are abomination to the Lord, Prov. 11.1. and 20.23. Hoſ. 12, 7. or otherwiſe you held the ſcales in a quaking hand, or your eyes were grown ſo darkned by a prejudicate opinion that you could not ſee which way the ſcale went, nor paſs a right, but a raſh judgement upon my lines, or according to the fleſh, which our Saviour reproveth, as you may read Joh. 8.15.
And Friends, did you weigh your own lines in the Ballance of the Sanctuary, before you ſent them to me? if you had, and had had ſpiritual eyes to ſee, and right ordered judgements to diſcern, certainly you might have found them wanting; yea, ſo light and weak of any true Scripture-proof, Eph. 4.20, 21.that they can move none (who have learned Chriſt, and been taught by him as the truth is in Jeſus) to ſeparate with you, or to refuſe our Reformed and Reforming Congregations (at leaſt) to hear the Doctrine of the Goſpel preached by us, who are the godly, lawful and faithful Miniſters of Jeſus Chriſt.
But let both our lines and writings be weighed in the Ballance of the Sanctuary: My lines I ſent to you, begin thus.
Mr. Bourns deſire.
November 11. 1658. or M. 11. D. 11.
John Darker, yeſterday I told you, that I had been divers times with you to have known your grounds of Separation from the publick preaching of the Goſpel by the faithful and godly Miniſters in our Congregations or publick meeting places. But you refuſed to joyn in reaſoning your ſelf, except I would joyn in a publick Diſputation, which I did refuſe.
The firſt Reaſon is, Becauſe I have formerly diſputed with thoſe we call Anabaptiſts, and with Nayler the Quaker, and have found I met with falſe reports of what had paſſed; my Adverſaries having many words without Reaſon, have reaſoned to no purpoſe but to confound the hearers, not to Chriſtian Edification as becometh Saints.
The Anabaptiſts Anſwer.
To which you anſwered, Now Sir, I pray you conſider what you have ſaid, if you judge that thoſe who you call (though falſely ſo ſtiled) Anabaptiſts, to be without Reaſon, why would you then reaſon with us in private? will a man in common ſence diſpute with one that is without Reaſon? For man being in honor and underſtands not, is like the beaſt that periſheth, Pſal. 49.20.
Mr. Bourns Reply.
To which I reply firſt, For the fault you find with me for calling you Anabaptiſts (though falſely ſo ſtiled, as your ignorance writeth) and it ſeemeth thinketh) had you but ſo much of that humane learning (which you ſentence to be a ſandy pillar, and a popiſh foundation) as to underſtand a little of the Greek, in which it pleaſed the Holy Ghoſt to have the New Teſtament written by the holy men of God, Ro. 15.4. 2 Tim. 3.16 2 Pet. 1.2….for our learning, you might have learned the better to have underſtood the name that is given you, Anabaptiſts. For thoſe that have learned by mans teaching, or their own induſtry, through the bleſſing of God, any meaſure of skill in the Greek tongue may tell you, … foreign in compoſitione valet foreign, rurſus, G. P. & Lex. & in N.T.that the prepoſition foreign in Greek when it is in compoſition, it is as much as rurſus in Latin, which in Engliſh ſignifieth agdin; and ſo an Anabaptiſt is one that is baptized again: And have not you, or many of you been baptized again, once in your infancy, and again in your mens eſtate? And ſo you are deceived, and delude your Diſciples to ſay you are falſly ſtiled Anabaptiſts; but bewail your ignorance that you had no more of humane Learning, that you might have the more eaſily underſtood by the help of the holy Spirit that Divine learning which is revealed in the holy Scripture written in the Greek and the Hebrew tongue.
Anabaptiſts Anſw.
Secondly, You ſay, If I judge you to be without reaſon, why would I reaſon with you in private?My Reply is,
Mr. Bourns Reply.
That it was the deſire of the holy Apoſtle Paul to his Chriſtian Theſſalonians, 2 Theſſ. 3.1, 2. That they would pray for him and Silvanus, and Timothy, not onelyonly that the word of the Lord might have free courſe and be glorified, but, that they might be delivered from unreaſonable and wicked men, for all men have not faith: …nd truly that is my deſire alſo, the rather, becauſe I have met with ſuch unreaſonable men already, and and have ſome ground of ſuſpition I may meet with ſuch again; for I believe there are ſuch in the world now, as well as there were in the Apoſtles days; and if all of your Separation be not ſuch, yet ſome of you may: There was one Judas amongſt the twelve Apoſtles, whom Chriſt calls Devil, Joh. 6.70.
Anabaptiſts Anſ.
But why would I diſpute with ſuch in private, ſay you.
Mr. Bourne Reply.
Firſt, My Reply is, That it was with you John Darker, with whom I would have argued out of the holy Scripture in private, and for that end deſired you would call for a Bible, becauſe I hoped if there was not that right ſpiritual Reaſon in you to judge of ſpiritual things ſpiritually, yet you was capable of right Reaſon, by the grace of G…d, and ſo by giving you ſpiritual reaſons o… of the Book of God, you might be convinced of your Error, and be brought by Gods bleſſing to ſee the light of Truth revealed in the Scripture of Truth for your edification.
And now you proceed and diſcover an uncharitable and unchriſtian ſpirit, A defence of the Scriptures printed for John. Wright. 1650.comparing me to Popiſh Dr. Story, as if I caſt away the Scriptures, when I had ſent one of you my Defence of the Scriptures, in my Diſputation with James Nayler, which you approved of. And alſo my greater light from Chriſt, in which I declare the holy duplicate page duplicate page Scriptures to be the moſt perfect Rule of Faith and Life: A light from Chriſt leading to Chriſt; printed for John Wright 1646.And in my paper I now ſent you, I deſired you would bring your Arguments out of the holy Scriptures, therefore you could not charge me with taking away the Scripture. And your finding fault with me and reverend Mr. Baxter, becauſe we bring Reaſon for proof, as if Scripture-Reaſon were unlawful, I paſs over as not worthy a larger Anſwer.
I gave you a ſecond Reaſon, why I was unwilling of a publick Diſputation, eſpecially with ſuch as you are; Becauſe commonly in publike Diſputations weak Beleevers are admitted, unable to diſcern the ſtrength of Arguments, or mind of the Holy Ghoſt in Scriptures alledged; and to receive ſuch is contrary to the Apoſtles direction, Rom. 14.1. Him that is weak in the Faith receive, but not to doubtful Diſputations. Beſides, there are ſeveral Diſputations in print already enough to ſatisfie. Yet if you John Darker would write your Arguments drawn out of the holy Scriptures to prove what you affirmed yeſterday (as I apprehended you) That the godly preaching Miniſters in England are all Antichriſtian, and our Reformed and Reforming Churches, Babylon, and to be departed from, and our preaching not to be heard, with your hand, and the hand of your cheif Teacher, I ſhould, God willing, give you my Anſwer; And to this I ſubſcribed my name,
Immanuel B…urne.
For your wreſting and miſrepreſenting my words, and opprobrious terms you give me, and falſe conſequences you put upon me, I have learned not to give reviling ſpeeches for reviling; But I may tell you, That you raiſe a falſe poſition like a man of ſtraw, and then you will father it on me, and fight againſt me for it, when it is a Baſtard of your own begetting: I pardon this alſo.
The Anabaptiſts Anſwer.
Then you proceed in a mageſterial way, and with a high vapour. But Sir (ſay you) we muſt let you underſtand that thoſe foundation-Principles of the Church of God (which we ſuppoſe you well know) would have been the matter of our diſcourſe, hath Scripture as clear to prove them as the Sun at noon day, without the help of your conſequences or illuſtrations, (and you ſet down divers of your grounds or foundation-principles) as that God made the Heaven and the earth, Gen. 1.1. That all men are ſinners, Rom. 3.23. That God made men upright, Eccleſ. 7.29. That God ſent his Son to ſave ſinners, 1 Tim. 1.15. The Reſurrection from the dead, Joh. 5.29.
Mr. Bourns Reply.
For Reply, Theſe are plain Truths, and full proof without conſequence; But theſe Truths are not in controverſie between us: But now you come to ſhuffle in matters of controverſie amongſt the reſt, like a man that mingles corrupt wares among good, the more eaſily to ſell them, and deceive the people; As it follows in your Anſwer.
The Anabaptiſts Anſwer.
If I would diſpute (ſay you) that the ſubjects of baptiſm are men and women, and Repentance and Faith go before to fit them for it, it is clear without dubiouſneſs, Act. 8.12.37. and 2.38.
And you further tell me, The Ana∣baptiſts Grounds of Separa∣tion. That to ſatisfie my deſire to know the grounds of your Separation, and why you look upon us as none of the Church of Chriſt or Miniſters of the Goſpel, for which in the whole you give three Reaſons.
Firſt, Reaſon 1 Becauſe as you conceive, we frame not our Church of right materials, that is, as you explain your ſelf, not of men and women of riper years converted, but of Infant children, who can make no profeſſion of Faith or Repentance.
Secondly, Reaſon 2 A ſecond ground is, Becauſe as you dream, we walk in parallel with thoſe the Scripture ſpeaketh of, who make merchandiſe of the word of God, for which you name divers places of Scripture, Micah 3.11. Ezek. 22 26, &c. Jer. 5.30, 31. and 23.14, 15. Phil. 3.18. All which you wreſt and moſt falſly apply to the godly, faithful Miniſters of Chriſt in England, which moſt truly may be applied to your ſelves, as I have proved at full and made ready to have ſent you, though now I ſhall not trouble the Preſs with it, being nothing but your falſ Quaking ſcandal, and the like, to be retorted upon you, which I conceive is unchriſtian like.
Reaſon 3
Your third Reaſon or Ground of Separation is, Becauſe (as your opinion is) our Church ſtandeth upon theſe four ſandy Pillars, or Popiſh foundations.
Four ſandy Pillars
1. Humane Learning.
2. (Say you) Baptizing (as you call it) but Rantizing, or rather couſening of Babes in their cradles; take away that (ſay you) and you would have no Church.
3. Your Tythes, or forced Maintenance, the wages of unrighteouſneſs (ſay you) after which you all run aſtray, take away that, and preach who will.
4. The Magiſtrates ſword which the Priests have run to in many Generations; take away that (ſay you) which hath ever been the fundamental of your livelihood, and then you would be in danger of ſtarving amongſt them whom you call Chriſtians.