Letter of Ministers Requesting Judgment Concerning Nine Positions, Positions 3,4 · Reply 7 – Reply 8
Reply.
THis concluſion is not to the queſtion propounded, for we ſpeake of ſuch as cannot, not of ſuch as refuſe to joyne themſelves unto the Church; or if they do not joyne, it is not out of contempt or wilfull neglect of Gods ordinance, or deſire of carnall libertie, and not to be in ſubjection to Chriſt, but for lacke of opportunitie, or through their fault that ſhould admit them but do not. For if in any of your Churches you ſhall require more of members to be admitted then Chriſt the chiefe Shepherd of the flock doth, or preſſe that upon their conſciences which they cannot conſent unto, if they ſhall ſit downe quietly for the time and ſerve God in private, when they cannot injoy Church priviledges, it is your fault and not theirs. And they may more juſtly challenge the Aſſemblie as injurious and tyrannicall, then you them as wilfull deſpiſers of Gods ordinance. We accuſe not the wiſedome and diſcretion of your Chuches, but we know the zealous multitude may ſometimes be raſh; And when a reaſon is craved of your judgement, why you do debarre the moſt knowne and approved Chriſtians which come over, and their children from the ſeals of the covenant, we diſlike you ſhould put this note upon them, as if againſt light they refuſed orderly to ſubject themſelves to the Goſpel of Jeſus Chriſt: What warrant you have thus to cenſure, what uſe of this manner of diſpute we leave it to your godly wiſedome to judge. In the Conſideration it ſelf there are many Propoſitions couched together, which we muſt examine ſeverally as they have reference to the concluſion intended, and then try whether it can be raiſed from them.
The firſt Propoſition, That none have power to diſpence the Seales, but they that are called to the office of Miniſtery, is freely granted.
The ſecond, That no man can be ſo called till firſt there be a Church to call him, needeth explication. For by the Church you muſt underſtand the community of the faithfull, as they are one bodie, without officers or guides. And ſuch a Church there cannot be without a Miniſtery to call and admit them into Church-fellowſhip. The Apoſtles baptiſed not themſelves, but by the help of others, & thoſe not called of the people to be baptiſed, 1 Cor. 1. 17. The Apoſtles appointed by electiō, Elders in every city or Church. And ſo there was a Church before Elders were ſet over it, but this Church was a ſocietie of beleevers by baptiſme admitted into Church-fellowſhip. There can be no Church to call a Miniſter to feed the flock, and diſpence the ſeals, till they have received the doctrine of ſalvation intirely, and by the ſeale of initiation be ſolemnly received into the ſocietie of men profeſſing Chriſt. A company of men converted to the faith being unbaptized, may and ought to deſire baptiſme, but they have not power to elect and chuſe one among themſelves to diſpence the ſeales unto the reſt for ought is to be found in Scripture: The Churches conſtitution into which Chriſtians are to gather themſelves muſt be Apoſtolicall, and Rob. againſt Bern. likely veiwed. p. 40.not one day or houre younger in nature and forme of it, thus the firſt Church of the New Teſtament. But it can never be ſhewed in Scripture that any ſocietie of unbaptiſed perſons did firſt chuſe from among them a Paſtor or Teacher by whom they might be baptiſed: you cannot produce one example or other proofe in the Scripture, of one man teaching the Goſpel miniſterially but he was baptiſed, and a member of a true Church, or of a ſocietie who made choice of a Paſtor and teacher, but they were baptiſed perſons.
The third Propoſition, That the power of calling Miniſters is given by Chriſt unto the Church, muſt alſo be rightly underſtood: For by the Church muſt be meant the ſocietie of the faithfull, not onelyonly ingrafted into Chriſt, ſet into the ſtate of ſalvation, and made heires apparent of everlaſting bleſſedneſſe, but ſolemnly entred and inrolled into the ſocietie of Chriſts flock, and acknowledged members by free admiſſion into the Seales of the Covenant. Againe, by the Church if we ſpeake of ordinary calling, muſt not be underſtood of the faithfull alone, but their guides and officers together with them, who are to goe before the reſt, and to direct and governe them in their choice. Neither can we ſay, that any two or three beleevers linked together in ſocietie doe make ſuch a Church, as to whom the calling of the Miniſter doth belong: but that right was given by Chriſt to ſuch Churches as were gathered and eſtabliſhed by the Apoſtles. The Church hath a Miniſtery of calling one whom Chriſt hath deſcribed, that from Chriſt he may have power of Office given him in the vacant place. But the office, gift, and power of the Miniſtery, is immediately from Chriſt and not from the Church. The Church doth neither virtually nor formally give power to her Officers but miniſterially onelyonly, as miniſtring to him who hath power and vertue to conferre it. And this right of election is ſo given to the communitie and body of the people, that if they have conſented to give away their right, or if it be taken injuriouſly from them, the calling of the Miniſter notwithſtanding may be true, and miniſteriall acts done by him that is thruſt upon the people without their conſent may be effectuall to their ſalvation. A wrong it is altogether to debarre the godly of their conſent in the calling of ſuch as muſt watch for their ſoules; but it makes not the calling it ſelfe a meere nullitie; for then many Churches in the world within a few hundred yeares after Chriſt ſhould have wanted both miniſtery and Sacraments, and they would have been altogether deſtitute of both miniſtery and Sacraments for many hundred yeares.
The fourth, That all thoſe who deſire to partake in the Seales, are bound to joyne themſelves together in Church-ſtate, that ſo they may call a Miniſter to diſpence the Seales unto them, will not follow from the former rightly underſtood. We deny not but Chriſtians are bound to joyne themſelves together in holy fellowſhip, if God give them opportunitie: but they muſt partake in the Seales before they can joyne themſelves together in Church-ſtate. And ſuch as for lack of meanes and opportunitie cannot joyne themſelves into ſuch an eſtate, or be diſperſed by perſecution, or be deſtitute of Paſtors and Teachers, may for a time deſire and ſeek to have the ſeales diſpenced unto them by the Paſtors and Teachers of other Societies, with whom they hold communion in the faith. The people alſo who are deprived of right and libertie to chooſe their Paſtor, may deſire and ſeek to have the Seales diſpenced unto them by him who is ſet over them. If a company of Infidells ſhould be converted to the faith, they muſt deſire to partake in the ordinances of grace before they could joyne together in a Church-way to call a Miniſter of their own, who might adminiſter the Sacraments unto them. To make Diſciples and baptize are joyned together. And if theſe Propoſitions be allowed for current, a nation or people John 4. 2. Math. 28. 19.plunged into Idolatry or Infidelitie, or otherwiſe diſchurched, cannot by ordinary meanes recover into a Church-eſtate, wherein they may lawfully and according to Gods appointment deſire or expect that the Seales of the Covenant ſhould be diſpenced to them.
The fifth Propoſition riſeth beyond meaſure, that no Chriſtian can expect by the appointment of God to partake in the Seales till he have joyned himſelfe in Church-fellowſhip and the calling of the Miniſter. Wee conceive you will not ſay that children and women have to doe in the call of the Miniſter (for women they are debarred by their ſex as from ordinary Propheſying, ſo 1 Cor. 14. 34, 35. Tit. 2. 11, 12. Rob. ag. Ber. pa. 206.from any other dealing wherein they take authority over the man) If ſome part of the Congregation doe not conſent in the election of Paſtors or Teachers, have they not right to expect to have the Seales of the Covenant diſpenced to themſelves or their ſeede? If the people be deprived of that libertie to chooſe or call their Miniſter, muſt they ſeperate from the ordinances of worſhip there diſpenced, and from the Congregations as no true Churches? If ſome perſons by the providence of God live in ſuch places where they cannot joyne in Church-fellowſhip and call of the Miniſter (as ſuppoſe the Chriſtian wife, childe, or ſervant) nor lawfully remove to any ſuch Societie muſt they and their children live as ſtrangers and aliens from the Covenant of grace, wherein they may not expect to partake of the Seales▪ If Infidels be converted to the faith, muſt they not partake in the Seales, becauſe they cannot joyne in Church-fellowſhip and call of the Miniſter, before they be admitted to Baptiſme?
Here you ſay the people muſt joyne together in the call of the Miniſter, before they can lawfully deſire to be admitted to the Seales. And another Rob. ag. Bern. pa. 239.hath zealouſly affirmed (It is a preſumptuous ſin in any to chooſe an Officer not trained up and tryed (ſcil.) in the debating, diſcuſſing, carrying, and contriving of Church-affaires, as alſo in admonition, exhortation, and comfort, publickly occaſioned and ſo manifeſted) Lay theſe two together, and let it be conſidered how long many a poore ſoule converted to the faith muſt be compelled to want the comfort of Gods ordinances. Beſides, if a people be joyned together in Church-fellowſhip, and have called a Paſtor to feed and watch over them, wee deſire (not words but) proofe why the poore diſperſed Chriſtians wanting means or opportunitie to joyn themſelves together into ſocietie, ought not to deſire, and that others be not bound in conſcience to afford them the comfort of Gods ordinances.
If the Propoſitions may ſtand for good, I feare we ſhall ſcarce finde that ever in ordinary way, the Sacraments were lawfully diſpenced or received in the Chriſtian Churches of God ſince the firſt foundation of them. Now the premiſes being liable to ſo many exceptions, the concluſion to be laid upon them, will fall of it ſelfe. And thereunto wee oppoſe the direct contrary. That Infidels converted to the faith, or godly Chriſtians, formerly viſible beleevers, knowne and approved members of Congregations profeſſing the intire faith, and joyning together in the lawfull uſe of the Sacraments for ſubſtance according to the Inſtitution, may and ought to deſire and expect the Seales of the Covenant to be diſpenced to them, and to their ſeede, though for the preſent they be not joyned into ſuch Church-ſtate and call of Miniſters as you require.
Anſwer 7. Conſideration.
THat our practiſe may not be cenſured as novell and ſingular, give us leave to produce a Preſident of the like care obſerved and approved by publick countenance of State in the dayes of Edward 6. of bleſſed and famous memory, who in the yeare 1550. granted Johannes Alaſco a learned Noble man of Poland under the great Seale of England, libertie to gather a Church of ſtrangers in London, and to order themſelves according as they ſhould finde to be moſt agreeable to the Scriptures. Among other godly orders eſtabliſhed in that Church, that which concerned the Adminiſtration of Baptiſme to prevent the prophanation of it we will repeate in Alaſcoes owne words. Baptiſme in our Church (ſaith he) is adminiſtred in the publique Aſſembly of the Church after the publique Sermon: for ſeeing Baptiſme doth ſo belong to the whole Church that none ought to be driven thence, which is a member of the Church, nor to be admitted to it who is not a member of it, truely it is equall that that ſhould be performed publiquely in the Aſſembly of the whole Church, which belongs to the whole Church in common. Againe, he addeth; Now ſeeing our Churches are by Gods bleſſing ſo eſtabliſhed by the Kings Majeſtie, that they may be as it were one pariſh of ſtrangers diſperſed throughout the whole Citie, or one body corporate (as it is called in the Kings grant) and yet all ſtrangers doe not joyne themſelves to our Church, yea there are thoſe who while they avoyde all Churches, will pretend to the Engliſh Churches that they are joyned with us, and to us that they are joyned to the Engliſh Churches, and ſo doe abuſe both them and us, leſt the Engliſh Churches and the Miniſters thereof ſhould be deceived by the impoſtures of ſuch men (and that under colour of our Churches) wee doe baptize their Infants alone who have adjoyned themſelves to our Churches by publique confeſſion of their faith, and obſervation of Eccleſiaſticall diſcipline. And that our Churches may be certaine that the Infants that are to be baptized are their ſeede, who have joyned themſelves thereto in manner aforeſaid, the father of the Infant to be baptized (it poſſible he can) or other men and women of notable credit in the Church, doe offer the Infant to Baptiſme, and doe publickly profeſſe that it is the ſeede of the Church, yet wee ſuffer no ſtranger to offer Infants to Baptiſme in our Churches, who hath not made publique profeſſion of his faith, and willingly ſubmitted himſelfe to the Diſcipline of the Church, leſt otherwiſe they who preſent their children to Baptiſme, might in time plead that they belong to our Churches, and ſo ſhould deceive the Engliſh Churches and their Miniſters. To thoſe which preſented Infants to Baptiſme, they propounded three queſtions, the firſt was; Are theſe Infants which yee offer the ſeed of this Church, that they may lawfully be here baptized by our Miniſtery? &c. Anſwer, Yea. This Inſtance is the more to be regarded, becauſe Alaſco affirmeth in the preface of that Book, that this libertie was by the King granted to them out of his deſire to ſettle alike reformation in the Engliſh Churches, which in effect you ſee the ſame with our practiſe in this particular.
Reply.
THe practiſe of the Church of ſtrangers in London, recorded by John Alaſco, is farre different from your judgement and practiſe, not in ſome by-circumſtances, but in the maine point in queſtion; for your judgement is that true viſible beleevers, baptized and partakers of the Lords Supper in other Churches not yet gathered into Church-eſtate or fellowſhip, have no right or intereſt in the Seales, (they nor their ſeede) But this Church of ſtrangers held no ſuch opinion as their own words (which you have omitted) doe plainly ſpeake. And Paul teſtifyeth (ſay they) that by Chriſts Ordinance the Church it ſelfe without exception of any member of it, is to be accounted cleane or holy by the miniſtery of Baptiſme. Whence we may eaſily ſee, that Baptiſme doth neither belong to thoſe who are altogether without the Church, nor to be denyed to any member of the Church. Secondly, They held communion with the Church of England as one and the ſame with theirs. For ſo they profeſſe: Yet nevertheleſſe, that we may openly ſhew that the Engliſh Churches and ours are one and the ſame Church (though we differ ſomewhat from them both in language and Ceremonies) We doe not refuſe that the Engliſh may as publick witneſſes of the Church offer the Infants of our members to Baptiſme in our Churches, if they have both the uſe of our language and a certain teſtimony of their piety. As in like manner our members are accuſtomed to offer the Infants of the Engliſh to Baptiſme in the Engliſh Churches. If your judgement be this of the Engliſh Churches, your judgement in acknowledging us members of true Churches, and practiſe in debarring viſible beleevers and their ſeede from the Seales, are oppoſite the one to the other. Thirdly, This order was obſerved by them to prevent the impoſtures of ſome, who whilſt they avoyded all Churches, pretended to the Engliſh, that they were joyned to the ſtrangers, and to the ſtrangers that they were joyned to the Engliſh. But you debarre knowne Chriſtians who deſire to joyne themſelves with you, not to prevent impoſtures of them who avoyde all Churches: yea, you debarre them as men having no right to the Sacraments, becauſe they be not in Church-fellowſhip: and herein you can ſhew no preſident ancient or moderne, either from Scripture or Monuments of the Church: And as your practiſe is without example, ſo without warrant from the word of God. And this is the maine reaſon why we cannot conſent unto you in this particular which we thus propound.