The Grand Debate Between Bishops and Presbyterian Divines, Document 2 · Reply 8 – Section 11
Reply. The deſire of your hearts is the grief of our hearts, the Conceptions of Prayer by a publick perſon, according to a publick Rule, for a publick uſe, are not to be rejected as private Conceptions: We had hoped you had deſigned no ſuch innovation as this in the Church: When we have heard any ſay that it would come to this, and that you deſigned the ſuppreſſion of the free Prayers of Miniſters in the Pulpit, ſuited to the varietie of ſubjects and occaſions, we have rebuked them as uncharitable in paſſing ſo heavie a cenſure on you: And what would have been ſaid of us a year ago, if we ſhould have ſaid that this was in your hearts? nothing will more alienate the hearts of many holy prudent perſons from the Common-Prayer, than to perceive that it is framed and uſed as an Inſtrument to ſhut out all other Prayers, as the Miniſters private Conceptions. Such an end and deſign will make it under the notion of a means, another thing than elſe it would be, and afford men ſuch an Argument againſt it, as we deſire them not to have: but we hope you ſpeak not the publick ſenſe. As the Apoſtles deſired (as aforeſaid) that all would ſpeak the ſame things, without giving them (that ever was proved) a form of words to ſpeak them in, ſo might we propoſe to you, that uncertain opinions be made no part of our Liturgie without putting all their words into their mouths, in which their deſires muſt be uttered. Your heartie deſire, and the reaſon of it, makes not only againſt extemporarie Prayer, but all prepared, or written forms, or Liturgies, that were indited only by one man, and have not the conſent antecedently of others. And do you think this was the courſe of the Primitive times? Baſil thus uſed his private Conceptions at Caeſarea, and Greg. Thaumaturgus before him at Neoceſarea, and all Paſtors in Juſtin Martyrs and Tertullians daies. And how injurious is it to the publick Officers of Chriſt, the Biſhops and Paſtors of the Churches, to be called private men, who are publick perſons in the Church, if they be not? every ſingle perſon is not a private perſon, elſe Kings and Judges would be ſo. And have you not better means to ſhut out private opinions, than the forbidding Miniſters praying in the Pulpit, according to the varietie of ſubjects and occaſions: You have firſt the Examination of perſons to be ordained, and may ſee that they be able to ſpeak ſenſe, and fit to mannage their proper works with judgement and diſcretion, before you ordain them; And ſome confidence may be put in a man in his proper calling and work, to which he is admitted with ſo great care, as we hope (or deſire) you will admit them; If you are neceſſitated to admit ſome few that are injudicious, or unmeet, we beſeech you (not only to reſtore the many hundred worthy men laid by, to a capacity, but that you will not ſo diſhonour the whole Church, as to ſuppoſe all ſuch, and to uſe all as ſuch, but reſtrain thoſe that deſerve reſtraint, and not all others for their ſakes: And next you have a publick Rule (the Holy Scripture) for theſe men to pray by, and if any of them be intollerably guiltie of weakneſſes or raſhneſs, or other miſcarriages, the words being ſpoken in publick, you have witneſſe enow, and ſure there is power enough in Magiſtrates and Biſhops to puniſh them, and if they prove incorrigible, to caſt them out. In all other profeſſions theſe means are thought ſufficient to regulate the Profeſſors, His Majeſtie thinks it enough to regulate his Judges, that he may chooſe able men, and fit to be truſted in their proper work, and that they are reſponſible for all their maladminiſtrations, without preſcribing them forms, beyond which they may not ſpeak any thing in their Charge. Phyſitians being firſt tried, and reſponſible for their doings, are conſtantly truſted with the lives of high and low, without tying them to give no counſel, or medicine, but by the preſcript of a Book, or determination of a Colledge: And it is ſo undeniable, that your reaſon makes more againſt Preaching, and for only reading Homilies, as that we muſt like it the worſe, if not fear what will become of Preaching alſo. For 1. It is known that in Preaching a man hath far greater opportunity, and liberty to vent a falſe or private opinion, than in Prayer. 2. It is known de eventu, that it is much more ordinary. And if you ſay [that he ſpeaks not the words of the Church, but his own, nor unto God, but man, and therefore it is leſs matter.] We anſwer, it is as conſiderable, if not much more, from whom he ſpeaks, than to whom, he ſpeaks as the Miniſter of Chriſt, in his ſtead and name, 2 Cor. 5. 19, 20. And it is as a higher, ſo a more Reverend thing to ſpeak in Gods name to the people, than in the peoples name to God; and to ſpeak that which we call Gods word, or truth, or meſſage, than that which we call but our own deſire: We make God a lyer, or corrupt in his words, if we ſpeak a falſhood in his name; we make but our ſelves lyers, if we ſpeak a falſhood to him in our own names; The former therefore is the more heynous and dreadfull abuſe, and more to be avoided: or if but equally, it ſhews the tendency of your reaſon, (for we will not ſay of your deſign, as hoping you intend not to make us Ruſſians) We do therefore for the ſake of the poor threatened Church, beſeech you that you will be pleaſed to repent of theſe deſires, and not to proſecute them, conſidering that to avoid a leſſer evil (avoidable by ſafer means) you will bring a far greater evil on the Churches, and ſuch as is like to ſtrip theſe Nations of the glory in which they have excelled the reſt of the world, even a learned, able, holy Miniſtry, and a people ſincere, and ſerious, and underſtanding in the matters of their Salvation. For 1. As it is well known that an ignorant man may read a Prayer and Homily as diſtinctly and laudably as a Learned Divine, and ſo may do the work of a Miniſter, if this be it; ſo it is known that mans nature is ſo addicted to eaſe and ſenſual diverſions, as that multitudes will make no better preparations, when they find that no more is neceſſary, when they are as capable of their places and maintenance if they can but read, and are forced upon no exerciſe of their parts, which may detect and ſhame their ignorance, but the ſame words are to be read by the ableſt and ignoranteſt man; it is certain that this will make multitudes idle in their Academical Studies, and multitudes to ſpend their time idly all the year, in the courſe of their Miniſtry: and when they have no neceſſity that they are ſenſible of, of diligent ſtudies, it will let looſe their fleſhly voluptuous inclinations, and they will ſpend their time in ſports, and drinking, and prating, and idleneſſe, and this will be a Seminary of Luſt: or they will follow the world, and drown themſelves in Covetouſneſſe and Ambition, and their hearts will be like their ſtudies: As its the way to have a holy, able Miniſtry, to engage them to holy ſtudies, to meditate on Gods Law day and night, ſo its the way to have an ignorant, prophane and ſcandalous Miniſtry (and conſequently Enemies to ſerious Godlineſſe in others) to impoſe upon them but ſuch a work, as in ignorance and idleneſſe, they may perform as well as the judicious and the diligent. If it be ſaid [that their parts may be tried and exerciſed ſome other way] we anſwer, where ſhould a Miniſters parts be exerciſed, if not in the Pulpit, or the Church, and in Catechiſing, in private Baptiſm, and Communion, and in the viſitation of the ſick? their work alſo is ſuch as a School-boy may do as well as they, their ignorance having the ſame Cloak, as in publick. If it be ſaid [that a Miniſters work is not to ſhew his parts] we anſwer, but his Miniſterial work is, to ſhew men their ſins, and to preach the wonderfull Myſteries of the Goſpel, to help men to ſearch, and underſtand the Scriptures, and to ſearch, and to know their hearts, and to know God in Chriſt, and to hope for the glory that is to be revealed: and fervently to pray for the ſucceſſe of his endeavours, and the bleſſings of the Goſpel on the people, and chearfully to praiſe God for his various benefits, which cannot be well done without abilities. A Phyſitians work is not to ſhew his parts ultimately, but it is to do that for the cure of diſeaſes which without parts he cannot do, and in the exerciſe of his parts, on which the iſſue much depends, to ſave mens lives. The oſtentation of his good works, is not the work of a good Chriſtian: and yet he muſt ſo let his light ſhine before men, that they may ſee his good works, and glorifie God. And undeniable experience tells us, that God ordinarily proportioneth the ſucceſſe and bleſſing, to the skill, and holineſſe and diligence of the Inſtruments, and bleſſeth not the labours of ignorant, ungodly Drones, as he doth the labours of able faithfull Miniſters. And alſo that the readieſt way to bring the Goſpel into contempt into the world, and cauſe all religion to dwindle away into formality firſt, and then to barbariſm and brutiſhneſſe, is to let in an ignorant, idle, vicious Miniſtry, that will become the peoples ſcorn: Yea, this is the way to extirpate Chriſtianity out of any Country in the world, which is decaying a pace when men grow ignorant of the nature and reaſons of it, and unexperienced in its power and delightfull fruits, and when the Teachers themſelves grow unable to defend it. And we muſt add, that whatſoever can be expected duly to affect the heart, muſt keep the intellect, and all the faculties awake in diligent attention, and exerciſe: And in the uſe of a form, which we have frequently heard and read, the faculties are not ſo neceſſitated and urged to attention, and ſerious exerciſe, as they be when from our own underſtanding we are ſet about the natural work of repreſenting to others what we diſcern and feel. Mans mind is naturally ſloathfull, and will take its eaſe, and remit its ſeriouſneſſe longer than it is urged by neceſſity, or drawn out by delight, when we know before-hand, that we have no more to do, but read a Prayer, or Homilie, we ſhall ordinarily be in danger of letting our mindes go another way, and think of other matters, and be ſenceleſs of the work in hand. Though he is but an Hypocrite that is carried on by no greater motive than mans obſervation, and approbation; yet is it a help not to be depiſed, when even a neceſſity of avoiding juſt ſhame with men, ſhall neceſſarily awake our invention, and all our faculties to the work, and be a concurrent help with ſpiritual motives. And common experience tells us, that the beſt are apt to loſe a great deal of their affection, by the conſtant uſe of the ſame words or forms; Let the ſame Sermon be preached an hundred times over, and trie whether an hundred for one will not be much leſs moved by it, than they were at firſt. It is not only the common corruption of our nature, but ſomewhat of innocent infirmity that is the cauſe of this. And man muſt ceaſe to be man, or to be mortal, before it will be otherwiſe; ſo that the nature of the thing, and the common experience of our own diſpoſitions, and of the effect on others, aſſureth us, that underſtanding ſerious Godlineſs, is like to be extinguiſhed, if only forms be allowed in the Church, on pretence of extinguiſhing errors and diviſions: And though we have concurred to offer you our more corrected Nepenthes, yet muſt we before God and men, proteſt againſt the doſe of Opium which you here preſcribe or wiſh for, as that which plainly tendeth to cure the diſeaſe by the extinguiſhing of life, and to unite us all in a dead Religion. And when the Prayers that avail muſt be effectual and ſervent, Jam. 5. 16. and God will be worſhipped in ſpirit and truth, and more regardeth the frame of the heart, than the comelineſs of expreſſion; we have no reaſon to be taken with any thing that pretends to help the tongue, while we are ſure it ordinarily hurts the heart: And it is not the affirmations of any men in the world, perſwading us of the harmleſneſs of ſuch a courſe that can ſo far un-man us, as to make us diſ-believe both our own experience, and common obſervation of the effect on others. Yet we confeſs that ſome forms have their laudable uſe, to cure that error and vice, that lieth on the other extreme. And might we but ſometimes have the liberty to interpoſe ſuch words as are needful to call home and quicken attention and affection, we ſhould think that a convenient conjunction of both, might be a well tempered means to the common conſtitutions of moſt. But ſtill we ſee the world will run into extreams, what ever be ſaid or done to hinder it. It is but lately that we were put to it, againſt one extreme, to defend the lawfulneſs of a form of Liturgie; now the other extreme it troubleth us, that we are forced againſt you, even ſuch as you, to defend the uſe of ſuch Prayers of the Paſtors of the Churches, as are neceſſarily varied according to ſubjects and occaſions, while you would have no Prayer at all in the Church, but ſuch preſcribed forms. And why may we not add, that whoever maketh the forms impoſed on us, if he uſe them, is guilty as well as we of praying according to his private conceptions? And that we never ſaid it proved from Scripture, that Chriſt appointed any to ſuch an Office, as to make Prayers for other Paſtors and Churches to offer up to God: and that this being none of the work of the Apoſtolick, or common Miniſterial Office in the Primitive Church, is no work of any Office of Divine Inſtitution.
[To that part of the Propoſal, that the Prayers may conſiſt of nothing Sect. 3.doubtful, or queſtioned by pious, learned, and orthodox perſons; they not determining who be thoſe orthodox Perſons, we muſt either take all them for orthodox Perſons, who ſhall confidently affirm themſelves to be ſuch, and then we ſay; Firſt, The Demand is unreaſonable, for ſome ſuch as call themſelves orthodox, have queſtioned the prime Article of our Creed, even the Divinity of the Son of God, and yet there is no reaſon we ſhould part with our Creed for that. Beſides, the Propoſal requires impoſſiblity, for there never was, nor is, nor can be ſuch Prayers made, as have not been, nor will be queſtioned by ſome who call themſelves, pious, learned, and orthodox: if by orthodox be meant thoſe who adhere to Scripture, and the Catholick Conſent of Antiquity, we do not yet know that any part of our Liturgy hath been queſtioned by ſuch.]
Reply. And may we not thus mention orthodox Perſons to men that profeſs they agree with us in Doctrinals, unleſs we digreſs to tell you who they be? What if we were pleading for civil Concord among all that are loyal to the King, muſt we needs digreſs to tell you who are loyal? We are agreed in one Rule of Faith, in one Holy Scripture, and one Creed, and differ not (you ſay) about the Doctrinal part of the 39. Art. And will not all this ſeem to tell you who are Orthodox. If you are reſolved to make all that a matter of Contention, which we deſire to make a means of Peace, there is no remedy while you have the Ball before you, and have the Wind and Sun, and the power of contending without controll. But we perceive, [That the Catholick conſent of Antiquity] muſt go into your definition of the Orthodox, but how hard it is to get a reconciling determination, what Ages ſhall go with you, and us, for the true Antiquity, and what is neceſſary to that conſent that muſt be called Catholick, is unknown to none but the unexperienced. And indeed we think a man that ſearcheth the holy Scripture, and ſincerely and unreſervedly gives up his Soul to underſtand, love and obey it, may be Orthodox, without the knowledge of Church-Hiſtory; we know no univerſal Law-giver, nor Law to the Church, but one, and that Law is the ſufficient rule of Faith, and conſequently the teſt of the truly Orthodox, though we refuſe not Church-Hiſtory, or other means that may help us to underſtand it. And to acquaint you with what you do not know, we our ſelves (after many Paſtors of the Reformed Churches) do queſtion your Liturgie, as far as is expreſſed in our Papers: And we profeſs [to adhere to Scripture, and the Catholick Conſent of Antiquity] (as deſcribed by Vincentius Linienſis) If you will ſay, that our Pretence and Claim is unjuſt, we call for your Authority to judge our Hearts, or depoſe us from the number of the Orthodox, or elſe for your proofs to make good your Accuſation. But however you judge, we rejoice in the expectation of the righteous Judgment, that ſhall finally decide the Controverſie; to which, from this Aſpertion, we appeal.
[To thoſe Generals, loading Publick Form with Ch. pomp, garm. Imagery, Sect. 4.and many Superfluities that creep into the Church under the name of Order and Decency, incumbring Churches with Superfluities, over ridgid reviving of obſolete Cuſtomes, &c. We ſay, that if theſe Generals be intended as applyable to our Liturgy in particular, they are groſs and foul Slanders, contrary to their Profeſſion, page ult. and ſo either that or this contrary to their Conſcience, if not, they ſignifie nothing to the preſent buſineſs, and ſo might with more prudence and candor have been omitted.]
Reply. You needed not go a fiſhing for our Charge; what we had to ſay againſt the Liturgie, which we now deſired you to obſerve, was here plainly laid before you; Anſwer to this, and ſuppoſe us not to ſay, what we do not, to make your ſelves matter of reproaching us with groſs and foul ſlanders. Only we pray you anſwer Mr. Hales, as Mr. Hales, (whom we took to be a Perſon of much eſteem with you), eſpecially that paſſage of his which you take no notice of, as not being ſo eaſie to be anſwered, for the weight and ſtrength which it carries with it; viz. That the li mitting of the Church Communion to things of doubtful diſputation, hath been in all Ages the ground of Schiſm and Separation, and that he that ſeparates from ſuſpected Opinions is not the Separatiſt. And may we not cite ſuch words of one that we thought you honored, and would hear without contradicting our Profeſſion, of not intending depravation or reproach againſt the Book without going againſt our conſciences? If we cite the words of an Author for a particular uſe (as to perſwade you of the evil of laying the Churches Unity upon unneceſſary things) muſt we be reſponſible therefore for all that you can ſay againſt his words in other reſpects? we ſuppoſe you would be loath your words ſhould have ſuch interpretations, and that you ſhould be under ſuch a Law for all your Citations; do as you would be done by.
[It was the wiſdome of our Reformers to draw up ſuch a Liturgy as Sect. 2.neither Romaniſt, nor Proteſtant could juſtly excopt againſt, and therefore as the firſt never charged it with any poſitive errors, but only the want of ſomething they conceived neceſſary: ſo it was never found fault with by thoſe to whom the name of Proteſtants moſt properly belongs, thoſe that profeſs the Auguſtine Confeſſion: and for thoſe who unlawfully and ſinfully brought it into diſlike with ſome people to urge the preſent Stave of Affaires, as an Argument why the Booke ſhould be altered, to give them ſatisfaction, and ſo that they ſhould take advantage by their own unwarrantable Acts, is not reaſonable.]
Reply. If it be blameleſs, no man can juſtly except againſt it; But that de facto the Romaniſts never charged it with any poſitive errors, is an Aſſertion that maketh them reformed, and reconcilable to us, beyond all belief: Is not the very uſing it in our own Tongue a poſitive error in their account? Is it no poſitive error in the Papiſts account, that we profeſs [to receive theſe Creatures of Bread and Wine?] do they think we have no poſitive error in our Catechiſm about the Sacraments, that affirmeth it to be Bread and Wine after the Conſecration, and makes but two Sacraments neceſſary? &c.] 2. And unleſs we were nearlier agreed than we are, it ſeemeth to us no commendation of a Liturgie, that the Papiſts charge it with no poſitive error. 3. That no Divines, or private men at home, or of Foreign Churches [that ever found fault with the Liturgie, are ſuch to whom the name of Proteſtant properly belongeth] is an aſſertion that proveth not what authoritie of judgeing your Brethren you have, but what you aſſume, and commendeth your Charitie no more than it commendeth the Papiſts, that they denie us to be Catholicks. Calvin and Bucer ſubſcribed the Augustine Confeſſion, and ſo have others that have found fault with our Liturgie. 4. If any of us have blamed it to the people, it is but with ſuch a ſort of blame, as we have here expreſt againſt it to your ſelves; And whether it be [unlawfull, and ſinfull] the impartial comparing of your words with ours, will help the willing Reader to diſcern. But if we prove indeed that it is [defective and faultie, that you bring for an Offering to God] when you or your Neighbours have a better, which you will not bring, nor ſuffer them that would (Mal. 1. 13.) and that you call evil good in juſtifying its blemiſhes, which in humble modeſtie we beſought you to amend, or excuſe us from offering, then God will better judge of the unlawfull act than you have done. But you have not proved, that all, or moſt of us, have cauſed the people at all to diſlike it; if any of us have, yet weigh our Argument, though from the preſent ſtate of affairs: or, if you will not hear us, we beſeech you hear the many Miniſters in England, that never medled againſt the Liturgie, and the many moderate Epiſcopal Divines that have uſed it, and can do ſtill, and yet would earneſtly entreat you to alter it, partly becauſe of what in it needs alteration, and partly in reſpect to the Commodity of others; Or at leaſt we beſeech you recant, and obliterate ſuch paſſages as would hinder all your ſelves from any act of Reformation hereabout, that if any man among you would find fault with ſome of the groſſer things, which we laid open to you (tenderly and ſpiringly) and would reform them: he may not preſently forfeit the reputation of being a Proteſtant: And laſtly, we beſeech you denie not again the name of Proteſtants to the Primate of Ireland, the Archbiſhop of York, and the many others that had divers meetings for the Reformation of the Liturgy, and who drew up that Catalogue of faults, or points, that needed mending, which is yet to be ſeeu in print; they took not advantage of their own unwarrantable Acts for the attempting of that alteration.
[The third and fourth Propoſals may go together, the demand in N. 3, 4.both being againſt Reſponſals, and alternate Readings, in Hymns and Pſalmes, and Letany, &c. And that upon ſuch Reaſon as doth in truth enforce the neceſſity of continuing them as they are, namely, for edification. They would take theſe away, becauſe they do not edifie, and upon that very reaſon they ſhould continue, becauſe they do edifie: If not by informing of our reaſons and underſtandings, (the Prayers and Hymns were never made for a Catechiſm) yet by quickening, continuing, and uniting our devotion, which is apt to freeze, or ſleep, or flat in a long continued Prayer, or form; it is neceſſary therefore for the edifying of us therein, to be often called upon and awakened by frequent Amens, to be excited and ſtirred up by mutual exultations, provocations, petitions, holy contentions and ſtrivings, which ſhall moſt ſhew his own, and ſtir up others zeal to the glory of God. For this purpoſe alternate Reading, Repetitions and Reſponſals, are far better than a long tedious Prayer: Nor is this our opinion only, but the Socrat. 1. 6. cap. 8. Theodor. 1. 2. c. 24. 2 Chron. 7. 1, 4. Ezra 3. 11.Judgement of former Ages, as appears by the practice of ancient Chriſtian Churches, and of the Jewes alſo. But it ſeems they ſay to be againſt the Scripture, wherein the Minister is appointed for the People in publick Prayers, the peoples part being to attend with ſilence, and to declare their aſſent in the cloze, by ſaying Amen; if they mean that the people in publick Services muſt only ſay this word Amen, as they can no more prove it in Scriptures, ſo it doth certainly ſeem to them, that it cannot be proved; for they directly practiſe the contrary in one of their principal parts of Worſhip, ſinging of Pſalms, where the people bear as great a part as the Miniſter. If this way be done in Hopkin's, why not in David's Pſlams? if in Meetre, why not in Proſe? if in a Pſalm, why not in a Letany?]