Five Disputations of Church Government, Chapter 8
CHAP. VIII. The greatness of their sin that are now labouring to perswade the People of the Nullity of our Ministry, Churches and administrations.
Even those Protestant Churches that have Superintendents are unchurched by them too, for want of a true Ordination. For their Superintendents were commonly ordained by meer Presbyters, or settled only by the Princes power. So in Denmark, when their seven Bishops were deposed, seven Presbyters were Ordained Superintendents by Iohan. Bugenhagius Pomeranus a Presbyter of Wittenberge in the Presence of the King and Senate at the chief Church in Haffnia: See Vit. Bugenhagii in Melch. Ad…m. vit. Germ. Theolog. page 315.Sect. 1. HAving laid so fair a ground for my application, I think it my duty to take the freedom to tell those Reverend persons that oppose us in this point, the Reasons why I dare not joyn with them, and the guilt that I am perswaded they heap upon their own souls; Wherein I protest it is not mine intent to make them odious, or cast disgrace upon them (for I do with great reluctancy obey my Conscience in the performance of this task:) but my intent is, if it be the will of God to give success so far to these endeavours, 1. To humble them for their great and hainous sin and save them from it; 2. And to save the Church from the divisions and disturbances that is already caused by them and their opinion; 3. However to discharge my Conscience and tell them plainly, what frightneth me from their way.
Sect. 2. And 1. It seems to me (upon the grounds before expressed) that those men that would Nullifie all the Protestant Ministry, Churches and administrations, that have not Prelates, are guilty of schism, and are plain Separatists. They depart from truly Catholick principles. That man hath not the just Principles and Spirit of a Catholick, that can on such a pretence as this degrade or nullifie so many Learned, Godly Ministers, and unchurch so many excellent Churches of Christ; they make a plain Schism, and separate from us on as weak grounds as the ancient Separatists did, whom yet they account an odious generation. And the writings of Paget, Ball, Bradshaw, Hildersham, Bernard, and the rest that defend our Ministry and Churches against the old Separatists, will serve in the main to defend them against these new ones, which therefore I refer the Reader to peruse. Many of the same Arguments are as forcible against this adversary.
Sect. 3. 2. And by this means they condemn themselves that have spoken so much against the Separatists, calling them Brownists, Schismaticks, and the like; and now take up the cause (in the name) that in them they so condemned. Will they turn Schismaticks that have spoken against Schismaticks so much?
Sect. 4. 3. By this means also they exceedingly wrong the Lord Jesus Christ, by seeking to rob him of his inheritance: by telling him that his Churches are none of his Churches, and his Ministers are none of his Ministers, and his Ordinances are not his Ordinances indeed. Let them first prove that Christ hath renounced these Ministers, or unchurched or denied these Churches, or given them a bill of divorce: and then let them speak their pleasure. But till then they were best take heed what they do, lest they have not the thanks from Christ which they expect.
Sect. 5. 4. They go against the plain commands of Christ, and examples of his servants: Christ himself bid concerning such as cast out Devils in his name, but followed him not [Forbid him not; for there is no man that shall do a Miracle in my name that can lightly speak evil of me: for he that is not against us is on our part, Mark 9.37, 38, 39. He liked not their humour that would have the substance of so good a work forbidden, for want of a due circumstance, mode, or accident. He commandeth us to Pray the Lord of the Harvest to send Labourers into his Harvest, because the Harvest is great, and the Labourers are few: And these men would have multitudes of Labourers thrust out, in the Necessity of the Churches. Paul rejoyced that Christ was Preached, even by them that did it in strife and envy, thinking to add affliction to his bonds. But these men would silence them that preach in sincere compassion of mens souls. Moses would not forbid Edlad and Medad prophecying, but wisht that all the Lords people were Prophets. While men do good and not harm, or more good then harm in the Church, I should see very good grounds, yea and Necessity for it, before I should silence them, or be guilty of silencing them.
Sect. 6. 5. They manifest a great deal of selfishness and pride, that dare thus consent to the injury of Christ, and the Church and souls of men, because they may not bear that Rule which is according to their principles and spirits. Self-denial would do much to cure this.
Sect. 7. 6. And yet they do as self-seekers commonly do, even seek after misery and destruction to themselves. While they look (its like) at the honour, and forget the work, they plead for such a load and burden, as is enough to break the backs of many, even for the doing of a work that is so far beyond their strength, that its a meer impossiblity: How can one man do the works which Scripture layeth on a Bishop, for a hundred or two hundred Churches? and for thousands that he never sees or hears of?
Sect. 8. 7. And above all, I admire how the heart of a considerate Christian, can be guilty of so great cruelty to the souls of men, as these men would be, if they had their will, in the practice of their principles? What if all the Churches that have no Prelates were unchurched? the Ministers cast out as no true Ministers, or the people all prevailed with to forsake them, what would be done for the thousands of the poor ignorant careless souls that are among us? when all that all of us can do is too little, what would be done if so many and such were laid aside? How many thousands were like to be damned, for want of the means, that according to the ordinary way of God, might have procured their conversion and Salvation?
Sect. 9. If they say, that others as good as they should possess the places: I answer, they speak not to men of another world, but to their neighbours, that well know that there are few to be had of tolerable worth to possess one place of very many, if all that they oppose were cast out or forsaken. Do we not know who and what men they are that you have to supply the room with?
Sect. 10. If they say that more obedient men would soon spring up, or many of these would change their minds, if they were forced to it; I answer, 1. So many would be unchanged as would be a greater loss to the Church (if it were deprived of them) then ever Prelacy was like to repair. 2. And what should become of poor souls the while your young ones are a training up? 3. And in all ages after, the Church must lose all those that should dissent from your opinion.
Sect. 11. If you say that, It is not your desire to silence all these Preachers that you disown: I answer, How can that stand with your doctrine or your practice? Your Doctrine is, that they are Lay-men, and no true Ministers, nor to be heard and submitted to as Ministers, nor Sacraments to be received from them. And would you not have them then cast out? 2. Your practice is to disswade the people (especially the Gentry that are neer you) to separate and disown them accordingly; and it is done in many places. And would you not cast them out, whom you would have forsaken?
Sect. 12. If you say, It is your desire that they should forsake their error and obey you, and so be continued and not cast out: I answer, 1. But that is not in your power to accomplish, nor have you reason to expect it. They are willing to know the mind of God as well as you, and perhaps search as diligently, and pray as hard as you; and yet they think that its you that are in the wrong; you see that for many years the Reformed Churches have continued in this mind: And it appears that if they will not turn to your opinion, you would have them all cast out or forsaken. Christ shall have no servants, nor the Church any Pastors that will not be in this of your Opinion.
Sect. 13. 8. Hereby also you would run into the guilt of a more grievous persecution, when you have read so much in Scripture against persecutors, and when you have heard of and seen the judgements of God let out upon them. It is an easie matter for any Persecutor to call him that he would cast out, a Schismatick, or Heretick, but it is not so easie to answer him that hath said, He that offendeth one of these little ones, it were better for him, &c. God will not take up with fair pretences or false accusations against his servants, to justifie your persecution.
Sect. 14. 9. Yea you would involve the people of the Land, and of other Nations, in the guilt of your persecution; drawing them to joyn with you, in casting out the faithful labourers from the Vineyard of the Lord. This is the good you would do the people, to involve their Souls into so deplorable a state of guilt.
Sect. 15. If you say, It is you that are persecuted, as I read some of you do: I answer. 1. If it be so, you are the more unexcusable before God and man, that even under your persecution, will cherish, defend and propagate such a doctrine of persecution, as strikes at no less then the necks of all the Reformed Ministers, and Churches that are not Prelatical, at one blow. 2. For my part, I have oft protested against any that shall hinder an able Godly Minister from the service of Christ and the Church, if he be but one that is likely to do more good then harm. But I never took it to be persecution to cast out Drunkards, scandalous, negligent, insufficient men, where better may be had to supply the place: no more then it is persecution to suppress an abusive Alehouse, or restrain a thief from making thievery his trade. 3. The present Governors do profess their readiness to approve and encourage in the Ministry any Godly, able, diligent m…n that will but live peaceably towards the Commonwealth. And I am acquainted with none (as far as I remember) of this quality, that have not liberty to preach and exercise the Ministerial Office. 4. But if you think you are persecuted, because you may not Rule your Brethren, and persecute others, and take upon you the sole Government of all the Churches in a County, or more, we had rather bear your accusations, then poor souls should bear the pains of Hell, by your neglect and persecution: if you are persecuted when your hands are held from striking; what are your Brethren, that cannot by your good will have leave laboriously to serve God in a low estate, as the servants of all, and the Lords of none?
Sect. 16. 10 By this means also you shew your selves impenitent in regard of all the former persecutions that some of you and your predecessors have been guilty of. Abundance of most Learned Godly men have been silenced, suspended, and some of them persecuted to banishment, and some to death. The world hath had too few such men for exemplary abilities, diligence and holiness, as Hildersham, Bradshaw, Bay…, Nicols, Brightman, Dod, Ball, Paget, Hering, Langley, Parker, Sandford, Cartwright, Bates, Ames, Rogers, and abundance more, that some suffered unto death, and some were silenced, some imprisoned, &c. for not conforming to the Ceremonies: besides Eliot, Hooker, Cotton, Norton, Cobbet, Davenant, Parker, Noyes, and all the rest that were driven to New England; and besides Ward and all that were driven into Holland: and besides the thousands of private Christians that were driven away with them: And besides all the later more extensive persecution of such as were called Conformable Puritans, for not reading the Book for dauncing on the Lords day, and for not ceasing to preach Lectures, or on the Evening of the Lords day, and such like: All this I call to your mind, as the sin that should be lamented, and heavily lamented, and not be owned, and drawn or continued on your own heads by impenitencie; and how do you repent, that would do the like, and take your selves to be persecuted, if your hands are tyed that you may not do it? For my own part, I must profess, I had rather be a Gally-slave, or Chimney-sweeper, yea or the basest vermine, than be a Bishop with all this guilt upon my soul, (to continue,) how light soever many make of it, and how impenitently soever they justifie themselves.
Sect. 17. 11. Yea more, after all the warnings you have had, in the waies and ends of your predecessors, it seems that you would yet incomparably outstrip the most of them in persecution, if you had your way. For few of them did attempt, or make any motion, for degrading or denying most of the Protestant Ministers in Europe, or such a number as in England and Scotland are not Ordained by Prelates, and to unchurch all their Churches. This is far higher then these before you.
Sect. 18. 12. And take heed lest continuing in such a sin, after both prohibitions and judgements, you should be found fighters against God. If those that despise the Ministers of Christ, despise Christ himself, what shall we think of them that do it themselves, and teach men so to do, and have pleasure in them that do it? Its fearful to draw near that forlorn Condition of the Jews, 1 Thes. 2.15, 16. [— and have persecuted us: and they please not God, and are contrary to all men; forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.]
Sect. 19. 13. It is apparent that your doctrine and practice tendeth to let in the old ejected rabble of drunken, ignorant, ungodly persons into the Ministrie. (And what can be more odious to the most Holy God!) For if once you cast out all those that have not Prelatical Ordination, or all that are against it, (especially after a former Ordination,) you must take in such as these, and with Ieroboam, make Priests of the vilest of the people, or else the places must be vacant: for we know that there are not able godly men to be had of your mind to supply the vacant places.
Sect. 20. 14. Your doctrine doth tend to harden malignant wicked men in their enmitie against a faithful Ministrie: and we see this unhappy success of it by experience. Our doctrine is so much against the inclination and interest of the flesh, and men are by corrupted nature at such an enmity to God, and all that is truly Spiritual and Holy, that we have as many enemies as hearers, till Grace do either restrain or change them. But when they have such an irritation and encouragement as this, and that from men that would be reputed as Godly as the best; then no wonder if they are hardened in their malignity. When we would instruct them and mind them of their everlasting state, and help to prepare them for their latter end; they are told by Learned men, that we are no Ministers but Lay-men and Schismaticks, and that it is their sin to own us, or receive the Ordinances of Christ from us as Ministers: and so the poor people turn their backs on us, and on the Assemblies and Ordinances of God; and being taught by wise and learned men to disown us and despise us, they follow their drunkenness, and worldliness, and ungodlyness with greater security, and with less remorse: for now they have a defensative against the galling doctrine of those precise Preachers, that would not let them alone in their sin: they were wont to be disturbed at least by Sermons, and sometime they purposed to return, and were in the way of Grace, and in some hope: but now they are taught by Learned Godly Divines to keep out of hearing, they can go on and sin in peace.
Sect. 21. 15. By this means also you rob God of his publike worship: People are taught to turn their backs on it: you teach them that it is better that God have no publike Ministerial worship at all, in Prayer, Praises, Sacraments, &c. then that he should have it from any but Prelatical Ministers! O sacred doctrine! And if you had your wills for the silencing or ejecting of all that are not Ordained by Prelates, how many hundred Church-doors must be shut up in the Christian world, or worse!
Sect. 22. 16. By this means all Impiety would be cherished and let loose. When once the mouths of Ministers were stopped, the mouth of the swearer, and curser, and railer, and scorner at Godliness would be open: and so would be the mouth of the drunkard and glutton. If all that can be done, be so much too little, as experience tells us, what a case would the Nations be in, and how would iniquity abound, if Ministers were cast out?
Sect. 23. 17. Yea it might endanger the Churches, by the introduction of Infidelity or Heathenism it self. For nothing is more natural as it were, to corrupted man: and if once the Ministry be taken down, and they have none, or those that are next to none, Infidelity and Atheism will soon spring up: And it will be a more dangerous sort of Infidelity, then is among many of the open Infidels, because it would be palliated with the name of Christianity, and leave men further from conviction, then some that never heard of Christ.
Sect. 24. 18. And it is a temptation to Infidelity and Contempt of the Church and Ministrie, when men shall …ee that one party of Christians doth thus unchurch another. They will think that they may boldly say that of us, which we say of the another; one party unchurcheth all the Papists: these that we are now speaking to, do unchurch all the Protestant Churches that are not Prelatical. The Papists unchurch all but themselves, and so among them, they leave Christ but a very small part of his inheritance.
Sect. 25. 19. Yea I fear that by Consequence (and too near and pla…n a Consequence) they dissolve the Catholike Church it self. And if it be so, let them judge whether their doctrine subvert not Christianitie? I use no violence for the inference. If want of Prelatical Ordination do Null the Protestant Ministrie and Churches, then it must needs follow that far greater defects (and more against the vitals of the Church) will do as much to unchurch the Romanists, the Greeks, Armenians, Syrians, Ethiopians, Egyptians, &c. But alas, how easie is it to prove that all these have far greater defects then the Presbyterian Protestant Churches! and so the whole must fall together.
Sect. 26. 20. By all these means they joyn with the Quakers, and Seekers, and Drunkards in opposing the same Ministrie that they oppose. You are no true Ministers of Iesus Christ, say the Quakers, Seekers, and other Sects; so also say these that now we are speaking of: and if they preach their doctrine, and side with them against the servants of Christ, let them be afraid lest they partake of their Spirit and Reward.
Sect. 27. 21. Their doctrine and practice tendeth to grieve the hearts of the most experienced gracious souls. Should all the Ministers be cast out that are not Prelatical, and the places supplyed, as they m…st be in their stead, with such as can be had, O what a day would it be to honest humble souls, that were wont to delight themselves in the publike worship of God, and to find instruction, and admonition, and consolation sutable to their necessities! If now they should have all turned to what the Doctrine of these men portends, their souls would be as in a Wilderness, and famine would consume them, and they would lament as David in his banishment, and the Jews in their captivity, to think of the daies that once they saw.
Sect. 28. 22. And doth it not imply a great deal of unholiness and enmitie to Reformation, when men dare thus boldly unchurch the most of the Reformed Churches, and pass such desperate nullifying censures on the most holy, able, painful Ministers of the Gospel? O how many of them are studying, and watching and praying for their people day and night, and teaching them publickly and from house to house, and that sometimes with tears, willing to spend and be spent fo their Salvation, not seeking theirs but them; and when they have done all, they are reproached as no Ministers of Christ, and the people taught to disown them and forsake them. Is this a sign of a son of God, that is tender of his honour and interest? or of a Holy Gracious soul?
Sect. 29. 23. At least by this means the hands of Ministers are weakned in their work, and their difficulties increased, and their hearts grieved, because of their peoples misery. O if they could have but a free unprejudiced hearing with poor sinners some good might be done! But they will not hear us, nor come neer us, or speak to us: Especially when they are taught to forsake us by such men. I would not be the man that should thus add burden and grief to the faithful Ministers of Christ, upon such an account, for all the Bishopricks on earth.
Sect. 30. 24 They also distract the minds of Christians, when they hear men thus degrading and unchurching one another; so that weak persons are perplexed, and know not what to think nor what Church or Religion to be of: yea it is well if many be not tempted hereby to be of no Religion at all: when they hear them condemning one another.
Sect. 31. 25. These shew too much formality and Ceremoniousness, when they so much prefer their own opinon, about a circumstance, Ceremony or Mode, before the very being of the Churches and Ministry, and the substance of worship it self, and the Salvation of men souls: As if it were better for Churches to be no Churches, then not Prelatical Churches: or for souls to be condemned, then to be saved by men that are not Prelatical. I speak not these things to exasperate them (though I can expect no better:) but in the grief of my soul for the sad condition that they would bring men into.
Sect. 32. 26. They lay a very dangerous snare, to draw Ministers to be guilty of casting off the work of God. Flesh and blood would be glad of a fair pretence for so much liberty and ease. O how fain would it be unyoakt, and leave this labourious, displeasing kind of life! And when such as these shall perswade them that they are no Ministers, they may do much to gratifie the flesh. For some will say, I am at a loss, between both wayes; I cannot see the lawfulness of Prelacy: and yet they speak so confidently of the nullity of all other callings, that I will forbear till I am better resolved Another will say, I find my self to be no Minister, and therefore free from the Obligation to Ministerial Offices; and I will take heed how I come under that yoak again, till I have fuller resolution. Another will scruple being twice Ordained, and so will think it safer to surcease. At least they tempt men to such resolutions, that would discharge them from so hard a work.
Sect. 33. 27. By this means also they make the breaches that are among us to be uncurable, and proclaim themselves utterly unreconcileable to the most of the Protestant Churches. For if they will have no reconciliation or communion with them, till they shall confess themselves no Churches, and cast off all their Ministers, they may as well say flatly, they will have none at all. For no reasonable man can imagine or expect that ever the Churches should yield to these terms. When they are declared no Ministers or Churches, you cannot then have Communion with them as Ministers or Churches.
Sect. 34. 28. And it is easie to see how much they befriend and encourage the Papists in all this. Is it not enough that you have vindicated the Pope from being the Antichrist, but you must also openly proclaim that Rome is a true Church, their Priests true Priests, their Ordinances and Administrations Valid, but all the Protestant Churches that are not Prelatical are indeed no Churches, their Ministers no Ministers, &c. Who would not then be a Papist rather then a member of such a Protestant Church? How can you more plainly invite men to turn Papists, unless you would do it expresly and with open face? Or how could you gratifie Papists more?
Sect. 35. 29. And truly if all these evils were accompl…shed, the Ministers forsaken, iniquity let loose, the Ordinances prophaned by unworthy men, &c. we could expect nothing but that the judgements of God should be poured out upon us for our Apostacy: and that temporal plagues involuntary should accompany the spiritual plagues that we have chosen! and that God should even forsake our land, and make us a by word and an hissing to the Nations: and that his judgements should write as upon our doors, This is the people that wilfully cast out the Ministers and mercies of the Lord.
Sect. 36. 30. And if all this were but accomplished, in the Conclusion I may be bold to ask, what would the Devil himself have more, except our damnation it self? If he were to plead his own cause, and to speak for himself, would he not say the very same as these Learned, Reverend Disputers do? would he not say to all our graceless people, Hear n…t these Ministers: they are no true Ministers: Ioyn not in Communion with their Churches, they are no true Churches? I doubt not but he would say many of the same words, if he had leave to speak. And should not a man of any fear be afraid, and a man of any piety be unwilling to plead the very cause of Satan, and say as he would have them say, by accusing so many famous Churches and Ministers, as being none indeed, and drawing the people so to censure them and forsake them; This is no work for a Minister of Christ.
Sect. 37. Besides what is here said, I desire those whom it doth concern, that are afraid of plunging themselves into the depth of guilt and horror, that they will impartially read over my first sheet for the Ministry, which further shews the aggravations of their sin that are now the opposers and reproachers of them. Consider them, and take heed.
Sect. 38. But again I desire these Brethren to believe, that as it is none of the Prelatical Divines that I here speak of▪ but those that thus nullifie our Church & Ministry, while they own the Ministry and Church of Rome; so it is none of my desire to provoke even these, or injure them in the least degree: But I could not in this sad condition of the Church, but propound these hainous evils to their consideration, to provoke them to try, and to take heed lest they should incur so great a load of guilt, while they think they are pleading for Order in the Church. How can there be any charity to the Church, or to our brethren in us, if we can see them in such a gulf of sin as this, and yet say nothing to them, for fear of provoking them to displeasure?
Sect. 39. And I think it necessary that all young men that are cast by their arguings into temptations of falling with them into the same transgressions, should have the case laid open to them, that they may see their danger; and not by the accusations of Schism be led into far greater real Schism, with so many other sins as these.
Sect. 40. Yet is it not my intent to justifie any disorders or miscarriages that any have been guilty of in opposition to the Prelacie. And if they can prove that I have been guilty of any such thing my self, I shall accept of their reproof, and condemn my sin as soon as I can discern it. Only I must crave that the usual way of presumption, affirmation, or bare names of crimes be not supposed sufficient for Conviction, without proof, and before the cause is heard. And also I do profess that for all that I have here said against the English Prelacy, and though I earnestly desire it may never be restored, yet were I to live under it again, I would live peaceably and submissively, being obedient, and perswading others to obedience, in all things lawfull.